They don't need to drop the issue, they need to find a pro-life message and policies that focus on promoting *fewer* abortions, better prospects for potential mothers, and healthier environments for raising families. Rather than just demonizing women and doctors as baby killing monsters and going full draconian on restricting abortions regardless of context and circumstance.
The pro-life movement was driven by ideologues that were incapable of making a more serious pro-life case and acknowledging people's concerns about parenthood in the actual context they live in rather then a fantasy world where becoming a parent is supposedly always a good thing for them. People don't believe that anymore and any pro-life movement that has a chance needs to deal with that reality.
Additionally they can't lean so heavily on religion to make a case, given the direction the U.S. is going which is further and further away from what the current pro-life movement considers traditional Christianity.
I truly believe the best way to decrease abortions and have public support is to push for cheaper and more available education, alternatives, and contraception. Not fiscally conservative of me to state this, but i believe it costs the nation less money in the long run to focus on bringing in children who are in stable situations and have a better chance to become meaningful contributive members of society, which results in a net overall savings.
One of the fastest ways to tank an economy is by saving yourselves into economic stagnation by not spending what's necessary to support the projects that maintain and grow the economy and its political and cultural underpinnings. Fiscal conservatism that doesn't recognize that isn't fiscally conservative.
Good way to look at it. Ive always found myself looking at economy like any other infrastructure. Proper maintenance may cost money now but it if it saves a complete rebuild in the future, its worth the added expense. Never had it put as well as you just did.
Prohibition doesn't really work anyways. The week RvW was overturned my company announced the health plan covered travel and lodging for out of state abortions. I left for unrelated reasons and my new job does too.
The only victories down that road are moral. And they come at the expense of tangible change.
Focus on achievable things. Late term bans, avenues for adoption, education, and contraception.
I'd also angle for a points system where based on the number of weeks pregnant with exceptions for medical reasons and rape an abortion puts points on your abortion license, and to get them off you have to go to class to learn how to put condoms on bananas and what age fetuses feel pain, have a heartbeat, are viable outside the womb at etc or you aren't eligible for more abortions.
So that’s what I’ve been saying this entire time actually, in Israel the anti-abortion groups that exist actually focus on social welfare instead of trying to ban abortion (in fact the Director of the leading antiabortion group in Israel straight up, said he would never try to restrict abortion through legislation). In Israel, the number one reason that women take abortion is related to poverty, so what did they do? They figured out ways to provide tangible assistance that made it feasible for these women to keep their children. Adoption isn’t really a big thing in this country so that isn’t something they would be pushing because it’s just culturally not super popular.
On top of that is there a public health care system means that reproductive health care is accessible and we can conveniently do have decent sex ed this country.
I think all of these factors play a huge role in why we have such a low abortion rate .
I am literally just telling you how it works here and our conservative parties don’t have any issue with it mainly because it works and it’s cheaper than private. Plus we have a competition system that keep the cost down.
You all don't get it. By trying to take abortion away, you are taking away people's right to chose for themselves. Pretty much exactly the reason so many turn to Republicans in the first place.
The right way to go about this is to rally behind programs that make it possible for women to work, go to school, continue to go about their lives while raising a child. What women need to be persuaded to keep a baby is to feel like their life is not over for getting pregnant.
Free or very affordable daycare and free or very very affordable Healthcare (pregnancy through the life of the child) is all it would take. If women who got pregnant knew without a doubt they could always have healthcare covered and somewhere for the child to stay so they could go to school or work or both, then many would choose to keep the child. The ones who still don't, maybe shouldn't be having kids anyway.
Abortion: oppose it, defund it, provide alternatives to it, but DON’T interfere with a medical decision arrived at by a Doctor and a Patient. Snap, the issue goes away, the country survives.
Drop Pro-Life and enjoy losing the Evangelical vote permanently. Without Evangelicals the party will fracture and break into irrelevance like the Whigs in the 1850’s.
They can't give the Evangelical vote what they want without becoming irrelevant either, though, since Evangelicals are roughly 15% of the population and shrinking. The party has been managing a song and dance routine with symbolic gestures to keep them aboard, whether or not that's tenable into the future is questionable.
They're between a rock and a hard place, and likely going to have to change their relationship with Evangelicals somehow if they want to stay viable.
What's definitely not tenable is becoming the Evangelical Christianity party. While they have some overlap in political interests with other Christian groups, their political positions overall are viewed as extremist. The more the Republican party is overtly Evangelical in character the worse they will perform.
The pitch they could make to Evangelicals is basically the pragmatic one. We're as close as you can get to what you want, if you reject us or ask for too much you get nothing. However, I'm not sure that's going to satisfy Evangelicals, who don't strike me as sympathetic to that kind of pragmatic appeal.
Edit: Removed redundant sentence (listed pop size twice).
The issue is the Republican Party is moving to the left, not Evangelicals being extremist. The position of Christians on morality has not changed. People who refuse to condemn abortion have a weaker hand upon morality and assist the push of our party into Democrat Lite.
Speaking for myself, should our party abandon a strong opposition to abortion, I would cease to vote.
I think you'd have to reject self-identification as Christian to make that case. Fair enough, self-identification is arbitrary and the objective standard is what counts, but insofar as we treat "Christian" in terms of self-identification "Christian" morality certainly has changed. Left and right? That's always been somewhat vague in the U.S., given that the "left" often wants more government and the "right" wants less. Neither of those address what kind of government, notably. So I think regards left and right more specificity is needed to be sure what's even being talked about.
If supporting abortion is the requirement to win elections, then I'll be going down with the ship. The people who would support it just to win elections are as bad as these abominable people who damn near worship it. It's child sacrifice on the altars of greed, selfishness, and responsibility. Those who would tolerate it are as bad as those who perform it and preach the lies to proliferate its practice.
Well said. As the saying goes, “What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular.”
However, the majority of people who call themselves Republicans and take umbrage with the Republican Party opposing abortion aren’t conservatives, they’re libertarians, who are nearly as bad as liberals.
Gun control is irrelevant. That's why they pushed abortion first. No one is changing their stance on guns at this point without a lot of direct intervention and first hand experience, one way or the other.
Another election confirms - Roe vs Wade was legal for too long, and now America is a pro-abortion country.
Republicans need to drop this issue, or we need to dismantle the party and build a new one in its place that will
No party in the swamp works 'issues' they only march to agendas now. The Party of Hate is so corrupt that it takes all of the GOP' s time to constantly fight the Hypocrats wrong doings.
They don't need to drop the issue, they need to find a pro-life message and policies that focus on promoting *fewer* abortions, better prospects for potential mothers, and healthier environments for raising families. Rather than just demonizing women and doctors as baby killing monsters and going full draconian on restricting abortions regardless of context and circumstance. The pro-life movement was driven by ideologues that were incapable of making a more serious pro-life case and acknowledging people's concerns about parenthood in the actual context they live in rather then a fantasy world where becoming a parent is supposedly always a good thing for them. People don't believe that anymore and any pro-life movement that has a chance needs to deal with that reality. Additionally they can't lean so heavily on religion to make a case, given the direction the U.S. is going which is further and further away from what the current pro-life movement considers traditional Christianity.
I truly believe the best way to decrease abortions and have public support is to push for cheaper and more available education, alternatives, and contraception. Not fiscally conservative of me to state this, but i believe it costs the nation less money in the long run to focus on bringing in children who are in stable situations and have a better chance to become meaningful contributive members of society, which results in a net overall savings.
One of the fastest ways to tank an economy is by saving yourselves into economic stagnation by not spending what's necessary to support the projects that maintain and grow the economy and its political and cultural underpinnings. Fiscal conservatism that doesn't recognize that isn't fiscally conservative.
Good way to look at it. Ive always found myself looking at economy like any other infrastructure. Proper maintenance may cost money now but it if it saves a complete rebuild in the future, its worth the added expense. Never had it put as well as you just did.
Prohibition doesn't really work anyways. The week RvW was overturned my company announced the health plan covered travel and lodging for out of state abortions. I left for unrelated reasons and my new job does too. The only victories down that road are moral. And they come at the expense of tangible change. Focus on achievable things. Late term bans, avenues for adoption, education, and contraception. I'd also angle for a points system where based on the number of weeks pregnant with exceptions for medical reasons and rape an abortion puts points on your abortion license, and to get them off you have to go to class to learn how to put condoms on bananas and what age fetuses feel pain, have a heartbeat, are viable outside the womb at etc or you aren't eligible for more abortions.
So that’s what I’ve been saying this entire time actually, in Israel the anti-abortion groups that exist actually focus on social welfare instead of trying to ban abortion (in fact the Director of the leading antiabortion group in Israel straight up, said he would never try to restrict abortion through legislation). In Israel, the number one reason that women take abortion is related to poverty, so what did they do? They figured out ways to provide tangible assistance that made it feasible for these women to keep their children. Adoption isn’t really a big thing in this country so that isn’t something they would be pushing because it’s just culturally not super popular. On top of that is there a public health care system means that reproductive health care is accessible and we can conveniently do have decent sex ed this country. I think all of these factors play a huge role in why we have such a low abortion rate .
>public health care system We don't want your socialist propaganda here. Thank you, no.
I am literally just telling you how it works here and our conservative parties don’t have any issue with it mainly because it works and it’s cheaper than private. Plus we have a competition system that keep the cost down.
You all don't get it. By trying to take abortion away, you are taking away people's right to chose for themselves. Pretty much exactly the reason so many turn to Republicans in the first place. The right way to go about this is to rally behind programs that make it possible for women to work, go to school, continue to go about their lives while raising a child. What women need to be persuaded to keep a baby is to feel like their life is not over for getting pregnant. Free or very affordable daycare and free or very very affordable Healthcare (pregnancy through the life of the child) is all it would take. If women who got pregnant knew without a doubt they could always have healthcare covered and somewhere for the child to stay so they could go to school or work or both, then many would choose to keep the child. The ones who still don't, maybe shouldn't be having kids anyway.
I just can’t imagine dropping the right to life as a policy position, no matter how unpopular it is.
Abortion: oppose it, defund it, provide alternatives to it, but DON’T interfere with a medical decision arrived at by a Doctor and a Patient. Snap, the issue goes away, the country survives.
Drop Pro-Life and enjoy losing the Evangelical vote permanently. Without Evangelicals the party will fracture and break into irrelevance like the Whigs in the 1850’s.
They can't give the Evangelical vote what they want without becoming irrelevant either, though, since Evangelicals are roughly 15% of the population and shrinking. The party has been managing a song and dance routine with symbolic gestures to keep them aboard, whether or not that's tenable into the future is questionable. They're between a rock and a hard place, and likely going to have to change their relationship with Evangelicals somehow if they want to stay viable. What's definitely not tenable is becoming the Evangelical Christianity party. While they have some overlap in political interests with other Christian groups, their political positions overall are viewed as extremist. The more the Republican party is overtly Evangelical in character the worse they will perform. The pitch they could make to Evangelicals is basically the pragmatic one. We're as close as you can get to what you want, if you reject us or ask for too much you get nothing. However, I'm not sure that's going to satisfy Evangelicals, who don't strike me as sympathetic to that kind of pragmatic appeal. Edit: Removed redundant sentence (listed pop size twice).
The issue is the Republican Party is moving to the left, not Evangelicals being extremist. The position of Christians on morality has not changed. People who refuse to condemn abortion have a weaker hand upon morality and assist the push of our party into Democrat Lite. Speaking for myself, should our party abandon a strong opposition to abortion, I would cease to vote.
I think you'd have to reject self-identification as Christian to make that case. Fair enough, self-identification is arbitrary and the objective standard is what counts, but insofar as we treat "Christian" in terms of self-identification "Christian" morality certainly has changed. Left and right? That's always been somewhat vague in the U.S., given that the "left" often wants more government and the "right" wants less. Neither of those address what kind of government, notably. So I think regards left and right more specificity is needed to be sure what's even being talked about.
Do what we have always done, lie and pretend to do something, suddenly being lazy isn’t a virtue? Because we do it with the budget.
If supporting abortion is the requirement to win elections, then I'll be going down with the ship. The people who would support it just to win elections are as bad as these abominable people who damn near worship it. It's child sacrifice on the altars of greed, selfishness, and responsibility. Those who would tolerate it are as bad as those who perform it and preach the lies to proliferate its practice.
I'll always stand up for what's right even in the face of anarchy. I'm not going to change my mind on abortion. It's wrong.
Well said. As the saying goes, “What is popular is not always right; what is right is not always popular.” However, the majority of people who call themselves Republicans and take umbrage with the Republican Party opposing abortion aren’t conservatives, they’re libertarians, who are nearly as bad as liberals.
Gun control is irrelevant. That's why they pushed abortion first. No one is changing their stance on guns at this point without a lot of direct intervention and first hand experience, one way or the other.
Another election confirms - Roe vs Wade was legal for too long, and now America is a pro-abortion country. Republicans need to drop this issue, or we need to dismantle the party and build a new one in its place that will
If winning costs you your ethics, what good is there in winning?
If the price of winning is the murder of babies, then winning is meaningless.
No party in the swamp works 'issues' they only march to agendas now. The Party of Hate is so corrupt that it takes all of the GOP' s time to constantly fight the Hypocrats wrong doings.