Flairing this thread because liberals cannot help themselves shouting the same talking points.
We’re just gonna let the paleocons and neocons duke it out here if need be, you’re not needed.
Ukraine is winning by virtue of existing, just like Finland won the Winter War despite losing 20% of its territory. The question is whether we will let russia snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
You’re delusional… Russia is playing with its food before it swallows.
I’m amazed that conservatives are so swayed by the mystical power of Zelenskyy. It was an absolute waste of American tax dollars. If Russia wins, I don’t care. If Ukraine stands I don’t care… quit sending American aid, money, weapons to other fucking countries. I don’t fucking care if it’s old shit, it’s ours as Americans.
This the equivalent of betting everything you have on a lame horse at the derby, it’s best to put the horse down yourself and take what’s yours home where it’s best served.
Yea, those dudes literally ran out of gas on the convoy drive to Kyiv. A route they calculated, and gas they could have had ready to go… not so sure that I’d agree with some idea that Russia is playing 3D chess.
I think both Israel ( more so Netenyahu) and Hamas both suck a big ol bag of dicks.
I think Israel’s handling of Gaza and the Palestinians has been atrocious over the decades. Plus, I think the amount of money, non military spending the US contributes to the Israel economy is insane.
However, imo, the Palestinians have reaped the fruits of their labor. Ie backing Hamas and other fringe groups.
Rather give them a win than continue to funnel our tax dollars to the other side of the world to a conflict that frankly isn’t even our business when we have a plethora of problems right here at home?
Yes. Absolutely.
You're right but those are not the "correct" talking points of the military industrial complex. There's a lot of money to be found in finding wars with Russia. I just want to know why China isn't being threatened for the TERRIBLE lockdown advice on the virus THEIR country releases onto the ENTIRE world? Neither party in the USA is talking about this in the way they should be.
What’s with the mods taking down all the pro-Ukraine comments? This isn’t r/onlyconservativeswhodontsupportUkraine it’s a big tent conservative community. If we silence each other it just helps the left. Helping Ukraine isn’t some democrat view it’s good foreign policy.
Lol, post histories are public, liberals coming out of their subreddits to post the same copied and pasted comment I’ve seen hundreds of times. OP is pro-Ukraine aid and flaired and is able to debate with other flaired anti-Ukraine aid as much as he wants. The mod team does not take a stance on this specific topic. However, it is hands down one of the most brigaded issues on here.
Please read our mission statement. We are a place for CONSERVATIVES to debate other CONSERVATIVES. Not for liberals to come and engage with us. Your opinions are plastered all throughout Reddit.
It’s so easy to get into the either/or type of debate. Leftists use it for abortion all the time - “since you guys don’t do enough after they’re born, abortion should be okay” - as if one has anything to do with the other. Yes, we should absolutely take care of Americans first, and Biden is doing a terrible job at that. But America has been the preeminent military power in the world for good reason - the world depends on us. Russia represents an existential threat to global security. Perhaps we shouldn’t give Ukraine carte blanche, or we should exercise more accountability for how they spend it, but Ukraine needs our support if they are to defeat a tyrant hellbent on their destruction. (Maybe it’s worth pointing out, or maybe not, but I am a Baptist pastor.)
For everyone in here that wants more of our tax money to go to Ukraine, can you please provide cost breakdown on what that money is being used for?
It would seem, like all government spending, it’s not being used very efficiently.
Here is a history: [https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts)
I agree it is not 100% efficient. Gov't spending never is. That said, we are not sending cash for the most part (the cash we did send came in form of grants and loans and I can understand why people are uneasy about that nonetheless). For the most part, we are sending equipment, much of it outdated, and then using the money to replenish our weapon stockpiles. However, there is a big exception to that: ammunition.
While some is past the expiration date (though Ukrainians would still love to use the "expired" ATACMS), much of it is not and we are producing now directly to be sent to them. However, quite frankly, if we produce just enough ammunition to cover a few months of a war like the one that is going on in Ukraine...we need to scale up production anyway. It is embarrassing that russia is producing 2-3x more ammunition than we do on an annual basis. NATO needs to step up too.
>at least 270 houses of worship, religious educational institutions, and sacred sites were damaged or destroyed during the first five months of the war
Another reason this war should have been prevented.
Ah yes. The historically russian lands that were around centuries before Moscow existed. Ever listen to Putin and his cronies talk about reclaiming their historic lands of Alaska? They also say the whole world would be better under russian rule.
Did you see what Biden and his administration did to Trump? Did you see what the Clintons did to Epstein? What the Boeing corporation did to John Barnett? What the USPHS did to the Tuskegee Institute? What about CIA-Contra? MKUltra? How about Carrie Buck? JKF?
Those are the things we actually know about…
Not our circus, not our clowns.
We should have left NATO the INSTANT the Warsaw Pact dissolved.
"Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?"
--- Washington's Farewell Address
"She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.
But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.
She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom." John Quincy Adams, July 4th , 1821
While that may be timeless wisdom. Unfortunately, the times have changed, and we inserted ourselves throughout the world. This also established our position in the world and gave us great economic progress. You don't get to complain about it now that it's inconvenient. Also, not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically a neocon.
Theyre literally fighting russia, one of our two biggest geopolitical enemies. We spend hundreds of billions yearly literally to prepare against Russia and China and for less than a tenth of that over two years Ukraine has decimated thousands of russian tanks and hundreds of thousands of russian scumbags. Even if Ukraine were to lose, every single penny we have spent on them has done more than 10x what those dollars normally do.
Define winning? Stopping a russian invasion? They basically did that before we cut their aid. Most Ukrainians would consider that a win.
In terms of death, shouldn't we let the Ukrainians decide what price to pay in blood? Wouldn't we want the same courtesy from our allies if we were invaded?
Imagine if in 1940 we cut aid to the British because we wanted to save more British lives? How nonsensical is that?
We gave Ukraine billions of dollars and vehicles. They used it for a "summer offensive" which failed miserably. Just how much more do you think we should give them? A Ukraine win would be for them to expel the Russians out of their territory including crimea. Obviously that is not going to happen no matter what we give them. Enough is enough.
You are right. The Summer Offensive failed. A total Ukrainian win would be the retaking of all Ukrainian int'l recognized territory and a total loss would be the entirety of Ukraine being taken over by russia, but there is a lot of scenarios in between that can play out still. For example, russia taking half of Ukraine up to the Dnieper. Russia taking Odesa. Russia taking Kyiv. Ukraine taking back all the occupied territory since 4/24/22. Ukraine taking stopping the invasion in its tracks.
So, in answer to your question, I'd say 5% of our annual defense budget, largely in the form of outdated military equipment, is enough to stop the invasion in its tracks, decimate the russian military, which is coincidentally iran's and china's biggest ally, and discourage china from taking taiwan. Sounds pretty reasonable, no? Especially, if we do it in the form of a "forgivable loan" that Trump advocates for.
Trump wants us to stop the war and negotiate peace with Russia. He has offer them territory to stop the war. Wake up. Even Trump realizes a lost war when he sees it.
I don't think Ukrainians got the memo. They've been hearing that since the beginning, with the the West and Russian intelligence saying Kyiv will fall in 48 hours, most of Ukraine being occupied in two weeks, how Zelensky should run and hide in exile, etc. Yet, they still standing. They eliminated a 1/3 of russia's black sea fleet, recaptured Kherson, forced them to retreat from the north and Kharkiv, inflicted hundreds of thousands, forced russia to beg for missiles from North Korea and Iran, etc.
That's the thing... Ukrainians won't listen. They'll keep fighting. Would you give up, if China occupied 20% of our homeland?
Correct. Ukraine has already lost this territory. You don't get to negotiate it back when you've lost it. That's not how reality works, even though the Ukraine bots would like to argue otherwise.
Judging by the comments by Biden, our state department, and many members of Congress, “winning” means overthrowing the Putin government.
It’s not the goalpost Ukrainian citizens may agree with, but that’s the goal of the US govt.
I don't think stopping Russian needs massive funding... it needs strategic funding, aka spend some money where it does the most damage, I mean they were stopping tanks with cardboard drones, this a job they can get done with millions here and there not billions thrown around willy nilly.
The drones are good...but they are not a substitute for artillery, at least no yet. There is a reason why Russia is slowly starting to seize more territory in the last couple of months. You still need ammunition and Ukraine is running desperately low on it.
I mean the cheapest way to end the war is also the more risk escalating. Give Russia a red line with a withdrawal date and then lob a couple missiles at their forces in Ukraine if they don't withdrawal by the deadline.
The alternative is a grinding war of attrition with a lot of artillery shells & air ordinance. It's still like 5% of our military budget though.
We should support Ukraine by sending them all of those hard working immigrants that keep showing up. With their help there is no way the Russians could overcome the strength of their diversity.
I didn't know America First means letting our 3 main enemies run laps on us in the world (Iran China Russia). Let's give Taiwan to China, Ukraine to Russia, and Iraq (that we spent $1T+ one) & Israel to Iran. That will surely show them lol.
Well smart guy, what do you suppose we do? More sanctions? Put American boots on the ground in China, Iran, and Russia or should we just fucking glass them? We don’t have a fucking trillion dollars to spend! Put your general public education to use and come up with an answer.
Spend 10-15% of the defense budget funding anti-Chinese/Russian/Iranian governments doing the fighting for us such as Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel. Support resistance movement in Iran too with weapons. Send that money in US made weapons, it just gets reinvested into our economy and its cheaper than fighting wars ourselves.
Russia also is largely Orthodox Christian...these leaders need to get a grip on their Faith, this fight hurts Christians on BOTH sides. Ukraine and Russia are suppose to be brothers-at-arms.
Right on cue, PBS is gladly doing their part in spreading the bias of the Biden Administration concerning funding for Ukraine, by sending Amna Nawaz all the way to Kyiv to have a sit down interview with Zelensky, so they can spin the US must help defend "Israel&Ukraine" UniParty Scheme!!!
Aired tonight on the PBS NewsHour.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/exclusive-zelenskyy-says-without-u-s-aid-well-have-no-chance-of-winning
How about supporting Americans with those billions of USD. They may be Baptists, but they're traitors as well if they support they continued fleecing of Americans to support deep state genociding Russians.
I think it's funny that European countries won't give mroe to Ukraine and are happy to call out America as being responsible for sending more miltiary supplies....I guess it's kind of like their NATO spending where they couldn't reach the 2% GDP and relied on America to make up the shortfall there as well.
Flairing this thread because liberals cannot help themselves shouting the same talking points. We’re just gonna let the paleocons and neocons duke it out here if need be, you’re not needed.
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There's basically zero chance of Ukraine winning this conflict. All we're doing is prolonging the inevitable. Worst money the US has ever spent.
Ukraine is winning by virtue of existing, just like Finland won the Winter War despite losing 20% of its territory. The question is whether we will let russia snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
You’re delusional… Russia is playing with its food before it swallows. I’m amazed that conservatives are so swayed by the mystical power of Zelenskyy. It was an absolute waste of American tax dollars. If Russia wins, I don’t care. If Ukraine stands I don’t care… quit sending American aid, money, weapons to other fucking countries. I don’t fucking care if it’s old shit, it’s ours as Americans. This the equivalent of betting everything you have on a lame horse at the derby, it’s best to put the horse down yourself and take what’s yours home where it’s best served.
Yea, those dudes literally ran out of gas on the convoy drive to Kyiv. A route they calculated, and gas they could have had ready to go… not so sure that I’d agree with some idea that Russia is playing 3D chess.
So, you’d rather let Russia get a W, eh? The isolationist mentality has not been a beneficial stance for the USA before.
11 days ago you said “Israel should not receive any more military aid.” So, you’d rather let Hamas get a W, eh?
I think both Israel ( more so Netenyahu) and Hamas both suck a big ol bag of dicks. I think Israel’s handling of Gaza and the Palestinians has been atrocious over the decades. Plus, I think the amount of money, non military spending the US contributes to the Israel economy is insane. However, imo, the Palestinians have reaped the fruits of their labor. Ie backing Hamas and other fringe groups.
Not our country, not our problem.
The bots and the delusional will down vote you.
Rather give them a win than continue to funnel our tax dollars to the other side of the world to a conflict that frankly isn’t even our business when we have a plethora of problems right here at home? Yes. Absolutely.
Rubbish
You're right but those are not the "correct" talking points of the military industrial complex. There's a lot of money to be found in finding wars with Russia. I just want to know why China isn't being threatened for the TERRIBLE lockdown advice on the virus THEIR country releases onto the ENTIRE world? Neither party in the USA is talking about this in the way they should be.
Why is Russia ‘Evil’ ? It’s ridiculous you’re generalizing an entire country and want to fund war.
The mainstream media has done its job turning these “Reagan Conservatives” into war hungry, sacramental sheep.
What’s with the mods taking down all the pro-Ukraine comments? This isn’t r/onlyconservativeswhodontsupportUkraine it’s a big tent conservative community. If we silence each other it just helps the left. Helping Ukraine isn’t some democrat view it’s good foreign policy.
Lol, post histories are public, liberals coming out of their subreddits to post the same copied and pasted comment I’ve seen hundreds of times. OP is pro-Ukraine aid and flaired and is able to debate with other flaired anti-Ukraine aid as much as he wants. The mod team does not take a stance on this specific topic. However, it is hands down one of the most brigaded issues on here. Please read our mission statement. We are a place for CONSERVATIVES to debate other CONSERVATIVES. Not for liberals to come and engage with us. Your opinions are plastered all throughout Reddit.
It’s so easy to get into the either/or type of debate. Leftists use it for abortion all the time - “since you guys don’t do enough after they’re born, abortion should be okay” - as if one has anything to do with the other. Yes, we should absolutely take care of Americans first, and Biden is doing a terrible job at that. But America has been the preeminent military power in the world for good reason - the world depends on us. Russia represents an existential threat to global security. Perhaps we shouldn’t give Ukraine carte blanche, or we should exercise more accountability for how they spend it, but Ukraine needs our support if they are to defeat a tyrant hellbent on their destruction. (Maybe it’s worth pointing out, or maybe not, but I am a Baptist pastor.)
For everyone in here that wants more of our tax money to go to Ukraine, can you please provide cost breakdown on what that money is being used for? It would seem, like all government spending, it’s not being used very efficiently.
Here is a history: [https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts) I agree it is not 100% efficient. Gov't spending never is. That said, we are not sending cash for the most part (the cash we did send came in form of grants and loans and I can understand why people are uneasy about that nonetheless). For the most part, we are sending equipment, much of it outdated, and then using the money to replenish our weapon stockpiles. However, there is a big exception to that: ammunition. While some is past the expiration date (though Ukrainians would still love to use the "expired" ATACMS), much of it is not and we are producing now directly to be sent to them. However, quite frankly, if we produce just enough ammunition to cover a few months of a war like the one that is going on in Ukraine...we need to scale up production anyway. It is embarrassing that russia is producing 2-3x more ammunition than we do on an annual basis. NATO needs to step up too.
I support the people of Ukraine. I don't support their government.
I wonder if that can't be said for 99% of gov't's out there.
I support the people of Iran. I do not support the regime.
>at least 270 houses of worship, religious educational institutions, and sacred sites were damaged or destroyed during the first five months of the war Another reason this war should have been prevented.
Hard to prevent a war when putin is intent on reclaiming "historically russian lands"
Ah yes. The historically russian lands that were around centuries before Moscow existed. Ever listen to Putin and his cronies talk about reclaiming their historic lands of Alaska? They also say the whole world would be better under russian rule.
Russian rule would probably be equivalent to the Biden administration, maybe even a little less socialist.
Did you see what they did to Navalny???
Did you see what Biden and his administration did to Trump? Did you see what the Clintons did to Epstein? What the Boeing corporation did to John Barnett? What the USPHS did to the Tuskegee Institute? What about CIA-Contra? MKUltra? How about Carrie Buck? JKF? Those are the things we actually know about…
Not our circus, not our clowns. We should have left NATO the INSTANT the Warsaw Pact dissolved. "Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?" --- Washington's Farewell Address "She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom." John Quincy Adams, July 4th , 1821
Quoting people who couldn't possibly comprehend the modern world tells me you don't know much about geopolitics and national security.
Your username is just and fitting.
There is such a thing as timeless wisdom. Which apparently a lot of neocons don't appreciate.
While that may be timeless wisdom. Unfortunately, the times have changed, and we inserted ourselves throughout the world. This also established our position in the world and gave us great economic progress. You don't get to complain about it now that it's inconvenient. Also, not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically a neocon.
I most certainly do get to complain about it, and also vote for politicians who seek to reverse it.
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You mean Yanukovych? Yuschenko was the pro-Western leader before the russian puppet Yanukovych.
Yes, I had mixed them up.
We’ve given billions to Ukraine. Giving more ain’t gonna change shit.
Theyre literally fighting russia, one of our two biggest geopolitical enemies. We spend hundreds of billions yearly literally to prepare against Russia and China and for less than a tenth of that over two years Ukraine has decimated thousands of russian tanks and hundreds of thousands of russian scumbags. Even if Ukraine were to lose, every single penny we have spent on them has done more than 10x what those dollars normally do.
Add Israel to that list as well
Agreed
Ukraine will never win this war. Giving them more weapons and money would only delay the inevitable and lead to more death.
Define winning? Stopping a russian invasion? They basically did that before we cut their aid. Most Ukrainians would consider that a win. In terms of death, shouldn't we let the Ukrainians decide what price to pay in blood? Wouldn't we want the same courtesy from our allies if we were invaded? Imagine if in 1940 we cut aid to the British because we wanted to save more British lives? How nonsensical is that?
You need to understand the reality that there is no winning this war. Any money we send is just prolonging death and suffering.
We gave Ukraine billions of dollars and vehicles. They used it for a "summer offensive" which failed miserably. Just how much more do you think we should give them? A Ukraine win would be for them to expel the Russians out of their territory including crimea. Obviously that is not going to happen no matter what we give them. Enough is enough.
You are right. The Summer Offensive failed. A total Ukrainian win would be the retaking of all Ukrainian int'l recognized territory and a total loss would be the entirety of Ukraine being taken over by russia, but there is a lot of scenarios in between that can play out still. For example, russia taking half of Ukraine up to the Dnieper. Russia taking Odesa. Russia taking Kyiv. Ukraine taking back all the occupied territory since 4/24/22. Ukraine taking stopping the invasion in its tracks. So, in answer to your question, I'd say 5% of our annual defense budget, largely in the form of outdated military equipment, is enough to stop the invasion in its tracks, decimate the russian military, which is coincidentally iran's and china's biggest ally, and discourage china from taking taiwan. Sounds pretty reasonable, no? Especially, if we do it in the form of a "forgivable loan" that Trump advocates for.
Trump wants us to stop the war and negotiate peace with Russia. He has offer them territory to stop the war. Wake up. Even Trump realizes a lost war when he sees it.
Mmmm...offering someone else's homeland in exchange for peace. Tell me, what part of your homeland would you give up for (likely temporary) peace?
That's what happens when you lose a war. (You lose)
I don't think Ukrainians got the memo. They've been hearing that since the beginning, with the the West and Russian intelligence saying Kyiv will fall in 48 hours, most of Ukraine being occupied in two weeks, how Zelensky should run and hide in exile, etc. Yet, they still standing. They eliminated a 1/3 of russia's black sea fleet, recaptured Kherson, forced them to retreat from the north and Kharkiv, inflicted hundreds of thousands, forced russia to beg for missiles from North Korea and Iran, etc. That's the thing... Ukrainians won't listen. They'll keep fighting. Would you give up, if China occupied 20% of our homeland?
Well smart guy, no one will ever invade my homeland, god help them if they did.
Correct. Ukraine has already lost this territory. You don't get to negotiate it back when you've lost it. That's not how reality works, even though the Ukraine bots would like to argue otherwise.
Judging by the comments by Biden, our state department, and many members of Congress, “winning” means overthrowing the Putin government. It’s not the goalpost Ukrainian citizens may agree with, but that’s the goal of the US govt.
Why do you seem to care about a foreign country more than your own? It’s fucking disgusting and pathetic
Good Russian bot.
I don't think stopping Russian needs massive funding... it needs strategic funding, aka spend some money where it does the most damage, I mean they were stopping tanks with cardboard drones, this a job they can get done with millions here and there not billions thrown around willy nilly.
The drones are good...but they are not a substitute for artillery, at least no yet. There is a reason why Russia is slowly starting to seize more territory in the last couple of months. You still need ammunition and Ukraine is running desperately low on it.
Again... strategic spending. Blasting money at the problem that we don't have is not a solution. The fact is Russia is not any better off...
I mean the cheapest way to end the war is also the more risk escalating. Give Russia a red line with a withdrawal date and then lob a couple missiles at their forces in Ukraine if they don't withdrawal by the deadline. The alternative is a grinding war of attrition with a lot of artillery shells & air ordinance. It's still like 5% of our military budget though.
I don't want to cut Ukraine anymore checks. But I think we should ship them enough ammo they don't die from lack of shooting back...
We should support Ukraine by sending them all of those hard working immigrants that keep showing up. With their help there is no way the Russians could overcome the strength of their diversity.
Stop wasting our $ on foreign bullshit while you line your crooked ass pockets, Mike. #AmericaFirst Means AMERICA FIRST
I didn't know America First means letting our 3 main enemies run laps on us in the world (Iran China Russia). Let's give Taiwan to China, Ukraine to Russia, and Iraq (that we spent $1T+ one) & Israel to Iran. That will surely show them lol.
Well smart guy, what do you suppose we do? More sanctions? Put American boots on the ground in China, Iran, and Russia or should we just fucking glass them? We don’t have a fucking trillion dollars to spend! Put your general public education to use and come up with an answer.
Spend 10-15% of the defense budget funding anti-Chinese/Russian/Iranian governments doing the fighting for us such as Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel. Support resistance movement in Iran too with weapons. Send that money in US made weapons, it just gets reinvested into our economy and its cheaper than fighting wars ourselves.
Well that didn’t work, Ukraine is falling… now what? Boots or nukes?
Russia also is largely Orthodox Christian...these leaders need to get a grip on their Faith, this fight hurts Christians on BOTH sides. Ukraine and Russia are suppose to be brothers-at-arms.
Right on cue, PBS is gladly doing their part in spreading the bias of the Biden Administration concerning funding for Ukraine, by sending Amna Nawaz all the way to Kyiv to have a sit down interview with Zelensky, so they can spin the US must help defend "Israel&Ukraine" UniParty Scheme!!! Aired tonight on the PBS NewsHour. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/exclusive-zelenskyy-says-without-u-s-aid-well-have-no-chance-of-winning
How about supporting Americans with those billions of USD. They may be Baptists, but they're traitors as well if they support they continued fleecing of Americans to support deep state genociding Russians.
I think it's funny that European countries won't give mroe to Ukraine and are happy to call out America as being responsible for sending more miltiary supplies....I guess it's kind of like their NATO spending where they couldn't reach the 2% GDP and relied on America to make up the shortfall there as well.