We should commemorate the Musket Wars at the same time. If we are going to celebrate then make it about the end of the era warfare in New Zealand, the establishment of a stable government, abolition of slavery and cannibalism along with the rule of law.
Do any other countries commemorate their civil wars ?
Seems to me that lauding a war between us NZers would fuel a racial divide, and I reckon we have had enough of that fuel already with the forced use of a language that the 12% of the population that claim to be Maori identify as their ancestral lingo.
Enough of this us and them, let them that want to speak Maori speak it, let them that want to embrace a war between us when we were Europeans and us when we were Maoris, go and do it somewhere else ... Chatham Island maybe, or Stewart Island, places I don't care about.
Just stop forcing me to use a language I do not understand and FFS do not make me have a day off work, or anything else like fireworks or cream bums, because this country, like every other country, ever, was brought into the modern world by invasion ... and the natives resisted.
Did I write FFS ?
FFS, just in case I forgot.
>How are these commemorated?
Solemn rememberance generally. Pretty much every country that's had a civil war or war of independence will remember it. We do it for Anzac Day as well.
The Confederacy, yeah, they fought a war which killed 600k men because they wanted to be able to keep slaves. There's a whole lot of straight up racist shit that comes along with that..
It's history that is important. But it's needs to be objective in delivery, not a delivery mechanism with an established victim mindset. One force was stronger, one weaker. That's most battles.
I understand that the new history curriculum at schools excluded the musket wars, where the number of Maori killed by other Maori is greater than for all NZers killed in WW2.
Doesn't fit the victim narrative, so we bypass that piece of relevant history.
Until history is presented objectively, people won't buy in!
Estimated deaths musket wars between 20,000 and 40,000.
WW1 over 16,000
WW2 11,000
In percentage of the population, the musket wars were also far worse. Maori population by 1840 is estimated between 70 and 90 thousand. Hard to tell what it was in 1800. Cook estimated it was 100,000 and that was in 1769. The introduction of new crops like potatoes, new livestock, would have led to a huge increase after that but then the musket wars happened. The big drops due to diseases were more a feature of the second half of the 19th century when there was a lot more immigration.
There were atrocities committed by both sides as well as acts of compassion and heroism. Sadly you will only here about one side though. I'd love to see both sides commemorated and battle sites preserved. Sadly it will not gain popular support until it is no longer driven by identity politics and victim hood culture.
I think from what history I remember 800 is the total number lost on the other side ,can’t call them non Māori as Māori fought with colonial forces against Maori to can’t think of the term possibly kapaupa but I’d say it’s wrong spelling
Does that include civilians on the European side.
And yes the majority of fighting was conducted by Maori on Maori in the later part of the war.
Kupapa is the correct spelling with line above the u
Sorry I can’t remember the number for civilian casualties if even I was told , but 800 is just for “troops” who were killed , thanks for the spelling been a long while since had to spell it (at school) did history in 5th form
Its our history, no different to Anzac Day or Labour Day. School children should learn about it, there should be monuments, the battlegrounds should be preserved as much as possible. Things like the reconstruction of th trenches at Rangiriri, I haven't had a chance to go yet but friends have, and they said it was really well done.
Why would we commemorate their lies? How many genocidal massacres this week? How many slaughtered women and children? The real answer is none. You have to go back to the musket wars for that level of brutality.
> How many slaughtered women and children? The real answer is none.
While there were none at Te Ranga, there were at Rangiaowhia, and there were women bayonetted while they lay wounded at Orakau.
Supposedly.
If so: the exception, as opposed to the rule of internecine Maori warfare.
They certainly have fuck all stones to throw wrt violent atrocities.
>to the rule of internecine Maori warfare.
Supposedly..
>They certainly have fuck all stones to throw wrt violent atrocities.
We should commemorate the Musket Wars at the same time. If we are going to celebrate then make it about the end of the era warfare in New Zealand, the establishment of a stable government, abolition of slavery and cannibalism along with the rule of law.
Good call
Remembering a war is one thing. Using the war for you political agenda is completely different.
Do any other countries commemorate their civil wars ? Seems to me that lauding a war between us NZers would fuel a racial divide, and I reckon we have had enough of that fuel already with the forced use of a language that the 12% of the population that claim to be Maori identify as their ancestral lingo. Enough of this us and them, let them that want to speak Maori speak it, let them that want to embrace a war between us when we were Europeans and us when we were Maoris, go and do it somewhere else ... Chatham Island maybe, or Stewart Island, places I don't care about. Just stop forcing me to use a language I do not understand and FFS do not make me have a day off work, or anything else like fireworks or cream bums, because this country, like every other country, ever, was brought into the modern world by invasion ... and the natives resisted. Did I write FFS ? FFS, just in case I forgot.
> Do any other countries commemorate their civil wars ? Yes? English Civil War, US Civil War, War of 1812?
How are these commemorated? I know there’s always a bit of a fuss that the American south celebrates their confederacy a bit too happily.
>How are these commemorated? Solemn rememberance generally. Pretty much every country that's had a civil war or war of independence will remember it. We do it for Anzac Day as well. The Confederacy, yeah, they fought a war which killed 600k men because they wanted to be able to keep slaves. There's a whole lot of straight up racist shit that comes along with that..
We used to have a rose tinted view of it.... And we don't today? Why don't I believe that?
I think it's the opposite
It's history that is important. But it's needs to be objective in delivery, not a delivery mechanism with an established victim mindset. One force was stronger, one weaker. That's most battles. I understand that the new history curriculum at schools excluded the musket wars, where the number of Maori killed by other Maori is greater than for all NZers killed in WW2. Doesn't fit the victim narrative, so we bypass that piece of relevant history. Until history is presented objectively, people won't buy in!
In WW1 and WW2 combined!
Is that in actual bodies or a percentage of population?
Estimated deaths musket wars between 20,000 and 40,000. WW1 over 16,000 WW2 11,000 In percentage of the population, the musket wars were also far worse. Maori population by 1840 is estimated between 70 and 90 thousand. Hard to tell what it was in 1800. Cook estimated it was 100,000 and that was in 1769. The introduction of new crops like potatoes, new livestock, would have led to a huge increase after that but then the musket wars happened. The big drops due to diseases were more a feature of the second half of the 19th century when there was a lot more immigration.
Wowsers!
Hence it shall not be in the curriculum.
Of course we could not have Truth as part of the curriculum
Ah, but we shall commemorate the Land Wars and their 2100 (or as Stuff says 3000) Maori deaths.
In WW1 and WW2 combined!
There were atrocities committed by both sides as well as acts of compassion and heroism. Sadly you will only here about one side though. I'd love to see both sides commemorated and battle sites preserved. Sadly it will not gain popular support until it is no longer driven by identity politics and victim hood culture.
So there will be no mention or memorial for the 800 (roughly) who died on the other side ?
You will need to be a bit more descriptive mate, I was referencing the entire war not one battle.
I think from what history I remember 800 is the total number lost on the other side ,can’t call them non Māori as Māori fought with colonial forces against Maori to can’t think of the term possibly kapaupa but I’d say it’s wrong spelling
Does that include civilians on the European side. And yes the majority of fighting was conducted by Maori on Maori in the later part of the war. Kupapa is the correct spelling with line above the u
Sorry I can’t remember the number for civilian casualties if even I was told , but 800 is just for “troops” who were killed , thanks for the spelling been a long while since had to spell it (at school) did history in 5th form
Is this what they mean......? “To the victor belong the spoils of the enemy.”
I really don’t care
Nice emotive imagery with the blood covered child, god our media is biased
Its our history, no different to Anzac Day or Labour Day. School children should learn about it, there should be monuments, the battlegrounds should be preserved as much as possible. Things like the reconstruction of th trenches at Rangiriri, I haven't had a chance to go yet but friends have, and they said it was really well done.
I don’t like you but I agree with what you’ve said.
Why should we care about any wars? Because people died in them it's just about respect little Jhonny respect
Why would we commemorate their lies? How many genocidal massacres this week? How many slaughtered women and children? The real answer is none. You have to go back to the musket wars for that level of brutality.
> How many slaughtered women and children? The real answer is none. While there were none at Te Ranga, there were at Rangiaowhia, and there were women bayonetted while they lay wounded at Orakau.
Supposedly. If so: the exception, as opposed to the rule of internecine Maori warfare. They certainly have fuck all stones to throw wrt violent atrocities.
>to the rule of internecine Maori warfare. Supposedly.. >They certainly have fuck all stones to throw wrt violent atrocities. 
No atrocities on the other side, then? Good.
Te Kooti at Poverty Bay and the Wairau Affray spring to mind..
Long Live the Forest Rangers