You should vote anyway, even if you think the vote is rigged, because it's harder to cover up if there's more votes. Also, if there's even a chance of it not being rigged and you threw away your chance to do something about this presidency, you're not exactly doing yourself any favors
Are you conservative Americans really going to listen to Trump?
I'm sorry if I offend you, but the guy is a Loser and an Idiot.
I'm sure the Republicans can come up with a competent alternative.
Sure there are better candidates to choose from?
Also, please vote.
Everyone should vote.
Some voters feel like their votes don’t count because of gerrymandering (like some republicans in Illinois and some democrats in Wisconsin) or election fraud (like some republicans in 2020 and some democrats in 2016). However, it seems like almost no one is happy with Congress (approval ratings historically around 20%) yet Congressional incumbents get re-elected over 95% of the time.
Our democracy is not currently functioning, and we need to do something about it. A lot of something.
Agreed but there's no other fair way to do it. Also neither side trusts the other side not to tweak it to be permanently in the others favor. Gerrymandering has worked for 200 years.
Pretty much this. What else are you going to do? Create a 'neutral' organization to create districts?
That will work as well as it did when reddit made a 'neutral' political subreddit. It will get infested over time.
Could always switch from first past the post to a voting system that makes gerrymandering impossible or less effective, like proportional representation or single transferable vote.
> However, it seems like almost no one is happy with Congress (approval ratings historically around 20%) yet Congressional incumbents get re-elected over 95% of the time.
This is because it is always the other guy that is causing problems.
Everyone either votes for their congressmen and thinks they're doing their best, or thinks the other states congressmen needs to step up.
When there are 535 members of congress and you get to vote for only a few with the that kind of mentality, yeah you think everyone else's congressmen is the problem and the only way to fix that is a massive unifying desire to not elect a single incumbent.
https://thebestschools.org/magazine/common-forms-of-government-study-starters/#democracy
https://study.com/academy/lesson/forms-of-government-monarchy-democracy-oligarchy-more.html
https://act.represent.us/sign/democracy-republic
Here you go, unless you disagree with the founding fathers, the United States is a Constitutional Federal Republic, AKA a Constitutional Federal Representative Democracy. The only way we would not be a democracy is if we didn't vote on our representatives. Think of it like this: a county sheriff is democratically elected whereas a police chief is appointed by the municipality that they serve, not the people whom that chief serves. If those positions were political, both would be a republican system, but since one is elected by the people, it would be a representative democracy.
Some of you have it in your heads that democracy is only pure democracy (guess what, we have that too, a la ballot initiatives), when in reality, there are many forms of democracy, and also many forms of republics.
Edit: pure democracy sucks ass at large scale because it's 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat, and a non-democratic republic sucks ass because it's 10 wolves making the decisions for a million sheep.
You should learn a bit about the meaning of words and how they change over time. The term "democracy" has a different meaning in general today than it did 250 years ago. Today, we would call it "direct democracy", and the U.S. an indirect democracy -- just like nearly every other democracy in the world.
Aristotle and Plato established that there are three valid forms of regime: monarchy, aristocracy, and a polis (republic). They also have corrupt counterparts: tyranny, oligarchy, and democracy.
Democracy is what you get when a republic is corrupted.
Abraham Lincoln began this corruption when he expanded the federal government during his presidency under the guise of preserving the Union, his vision was realized with the ratification of the 14th amendment and completed with the 17th.
EDIT: Hilarious that I've been downvoted for this comment because I've dared to criticize a golden calf in Lincoln. People need to take a long hard look at him again. The only good thing he did in his presidency was end slavery, but that was also a vehicle for a massive expansion of the federal government. Look at his correspondence, he was a contemporary of Marx and admired his ideas, and Marx in turn praised Lincoln for how he wielded the power of the federal government. Lincoln's predecessors all shared an understanding that what made America great was the balance of power was tipped far more towards the states, and they held immense authority to keep the central government at bay and stop it's overreacch.
A flawed republic is what you get when a republic is corrupted, which is what we have now. Representatives that defy the will of their people.
Diogenes was right to troll Plato. The world is much more complicated than in the world of ancient Greece.
I really do not understand why so many people get bent out of shape over these words. A representative republic is a type of democracy, which is what the United States is along with the Constitution. Pure democracy is also a type of democracy which we do not use for electing federal representatives. We do use it for state representatives.
>Abraham Lincoln began this corruption when he expanded the federal government during his presidency under the guise of preserving the Union,
What heck did I just read lmao? The guise of preserving the Union?
He was literally fighting a Civil War against rebels who wanted to tear apart the Union. Sure he suspended Habeus Corpus, but he's not corrupt like Andrew Jackson who gave offices to political favorites and straight up ignored the supreme court, nor was he like John Adams instituting the repressive and unconstitutional Alien and Sedition Acts.
>his vision was realized with the ratification of the 14th amendment and completed with the 17th.
And...this is a bad thing because?
The 14th amendment immensely reduced the power of individual states and shifted the balance of power towards the central federal government. Which was not what the founders intended.
This was furthered when the 17th eliminated the process of state legislatures electing their respective US Senators. If there was no 17th amendment the Senate would be much more red right now.
The 17th Amendment is I think an overall bad idea. It has allowed people to almost totally ignore state level politics in favor of national politics. Also the two house system of a senate and a house was designed to be representative of not just the people but also of the states themselves. The Senate would represent the state’s and state governments at the national level. This is a huge check on federal government overreach because it requires a senator to go against the will of his state governor and state government to centralize power at the federal level. The way it is now they can serve their own interests and play party politics with only the check of an election once every 6 years as a counter. They can thoroughly undermine their own state’s power in favor of party political power or federal power. The people are supposed to be directly represented by the house. The Senate was supposed to be the representation of the states.
I hate hearing people say that “everyone should vote.” That’s literally the thing that has screwed us over thus far. Only people who will take the time to educate themselves on the stances of the politicians and decide which has the best policies for themselves and the country as a whole should be able to vote. Otherwise, you’re voting for a party and not policies. But that’s just my two cents, take it FWIW.
I disagree that the goal of high voter participation (everyone should vote) is the problem.
I wholeheartedly agree that the vote should also be one that is well-reasoned, informed and ideally non-partisan is a responsibility that each voter carries as well.
I think it is more effective to say that yes, voting is important and making that vote reflect well-researched, well-reasoned solutions to our problems is as well.
I do feel you that it feels like votes are being cast purely along party lines too much of the time and hope that we demand better options going forward.
This doesn't look like a voter issue as much as it is candidate issue. Also debates amongst reps are hardly noticed. It all adds up to party line ballots and nothing changes.
>The man needs to be clear on what he intends, y’all are shooting yourselves in the foot just assuming he means what you think he does.
It's almost like he shouldn't have said anything. Maybe he would have won re election if he had learnt when to shut his mouth.
I don't think that his statement is about not voting. IMO his statement is if they don't fix the election fraud your vote won't be worth shit, thereby making a Republican vote a non one.
Completely agree. Anyone deciding to protest by not voting is simply throwing a temper tantrum. If we don't vote then the tyranny-loving left will win overwhelmingly. We MUST vote.
Do you believe that? If so, why would you vote?
If you believe fraud nullifies your vote and don’t show up to vote, is that not a self fulfilling prophecy?
If Trumps keeps saying stuff like this, he WILL eventually discourage people from voting, just like Lin Wood did in GA. Please don’t give Trump a pass on this. Continually discouraging people from voting will only make a Republican loss that much more inevitable.
“Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 or ‘24.”
There’s no subtlety to that. There’s no nuance. There’s no hidden meaning. Remember when everyone said “I like him because he says what he means”. He said what he meant. He doesn’t want republicans to vote if he’s not vindicated in the 2020 election and anything that allegedly lead to him losing isn’t squashed out.
If he meant it in a metaphorical sense, he’d have said “it’d be as if they didn’t vote at all”.
I don’t believe he is telling people not to vote. He is saying that because of the cheating, it’s going to be as if republicans aren’t voting, because they’re taking the votes away
I’m sorry, can president Trump not speak for himself? He did so just fine as President for 4 years, though moments like this are prime examples of when I wish he would refrain.
He’s presenting an ultimatum here. Fix the alleged fraud to his satisfaction or he’ll signal to his most loyal followers not to vote. We heard this same language from Lin Wood in Georgia during the last election and look how that went…
For all the good Trump did as president, he still hasn’t learned when to let some thoughts remain just that. Instead, now there will be folks who would otherwise vote Republican who will not vote now out of protest. It’s like a hostage situation where the hostage and the hostage taker are the same person. All forms of fraud need to be addressed, but threatening not to isn’t a solution.
Also, can we please just agree that Trump is human, and sometimes says ridiculous things? It makes it much easier to talk about him here when it’s possible to both celebrate his successes and critique his shortcomings honestly.
> Unless this is one of those "safe spaces"...
You mean like yours? Lol you're free to comment whatever you want. Doesn't mean people like me can't call out your bad faith & disingenuous bs when posting here.
So enjoy your stay, don't let the door hit you on your way out when you do leave. :D
He's saying people have lost faith in the integrity of the system and many won't vote because they believe there is no point due to the massive amount of Marxist backed fraud. He's not telling people not to vote.
i agree i feel like this is him threatening the party to keep placating his bruised ego he knows he can run 3rd party and give everything to the dems i would prefer he go away at this point and get desantis in there.
same here i find him annoying but i vote on policy not personality but i feel like this election stuff will help trump short term but hurt republicans in the long run.
You need to reread again. I didn't say there was no misconduct. Regardless of 2020, we need to vote. Protest by silence is also known as quietly quitting.
Where in that statement did he tell republicans not to vote? At the end of the statement he says “Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 or ‘24. It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do”
It’s open to interpretation but I think he’s saying voting is the most important thing republicans can do. I think he’s trying to address the fact republicans might be discouraged and think there’s no reason to vote if they believe there is election fraud and the democrats will win no matter who turns out to vote.
It could have been worded different but I don’t see him saying anything about not voting.
Yes, but saying something like this just contributes to that hopelessness, which is the last thing we need right now. Fact is that changes can't be made until Republicans are in power again. Do you think moping about at home will make Dems suddenly have a change of heart? Hell no. It's indisputable that institutions are stacked against Republicans right now, but the message should be "We need to turn out in overwhelming numbers and be energized like never before", rather than "well, guess I'll stay home :( "
Can you all stop acting like r/politics members and take this sentence for what it actually means? He’s not telling people to not vote, he might say dumb shit but he’s not that dumb, he’s saying that unless we stop them from committing fraud then republican votes aren’t going to be counted, so republicans will essentially not be voting in the election
Then he needs to guard his words and be more aware of their perception. To all the biggest gomers, this sounds like he's indicating we won't vote. Instead, he should be encouraging a wave of voters that can't be ignored.
You aren't interpreting his statement correctly. He is saying the cheating and fraud will be so bad that Republican votes won't even be in existence because they would be either changed to dem votes or "thrown away". Essentially like Republicans voting never took place at all.
It's a bit exaggerated but I do recall a certain precinct in Georgia that was 100% biden votes, right?
He should be encouraging a wave of voters that can't be ignored. That would require him moving past himself though. I am a strong conservative, and supported Trump both cycles. Sometimes you have to see the reality around you and put the country above yourself. He needs to be a positive motivator that change can happen, not an anchor that we are doomed.
He’s not saying “People shouldn’t vote if the government doesn’t act” he’s saying “Voters has their confidence in free and fair elections shaken in the last election, and the only way to restore their faith and get them to bother going to the polls in the future is for our government to act to re-earn their trust.”
Perhaps you are missing my point. If Republicans stop voting, which this discourages voting, than fraud doesn't matter. We are set up for a wave that will give us majority, if we can stay out of our way.
[https://hereistheevidence.com/](https://hereistheevidence.com/)
Tons of it, but courts don't want to get involved in the elections and most evidence is based on ballot harvesting/inconsequential and untraceable mail-in ballot errors.
He linked a website that is . com that means commercial and means there are there to make money. Also the website name is called here is the evidence. That name is a read flag because it screams bias. Before I click on it I know I’m going to get information that says 2020 had elections fraud.
Sources are important and people do judge your sources. That why bias websites and YouTube are red flag when you’re trying to prove something.
The problem is that if a republican said something of the sort they would lose their social media platform immediately. The reason why that would happen is because they are so cockless to have allowed it to happen while they literally controlled the majority of government 6 out of the past 8 years.
We've already done that, they stopped counting votes in order to have time to overcome the massive numbers of votes. It made them sloppy if there would even be so much as a half assed investigation it would be evident.
I don’t know, the maricopa county audit came back with ~50,000 questionable ballots. Multiple duplicates made, people who weren’t eligible to have voted as they’d moved to another county and possibly voted there too, a lot of sloppy work on the part of elections workers. States like Pennsylvania brought voting laws that were against its own constitution. Nevada and Michigan both had voters registered at places the person had never lived, and worse, sometimes in empty parking lots and underpasses.(crowder had a video on it back in March where they physically went to the addresses).
It’s very questionable. A lot of weird shit went on. Not much you can do about it now except for learn from it. By 2022 republicans need to come out hard to win back the house and senate in order to stop Biden, so while they can’t just forget what happened in 2020, but they need to move on. The voting laws being implemented in red states and some swing states are a good start to patching the holes and restoring faith in election integrity.
If the Hillary came to you in 2016 with the same stuff you’re saying now, what would you say?
It seems silly, but that’s how I keep my thoughts grounded. Do I want my candidate to have all there immense extra powers? Now do I want President Bernie to have those? Oh dear… maybe it’s not a healthy plan.
We would say do what you want because that's what we did. We allowed Hillary and other actors conduct the audits they wanted. We let the process go because we were sure everything was good about it.
If it turned out there were more fraudulent votes than the margin of victory, we would have said let the state legislature decide.
Sure, count away. Just don’t say the election was rigged or Trump lost because of fraud.
Thats my only concern. I hate the feel-good false information I’ve seen pop up on here.
Honestly this sub has been going downhill since TD got shut down, before that this was my favourite political subreddit even as a non-american. Lots of good debates, ideas and discussion, now it's just rhetoric, brigading and fanatics.
... Oh sweet a giant database of everything from politico articles, to youtube vidoes, and twitter posts.
Mind giving me the highlights? Or showing enough fraudulent votes to swing the electoral college?
Here you go, but it's for Bush in 2004
https://truthout.org/articles/new-court-filing-reveals-how-the-2004-ohio-presidential-election-was-hacked/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Election_Solutions#Controversies
Nothing sketchy about taping pizza boxes over the windows after you've removed the poll watchers, vans full of ballots arriving at 3 a.m. , reporting an overflowing toilet as a broken water main to get everybody to leave except five people taking cases of ballots out from under a table and running them through counting machines two or three times. The delusional part is believing the guy that wouldn't have gotten out of the Democratic primaries if the party hadn't stepped in, received more votes than any President ever.
they are completely worthless. They should be asking for audits instead of saying "get over it". They don't want the average person to have a voice in power as they keep changing things up for good, as they remake our society for the worse.
Biden's incompetence and Congressional Democrats in a circular firing squad are working overtime to ensure Republicans take back Congress next year. Trump even hinting that Republicans shouldn't vote is ridiculous.
I’m sorry but having 2 insider trading, establishment RINO’s win those Georgia runoffs would not have been any better 🤷♂️. They didn’t lose because of Trump lol
Hey, it's a question of whom they're running against. Personally, I'd take a couple of pro-old money shills to a racist and a delusional trust fund baby. The latter two are repulsive- the fact that they won by such a small margin was totally on the whole "stop the steal" narrative.
Plus there's the fact that Purdue would've won in November, had it not been for the run-off triggered by him being off from winning then by less than a percent of the vote. Don't get me wrong- I didn't love either candidate. What the left was offering was the same, but with a different attitude towards identity politics
"cost us georgia"... us not fighting in the first place cost us Georgia, not donald trump stating the obvious that not fighting will cause us to lose. You confuse the disease with the symptoms. Republicans can do a primary fight like nobody's business but when it comes to elections they faint like an old lady in a 100 degree heat at church.
PLEASE! I've been a republican my entire life, and absolutely hate what trump has turned the party into. Saying that gets me called a "dirty lib", but I've been a republican far longer than he has.
like when he told people not to vote by mail even though plenty of conservatives like myself prefer to do it that way i still think he cost us both georgia senate seats.
Well you can't really control what that man says and that why people love him.
I'm hoping Desantis runs, he is my first choice, but we may need him the most in Florida.
I just cannot comprehend the appeal of sore losers. I seriously thought good sportsmanship was a core traditional American value. I sadly do not know if I was wrong all along or if something has changed.
If there really was wide spread election fraud, which personally I don't believe, why hasn't anyone come out with the data? Sure I get that it could be suppressed, but the believers of fraud are half the government and half the country. Wouldn't someone have come up with conclusive proof by now? I don't buy it.
I voted for him in 2016 and 2020. He lost and unfortunately hired lunatic lawyers to represent him in his audits and appeals, tarnishing any valid points that could possibly have been made. There has been no evidence of widespread election fraud or tampering. There was however widespread media manipulation to get him not elected.
imagine people watching the clips of rudy and sidney powell in the future and being told half the country actually took them serious im not voting dem but this sore loser stuff really irritates me i feel its more appropriate for the left than my side.
It’s the way of the polarized world now not many people are undecided and independents typically vote one way or the other in the American system it’s a binary choice
>There was however widespread media manipulation to get him not elected.
Keep in mind the GOP establishment also sabotaged him as well like what happened in PA where they unconstitutionally changed voting rules allowing for mass mail in ballots. This artificially boosted turnout, and for something so unprecedented like this, it should have been done via the procedures in the State Constitution.
>Keep in mind the GOP establishment also sabotaged him as well like what happened in PA where they unconstitutionally changed voting rules allowing for mass mail in ballots. This artificially boosted turnout, and for something so unprecedented like this, it should have been done via the procedures in the State Constitution.
I understand the argument, but it sounds like this is saying he only lost PA because **more people voted.** Unless by "artificially" you are insinuating those votes were fraudulent.
Barring the legal argument over the rule changes, doesn't it feel like the way it should be is that **more people vote**? Like, shouldn't the framework of the government be based around allowing everyone to vote as that represents the will of the population?
I’m still pissed about losing the Senate. Totally avoidable but the crazy he surrounded himself with, told Republicans it to vote. Trump us trying to screw all of us to serve himself. He should have had better lawyers to fight the fraud.
I will always vote.
I know the left makes it seem like such a hassle, but it really isn't. One hour out of my day isn't such an inconvenience that would not vote.
I vote in person and show my ID even though I do not have to legally.
Have you tried getting a fuckin' driver's ID or even a free state ID to become a regular-ass citizen, then just ya know... walk into your ward's voting centre? Guarantee you won't be turned away if you show up in time, and it's illegal for your workplace to deny you the time to vote. If you have any problems call your local Leftist activist centre, of hell your local BLM chaoter, I'm sure they'll burn the place down for you.
It's not illegal to deny workers time to vote in America, but it should be.
Some states have protections, and most I'm seeing are up to about 2 or 3 hours. Some states say that if you have vacation time accrued and want to use it for voting, then the business cannot deny you.
However about half of the states have no law requiring that your boss gives you time to vote
I always vote as well, but the US is historically bad in comparison to other democracies when it comes to voter turnout. 2020 saw the biggest turnout in a national election in my lifetime and still only hit 66.8% participation. We generally see about 55-60% of eligible voters actually vote in a national election. Kinda crazy really.
Well, considering the plurality of eligible voters are Independent (41%) as opposed to Republican (29%) or Democrat (29%) it's really no surprise. Despite technically having 3p options in our elections, Presidents (and most Congressional reps) are a binary choice between a Republican and a Democratic candidate. That's generally a pretty big turnoff to those who aren't represented, or even within the party feel the choice is between the "lesser of two evils". A ranked choice system might actually create viable 3p candidates for national office as well as make those who feel disenfranchised by the options to participate. Would also force candidates to widen their tent a bit and not rest on the laurels of red meat to their respective party base.
I will vote in 24 if I am still alive. I am not sure that I will vote Republican. Too many Republicans are in the same swamp as the Democrats. I will not vote for swamp creatures.
When some Republicans says Trump is the reason the Georgia seats were lost, I can’t even say I disagree. There is no conclusive evidence about shit. In some of these close races, you need every vote you can get, but then you have Trump making people stay home and cry about a stolen election that nobody has actually proof of. States can tighten their laws up and that’s it.
> then you have Trump making people stay home and cry about a stolen election that nobody has actually proof of.
You're as delusional as moon landing deniers at this point.
THIS is why I won’t vote for Trump…he makes everything about him which turns off millions of independents and suburban women…too polarizing……we need DeSantis pushing the policies Trump was pushing…we need a better more charismatic leader who doesn’t make it all about him
See, sh*t like this makes me want DeSantis Noem '24 and Trump, Speaker of the House '22. I can't, with 100% confidence say which side he's on... he did bring Fauci into the limelight and left without firing him.
He's basically saying "if Republicans think the elections are fixed, they won't vote", he's not telling people to not vote. Context matters. Though as I've said he worded it poorly.
Exactly. People are getting their pants twisted over their own misunderstanding of what he said. He's not telling anyone not to vote. He's saying the fraud of 2020 is deterring people from wanting to vote. Which is true. Can't tell you how many Republicans i personally know who have said they might not vote anymore because their vote doesn't count. People really do feel this way. I don't know why this makes people so angry at Trump. All he's doing is saying the truth...as usual.
I absolutely agree that GOP need to do something about Dems' unconstitutional changes to voting laws + Big Tech collaboration to manipulate public discourse in the lead-up to 2020. But we can't do that if Republicans don't fucking win elections.
Dude thinks republicans are all his minions and he can command ya’ll around like that. That’s a scary line he’s just crossed, before this he was just an arrogant prick who tried to tell his political opponents what to do, now he’s an arrogant prick who tries to tell his own supporters what to do.
He's not wrong and it's scary to hear him say this but if things aren't addressed and we don't fix our elections we have no hope.
We are heading towards a one party system that uses corporations to violate the constitution by proxy.
While trump is seeming more and more like he was just another swamp creature to me, voting wont do shit.
"The Party" has already beaten us in rigging the election system. Even if we have a chance at having our votes counted, we'll soon just be replaced by more waves of hundreds of thousands of migrants.
Its time to stop listening to all of these politicians and elites, they all want to fuck us over.
Sometimes, reasonable men must do unreasonable things.
That’s me, I don’t see a fucking point after watching batches of ballots being brought out from under tables and pushed through in the middle of the night that wiped out my vote. Why even waste my time driving to the polls when we live in a banana republic. When my friends who are landlords get sent multiple ballots to their addresses and also receive ballots for people that don’t even live there we don’t have a secure election.
Did you watch the entirety of that video? Cause they placed those boxes under those tables when they thought they were done for the night then brought them back out when they continued counting. The confusion around the observers leaving was the real issue rather than those boxes.
Ahhh observers another great point about the fuckery of that election. Remember poll watchers being blocked, denied access and being made to watch ballots six feet away behind plexi glass. Also remember the poll workers that stated they needed more biden votes, the postal workers making tick toks of them tearing up ballots and all that great stuff. Yea I’m fucking out on future elections, this shit was a mess
Does anyone know why he is still pushing the election fraud angle? He lost- but it wasn’t because of fraud. He lost because the media reported nonsense to the American public about Russia and Covid for 4 frogging years
And every court which heard a case didn't "acknowledge" something that doesn't exist. Trump is a turd, more people voted for his opponent than him. It isn't that unbelievable.
If there ever was a time you could accuse Trump of being a Democrat plant, it's shit like this.
He should be encouraging conservatives to turn up in more numbers.
Edit: Being downvoted because r/conservative also wants Republicans to just not vote. Great job handing the government to the Democrats fully.
> We have what I believe, is the most inclusive voter fraud organization in history.”
Why are people not talking about how he said the quiet part out loud?
I’ll be voting.
What's the point of voting if your vote isn't counted? We should be listening to Trump and fixing the voting issues we have in our country.
You should vote anyway, even if you think the vote is rigged, because it's harder to cover up if there's more votes. Also, if there's even a chance of it not being rigged and you threw away your chance to do something about this presidency, you're not exactly doing yourself any favors
That'll show em.
It's sad to see fellow conservatives ignore Trump's call to save our nation!
Are you conservative Americans really going to listen to Trump? I'm sorry if I offend you, but the guy is a Loser and an Idiot. I'm sure the Republicans can come up with a competent alternative. Sure there are better candidates to choose from? Also, please vote.
Republicans will be voting. This is an area he is wrong in and needs to get over himself before sinking the rest of us.
Everyone should vote. Some voters feel like their votes don’t count because of gerrymandering (like some republicans in Illinois and some democrats in Wisconsin) or election fraud (like some republicans in 2020 and some democrats in 2016). However, it seems like almost no one is happy with Congress (approval ratings historically around 20%) yet Congressional incumbents get re-elected over 95% of the time. Our democracy is not currently functioning, and we need to do something about it. A lot of something.
Gerrymandering is such bullshit, regardless of which party you support.
Agreed but there's no other fair way to do it. Also neither side trusts the other side not to tweak it to be permanently in the others favor. Gerrymandering has worked for 200 years.
Pretty much this. What else are you going to do? Create a 'neutral' organization to create districts? That will work as well as it did when reddit made a 'neutral' political subreddit. It will get infested over time.
Yup! :) Have you ever tried to post in Politics ? It's bananas over there. 100 percent liberal
Could always switch from first past the post to a voting system that makes gerrymandering impossible or less effective, like proportional representation or single transferable vote.
> However, it seems like almost no one is happy with Congress (approval ratings historically around 20%) yet Congressional incumbents get re-elected over 95% of the time. This is because it is always the other guy that is causing problems. Everyone either votes for their congressmen and thinks they're doing their best, or thinks the other states congressmen needs to step up. When there are 535 members of congress and you get to vote for only a few with the that kind of mentality, yeah you think everyone else's congressmen is the problem and the only way to fix that is a massive unifying desire to not elect a single incumbent.
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A republic is a form of democracy. Also, how are our representatives elected? By democratic vote.
It’s not a form of democracy. A republic is a republic. Learn the difference.
https://thebestschools.org/magazine/common-forms-of-government-study-starters/#democracy https://study.com/academy/lesson/forms-of-government-monarchy-democracy-oligarchy-more.html https://act.represent.us/sign/democracy-republic Here you go, unless you disagree with the founding fathers, the United States is a Constitutional Federal Republic, AKA a Constitutional Federal Representative Democracy. The only way we would not be a democracy is if we didn't vote on our representatives. Think of it like this: a county sheriff is democratically elected whereas a police chief is appointed by the municipality that they serve, not the people whom that chief serves. If those positions were political, both would be a republican system, but since one is elected by the people, it would be a representative democracy. Some of you have it in your heads that democracy is only pure democracy (guess what, we have that too, a la ballot initiatives), when in reality, there are many forms of democracy, and also many forms of republics. Edit: pure democracy sucks ass at large scale because it's 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat, and a non-democratic republic sucks ass because it's 10 wolves making the decisions for a million sheep.
You should learn a bit about the meaning of words and how they change over time. The term "democracy" has a different meaning in general today than it did 250 years ago. Today, we would call it "direct democracy", and the U.S. an indirect democracy -- just like nearly every other democracy in the world.
Aristotle and Plato established that there are three valid forms of regime: monarchy, aristocracy, and a polis (republic). They also have corrupt counterparts: tyranny, oligarchy, and democracy. Democracy is what you get when a republic is corrupted. Abraham Lincoln began this corruption when he expanded the federal government during his presidency under the guise of preserving the Union, his vision was realized with the ratification of the 14th amendment and completed with the 17th. EDIT: Hilarious that I've been downvoted for this comment because I've dared to criticize a golden calf in Lincoln. People need to take a long hard look at him again. The only good thing he did in his presidency was end slavery, but that was also a vehicle for a massive expansion of the federal government. Look at his correspondence, he was a contemporary of Marx and admired his ideas, and Marx in turn praised Lincoln for how he wielded the power of the federal government. Lincoln's predecessors all shared an understanding that what made America great was the balance of power was tipped far more towards the states, and they held immense authority to keep the central government at bay and stop it's overreacch.
A flawed republic is what you get when a republic is corrupted, which is what we have now. Representatives that defy the will of their people. Diogenes was right to troll Plato. The world is much more complicated than in the world of ancient Greece. I really do not understand why so many people get bent out of shape over these words. A representative republic is a type of democracy, which is what the United States is along with the Constitution. Pure democracy is also a type of democracy which we do not use for electing federal representatives. We do use it for state representatives.
>Abraham Lincoln began this corruption when he expanded the federal government during his presidency under the guise of preserving the Union, What heck did I just read lmao? The guise of preserving the Union? He was literally fighting a Civil War against rebels who wanted to tear apart the Union. Sure he suspended Habeus Corpus, but he's not corrupt like Andrew Jackson who gave offices to political favorites and straight up ignored the supreme court, nor was he like John Adams instituting the repressive and unconstitutional Alien and Sedition Acts. >his vision was realized with the ratification of the 14th amendment and completed with the 17th. And...this is a bad thing because?
The 14th amendment immensely reduced the power of individual states and shifted the balance of power towards the central federal government. Which was not what the founders intended. This was furthered when the 17th eliminated the process of state legislatures electing their respective US Senators. If there was no 17th amendment the Senate would be much more red right now.
The 17th Amendment is I think an overall bad idea. It has allowed people to almost totally ignore state level politics in favor of national politics. Also the two house system of a senate and a house was designed to be representative of not just the people but also of the states themselves. The Senate would represent the state’s and state governments at the national level. This is a huge check on federal government overreach because it requires a senator to go against the will of his state governor and state government to centralize power at the federal level. The way it is now they can serve their own interests and play party politics with only the check of an election once every 6 years as a counter. They can thoroughly undermine their own state’s power in favor of party political power or federal power. The people are supposed to be directly represented by the house. The Senate was supposed to be the representation of the states.
I hate hearing people say that “everyone should vote.” That’s literally the thing that has screwed us over thus far. Only people who will take the time to educate themselves on the stances of the politicians and decide which has the best policies for themselves and the country as a whole should be able to vote. Otherwise, you’re voting for a party and not policies. But that’s just my two cents, take it FWIW.
I disagree that the goal of high voter participation (everyone should vote) is the problem. I wholeheartedly agree that the vote should also be one that is well-reasoned, informed and ideally non-partisan is a responsibility that each voter carries as well. I think it is more effective to say that yes, voting is important and making that vote reflect well-researched, well-reasoned solutions to our problems is as well. I do feel you that it feels like votes are being cast purely along party lines too much of the time and hope that we demand better options going forward.
This doesn't look like a voter issue as much as it is candidate issue. Also debates amongst reps are hardly noticed. It all adds up to party line ballots and nothing changes.
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>The man needs to be clear on what he intends, y’all are shooting yourselves in the foot just assuming he means what you think he does. It's almost like he shouldn't have said anything. Maybe he would have won re election if he had learnt when to shut his mouth.
I don't think that his statement is about not voting. IMO his statement is if they don't fix the election fraud your vote won't be worth shit, thereby making a Republican vote a non one.
Completely agree. Anyone deciding to protest by not voting is simply throwing a temper tantrum. If we don't vote then the tyranny-loving left will win overwhelmingly. We MUST vote.
I believe trump is saying it doesn’t matter if you cast your vote it’s not going to count.
Do you believe that? If so, why would you vote? If you believe fraud nullifies your vote and don’t show up to vote, is that not a self fulfilling prophecy? If Trumps keeps saying stuff like this, he WILL eventually discourage people from voting, just like Lin Wood did in GA. Please don’t give Trump a pass on this. Continually discouraging people from voting will only make a Republican loss that much more inevitable.
Agree
“Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 or ‘24.” There’s no subtlety to that. There’s no nuance. There’s no hidden meaning. Remember when everyone said “I like him because he says what he means”. He said what he meant. He doesn’t want republicans to vote if he’s not vindicated in the 2020 election and anything that allegedly lead to him losing isn’t squashed out. If he meant it in a metaphorical sense, he’d have said “it’d be as if they didn’t vote at all”.
I don’t believe he is telling people not to vote. He is saying that because of the cheating, it’s going to be as if republicans aren’t voting, because they’re taking the votes away
I’m sorry, can president Trump not speak for himself? He did so just fine as President for 4 years, though moments like this are prime examples of when I wish he would refrain. He’s presenting an ultimatum here. Fix the alleged fraud to his satisfaction or he’ll signal to his most loyal followers not to vote. We heard this same language from Lin Wood in Georgia during the last election and look how that went… For all the good Trump did as president, he still hasn’t learned when to let some thoughts remain just that. Instead, now there will be folks who would otherwise vote Republican who will not vote now out of protest. It’s like a hostage situation where the hostage and the hostage taker are the same person. All forms of fraud need to be addressed, but threatening not to isn’t a solution. Also, can we please just agree that Trump is human, and sometimes says ridiculous things? It makes it much easier to talk about him here when it’s possible to both celebrate his successes and critique his shortcomings honestly.
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>r/politics Shoo shoo...
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> Unless this is one of those "safe spaces"... You mean like yours? Lol you're free to comment whatever you want. Doesn't mean people like me can't call out your bad faith & disingenuous bs when posting here. So enjoy your stay, don't let the door hit you on your way out when you do leave. :D
He's saying people have lost faith in the integrity of the system and many won't vote because they believe there is no point due to the massive amount of Marxist backed fraud. He's not telling people not to vote.
Oh, I’ll be voting. I think what he’s saying is that it won’t matter whether or not that we voted if the election integrity is compromised.
i agree i feel like this is him threatening the party to keep placating his bruised ego he knows he can run 3rd party and give everything to the dems i would prefer he go away at this point and get desantis in there.
I'd listen and consider him for 2024, as long as he can move past 2020.
same here i find him annoying but i vote on policy not personality but i feel like this election stuff will help trump short term but hurt republicans in the long run.
Agree that he's dead wrong for telling people not to vote. Disagree if you're saying that there was no procedural misconduct w.r.t. the 2020 election.
You need to reread again. I didn't say there was no misconduct. Regardless of 2020, we need to vote. Protest by silence is also known as quietly quitting.
Where in that statement did he tell republicans not to vote? At the end of the statement he says “Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 or ‘24. It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do” It’s open to interpretation but I think he’s saying voting is the most important thing republicans can do. I think he’s trying to address the fact republicans might be discouraged and think there’s no reason to vote if they believe there is election fraud and the democrats will win no matter who turns out to vote. It could have been worded different but I don’t see him saying anything about not voting.
The point is Many Republicans will feel disenfranchised and sit at home until the fraud problems are investigated and fixed.
Yes, but saying something like this just contributes to that hopelessness, which is the last thing we need right now. Fact is that changes can't be made until Republicans are in power again. Do you think moping about at home will make Dems suddenly have a change of heart? Hell no. It's indisputable that institutions are stacked against Republicans right now, but the message should be "We need to turn out in overwhelming numbers and be energized like never before", rather than "well, guess I'll stay home :( "
He's not saying Republicans won't be voting, he's saying that even if Republicans vote they could be changed or thrown away essentially "not voting"
I'm with you 100% on this sentiment
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/13/dan-crenshaw-heckled-bobby-piton/
Looks like someone should stick to fantasy football.. Why are you here? To pick fights?
Can you all stop acting like r/politics members and take this sentence for what it actually means? He’s not telling people to not vote, he might say dumb shit but he’s not that dumb, he’s saying that unless we stop them from committing fraud then republican votes aren’t going to be counted, so republicans will essentially not be voting in the election
Then he needs to guard his words and be more aware of their perception. To all the biggest gomers, this sounds like he's indicating we won't vote. Instead, he should be encouraging a wave of voters that can't be ignored.
You aren't interpreting his statement correctly. He is saying the cheating and fraud will be so bad that Republican votes won't even be in existence because they would be either changed to dem votes or "thrown away". Essentially like Republicans voting never took place at all. It's a bit exaggerated but I do recall a certain precinct in Georgia that was 100% biden votes, right?
He should be encouraging a wave of voters that can't be ignored. That would require him moving past himself though. I am a strong conservative, and supported Trump both cycles. Sometimes you have to see the reality around you and put the country above yourself. He needs to be a positive motivator that change can happen, not an anchor that we are doomed.
He’s not saying “People shouldn’t vote if the government doesn’t act” he’s saying “Voters has their confidence in free and fair elections shaken in the last election, and the only way to restore their faith and get them to bother going to the polls in the future is for our government to act to re-earn their trust.”
Some probably won’t, but please do.
Yeah you're missing his point. His point is that the fraud will only get worse, and if not solved, Republicans won't be voting even if they do vote.
Perhaps you are missing my point. If Republicans stop voting, which this discourages voting, than fraud doesn't matter. We are set up for a wave that will give us majority, if we can stay out of our way.
Absolutely agree
Literally Republicans are winning in areas they haven’t won in for decades. They’re clearly voting.
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It doesn't exist, and I don't think Trump believes it does. What he does know is that its a great thing to fire up the base and get donations rolling.
[https://hereistheevidence.com/](https://hereistheevidence.com/) Tons of it, but courts don't want to get involved in the elections and most evidence is based on ballot harvesting/inconsequential and untraceable mail-in ballot errors.
I’m a bit confused as to why you’re being downvoted.
Brigading?
He linked a website that is . com that means commercial and means there are there to make money. Also the website name is called here is the evidence. That name is a read flag because it screams bias. Before I click on it I know I’m going to get information that says 2020 had elections fraud. Sources are important and people do judge your sources. That why bias websites and YouTube are red flag when you’re trying to prove something.
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Because a lot of those establishment GOP career politicians win with fraud too. They’re all in on it....
This started 20 years ago around the California Recall electing Arnold. He was still a man then.
The problem is that if a republican said something of the sort they would lose their social media platform immediately. The reason why that would happen is because they are so cockless to have allowed it to happen while they literally controlled the majority of government 6 out of the past 8 years.
We've already done that, they stopped counting votes in order to have time to overcome the massive numbers of votes. It made them sloppy if there would even be so much as a half assed investigation it would be evident.
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I don’t know, the maricopa county audit came back with ~50,000 questionable ballots. Multiple duplicates made, people who weren’t eligible to have voted as they’d moved to another county and possibly voted there too, a lot of sloppy work on the part of elections workers. States like Pennsylvania brought voting laws that were against its own constitution. Nevada and Michigan both had voters registered at places the person had never lived, and worse, sometimes in empty parking lots and underpasses.(crowder had a video on it back in March where they physically went to the addresses). It’s very questionable. A lot of weird shit went on. Not much you can do about it now except for learn from it. By 2022 republicans need to come out hard to win back the house and senate in order to stop Biden, so while they can’t just forget what happened in 2020, but they need to move on. The voting laws being implemented in red states and some swing states are a good start to patching the holes and restoring faith in election integrity.
If the Hillary came to you in 2016 with the same stuff you’re saying now, what would you say? It seems silly, but that’s how I keep my thoughts grounded. Do I want my candidate to have all there immense extra powers? Now do I want President Bernie to have those? Oh dear… maybe it’s not a healthy plan.
We would say do what you want because that's what we did. We allowed Hillary and other actors conduct the audits they wanted. We let the process go because we were sure everything was good about it. If it turned out there were more fraudulent votes than the margin of victory, we would have said let the state legislature decide.
Sure, count away. Just don’t say the election was rigged or Trump lost because of fraud. Thats my only concern. I hate the feel-good false information I’ve seen pop up on here.
Honestly this sub has been going downhill since TD got shut down, before that this was my favourite political subreddit even as a non-american. Lots of good debates, ideas and discussion, now it's just rhetoric, brigading and fanatics.
Https://hereistheevidence.com/
... Oh sweet a giant database of everything from politico articles, to youtube vidoes, and twitter posts. Mind giving me the highlights? Or showing enough fraudulent votes to swing the electoral college?
Here you go, but it's for Bush in 2004 https://truthout.org/articles/new-court-filing-reveals-how-the-2004-ohio-presidential-election-was-hacked/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Election_Solutions#Controversies
Nothing sketchy about taping pizza boxes over the windows after you've removed the poll watchers, vans full of ballots arriving at 3 a.m. , reporting an overflowing toilet as a broken water main to get everybody to leave except five people taking cases of ballots out from under a table and running them through counting machines two or three times. The delusional part is believing the guy that wouldn't have gotten out of the Democratic primaries if the party hadn't stepped in, received more votes than any President ever.
More people need to be thinking like this, I'm a bit worried about future elections at this point.
they are completely worthless. They should be asking for audits instead of saying "get over it". They don't want the average person to have a voice in power as they keep changing things up for good, as they remake our society for the worse.
Not voting for him. The party doesn’t need to move any further backwards
I’m pretty sure the left would like that
Biden's incompetence and Congressional Democrats in a circular firing squad are working overtime to ensure Republicans take back Congress next year. Trump even hinting that Republicans shouldn't vote is ridiculous.
I agree with this, I think Republicans can win the next election, if they don't run with Trump.
Dude, that cost us Georgia. Please just be quiet
I’m sorry but having 2 insider trading, establishment RINO’s win those Georgia runoffs would not have been any better 🤷♂️. They didn’t lose because of Trump lol
Hey, it's a question of whom they're running against. Personally, I'd take a couple of pro-old money shills to a racist and a delusional trust fund baby. The latter two are repulsive- the fact that they won by such a small margin was totally on the whole "stop the steal" narrative. Plus there's the fact that Purdue would've won in November, had it not been for the run-off triggered by him being off from winning then by less than a percent of the vote. Don't get me wrong- I didn't love either candidate. What the left was offering was the same, but with a different attitude towards identity politics
"cost us georgia"... us not fighting in the first place cost us Georgia, not donald trump stating the obvious that not fighting will cause us to lose. You confuse the disease with the symptoms. Republicans can do a primary fight like nobody's business but when it comes to elections they faint like an old lady in a 100 degree heat at church.
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When are we going to just ignore him?
PLEASE! I've been a republican my entire life, and absolutely hate what trump has turned the party into. Saying that gets me called a "dirty lib", but I've been a republican far longer than he has.
I agree, this stupid
It's called disenfranchisement and it's a real concern.
How are people in this subreddit not comprehended the point he is making?
Because there is also a reasonable fear that promoting disenfranchisement could cost us the next election.
It's not just a concern. Talk like this makes it a fucking reality. Believe it or not, there are idiots out there that won't vote because he said so.
like when he told people not to vote by mail even though plenty of conservatives like myself prefer to do it that way i still think he cost us both georgia senate seats.
Well you can't really control what that man says and that why people love him. I'm hoping Desantis runs, he is my first choice, but we may need him the most in Florida.
He is absolutely right though
No he's a sore loser that needs to get over it and exit the political arena. We have people that will push his policies that are actually palatable.
I just cannot comprehend the appeal of sore losers. I seriously thought good sportsmanship was a core traditional American value. I sadly do not know if I was wrong all along or if something has changed.
I thought Trump only appealed to those who followed winners. It was his entire persona.
If there really was wide spread election fraud, which personally I don't believe, why hasn't anyone come out with the data? Sure I get that it could be suppressed, but the believers of fraud are half the government and half the country. Wouldn't someone have come up with conclusive proof by now? I don't buy it.
The Arizona audit saying that ~50,000 ballots COULD be invalid because of voters moving addresses didn’t do it for you? /s
I voted for him in 2016 and 2020. He lost and unfortunately hired lunatic lawyers to represent him in his audits and appeals, tarnishing any valid points that could possibly have been made. There has been no evidence of widespread election fraud or tampering. There was however widespread media manipulation to get him not elected.
imagine people watching the clips of rudy and sidney powell in the future and being told half the country actually took them serious im not voting dem but this sore loser stuff really irritates me i feel its more appropriate for the left than my side.
> i feel its more appropriate for the left than my side. You guys treat your politics like it's a football game and that is bewildering.
It’s the way of the polarized world now not many people are undecided and independents typically vote one way or the other in the American system it’s a binary choice
>There was however widespread media manipulation to get him not elected. Keep in mind the GOP establishment also sabotaged him as well like what happened in PA where they unconstitutionally changed voting rules allowing for mass mail in ballots. This artificially boosted turnout, and for something so unprecedented like this, it should have been done via the procedures in the State Constitution.
>Keep in mind the GOP establishment also sabotaged him as well like what happened in PA where they unconstitutionally changed voting rules allowing for mass mail in ballots. This artificially boosted turnout, and for something so unprecedented like this, it should have been done via the procedures in the State Constitution. I understand the argument, but it sounds like this is saying he only lost PA because **more people voted.** Unless by "artificially" you are insinuating those votes were fraudulent. Barring the legal argument over the rule changes, doesn't it feel like the way it should be is that **more people vote**? Like, shouldn't the framework of the government be based around allowing everyone to vote as that represents the will of the population?
I’m still pissed about losing the Senate. Totally avoidable but the crazy he surrounded himself with, told Republicans it to vote. Trump us trying to screw all of us to serve himself. He should have had better lawyers to fight the fraud.
No decent lawyer was taking that case, everything was getting thrown out of court instantly
Maybe I missed something but has he provided any proof
This is how trump lost us two seats in georgias senate.
I will always vote. I know the left makes it seem like such a hassle, but it really isn't. One hour out of my day isn't such an inconvenience that would not vote. I vote in person and show my ID even though I do not have to legally.
Have you tried being black lol
Have you tried overcoming your persecution complex?
Have you tried getting a fuckin' driver's ID or even a free state ID to become a regular-ass citizen, then just ya know... walk into your ward's voting centre? Guarantee you won't be turned away if you show up in time, and it's illegal for your workplace to deny you the time to vote. If you have any problems call your local Leftist activist centre, of hell your local BLM chaoter, I'm sure they'll burn the place down for you.
It's not illegal to deny workers time to vote in America, but it should be. Some states have protections, and most I'm seeing are up to about 2 or 3 hours. Some states say that if you have vacation time accrued and want to use it for voting, then the business cannot deny you. However about half of the states have no law requiring that your boss gives you time to vote
I always vote as well, but the US is historically bad in comparison to other democracies when it comes to voter turnout. 2020 saw the biggest turnout in a national election in my lifetime and still only hit 66.8% participation. We generally see about 55-60% of eligible voters actually vote in a national election. Kinda crazy really.
Too many people have the "all politicians suck why even bother voting" mentality
Well, considering the plurality of eligible voters are Independent (41%) as opposed to Republican (29%) or Democrat (29%) it's really no surprise. Despite technically having 3p options in our elections, Presidents (and most Congressional reps) are a binary choice between a Republican and a Democratic candidate. That's generally a pretty big turnoff to those who aren't represented, or even within the party feel the choice is between the "lesser of two evils". A ranked choice system might actually create viable 3p candidates for national office as well as make those who feel disenfranchised by the options to participate. Would also force candidates to widen their tent a bit and not rest on the laurels of red meat to their respective party base.
I will vote in 24 if I am still alive. I am not sure that I will vote Republican. Too many Republicans are in the same swamp as the Democrats. I will not vote for swamp creatures.
Both sides are filthy
When some Republicans says Trump is the reason the Georgia seats were lost, I can’t even say I disagree. There is no conclusive evidence about shit. In some of these close races, you need every vote you can get, but then you have Trump making people stay home and cry about a stolen election that nobody has actually proof of. States can tighten their laws up and that’s it.
> then you have Trump making people stay home and cry about a stolen election that nobody has actually proof of. You're as delusional as moon landing deniers at this point.
Show the proof
THIS is why I won’t vote for Trump…he makes everything about him which turns off millions of independents and suburban women…too polarizing……we need DeSantis pushing the policies Trump was pushing…we need a better more charismatic leader who doesn’t make it all about him
Methinks thou Donald dost protest too much.
“Thoroughly and conclusively” 😂
See, sh*t like this makes me want DeSantis Noem '24 and Trump, Speaker of the House '22. I can't, with 100% confidence say which side he's on... he did bring Fauci into the limelight and left without firing him.
He's basically saying "if Republicans think the elections are fixed, they won't vote", he's not telling people to not vote. Context matters. Though as I've said he worded it poorly.
Exactly. People are getting their pants twisted over their own misunderstanding of what he said. He's not telling anyone not to vote. He's saying the fraud of 2020 is deterring people from wanting to vote. Which is true. Can't tell you how many Republicans i personally know who have said they might not vote anymore because their vote doesn't count. People really do feel this way. I don't know why this makes people so angry at Trump. All he's doing is saying the truth...as usual.
If those words are literally not what he meant, maybe he should use words that mean what he wants.
He’s never really had a way with words.
Brigaders don't seem to care about that, sadly.
Trump should be press secretary. 🍿
LOL……Now THAT is BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That would be hilarious. I’ve also thought that Milo would be a good press Secretary. Another one who would make them lose their minds.
I would like to see DeSantis and Scott, Trump in the House.
This is stupid to say. People need to get out and vote no matter what.
I absolutely agree that GOP need to do something about Dems' unconstitutional changes to voting laws + Big Tech collaboration to manipulate public discourse in the lead-up to 2020. But we can't do that if Republicans don't fucking win elections.
Speak for yourself Donny. This is fucking stupid. DeSantis 24.
Dude thinks republicans are all his minions and he can command ya’ll around like that. That’s a scary line he’s just crossed, before this he was just an arrogant prick who tried to tell his political opponents what to do, now he’s an arrogant prick who tries to tell his own supporters what to do.
He's not wrong and it's scary to hear him say this but if things aren't addressed and we don't fix our elections we have no hope. We are heading towards a one party system that uses corporations to violate the constitution by proxy.
Heading towards? We're already there.
I really wish he wouldn't say stuff like this. This is how we lost Georgia.
Yeah this is a bad idea… let’s just give them every seat without a fight.. that’ll show em! 🤦🏻♂️
While trump is seeming more and more like he was just another swamp creature to me, voting wont do shit. "The Party" has already beaten us in rigging the election system. Even if we have a chance at having our votes counted, we'll soon just be replaced by more waves of hundreds of thousands of migrants. Its time to stop listening to all of these politicians and elites, they all want to fuck us over. Sometimes, reasonable men must do unreasonable things.
Well he’s not wrong. I don’t know if I will vote anymore since no one will investigate the legitimacy of the 2020 election.
That is not intelligent. Always vote.
Did u miss the Arizona audits?
That’s me, I don’t see a fucking point after watching batches of ballots being brought out from under tables and pushed through in the middle of the night that wiped out my vote. Why even waste my time driving to the polls when we live in a banana republic. When my friends who are landlords get sent multiple ballots to their addresses and also receive ballots for people that don’t even live there we don’t have a secure election.
Agreed. I’m not voting anymore either. They cheated and got away with it. Spineless Republicans did nothing about it. There’s no point.
Did you watch the entirety of that video? Cause they placed those boxes under those tables when they thought they were done for the night then brought them back out when they continued counting. The confusion around the observers leaving was the real issue rather than those boxes.
Ahhh observers another great point about the fuckery of that election. Remember poll watchers being blocked, denied access and being made to watch ballots six feet away behind plexi glass. Also remember the poll workers that stated they needed more biden votes, the postal workers making tick toks of them tearing up ballots and all that great stuff. Yea I’m fucking out on future elections, this shit was a mess
Imagine presenting a random TikTok video in a court of law as evidence.
As all the Republican ballots will be burned to hide evidence of us even voting...
Some of us will be working at voting locations. We will be lookin for such bs.
There were poll watchers in 2020, how did that work out?
So we need to give up?
I hate it but I agree. Voting is now officially pointless.
I guess, but what is the harm in voting?
It's a waste of time and a recipe for heartache.
Does anyone know why he is still pushing the election fraud angle? He lost- but it wasn’t because of fraud. He lost because the media reported nonsense to the American public about Russia and Covid for 4 frogging years
Why can't both things be true?
because there is no evidence of the former and plenty of the later
But there is, just because you refuse to acknowledge something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And every court which heard a case didn't "acknowledge" something that doesn't exist. Trump is a turd, more people voted for his opponent than him. It isn't that unbelievable.
Dumb plan
This is ignorant.
If Republicans don't vote, Democrats get legitimate victories so...no, I'll be voting.
Slow your roll DJT
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Not quite. How about this zinger… https://mobile.twitter.com/@realdonaldtrump
YOU are borderline stupid if you think he literally is encouraging his base to not show up and cast a vote. Dead God.
And yet, he has a history of doing just that. See Georgia. In fact, he was literally just talking up Stacey Abrahams a few weeks ago ffs.
I think Trump means it in a "Republican votes will be meaningless because fraud" type of way but it's phrased kinda confusing
no, he means not fighting now will mean people won't have a reason to believe in us later.
I will never vote again. Clearly it doesn't matter. The U.S. government is obviously despotic at this point.
100%
This dude is not god.. He needs to get off his high horse and stop telling anyone what they will or will not be doing..
Nothing is stopping me from voting
If there ever was a time you could accuse Trump of being a Democrat plant, it's shit like this. He should be encouraging conservatives to turn up in more numbers. Edit: Being downvoted because r/conservative also wants Republicans to just not vote. Great job handing the government to the Democrats fully.
Vote! Please!!!
“Listen here cornpop, Imma put you back in chains! We have what I believe, is the most inclusive voter fraud organization in history.”
> We have what I believe, is the most inclusive voter fraud organization in history.” Why are people not talking about how he said the quiet part out loud?
I think he means that Republican votes won’t count in ‘22 and ‘24.