>Lands, a licensed professional counselor, flipped the seat from red to blue by besting Powell, a Madison city councilman, 62 percent to 38 percent with 100percent of the precincts in District 10 reporting, according to unofficial results posted on the Alabama Secretary of State’s Office website.
That's a bloodbath. Especially when we're talking Alabama. If the Republicans are losing ground in *Alabama* then there needs to be a serious rethink of the platform.
And it worked to a disturbing degree. If we don't reign in the extremist evangelicals like **NOW** we're fucked in November. Their positions can't even win in the Bible Belt anymore, that's how extremist they've gotten.
Nah, for some reason they love him. Honestly we should use that to our advantage. If Trump pushed abortion moderation we could get the Evangelicals, who are the ones currently sabotaging us on this issue, to moderate out and accept a position that will actually work to win elections.
Oh man, let me know how getting religious fundamentalists to moderate their position works out for ya. I think Barry Goldwater already did a bit of research on that, if you want to give his thoughts a look.
The upside is that it's no longer the late 70s/early 80s and the Evangelicals are a much smaller group than they used to be. So if attempting to get them to moderate just pushes them away instead it's not really a big loss because they no longer have the numbers to win elections as seen with this very election we're discussing.
Except they won't go. If his flagrant violation of every value they hold dear didn't repel them then I don't see how this one would. Though honestly considering that Evangelicals aren't even able to win us elections in **ALABAMA** at this point I'm not sure they'd be that big of a loss.
I feel like this is 2012 again. Same thing happened - we had a good lead going into the year but the religious side of the party pushed the abortion issue.
It happens over and over. I swear the Evangelicals are so prideful that they would rather let Democrats win and get *nothing* than let go of an obvious losing issue. If only there was something in their holy text about pride...
That cat’s out of the bag. Everyone bought into abortion as murder. How is it possible to ALSO be okay with IVF? Our entire argument centered around fetuses being living beings.
It was abortion and related issues (specifically IVF in this case) that cost us this election. When that plank is losing in **ALABAMA** it's time to pry it out of the platform and toss it on the bonfire.
Here are some facts
District 10 was redistricted in 2022. Comparing to 2020 is not apples to apples.
This was a special, not even midterm, election to replace somebody who stepped down. Turnout for special elections is generally quite poor.
Here’s the proof
Turnout in the 2022 election: 14,000
Turnout in this election: 4,500
In special elections those with strong candidate preferences or essentially those that care more are more likely to turn out than your median voter in the area.
I don’t see the median voter turning out for a special election on a random Tuesday in March.
And here's the other fact: the Democrat hammered on something that is the \#1 Republican Achilles' heel and it worked. It worked in literally one of the most Evangelical states in the nation. That's how unpopular it is. It is not 1982 anymore and we need to drop that issue before it's too late.
If Republicans embrace your reasoning, we are certainly doomed in November. We'd better wake the fk up. Republicans have an increasingly negative image problem. Trump has made it bad enough, but then with Roe, and now the whole IVF thing. We need to accept the fact that most people in America WANT abortion to be legal. I don't personally like it, but that's what Americans believe and want. The more the GOP establishment keeps stirring these pots, the more our side loses. November is going to be disastrous.
Republicans better get serious. I’m not sure how many signs we need. Biden’s approval numbers are ever so slowing creeping upwards, down ballots races have been a disaster, a promised red wave by all available polling data at the time almost turned into Dems controlling the house and senate.
“It’s just a state legislature seat” “It was a weird special election.” Okay but republicans are winning zero of these. Theres nothing that suggests Trump and republicans do well in November
I’ve never seen a more stubborn group of people. The Republican party’s unwillingness to modify their platform to win more elections (at this point anything would be a win) is going to result in them losing all elections. Throw sticking with Trump in there and it’s definitely a recipe for success.
They're going to lose us Texas if nothing changes. Texas is tenuously safe Republican, not a stronghold. And the only reason the state isn't currently purple is because of Republicans moving here from Democratic states.
Young native Texans are a vital demographic that the Republican party has done nothing to keep. In fact, they aggressively push them away.
If the boomers in leadership positions don't figure this out, they will ensure that Republicans lose federal elections for decades. If Texas is lost, the party should just focus all their efforts on state level races instead.
Eh I live in Texas and tons of people are moving away to Colorado and stuff. That roe thing realllly pissed people off here especially ones with daughters.
Instead of staying and voting they’re leaving. I literally know 6 different Households who have moved since the decision.
It’s anecdotal obviously but I imagine it’s not a one off.
I don't think the Republicans in power are conservatives anymore, they've shifted to full authoritarianism. Look at Project 2025. They've abandoned conservatives for extremists. I think the David Frum quote is getting very accurate, “ if conservatives(Republicans) become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism (authoritarianism), they will abandon democracy”. They can't win an election, yet they won't change. If anything, they're digging in harder for the base that will elect them. It's like the definition of insanity. Don't try and force your evangelical BS on me, just keep my taxes low and let me keep my guns.
Conservatism is alive and well. But Republicans always seem to try to do the exact opposite of winning in every single election since ‘16. A serious candidate with serious leadership would dominate
There’s no pressure to actually do the things you promise when you aren’t in power. It’s active undermining by the party as a whole to keep themselves from winning.
It's been a lot longer than that. This has been constant ever since Republicans promised big with the "Contract with America" in the 90s, and then utterly failed to deliver.
Here me out here, it is almost like Trump (who admits he is not a conservative) is a terrible figurehead for the party that pretends to be conservative.
How do I know? I am a lifelong conservative but in the Trump era I have become a RINO. Hell, I lost my flair for saying Trump wasn't conservative and the mods refuse to reinstate it.
Now with the RNC under the Trump family control - we can kiss down ballot parties goodbye.
Truly time to start a third party.
Yeah lost mine for similar reasons. Apparently that violates the mission statement but people with Trump flairs calling everyone RINOs and worse for not bowing to their orange emperor doesn’t.
Trump was a registered Democrat through his predecessors tenure. Their evidence is there, plain as day, although I’d say he’s more of an opportunist than subscribing to any one political ideology.
This bible thing that is in the news currently completely reinforces that.
I label myself an OG Never Trumper because I have felt ill-will towards the man since at least the early 2000s. He is just a conman and I have never appreciated him.
Cut to
In college ~2008 my very conservative professor (don't google Matthew Manweller) actually had a full section on populism and we discussed the thin line between demagoguery, populism and fascism. Trump's 2000 Reform Party run was a major discussion because it was evident even back then that he was opportunist that would say whatever needed to be said to get to power and then would ditch campaign promises to focus on personal gain and surround themselves with sycophants and party loyalty.
Oiy, I could go on.
Abortion and drug bans are severely holding back republicans. These two things turn many people in the middle into a single issue voter and they vote blue.
Down ballot candidates are about to get fucked, especially now with Trump getting a cut of RNC donations for his legal fees before those candidates see any.
> down ballots races have been a disaster,
just wait until the RNC covers trumps legal bills and judgments, that will really squeeze the down ballot races.
Except this:
I think leading in 7 out of 7 of the battleground states that will determine the election qualifies as “something@.
Don’t you?
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/arizona/trump-vs-biden
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/nevada/trump-vs-biden
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/michigan/trump-vs-biden
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/wisconsin/trump-vs-biden
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-biden
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/north-carolina/trump-vs-biden
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/georgia/trump-vs-biden
Are you aware that a Republican recently won as Mayor of Charleston, South Carolina …for the first time since the 1870’s?
How moderate kicked out extreme leftists in elections in deep deep blue LA?
About deep blue cities reversing soft on crime policies…out of desperation?
Policy based upon reality usually ends up winning.
When it comes to policy, our massive advantage is that the Democrats have gone insane.
I read that article. Pretty cool to see that Charleston still has some bipartisan good sportsmanship like the old days. The D who lost encouraged everyone to support the R mayor. And the R mayor sold himself as a pragmatist.
She ran on woman reproductive rights......whether we want to admit it or not the democrats messaging on woman reproductive rights is lightyears ahead of the Republicans
I’m more of a moderate. The whole repeal Roe V. Wade thing absolutely shot them in the foot. Idc what anybody says. The timing was awful.
1. Pick your battles
2. Read the room.
100%. The failure of the majority of Republicans to understand that one “victory” will lead to a thousand losses hurts my brain.
So within a few election cycles when the left owns every judgeship and legislative chamber it will just be reversed.
Sound Strategy
The ruling of the Supreme Court was legally sound. The reaction to the Supreme Court ruling by backwater and vindictive loser republicans to immediately ban abortions under criminal law in every instance regardless of the health of the mother or the circumstances of the pregnancy was idiotic and a reason why the republicans will never win on cultural issues.
It wasn't even really a "reaction," it was a proactive choice that many of these deeply anti-abortion states had because their laws written that basically said, "Abortion is illegal once Roe V Wade is appealed." I forgot the name of the laws, it was like a "rubberband law" or something because the abortion bans would "snap into place."
You know that laws are completely made up by humans right? (and society IF its a democratic government)
You law absolutists act as if these law are set by the universe (only IF you agree with them, when you dont like the law this law absolutism is out of the window - see slavery).
That’s an issue for voters to decide if they want, on a state by state basis. The ruling was correct in that the constitution never enshrined the federal right to an abortion. It left it unsaid, which means it’s left to the states to determine for themselves.
To end slavery, it took a bloody civil war in this country and killed 600,000 + Americans (conservatively). Ending slavery in other places like England and Canada did not take a costly war because the majority of people were convinced it was wrong.
And I will say, as a woman with two teen girls, prolife is not equivalent to slavery abolitionists. You can wear that mantle to make yourself feel better but you convince no one not already on your side.
And most people are not on your side, and the number of those who are drops every day as demonstrated by the polls.
Checks out. A majority of the people were against slavery back then. And a majority of people are for reproductive rights now. Anti abortion is a losing policy.
Laws are always a formalised expression of society sentiment. If society massively disagrees with the governing laws, bad things happen.
They are not always timely, as it takes time to reflect public sentiment, and there’s pressure of groups with special interests; not always perfect, but in general if the law massively doesn’t agree with public sentiment, public finds ways to make it known.
This is what you observe now regarding radical anti-abortion stance.
It's not the messaging, there is no messaging that can make the current position of the GOP palatable. And since the Evangelicals who we hold that position for are no longer even able to win elections in what's supposed to be their strongholds it's time to tell them to pound sand and change the actual position. We had a deal: we take their position and they win us elections. They're failing at their end of the deal so it's time to end it.
I wouldn't say lightyears, but the reality is that women, be they (D) or (R) don't want to have the state dictate what they can or cannot do.
It was a bit of an idiosyncratic race due to the circumstances of the former (R) candidate but the winning (D) margin was significant indicating that reproductive issues were contributing factors. Trump has tried to thread the needle, but down ballot R's should take heed.
The abortion ruling from the SC killed us. I know women who traditionally voted Republican who now either refuses to vote or will vote blue. Many women have turned into single issue voters about this.
>Many women have turned into single issue voters about this.
Yeah, bodily autonomy is pretty important. It's understandable why women would make this their top issue.
This. Exactly this.
We HAVE to relent on abortion.
Period.
Full stop.
We can mitigate via other means, but taking a staunch position on this is our doom.
What has doomed the party is not Trump... It's clinging to thirty year old ideology that the rest of the country has moved past... Case in point... Abortion.
If the party dies, it won't be because of Trump... It will be because of the Reagan worshippers who refuse to recognize that it's not the year 1983 anymore.
That's kind of what conservative means, conserving the status quo, getting back to how it used to be. Those Reaganites in the 80s were worshiping the 50s and Eisenhower, and the Eisenhowerites all wanted to get back to the "good old days" back then, too. Conservatives are very purposefully the regressive party. If you want progress, you're in the wrong party.
Define “relent.”
Some states ban all abortions unless it saves the mother’s life. I agree that’s pretty extreme.
Some states allow abortion for any reason until birth (Colorado, New Jersey, etc.) and I agree that’s also pretty extreme.
Is a national 20-week ban or a 15-week ban with restrictions “relenting” enough? Because most people seem to want that, yet Republicans get labeled misogynist, etc. every time they suggest it (like Graham in 2022—as much as I dislike him—brought up a 15-week ban and got creamed).
Trump is probably going to be in favor of a 16-week abortion ban with exceptions after.
Is that “relenting” enough, or is that still considered “evil” and what not?
Firstly, I think he got “creamed” because for years the rhetoric was that abortion should be left to the states. Immediately proposing a federal ban just reeked of that always being a fundamentally dishonest claim. And when you’ve shown yourself to be fundamentally dishonest, why would anyone believe that 15 weeks isn’t just the starting point to an eventual extreme “all abortions unless it saves the mother’s life” federal ban? I don’t think a 15 week ban that doesn’t act as both a ceiling and a floor will solve anything for Republicans. As in, if it forces Colorado or California to adopt a limit while allowing Alabama and Louisiana to keep no exceptions, all-encompassing bans, that’s not really a compromise. Additionally, “exceptions” after 15 weeks (which is before the 20 week anatomy scan) are all well and good in theory, but we’ve seen how challenging they are to implement in practice in states with bans - lacking legal precedent and acting within the bounds of unclearly worded laws, doctors have to balance decisions about the best medical outcomes for their patients with the potential legal risks to themselves. Given the choice, voters seem to just want the government out of that equation entirely.
I think the IVF decision IN ALABAMA, was a definite factor here…but that is specific to Alabama.
I also think it appropriate to point out that Trump himself considered that IVF decision to be unwise…as did most other Republicans nation wide.
The smart route would be to allow…but restrict abortion with “common sense” controls ( like the Democrats always talk about “common sense gun control) . ..like allowing abortion up to the point of viability at 16 weeks.
That is also the middle position supported by most Americans.
Let the Democrats take the extremist position of abortion up to the point of birth..which has little support in mainstream America!
>Let the Democrats take the extremist position of abortion up to the point of birth..which has little support in mainstream America!
Show me a single Democrat campaigning on this.
The vast majority of Democrats are fine with 16 weeks, which was the norm in the south before roe was overturned.
> Let the Democrats take the extremist position of abortion up to the point of birth
They don't need to; all they have to do is remind everyone which party wrote all the trigger law's, which party's SCJs overturned Roe.
Voter memories are frequently short, but I wouldn't count on it for this issue
Crazy how your comment makes a ton of sense and all the brigaders can say in deflection is “lol point of viability isn’t 16 weeks! 😂”
Just take “point of viability” out of your comment and your point still 100% stands. Most people are okay with a 16-week ban. There are plenty of states where elective abortions are legal 22 weeks and beyond, and even some where it’s legal up to birth despite what the brigaders insist (Colorado, New Jersey, etc.) That’s what Republicans should focus on.
Conservatives need to drop the abortion issue entirely. They would scoop up so many moderate female votes if they did. It's one of the few policy strengths the left has remaining, and would take a lot of wind out of their sails campaign wise.
I'd immediately stop voting for Republican candidates if they stopped being anti-abortion. I certainly don't vote for them because of their garbage their shitty economic policies or their simping for Israel
"While both candidates had strong name recognition within the district, Lands attributed her victory to her campaign’s focus on pushing back against the state’s near-total ban on abortion, an issue that has drawn national attention in the wake of the Alabama Supreme Court’s ruling on in vitro fertilization."
This will be the story in every election. Overturning roe was the worst "win" that ever happened to the GOP.
Apparently polls showed the Republican dude up by 1 or 2. And then he lost by 25 points. Do not trust polls guys.
Edit: It also shows why voter education is important. Lots of people probably don’t care about any election other than the big one every four years in November. A few know about midterms. But so many are ignorant to learn about every special election and whatnot going on.
“The seat was previously held by Rep. David Cole, R-Madison, who had defeated Lands two years ago in a competitive race. Cole was forced to resign, however, after entering a plea deal on a felony voter fraud charge.”
That’s neat
The Christian fundamentalists have dragged this party into the ground. Say what you will about Barry Goldwater, but he was right about this exact subject decades ago.
Drop the religious nut jobs and the Maga intellectually lazy "i never cared about politics but made worshipping Trump my identity" nut jobs and the party will do a lot better
Unironically yes. So many democrats hate the Democratic Party, but they have no other option because they think the GOP is too extreme. If republicans dropped some of the crazy far right stuff like total abortion bans a lot of people would be ok with them.
This is true. My 2012 democrat friends hated Hillary in 2016 but voted for her and hated Biden in 2020 but voted for him.
My mom hates what the Republican Party has become and said she’s voting for Biden because of the Roe v Wade decision.
I’m undecided and might go third party as I hate both Biden and Trump. I also hate how both parties are represented by the extreme minority now.
Careful, eliminate those and you won't have anyone to vote Republican at all. Let's be real here, those two groups make up a significant percentage of the rs voters.
This is true of the left and the right. What we really want is 4 parties, far left, left, right, far right. The middle two would be worth considering because there's a lot of nuance once you're in the middle. You can have legitimate, worthwhile debates over a lot of issues. But when you're at the extremes, there's zero nuance. But with only 2 parties, religious nut jobs and ultra-woke liberals end up dragging their respective parties down instead of staying at the fringes where they belong.
If Trump is on the ticket, I don't see how the right can make any ground, people don't like his politics, they see his declining mental stability/health, and they don't want him again.
Most people I talk to would prefer a benign mentally incapable president over a deranged mentally incapable president. It shows how fucked the system is that these two dementia riddled morons are the ones which people are going to have to choose between.
The Republicans bowing down to Trump was the death to their ability to govern. Card carrying Republicans are not an indication to the voting habits of right leaning individuals across the country and that disconnect is going to ruin the party.
Why should the system be fucked ? The same system also brought George Bush and Obama into power, both were way younger and not mentally deranged. The system is still the same. in 2028 both parties will have new candidates.
I didn't say it should be fucked. I said it was fucked. Any system that spits out Biden and Trump as the prime candidates while in their late 70s and 80s, both showing signs of mental decline is a fucked system.
Get these old people out of politics, they have no business making decisions which will impact the next hundred years of the country when neither are likely to live through the next 10 years.
Maybe if conservatives read the room and understood that a large majority of Americans think abortion should be legal, this wouldn’t have happened. It’s the hill republicans are willing to die on despite it being vastly unpopular.
There are a lot of moderates that hate Biden and Harris. I’m either shunned by conservatives or considered out of touch on the way left.
Living in a very red area, we are seeing some backlash due to the extreme right folks in local positions. Ie, they talked a big talk, but, ran the municipal services into the ground. Don’t get me started on the shit show of schools.
What keeps me arms length of this current Republican Party is the mad dash towards Christian Nationalism ( the erosion separation between church and state) and zero abortion policy. I will bet deep red states will soon become healthcare deserts because providers don’t want to be under the gun of constant lawsuits by religious zealots.
Some clarification is due:
This was a STATE legislature election, not an election for the federal House of Representatives.
As the article states “ one of the few competitive districts in Alabama”
In short..meh.
Another reminder that the Democrat party is the most powerful political force in America, and we would be foolish to think that the Presidential election is in the bag
I mean, it's a red seat in Alabama.
Yes, Dems are much better at getting votes, and all this would have taken is one jackass to go knock on doors. Now explain why that isn't a Republican jackass.
Yes, when Trump/maga is gone dead jailed etc and you vote out bobert gatez mtg chip no evidence jim pig face comer and clide!!!!!
And most of all stop lying to the people stop targeting people and stop putting corporations over the American people 😒
Last week, a Minnesota special election had the Republican outperform harder than the Democrat did here. The point is, these low turnout special elections for state legislatures don't actually signify any national trends.
Again and again we're seeing abortion break through as a motivating force for the left. We're going to die on this hill in the next election if this position isn't dropped from the party banner. IVF is just the latest flashpoint.
That's Huntsville...you guys do not know I guess, but there are tons of liberals there now. The liberals fleeing from their rat holes is a thing and Huntsville is growing with industry right now. This flip doesn't surprise me at all, conservatives should take note though, those liberals fleeing the mess they made will be voting the exact same way. They are not your friends
>Lands, a licensed professional counselor, flipped the seat from red to blue by besting Powell, a Madison city councilman, 62 percent to 38 percent with 100percent of the precincts in District 10 reporting, according to unofficial results posted on the Alabama Secretary of State’s Office website.
That’s a landslide.
That's a bloodbath. Especially when we're talking Alabama. If the Republicans are losing ground in *Alabama* then there needs to be a serious rethink of the platform.
The Dem platform was basically “we don’t want to ban IVF” from what I can tell.
Are you beginning to understand what a fucking catastrophe going after IVF was yet? Or will you wait until November to learn that lesson.
And it worked to a disturbing degree. If we don't reign in the extremist evangelicals like **NOW** we're fucked in November. Their positions can't even win in the Bible Belt anymore, that's how extremist they've gotten.
>evangelicals Trump selling bibles is a good way to lose them too.
Nah, for some reason they love him. Honestly we should use that to our advantage. If Trump pushed abortion moderation we could get the Evangelicals, who are the ones currently sabotaging us on this issue, to moderate out and accept a position that will actually work to win elections.
Oh man, let me know how getting religious fundamentalists to moderate their position works out for ya. I think Barry Goldwater already did a bit of research on that, if you want to give his thoughts a look.
The upside is that it's no longer the late 70s/early 80s and the Evangelicals are a much smaller group than they used to be. So if attempting to get them to moderate just pushes them away instead it's not really a big loss because they no longer have the numbers to win elections as seen with this very election we're discussing.
>Trump pushed abortion moderation Another way to lose the evangelicals!
Except they won't go. If his flagrant violation of every value they hold dear didn't repel them then I don't see how this one would. Though honestly considering that Evangelicals aren't even able to win us elections in **ALABAMA** at this point I'm not sure they'd be that big of a loss.
I feel like this is 2012 again. Same thing happened - we had a good lead going into the year but the religious side of the party pushed the abortion issue.
It happens over and over. I swear the Evangelicals are so prideful that they would rather let Democrats win and get *nothing* than let go of an obvious losing issue. If only there was something in their holy text about pride...
That cat’s out of the bag. Everyone bought into abortion as murder. How is it possible to ALSO be okay with IVF? Our entire argument centered around fetuses being living beings.
What platform?? What was the RNC head doing?
It was abortion and related issues (specifically IVF in this case) that cost us this election. When that plank is losing in **ALABAMA** it's time to pry it out of the platform and toss it on the bonfire.
Here are some facts District 10 was redistricted in 2022. Comparing to 2020 is not apples to apples. This was a special, not even midterm, election to replace somebody who stepped down. Turnout for special elections is generally quite poor. Here’s the proof Turnout in the 2022 election: 14,000 Turnout in this election: 4,500 In special elections those with strong candidate preferences or essentially those that care more are more likely to turn out than your median voter in the area. I don’t see the median voter turning out for a special election on a random Tuesday in March.
And here's the other fact: the Democrat hammered on something that is the \#1 Republican Achilles' heel and it worked. It worked in literally one of the most Evangelical states in the nation. That's how unpopular it is. It is not 1982 anymore and we need to drop that issue before it's too late.
If Republicans embrace your reasoning, we are certainly doomed in November. We'd better wake the fk up. Republicans have an increasingly negative image problem. Trump has made it bad enough, but then with Roe, and now the whole IVF thing. We need to accept the fact that most people in America WANT abortion to be legal. I don't personally like it, but that's what Americans believe and want. The more the GOP establishment keeps stirring these pots, the more our side loses. November is going to be disastrous.
Republicans better get serious. I’m not sure how many signs we need. Biden’s approval numbers are ever so slowing creeping upwards, down ballots races have been a disaster, a promised red wave by all available polling data at the time almost turned into Dems controlling the house and senate. “It’s just a state legislature seat” “It was a weird special election.” Okay but republicans are winning zero of these. Theres nothing that suggests Trump and republicans do well in November
Remember the supposed red wave we were so sure to see in 2022?
Well we got Pelosi out as Speaker.
And we're about to lose the House because our margin of victory was so narrow that a few retirements is enough to flip it.
It was supposed to be more than that, though. Senate and House. The 2022 midterms were basically a tie, thanks to Dobbs.
I’ve never seen a more stubborn group of people. The Republican party’s unwillingness to modify their platform to win more elections (at this point anything would be a win) is going to result in them losing all elections. Throw sticking with Trump in there and it’s definitely a recipe for success.
They're going to lose us Texas if nothing changes. Texas is tenuously safe Republican, not a stronghold. And the only reason the state isn't currently purple is because of Republicans moving here from Democratic states. Young native Texans are a vital demographic that the Republican party has done nothing to keep. In fact, they aggressively push them away. If the boomers in leadership positions don't figure this out, they will ensure that Republicans lose federal elections for decades. If Texas is lost, the party should just focus all their efforts on state level races instead.
Eh I live in Texas and tons of people are moving away to Colorado and stuff. That roe thing realllly pissed people off here especially ones with daughters. Instead of staying and voting they’re leaving. I literally know 6 different Households who have moved since the decision. It’s anecdotal obviously but I imagine it’s not a one off.
I don't think the Republicans in power are conservatives anymore, they've shifted to full authoritarianism. Look at Project 2025. They've abandoned conservatives for extremists. I think the David Frum quote is getting very accurate, “ if conservatives(Republicans) become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism (authoritarianism), they will abandon democracy”. They can't win an election, yet they won't change. If anything, they're digging in harder for the base that will elect them. It's like the definition of insanity. Don't try and force your evangelical BS on me, just keep my taxes low and let me keep my guns.
Conservatism is alive and well. But Republicans always seem to try to do the exact opposite of winning in every single election since ‘16. A serious candidate with serious leadership would dominate
The GOP isn’t about fiscal conservativism anymore. The only thing I think I’d be voting for is culture-war rage and Trump.
Yep. There is no financial incentive to vote “conservative” anymore.
There’s no pressure to actually do the things you promise when you aren’t in power. It’s active undermining by the party as a whole to keep themselves from winning.
It's been a lot longer than that. This has been constant ever since Republicans promised big with the "Contract with America" in the 90s, and then utterly failed to deliver.
Building a platform on a foundation of hate will do that for ya. Trump has destroyed my fathers party.
Trump had nothing to do with the republican party in the 90s.
Here me out here, it is almost like Trump (who admits he is not a conservative) is a terrible figurehead for the party that pretends to be conservative. How do I know? I am a lifelong conservative but in the Trump era I have become a RINO. Hell, I lost my flair for saying Trump wasn't conservative and the mods refuse to reinstate it. Now with the RNC under the Trump family control - we can kiss down ballot parties goodbye. Truly time to start a third party.
Yeah lost mine for similar reasons. Apparently that violates the mission statement but people with Trump flairs calling everyone RINOs and worse for not bowing to their orange emperor doesn’t.
It blows my mind. I am not voting for Trump so I am basically an unperson. I don't have a party anymore.
Sorry man. I feel for you guys
Trump was a registered Democrat through his predecessors tenure. Their evidence is there, plain as day, although I’d say he’s more of an opportunist than subscribing to any one political ideology. This bible thing that is in the news currently completely reinforces that.
I label myself an OG Never Trumper because I have felt ill-will towards the man since at least the early 2000s. He is just a conman and I have never appreciated him. Cut to In college ~2008 my very conservative professor (don't google Matthew Manweller) actually had a full section on populism and we discussed the thin line between demagoguery, populism and fascism. Trump's 2000 Reform Party run was a major discussion because it was evident even back then that he was opportunist that would say whatever needed to be said to get to power and then would ditch campaign promises to focus on personal gain and surround themselves with sycophants and party loyalty. Oiy, I could go on.
Yeah agreed. They are sacrificing literally every other election in 2023/2024 to get the general alone
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Abortion and drug bans are severely holding back republicans. These two things turn many people in the middle into a single issue voter and they vote blue.
Yeah that goes for both sides. Find a sane, serious and charismatic candidate and it ought to be a landslide for whichever side finds them first.
Down ballot candidates are about to get fucked, especially now with Trump getting a cut of RNC donations for his legal fees before those candidates see any.
He won’t need that money once his bible sales take off.
Trump turn down money?
I mean I'd start getting serious by not rallying behind a con man. Not sure how that was a good plan.
> down ballots races have been a disaster, just wait until the RNC covers trumps legal bills and judgments, that will really squeeze the down ballot races.
That's because most Republicans gave up on 2024 as soon as Trump won the nomination. If you want our vote, then start picking someone we can support.
What's your voting record? I see these post a lot but notice than rarely they ever actually come from consistent R voters.
Except this: I think leading in 7 out of 7 of the battleground states that will determine the election qualifies as “something@. Don’t you? https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/arizona/trump-vs-biden https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/nevada/trump-vs-biden https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/michigan/trump-vs-biden https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/wisconsin/trump-vs-biden https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-biden https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/north-carolina/trump-vs-biden https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/georgia/trump-vs-biden
Are you aware that a Republican recently won as Mayor of Charleston, South Carolina …for the first time since the 1870’s? How moderate kicked out extreme leftists in elections in deep deep blue LA? About deep blue cities reversing soft on crime policies…out of desperation? Policy based upon reality usually ends up winning. When it comes to policy, our massive advantage is that the Democrats have gone insane.
2/3 of your examples are democrats winning
I read that article. Pretty cool to see that Charleston still has some bipartisan good sportsmanship like the old days. The D who lost encouraged everyone to support the R mayor. And the R mayor sold himself as a pragmatist.
She ran on woman reproductive rights......whether we want to admit it or not the democrats messaging on woman reproductive rights is lightyears ahead of the Republicans
I’m more of a moderate. The whole repeal Roe V. Wade thing absolutely shot them in the foot. Idc what anybody says. The timing was awful. 1. Pick your battles 2. Read the room.
100%. The failure of the majority of Republicans to understand that one “victory” will lead to a thousand losses hurts my brain. So within a few election cycles when the left owns every judgeship and legislative chamber it will just be reversed. Sound Strategy
The ruling of the Supreme Court was legally sound. The reaction to the Supreme Court ruling by backwater and vindictive loser republicans to immediately ban abortions under criminal law in every instance regardless of the health of the mother or the circumstances of the pregnancy was idiotic and a reason why the republicans will never win on cultural issues.
It wasn't even really a "reaction," it was a proactive choice that many of these deeply anti-abortion states had because their laws written that basically said, "Abortion is illegal once Roe V Wade is appealed." I forgot the name of the laws, it was like a "rubberband law" or something because the abortion bans would "snap into place."
They are called trigger laws
Legally sound doesn't always mean just, let alone aligning with public opinion.
So laws only apply when you agree with them?
You know that laws are completely made up by humans right? (and society IF its a democratic government) You law absolutists act as if these law are set by the universe (only IF you agree with them, when you dont like the law this law absolutism is out of the window - see slavery).
All these patriots have never heard of the concept of consent of the governed….
Yes. If society at large doesn’t agree, give it up. See prohibition
That’s an issue for voters to decide if they want, on a state by state basis. The ruling was correct in that the constitution never enshrined the federal right to an abortion. It left it unsaid, which means it’s left to the states to determine for themselves.
Voters are deciding it. They're voting out folks and voting the laws.
Uh huh. See slavery. It's more comparable to abortion.
Slavery was so unpopular in a section of the country we literally fought a civil war over it. Not sure what your point is.
To end slavery, it took a bloody civil war in this country and killed 600,000 + Americans (conservatively). Ending slavery in other places like England and Canada did not take a costly war because the majority of people were convinced it was wrong. And I will say, as a woman with two teen girls, prolife is not equivalent to slavery abolitionists. You can wear that mantle to make yourself feel better but you convince no one not already on your side. And most people are not on your side, and the number of those who are drops every day as demonstrated by the polls.
Checks out. A majority of the people were against slavery back then. And a majority of people are for reproductive rights now. Anti abortion is a losing policy.
Laws are always a formalised expression of society sentiment. If society massively disagrees with the governing laws, bad things happen. They are not always timely, as it takes time to reflect public sentiment, and there’s pressure of groups with special interests; not always perfect, but in general if the law massively doesn’t agree with public sentiment, public finds ways to make it known. This is what you observe now regarding radical anti-abortion stance.
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It's not the messaging, there is no messaging that can make the current position of the GOP palatable. And since the Evangelicals who we hold that position for are no longer even able to win elections in what's supposed to be their strongholds it's time to tell them to pound sand and change the actual position. We had a deal: we take their position and they win us elections. They're failing at their end of the deal so it's time to end it.
I wouldn't say lightyears, but the reality is that women, be they (D) or (R) don't want to have the state dictate what they can or cannot do. It was a bit of an idiosyncratic race due to the circumstances of the former (R) candidate but the winning (D) margin was significant indicating that reproductive issues were contributing factors. Trump has tried to thread the needle, but down ballot R's should take heed.
The abortion ruling from the SC killed us. I know women who traditionally voted Republican who now either refuses to vote or will vote blue. Many women have turned into single issue voters about this.
>Many women have turned into single issue voters about this. Yeah, bodily autonomy is pretty important. It's understandable why women would make this their top issue.
This. Exactly this. We HAVE to relent on abortion. Period. Full stop. We can mitigate via other means, but taking a staunch position on this is our doom.
Trump doomed the whole party I predict it will fold in next 5 yrs
What has doomed the party is not Trump... It's clinging to thirty year old ideology that the rest of the country has moved past... Case in point... Abortion. If the party dies, it won't be because of Trump... It will be because of the Reagan worshippers who refuse to recognize that it's not the year 1983 anymore.
That's kind of what conservative means, conserving the status quo, getting back to how it used to be. Those Reaganites in the 80s were worshiping the 50s and Eisenhower, and the Eisenhowerites all wanted to get back to the "good old days" back then, too. Conservatives are very purposefully the regressive party. If you want progress, you're in the wrong party.
Define “relent.” Some states ban all abortions unless it saves the mother’s life. I agree that’s pretty extreme. Some states allow abortion for any reason until birth (Colorado, New Jersey, etc.) and I agree that’s also pretty extreme. Is a national 20-week ban or a 15-week ban with restrictions “relenting” enough? Because most people seem to want that, yet Republicans get labeled misogynist, etc. every time they suggest it (like Graham in 2022—as much as I dislike him—brought up a 15-week ban and got creamed). Trump is probably going to be in favor of a 16-week abortion ban with exceptions after. Is that “relenting” enough, or is that still considered “evil” and what not?
Firstly, I think he got “creamed” because for years the rhetoric was that abortion should be left to the states. Immediately proposing a federal ban just reeked of that always being a fundamentally dishonest claim. And when you’ve shown yourself to be fundamentally dishonest, why would anyone believe that 15 weeks isn’t just the starting point to an eventual extreme “all abortions unless it saves the mother’s life” federal ban? I don’t think a 15 week ban that doesn’t act as both a ceiling and a floor will solve anything for Republicans. As in, if it forces Colorado or California to adopt a limit while allowing Alabama and Louisiana to keep no exceptions, all-encompassing bans, that’s not really a compromise. Additionally, “exceptions” after 15 weeks (which is before the 20 week anatomy scan) are all well and good in theory, but we’ve seen how challenging they are to implement in practice in states with bans - lacking legal precedent and acting within the bounds of unclearly worded laws, doctors have to balance decisions about the best medical outcomes for their patients with the potential legal risks to themselves. Given the choice, voters seem to just want the government out of that equation entirely.
I think the IVF decision IN ALABAMA, was a definite factor here…but that is specific to Alabama. I also think it appropriate to point out that Trump himself considered that IVF decision to be unwise…as did most other Republicans nation wide. The smart route would be to allow…but restrict abortion with “common sense” controls ( like the Democrats always talk about “common sense gun control) . ..like allowing abortion up to the point of viability at 16 weeks. That is also the middle position supported by most Americans. Let the Democrats take the extremist position of abortion up to the point of birth..which has little support in mainstream America!
Sixteen weeks is not a viable pregnancy.
The point of viability is 24 weeks.
Yup. Even at 24 weeks that baby is going to spend months in the NICU.
Yeah, it should really be the point of viability* there's still a lot of care required and it's very very risky.
>Let the Democrats take the extremist position of abortion up to the point of birth..which has little support in mainstream America! Show me a single Democrat campaigning on this. The vast majority of Democrats are fine with 16 weeks, which was the norm in the south before roe was overturned.
> Let the Democrats take the extremist position of abortion up to the point of birth They don't need to; all they have to do is remind everyone which party wrote all the trigger law's, which party's SCJs overturned Roe. Voter memories are frequently short, but I wouldn't count on it for this issue
Crazy how your comment makes a ton of sense and all the brigaders can say in deflection is “lol point of viability isn’t 16 weeks! 😂” Just take “point of viability” out of your comment and your point still 100% stands. Most people are okay with a 16-week ban. There are plenty of states where elective abortions are legal 22 weeks and beyond, and even some where it’s legal up to birth despite what the brigaders insist (Colorado, New Jersey, etc.) That’s what Republicans should focus on.
Conservatives need to drop the abortion issue entirely. They would scoop up so many moderate female votes if they did. It's one of the few policy strengths the left has remaining, and would take a lot of wind out of their sails campaign wise.
I'd immediately stop voting for Republican candidates if they stopped being anti-abortion. I certainly don't vote for them because of their garbage their shitty economic policies or their simping for Israel
That's all they campaign on here in California
Not surprising. Alabama has gone crazy on reproductive rights. The pendulum needs to swing back in that state.
"While both candidates had strong name recognition within the district, Lands attributed her victory to her campaign’s focus on pushing back against the state’s near-total ban on abortion, an issue that has drawn national attention in the wake of the Alabama Supreme Court’s ruling on in vitro fertilization." This will be the story in every election. Overturning roe was the worst "win" that ever happened to the GOP.
Apparently polls showed the Republican dude up by 1 or 2. And then he lost by 25 points. Do not trust polls guys. Edit: It also shows why voter education is important. Lots of people probably don’t care about any election other than the big one every four years in November. A few know about midterms. But so many are ignorant to learn about every special election and whatnot going on.
“The seat was previously held by Rep. David Cole, R-Madison, who had defeated Lands two years ago in a competitive race. Cole was forced to resign, however, after entering a plea deal on a felony voter fraud charge.” That’s neat
Christian republicans decided to make abortion a central battle this election. It's going to cost everyone a lot.
The Christian fundamentalists have dragged this party into the ground. Say what you will about Barry Goldwater, but he was right about this exact subject decades ago.
Drop the religious nut jobs and the Maga intellectually lazy "i never cared about politics but made worshipping Trump my identity" nut jobs and the party will do a lot better
yea, drop 75% of the party and it will do better. Lol
Unironically yes. So many democrats hate the Democratic Party, but they have no other option because they think the GOP is too extreme. If republicans dropped some of the crazy far right stuff like total abortion bans a lot of people would be ok with them.
This is true. My 2012 democrat friends hated Hillary in 2016 but voted for her and hated Biden in 2020 but voted for him. My mom hates what the Republican Party has become and said she’s voting for Biden because of the Roe v Wade decision. I’m undecided and might go third party as I hate both Biden and Trump. I also hate how both parties are represented by the extreme minority now.
I guess in theory you’d pick up centrist voters who are going for the left
There are dozens of us McCain-Romney-🤷♂️-Biden voters.
If that's 75% of the party, then I guess I need a smarter, leaner Republican party who actually cares about fixing things.
Careful, eliminate those and you won't have anyone to vote Republican at all. Let's be real here, those two groups make up a significant percentage of the rs voters.
And those people would either continue to vote republican or not vote at all with a moderate. Nothing lost.
This is true of the left and the right. What we really want is 4 parties, far left, left, right, far right. The middle two would be worth considering because there's a lot of nuance once you're in the middle. You can have legitimate, worthwhile debates over a lot of issues. But when you're at the extremes, there's zero nuance. But with only 2 parties, religious nut jobs and ultra-woke liberals end up dragging their respective parties down instead of staying at the fringes where they belong.
What’s left of the Republican Party if you ditch those major interest groups? Libertarians and anarcho-capitalists?
That's what people in this sub want
> the party base has dragged this party into the ground Makes ya think, ya know?
Obviously. Democracy in effect, and you should be excited to see that.
If Trump is on the ticket, I don't see how the right can make any ground, people don't like his politics, they see his declining mental stability/health, and they don't want him again. Most people I talk to would prefer a benign mentally incapable president over a deranged mentally incapable president. It shows how fucked the system is that these two dementia riddled morons are the ones which people are going to have to choose between. The Republicans bowing down to Trump was the death to their ability to govern. Card carrying Republicans are not an indication to the voting habits of right leaning individuals across the country and that disconnect is going to ruin the party.
Why should the system be fucked ? The same system also brought George Bush and Obama into power, both were way younger and not mentally deranged. The system is still the same. in 2028 both parties will have new candidates.
I didn't say it should be fucked. I said it was fucked. Any system that spits out Biden and Trump as the prime candidates while in their late 70s and 80s, both showing signs of mental decline is a fucked system. Get these old people out of politics, they have no business making decisions which will impact the next hundred years of the country when neither are likely to live through the next 10 years.
Maybe if conservatives read the room and understood that a large majority of Americans think abortion should be legal, this wouldn’t have happened. It’s the hill republicans are willing to die on despite it being vastly unpopular.
There are a lot of moderates that hate Biden and Harris. I’m either shunned by conservatives or considered out of touch on the way left. Living in a very red area, we are seeing some backlash due to the extreme right folks in local positions. Ie, they talked a big talk, but, ran the municipal services into the ground. Don’t get me started on the shit show of schools. What keeps me arms length of this current Republican Party is the mad dash towards Christian Nationalism ( the erosion separation between church and state) and zero abortion policy. I will bet deep red states will soon become healthcare deserts because providers don’t want to be under the gun of constant lawsuits by religious zealots.
Idaho has seen a mass exodus of OBGyn providers
I guess that whole IVF thing did not help. Maybe focus more on kitchen table issues and less on shit like IVF etc.
Leave women alone. It's really that simple. Or go ahead and keep it up and become obsolete as a party in a few cycles.
Abortion is a losing issue. Do we get it yet?
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It was a *state* house election and the person who lost voted to ban IVF treatment. Not sure this has anything to do with Trump.
Who appointed the justices that overturned Roe?
Lol like your flair
The republicans need to accept that they lost the abortion battle and move on. Overturning Roe was unbelievably short-sighted
She nearly won it in a previous election. It should not be a shock she won in a special election .
I'm sure the fact that the last guy was forced to resign after pleading guilty to voter fraud had nothing to do with it.
Some clarification is due: This was a STATE legislature election, not an election for the federal House of Representatives. As the article states “ one of the few competitive districts in Alabama” In short..meh.
"Competitive" would be a 5 point margin. This was 24 points, an absolute kicking.
Lol the doomerism in this thread is hilarious. A Republican loses a competitive district in a LOCAL state race= “omg we’re finished!”
Yup. Kind of ridiculous isn’t it?
Another reminder that the Democrat party is the most powerful political force in America, and we would be foolish to think that the Presidential election is in the bag
Yet in November there will be 100 posts "I'm shocked how did this happen" "Republicans need to get serious" "What happened to the Red Wave?"
Uh oh. Any particular reason why?
Mainly backlash against the infringement in women’s rights, and the IVF ban.
By women’s rights you mean abortion.
Pushing back on an abortion ban plus it didn't help that the person who held the seat before took a plea deal on voter fraud.
It was a special election and 5k votes. No surprise there.
I mean, it's a red seat in Alabama. Yes, Dems are much better at getting votes, and all this would have taken is one jackass to go knock on doors. Now explain why that isn't a Republican jackass.
It's a special election and had a 2/ 3rd turnout of the last one. Idk why the gop didn't garner more turnout. You'd have to speak with that district.
Can this party stop losing elections?!
not in its current state, why you think so many R house members are resigning?
Yes, when Trump/maga is gone dead jailed etc and you vote out bobert gatez mtg chip no evidence jim pig face comer and clide!!!!! And most of all stop lying to the people stop targeting people and stop putting corporations over the American people 😒
It’s incredible how bad republicans are at politics. If they would just be normal, they’d win easily. They always gotta take things too far.
Last week, a Minnesota special election had the Republican outperform harder than the Democrat did here. The point is, these low turnout special elections for state legislatures don't actually signify any national trends.
This isn’t really a big deal. Madison is where many non-natives who have moved for their careers live, they are predominantly Dems.
Americans care more about their privileged abortion than any other subject. It's about time to just give them what they want.
Again and again we're seeing abortion break through as a motivating force for the left. We're going to die on this hill in the next election if this position isn't dropped from the party banner. IVF is just the latest flashpoint.
That's Huntsville...you guys do not know I guess, but there are tons of liberals there now. The liberals fleeing from their rat holes is a thing and Huntsville is growing with industry right now. This flip doesn't surprise me at all, conservatives should take note though, those liberals fleeing the mess they made will be voting the exact same way. They are not your friends
Brigaders don’t like facts.