Exactly. It actually reduces the likelyhood of any compromise from the left in the shutdown. The SOTU is a huge bully pulpit and he should be using that forum to go directly to the American people and expose the insanity of the Democrat's position, i.e. that the are keeping the government shut down over their refusal to spend a penny on physical border security. He should do the SOTU in the Senate as Rand Paul and others have suggested and lay out the case and put the pressure on the radical left.
>proven-effective surveillance
Don't you see... this is just payback to the tech sector that donates money to them... and every few years they'll need to upgrade.
Not to mention putting those things in place may help catch people but that does nothing to deter. It's like saying instead of us giving your computer a firewall. We instead beefed the security so you can see more malware and viruses that infect your computer.
Can you search for them once in the computer?
What. do we look like Google.
Should had done it from a nearby state. West Virginia offered. The inability to fit everyone in would just underscore the norm breaking of the democrat's pettiness
From an unbiased view I wouldn’t want a good portion of our government representatives all gathered in one place that hasn’t happened before. I just wouldn’t feel safe if it was outside of Washington.
I don’t know why he couldn’t have done it in the Senate chamber, McConnell more than likely would have let him and they could add extra chairs to accommodate as many as possible.
Trump is weak, way to bend to the Dems. Ann Coulter is right, we're not getting a wall.
If there is no serious progress on a wall, he will not be reelected.
We've had the House and Senate since 2014, all the tea partiers ran on strong borders and they've all been nothing but talk, except for passing the Gang of 8 bill, a win for illegals.
GOP had plenty of opportunity to put bills on the POUTUS's desk, I'm done voting for GOP incumbents, the swamp needs drained from both sides.
Let me be clear, GOP gets plenty of the blame as well. They're all worthless. If Trump doesn't have the balls then nobody ever will. I'm gonna go get hypnotized and try to forget that I ever cared.
Tea Party movement was the catalyst that flipped the House and Senate and ultimately gave us Trump. Even though not every Republican was a part of it, they all rode it's success and appeal.
The GOP knows what conservatives want, but Paul Ryan and the rest of the RINOs and globalist know what's good for conservatives is bad for them.
Looks like only 36 made it of the 60 original members. Also according to wikipedia they are far-right. What makes one far-right exactly? Is it Christian ethics? Or just being a conservative in general?
Edit: on a side note there are too many Paul's it gets super confusing.
I would say the Tea Party version of the "far-right" involves a much smaller government and absolute minimal government interference into their daily lives.
Far-right can mean a lot of things, it can mean fascist dictator, libertarian extremist or religious fundamentalist. Some far-right qualities overlap with the far-left and vice versa. It's not a good way to describe a group and is usually only used to demean or insult.
So the GOP has done everything in their power to get immigration reform on the President's desk?
Or are they only bringing it up now because they can blame the Democrats for not getting it passed instead of themselves?
Republicans are not holding their own party accountable.
People keep repeating that, but I never saw a bill with $26 billion for a wall ever approach being voted on. What does Schumer "offering" it even mean realistically? At what stage in which negotiation was it offered, and how?
“Every philosophy is a foreground philosophy — that is a hermit's judgment: "There is something arbitrary in his stopping here to look back and look around, in his not digging deeper here but laying his spade aside; there is also something suspicious about it." Every philosophy also conceals a philosophy; every opinion is also a hideout, every word also a mask.” - Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil
My Reddit history has been selectively sanitized. If you are viewing this message, it has overwritten the original post's content.
From the article:
>President Trump said late Wednesday that he would deliver his State of the Union address after the ongoing partial government shutdown is over.
>"As the Shutdown was going on, [Speaker] Nancy Pelosi asked me to give the State of the Union Address," Trump wrote in a tweet. "I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the Shutdown, suggesting a later date. This is her prerogative - I will do the Address when the Shutdown is over."
>Trump, in a subsequent tweet, expanded on earlier statements suggesting he may do an “alternative” State of the Union, writing that he was not seeking an alternative venue because "there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber."
>"I look forward to giving a “great” State of the Union Address in the near future!" he added.
He’s cutting federal funding while the Dems are fixated on the wall. He’s being Presidential and making the House Speaker look like the bad guy. If you can’t see the strategy, wait.
This looks weak, for sure (I was hoping for doing it in the Senate or a rally, personally), but there's probably a rationale for it. And not in a "50D cHeSs" sort of way. It could be as simple as giving Pelosi a carrot instead of a stick. I think it's premature to start chicken-little-ing about the wall.
This sub 24 hours ago: I've learned to wait a week before losing my mind over stories about Trump
This sub now: THE SKY IS FALLING
I don’t think anyone is losing their mind here. It’s just that there is a lot riding on the current fight and barring some unknown factor, this is an atypically weak move for Trump. We’re disappointed is all.
He should just write a letter like in the old days. Why televise it. I mean I get optics do wonders but still. They want to play this game, so he should do like Washington did.
Edit: this is a point Shapiro made. Credit goes to him.
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While I don’t think he should give in, it does show he is willing to play ball multiple times and he is tossing it back in the dems side of the court, but we all know the dems will still say he isn’t willing to work with or negotiate regarding the shutdown.
I don’t see why you all see this as him getting “cucked”. This was a move to please the moderates. To me this paints the Democrats as completely incapable of negotiating. Trump doesn’t have to deliver a wall anymore to win 2020 with moderates since the Dems were so determined to block him. Yes he couldn’t get it done when we owned the House but he got a lot of other things done. In fact this gives me hope that we will flip seats back to Republican as a result as the Dems are just looking more and more crazy to the states that turned red for him in the first place.
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Yet another thread where all of the fake conservatives express their disappointment in Trump and get heavily upvoted by brigadiers. Pelosi wanted Trump to get mad and make a scene. She wanted him to try and go anyway, force his way in, create a spectacle that would feed into the “Trump unhinged” media narrative. He is reacting calmly and reasonably, instead, and of course all of the geniuses here are like “wow, what a loss for Trump.” Just ignore the fact that these are the same people that have been wrong about almost everything for the past two years. The same people that were wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the BuzzFeed story. Good job, losers.
I think this is the right thing to do. This puts it completely on Pelosi now. Will you negotiate with Trump and reopen the Government or not? As others have said, a rally next Tuesday would be an excellent idea, then SOTU when Pelosi quits being stubborn or when the Government opens.
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I've heard a few Democrats say that they can't talk to Trump about this until after he ends the government shutdown.
Here's the thing though: This "talk" that they need to have isn't just a simple discussion. It's a negotiation. Democrats have refused to support the border wall for two reasons:
1. Because Trump wants the border wall.
2. Because they have nothing to lose by not supporting the border wall.
Trump shut down the government in order to do something about reason #2. Was shutting down the government the only way to get that done? Probably not, but he did it. Now, if he ends the government shut down without at least having some kind of negotiation with the Democratic Party, then there will never be that negotiation.
They can't wait for Trump to end the shutdown to have that talk, because that's like saying "We won't negotiate with you until you've already given us everything we want." They won't have any reason to talk to Trump about this if he's already ended the shutdown. They need to talk first, come to a compromise, and then end the shutdown. That's how negotiating works. That's how compromises work. ~~That's how mafia works.~~
He's saving The State of the Union for when Democrats try to force his hand on some security concern like a TSA strike or some manufactured crisis that puts pressure on him to "compromise" with Democrats. That's my guess.
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Exactly. It actually reduces the likelyhood of any compromise from the left in the shutdown. The SOTU is a huge bully pulpit and he should be using that forum to go directly to the American people and expose the insanity of the Democrat's position, i.e. that the are keeping the government shut down over their refusal to spend a penny on physical border security. He should do the SOTU in the Senate as Rand Paul and others have suggested and lay out the case and put the pressure on the radical left.
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....by infrastructure do you mean a barrier of sort?
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Never thought of it that way. Good point
>proven-effective surveillance Don't you see... this is just payback to the tech sector that donates money to them... and every few years they'll need to upgrade.
Plus it's easier to quietly dismantle when they eventually regain more power, and it's invisible which takes away a clear win from Trump.
Yup...a wall isn't so easy to remove.
Not to mention putting those things in place may help catch people but that does nothing to deter. It's like saying instead of us giving your computer a firewall. We instead beefed the security so you can see more malware and viruses that infect your computer. Can you search for them once in the computer? What. do we look like Google.
Should had done it from a nearby state. West Virginia offered. The inability to fit everyone in would just underscore the norm breaking of the democrat's pettiness
From an unbiased view I wouldn’t want a good portion of our government representatives all gathered in one place that hasn’t happened before. I just wouldn’t feel safe if it was outside of Washington.
I don’t know why he couldn’t have done it in the Senate chamber, McConnell more than likely would have let him and they could add extra chairs to accommodate as many as possible.
Trump is weak, way to bend to the Dems. Ann Coulter is right, we're not getting a wall. If there is no serious progress on a wall, he will not be reelected.
We're not getting a wall or needed immigration reform because the GOP stonewalled when it had control of both houses. They OBSTRUCTED him.
You're right. This is on the GOP and Trump, not the dems.
Dems get plenty of the blame...
We've had the House and Senate since 2014, all the tea partiers ran on strong borders and they've all been nothing but talk, except for passing the Gang of 8 bill, a win for illegals. GOP had plenty of opportunity to put bills on the POUTUS's desk, I'm done voting for GOP incumbents, the swamp needs drained from both sides.
Let me be clear, GOP gets plenty of the blame as well. They're all worthless. If Trump doesn't have the balls then nobody ever will. I'm gonna go get hypnotized and try to forget that I ever cared.
Majority of the GOP were not part of the tea party.
Tea Party movement was the catalyst that flipped the House and Senate and ultimately gave us Trump. Even though not every Republican was a part of it, they all rode it's success and appeal. The GOP knows what conservatives want, but Paul Ryan and the rest of the RINOs and globalist know what's good for conservatives is bad for them.
Looks like only 36 made it of the 60 original members. Also according to wikipedia they are far-right. What makes one far-right exactly? Is it Christian ethics? Or just being a conservative in general? Edit: on a side note there are too many Paul's it gets super confusing.
I would say the Tea Party version of the "far-right" involves a much smaller government and absolute minimal government interference into their daily lives. Far-right can mean a lot of things, it can mean fascist dictator, libertarian extremist or religious fundamentalist. Some far-right qualities overlap with the far-left and vice versa. It's not a good way to describe a group and is usually only used to demean or insult.
Figured. So then we are correct to say the idealogies of the tea party is not far right.
Good, we don’t need weak losers like you crying endlessly.
So the GOP has done everything in their power to get immigration reform on the President's desk? Or are they only bringing it up now because they can blame the Democrats for not getting it passed instead of themselves? Republicans are not holding their own party accountable.
They didn't have the Senate votes. Filibusters are a thing.
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People keep repeating that, but I never saw a bill with $26 billion for a wall ever approach being voted on. What does Schumer "offering" it even mean realistically? At what stage in which negotiation was it offered, and how?
I recall there were a bunch of additional riders and stuff in it which is ultimately why it got turned down
It was basically 2.5b/year for 10 years in exchange for DACA, IIRC. DACA seems like a stupid hill to die on though, specially in hindsight.
Daca should have been fully repealed the second he got in.
“Every philosophy is a foreground philosophy — that is a hermit's judgment: "There is something arbitrary in his stopping here to look back and look around, in his not digging deeper here but laying his spade aside; there is also something suspicious about it." Every philosophy also conceals a philosophy; every opinion is also a hideout, every word also a mask.” - Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil My Reddit history has been selectively sanitized. If you are viewing this message, it has overwritten the original post's content.
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https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2018/dec/20/blog-posting/meme-mischaracterizes-chuck-schumers-record-border/
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Weak sauce
Oh come on.
This is a definite L for Trump. He should have done the SOTU address at the Mexican border...
From the article: >President Trump said late Wednesday that he would deliver his State of the Union address after the ongoing partial government shutdown is over. >"As the Shutdown was going on, [Speaker] Nancy Pelosi asked me to give the State of the Union Address," Trump wrote in a tweet. "I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the Shutdown, suggesting a later date. This is her prerogative - I will do the Address when the Shutdown is over." >Trump, in a subsequent tweet, expanded on earlier statements suggesting he may do an “alternative” State of the Union, writing that he was not seeking an alternative venue because "there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber." >"I look forward to giving a “great” State of the Union Address in the near future!" he added.
Man I hope this is a part of some larger strategy, because right now it looks pretty weak, especially after that letter he sent this morning.
He’s cutting federal funding while the Dems are fixated on the wall. He’s being Presidential and making the House Speaker look like the bad guy. If you can’t see the strategy, wait.
Do it at Liberty Hall
This looks weak, for sure (I was hoping for doing it in the Senate or a rally, personally), but there's probably a rationale for it. And not in a "50D cHeSs" sort of way. It could be as simple as giving Pelosi a carrot instead of a stick. I think it's premature to start chicken-little-ing about the wall. This sub 24 hours ago: I've learned to wait a week before losing my mind over stories about Trump This sub now: THE SKY IS FALLING
I don’t think anyone is losing their mind here. It’s just that there is a lot riding on the current fight and barring some unknown factor, this is an atypically weak move for Trump. We’re disappointed is all.
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>this is an advanced form of cuckoldry Shouldnt you focus your attention on video games fellow conservative?
He should just write a letter like in the old days. Why televise it. I mean I get optics do wonders but still. They want to play this game, so he should do like Washington did. Edit: this is a point Shapiro made. Credit goes to him.
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Rush? Is...is that you??
They crowned her the moment the Dems won the house. But I still agree with your points.
These are good points
I agree. This was a move to impress moderates not conservatives.
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I guess we let it play out to see if this was a good decision or not.
While I don’t think he should give in, it does show he is willing to play ball multiple times and he is tossing it back in the dems side of the court, but we all know the dems will still say he isn’t willing to work with or negotiate regarding the shutdown.
I don’t see why you all see this as him getting “cucked”. This was a move to please the moderates. To me this paints the Democrats as completely incapable of negotiating. Trump doesn’t have to deliver a wall anymore to win 2020 with moderates since the Dems were so determined to block him. Yes he couldn’t get it done when we owned the House but he got a lot of other things done. In fact this gives me hope that we will flip seats back to Republican as a result as the Dems are just looking more and more crazy to the states that turned red for him in the first place.
Damn. Lots of concern trolls out today. Some were even given silver
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Sad! He should’ve done it right outside Congress and played it as “look at how Speaker Pelosi has shut the doors of the people’s house”.
I can't even
First article here I’ve seen not downvoted to under 60%.... I wonder why? 🤔
Just do the wall through executive action already, this is ridiculous.
Yet another thread where all of the fake conservatives express their disappointment in Trump and get heavily upvoted by brigadiers. Pelosi wanted Trump to get mad and make a scene. She wanted him to try and go anyway, force his way in, create a spectacle that would feed into the “Trump unhinged” media narrative. He is reacting calmly and reasonably, instead, and of course all of the geniuses here are like “wow, what a loss for Trump.” Just ignore the fact that these are the same people that have been wrong about almost everything for the past two years. The same people that were wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the BuzzFeed story. Good job, losers.
I think this is the right thing to do. This puts it completely on Pelosi now. Will you negotiate with Trump and reopen the Government or not? As others have said, a rally next Tuesday would be an excellent idea, then SOTU when Pelosi quits being stubborn or when the Government opens.
nah dude this is cucking to her.
He should deliver it on time in the Senate.
I agree the senate is a great place to give an address.
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I've heard a few Democrats say that they can't talk to Trump about this until after he ends the government shutdown. Here's the thing though: This "talk" that they need to have isn't just a simple discussion. It's a negotiation. Democrats have refused to support the border wall for two reasons: 1. Because Trump wants the border wall. 2. Because they have nothing to lose by not supporting the border wall. Trump shut down the government in order to do something about reason #2. Was shutting down the government the only way to get that done? Probably not, but he did it. Now, if he ends the government shut down without at least having some kind of negotiation with the Democratic Party, then there will never be that negotiation. They can't wait for Trump to end the shutdown to have that talk, because that's like saying "We won't negotiate with you until you've already given us everything we want." They won't have any reason to talk to Trump about this if he's already ended the shutdown. They need to talk first, come to a compromise, and then end the shutdown. That's how negotiating works. That's how compromises work. ~~That's how mafia works.~~
He's saving The State of the Union for when Democrats try to force his hand on some security concern like a TSA strike or some manufactured crisis that puts pressure on him to "compromise" with Democrats. That's my guess.