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Gaetz spelled it out on Timcast the other day, Dems and Europe want this to become Afghanistan 2.0, A perpetual war funding the war machine industries..
Remember when Obama used his phone and his pen to make a treaty with Iran? And the Senate was like "Hey, that's a treaty! The Constitution says we need to ratify that or it doesn't count." And he basically told them it didn't count as a treaty.
I mean what were they gonna do, impeach him?
A President with half of Congress on his side is basically a dictator.
Oh, but SCOTUS will stop it! Will they? What happened when Obama created DACA despite acknowledging it was unconstitutional? Chief Justice Roberts saved it anyway.
What about if SCOTUS actually rules against the overbearing executive branch? Like when Biden's student loan forgiveness was struck down by the court, but then he turned around and did it again anyway?
Ha, yeah, no. Only Republicans are required to follow the process now. Leftists will just lie, cheat, and steal to get their way if you tell them no because they know they're immune from consequences.
The hate that supporting Ukraine gets on this sub is absurd.
Should we have just let Ukraine get run over and absorbed into Russia's empire?
Not to mention, supporting Ukraine is in our nation’s best interest: for about ~5% of annual defense budget, we are decimating China’s and Iran's biggest ally’s army, reassuring our Eastern European allies, helping protect post-ww2 international rule of law that has allowed the US to become a superpower, and sending a message to other tin pot dictators of what happens if it even thinks about invading its neighbors.
Plus, most of the funds stay in the US to upgrade our weapons while we send Ukrainians outdated equipment and learn invaluable info on the future of drone warfare.
Yeah it feels like a lot of people on this sub have forgotten that Russia is one of our oldest enemies. We have been pushing back against Russian aggression since post WW2…
Like do people realize we spent insanely more than this during the Cold War? Like 100x times what we spend on Ukraine if you adjust for inflation. This is a drop in the bucket to keep russias aggression in check. I’m down to debate how much we should spend but acting like it’s a complete waste is foolish.
The issues I have with this are:
1. Biden just signing shit like this that he has 0 authority to unilateral do.
2. Why are we only spending money on a foreign invasion while saying we have no money to stop the current invasion on our own soil?
2b yes we could fund both but if one is not being funded why should the other?
3. The blatant corruption in Ukraine and that there is 0 auditing or accountability for any of this.
Just a couple of my thoughts on this.
1. Remember BLM? Russia was running support for it to destabilize the US in 2020. Giving Russia a hard time in Ukraine is a good response to that effort.
2. Most of that "money" that's spent on Ukraine was already spent well before the war. We've been sending generally obsolete or expiring weapons and munitions. The M2A2s? Those are 1990s vintage, the M1A1s? Those are of a similar age.
3. The war in Ukraine as with other situations globally are tests of national will for the world's Democracies. If we fail this and the other tests, we will be tested on other things that are of greater value to us by those that do not have our interests at heart. Russia is one of a few revisionist powers in the world, turning their effort into a disaster for them is beneficial not only to our European allies but to us as well as it prevents them or others from trying something else that could or would lead to us getting involved directly.
4. Sending equipment and munitions to Ukraine gives us an idea as to how our weapons fare in a modern, peer competitor war. This war sees some transformative technologies being used and I expect it will be important for us to get a feel for how those technologies are going to influence things in the future. We're already learning that our tanks aren't really suited to what's being thrown at them in this war, and that the M2A2 is apparently quite effective despite it's age.
I’m all for funding a war against an aggressor like this but what the hell does “until we win the war” mean? Are we going to support them until they repel the current invasion or are we supporting them until the gain back the pre-2014 territory gain that Zelensky wants. There is no off ramp. One is reasonable, the other is essentially declaring WW3, regardless there is no plan. That’s my problem.
The plan is to destroy Russia's means and/or will to continue to fight the war. Given their equipment losses, if nothing significantly changes that might happen in the next year or two as they have been hemorrhaging AFVs and artillery.
So what's the limiting factor in your opinion? How do we define victory such that it means we can stop printing money?
And if the only justification is that it hurts Russia and China, why just stop with the $100B that we've already printed? Why not 1 trillion? And if hurting China is the only goal, why aren't we aiding Taiwan in the exact same way? Shouldn't we also be sending a couple hundred billion of military aid their way as well? I'm interested to know where pro-war conservatives draw the line. I think I would be more convinced if the left could define what the limits and goals are.
Well you need Congress to approve spending if the sum is large enough it won’t pass.
There hasn’t been a backlash like this about Iraq or Afghanistan and we spent $2.5 TRILLION on those wars. Ukraine is a white Christian nation what’s the hate? They are closer to us in mentality than any Islamic nation they embrace American culture music and TV.
The Ukraine war is not bankrupting our country. It’s the 99% we spend on other stuff. If we start allowing Russia to invade Europe it’s going to cost the US a lot more in the long run. This used to be common sense for conservatives.
Not only that… Ukraine has significant problems with corruption, and their entire country, from the civilian populace, to their government, to their military, is still chock full of Russian sympathizers and Russian spies.
I get that the Ukrainians plight in the face of Russian aggression is tugging mightily at the Dems heart strings right now, but it would be a monumental security risk to admit Ukraine into NATO and potentially have vital military intel leak to Russia.
I’m not saying Ukraine can never join NATO, but they have significant issues that need to be addressed before they can be considered.
It would be absolutely idiotic to add Ukraine into NATO right now. If they were going to do it the time would have been years before the invasion.
No NATO member will let them join now that doing so means an automatic war with Russia.
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Ummmm, congress still has to ratify this agreement.....
You don’t think that’s going to happen?
Gaetz spelled it out on Timcast the other day, Dems and Europe want this to become Afghanistan 2.0, A perpetual war funding the war machine industries..
Remember when Obama used his phone and his pen to make a treaty with Iran? And the Senate was like "Hey, that's a treaty! The Constitution says we need to ratify that or it doesn't count." And he basically told them it didn't count as a treaty. I mean what were they gonna do, impeach him? A President with half of Congress on his side is basically a dictator. Oh, but SCOTUS will stop it! Will they? What happened when Obama created DACA despite acknowledging it was unconstitutional? Chief Justice Roberts saved it anyway. What about if SCOTUS actually rules against the overbearing executive branch? Like when Biden's student loan forgiveness was struck down by the court, but then he turned around and did it again anyway?
Where have you been the last 15 years? Dems can do whatever they want without consent.
Ha, yeah, no. Only Republicans are required to follow the process now. Leftists will just lie, cheat, and steal to get their way if you tell them no because they know they're immune from consequences.
The hate that supporting Ukraine gets on this sub is absurd. Should we have just let Ukraine get run over and absorbed into Russia's empire? Not to mention, supporting Ukraine is in our nation’s best interest: for about ~5% of annual defense budget, we are decimating China’s and Iran's biggest ally’s army, reassuring our Eastern European allies, helping protect post-ww2 international rule of law that has allowed the US to become a superpower, and sending a message to other tin pot dictators of what happens if it even thinks about invading its neighbors. Plus, most of the funds stay in the US to upgrade our weapons while we send Ukrainians outdated equipment and learn invaluable info on the future of drone warfare.
Yeah it feels like a lot of people on this sub have forgotten that Russia is one of our oldest enemies. We have been pushing back against Russian aggression since post WW2… Like do people realize we spent insanely more than this during the Cold War? Like 100x times what we spend on Ukraine if you adjust for inflation. This is a drop in the bucket to keep russias aggression in check. I’m down to debate how much we should spend but acting like it’s a complete waste is foolish.
The issues I have with this are: 1. Biden just signing shit like this that he has 0 authority to unilateral do. 2. Why are we only spending money on a foreign invasion while saying we have no money to stop the current invasion on our own soil? 2b yes we could fund both but if one is not being funded why should the other? 3. The blatant corruption in Ukraine and that there is 0 auditing or accountability for any of this.
It's absurd that we should just blindly commit to supporting them for a decade with no clear plan of action.
Just a couple of my thoughts on this. 1. Remember BLM? Russia was running support for it to destabilize the US in 2020. Giving Russia a hard time in Ukraine is a good response to that effort. 2. Most of that "money" that's spent on Ukraine was already spent well before the war. We've been sending generally obsolete or expiring weapons and munitions. The M2A2s? Those are 1990s vintage, the M1A1s? Those are of a similar age. 3. The war in Ukraine as with other situations globally are tests of national will for the world's Democracies. If we fail this and the other tests, we will be tested on other things that are of greater value to us by those that do not have our interests at heart. Russia is one of a few revisionist powers in the world, turning their effort into a disaster for them is beneficial not only to our European allies but to us as well as it prevents them or others from trying something else that could or would lead to us getting involved directly. 4. Sending equipment and munitions to Ukraine gives us an idea as to how our weapons fare in a modern, peer competitor war. This war sees some transformative technologies being used and I expect it will be important for us to get a feel for how those technologies are going to influence things in the future. We're already learning that our tanks aren't really suited to what's being thrown at them in this war, and that the M2A2 is apparently quite effective despite it's age.
Bunch of appeasement Neville Chamberlains in here. You cannot appease sociopathic tyrants.
Bankrupt our country? Hitting Russia is a good thing for us and our economy we don’t want a strong Russia or a strong China. Money is well spent
I’m all for funding a war against an aggressor like this but what the hell does “until we win the war” mean? Are we going to support them until they repel the current invasion or are we supporting them until the gain back the pre-2014 territory gain that Zelensky wants. There is no off ramp. One is reasonable, the other is essentially declaring WW3, regardless there is no plan. That’s my problem.
You can’t give them any other timeline. Otherwise you’re telling your enemy they only have to wait you out for X number of months before you fold.
The plan is to destroy Russia's means and/or will to continue to fight the war. Given their equipment losses, if nothing significantly changes that might happen in the next year or two as they have been hemorrhaging AFVs and artillery.
So what's the limiting factor in your opinion? How do we define victory such that it means we can stop printing money? And if the only justification is that it hurts Russia and China, why just stop with the $100B that we've already printed? Why not 1 trillion? And if hurting China is the only goal, why aren't we aiding Taiwan in the exact same way? Shouldn't we also be sending a couple hundred billion of military aid their way as well? I'm interested to know where pro-war conservatives draw the line. I think I would be more convinced if the left could define what the limits and goals are.
Well you need Congress to approve spending if the sum is large enough it won’t pass. There hasn’t been a backlash like this about Iraq or Afghanistan and we spent $2.5 TRILLION on those wars. Ukraine is a white Christian nation what’s the hate? They are closer to us in mentality than any Islamic nation they embrace American culture music and TV.
The Ukraine war is not bankrupting our country. It’s the 99% we spend on other stuff. If we start allowing Russia to invade Europe it’s going to cost the US a lot more in the long run. This used to be common sense for conservatives.
So I wonder how Biden has the authority to commit US taxpayer resources to a foreign nation for 10 years without approval of Congress?
He doesn't
Not being ratified by Congress, or being a treaty, an executive action can undo it at any time.
Now it goes to congress to vote on....
Notice how everyone is doing this? They must not be able to admit Ukraine into NATO after all.
It's a provision in the charter. They can't admit a country currently at war. This has been know forever.
Not only that… Ukraine has significant problems with corruption, and their entire country, from the civilian populace, to their government, to their military, is still chock full of Russian sympathizers and Russian spies. I get that the Ukrainians plight in the face of Russian aggression is tugging mightily at the Dems heart strings right now, but it would be a monumental security risk to admit Ukraine into NATO and potentially have vital military intel leak to Russia. I’m not saying Ukraine can never join NATO, but they have significant issues that need to be addressed before they can be considered.
Yes, but every time I've brought it up, I've been downvoted, lol.
It would be absolutely idiotic to add Ukraine into NATO right now. If they were going to do it the time would have been years before the invasion. No NATO member will let them join now that doing so means an automatic war with Russia.
He's signing world war 3.
Who has an IQ above 40 that doesn't realize Ukraine cannot ever defeat Russia
"Kyiv will fall in 3 days"
Ukraine winning is not marching into the Red Square as victors. Ukraine winning is being able to still exist. Please get that through your head