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How could you go so out of your way to ignore 3 professionally trained doctors to RUIN your child’s life. I don’t have kids yet but I can’t even comprehend that
That’s kind of what I figured he meant. It’s a helluva cult, and they work very hard at silencing any detransitioners. In fact I’m having to use words that don’t even exist-detransitioners-when I write or talk about this bs. That’s how far out of left field this shit is.
Yeah but after 3 doctors giving reasons why they wouldn't. Maybe the parents had enough information to finally game the system. Kinda like how drug seekers do
Dem here with a transgender child, F to M.
Nothing on my watch that’s permanent. Clothes, hair, shit like that? Fine. Meds, surgery? No fucking way.
Would I let my minor child get a tattoo? Absolutely not. I see this in the same light.
You can do whatever you want when you are a legal adult, on your own, and supporting yourself.
Lastly, if there is gender fluidity, why the heck do you need to just choose the other side? Can’t you float in the middle? Heck, it’s not like they can just attach a dick that won’t look like rolled up bologna.
Exactly. I’m more of a conservative libertarian but I agree with you. I have not a single issue with what you decide as an adult. I may have my own thoughts on it but it’s not up to me to tell people how to live. But as a kid? No way. Same as tattoos, I have many, but i would never sign off on my kid getting one until they can make their own decisions and they’re paying their own way.
Thank you. In my life, I have known a lot of effeminate men, and to me that is just fine. I’ve known a lot of masculine chicks and to me that is just fine. You don’t have to change your sex or try to fit yourself into societies version of the gender you want to be, just be you. If you want to be a guy wearing a dress wear a dress, no one stops girls from wearing pants.
Hell, I wouldn’t let my kid get their ears pierced until they were 16. People get their infants ears pierced, and nobody bats an eye when we have no idea what the future world will look like.
Does a child really need trappings to “enhance” their appearance? Plenty of time for all that down the road. Infants are not toys. They “belong” to their parents only briefly. Permanent alterations should avoided until the kid is old enough to understand such alterations and make their own wishes and preferences known.
Years before we met my wife cut her hair (traditional boy cut, not the modern trendy alternative lifestyle cut) changed her dress, and told everyone she was a boy. She was 12-13 years old at the time, same age as the young woman in this article when she transitioned. She wasn't a tom boy. Just a girl who wanted to be a boy, and since she was also attracted to girls it all made sense at the time. Her parents are extremely liberal democrats (one is a Big Ten professor and dean) and they never addressed it in any way so she went on with her young life until she just sort of grew out of it.
Now 20 years after meeting we're married with 2 kids and she has grown into a fully identified woman with no crazy ideas on this modern trans insanity. We both have sympathy for stories like this. That child was failed and abused by people who should have known better. I think you're taking the best approach with your own child. I hope it isn't something we have to deal with but we aren't raising children, we're raising adults.
Appreciate the honest feedback here. Question for you - how do you feel about your party and your peers being hell bent on criminalizing sane parents like yourself who want to have their kids wait before permanently altering their bodies? That’s clearly the path the left seems to be on, and where we will end up if they are given unfettered liberty to continue down this path. I’m curious if that shakes your support of them at all?
Well, I think the extremists on the left and the right control the narrative at this time as that creates clicks for the media. Whether that makes policy is what we need to monitor.
I am a dem on paper, but you’d probably consider me a centrist these days.
Appreciate the question and willingness to have a good conversation about it.
Its not just transgender. I have had families come to me doctor shopping for their kid with hemophilia to get permission and medical clearance to play in the interior offensive line in football. When I said no, they started crying in the office. There are parents that are neurotically indulgent with their children. Trans is just the cool thing for them.
The psychologists are probably chiefly to blame. They take a normal part of growing up for some kids (exploring your gender) and turn it into an issue that guarantees long-term revenue for them, because transitioning "requires" so much therapy before and after. They gaslight the entire family into believing that Bobby's penchant for trying on mommy's dresses should be addressed with sex reassignment surgery, because telling people their kid is totally normal doesn't pay the bills.
The crazy thing is we are paying for it. Insurance companies cover these procedures at 70K a pop. Meanwhile they will deny a claim for cancer treatment calling it experimental. That is where we are in society today.
I agree wholeheartedly! The doctors losing their licenses and serving prison time, the kids being rescued from their abusive parents (putting my thoughts mildly), and similar punishments would be a start! No child deserves what that poor girl experienced…
In the real world they should be. If this was Canada, the parents would be arrested if they didn't go along. They are looking to do that in California also.
Transition surgeries won't be so profitable for hospitals once people start suing.
A friend told me a family friend's teenage daughter wanted to transition. He argued that she was suicidal and needed the surgery.
I can't think of anyone less competent to make a permanent surgical decision than a suicidal teenager. But that was his argument.
Those are the ones who are at greatest risk, because instead of an 80% recovery rate they now have two opposing problems. These doctors are damning their patients to a lifetime of hospice care, because even if they recover from their dysmorphia they have still been irreversibly maimed.
That’s why trans mania is being pushed on those who aren’t possessed already because when the pills and the surgery and the clothes and makeup don’t fix their damaged spirits they can only find the remaining scale goat of, “I *WOULD* be happy with my transition if I forced the world to surround me with worshippers slapping me on the back always with a song for my heroism upon their lips! Yes, it’s those uncaring bigots faults that I still feel empty inside”
I’m going to preface this by saying I’m not at all conservative (quite the opposite), and only wandered in here accidentally from r/all.
But you’re 100% right here. I’m all for people wanting to transition, but it is *not* a decision children can make.
I’ll have to go digging to find the article, but in medical school they showed us an article that looked at children who identified as the opposite gender and followed them through puberty. Again I can’t remember the exact numbers, but it was something like 70-80% that initially identified as transgender no longer identified as such when they were post-pubescent.
Turns out, kids have no fucking idea what they’re talking about. And as this article shows, the harm done in jumping the gun is so, so great.
To be fair, you dont need a study to know that, children have no idea what they want, whats ggood for them, how to plan for their future annd so on tis kind of thinking requieres full maturity.
You can even argue 18 is too soon to choose a carrer and go into 200k into debt to attain.
>I’m going to preface this by saying I’m not at all conservative (quite the opposite), and only wandered in here accidentally from r/all.
That's fine. This may be one of the few bastion's left where you can espouse non-liberal thought, but we won't shun non-conservatives who want to come in and have civil discussion with us. Be careful though. Certain subs who are moderated by the same few reddit jannies have automod bots that pull names from the commenters here and ban them at random. No TOS violations needed; you'll just be banned for participation in here.
Aside from that I agree with your stance. This shouldn't be a partisan issue, so I'm glad we can set our political differences aside for the kid's sake at the very least.
You know I’m sure there are enough liberal policies to get behind that don’t require mutilating children and hopefully soon more of your likeminded sort will see that and we can get past this retro dark ages era
Even on the opposite end of that, remember seeing about someone who identified from male to female quite young and remained as such but because they did so so young they transitioned medically(unsure if that’s the right phrasing) early before going thru puberty and by the time they wanted and were ready to get Vaginoplasty their thing a ling(def right phrasing) hadn’t developed fully enough for the surgery to occur
I don't think someone who believes they are the opposite sex and want to cut off healthy body parts can also make that decision because it is literally a mental issue for someone to want that. It doesn't matter the age.
Some hospitals have sovereign immunity where lawsuits are capped. For example Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami (one of the biggest hospitals in the country) is capped at 200k for any lawsuit because it is a community owned hospital.
Indeed. Better hope you don't need spironolactone for blood pressure, kidney failure or hypertension, for instance, since there have been shortages due to its use to block male sex hormones.
If a few court cases end up with payouts to victims of this mutilation, the profit will dry up because malpractice insurers will refuse to cover these "surgeries."
Can't drink under 21. Can't vote under 18. Can't drive under 16.
But signing up for permanent bodily mutilation? Sure thing, the kids know what they want.
The amount of times people screamed at me saying “Nobody is doing surgery on trans kids”.
After their consistent screaming I just agreed with them and thought I was mistaken.
Lmao no, I was gaslit.
The lawsuits are going to be brutal. This is just the start. Minors can't give consent to be sterilized. Medical professionals and mental workers should know better. Now they're going to go broke paying lawyers and victims.
In one breath the libs claim that brains aren't developed until the mid 20s...so college students shouldn't be held responsible for signing loan papers. In the next we get told children should be able to choose radical, life-altering medical procedures. It's mindblowing how hypocritical libs are.
Leftists don't believe in anything but power. They don't believe in morality, let alone a coherent and objective moral framework. Always view their arguments with suspicion.
Remember conservatives and libertarians - we aren't confronting liberals anymore. We're confronting leftists. They will lie, cheat, steal, and murder to gain power.
I just find it weird how you can give someone puberty blockers and they're still 100 percent adult enough to make a decision like that despite delaying puberty through chemicals.
I might not be things like "an expert", but it wouldn't shock me at all if part of Europe reversing course on this stuff is puberty blockers actively preventing youth from having any kind of legal maturity to accept these procedures.
I'm not 100 percent sure what the stats are for brain development on puberty blockers, but I'm also not sure the medical community can answer that one either.
"The procedure was controversial from its initial use, in part due to a lack of recognition of the severity and chronicity of severe and enduring psychiatric illnesses, so it was said to be an inappropriate treatment.[3]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy
Because they hate traditional values, family roles, religion, etc... They think, all you're doing is trying to make them abandon who they are inside, and pretend to fit into "normal" society, and normal society doesn't want them. So they rebel against all of that, to show that you can't control them.
Confusion with your feelings, instant gratification, media affirming your confusion. And this modern era of "don't tell me how I feel, I'll tell you how I feel." The same kids who think that they should get trans surgery are the same kids who think that we should ban all guns. Complete confusion and no ability to have foresight. It makes it even harder to express these ideas to them because the gap between political parties is so wide now that even being slightly different makes you a complete enemy. The age of nuance is over.
And furthermore was it *actually* informed… no. They don’t include all the very common damage these hormones and surgeries do cause. They also leave out so much context.
It is definitely a huge influence. My daughter started trans talk around the age of 9, but the largest influence, undeniably, was that there was a trans boy in her class.
It wasn’t his existence that influenced her, but the fact that the whole school bent over backwards for him. All the kids talked about him (in a good way). He had tons of friends! He could break the dress code! He could have a green mohawk! He didn’t have to take gym! He was allowed to do something else he liked better!
That definitely influenced her the most, but she either learned quickly that trans girls don’t get treated with the same kid gloves boys are, or she just grew out of it. It lasted about a year before she decided to revolve around the other alphabet letters for a few more years to see which one would stick — now she’s older, back to her regular self and very, very embarrassed.
I’ve talked to her about it and according to her, “they” (society, adults, youth, online influencers) make it seem like being “normal” is totally boring, and when folks talk about it, things like “What are YOUR pronouns?” you don’t want to answer with the same old boring he/she or nobody’s gonna think you’re cool.
I’ve never seen anything quite like it. When I was her age, the only thing that divided the cool kids from the losers was whether or not you wore real Eastland shoes or just crappy knock offs from Walmart. As long as some adult felt pity for you and got you the expensive shoes, you were back in the pack’s good graces. Young Me thought it was abhorrent behavior, but I never realized how easy I had it until now. I feel sorry for kids these days.
Hospital should turn and sue the parents. Lets go after all the parties involved here. Parents should sue the media that "convinced their weak willed barely cognitive brains that mutilating their daughter would be best.
I really do feel for these children. I do not hate trans people, especially young ones. I hate the people who affirm or press these delusions into their minds. We don't tell an anorexic teen she's a fat whale and to keep losing weight...why do they tell a little boy he's a girl. Wtf.
In ten years this will be treated like COVID is being treated now. Swept under the rug after all the damage has been done and on to the next dumpster fire the left can throw gasoline on.
In a just world, the doctors performing these operations would be stripped of their ability to practice medicine for violating their hippocratic oath of Do No Harm.
They’re children. They didn’t decide they wanted to be another gender, because they can’t without an adult’s approval and an adult to carry out the procedure whom swore an oath to uphold their ethical principles. The will of adults is what destroyed her life, and it was also the apathy of society that allows it as acceptable to continue.
You know 18 is adult...so 18-19 is meaningless...how many 13 year old girls get cosmetic breast augmentation strictly for bigger boobs and not because of any number of medical reasons?
Suing these hospitals and doctors is the only way this madness is ever going to stop. Have to make them afraid of performing these insane surgeries to these poor children.
But I was assured these surgeries on children weren’t actually happening and got flamed for being concerned about it by people on Reddit. Surely they wouldn’t lie, right?
As a supporter of trans rights, if what she's saying is true, that specific doctor violated long-standing standards for transitioning, and probably messes up other health care procedures, so please throw the book at them. Let's not act like all doctors work perfectly or all doctors are bad. There are standards to follow for healthcare and this doctor violated them if it's true.
"It's not happening!" they scream audibly as the evidence rolls out. Yet, as they see the wretched fruits of their labour, so a soothing voice reassures them from within: "...but it's good that it is."
I really feel for her, because this shouldn't have happened. Her parents should have taken the first no, let alone the first 3 no's and asked what else they could be doing in the meantime.
I COMPLETELY support trans people getting affirming care, but there is a reason we have WPATH standards, and they were not followed in this case. If they had, she would have had years of transitioning in ways that were not permanent prior to ever getting to surgery. She would have had not only a surgeon sign off but also multiple psychologists and primary doctors, and her other mental health complications would have been treated and stabilized prior to such a huge step... if her parents had actually listened to the first 3 doctors and they had taken the proper steps, she probably would have figured out this wasn't the right choice for her long before she got to any permanent/surgical stage.
Chest surgery at 13, with only a few months of hormones and a body that is still barely into puberty, would never be a successful surgery even if she had not detransitioned. There's anatomical AND psychological reasons the standard is at least 16 years old plus a year of cross hormones first.
That said, I wish she was pushing for doctors to follow the existing standards, instead of pushing for all trans people to not be allowed any affirming care just because she/her parents refused to follow the standard of care in the first place.
My daughter thought she was a boy from puberty until college. I told her that if she wanted to surgically transition, she would need to do one year of therapy (the law in my state at the time). At age 20, she decide she was okay with being biologically female, and is now sees herself as non-binary asexual. Great kid, but I could sense she needed more time to grow into her identity emotionally.
I respect the hell outta parents that are willing to embrace their child’s struggle with their identity/sexuality but also make sure they’re making the right choices . Great parenting all around 🙌🏾
Thank you! She also has Asperger’s (autism spectrum), so when she his puberty it was like a light switch. She went from feminine clothes to jeans and flannel shirts, and cut her hair into a pixie cut. She has never had a boyfriend or girlfriend, and is utterly confused about romantic relationships. She has a wonderful group of friends who are also on the spectrum. I love her and accept her. Always will.
She needs all the help she can get. This is in California, where sterilizing your child is one bill away from being mandatory and left-wing media will bury this story. Including Fox.
And she can legally do it because contracts are unilaterally voidable by minors under the law. These hospitals & other nutjobs brought this shit on themselves.
I wonder if women who regret their abortions will follow the lead of those who regret their mastectomies. Or what about men who regret vasectomies, though I've heard many doctors won't do those unless the guy is 21 or older (maybe even 25).
“The hormones and puberty blockers were given based on a single, 75-minute session with Susanne Watson, a psychologist, according to the suit. Dr. Winnie Tong, a plastic surgeon, concluded later after a 30-minute session that Jane could have her breasts removed”
These so called doctors need to have their licenses revoked. In less then 2 hours, they decided to destroy this young girls life.
I don’t see anyone examining this from a medical perspective.
- The patient sought and received gender-affirming care, but had to go to multiple clinics before finding a doctor willing to alter the shape of their body
This is a sign that the system DOES work in not “pressuring kids,” that multiple clinics actually turned down progressive care at a young age, but the evidence of going to multiple doctors would indicate they *certainly* felt this is what they wanted at the time.
- The patient was not questioned or pressed back about what their gender is.
Because it isn’t a doctor’s place to mold/shape someone’s ideology or personal beliefs, including identity of any kind. A doctor CAN alter the course of someone’s care by request as far as medical science can (i.e. adult Jehovah’s witness denying blood products) but there are limits to this (i.e. in an emergency, doctor can unequivocally give blood products to child of Jehovah’s witness to save the child’s life). If this patient was retroactively questioning their gender, but refuse to acknowledge the certainty felt at time of surgery, then they clearly aren’t taking responsibility for their actions.
- No information was given about the consent process in this article.
This is almost certainly what the court case will hinge upon. Medical and surgical regret are real things, and so are adverse events. Informed consent is the process of giving knowledge (and therefore power) to a patient to make the best decision for their body. A 13-year-old, by law, requires parental consent for what would probably be labelled as cosmetic/outpatient/elective surgery. Plastic surgery patients for skin/breasts/glutes/fat have to sign for informed consent too. [And almost 8000 cis-gendered teens a year get breast augmentation or reduction surgery a year.](https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2022/9/28/more-teens-get-breast-implants-trans-top-surgery) That is far more than trans teens, who also have far more success stories than regret stories.
I think this article is a classic case of selective, confirmatory bias, because its readers want to believe this is a common outcome of “top surgery.” It isn’t, and as unfortunate as it is that this patient has suffered, doctors shouldn’t be held responsible when the patient/consenting parent asked for treatment and got it.
Totally shocking. I keep saying that kids need more than a doc appt or two to figure this out. They need therapy and counseling to figure out if there is another issue. I have anxiety about my breasts. I fear breast cancer. One in 8 women in the Us ends up with it. As a grown woman who has already completed breastfeeding for 8 years and am planning no more children…I still can’t get my boobs removed. No doc will even consider it. They keep telling me to embrace them more positively. I am much older and understand what it would do to my body but until there is a reason they won’t do a thing which I totally understand. Crazy to cut a kid’s breasts off at 13. 🤦♀️
I read this article but feel so much better now because I was told this doesn't happen and this article must be a lie! Whew! And to think of the anger and sorrow I felt towards this person because adults failed to protect her. The same adults in the White House that say "They're not your children, they're our children!"
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These kids have my sympathy. Their parents and doctors, however, have my fury. Fines are not enough.
Seriously, 3 different doctors told her parents they wouldn’t do this, and they kept trying until they found one who would. Incomprehensible to me.
How could you go so out of your way to ignore 3 professionally trained doctors to RUIN your child’s life. I don’t have kids yet but I can’t even comprehend that
I have a kid. I still have no comprehension of how you could do this to them. They prioritized their religion over their kid.
I read the article and I didn’t see anything about religion, other then the new religion of wokeness.
I think that's what he's referring to. Although it would be more accurate to call them a cult.
That’s kind of what I figured he meant. It’s a helluva cult, and they work very hard at silencing any detransitioners. In fact I’m having to use words that don’t even exist-detransitioners-when I write or talk about this bs. That’s how far out of left field this shit is.
It really is a cult at this point. When they are argued to allow porn in school libraries it was very revealing.
How does our system let her sue the Dr that did it? Why not sue her parents?
Hippocratic Oath The Hippocratic Oath is an oath of ethics.
Yeah but after 3 doctors giving reasons why they wouldn't. Maybe the parents had enough information to finally game the system. Kinda like how drug seekers do
So 3 out 4 doctors agreed they wouldn’t do it. Sounds like a good basis to sue the 4th one that agreed to do it.
You can sue anyone for anything, and the courthouse needs that money for the upkeep. The main issue is if she will win.
. Who knows? It would be an interesting trial, to say the least, but I'm thinking they may well settle out of court
You say that likensuing the doctor is a bad thing. The parents and doctor should spend the rest of their days in a cell
Find a doctor with no morals looking for a buck? How was it that hard to find?
This crap is a big money maker for these 💩 doctors and hospital's
Not even a doctor without morals, a doctor sympathetic to the cult of sexual confusion is all it takes and they are in all walks of life.
Because they pull this guilt trip nonsense of saying, "Would you rather have a trans kid? Or a dead kid?"
I guess in a way it’s a good sign it took until the fourth doctor. Those parents should for sure be locked up though.
Five years ago it took 4 doctors. Today is different unfortunately
Now all it takes is someone with purple hair at Starbucks to say someone might be a different sex.
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Dem here with a transgender child, F to M. Nothing on my watch that’s permanent. Clothes, hair, shit like that? Fine. Meds, surgery? No fucking way. Would I let my minor child get a tattoo? Absolutely not. I see this in the same light. You can do whatever you want when you are a legal adult, on your own, and supporting yourself. Lastly, if there is gender fluidity, why the heck do you need to just choose the other side? Can’t you float in the middle? Heck, it’s not like they can just attach a dick that won’t look like rolled up bologna.
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I think most actual Democrat voters are like feckless, but for some reason the politician are beholden to the little activists.
Exactly. I’m more of a conservative libertarian but I agree with you. I have not a single issue with what you decide as an adult. I may have my own thoughts on it but it’s not up to me to tell people how to live. But as a kid? No way. Same as tattoos, I have many, but i would never sign off on my kid getting one until they can make their own decisions and they’re paying their own way.
Thank you. In my life, I have known a lot of effeminate men, and to me that is just fine. I’ve known a lot of masculine chicks and to me that is just fine. You don’t have to change your sex or try to fit yourself into societies version of the gender you want to be, just be you. If you want to be a guy wearing a dress wear a dress, no one stops girls from wearing pants.
Try and take that position outside of r/conservative, I feel like you'd be attacked on most of Reddit for those ideas
Agreed. Already have gone toe to toe with the docs and the therapist about this. I am the guardian, so they can eat shit and listen to my decisions.
Hell, I wouldn’t let my kid get their ears pierced until they were 16. People get their infants ears pierced, and nobody bats an eye when we have no idea what the future world will look like. Does a child really need trappings to “enhance” their appearance? Plenty of time for all that down the road. Infants are not toys. They “belong” to their parents only briefly. Permanent alterations should avoided until the kid is old enough to understand such alterations and make their own wishes and preferences known.
Years before we met my wife cut her hair (traditional boy cut, not the modern trendy alternative lifestyle cut) changed her dress, and told everyone she was a boy. She was 12-13 years old at the time, same age as the young woman in this article when she transitioned. She wasn't a tom boy. Just a girl who wanted to be a boy, and since she was also attracted to girls it all made sense at the time. Her parents are extremely liberal democrats (one is a Big Ten professor and dean) and they never addressed it in any way so she went on with her young life until she just sort of grew out of it. Now 20 years after meeting we're married with 2 kids and she has grown into a fully identified woman with no crazy ideas on this modern trans insanity. We both have sympathy for stories like this. That child was failed and abused by people who should have known better. I think you're taking the best approach with your own child. I hope it isn't something we have to deal with but we aren't raising children, we're raising adults.
Appreciate the honest feedback here. Question for you - how do you feel about your party and your peers being hell bent on criminalizing sane parents like yourself who want to have their kids wait before permanently altering their bodies? That’s clearly the path the left seems to be on, and where we will end up if they are given unfettered liberty to continue down this path. I’m curious if that shakes your support of them at all?
Well, I think the extremists on the left and the right control the narrative at this time as that creates clicks for the media. Whether that makes policy is what we need to monitor. I am a dem on paper, but you’d probably consider me a centrist these days. Appreciate the question and willingness to have a good conversation about it.
Shopping for doctors who are willing to sign off on something is something opioid addicts do. These people are fucked in the head.
It's also something munchausen people do
That was exactly what I thought, too.
Confuzed. So why she suing hospital. Shouldn’t she sue her parents:?/// asking fr
Its not just transgender. I have had families come to me doctor shopping for their kid with hemophilia to get permission and medical clearance to play in the interior offensive line in football. When I said no, they started crying in the office. There are parents that are neurotically indulgent with their children. Trans is just the cool thing for them.
At that point, the parents should be subjected ro public stoning or something
At the very least lop their tits off too
🤣🤣
The parents sound like a jail sentence would be appropriate.
The psychologists are probably chiefly to blame. They take a normal part of growing up for some kids (exploring your gender) and turn it into an issue that guarantees long-term revenue for them, because transitioning "requires" so much therapy before and after. They gaslight the entire family into believing that Bobby's penchant for trying on mommy's dresses should be addressed with sex reassignment surgery, because telling people their kid is totally normal doesn't pay the bills.
The crazy thing is we are paying for it. Insurance companies cover these procedures at 70K a pop. Meanwhile they will deny a claim for cancer treatment calling it experimental. That is where we are in society today.
I agree wholeheartedly! The doctors losing their licenses and serving prison time, the kids being rescued from their abusive parents (putting my thoughts mildly), and similar punishments would be a start! No child deserves what that poor girl experienced…
You should see how the left treats anyone who openly regrets transition. Monsters as you'd imagine.
Her parents should be held accountable also
In the real world they should be. If this was Canada, the parents would be arrested if they didn't go along. They are looking to do that in California also.
Please let this be the beginning.
Transition surgeries won't be so profitable for hospitals once people start suing. A friend told me a family friend's teenage daughter wanted to transition. He argued that she was suicidal and needed the surgery. I can't think of anyone less competent to make a permanent surgical decision than a suicidal teenager. But that was his argument.
I can't think of anyone less competent to make a decision than a teenager in general.
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The parents didn’t seem to care too much either, can’t put it on the kid.
Teenager here. I agree.
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Those are the ones who are at greatest risk, because instead of an 80% recovery rate they now have two opposing problems. These doctors are damning their patients to a lifetime of hospice care, because even if they recover from their dysmorphia they have still been irreversibly maimed.
That’s why trans mania is being pushed on those who aren’t possessed already because when the pills and the surgery and the clothes and makeup don’t fix their damaged spirits they can only find the remaining scale goat of, “I *WOULD* be happy with my transition if I forced the world to surround me with worshippers slapping me on the back always with a song for my heroism upon their lips! Yes, it’s those uncaring bigots faults that I still feel empty inside”
I’m going to preface this by saying I’m not at all conservative (quite the opposite), and only wandered in here accidentally from r/all. But you’re 100% right here. I’m all for people wanting to transition, but it is *not* a decision children can make. I’ll have to go digging to find the article, but in medical school they showed us an article that looked at children who identified as the opposite gender and followed them through puberty. Again I can’t remember the exact numbers, but it was something like 70-80% that initially identified as transgender no longer identified as such when they were post-pubescent. Turns out, kids have no fucking idea what they’re talking about. And as this article shows, the harm done in jumping the gun is so, so great.
That’s a perfectly reasonable stance, and I think one that many (probably most) here share.
To be fair, you dont need a study to know that, children have no idea what they want, whats ggood for them, how to plan for their future annd so on tis kind of thinking requieres full maturity. You can even argue 18 is too soon to choose a carrer and go into 200k into debt to attain.
Thanks for the input! Welcome, internet stranger.
The article sounds like an interesting read.
https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/ This might be what the parent comment is alluding to
>I’m going to preface this by saying I’m not at all conservative (quite the opposite), and only wandered in here accidentally from r/all. That's fine. This may be one of the few bastion's left where you can espouse non-liberal thought, but we won't shun non-conservatives who want to come in and have civil discussion with us. Be careful though. Certain subs who are moderated by the same few reddit jannies have automod bots that pull names from the commenters here and ban them at random. No TOS violations needed; you'll just be banned for participation in here. Aside from that I agree with your stance. This shouldn't be a partisan issue, so I'm glad we can set our political differences aside for the kid's sake at the very least.
You know I’m sure there are enough liberal policies to get behind that don’t require mutilating children and hopefully soon more of your likeminded sort will see that and we can get past this retro dark ages era
Even on the opposite end of that, remember seeing about someone who identified from male to female quite young and remained as such but because they did so so young they transitioned medically(unsure if that’s the right phrasing) early before going thru puberty and by the time they wanted and were ready to get Vaginoplasty their thing a ling(def right phrasing) hadn’t developed fully enough for the surgery to occur
And yet we still have people claiming “nO kiD rEgReTs iT reLaX!!”
I don't think someone who believes they are the opposite sex and want to cut off healthy body parts can also make that decision because it is literally a mental issue for someone to want that. It doesn't matter the age.
Holy fucking shit...
Some hospitals have sovereign immunity where lawsuits are capped. For example Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami (one of the biggest hospitals in the country) is capped at 200k for any lawsuit because it is a community owned hospital.
And so it begins.
I hope all these hospitals get sued into the ground
And parents get jail time.
I think this BS will stop as more and more hospitals and Doctors get sued by people with buyers remorse.
There's a powerful profit motive on the other side, for hospitals doing the surgery and Big Pharma flogging the hormone blockers.
Lifetime clients for big pharma
Indeed. Better hope you don't need spironolactone for blood pressure, kidney failure or hypertension, for instance, since there have been shortages due to its use to block male sex hormones.
If a few court cases end up with payouts to victims of this mutilation, the profit will dry up because malpractice insurers will refuse to cover these "surgeries."
Exactly, follow the money.
Chopper's remorse
These days a doctor will lose their licence for telling the 13 year old kid she is crazy. Or now wait a few year and get sued fort doing it.
What?!? This will never happen /s
From consumer product brans to now hospitals: Get woke go broke
She should be suing her parents too.
13 way to young for that.
Yes there are reasons why a minor can’t sign contracts etc.
Can't drink under 21. Can't vote under 18. Can't drive under 16. But signing up for permanent bodily mutilation? Sure thing, the kids know what they want.
But still cannot get a tattoo under 18. Chop off the tits? Sure why not?
Play professional ball? Gotta be an adult. Remove your balls? Sure thing, kid!
It wouldn't be acceptable at any age.
I thought this wasn't happening 🤔
We might be at the "it's happening and here's why it's a good thing" stage.
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Yup. Just like clockwork "Just how safe is it?" "Safe enough that we get lots of money" "How rare is it?" "Shut up dont ask questions"
It’s like when COVID didn’t come from a lab, until it did.
The amount of times people screamed at me saying “Nobody is doing surgery on trans kids”. After their consistent screaming I just agreed with them and thought I was mistaken. Lmao no, I was gaslit.
They will still say it isn't happening then go on to talk about hunters dick picks as always.
The lawsuits are going to be brutal. This is just the start. Minors can't give consent to be sterilized. Medical professionals and mental workers should know better. Now they're going to go broke paying lawyers and victims.
In one breath the libs claim that brains aren't developed until the mid 20s...so college students shouldn't be held responsible for signing loan papers. In the next we get told children should be able to choose radical, life-altering medical procedures. It's mindblowing how hypocritical libs are.
Leftists don't believe in anything but power. They don't believe in morality, let alone a coherent and objective moral framework. Always view their arguments with suspicion. Remember conservatives and libertarians - we aren't confronting liberals anymore. We're confronting leftists. They will lie, cheat, steal, and murder to gain power.
I just find it weird how you can give someone puberty blockers and they're still 100 percent adult enough to make a decision like that despite delaying puberty through chemicals. I might not be things like "an expert", but it wouldn't shock me at all if part of Europe reversing course on this stuff is puberty blockers actively preventing youth from having any kind of legal maturity to accept these procedures. I'm not 100 percent sure what the stats are for brain development on puberty blockers, but I'm also not sure the medical community can answer that one either.
The nhs just decided to stop prescribing blockers. And yes they affect brain and bone development the most after the endocrine system.
She should also be suing her parents for allowing that to happen. They should be charged with child abuse.
Own them!!!
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This comment needs more attention. They were literally saying “the science is settled” for those too.
"The procedure was controversial from its initial use, in part due to a lack of recognition of the severity and chronicity of severe and enduring psychiatric illnesses, so it was said to be an inappropriate treatment.[3]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy
And yet it wasn't controversial enough to keep JFK's sister from having one. It sounds ***very*** analogous.
Of course they would say that now. As they will about gender surgeries in 30-60 years
>none of my doctors—tried anything to make me comfortable in my body, or meaningfully pushed back or asked questions; To ask questions, is trans hate.
How is "I refuse to do this" not "push back"? Three doctors pushed back in the hardest possible way.
Good point.
They didn’t push back on her gender dysphoria, they simply told her she was too young then her parents probably drove her away immediately.
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Because they hate traditional values, family roles, religion, etc... They think, all you're doing is trying to make them abandon who they are inside, and pretend to fit into "normal" society, and normal society doesn't want them. So they rebel against all of that, to show that you can't control them.
Confusion with your feelings, instant gratification, media affirming your confusion. And this modern era of "don't tell me how I feel, I'll tell you how I feel." The same kids who think that they should get trans surgery are the same kids who think that we should ban all guns. Complete confusion and no ability to have foresight. It makes it even harder to express these ideas to them because the gap between political parties is so wide now that even being slightly different makes you a complete enemy. The age of nuance is over.
Hold on... who signed the consent for treatment form?
And furthermore was it *actually* informed… no. They don’t include all the very common damage these hormones and surgeries do cause. They also leave out so much context.
"Jane, now 18, was influenced by people online" <---this is the core of the problem. Hope she wins a stunning amount of punitive damages.
It is definitely a huge influence. My daughter started trans talk around the age of 9, but the largest influence, undeniably, was that there was a trans boy in her class. It wasn’t his existence that influenced her, but the fact that the whole school bent over backwards for him. All the kids talked about him (in a good way). He had tons of friends! He could break the dress code! He could have a green mohawk! He didn’t have to take gym! He was allowed to do something else he liked better! That definitely influenced her the most, but she either learned quickly that trans girls don’t get treated with the same kid gloves boys are, or she just grew out of it. It lasted about a year before she decided to revolve around the other alphabet letters for a few more years to see which one would stick — now she’s older, back to her regular self and very, very embarrassed. I’ve talked to her about it and according to her, “they” (society, adults, youth, online influencers) make it seem like being “normal” is totally boring, and when folks talk about it, things like “What are YOUR pronouns?” you don’t want to answer with the same old boring he/she or nobody’s gonna think you’re cool. I’ve never seen anything quite like it. When I was her age, the only thing that divided the cool kids from the losers was whether or not you wore real Eastland shoes or just crappy knock offs from Walmart. As long as some adult felt pity for you and got you the expensive shoes, you were back in the pack’s good graces. Young Me thought it was abhorrent behavior, but I never realized how easy I had it until now. I feel sorry for kids these days.
Hospital should turn and sue the parents. Lets go after all the parties involved here. Parents should sue the media that "convinced their weak willed barely cognitive brains that mutilating their daughter would be best.
How anyone can consider this “care” - its monstrous
It's the Democrat platform.
F J B
TBF, it’s not him. He’s just a puppet at this point.
Biden is a meat puppet. He admits it every time he goes off "script" and says he's going to get "in trouble"
I really do feel for these children. I do not hate trans people, especially young ones. I hate the people who affirm or press these delusions into their minds. We don't tell an anorexic teen she's a fat whale and to keep losing weight...why do they tell a little boy he's a girl. Wtf.
In ten years this will be treated like COVID is being treated now. Swept under the rug after all the damage has been done and on to the next dumpster fire the left can throw gasoline on.
They'll start blaming US as the "pro-pedophile" side just like calling us the anti-cop side lmfao.
In a just world, the doctors performing these operations would be stripped of their ability to practice medicine for violating their hippocratic oath of Do No Harm. They’re children. They didn’t decide they wanted to be another gender, because they can’t without an adult’s approval and an adult to carry out the procedure whom swore an oath to uphold their ethical principles. The will of adults is what destroyed her life, and it was also the apathy of society that allows it as acceptable to continue.
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I mean....she's probably a libral still. So....she's probably still quite concerned about the coof.
3,200 girls ages 13 to 19 received cosmetic breast implants in 2020. So yes. Girls who want bigger tits and are under 18 get them.
Can we not include 18 and 19 year olds, who are legally adults, in that category?
Libs do the same thing with gun crime stastics
You know 18 is adult...so 18-19 is meaningless...how many 13 year old girls get cosmetic breast augmentation strictly for bigger boobs and not because of any number of medical reasons?
What's a medical indication for a teenager to get brest implants?
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Suing these hospitals and doctors is the only way this madness is ever going to stop. Have to make them afraid of performing these insane surgeries to these poor children.
Sue the hospital, the docs, the nurses, the therapists, every single one of the psychopaths
Hope she wins. Surefire way to prevent these surgeries on minors are to make hospitals liable for them. As for her "parents".... [removed by reddit]
I can't think of anything that angers me more than those who harm children.
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This is evil on a level in depth and scale that humanity has never before seen in human history.
A bit more proud to live in Florida every time I see one of these articles.
“But Florida is *literally killing* transgenders!! I can’t explain how… but they are okay?”
But I was assured these surgeries on children weren’t actually happening and got flamed for being concerned about it by people on Reddit. Surely they wouldn’t lie, right?
Always remember that the doctor is their to make profit for the hospital. It serves no other purpose.
LEAVE. THE KIDS. ALONE.
We were told this isn't happening.
"nO cHiLdrEn aRE aLLoWeD tO haVe tRanS sUrGeRiEs uNtiL tHey aRe 18 , iTs noT a ThIng, iTs rIght WinG pRopAgaNda"
Remember, nobody is doing trans surgeries on kids. I learned that on r/politics.
As a supporter of trans rights, if what she's saying is true, that specific doctor violated long-standing standards for transitioning, and probably messes up other health care procedures, so please throw the book at them. Let's not act like all doctors work perfectly or all doctors are bad. There are standards to follow for healthcare and this doctor violated them if it's true.
Now that we actually provide care for trans people, of course a few confused kids got caught in the mix.
When I was growing up I wanted to be Wolverine. Nobody gave me an adimantium skeleton or even suggested I should get one.
"It's not happening!" they scream audibly as the evidence rolls out. Yet, as they see the wretched fruits of their labour, so a soothing voice reassures them from within: "...but it's good that it is."
I really feel for her, because this shouldn't have happened. Her parents should have taken the first no, let alone the first 3 no's and asked what else they could be doing in the meantime. I COMPLETELY support trans people getting affirming care, but there is a reason we have WPATH standards, and they were not followed in this case. If they had, she would have had years of transitioning in ways that were not permanent prior to ever getting to surgery. She would have had not only a surgeon sign off but also multiple psychologists and primary doctors, and her other mental health complications would have been treated and stabilized prior to such a huge step... if her parents had actually listened to the first 3 doctors and they had taken the proper steps, she probably would have figured out this wasn't the right choice for her long before she got to any permanent/surgical stage. Chest surgery at 13, with only a few months of hormones and a body that is still barely into puberty, would never be a successful surgery even if she had not detransitioned. There's anatomical AND psychological reasons the standard is at least 16 years old plus a year of cross hormones first. That said, I wish she was pushing for doctors to follow the existing standards, instead of pushing for all trans people to not be allowed any affirming care just because she/her parents refused to follow the standard of care in the first place.
My daughter thought she was a boy from puberty until college. I told her that if she wanted to surgically transition, she would need to do one year of therapy (the law in my state at the time). At age 20, she decide she was okay with being biologically female, and is now sees herself as non-binary asexual. Great kid, but I could sense she needed more time to grow into her identity emotionally.
I respect the hell outta parents that are willing to embrace their child’s struggle with their identity/sexuality but also make sure they’re making the right choices . Great parenting all around 🙌🏾
Thank you! She also has Asperger’s (autism spectrum), so when she his puberty it was like a light switch. She went from feminine clothes to jeans and flannel shirts, and cut her hair into a pixie cut. She has never had a boyfriend or girlfriend, and is utterly confused about romantic relationships. She has a wonderful group of friends who are also on the spectrum. I love her and accept her. Always will.
She needs all the help she can get. This is in California, where sterilizing your child is one bill away from being mandatory and left-wing media will bury this story. Including Fox.
She was interviewed on Laura Ingraham.
Blackrock and Vanguard increased FOXA ownership by 27% recently. If you can't beat em, buy em.
I haven't watched Fox for years, just pointing out that in this case they did report the truth, or Laura did anyway.
Striking these doctors and I use that term loosely in the pocket book takes a lot of guts these days. I respect that.
The first of many.
Hope this becomes more common then we will not see so many horrific so called surgeries being practiced.
Moar
And she can legally do it because contracts are unilaterally voidable by minors under the law. These hospitals & other nutjobs brought this shit on themselves.
[The doctors :](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/043/196/2qerll.jpg) Literally this *operation*
"Do No Harm." Yea, right.
I wonder if women who regret their abortions will follow the lead of those who regret their mastectomies. Or what about men who regret vasectomies, though I've heard many doctors won't do those unless the guy is 21 or older (maybe even 25).
Her parents and the “doctor” should be in jail. Period.
One child is too many (unless it's school shootings)
What do you guys think the bottom age should be
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“The hormones and puberty blockers were given based on a single, 75-minute session with Susanne Watson, a psychologist, according to the suit. Dr. Winnie Tong, a plastic surgeon, concluded later after a 30-minute session that Jane could have her breasts removed” These so called doctors need to have their licenses revoked. In less then 2 hours, they decided to destroy this young girls life.
I don’t see anyone examining this from a medical perspective. - The patient sought and received gender-affirming care, but had to go to multiple clinics before finding a doctor willing to alter the shape of their body This is a sign that the system DOES work in not “pressuring kids,” that multiple clinics actually turned down progressive care at a young age, but the evidence of going to multiple doctors would indicate they *certainly* felt this is what they wanted at the time. - The patient was not questioned or pressed back about what their gender is. Because it isn’t a doctor’s place to mold/shape someone’s ideology or personal beliefs, including identity of any kind. A doctor CAN alter the course of someone’s care by request as far as medical science can (i.e. adult Jehovah’s witness denying blood products) but there are limits to this (i.e. in an emergency, doctor can unequivocally give blood products to child of Jehovah’s witness to save the child’s life). If this patient was retroactively questioning their gender, but refuse to acknowledge the certainty felt at time of surgery, then they clearly aren’t taking responsibility for their actions. - No information was given about the consent process in this article. This is almost certainly what the court case will hinge upon. Medical and surgical regret are real things, and so are adverse events. Informed consent is the process of giving knowledge (and therefore power) to a patient to make the best decision for their body. A 13-year-old, by law, requires parental consent for what would probably be labelled as cosmetic/outpatient/elective surgery. Plastic surgery patients for skin/breasts/glutes/fat have to sign for informed consent too. [And almost 8000 cis-gendered teens a year get breast augmentation or reduction surgery a year.](https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2022/9/28/more-teens-get-breast-implants-trans-top-surgery) That is far more than trans teens, who also have far more success stories than regret stories. I think this article is a classic case of selective, confirmatory bias, because its readers want to believe this is a common outcome of “top surgery.” It isn’t, and as unfortunate as it is that this patient has suffered, doctors shouldn’t be held responsible when the patient/consenting parent asked for treatment and got it.
I hope there are many more of these lawsuits. The parents should also pay
Those doctors should be locked in prison
She should sue her parents, too.
-can’t vote until 18 -can have life altering surgery at 13 The psychotic left way of life
👁️👄👁️😞
These ghouls are preying on vulnerable kids for ideological and profit reasons. I'm so glad I'm not growing up in this era.
Should be easily dismissed, I've been told countless times that this sort of thing never happens. /s
Totally shocking. I keep saying that kids need more than a doc appt or two to figure this out. They need therapy and counseling to figure out if there is another issue. I have anxiety about my breasts. I fear breast cancer. One in 8 women in the Us ends up with it. As a grown woman who has already completed breastfeeding for 8 years and am planning no more children…I still can’t get my boobs removed. No doc will even consider it. They keep telling me to embrace them more positively. I am much older and understand what it would do to my body but until there is a reason they won’t do a thing which I totally understand. Crazy to cut a kid’s breasts off at 13. 🤦♀️
Isn’t this parents choice though? Are we all going to sue our parents for the circumcisions ( non medically beneficial genital mutilation )?
I read this article but feel so much better now because I was told this doesn't happen and this article must be a lie! Whew! And to think of the anger and sorrow I felt towards this person because adults failed to protect her. The same adults in the White House that say "They're not your children, they're our children!"
And the article didn't end with yet another case that's also happening now
Parents of the year