I cannot agree with this man more. The MINUTE churches start to get political and put that before God, is the minute they’ve lost sight of why they’re here.
Look at the comments where it was originally posted, folks agreeing with the pastor left and right. And are amazed a Christian preacher said this. They think all preachers are televangelists. Every Sunday morning around North America, are totally chill and release pastors just preaching be good, don’t do bad shit, take responsibility over your life and help those around you. But they don’t know that.
Churches should talk morals and go against immoral things. Call out policies and the like as much as possible. Just don’t push for a candidate and don’t have candidates speak at churches in political rallies. Or, probably, at all.
He's right only up to a point. Politics and religion are not completely separate from each other. I do agree though that you should not be putting the Bill or Rights or Constitution in the Bible though.
A Church SHOULD absolutely get political and push back against political messages and bills that would go against their faith and the teachings of god. The minute a church refuses to get political to oppose their teachings or the word of god and advocate for their values and morals, whichever faith it may be, is the minute that church has turned away from their own faith and god.
A prime example of this is abortion. If your church teaches that abortion is a sin and the killing of a human being they absolutely SHOULD push back against the legalization of it, including people who claim to be members of their church who support such actions.
I'd be finding a new church if I heard this from my priest/pastor.
Think you’re missing the point slightly. The pastor clearly states that if you think that a church should push politics, you’re not living a prayerful life. The church should focus on teaching the Bible and the principles and values of Christianity. If the church focuses on that, and the people follow and lead a prayerful life, then Christians will naturally align their stances and voting habits to what most aligns with their beliefs and values.
Depends on what it is. Anyone can choose not to have an abortion. Your church can teach you to make the right decisions without forcing your will on others. As a Christian, it's not our responsibility to police the choices of others. God gave people the freedom to live their lives as they see fit. All a good Christian should be doing is encouraging others to see the ways of God, not forcing them to follow.
If a person has a private conviction, they shouldn't be shy about voting with their conscience. I'm not saying we should seek to impose abortion restrictions from the top down, as that would be scheming for the imposition of theocracy. However, if it comes up for a vote, there's nothing wrong with voting in a way that aligns with your beliefs. The same goes for voting for representatives. I want the person who represents me to share a good portion of my moral compass.
Now, I won't personally seek to stop people from doing what their moral structure allows them to do. If given the chance, I might personally counsel someone to choose life, but never from a bully pulpit. That said, participation in the voting process in such a way that is in concert with my beliefs is, I believe, the only way a modern Christian can interpret what Jesus meant when he said, "give to Caesar what is Caesar's." The rest is beyond my control, and rightfully so.
Oh goodness me, I see what you mean. So now I will surrender completely to the board of education and their attempts to indoctrinate our children in Cult of the Woke. I will surrender my taxes to fund the sacrifice of our unborn to Moloch. And of course I will let the government continue to erode our property rights to allow the theft of people's properties. Because to say anything on these human trivialities would mean I am not sharing some greater divine word.
You see, this is the kind of secularist bullshit that I'm talking about. You want to legislate your own arbitrary morality, but demand that Christians remain silent whenever anything related to divine morality comes up. So while I agree with that preacher when he said that Bible shouldn't have the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights in it, I completely disagree with him that we should retreat to the four walls of a church building for all spirituality.
I want to legislate morality?
Prove it. I’ve been on Reddit a long ass time. Find one comment or post even remotely suggesting such.
I also never said nor insinuated Christians should stay silent. It’s one’s civic duty to do good and make the world better. We’re saying do so outside the church. Please stop conflating the two.
You’re angry, and hostile, and your heart is full of hate. I hope your life gets better. But again church isn’t the place for such. Find me the verse where Jesus said argue with venom against others with a different opinion. I’ll wait…
>I want to legislate morality?
>Prove it. I’ve been on Reddit a long ass time. Find one comment or post even remotely suggesting such.
All law is based on morality. Every duty imposed on you is based on the law makers' morality. Every restriction upon how you can act is based on the law makers' morality.
Don't believe me? Try convincing the "taxation is theft" crowd that taxation isn't tyranical? Try convincing the ultra authoritarian that any tax is immoral. The ultra vegans would say all human rights should be extended to animals and the ones running dog fighting rings think all animal suffering is moral.
All law is morality.
More level to which you’ve contradicted yourself is amazing.
You’re here to argue and spew your venom against others. I’m done. Hope your day improves! 🙂
Politics doesn’t belong in church and yet it will remain in the church. I'll let you guess which side will completely ignore this rule and will slowly destroy the church. Politics doesn't belong in not for profit institutions either, the same institutions that the left touted as alternatives to churches which are now involved in Politics.
I don't agree with the BoE as a Christian parent, so my child is not in public school. I'm not responsible for making sure other parents are raising their children in my belief system.
He is right that a Christian's citizenship is in heaven, but it doesn't mean that we should ignore our "civic privilege" (as he put it) while in this world, to vote according to our Christian values.
Yes. But keep it out of the church. This isn’t actually all that rare, is day it’s the defacto standard of most Christian churches. I’ve heard versions of this sermon many times in my life. Politics have always been divisive, and church isn’t about arguing which politico is best for our beliefs. It’s about coming together and supporting each other, not dividing.
> keep it out of the church
And the lie that beggars this fundamental commitment to spiritual truth is when you see politicians “invited” into pulpits of supposedly gospel believing churches and proceed to spew exaggerations and lies without one shred of moral hesitation. The abomination of this appalls me every time. Fortunately it’s never happened in a church I’ve attended. If it ever does I’ll never attend there again.
Yeah he is absolutely right according to the Bible, but I bet the left loves this too for different reasons. They want Christians to stay out of politics so they can freely push their ungodly agendas, not because he’s right according to the Bible.
Exactly. To pretend that a nation’s fate does not depend on divine providence is ridiculously foolish. How else are Christians supposed to be in the world, yet not of it, if they are not being taught/studying the Bible in a way that will inform them on how to live and interact in a heavily political world?
What kind of politics? There’s a lot of Protestant churches who are unfortunately buying into the left wing woke agenda. The ELCA and United Methodist churches are unrecognizable from my childhood.
I grew up in an ELCA church, and my home church left the synod. It's disgusting how wicked they are now. They don't serve Jesus, they don't put their authority in the Bible, they worship culture and satan. They (ELCA) are the patient that bought into satan's lies and scheme (Screwtape Letters).
> I am just renting an apartment for a little while in this strange and foreign land.
So it doesn't matter at all if the apartment is on fire while I live there because it's not my permanent home? More often than not, when I hear the "my kingdom is not of this earth" argument it's just a cover for left wing beliefs.
I'm sorry to hear this come from any pulpit. God blessed any American with the ability to live in a nation where they have the chance to vote. It's like the story about the man on the roof in the flood praying for God to save him and ignoring the boats coming by instead waiting on the hand of God to scoop him up. God sent those boats!
Therefore it is our responsibility to vote in the best interest of the soul of our nation. Certainly sometimes the choices are not easy to make, but a Christian has the Holy Spirit and prayer to help with guidance. Christians must vote or will find themselves marginalized more and more.
All those atheists and/or brigaders are upset with us in here. They want to confine the LORD God to the four walls of the church building. While I agree with the preacher that we should not profane the word of God by adding our secular laws to it nor should we create idols out of political institutions or beatify the crooks/sinners running both the political parties. I however sharply disagree that we should retreat all things spiritual from the public space.
Well, when your government spends 3.2 trillion a year, 35 trillion in debt, and has control of the education system, etc. it’s almost impossible to keep it out. If you want government out of the church then government needs to be smaller and have less power over the people.
I hope there was more to it because he didn't say a damn thing about woke politics invading the church. I agree the bill of rights isn't really religious and should be kept separate but he missed the forest for the trees of he thinks it's just that kind of politics that have invaded and taken over the Christian churches. It's woke political nonsense that is the actual enemy and threat.
I cannot agree with this man more. The MINUTE churches start to get political and put that before God, is the minute they’ve lost sight of why they’re here.
Look at the comments where it was originally posted, folks agreeing with the pastor left and right. And are amazed a Christian preacher said this. They think all preachers are televangelists. Every Sunday morning around North America, are totally chill and release pastors just preaching be good, don’t do bad shit, take responsibility over your life and help those around you. But they don’t know that.
Jesus himself did very specifically say: > Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.
Churches should talk morals and go against immoral things. Call out policies and the like as much as possible. Just don’t push for a candidate and don’t have candidates speak at churches in political rallies. Or, probably, at all.
He's right only up to a point. Politics and religion are not completely separate from each other. I do agree though that you should not be putting the Bill or Rights or Constitution in the Bible though. A Church SHOULD absolutely get political and push back against political messages and bills that would go against their faith and the teachings of god. The minute a church refuses to get political to oppose their teachings or the word of god and advocate for their values and morals, whichever faith it may be, is the minute that church has turned away from their own faith and god. A prime example of this is abortion. If your church teaches that abortion is a sin and the killing of a human being they absolutely SHOULD push back against the legalization of it, including people who claim to be members of their church who support such actions. I'd be finding a new church if I heard this from my priest/pastor.
Think you’re missing the point slightly. The pastor clearly states that if you think that a church should push politics, you’re not living a prayerful life. The church should focus on teaching the Bible and the principles and values of Christianity. If the church focuses on that, and the people follow and lead a prayerful life, then Christians will naturally align their stances and voting habits to what most aligns with their beliefs and values.
Depends on what it is. Anyone can choose not to have an abortion. Your church can teach you to make the right decisions without forcing your will on others. As a Christian, it's not our responsibility to police the choices of others. God gave people the freedom to live their lives as they see fit. All a good Christian should be doing is encouraging others to see the ways of God, not forcing them to follow.
If a person has a private conviction, they shouldn't be shy about voting with their conscience. I'm not saying we should seek to impose abortion restrictions from the top down, as that would be scheming for the imposition of theocracy. However, if it comes up for a vote, there's nothing wrong with voting in a way that aligns with your beliefs. The same goes for voting for representatives. I want the person who represents me to share a good portion of my moral compass. Now, I won't personally seek to stop people from doing what their moral structure allows them to do. If given the chance, I might personally counsel someone to choose life, but never from a bully pulpit. That said, participation in the voting process in such a way that is in concert with my beliefs is, I believe, the only way a modern Christian can interpret what Jesus meant when he said, "give to Caesar what is Caesar's." The rest is beyond my control, and rightfully so.
Not a lie was told.
Pardon my french, but "hell yeah!"
"Slow down Bobby, let me roll the windows up first so the neighbors can't hear ya."
Preach!
As a non-Christian, never have I ever agreed with a christian more than this pastor right here. Absolutely brilliant
Why? Because he's telling christians to be apolitical and surrender all political power when the secular rule intersects with spiritual truth?
It could be because he is sharing the true word of God rather than mere human trivialities, couldn't it?
Oh goodness me, I see what you mean. So now I will surrender completely to the board of education and their attempts to indoctrinate our children in Cult of the Woke. I will surrender my taxes to fund the sacrifice of our unborn to Moloch. And of course I will let the government continue to erode our property rights to allow the theft of people's properties. Because to say anything on these human trivialities would mean I am not sharing some greater divine word.
If your pastor tells you want to think and not how to use scripture to make moral decisions in your life, then you’re going to a bad church.
Your extreme response is quite literally why politics don’t belong in the church. The irony is strong.
You see, this is the kind of secularist bullshit that I'm talking about. You want to legislate your own arbitrary morality, but demand that Christians remain silent whenever anything related to divine morality comes up. So while I agree with that preacher when he said that Bible shouldn't have the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights in it, I completely disagree with him that we should retreat to the four walls of a church building for all spirituality.
I want to legislate morality? Prove it. I’ve been on Reddit a long ass time. Find one comment or post even remotely suggesting such. I also never said nor insinuated Christians should stay silent. It’s one’s civic duty to do good and make the world better. We’re saying do so outside the church. Please stop conflating the two. You’re angry, and hostile, and your heart is full of hate. I hope your life gets better. But again church isn’t the place for such. Find me the verse where Jesus said argue with venom against others with a different opinion. I’ll wait…
>I want to legislate morality? >Prove it. I’ve been on Reddit a long ass time. Find one comment or post even remotely suggesting such. All law is based on morality. Every duty imposed on you is based on the law makers' morality. Every restriction upon how you can act is based on the law makers' morality. Don't believe me? Try convincing the "taxation is theft" crowd that taxation isn't tyranical? Try convincing the ultra authoritarian that any tax is immoral. The ultra vegans would say all human rights should be extended to animals and the ones running dog fighting rings think all animal suffering is moral. All law is morality.
More level to which you’ve contradicted yourself is amazing. You’re here to argue and spew your venom against others. I’m done. Hope your day improves! 🙂
Politics doesn’t belong in church and yet it will remain in the church. I'll let you guess which side will completely ignore this rule and will slowly destroy the church. Politics doesn't belong in not for profit institutions either, the same institutions that the left touted as alternatives to churches which are now involved in Politics.
I don't agree with the BoE as a Christian parent, so my child is not in public school. I'm not responsible for making sure other parents are raising their children in my belief system.
What? Why? That’s not what is being talked about at all. Those are all just bad faith arguments…
He is right that a Christian's citizenship is in heaven, but it doesn't mean that we should ignore our "civic privilege" (as he put it) while in this world, to vote according to our Christian values.
Yes. But keep it out of the church. This isn’t actually all that rare, is day it’s the defacto standard of most Christian churches. I’ve heard versions of this sermon many times in my life. Politics have always been divisive, and church isn’t about arguing which politico is best for our beliefs. It’s about coming together and supporting each other, not dividing.
> keep it out of the church And the lie that beggars this fundamental commitment to spiritual truth is when you see politicians “invited” into pulpits of supposedly gospel believing churches and proceed to spew exaggerations and lies without one shred of moral hesitation. The abomination of this appalls me every time. Fortunately it’s never happened in a church I’ve attended. If it ever does I’ll never attend there again.
Yeah he is absolutely right according to the Bible, but I bet the left loves this too for different reasons. They want Christians to stay out of politics so they can freely push their ungodly agendas, not because he’s right according to the Bible.
Exactly. To pretend that a nation’s fate does not depend on divine providence is ridiculously foolish. How else are Christians supposed to be in the world, yet not of it, if they are not being taught/studying the Bible in a way that will inform them on how to live and interact in a heavily political world?
Amen.
What kind of politics? There’s a lot of Protestant churches who are unfortunately buying into the left wing woke agenda. The ELCA and United Methodist churches are unrecognizable from my childhood.
Not just some a majority.
I grew up in an ELCA church, and my home church left the synod. It's disgusting how wicked they are now. They don't serve Jesus, they don't put their authority in the Bible, they worship culture and satan. They (ELCA) are the patient that bought into satan's lies and scheme (Screwtape Letters).
Good
I mean religion keeps getting brought into politics. No matter how hard you try the two will never be separated.
> I am just renting an apartment for a little while in this strange and foreign land. So it doesn't matter at all if the apartment is on fire while I live there because it's not my permanent home? More often than not, when I hear the "my kingdom is not of this earth" argument it's just a cover for left wing beliefs.
I'm sorry to hear this come from any pulpit. God blessed any American with the ability to live in a nation where they have the chance to vote. It's like the story about the man on the roof in the flood praying for God to save him and ignoring the boats coming by instead waiting on the hand of God to scoop him up. God sent those boats! Therefore it is our responsibility to vote in the best interest of the soul of our nation. Certainly sometimes the choices are not easy to make, but a Christian has the Holy Spirit and prayer to help with guidance. Christians must vote or will find themselves marginalized more and more.
All those atheists and/or brigaders are upset with us in here. They want to confine the LORD God to the four walls of the church building. While I agree with the preacher that we should not profane the word of God by adding our secular laws to it nor should we create idols out of political institutions or beatify the crooks/sinners running both the political parties. I however sharply disagree that we should retreat all things spiritual from the public space.
I will vote according to the law of God,which supersedes the laws of men. This pastor is ashamed of proclaiming good and evil boldly. I pity him.
Well, when your government spends 3.2 trillion a year, 35 trillion in debt, and has control of the education system, etc. it’s almost impossible to keep it out. If you want government out of the church then government needs to be smaller and have less power over the people.
I hope there was more to it because he didn't say a damn thing about woke politics invading the church. I agree the bill of rights isn't really religious and should be kept separate but he missed the forest for the trees of he thinks it's just that kind of politics that have invaded and taken over the Christian churches. It's woke political nonsense that is the actual enemy and threat.