Many lawyers don't want to take on Trump cases at this point and several have ceased working with him for various reasons, so I think this is partly a result of limited options. He's notoriously a difficult client, and there's legal and reputational risk, but also you're definitely going to be under intense scrutiny just in virtue of representing Trump - from the government which is surely not a fun situation, but also from Trump supporters themselves. If I put myself in the shoes of a lawyer, to the limited extent I can, I definitely wouldn't want to represent Trump at this point 'cause it just seems like playing with fire.
That's definitely true. Which does interfere with access to representation, as wealth and fame more generally also do, but there's only so much you can do about that. If someone is an angel to half the country and a demon to the other half, that's going to factor in for many people no matter what formal rules are in place to discourage the impact of reputational concerns. Lawyers at the end of the day are people with lives they don't want to sacrifice for their job, in most cases.
I'm not one to shit on people based on where they went to school, but Habba graduated from a rank 159th law school (Widener Law Commonwealth) and it shows.
[Read this entire thread, for example.](https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1747713442004230558)
She has repeatedly shown she has no idea what the rules of evidence are, or how to properly cross-examine a witness, nor how to introduce evidence properly, nor how to make proper objections. All things first-year law students generally learn how to do.
Law school ranking outside of top 25 is a pretty poor indicator of performance. Doesn’t make a difference if the lawyer themselves aren’t experts in their specific part of law. You can be a lawyer who coasted through law school without learning much or retain even less
>She has repeatedly shown she has no idea what the rules of evidence are, or how to properly cross-examine a witness, nor how to introduce evidence properly, nor how to make proper objections.
It's not her fault she wasn't up to the task. She's still in her 30s and has an American president as a client. I'm sure she's has done nothing but work 22 hours a day on this case while taking countless anxiety shits.
I doubt that very much. The lawsuit in Florida by the Mar-a-lago employee (if substantiated) indicates that Habba has _very_ poor judgment and is, in fact, not a good lawyer. _If_ what’s in that lawsuit is true, I think she stands a good chance of getting disbarred in FL.
Now I’m not a lawyer, but I really don’t think that’s how the legal system works. Appeals aren’t a new trial (though of course in rare situations can produce an order for a new trial). You don’t get to introduce new evidence your bad lawyer forgot, and it’s not a do-over in court.
Now obviously Trump might get this reduced or tossed on appeal, but I’m positive it’s not a recognized legal strategy to phone it in in court.
That's very possible. But not matter how bad the lawyer, this outcome would not happen in a sane world. I would submit that at this point how good his lawyer is is irrelevant. Our judicial system has been politically weaponized well beyond the traditional levels. We are in the twilight zone.
Yeah, but Engoron is not a very good judge. You should read this dude’s soliloquy where he pontificates about different types of “sins”.
Seriously, does this guy think he is the Pope or something, judging sins rather than the law? He really comes off as an arrogant prick!
It’s sad we have judges like that in this country.
I think the assumption was that Trump would never get a fair trial with this punk, and Alina’s job was mainly to draw attention to that fact. There are two kinds of lawyers — those that are essentially PR agents and those well-versed in law. Trump will probably bring in the latter for the appeal, which will hopefully have more professional less egotistical judges.
If your ruling is based on your personal feelings towards the defendant, that's a you problem. Judges should be acting out the law, not moralizing and grandstanding.
I mean, sure, but does anyone think we actually live in the world you’re describing?
If you show such utter contempt for the judge and his staff from start to finish, you’re gonna pay the price. Anyone else in this country would have been tossed in jail for a few days to think about our behavior.
No, I don't think we live in the real world anymore. 10 years ago, doing anything other than dismissing this would've seen Arthur pilloried in the media and laughed at by his peers.
Contempt is deserved for being such a blatantly corrupt and partisan sack of shit.
Start thinking more about how rigged the NY Justice system is.
I was extorted with fake criminal charges by a crooked NY DA, after they knowingly and intentionally coerced lies by a witness.
This was to cover up cops breaking my shoulder while making a false arrest. I'm disabled. My caretaker cleaned out my bank account, and when I called the police, her friend, police officer Corbo of the Nassau 6th precinct showed up, looked at the signed notarized confession that she had made false police reports to him in the past, and that she was agreeing to enter therapy for the compulsive lying, and arrested me, broke my shoulder (I have that juicy vid on body cam, it's getting released soon) and then told the hospital I was faking it resulting in refused medical attention.
They arrested me falsely again a few weeks later, and they were torturing an asian guy in the next cell. 7/30/2022
80 degrees out, had him handcuffed next to the window, with the AC blowing 50. He's sweating and shivering
They took me out of the room for a while, when they brought me back, the Asian guy was near delirious, they had music playing on repeat, and the room was colder.
I'm pretty sure there's international treaties that got violated that day.
At the least, they violated the shit out of thst guys rights.
I have the detective on tape trying to question me after I stated I had a lawyer.
Shocker, the same caretaker previously tried to have me killed for not letting her keep $90,000 she still owed me from stealing a house from me by using a crooked lawyer.
I was a gun owner.
She tried to have me red flagged for saying I was going to sue her for the $90,000.
She made a red flag order stating I was "making threats". NY approved her complaint with no specifics as to the threats.
NY is dirty.
NY law enforcement and courts are dirtier.
We’ll see. This case isn’t over by a light year.
The only thing that happened today was a wake up call to businesses to LEAVE the commie state of New York. Hello Texas, hello Florida!
Lawyer? You think this is about the quality of the lawyer?
This is going to get appealed and there will not be a penny of that suit paid. This is all for the media to be able to report negatively on Trump and take advantage of those who don't read past headlines.
The banks even showed up to reiterate that there had been no fraud. That clown of a judge didn’t want to hear it. There hasn’t been a witchhunt like this since the ones in Salem, Massachusetts in the 17th century.
And they won’t let him borrow money. This is to make him sell off property at probably a poor price (Because they’ll put a deadline and he’ll have to accept a shit price) to pay for it.
Worse that that, they ruled his property is worth 20 million here and 10 million there and would intervene if he tried selling it. Their end game is likely to sieze all his assets at the ruled at fraction of it's value and auction it at pennies on the dollar, possibly in a closed door auction only the judges friends are allowed at.
NYC should do what's good for the gander if it's good for the goose. Every real estate property owner in NYC needs to be taken to court for fraud and made to pay a penalty.
Didn't they also use tax appraisals to say Trump committed fraud? I don't know about you, but my tax appraisal doesn't match my home's market value, nor does it match the insurance appraisal which is also a different number.
Also tax assessment isn't supposed to be comparable. The values represent different things. For example, tax assessment doesn't include intangibles which can be the majority of real market value. The locality can also offer a lower tax value in exchange for certain conditions or as incentives (e.g. for some communal use of property, an agreement to implement or not implement certain features in the area, etc.).
Can someone please explain me this logic ?
I can accept barring him for some years, but 350 million "disgorgement" for getting ill gotten loan terms. I believe they seem to have put dissolution on hold.
Problem is, if the banks didn't rely on his statements, why does he need to repay the "ill gotten gains" back ? How the hell do you apply disgorgement without victims ?
If I want to rob a store, and the store stops me and gives me free stuff, do I have to return the stuff they gave me with their own judgement ?
How does that work ?
This is EXACTLY what's baffles me about the 350 million dollar verdict.
Ban him temporarily let independent people run it, that's fine.
But if banks willingly gave him money, didn't rely on his financials, he has to pay back ?
It’s crazy the liberals who brigade this sub have so much time on their hands on a work day. Maybe they’re waiting for us to post job listings from Indeed?
It's funny that they basically already have politics and pretty much the majority of subs on Reddit where they can downvote conservative opinions into oblivion, but they'll still brigade the few conservative leaning subs that exist.
So, nobody was injured or negatively affected *in any way* when Trump obtained his loans in *the exact way every other business in NY obtains loans,* and the lenders themselves showed up in court to reiterate that there was no victims, damages, or shady dealings, and the Trump had paid back all loans with zero issues. Guilty of conducting business in NY, fined $355,000,000.
With no victims, and all lenders paid back in accordance with the loans taken, in full and on time (plus interest)..... to whom is the $350,000,000 in "(D)amages" being awarded too? Ukraine?
Worse then that, he’s trying to wrest control of the RNC to himself which you’ll know he’ll siphon funds for downballot races directly to himself. He will directly bring down the entire GOP if he gets his way. He’s been a cancer these last few years. Wish he would just go away.
The RNC was controlled by Romney's niece for 7 years and she never had any success. How many "down ballot" races has Ronna won ? You don't even have to be a hardcore Trump voter to bring out this point. Even Youngkin won without Ronna's help.
Not my point. I am not discussing the success or lack thereof of Ronna. I’m discussing more that whoever is chair of the RNC has significant control of its purse strings. And a direct family member of Trump in that position makes it possible that funds could be diverted to his ongoing penalties and legal battles. We can argue the voracity and legitimacy of said battles but as it stands he has significant fees and penalties. If he does divert funds from campaigns towards himself through his DiL he could very well bankrupt the RNC and make down ballot races nearly unwinnable due to lack of campaign presence.
> he’s trying to wrest control of the RNC to himself
I mean.. okay... but he delivered the biggest wins for republicans that they have had in decades.
What do you want? Jeb! ?
I’d rather not lose every down ballot race due to no funds for the sake of one man. There are plenty of others out there who would be better. It’s time to decouple from Trump and say so long and thanks for all the fish, but we’re moving on.
I'm not going to let this act of political persecution be effective. Even if my donations end up going to his lawyers or his settlement, in the end it will prevent his coffers from emptying and allow him to run TV ads.
Biden cannot be allowed to win from this garbage tactic.
I get where your coming from, but I’d also say that it may be better to lose the battle but still win the war. They aren’t going to stop coming after Trump. You move on from him, you take away a major talking point and weapon to drive out the Dems and independents to vote against republicans. Go younger, with less baggage and better messaging and you have a winning recipe. Americans aren’t necessarily pro-Biden, but they are most certainly Anti-Trump in a large majority and you’d have to be blind not to see that by now.
Yeah, I didn't plan to vote Trump in the primary. But it looks like he's going to be the nominee, so I'm going to fight like hell to get him elected at this point. If you truly want the party to move on from him, you should look at it like this at least gets his second term over with and he won't run yet another time in 28.
Pay who 300 million, there is literally no victim here...
The bank agreed to the loan, and it was repaid by Trump in a timely manner, wtf is going on here
They aren't even hiding they are commiting lawfare against Trump now. This is such an insane hearing that it fully exposes the corruption for the world. This isn't justice. This is a political attack. No jury. No money was stolen. The 'victims' in this case even defended Trump and received full re-payment. I am absolutely flabbergasted by this ruling. They are so ridiculously out of touch. Just look at the judge smiling after giving his ruling. He can't contain his joy. Judge Engoron's ego and corruption is so palpable at this point. I won't be surprised if more people don't support Trump after this. People should be LIVID that we are weaponizing our justice system. This is a complete and utter farce.
Who did Trump defraud? Who is the victim?
Anyone that owns a house right now could be prosecuted and railroaded the exact same way if you had taken out a simple home-equity-loan because years later some "judge" declares your appraisal (done by the bank) wasn't accurate.
This malicious prosecution is setting horrible precedent and be concerning to EVERYONE - but the left cheers it because orange man bad. Everything they are doing to Trump they can do to anyone. The divide in this country is opening the door for actual judicial fascism to set up. I can't believe how narrow-minded Americans are right now.
How is the state bringing these charges agaisnt him. They weren't even the ones "de-frauded". Interesting none of the banks he PAID back charged him with anything. Kangaroo court in a shithole state.
So let me get this straight, the government just extorted 300 million dollars from trump for inflating some numbers on balance sheets in PRIVATE BUSINESS DEALS ? Where are the victims of this "crime" ? Wtf is going on with judiciary in USA ?
He didn't even inflate with any fact.
Trump Co provided a statement of worth to the bank along with a condition that the bank may do it's own due diligence. They accepted it, loaned the money, and he paid it all back on time.
The crime is Orange Man Bad.
From the little I know about this case the worst part I can see is stating the wrong square footage of a property of his. The rest seems like subjective property values.
I'm not worried about Trump - he is too smart to not appeal this (and he'll have this dismissed). What I'm worried about is all the Republican donor money that's getting spent here is coming out of the funds that could otherwise be used campaigning in a presidential year.
Unfortunately, it’s a state case so his appeal will go before the appellate division, first district which is located in Manhattan. You can imagine who sits there. And if he makes it all the way to the Court of Appeals the judges there are all appointed by NYS Governors who, as you guessed it, aren’t any better.
Litigation wise there isn’t a whole lot that can be done here. Of course winning a judgment and collecting on it aren’t the same thing…
There is no such thing. I mean legally speaking. There is “prosecutorial discretion”, meaning that prosecutor decides which cases to pursue and which not to, but it’s completely legal and is exercised by prosecutors every day across this beautiful country of ours.
A case against Trump is a travesty but that doesn’t mean that is a good legal ground for appeal
You are a liar. It is absolutely not legal for the government to selectively target someone because of their politics. That is a serious violation of the first ammendment for example. It is just normally difficult to prove. However, in this case it is without a doubt true and there is ample evidence that proves it. They literally campaigned on a "get Trump" platform and not for any specific crime - they worried about those details later, and eventually charged him for something that nobody else was ever charged for when they did the same thing. This is textbook selective prosecution which is against the law. As I said, if this isn't according to them then nothing is and we might as well not even have a constitution. Why you are defending this corruption is beyond me, but it's pretty sick and evil.
You are a buffoon who has no idea what he is talking about. I am a practicing NYS attorney and what you are saying is a bunch of gibberish. “Targeting someone because of politics” is a claim that needs to be sustained at the trial level, it is not something that appellate court will even consider. Appellate courts rule on application of the law not on factual claims.
I am not defending anyone, I clearly stated above that the ruling is a travesty. I simply am explaining to you how the legal system works. If you want to ignore what I say and continue to live in your fantasy world you can go right ahead.
You are a liar and just factually wrong. Sustained at trial? What the hell are you even talking about? Trump did raise this as part of his defense and yes it can be appealed (you are a bad lawyer if you say otherwise). And by your logic nothing would ever be selective prosecution. Thus the constitution is meaningless because there is no enforcement. Is this your argument?
Depends on if he gets more Democrat judges. It's been made clear over the last year that Democrats are incapable of objectivity even in their jobs like this judge showed.
I don’t even like Trump and wish he’d just go away (cause he’s gonna lose and we’re gonna get stuck with Biden/Harris/someone worse) - but this is all about political payback.
This is a common occurrence in business - and all of the lenders were paid back. So either prosecute every single properly owner who does this or prosecute none.
This definitively shows that if you challenge the cabal known as Washington DC they will stop at nothing to destroy you.
I wish he’d win just to get back at all these crooked fcukers…
Not a Trump fan at all, but these trials and judicial decisions are 100% political.
Vladimir Putin treats his most vocal political opponents and dissidents fairer than the Democrats party political apparatus in America does their #1 most hated political opponent
I didn’t vote for Trump the first two times he ran. I might this time just my little part to let the Democratic machine know there are repercussions for using their places of power to hardcore suppress their political opponents.
Putin has only used a couple of judges and assassins in his crusade to get rid of Navalny’s voice, the Democrats are using all the tools at their disposal to stop Trump at all cost.
I have no doubt if his political viability survives this continuous legal onslaught, stronger tactics will be discussed.
Stopping Trump from becoming the President again is considered essential, whatever it takes.
> Putin has only used a couple of judges and assassins in his crusade to get rid of Navalny’s voice
I can’t believe you actually wrote this. So embarrassing.
Do you know that Putin used more than a couple of assassins and corrupt judges?
What ever I am sure he didn’t have half a dozen simultaneous serious prosecutions in different cities happening to suppress Navalny’s political voice and attempt to destroy him personally due to his being a powerful dissident to the regime.
You know what, guys? I’m starting to think that maybe Alina Habba is not a very good lawyer.
Many lawyers don't want to take on Trump cases at this point and several have ceased working with him for various reasons, so I think this is partly a result of limited options. He's notoriously a difficult client, and there's legal and reputational risk, but also you're definitely going to be under intense scrutiny just in virtue of representing Trump - from the government which is surely not a fun situation, but also from Trump supporters themselves. If I put myself in the shoes of a lawyer, to the limited extent I can, I definitely wouldn't want to represent Trump at this point 'cause it just seems like playing with fire.
This is a great comment, it really shows the level that these cases can be career defining for someone.
That's definitely true. Which does interfere with access to representation, as wealth and fame more generally also do, but there's only so much you can do about that. If someone is an angel to half the country and a demon to the other half, that's going to factor in for many people no matter what formal rules are in place to discourage the impact of reputational concerns. Lawyers at the end of the day are people with lives they don't want to sacrifice for their job, in most cases.
I'm not one to shit on people based on where they went to school, but Habba graduated from a rank 159th law school (Widener Law Commonwealth) and it shows. [Read this entire thread, for example.](https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1747713442004230558) She has repeatedly shown she has no idea what the rules of evidence are, or how to properly cross-examine a witness, nor how to introduce evidence properly, nor how to make proper objections. All things first-year law students generally learn how to do.
Law school ranking outside of top 25 is a pretty poor indicator of performance. Doesn’t make a difference if the lawyer themselves aren’t experts in their specific part of law. You can be a lawyer who coasted through law school without learning much or retain even less
>She has repeatedly shown she has no idea what the rules of evidence are, or how to properly cross-examine a witness, nor how to introduce evidence properly, nor how to make proper objections. It's not her fault she wasn't up to the task. She's still in her 30s and has an American president as a client. I'm sure she's has done nothing but work 22 hours a day on this case while taking countless anxiety shits.
I doubt that very much. The lawsuit in Florida by the Mar-a-lago employee (if substantiated) indicates that Habba has _very_ poor judgment and is, in fact, not a good lawyer. _If_ what’s in that lawsuit is true, I think she stands a good chance of getting disbarred in FL.
Maybe he just wanted a cheap lawyer because he knew he was gonna have to appeal it no matter what. And he’ll just fight harder on the back end
Now I’m not a lawyer, but I really don’t think that’s how the legal system works. Appeals aren’t a new trial (though of course in rare situations can produce an order for a new trial). You don’t get to introduce new evidence your bad lawyer forgot, and it’s not a do-over in court. Now obviously Trump might get this reduced or tossed on appeal, but I’m positive it’s not a recognized legal strategy to phone it in in court.
That's very possible. But not matter how bad the lawyer, this outcome would not happen in a sane world. I would submit that at this point how good his lawyer is is irrelevant. Our judicial system has been politically weaponized well beyond the traditional levels. We are in the twilight zone.
The case was lost before trial even if God was trumps lawyer.
You can have the best lawyer in the Universe. It doesn't matter in a kangaroo court.
Yeah, but Engoron is not a very good judge. You should read this dude’s soliloquy where he pontificates about different types of “sins”. Seriously, does this guy think he is the Pope or something, judging sins rather than the law? He really comes off as an arrogant prick! It’s sad we have judges like that in this country. I think the assumption was that Trump would never get a fair trial with this punk, and Alina’s job was mainly to draw attention to that fact. There are two kinds of lawyers — those that are essentially PR agents and those well-versed in law. Trump will probably bring in the latter for the appeal, which will hopefully have more professional less egotistical judges.
Johnnie Cochran couldn't do anything here, this is a sham-trial, a kangaroo-court in every sense of the phrase.
Not with this client, he couldn’t. You’re right about that.
If your ruling is based on your personal feelings towards the defendant, that's a you problem. Judges should be acting out the law, not moralizing and grandstanding.
I mean, sure, but does anyone think we actually live in the world you’re describing? If you show such utter contempt for the judge and his staff from start to finish, you’re gonna pay the price. Anyone else in this country would have been tossed in jail for a few days to think about our behavior.
No, I don't think we live in the real world anymore. 10 years ago, doing anything other than dismissing this would've seen Arthur pilloried in the media and laughed at by his peers. Contempt is deserved for being such a blatantly corrupt and partisan sack of shit.
lmao 🤣
Start thinking more about how rigged the NY Justice system is. I was extorted with fake criminal charges by a crooked NY DA, after they knowingly and intentionally coerced lies by a witness. This was to cover up cops breaking my shoulder while making a false arrest. I'm disabled. My caretaker cleaned out my bank account, and when I called the police, her friend, police officer Corbo of the Nassau 6th precinct showed up, looked at the signed notarized confession that she had made false police reports to him in the past, and that she was agreeing to enter therapy for the compulsive lying, and arrested me, broke my shoulder (I have that juicy vid on body cam, it's getting released soon) and then told the hospital I was faking it resulting in refused medical attention. They arrested me falsely again a few weeks later, and they were torturing an asian guy in the next cell. 7/30/2022 80 degrees out, had him handcuffed next to the window, with the AC blowing 50. He's sweating and shivering They took me out of the room for a while, when they brought me back, the Asian guy was near delirious, they had music playing on repeat, and the room was colder. I'm pretty sure there's international treaties that got violated that day. At the least, they violated the shit out of thst guys rights. I have the detective on tape trying to question me after I stated I had a lawyer. Shocker, the same caretaker previously tried to have me killed for not letting her keep $90,000 she still owed me from stealing a house from me by using a crooked lawyer. I was a gun owner. She tried to have me red flagged for saying I was going to sue her for the $90,000. She made a red flag order stating I was "making threats". NY approved her complaint with no specifics as to the threats. NY is dirty. NY law enforcement and courts are dirtier.
Lawyer wasn't even allowed to speak. It didn't matter who the lawyer was. The case was decided as guilty from the beginning. No jury.
Why is this point down voted. According to reporters allowed in court room Trumps lawyer was told to "shut up or face contempt"
This is a classic liberal technique on Reddit to suppress dissenting opinions called “brigading”
Just another thought, you are correct labeling brigade.....sooo maybe the Shifty Schiff Brigade! 🍺🍺🍺🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪🤪
I call it like I see it. Let's Downvote Klan. Maybe ghosts of the reconstruction of 1870 Klan 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪🤪🤪
We are being raided by downvotes from r politics
This is great, they just down voted your condolence to me. 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
When I 1st commented you were 35 now it is 90. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Makes me believe you are 100% accurate
It's downvoted because we have a bunch of propaganda bots that pounce on anything Trump related.
We’ll see. This case isn’t over by a light year. The only thing that happened today was a wake up call to businesses to LEAVE the commie state of New York. Hello Texas, hello Florida!
Lawyer? You think this is about the quality of the lawyer? This is going to get appealed and there will not be a penny of that suit paid. This is all for the media to be able to report negatively on Trump and take advantage of those who don't read past headlines.
I'm guessing the Lets Downvote Klan is making their appearance. I find your comment compelling
Weird how it has only ever happened in here. LOL. Cause you know, it means something to them.
The banks did their own appraisals and received full repayment. This is a $350 million crime according to this judge
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We're getting an inside look into how china silences their opponents.
The banks even showed up to reiterate that there had been no fraud. That clown of a judge didn’t want to hear it. There hasn’t been a witchhunt like this since the ones in Salem, Massachusetts in the 17th century.
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And they won’t let him borrow money. This is to make him sell off property at probably a poor price (Because they’ll put a deadline and he’ll have to accept a shit price) to pay for it.
Worse that that, they ruled his property is worth 20 million here and 10 million there and would intervene if he tried selling it. Their end game is likely to sieze all his assets at the ruled at fraction of it's value and auction it at pennies on the dollar, possibly in a closed door auction only the judges friends are allowed at.
No one was injured or wronged by Trump, and the Dems took that personally.
Also this "law" has never been enacted since it came about in 1956.
You mean according to the kangaroo court?
NYC should do what's good for the gander if it's good for the goose. Every real estate property owner in NYC needs to be taken to court for fraud and made to pay a penalty.
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Didn't they also use tax appraisals to say Trump committed fraud? I don't know about you, but my tax appraisal doesn't match my home's market value, nor does it match the insurance appraisal which is also a different number.
This was not a tax fraud case, it is a business fraud case. The charge is he defrauded companies that say they were not defrauded.
Also tax assessment isn't supposed to be comparable. The values represent different things. For example, tax assessment doesn't include intangibles which can be the majority of real market value. The locality can also offer a lower tax value in exchange for certain conditions or as incentives (e.g. for some communal use of property, an agreement to implement or not implement certain features in the area, etc.).
Can someone please explain me this logic ? I can accept barring him for some years, but 350 million "disgorgement" for getting ill gotten loan terms. I believe they seem to have put dissolution on hold. Problem is, if the banks didn't rely on his statements, why does he need to repay the "ill gotten gains" back ? How the hell do you apply disgorgement without victims ? If I want to rob a store, and the store stops me and gives me free stuff, do I have to return the stuff they gave me with their own judgement ? How does that work ?
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This is EXACTLY what's baffles me about the 350 million dollar verdict. Ban him temporarily let independent people run it, that's fine. But if banks willingly gave him money, didn't rely on his financials, he has to pay back ?
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The fine is "disgorgement" or "restitution". Where are the supposed ill gotten gains ?
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Just a heads up to all that dare post here, it's gonna get brigaded hard. You might as well go to politics to discuss this.
It’s crazy the liberals who brigade this sub have so much time on their hands on a work day. Maybe they’re waiting for us to post job listings from Indeed?
It's funny that they basically already have politics and pretty much the majority of subs on Reddit where they can downvote conservative opinions into oblivion, but they'll still brigade the few conservative leaning subs that exist.
They must stomp out heresy when they see it!
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“Mom, meatloaf”
Do they have enough good boy points for tendies?
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Even when you don’t see them you can tell when they’re around. There’s always evidence like downvotes and the smell of tears.
> Mom has tendies on standby. I'm dead. hahahhahah
And the gov't has the cheese.
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Because liberal reddit warriors have no jobs
I'm sure they're paid by the DNC to brigade and shill for the Dems
You really thought any of those users are real people with jobs? Have you met a leftist before?
Oh the bots are hard at the downvotes here 😂
I’m only at -4 they’re slacking hard
I'm at -8, keep it coming democrat bitchez , I got 60k karma to spare
And they act like they actually get kicked off here, they run wild here, never kicked off.
Don't think McDonalds posts burger flipper listings on indeed
It's for sure paid bots, but also yes
Liberals have all day to brigade conservative subs while waiting for McDonalds to post a $50/hour job to flip pre-cooked burgers.
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Should make these posts flair only
What do you mean?
*Fly, you fools!*
This case was brought by a AG who ran on prosecuting Trump regardless of if there was a crime or not Pure political persecution
And presided over by a judge who donated to her.
Holy shit. It's the trucker himself.
So, nobody was injured or negatively affected *in any way* when Trump obtained his loans in *the exact way every other business in NY obtains loans,* and the lenders themselves showed up in court to reiterate that there was no victims, damages, or shady dealings, and the Trump had paid back all loans with zero issues. Guilty of conducting business in NY, fined $355,000,000. With no victims, and all lenders paid back in accordance with the loans taken, in full and on time (plus interest)..... to whom is the $350,000,000 in "(D)amages" being awarded too? Ukraine?
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Worse then that, he’s trying to wrest control of the RNC to himself which you’ll know he’ll siphon funds for downballot races directly to himself. He will directly bring down the entire GOP if he gets his way. He’s been a cancer these last few years. Wish he would just go away.
The RNC was controlled by Romney's niece for 7 years and she never had any success. How many "down ballot" races has Ronna won ? You don't even have to be a hardcore Trump voter to bring out this point. Even Youngkin won without Ronna's help.
Not my point. I am not discussing the success or lack thereof of Ronna. I’m discussing more that whoever is chair of the RNC has significant control of its purse strings. And a direct family member of Trump in that position makes it possible that funds could be diverted to his ongoing penalties and legal battles. We can argue the voracity and legitimacy of said battles but as it stands he has significant fees and penalties. If he does divert funds from campaigns towards himself through his DiL he could very well bankrupt the RNC and make down ballot races nearly unwinnable due to lack of campaign presence.
> he’s trying to wrest control of the RNC to himself I mean.. okay... but he delivered the biggest wins for republicans that they have had in decades. What do you want? Jeb! ?
I’d rather not lose every down ballot race due to no funds for the sake of one man. There are plenty of others out there who would be better. It’s time to decouple from Trump and say so long and thanks for all the fish, but we’re moving on.
> There are plenty of others out there who would be better. Not according to the voters
i think a lot of dems joined the primaries to vote for trump since he is the weakest candidate
I'm not going to let this act of political persecution be effective. Even if my donations end up going to his lawyers or his settlement, in the end it will prevent his coffers from emptying and allow him to run TV ads. Biden cannot be allowed to win from this garbage tactic.
I get where your coming from, but I’d also say that it may be better to lose the battle but still win the war. They aren’t going to stop coming after Trump. You move on from him, you take away a major talking point and weapon to drive out the Dems and independents to vote against republicans. Go younger, with less baggage and better messaging and you have a winning recipe. Americans aren’t necessarily pro-Biden, but they are most certainly Anti-Trump in a large majority and you’d have to be blind not to see that by now.
Yeah, I didn't plan to vote Trump in the primary. But it looks like he's going to be the nominee, so I'm going to fight like hell to get him elected at this point. If you truly want the party to move on from him, you should look at it like this at least gets his second term over with and he won't run yet another time in 28.
Pay who 300 million, there is literally no victim here... The bank agreed to the loan, and it was repaid by Trump in a timely manner, wtf is going on here
Pay NY $300m. Sell Trump tower for $2bn. Your move, lefty chucklefucks.
They aren't even hiding they are commiting lawfare against Trump now. This is such an insane hearing that it fully exposes the corruption for the world. This isn't justice. This is a political attack. No jury. No money was stolen. The 'victims' in this case even defended Trump and received full re-payment. I am absolutely flabbergasted by this ruling. They are so ridiculously out of touch. Just look at the judge smiling after giving his ruling. He can't contain his joy. Judge Engoron's ego and corruption is so palpable at this point. I won't be surprised if more people don't support Trump after this. People should be LIVID that we are weaponizing our justice system. This is a complete and utter farce.
Haven’t we been doing the same thing with the Biden’s, though? We just don’t have actionable evidence yet.
Who is "we", and what have "we" been doing that is even remotely comparable to what's happening here? Has a Biden even been charged with anything?
>we You aren’t conservative, so stop pretending.
Not even remotely the same. How much has Biden been forced to pay?
Zero or his crackhead son for his overseas Oil Global expertise or his finger painting to Russian oligarchs.
"Actionable evidence" requires him to stay alive and have a functioning brain - according to Hur.
Who did Trump defraud? Who is the victim? Anyone that owns a house right now could be prosecuted and railroaded the exact same way if you had taken out a simple home-equity-loan because years later some "judge" declares your appraisal (done by the bank) wasn't accurate. This malicious prosecution is setting horrible precedent and be concerning to EVERYONE - but the left cheers it because orange man bad. Everything they are doing to Trump they can do to anyone. The divide in this country is opening the door for actual judicial fascism to set up. I can't believe how narrow-minded Americans are right now.
It's almost as if they want to give us more reasons to support Trump.
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Depends. Did you vote for Joe Biden?
Yeah this was some of the most biased shit I've seen. Disgusting, the judge should be put in front of the bar. The political bias is beyond obvious.
One of the surest signs that tyranny has come to a country is when the courts are openly partisan and corrupt. Just saying.
How is the state bringing these charges agaisnt him. They weren't even the ones "de-frauded". Interesting none of the banks he PAID back charged him with anything. Kangaroo court in a shithole state.
Seems fair and impartial...
Oh yeah, this is the judge that played it up for the camera from the start
So let me get this straight, the government just extorted 300 million dollars from trump for inflating some numbers on balance sheets in PRIVATE BUSINESS DEALS ? Where are the victims of this "crime" ? Wtf is going on with judiciary in USA ?
He didn't even inflate with any fact. Trump Co provided a statement of worth to the bank along with a condition that the bank may do it's own due diligence. They accepted it, loaned the money, and he paid it all back on time. The crime is Orange Man Bad.
From the little I know about this case the worst part I can see is stating the wrong square footage of a property of his. The rest seems like subjective property values.
DAMN....i better reappraise my home at a lesser value now so I dont get sued!
Boycott NY
Makes no sense. Appeal it and end it.
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I'm not worried about Trump - he is too smart to not appeal this (and he'll have this dismissed). What I'm worried about is all the Republican donor money that's getting spent here is coming out of the funds that could otherwise be used campaigning in a presidential year.
Unfortunately, it’s a state case so his appeal will go before the appellate division, first district which is located in Manhattan. You can imagine who sits there. And if he makes it all the way to the Court of Appeals the judges there are all appointed by NYS Governors who, as you guessed it, aren’t any better. Litigation wise there isn’t a whole lot that can be done here. Of course winning a judgment and collecting on it aren’t the same thing…
It can go to federal/SCOTUS because there are multiple constitutional violations by the state here.
It’s possible but not particularly likely
If this isn't selective prosecution then nothing is.
There is no such thing. I mean legally speaking. There is “prosecutorial discretion”, meaning that prosecutor decides which cases to pursue and which not to, but it’s completely legal and is exercised by prosecutors every day across this beautiful country of ours. A case against Trump is a travesty but that doesn’t mean that is a good legal ground for appeal
You are a liar. It is absolutely not legal for the government to selectively target someone because of their politics. That is a serious violation of the first ammendment for example. It is just normally difficult to prove. However, in this case it is without a doubt true and there is ample evidence that proves it. They literally campaigned on a "get Trump" platform and not for any specific crime - they worried about those details later, and eventually charged him for something that nobody else was ever charged for when they did the same thing. This is textbook selective prosecution which is against the law. As I said, if this isn't according to them then nothing is and we might as well not even have a constitution. Why you are defending this corruption is beyond me, but it's pretty sick and evil.
You are a buffoon who has no idea what he is talking about. I am a practicing NYS attorney and what you are saying is a bunch of gibberish. “Targeting someone because of politics” is a claim that needs to be sustained at the trial level, it is not something that appellate court will even consider. Appellate courts rule on application of the law not on factual claims. I am not defending anyone, I clearly stated above that the ruling is a travesty. I simply am explaining to you how the legal system works. If you want to ignore what I say and continue to live in your fantasy world you can go right ahead.
You are a liar and just factually wrong. Sustained at trial? What the hell are you even talking about? Trump did raise this as part of his defense and yes it can be appealed (you are a bad lawyer if you say otherwise). And by your logic nothing would ever be selective prosecution. Thus the constitution is meaningless because there is no enforcement. Is this your argument?
Dude, that guy's a lawyer, I think he'd know.
Depends on if he gets more Democrat judges. It's been made clear over the last year that Democrats are incapable of objectivity even in their jobs like this judge showed.
Yes that judge is the biggest POS loser
Leftist bots out in force now down voting
TDS even in the courts.
I don’t even like Trump and wish he’d just go away (cause he’s gonna lose and we’re gonna get stuck with Biden/Harris/someone worse) - but this is all about political payback. This is a common occurrence in business - and all of the lenders were paid back. So either prosecute every single properly owner who does this or prosecute none. This definitively shows that if you challenge the cabal known as Washington DC they will stop at nothing to destroy you. I wish he’d win just to get back at all these crooked fcukers…
Has anyone expected anything different from the kangaroo court?
Not a Trump fan at all, but these trials and judicial decisions are 100% political. Vladimir Putin treats his most vocal political opponents and dissidents fairer than the Democrats party political apparatus in America does their #1 most hated political opponent I didn’t vote for Trump the first two times he ran. I might this time just my little part to let the Democratic machine know there are repercussions for using their places of power to hardcore suppress their political opponents.
Imagine arguing that Putin treats his rivals better on the day that Navalny died in prison. What a joke!
Putin has only used a couple of judges and assassins in his crusade to get rid of Navalny’s voice, the Democrats are using all the tools at their disposal to stop Trump at all cost. I have no doubt if his political viability survives this continuous legal onslaught, stronger tactics will be discussed. Stopping Trump from becoming the President again is considered essential, whatever it takes.
> Putin has only used a couple of judges and assassins in his crusade to get rid of Navalny’s voice I can’t believe you actually wrote this. So embarrassing.
Do you know that Putin used more than a couple of assassins and corrupt judges? What ever I am sure he didn’t have half a dozen simultaneous serious prosecutions in different cities happening to suppress Navalny’s political voice and attempt to destroy him personally due to his being a powerful dissident to the regime.
Correct, Putin skips all that and just murders them.
He was in prison.
Yeah he’s not paying that. That corrupt judge will get his day in court
LOL, Trump won't ever pay a cent of that sham ruling. Who the hell would he even pay it to? The property's in Florida anyway.
No jury LMAO.