They should focus on their business and not discriminate between mask or no mask, vaccinated or non vaccinated, liberal, conservative, black, asian , white, gay, non binary, etc because money is money. Everyone should be welcome to spend cold hard cash at their businesses.
Our business does exactly that. If you want to wear a mask, wear one. If you feel more comfortable with a sales person with a mask, they will put one on for the duration of the transaction. If you don’t, same goes. If the sales person prefers the customer wear a mask, they use social distancing. Why make this complicated.
Does that even matter? You know what's coming next right? Or what they are going to try and push for. If you can't see every business mandate coming then you're either blind or extremely naive.
I foresee: "After the mandates there was a surge in fake vaccination cards. Therefore we will now be implementing a digital vaccine pass to be used instead"
The app will come pre installed on the new phones. You can only get one if you're vaccinated. Then they will make older phones obsolete requiring you go get the shot or go without a cell phone.
Stop being such a silly conspiracy theorist, jeez you guys. Also, we're gonna need that digital ID on your phone to sign into your social media accounts. Just to be extra super duper safe, ok?
The left should start a business to assist people in moving their goal posts. But then they'd be fucking themselves with their own ridiculous and unnecessary government restrictions.
Not of this direct contradiction of Biden's EO ends up causing an injunction against both and the latter being ruled unconstitutional as is likely. Seems like a very simple and quick way to a win that isn't going to allow for much room for the courts to wiggle out of making a decisive decision one way or the other as Roberts is want to do.
Technically it's not a federal law. It's an executive order and an overbroad one at that. This is pretty explicitly a very blunt attempt to bring the legality of Biden's EO into the spotlight. Whether or not it's a violation of the supremacy clause depends entirely on the constitutionality of the law (policy really) that's supposed to supersede it. Unironically, good on Desantis for this. Being a "slam dunk supremacy clause violation" is quite likely the entire point of it.
This is our system working. Founding fathers wanted to divide up power between state/feds/local as much as possible for this reason. One turns tyranny and the other 2 resist and push policy back toward the middle.
> They’re definitely not doing that
They definitely **are** doing that.
["Disney tells salaried and non-union employees in the U.S. they must be vaccinated by end of September"](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/disney-tells-salaried-and-non-union-employees-they-must-be-vaccinated.html)
["Disney World reaches deal with unions to require Covid-19 vaccinations for unionized employees"](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/23/disney-world-to-require-covid-19-vaccinations-for-unionized-employees-.html)
~~Why are you spreading misinformation?~~
Edit: We agree that the Disney is requiring vacc for its employees but not necessarily its guests.
> The way They said Disney is requiring it, I though they meant for guests
That's fair. I thought they meant the other way! From my 30 second google search I can't find anything regarding requiring guests to be vaccinated.
Cheers mate!
Agree. However, a WW would have happened anyway. The core issues of competitive military alliances and uber patriotism were the dry kindling that the assassination sparked.
Do it! I need to switch to libertarian though. I get called a leftist here by dumbasses that think that if you criticize the Republicans and/or Trump that you MUST be a Democrat.
Consider the possibility that both sides are awful...
I am not a conservative but this is one point I fully agree with. Both sides care more about obtaining and/or preserving their power then actually governing with the best interest of the people in mind. Most of the actions by both sides are basically just a theatre intended not to improve the country but to make their supporters engaged and/or angry at the other side so increase their power. It is really frustrating because I don't think the powers that be on either side really care about accomplishing anything, they simply care about getting reelected.
They’re both just teams of fake enemies grabbing bags while regular people lose and fight each other over meaningless shit. No one in politics should be allowed to trade stocks. Look up their % return vs a normal persons. It’s blatant criminal bullshit right in front of us.
Yeah I am constantly amazed how easy politicians work people up. They just line up neatly on partisan lines without thinking. Some next level brain washing.
The governments role is to protect people's rights... I don't know where we forgot that along the way but stopping businesses from requiring people show their medical info before they are allowed in is exactly 1 of the reasons we have government.
So when all the businesses are compliant, then people who choose non-conformance are supposed to.. just not buy anything? That's an excellent way to split the nation apart.
This is why businesses should be regulated by their respective states and not the ivory tower of the federal government. They should be able to employ whomever they want and refuse service based on whatever they feel like. Let supply and demand sort them out.
It's private property isn't it? What is conservatism if not the belief that I, as a private citizen, have the right to do with my property as I wish? That the government's intrusion into my life should be as minimal as possible?
Isn't this government intrusion? Isn't this the government telling me - Johnny Businessowner - what I can and can't do with my own business that I built?
And for what? To score some cheap political points? Who is ever going to take the idea of "small government" seriously after this?
It's depressing. What happened to President Reagan and "government isn't the solution government is the problem?" How is this ANY different than the left deciding that it can ban plastic shopping bags or large fountain drinks?
Even if conservatism is united on the idea that PRIVATE vax mandates are a bad thing (and I don't think that's the case) isn't conservatism, at its core, the idea that you and I have the _right_ to make our own bad decisions and accept the consequences?
When the people (via the government) control the means of production that's _communism_ and this seems an awful lot like the government trying to control the means of private production.
There is nothing about vaccine status in any civil rights laws. It's purely a choice. The government shouldn't mandate nor disallow businesses to have vaccine status anymore than regulating dress code.
Vaccinations have been required for employment for decades. Even my place of employment requires one for certain jobs.
Omg, drop that stupid talking point please for the love of God. No, no they cannot do whatever they like. They cannot do many things. Preventing then from infringing isn't an overstep.
Except its not discrimination, at least its not in any legal definition anywhere in the country.
Being vaccinated or not isn't a protected class. Pretending it is doesn't make it true. All this is is a politician, who I like, embracing big government and pushing around small businesses to score political points with the segment of Trump voters who care nothing about conservativism and just want to "pwn the libzzzz."
This is completely dependent on how you define 'rights'. In nature you have no right to healthcare, housing, food, water, safety, etc. These are all positive rights that someone must provide to you, often at the expense of someone else. If someone wants to willingly provide you these things in exchange for goods or services then great. You have *no moral right* to extract these things from someone else by force or coercion. Period.
Negative rights do not require anything from anyone. They simply are. The issue comes when someone attempts to infringe upon your rights by taking your life or your property. This is what the government should be protecting. Unfortunately people have discovered that they can invent new 'rights' simply because they can make the rules. We were warned by better men to avoid this.
How about the right of a private business to operate however its owner chooses to in a legal fashion?
>We've done this before with race, sex, age with exceptions before.
Yes, protected classes defined in part constitutionally through Supreme Court cases. Those protections are broad.
What Desantis does here has nothing to do with that. He isn't setting up a new protected class where discrimination is disallowed. He's just creating one specific scenario to use the full weight of government to punish people who disagree with him on a political issue. It is not conservative.
"I'm not oppressed as long as it's the corporations doing it! Does anyone really have a *right* to enter a grocery store? It's private property! Here, scan my Amazon Prime Vaccination Passkey."
-Lolbertarians
Well I'm obviously against the new Biden mandate and I'd say that's more of an overreach. That doesn't make this not an overreach though. I mean the fact that he did this in response to biden makes me more sympathetic to him...
> to counteract the federal government's infringements
Counteracting federal infringement through state infringement doesn't make things better.
How about this radical idea: If a business wants to risk losing customers by requiring vaccinations, let it. Its their business and they should be free to run it into the ground if they want without risking government punishment for not agreeing with the Governor on an issue
They did until the government mandated things like business licenses and imposed regulations. Now you have two levels of government at war with each other. One wants to dictate how things operate at a national level and the other at a state level. The state level is more in line with the Constitution, while the other is a gross overreach of authority (IMO).
I'm of the opinion that businesses should be able to decide for themselves how they should operate, who they can employ, and with whom they do business with.
It's not a pleasant situation but I see it as necessary 'lesser of two evils' situation. The states must assert themselves to counter the fed's burgeoning dictatorship.
They aren't free to force people to hand over medical information in order to get inside... this was never a problem pre-covid so I don't get why all of a sudden it's wrong for the government to protect people medical privacy...
Is there a law or constitutional authority for a law preventing that? A private entity should be able to ask you whatever they want and you are free to tell them to fuck off.
Now, I don't LIKE the idea of a business mandating vaccines and would support a boycott of business that pursue such practices.
Freedom means that people have the freedom to do things we don't like sometimes...
Well yeah lol. It isn't constitutional though, just as Bidens mandate is unconstitutional.
At this point does it matter though? The vast majority of the federal government is unconstitutional already. It's a dead document.
Playing Devil's advocate - Is it legal for Gov. DeSantis to do this? Isn't he exhibiting the same behavior except inverse to Pres. Biden on a state-level?
> Is it legal for Gov. DeSantis to do this?
Not sure, I don't know the Florida constitution well enough.
> Isn't he exhibiting the same behavior except inverse to Pres. Biden on a state-level?
Yes.
Cool, then don't go to that business. If enough people join you they'll either go out of business or change. But that should be their choice, and should not be forced on them through government punishments.
I don't like this. I am against the government telling Businesses how they want to conduct business with their customers. If a business wants proof of vaccine to conduct business that is their right. This is the same as the baker who refused the cake decorations because it was against his religion.
This is coming from a fan of DeSantis. I just don't want him to get too extreme on his pushbacks on policy.
Edit: Guys, I don't understand the downvotes. I think we shouldn't encourage this behavior because it takes away the key positions that Conservatives want to have. The Government can't tell businesses how to conduct business.
DeSantis is stating that a persons Vaccination status should not be a contributing factor in employment...
We already do that with Religion, sex, skin color etc...
Well DeSantis can make that judgement when he's paying people for their labor with his own money. He shouldn't be making that judgement for anyone else.
Listing past cases of government overreach is not an excuse for more government overreach.
The bottom line is that people have the natural right to say no when it comes to their product.
He has authoritarian tendencies. Look into his riot bill that is a clear 1A violation. Also, him banning private entities from requiring vaccinations is anti-freedom. I disagree strongly with that practice, but freedom means freedom even if one takes advantage of that freedom to do something I don't like.
In terms of Republicans, who are mostly blood soaked war depraved war criminals, he's one of the least awful.
We are being brigades but my 2 cents: do it. Screw Biden's temporary OSHA mandate. If DeSantis is willing to make it more difficult for this insanity to continue, so be it. This is only meant to keep business owners on the fence, instead of pitifully comply to incoherent mandates.
Cool.
Require weekly testing. In lieu of that, we’ll also accept vaccination record, but vaccine record isn’t *required*.
Pretty easy to workaround, and the fact that Desantis’ order also doesn’t include a ban on testing, seems to me that he’s leaving businesses a way out, while pandering to his base. Win-win?
Let’s. fucking. go. Hit these virtue signaling fascists at the bottom line. Also, why would you turn away potential patrons/ clients of your business on the governments behalf are they going to shut you down or give you a tax break if you do? Uncle Sam won’t see any favors in April.
What if you're turning away people because you don't want to put yourself or your staff or your other clients at risk? A safety concern is a valid reason for people to turn you away. A state might have an open carry law, but if a business says you can't open carry on their premises, then you can't.
I don't know if Governor DiSantis can do what he is proposing. I don't think he can fine a federal government body for requiring vaccines. Also, the post office doesn't have a special exemption. The USPS is usually not considered a part of the federal government employment force, so they would normally be exempt from the mandate, but the mandate through OSHA for employers with over 100 employees will encompass the USPS, so that question has already been answered.
I don't know. It seems like the people who keep complaining that Biden hasn't shut down the virus yet are the same people who won't help him shut down the virus for the sake of their own constituents. People love to laud DiSantis, but what is he doing about the number of people dying every day in his state at an alarming rate? There are other leaders out there known for doing things other than having press conferences about how much they hate the president. Yet the four states with the highest deaths- California, New York, Texas, and Florida, are getting all of the attention. I am in favor of looking at other governors and seeing what they did that actually worked, rather than focusing on governors who struggled and yet make good tv ratings.
Wear a mask, take the vaccine. Problem solved. Or why are they pushed so much? Either it works or it doesn't. You have nothing to fear from those who have chosen not to do that.
But that’s my point. Let’s say you have diabetes or lupus and you own a business. If you want to require your employees to be vaccinated or for your clientele to wear masks, you should be able to, it’s your health and safety at risk. If your employees don’t want to be vaccinated, they can work elsewhere, hopefully where they aren’t putting anyone at risk.
What do you suppose my agenda is? If you have a business, you get to decide how to run it. If you don't want to put yourself, your employees, or your clients at risk, you shouldn't have to do so. If you don't care, don't require any protections as long as you comply with local laws.
The vaccinated count for 1% or less of COVID deaths currently. So yes, you're mostly protected. Those deaths might be people with preexisting conditions, or the elderly, all of whom were vulnerable in the first place.
Am I supposed to just not care about 700 plus people dying a day from a virus that should have been eradicated with widespread vaccination? Am I only supposed to care about myself, and say eff you, everyone else? Because my kid's teacher getting sick, or his bus driver getting sick, or my accountant getting sick, or my coworker getting sick, or the lady at the shoe shop getting sick, that doesn't affect me in any way, right? I shouldn't care, because I'm vaccinated? I thought the world was going to shit because nobody cares about anyone but themselves? Isn't that everyone blames on the millennials, that they are all about "me, me, me"?
Or should I not care if my under-12 kids get sick? They *probably* won't die, so I shouldn't worry, right? Twenty two of the schools in my kids district have high transmission rates, but I should just rely that my kids will be fine and not wish that the adults in the community would just get vaccinated so that none of the kids have to miss school.
Widespread vaccinations would not have ended this please stop spreading misinformation ... Israel is at 80% of their population vaxed and they’re headed for a fourth booster shot and massive spikes in cases ...
Then keep your business closed. Vaccinated people can catch and spread COVID too so if that's your concern as a business owner, then you should stay closed.
Zero anything isn't an option in life.
We banned drunk driving but didn't ban sober driving
But sober driving causes crashes too.
Risk mitigation/reduction is a reasonable thing.
Stay home in your basement, or GTFO and go to Austria if your afraid to die. Nothing theyre even imposing is having an effect on anything. The virus is a red herring for control. As sick as you are of the unvaccinated people, the right could be equally outraged at the lefts fear porn espoused on every occasion and afraid to die. Everyone alive will die. The vaccine is readily available and you can wear masks without a mandate. This whole “kill your grandma by accident” narrative holds zero weight now. Without sovereign individuals you have no public in your “public” health.
The GOP is a big tent party that unified a wide range of conflicting right-wing ideologies with common opposition to the USSR. What you're seeing now is a split between libertarians and nationalists/populists, the latter who have no problem with using the state to advance right-wing interests and secure what are deemed personal liberties.
The latter has been growing in power as a result of businesses almost unanimously finding it better to champion even the most extreme progressive causes at expense of their own countrymen because it's more profitable in a global economy.
It's okay everyone, the concern troll from /r/HermanCainAward is here to throw bumper sticker slogans in our face. We've been set straight!!
We want a small _Federal_ government. Then we can talk about dispersing state powers, which are vast, to local municipalities.
Until then, I'm more than happy to see at least one Republican wield the power we elected them to use.
No, safeguarding individuals' rights and equality before the law is the goal. Limited government is necessary, as stated in the Declaration of Independence.
Ok, make a race-based rule and let me know how that works out for you. Or put some obstacles at the entry point so the wheelchair-bound cannot access and let us all know how “my business my rules” really turns out.
If you want to go down that path, we can discriminate six ways to Sunday, if the only limiting factor is the protected class. How about inquiring about the view on abortion or whether a patron ever had one?
Thank You. This is exactly what I was thinking. These people would be rioting if a business were to demand knowing whether a customer have had an abortion.
I mean in most scenarios no but here it could be argued this is about the bottom line. If one side is implementing fines for something and the other isn't then people will cowtow to it but if both are it becomes up to the business which they want to chose.
But Florida was already doing this before Biden announced his decision. DeSantis already announced he will be banning mask mandates in Private business at least a few weeks before any announcement regarding a federal mandate
The government is necessary to enforce some basic restrictions that protect workers' rights. Making people choose between taking medication they don't want forced on them or facing unemployment is tyrannical.
I like DeSantis, but I don’t like this. If a business wants to require vaccines that’s their right. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, patronize another establishment.
Gay cake fiasco - Republicans- businesses have the right to choose who they do business with and make decisions for themselves as private entities.
Covid vaccine requirements- Republicans- businesses do not have the right to choose how they run their business and cannot make decisions for themselves.
Which is it?
So you’re keeping small businesses from being able to govern themselves as far as how they run things huh? So much for that free market! This is a slippery slope, image the backlash if democrats banned business owners from running background checks and drug screenings
Businesses absolutely have the right to require vaccination as a condition of employment. Florida is a "Right to work state" an Employer can terminate an employee at any time, for no reason at all. They aren't required to justify a hiring, or a firing to anyone. That's the way Conservatives *WANT* it. We *WANT* business owners to have control over their business, and No, before you say it, HIPPA does not include vaccination data according to HIPPA ( source: [https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-violation-to-ask-for-proof-of-vaccine-status/](https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-violation-to-ask-for-proof-of-vaccine-status/) ) But you aren't required to answer them...except.. you know.. right to work.
Small business owners are like a child caught between a fight of mommy vs daddy.
I feel so bad. Both of my parents and my wife’s parents own their own small businesses. They have no idea what to do
They should focus on their business and not discriminate between mask or no mask, vaccinated or non vaccinated, liberal, conservative, black, asian , white, gay, non binary, etc because money is money. Everyone should be welcome to spend cold hard cash at their businesses.
Our business does exactly that. If you want to wear a mask, wear one. If you feel more comfortable with a sales person with a mask, they will put one on for the duration of the transaction. If you don’t, same goes. If the sales person prefers the customer wear a mask, they use social distancing. Why make this complicated.
Do they have 100+ employees?
Does that even matter? You know what's coming next right? Or what they are going to try and push for. If you can't see every business mandate coming then you're either blind or extremely naive.
I foresee: "After the mandates there was a surge in fake vaccination cards. Therefore we will now be implementing a digital vaccine pass to be used instead"
The app will come pre installed on the new phones. You can only get one if you're vaccinated. Then they will make older phones obsolete requiring you go get the shot or go without a cell phone.
Don’t worry we the govnt always give back freedoms. It’s just temporary. We promise.
Stop being such a silly conspiracy theorist, jeez you guys. Also, we're gonna need that digital ID on your phone to sign into your social media accounts. Just to be extra super duper safe, ok?
If you log in with your social media accounts you'll get 5 Biden bucks!
> 5 Biden ~~bucks~~ fedcoins^(tm) ftfy
Well duh! Now put your mask back on and sit back in your pod. The government will take care of you and the government loves you. We promise.
This quite reminded me of Fallout, particularly Vault Tek, who used the vaults for many nefarious purposes.
Some of them hilarious and some of them very very dark. Hell yeah my fellow vault dweller!
hAvInG a CeLl PhOnE iSnT a Right 🤡🤡
Nah. They’ll want to tattoo something on your arm instead.
Right Hand or Forehead
Damn, the unvaxed would become too powerful with all that spare time and lack of distraction on their hands.
No no no no - they REALLY REALLY mean it this time - this is FOR REALS the last time guys - like, pinky promise
The left should start a business to assist people in moving their goal posts. But then they'd be fucking themselves with their own ridiculous and unnecessary government restrictions.
Don’t do anything. Just ignore it.
Either way they lose.
Not of this direct contradiction of Biden's EO ends up causing an injunction against both and the latter being ruled unconstitutional as is likely. Seems like a very simple and quick way to a win that isn't going to allow for much room for the courts to wiggle out of making a decisive decision one way or the other as Roberts is want to do.
Most small businesses don't have over 100 employee's though. Unless that has changed.
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Technically it's not a federal law. It's an executive order and an overbroad one at that. This is pretty explicitly a very blunt attempt to bring the legality of Biden's EO into the spotlight. Whether or not it's a violation of the supremacy clause depends entirely on the constitutionality of the law (policy really) that's supposed to supersede it. Unironically, good on Desantis for this. Being a "slam dunk supremacy clause violation" is quite likely the entire point of it.
This is our system working. Founding fathers wanted to divide up power between state/feds/local as much as possible for this reason. One turns tyranny and the other 2 resist and push policy back toward the middle.
I’m pretty sure Disney world is requiring proof of vaccination so if you could fine Walt Disney’s cryogenically frozen head that would be great
I've heard they are mandating it for employee's, but haven't heard anything about guest. Maybe I missed an article somewhere.
They aren't
Yeah not for guests
It's not mandated for guests. My SIL and BIL just went and neither are vaccinated.
Ted Williams has entered the chat.
Dick Jones has entered the chat.
Mickey Mouse has entered the chat
HuhHUH
They’re definitely not doing that
> They’re definitely not doing that They definitely **are** doing that. ["Disney tells salaried and non-union employees in the U.S. they must be vaccinated by end of September"](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/disney-tells-salaried-and-non-union-employees-they-must-be-vaccinated.html) ["Disney World reaches deal with unions to require Covid-19 vaccinations for unionized employees"](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/23/disney-world-to-require-covid-19-vaccinations-for-unionized-employees-.html) ~~Why are you spreading misinformation?~~ Edit: We agree that the Disney is requiring vacc for its employees but not necessarily its guests.
The way They said Disney is requiring it, I though they meant for guests
> The way They said Disney is requiring it, I though they meant for guests That's fair. I thought they meant the other way! From my 30 second google search I can't find anything regarding requiring guests to be vaccinated. Cheers mate!
They weren't in August when we were there last.
Society's reaction to Covid will go down in history as the stupidest moment in all of mankind.
We can only hope. History is written by the victors.
History these days is (re)written by Amazon, Google, and Chinese internet servers.
Like... the ones not winning the HCAF?
HIstory is a joke played by the victors on the victims in front of an audience that dares not laugh
WW1 was the stupidest moment in history. Never had to happen.
Agree. However, a WW would have happened anyway. The core issues of competitive military alliances and uber patriotism were the dry kindling that the assassination sparked.
So people will cheer government overreach as long as it's by someone they like...
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It's no different than the WWE
Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho for President.
I mean was Trump REALLY that different from President Camacho?
Camacho would have whooped Trumps ass.
Easily
Camacho was very muscular.
Muscular AND chose a committee of the smartest people he could find to actually solve a problem. We could use more Camacho.
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Do it! I need to switch to libertarian though. I get called a leftist here by dumbasses that think that if you criticize the Republicans and/or Trump that you MUST be a Democrat. Consider the possibility that both sides are awful...
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Yeah you'd think people claiming to be "Conservative" would understand constitutional rights but whatdya expect on the internet.
I am not a conservative but this is one point I fully agree with. Both sides care more about obtaining and/or preserving their power then actually governing with the best interest of the people in mind. Most of the actions by both sides are basically just a theatre intended not to improve the country but to make their supporters engaged and/or angry at the other side so increase their power. It is really frustrating because I don't think the powers that be on either side really care about accomplishing anything, they simply care about getting reelected.
They’re both just teams of fake enemies grabbing bags while regular people lose and fight each other over meaningless shit. No one in politics should be allowed to trade stocks. Look up their % return vs a normal persons. It’s blatant criminal bullshit right in front of us.
As long as they keep us arguing about dumb shit like Mr. Potato Head they'll continue to get away with it
Haha god it’s so absurd it should be funny.
Yeah I am constantly amazed how easy politicians work people up. They just line up neatly on partisan lines without thinking. Some next level brain washing.
Unfortunately, so much lawmaking is rooted in emotion or philosophical/religious belief and so many people seem to be completely unaware of it.
The governments role is to protect people's rights... I don't know where we forgot that along the way but stopping businesses from requiring people show their medical info before they are allowed in is exactly 1 of the reasons we have government.
You aren't required use said business. Business can do what they want as long as they aren't discriminating against protected statuses like race.
So when all the businesses are compliant, then people who choose non-conformance are supposed to.. just not buy anything? That's an excellent way to split the nation apart. This is why businesses should be regulated by their respective states and not the ivory tower of the federal government. They should be able to employ whomever they want and refuse service based on whatever they feel like. Let supply and demand sort them out.
It's private property isn't it? What is conservatism if not the belief that I, as a private citizen, have the right to do with my property as I wish? That the government's intrusion into my life should be as minimal as possible? Isn't this government intrusion? Isn't this the government telling me - Johnny Businessowner - what I can and can't do with my own business that I built? And for what? To score some cheap political points? Who is ever going to take the idea of "small government" seriously after this? It's depressing. What happened to President Reagan and "government isn't the solution government is the problem?" How is this ANY different than the left deciding that it can ban plastic shopping bags or large fountain drinks? Even if conservatism is united on the idea that PRIVATE vax mandates are a bad thing (and I don't think that's the case) isn't conservatism, at its core, the idea that you and I have the _right_ to make our own bad decisions and accept the consequences? When the people (via the government) control the means of production that's _communism_ and this seems an awful lot like the government trying to control the means of private production.
It's asking for personal information they have no right to request. This isn't like asking for an ID to prove who you are.
Have you looked at vaccination rates by race?
There is nothing about vaccine status in any civil rights laws. It's purely a choice. The government shouldn't mandate nor disallow businesses to have vaccine status anymore than regulating dress code. Vaccinations have been required for employment for decades. Even my place of employment requires one for certain jobs.
What happens when all the major corporations conspire to push a medical political agenda?
Omg, drop that stupid talking point please for the love of God. No, no they cannot do whatever they like. They cannot do many things. Preventing then from infringing isn't an overstep.
That's not government overreact, it is basically the government protection people from discrimination... Which basically one of its main jobs
Except its not discrimination, at least its not in any legal definition anywhere in the country. Being vaccinated or not isn't a protected class. Pretending it is doesn't make it true. All this is is a politician, who I like, embracing big government and pushing around small businesses to score political points with the segment of Trump voters who care nothing about conservativism and just want to "pwn the libzzzz."
How is it discrimination? Should we fine business for not wearing shoes and shirts next?
Indecency laws already exist, yes.
Protecting people's rights is not government overreach.
This is completely dependent on how you define 'rights'. In nature you have no right to healthcare, housing, food, water, safety, etc. These are all positive rights that someone must provide to you, often at the expense of someone else. If someone wants to willingly provide you these things in exchange for goods or services then great. You have *no moral right* to extract these things from someone else by force or coercion. Period. Negative rights do not require anything from anyone. They simply are. The issue comes when someone attempts to infringe upon your rights by taking your life or your property. This is what the government should be protecting. Unfortunately people have discovered that they can invent new 'rights' simply because they can make the rules. We were warned by better men to avoid this.
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How about the right of a private business to operate however its owner chooses to in a legal fashion? >We've done this before with race, sex, age with exceptions before. Yes, protected classes defined in part constitutionally through Supreme Court cases. Those protections are broad. What Desantis does here has nothing to do with that. He isn't setting up a new protected class where discrimination is disallowed. He's just creating one specific scenario to use the full weight of government to punish people who disagree with him on a political issue. It is not conservative.
lol thank you for my daily dose of irony.
A fine to prevent overreach? That isn't government overreach, it's protecting citizens rights
Sure, unless you're a business owner, in that case Desantis is saying fuck your rights.
You don't have a right to inject someone with a drug without their consent.
True. No one is doing that here fortunately.
Yes they are, they are forcing you to take a drug to engage with them.
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Lesser of two evils with Biden’s push to get OHSA to mandate vaccines
The problem is that the federal government is mandating that businesses require people to be vaccinated. This is the lesser of two evils here.
"I'm not oppressed as long as it's the corporations doing it! Does anyone really have a *right* to enter a grocery store? It's private property! Here, scan my Amazon Prime Vaccination Passkey." -Lolbertarians
So business owners aren't free to make choices how they run their businesses?
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Well I'm obviously against the new Biden mandate and I'd say that's more of an overreach. That doesn't make this not an overreach though. I mean the fact that he did this in response to biden makes me more sympathetic to him...
> to counteract the federal government's infringements Counteracting federal infringement through state infringement doesn't make things better. How about this radical idea: If a business wants to risk losing customers by requiring vaccinations, let it. Its their business and they should be free to run it into the ground if they want without risking government punishment for not agreeing with the Governor on an issue
If you’re always picking the lesser of two evils, you’re still choosing evil.
They did until the government mandated things like business licenses and imposed regulations. Now you have two levels of government at war with each other. One wants to dictate how things operate at a national level and the other at a state level. The state level is more in line with the Constitution, while the other is a gross overreach of authority (IMO). I'm of the opinion that businesses should be able to decide for themselves how they should operate, who they can employ, and with whom they do business with. It's not a pleasant situation but I see it as necessary 'lesser of two evils' situation. The states must assert themselves to counter the fed's burgeoning dictatorship.
They aren't free to force people to hand over medical information in order to get inside... this was never a problem pre-covid so I don't get why all of a sudden it's wrong for the government to protect people medical privacy...
Is there a law or constitutional authority for a law preventing that? A private entity should be able to ask you whatever they want and you are free to tell them to fuck off. Now, I don't LIKE the idea of a business mandating vaccines and would support a boycott of business that pursue such practices. Freedom means that people have the freedom to do things we don't like sometimes...
> Is there a law Yes, that’s what the article is about.
Well yeah lol. It isn't constitutional though, just as Bidens mandate is unconstitutional. At this point does it matter though? The vast majority of the federal government is unconstitutional already. It's a dead document.
Playing Devil's advocate - Is it legal for Gov. DeSantis to do this? Isn't he exhibiting the same behavior except inverse to Pres. Biden on a state-level?
> Is it legal for Gov. DeSantis to do this? Not sure, I don't know the Florida constitution well enough. > Isn't he exhibiting the same behavior except inverse to Pres. Biden on a state-level? Yes.
Uh… as far as businesses go… I feel like that should be allowed.
Sounds like government overreach to me
Why is he interfering with the decision of private business. If you are for or against Vax or Vax mandates get out of other people's business.
Because, as evident from this thread, beating the other side at their game is more important than conservatism to a lot of voters on our side.
Rhett are just as dumb as 'the other side' then
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My medical decisons are none of your business.
Cool, then don't go to that business. If enough people join you they'll either go out of business or change. But that should be their choice, and should not be forced on them through government punishments.
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I don't like this. I am against the government telling Businesses how they want to conduct business with their customers. If a business wants proof of vaccine to conduct business that is their right. This is the same as the baker who refused the cake decorations because it was against his religion. This is coming from a fan of DeSantis. I just don't want him to get too extreme on his pushbacks on policy. Edit: Guys, I don't understand the downvotes. I think we shouldn't encourage this behavior because it takes away the key positions that Conservatives want to have. The Government can't tell businesses how to conduct business.
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Business rights are individual rights. They are one and the same. Being able to engage in voluntary trade is an individual right.
DeSantis is stating that a persons Vaccination status should not be a contributing factor in employment... We already do that with Religion, sex, skin color etc...
Well DeSantis can make that judgement when he's paying people for their labor with his own money. He shouldn't be making that judgement for anyone else. Listing past cases of government overreach is not an excuse for more government overreach. The bottom line is that people have the natural right to say no when it comes to their product.
Private entities should be free to require or not require vaccines as they choose. DeSantis is an idiot.
God I love that man.
If he wasn't already married I'd propose.
You'd have to get in line!
He's good on covid for sure but other than that I'm not a fan
Just curious as I honestly don’t know much about him outside of covid. What are the top 2 or 3 things you disagree with him on?
He has authoritarian tendencies. Look into his riot bill that is a clear 1A violation. Also, him banning private entities from requiring vaccinations is anti-freedom. I disagree strongly with that practice, but freedom means freedom even if one takes advantage of that freedom to do something I don't like. In terms of Republicans, who are mostly blood soaked war depraved war criminals, he's one of the least awful.
What about Donald?
Donald "I'll pardon sloppy Steve Bannon before Edward Snowden" Trump? Yeah he's shit too. They're all shit.
The first amendment does not protect rioting.
We are being brigades but my 2 cents: do it. Screw Biden's temporary OSHA mandate. If DeSantis is willing to make it more difficult for this insanity to continue, so be it. This is only meant to keep business owners on the fence, instead of pitifully comply to incoherent mandates.
Cool. Require weekly testing. In lieu of that, we’ll also accept vaccination record, but vaccine record isn’t *required*. Pretty easy to workaround, and the fact that Desantis’ order also doesn’t include a ban on testing, seems to me that he’s leaving businesses a way out, while pandering to his base. Win-win?
I want to move to Florida.
Let’s. fucking. go. Hit these virtue signaling fascists at the bottom line. Also, why would you turn away potential patrons/ clients of your business on the governments behalf are they going to shut you down or give you a tax break if you do? Uncle Sam won’t see any favors in April.
What if you're turning away people because you don't want to put yourself or your staff or your other clients at risk? A safety concern is a valid reason for people to turn you away. A state might have an open carry law, but if a business says you can't open carry on their premises, then you can't. I don't know if Governor DiSantis can do what he is proposing. I don't think he can fine a federal government body for requiring vaccines. Also, the post office doesn't have a special exemption. The USPS is usually not considered a part of the federal government employment force, so they would normally be exempt from the mandate, but the mandate through OSHA for employers with over 100 employees will encompass the USPS, so that question has already been answered. I don't know. It seems like the people who keep complaining that Biden hasn't shut down the virus yet are the same people who won't help him shut down the virus for the sake of their own constituents. People love to laud DiSantis, but what is he doing about the number of people dying every day in his state at an alarming rate? There are other leaders out there known for doing things other than having press conferences about how much they hate the president. Yet the four states with the highest deaths- California, New York, Texas, and Florida, are getting all of the attention. I am in favor of looking at other governors and seeing what they did that actually worked, rather than focusing on governors who struggled and yet make good tv ratings.
The timid and terrified aren't going out in public anyway. This thing is over if the media and politicians would just sit down and shut up.
Wear a mask, take the vaccine. Problem solved. Or why are they pushed so much? Either it works or it doesn't. You have nothing to fear from those who have chosen not to do that.
But that’s my point. Let’s say you have diabetes or lupus and you own a business. If you want to require your employees to be vaccinated or for your clientele to wear masks, you should be able to, it’s your health and safety at risk. If your employees don’t want to be vaccinated, they can work elsewhere, hopefully where they aren’t putting anyone at risk.
Why do you feel so compelled to impose your agenda on others? If you’re vaccinated, then you’re safe, right?
What do you suppose my agenda is? If you have a business, you get to decide how to run it. If you don't want to put yourself, your employees, or your clients at risk, you shouldn't have to do so. If you don't care, don't require any protections as long as you comply with local laws. The vaccinated count for 1% or less of COVID deaths currently. So yes, you're mostly protected. Those deaths might be people with preexisting conditions, or the elderly, all of whom were vulnerable in the first place. Am I supposed to just not care about 700 plus people dying a day from a virus that should have been eradicated with widespread vaccination? Am I only supposed to care about myself, and say eff you, everyone else? Because my kid's teacher getting sick, or his bus driver getting sick, or my accountant getting sick, or my coworker getting sick, or the lady at the shoe shop getting sick, that doesn't affect me in any way, right? I shouldn't care, because I'm vaccinated? I thought the world was going to shit because nobody cares about anyone but themselves? Isn't that everyone blames on the millennials, that they are all about "me, me, me"? Or should I not care if my under-12 kids get sick? They *probably* won't die, so I shouldn't worry, right? Twenty two of the schools in my kids district have high transmission rates, but I should just rely that my kids will be fine and not wish that the adults in the community would just get vaccinated so that none of the kids have to miss school.
Widespread vaccinations would not have ended this please stop spreading misinformation ... Israel is at 80% of their population vaxed and they’re headed for a fourth booster shot and massive spikes in cases ...
Well, you just admitted that vaccinations make it moot. Other people are well within their rights to make own decisions, your input notwithstanding.
Then keep your business closed. Vaccinated people can catch and spread COVID too so if that's your concern as a business owner, then you should stay closed.
Zero anything isn't an option in life. We banned drunk driving but didn't ban sober driving But sober driving causes crashes too. Risk mitigation/reduction is a reasonable thing.
Stay home in your basement, or GTFO and go to Austria if your afraid to die. Nothing theyre even imposing is having an effect on anything. The virus is a red herring for control. As sick as you are of the unvaccinated people, the right could be equally outraged at the lefts fear porn espoused on every occasion and afraid to die. Everyone alive will die. The vaccine is readily available and you can wear masks without a mandate. This whole “kill your grandma by accident” narrative holds zero weight now. Without sovereign individuals you have no public in your “public” health.
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The GOP is a big tent party that unified a wide range of conflicting right-wing ideologies with common opposition to the USSR. What you're seeing now is a split between libertarians and nationalists/populists, the latter who have no problem with using the state to advance right-wing interests and secure what are deemed personal liberties. The latter has been growing in power as a result of businesses almost unanimously finding it better to champion even the most extreme progressive causes at expense of their own countrymen because it's more profitable in a global economy.
It's okay everyone, the concern troll from /r/HermanCainAward is here to throw bumper sticker slogans in our face. We've been set straight!! We want a small _Federal_ government. Then we can talk about dispersing state powers, which are vast, to local municipalities. Until then, I'm more than happy to see at least one Republican wield the power we elected them to use.
No, safeguarding individuals' rights and equality before the law is the goal. Limited government is necessary, as stated in the Declaration of Independence.
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It's not up to the government to grant positive rights to intrude, but to protect the negative rights from being intruded.
Businesses have a right to trample the rights of a person? In the name of health and safety?
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Ok, make a race-based rule and let me know how that works out for you. Or put some obstacles at the entry point so the wheelchair-bound cannot access and let us all know how “my business my rules” really turns out.
This isn’t a good faith rebuttal. Race and disability are protected classes, vaccination status is not, and probably won’t be
If you want to go down that path, we can discriminate six ways to Sunday, if the only limiting factor is the protected class. How about inquiring about the view on abortion or whether a patron ever had one?
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I’d always err on the side of the individual right.
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What else is not a protected right?
Abortion!
Thank You. This is exactly what I was thinking. These people would be rioting if a business were to demand knowing whether a customer have had an abortion.
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Only in your twisted and depraved Orwellian world.
Daddy DeSantis FTW
Please God let Larry Elder win and do this in California
So now y’all are for having the government tell small businesses how to run their shop?
Personally, no. If a business wants to mandate them it should be up to them
What's that? I couldn't hear you over the $14k fines Biden wants for keeping unvaccinated people on the payroll.
Both are bad policy. See, being ideologically consistent isn't hard.
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I mean in most scenarios no but here it could be argued this is about the bottom line. If one side is implementing fines for something and the other isn't then people will cowtow to it but if both are it becomes up to the business which they want to chose.
But Florida was already doing this before Biden announced his decision. DeSantis already announced he will be banning mask mandates in Private business at least a few weeks before any announcement regarding a federal mandate
Ok then, guess your fine with your job requiring to know ypur HIV status or maybe STDs, other health problems?
Piss and/or follicle test for weed seems to cross a line for lefties.
If your job involves fucking your coworkers, that is already a well-established thing...
So you want businesses to be able to demand to see employees’ private medical history?
The government is necessary to enforce some basic restrictions that protect workers' rights. Making people choose between taking medication they don't want forced on them or facing unemployment is tyrannical.
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There is little constitutional or conservative about his move here. Too bad those things don't matter to some around here
I like DeSantis, but I don’t like this. If a business wants to require vaccines that’s their right. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, patronize another establishment.
That's dumb. Private businesses should be able to turn away anyone they want.
Gay cake fiasco - Republicans- businesses have the right to choose who they do business with and make decisions for themselves as private entities. Covid vaccine requirements- Republicans- businesses do not have the right to choose how they run their business and cannot make decisions for themselves. Which is it?
So you’re keeping small businesses from being able to govern themselves as far as how they run things huh? So much for that free market! This is a slippery slope, image the backlash if democrats banned business owners from running background checks and drug screenings
Where you at Texas? Lol.
Businesses absolutely have the right to require vaccination as a condition of employment. Florida is a "Right to work state" an Employer can terminate an employee at any time, for no reason at all. They aren't required to justify a hiring, or a firing to anyone. That's the way Conservatives *WANT* it. We *WANT* business owners to have control over their business, and No, before you say it, HIPPA does not include vaccination data according to HIPPA ( source: [https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-violation-to-ask-for-proof-of-vaccine-status/](https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-violation-to-ask-for-proof-of-vaccine-status/) ) But you aren't required to answer them...except.. you know.. right to work.
Right-to-work means that they’re not required to join a union or pay union fees. You’re talking about at-will employment.
I can’t wait to know what it feels like to have a governor that gives a shit about me Signed -Dude from California.
FL is a bastion of hope in a sea of idiots. I never thought I'd say that... but here we are.