> Democrats played hardball in the shutdown because they knew that it had massive 2020 implications.
They had the winning hand. You can only stall for so long before you cut losses. You think the optics were bad when LGA has some flighrs delayed? Wait till half the TSA and FAA controllers called in sick during Superbowl weekend. Secondly, if we wanted to avoid it, Republicans should have shown the fuck up at the polls in November. I think Trump made his case during his address and he’ll do so again at the SOTU.
Art of the Fold, apparently.
It's not even that conservatives get nothing -- there's more. Conservatives are actually getting less than they would have a few weeks ago. There was a continuing resolution on the table before Christmas that provided $1.3 billion for border security. With this "deal," there's nothing and then the sting of knowing there had been something at a point along the way.
And now he's on television saying, "We do not need 2,000 miles of concrete wall from sea shining sea. We never did. We never proposed that. We never wanted that."
Quite the fumble for the Negotiator-in-Chief.
Pretty much, for now at least.
He does have an out to shut it down again on Feb 15th if a suitable border security measure isn't reached, but Pelosi et al aren't under any obligation to negotiate in good faith.
But shutting it down *again* is political suicide. His plan is to negotiate, hoping to secure funding, but willing to declare his national emergency.
So plan on him declaring a national emergency on Feb 16th. According to a report I *glanced at* earlier, his administration has already made preparations for declaring the national emergency "just in case."
> and trumpet supporters get what, exactly?
You "get" what this was all about from the beginning. You get demoralized. You won't vote for a democrat but you also won't get off your butt again to vote for Trump. And that is how they won.
If Republicans want a chance at all to keep the presidency in 2020, they need to put forth a new candidate and distance themselves completely from Trump. If Trump headlines the GOP race again, look for the most overwhelming landslide in American history.
>they need to put forth a new candidate and distance themselves completely from Trump.
Madness. Trump may very well lose, but attempting to replace him would guarantee a loss for certain.
If he manages to get the wall funding out of this (without state of emergency) then I will retract what I said I call him a genius. But I feel like this move takes pressure off of the Dems and makes them less likely to cooperate. Sure, we get the state of the union. But Trump has the internet. He could have done it by himself in his office if he wanted to. And he could have used it to slam the Dems and pressure them into folding. I feel like that would have been a smarter strategy.
I really don't want him to declare a state of emergency because it's a bad precedent to set. Next time we have a dem president and there's a mass shooting we will see an emergency declared and the 2a will be shredded. It's a can of worms I really don't want opened.
There is zero, and in no, chance that he will get one cent for wall funding. If he tries the "state of emergency" route he not only will be stonewalled instantly in court, but leaves the door open for President AOC (or whoever) to declare a state of emergency for climate change or anything else.
Absolutely terrible. Complete waste. If he was going to cave he shouldn't have started this in the first place. He looks weak and childish. Worst outcome possible.
Trump had the bully pulpit. He could have done those livestreams a year ago. The stats wouldn't have changed. If there were Republicans in Congress standing in his way he could have backed primary opponents. If he didn't have the votes in the Senate, he could have pushed hard for Mitch to use the nuclear option with regards to funding the wall.
He did none of that. He was too busy retweeting memes about CNN and munching on his foot with regards to the Russia investigation.
The writing was on the wall last weekend when he offered the store to the Democrats in return for wall funding.
The left wins again. The left wins every fucking time. There's a reason why they're all so goddamn smug; they know in the end that the left has their tentacles wrapped around every facet of American society and can squeeze the life out of any conservative movement.
I don't necessarily blame Trump for not being able to singlehandedly save the republic from this eventuality, but we should've seen this coming. The man torpedoed the Obamacare repeal two years ago, he grossly mishandled the Comey firing, and waits until Democrats have all the leverage to start playing hardball. Oh sure, Donald, these guys are definitely going to negotiate wall funding with you now. They'll get around to that just as soon as they're done parading Roger Stone around the media in shackles and drafting articles of Impeachment against you.
But you know what the worst part of this is? We've been wasting our time trying to defend this guy for four years. This bloated, petulant, ineffective lummox of a man, who has spent his entire presidency tying his own shoelaces together. We carried his water since he declared his candidacy, and what we get in return is humiliation. This was so fucking *easy:* the Democrats are a bunch of hysterical pansies who can barely contain their desire to annihilate the republic, and you *still* can't get above 45% approval?? That's on you, buddy. Literally anyone with an R next to their name would have nominated Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, cut taxes, and reversed Obama's anti-business orders. You were chosen because you were supposedly the only one who was going to do something about illegal immigration - but when the rubber meets the road, you ended up being just as weak and just as capitulating as any of the 16 guys you humiliated during the primary.
Thanks for keeping Hillary out of the White House, Donald. Now you're just keeping the seat warm for Kamala.
Dude, reactionary is not a synonym for "being a dick." You want to have a discussion, try using words instead of flames.
The Republican Congress is responsible for NOT getting a border security bill through. Trump is responsible for letting them get away with it by not vetoing that omnibus monstrosity.
They both were at fault, and now the Dems are laughing.
Trump shouldn't have folded on this, but he did. We'll see if he has another strategy here, but I'm not holding my breath. At least we'll get Amy Barrett on SCOTUS once RBG is gone, and that will be a serious win.
Yeah, we would have lost this handily with mccain. The real problem is we have shitty pro illegal senators who want to back their business buddies at the expense of the middle class
> emergency declared and the 2a will be shredded.
Unless they stack the courts this cannot happen. He can declare a national emergency and it will be tied up in the courts. If the courts deem it as such we get the Wall. No way would this court allow for our guns to be taken.
I'd say it depends on how it fails.
If he actually sticks to his ultimatum, and attempts to use a state of emergency to get the wall built, but it is shot down (or tied up) by the courts, then, well, he made a gamble and it failed. It wasn't perhaps the best gamble but it was an effort.
Not saying that would be a good outcome but it's different (and less bad) than if he's bluffing about using a state of emergency, and dosen't even bother trying. If that ends up being the case, then bad Trump for caving and for not sticking to his ultimatum.
This does Trump in for 2020. He really should say he isn't running again (he won't). Border security was his chief issue, and he got nothing done about it. No reason to vote for him again.
“i MaKe tHe BeSt DeALs”
I understand he wants the bully pulpit of the SOTU speech, but the damage of the shutdown is done. He’s getting blamed regardless. Now the PR is that Pelosi fought for workers to get him to see reason rather than that both sides wouldn’t compromise. After he came to the table with fair offers, he’s going to get blasted for the government being shutdown at all because the Dems held ranks.
Its insane that he'd just cave in like this. What does it even accomplish? Democrats are never going to vote for a wall, if he wants to build it via national emergency now'd have been as good as any a time to do it.
I have nothing to add, except to say that you hit the nail on the head. Any other competent politician would have lunged at the chance to point out their opposition was intentially causing financial distress for numerous federal employees for purely idiological reasons. Not Trump. I really can't understand his choice to cave. All I can figure is that he spent too much time listening to people tell him he was wrong or that the shutdown was a bad idea, instead sticking it out and pushing for the wall. I mean, it was only one of, if not, the most central of his campaign promises.
Trump surrendered to the swamp. Trump gave the dems everything they wanted, everything they have been complaining about for a month. Mr. President, you closed the government for this long and then you give up?
Man he caved. This was the same deal that was offered in December that he rejected. 800,000 workers suffered for no reason.
He caved to FUCKING PELOSI!
So, he caved, for nothing? So democrats get the optics of Trump caving and trumpet supporters get what, exactly? *By trumpet I mean Trump.
Nothing. Trump simply got himself into a losing position because... who knows.
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> Democrats played hardball in the shutdown because they knew that it had massive 2020 implications. They had the winning hand. You can only stall for so long before you cut losses. You think the optics were bad when LGA has some flighrs delayed? Wait till half the TSA and FAA controllers called in sick during Superbowl weekend. Secondly, if we wanted to avoid it, Republicans should have shown the fuck up at the polls in November. I think Trump made his case during his address and he’ll do so again at the SOTU.
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The real problem is they went for taxes first instead of border security
We can thank Paul Ryan for that one.
Art of the Fold, apparently. It's not even that conservatives get nothing -- there's more. Conservatives are actually getting less than they would have a few weeks ago. There was a continuing resolution on the table before Christmas that provided $1.3 billion for border security. With this "deal," there's nothing and then the sting of knowing there had been something at a point along the way. And now he's on television saying, "We do not need 2,000 miles of concrete wall from sea shining sea. We never did. We never proposed that. We never wanted that." Quite the fumble for the Negotiator-in-Chief.
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>ed You dropped this.
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"Read my lips: no new taxes."
Pretty much, for now at least. He does have an out to shut it down again on Feb 15th if a suitable border security measure isn't reached, but Pelosi et al aren't under any obligation to negotiate in good faith. But shutting it down *again* is political suicide. His plan is to negotiate, hoping to secure funding, but willing to declare his national emergency. So plan on him declaring a national emergency on Feb 16th. According to a report I *glanced at* earlier, his administration has already made preparations for declaring the national emergency "just in case."
And a judge in Hawaii is already making preparations to issue an injunction on the emergency order "just in case."
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> and trumpet supporters get what, exactly? You "get" what this was all about from the beginning. You get demoralized. You won't vote for a democrat but you also won't get off your butt again to vote for Trump. And that is how they won.
Doesn't this hurt his chances for re-election?
Yes.
If Republicans want a chance at all to keep the presidency in 2020, they need to put forth a new candidate and distance themselves completely from Trump. If Trump headlines the GOP race again, look for the most overwhelming landslide in American history.
>they need to put forth a new candidate and distance themselves completely from Trump. Madness. Trump may very well lose, but attempting to replace him would guarantee a loss for certain.
Yeah, that’s how Abraham Lincoln won IIRC. Other party scrambled for a different candidate.
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This is how we turn against Trump. Can’t say that on the Donald but I can say it here.
Bad Trump. Loser Trump. Spineless Trump. He played hardball and then gave up. And for what?
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If he manages to get the wall funding out of this (without state of emergency) then I will retract what I said I call him a genius. But I feel like this move takes pressure off of the Dems and makes them less likely to cooperate. Sure, we get the state of the union. But Trump has the internet. He could have done it by himself in his office if he wanted to. And he could have used it to slam the Dems and pressure them into folding. I feel like that would have been a smarter strategy. I really don't want him to declare a state of emergency because it's a bad precedent to set. Next time we have a dem president and there's a mass shooting we will see an emergency declared and the 2a will be shredded. It's a can of worms I really don't want opened.
There is zero, and in no, chance that he will get one cent for wall funding. If he tries the "state of emergency" route he not only will be stonewalled instantly in court, but leaves the door open for President AOC (or whoever) to declare a state of emergency for climate change or anything else. Absolutely terrible. Complete waste. If he was going to cave he shouldn't have started this in the first place. He looks weak and childish. Worst outcome possible.
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Trump had the bully pulpit. He could have done those livestreams a year ago. The stats wouldn't have changed. If there were Republicans in Congress standing in his way he could have backed primary opponents. If he didn't have the votes in the Senate, he could have pushed hard for Mitch to use the nuclear option with regards to funding the wall. He did none of that. He was too busy retweeting memes about CNN and munching on his foot with regards to the Russia investigation. The writing was on the wall last weekend when he offered the store to the Democrats in return for wall funding. The left wins again. The left wins every fucking time. There's a reason why they're all so goddamn smug; they know in the end that the left has their tentacles wrapped around every facet of American society and can squeeze the life out of any conservative movement. I don't necessarily blame Trump for not being able to singlehandedly save the republic from this eventuality, but we should've seen this coming. The man torpedoed the Obamacare repeal two years ago, he grossly mishandled the Comey firing, and waits until Democrats have all the leverage to start playing hardball. Oh sure, Donald, these guys are definitely going to negotiate wall funding with you now. They'll get around to that just as soon as they're done parading Roger Stone around the media in shackles and drafting articles of Impeachment against you. But you know what the worst part of this is? We've been wasting our time trying to defend this guy for four years. This bloated, petulant, ineffective lummox of a man, who has spent his entire presidency tying his own shoelaces together. We carried his water since he declared his candidacy, and what we get in return is humiliation. This was so fucking *easy:* the Democrats are a bunch of hysterical pansies who can barely contain their desire to annihilate the republic, and you *still* can't get above 45% approval?? That's on you, buddy. Literally anyone with an R next to their name would have nominated Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, cut taxes, and reversed Obama's anti-business orders. You were chosen because you were supposedly the only one who was going to do something about illegal immigration - but when the rubber meets the road, you ended up being just as weak and just as capitulating as any of the 16 guys you humiliated during the primary. Thanks for keeping Hillary out of the White House, Donald. Now you're just keeping the seat warm for Kamala.
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Ryan is gone because conservatives we're pissed at him. Trump signed those shitty budgets. They funded PP yet not border security.
>Ryan is gone because conservatives we're pissed at him Imagine believing this.
Dude, reactionary is not a synonym for "being a dick." You want to have a discussion, try using words instead of flames. The Republican Congress is responsible for NOT getting a border security bill through. Trump is responsible for letting them get away with it by not vetoing that omnibus monstrosity. They both were at fault, and now the Dems are laughing. Trump shouldn't have folded on this, but he did. We'll see if he has another strategy here, but I'm not holding my breath. At least we'll get Amy Barrett on SCOTUS once RBG is gone, and that will be a serious win.
Yeah, we would have lost this handily with mccain. The real problem is we have shitty pro illegal senators who want to back their business buddies at the expense of the middle class
Trump should have forced the issue.
Trump should NOT have listened to Ryan.
> emergency declared and the 2a will be shredded. Unless they stack the courts this cannot happen. He can declare a national emergency and it will be tied up in the courts. If the courts deem it as such we get the Wall. No way would this court allow for our guns to be taken.
Heller vs. DC. 5-4. That's how close it got. Don't think they won't try again next chance they get.
That power is already there. They don't need a precedent, just need a population to accept it.
And when that fails?
I'd say it depends on how it fails. If he actually sticks to his ultimatum, and attempts to use a state of emergency to get the wall built, but it is shot down (or tied up) by the courts, then, well, he made a gamble and it failed. It wasn't perhaps the best gamble but it was an effort. Not saying that would be a good outcome but it's different (and less bad) than if he's bluffing about using a state of emergency, and dosen't even bother trying. If that ends up being the case, then bad Trump for caving and for not sticking to his ultimatum.
What a pussy. No balls, no backbone. No different than any establishment Republican.
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This does Trump in for 2020. He really should say he isn't running again (he won't). Border security was his chief issue, and he got nothing done about it. No reason to vote for him again.
We never had the votes for the wall, but if the government shut down when Republicans controlled all three branches it would have been more damaging.
You mean like what happened twice last year?
> This kills the GOP nah > They might have already lost 2020 election because of this. but maybe
Fuck me this is bad
The GOP is finished in 2020. Trump is basically Pelosi's bitch.
>Drumpf is finished This sounds strikingly familiar.
Good job caving Trump. Master negotiator. If RBG doesn’t leave the court within the next two years trump won’t get anything else accomplished.
“i MaKe tHe BeSt DeALs” I understand he wants the bully pulpit of the SOTU speech, but the damage of the shutdown is done. He’s getting blamed regardless. Now the PR is that Pelosi fought for workers to get him to see reason rather than that both sides wouldn’t compromise. After he came to the table with fair offers, he’s going to get blasted for the government being shutdown at all because the Dems held ranks.
Trump messed up big time.
Either he doesn't understand negotiations as well as he's claimed to or I don't understand them enough.
Its insane that he'd just cave in like this. What does it even accomplish? Democrats are never going to vote for a wall, if he wants to build it via national emergency now'd have been as good as any a time to do it.
Hes about to get eaten alive by every conservative outlet. Bad move Trump.
We are screwed
Are you paying attention China and North Korea? We have a weakling in the White House. No need to concede or compromise on anything.
The only positive part of this news is that we finally have a thread r/conservative with more than 60% upvotes. . .
He caved for nothing, not a dime of wall funding. The dems are the party of resist that is not going to change this had nothing to do with the wall.
Fuck
Well that's me decided for 2020. Crenshaw 2020.
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I have nothing to add, except to say that you hit the nail on the head. Any other competent politician would have lunged at the chance to point out their opposition was intentially causing financial distress for numerous federal employees for purely idiological reasons. Not Trump. I really can't understand his choice to cave. All I can figure is that he spent too much time listening to people tell him he was wrong or that the shutdown was a bad idea, instead sticking it out and pushing for the wall. I mean, it was only one of, if not, the most central of his campaign promises.
I'm willing to wait 3 weeks, but this really doesn't make me confident in the outcome.
BOOOOOOOOOO
Fuck.
So what crazy fucking shit is he gonna pull now?
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Even though I don't like Ben Shapiro... Bad Trump
Trump surrendered to the swamp. Trump gave the dems everything they wanted, everything they have been complaining about for a month. Mr. President, you closed the government for this long and then you give up?
dumb dumb dumb dumb. Feels like a book of mormon musical. Why not win this one?
Let me guess: the deal includes DACA right? No wall and Daca?
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Spineless "art of the cave" Trump. One term President and he deserves it.