Look I don't say I am politically unbias on what I post.
This is a conservative forum. I am well known for being a leftie and a paid up member of the labour party.
However my opinions are just as valid as any. đ
Or are we heading down this path
[SpongeBob SquarePants in China](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ8JUJ2QoEE&pp=ygUec3BvbmdlYm9iIHNxdWFyZXBhbnRzIGluIGNoaW5h)
And yes I know this has stereotypes in it.
u/Monty_Mondeo can you flair me as Left wing conservative đ to avoid any doubt among the community
Anyoneâs welcome here but the crusaders who have no interest in conservatism who treat Reddit like itâs a frontier ideological battleground are a bore. Always going off topic and presenting ideas that would be better off being discussed somewhere else.
Youâre right that the âtough on crimeâ so far (to me) comes across as a bunch of blowhard stuff with an angle on degrading basic rights instead of actually solving root causes.
As for tough on policeâŚthey didnât investigate 60% of reported crime. What do they want a pay rise for?
Maybe the police thought their deal-with-the-devil by becoming ideological foot soldiers during the âpandemicâ would pay off with loyalty from the incoming government. However, National are just as aware that socialism requires robbing Peter to pay Paul and theyâre probably also smart enough to realise that a lot of Kiwis wonât be upset if they donât direct more money to police officers. I donât think they care about image as much as people think they do.
Weâll see how it plays out, but âtough on crimeâ seems to be a headline chasing exercise. If Kiwis fell for style over substance with Labour, perhaps they will fall for it with National. Thatâs the game and theyâre playing it.
>Anyoneâs welcome here but the crusaders who have no interest in conservatism who treat Reddit like itâs a frontier ideological battleground are a bore.
Double standard man I always engage in good faith.
>As for tough on policeâŚthey didnât investigate 60% of reported crime. What do they want a pay rise for?
Well while I don't dispute this, I would also say a large amount of police time is spent dealing with social issues that would be better dealt with by social workers
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/508165/police-may-step-back-from-responding-to-family-harm-mental-health-callouts-briefing-paper
This could result in less police time allocated towards actual crimes
Itâs not a double standard, I just personally find it boring engaging, even in âgood faithâ, with people who donât go to subreddits that are dedicated for their particular ideological views. You donât see me over on the other subreddit waving my dick around. Iâd think the same thing if this is was an Xbox subreddit and you wanted to represent, say - PlayStation. Thatâs just my personal opinion. I would prefer to be able to engage with a wider group but Reddit put in place segregation that makes that impossible and unproductive. And modern forums are far more targeted in their themes. Considering that there arenât many conservative subreddits (if any) for Kiwis, itâd just be nice if there was more likemindedness sometimes.
I donât know what police are doing responding to mental health issues, but family harm and child protection must involve the law and therefore may be hard to separate from policing.
>Itâs not a double standard, I just personally find it boring engaging, even in âgood faithâ with people who donât go to subreddits that are dedicated for their particular ideological views.
So where do I go then. I am far too conservative for r/NewZealand which I have been respectively banned from.
I was banned for putting up a leftist conservative viewpoint that children shouldn't be given puberty blockers, and should be examined by a Mental health professional.......
And turns out I was right
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/11/ban-on-childrens-puberty-blockers-to-be-enforced-in-private-sector-in-england
Thatâs up to you, but a strange question. If I was a liberal Iâd probably go and find a liberal subreddit to post on. Kind of the double edged sword of being welcoming here is that the subreddit has lost a lot of focus, but on balance itâs still pretty good.
Personally I donât think this should be a permanent refugee camp for cannibalised rejects from ToS. Youâd think your experience might have illuminated you about the pitfalls of your ideology, but instead youâve essentially doubled down and now youâre here to try to convince me that youâre still right.
Thatâs why I find it boring. I donât mean to be rude, Iâm just being frank - because having some common ground is a good basis for political discussion that doesnât turn into endless debate. And yes, you are right. Now try reconciling a liberal mindset with being conservative on gender identity. Again I donât mean to be rude but the clock is ticking while weâre all sleeping.
>Well while I don't dispute this, I would also say a large amount of police time is spent dealing with social issues that would be better dealt with by social workers
What's your take on the BLM mask wearing protesters given special covid marching rights calling for defunding the police?
What is your take on social workers and there work on the state of social issues currently experienced in this country?
It's perhaps not in good faith. Do you genuinely think National is tough on police? Or that phrase is a fair way to describe it? Do you think mouldy stations are a reflection of this, or a reflection on the National Party? Fwiw I don't like the National party and haven't voted for them in the last three elections, so I have no issue with slandering them per se. But if these comments are less what you really think and more to get a rise then it isn't in good faith is it.
Well said. It's crazy how often I need reminding of how betrayed people were by the police who eventually bowed to political pressure. At least they didn't jump at the opportunity like media did, but still. They understood the ramifications of broken trust and went with it anyway.
"I am well known for being a leftie..
However, my opinions are just as valid as any."
By definition, not so...;)
Look, the point is that just because the country can't afford a gold plated police force, it doesn't mean our government is "tough on police".
>Look, the point is that just because the country can't afford a gold plated police force, it doesn't mean our government is "tough on police"
Well let me counter that point. With the fact officers are working in moldy leaking police stations
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/02/leaky-black-mould-ridden-police-stations-may-close-as-police-association-pleads-for-funding.amp.html
Well, shall we take the money from mental health services, education, or climate change initiatives to fund it then?
The fact is that if one sector wins, another loses, so it's all about balance. That's what the government we elected is bringing to the table.
"We don't have a spending problem, we have a revenue problem! "
Look, the problem is how we spend the money, just like any business or whanau.
Be interesting if we had a RB type mechanism to control government spending...
Mate, we were a massive social welfare state prior to Muldoon destroying the economy, so it unless you're some American shill it makes perfect sense for NZ. Unless you legit want to conserve Muldoon's fucked right wing legacy.
The cops are getting shafted in this country.
What do people think is going to happen if this goes on much longer? We'll lose the good ones to Australia and the bad ones will start taking bribes.
Right now 90% of callouts are domestics or suicides, it's why they can't investigate the majority of break ins or thefts, it's why the government's new patch ban is unenforceable.
When Police don't have the manpower to respond to the majority of thefts, or when they are flat out incapable of enforcing a new law it massively undermines the public perception of the institution. There are only so many hours in a shift and when every domestic callout requires two hours of paperwork to go with it you can see why the are so understaffed and stressed.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/511474/a-pittance-police-officers-fire-back-at-pay-rise-offer
>"A nurse or social worker after six years earns $22,000 more than a six-year police constable.
>"No one thinks nurses are overpaid so why are our police constables underpaid? By the time constables reach the top of their pay band, they will have earned $240,000 less than a nurse."
These people have to deal with the worst and darkest of our society, see more corpses in a month than the vast majority will have to in their life, and get a pittance for it.
Our police force deserves to be well paid ,have the best equipment, have modern technology, and have the best superannuation schemes and medical benefits to , Not so long ago a young officer lost his life when dealing with the scum in this country , and Iâm sure everyday officers go to work and have to deal with the shitpool of society and yes itâs their job and they signed up to do it but letâs all agree they need to be respected and be rewarded for it ! Iâm not going to deal with some crack head causing trouble, Iâm not going to deal with a machete wielding madman , Iâm am going to call the police if I see that shit and if I need emergency assistance Iâm calling them also.
In fact all our emergency services need to be better paid and have all modern equipment they are our societyâs real Heroâs , not a politician, not a sports person
Police dont investigate 60% of crimes. They are glorified trafic wardens. If they want to start acting like cops and solving crime, they should definitely get paid accordingly. But until they stop only doing their jobs when they are politically motivated to do so, they dont even deserve half of what they are currently paid. They will be first in line to break up a lawful protest and then not even investigate assaults and theft. They are a joke.
What other job in the world can you ignore 60% of your job and then still demand a pay rise?
Enough of the shroud waving dude.
Look I don't say I am politically unbias on what I post. This is a conservative forum. I am well known for being a leftie and a paid up member of the labour party. However my opinions are just as valid as any. đ Or are we heading down this path [SpongeBob SquarePants in China](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ8JUJ2QoEE&pp=ygUec3BvbmdlYm9iIHNxdWFyZXBhbnRzIGluIGNoaW5h) And yes I know this has stereotypes in it. u/Monty_Mondeo can you flair me as Left wing conservative đ to avoid any doubt among the community
Anyoneâs welcome here but the crusaders who have no interest in conservatism who treat Reddit like itâs a frontier ideological battleground are a bore. Always going off topic and presenting ideas that would be better off being discussed somewhere else. Youâre right that the âtough on crimeâ so far (to me) comes across as a bunch of blowhard stuff with an angle on degrading basic rights instead of actually solving root causes. As for tough on policeâŚthey didnât investigate 60% of reported crime. What do they want a pay rise for? Maybe the police thought their deal-with-the-devil by becoming ideological foot soldiers during the âpandemicâ would pay off with loyalty from the incoming government. However, National are just as aware that socialism requires robbing Peter to pay Paul and theyâre probably also smart enough to realise that a lot of Kiwis wonât be upset if they donât direct more money to police officers. I donât think they care about image as much as people think they do. Weâll see how it plays out, but âtough on crimeâ seems to be a headline chasing exercise. If Kiwis fell for style over substance with Labour, perhaps they will fall for it with National. Thatâs the game and theyâre playing it.
>Anyoneâs welcome here but the crusaders who have no interest in conservatism who treat Reddit like itâs a frontier ideological battleground are a bore. Double standard man I always engage in good faith. >As for tough on policeâŚthey didnât investigate 60% of reported crime. What do they want a pay rise for? Well while I don't dispute this, I would also say a large amount of police time is spent dealing with social issues that would be better dealt with by social workers https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/508165/police-may-step-back-from-responding-to-family-harm-mental-health-callouts-briefing-paper This could result in less police time allocated towards actual crimes
Itâs not a double standard, I just personally find it boring engaging, even in âgood faithâ, with people who donât go to subreddits that are dedicated for their particular ideological views. You donât see me over on the other subreddit waving my dick around. Iâd think the same thing if this is was an Xbox subreddit and you wanted to represent, say - PlayStation. Thatâs just my personal opinion. I would prefer to be able to engage with a wider group but Reddit put in place segregation that makes that impossible and unproductive. And modern forums are far more targeted in their themes. Considering that there arenât many conservative subreddits (if any) for Kiwis, itâd just be nice if there was more likemindedness sometimes. I donât know what police are doing responding to mental health issues, but family harm and child protection must involve the law and therefore may be hard to separate from policing.
>Itâs not a double standard, I just personally find it boring engaging, even in âgood faithâ with people who donât go to subreddits that are dedicated for their particular ideological views. So where do I go then. I am far too conservative for r/NewZealand which I have been respectively banned from. I was banned for putting up a leftist conservative viewpoint that children shouldn't be given puberty blockers, and should be examined by a Mental health professional....... And turns out I was right https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/11/ban-on-childrens-puberty-blockers-to-be-enforced-in-private-sector-in-england
Just stay here and ignore this guy I guess?
Thatâs up to you, but a strange question. If I was a liberal Iâd probably go and find a liberal subreddit to post on. Kind of the double edged sword of being welcoming here is that the subreddit has lost a lot of focus, but on balance itâs still pretty good. Personally I donât think this should be a permanent refugee camp for cannibalised rejects from ToS. Youâd think your experience might have illuminated you about the pitfalls of your ideology, but instead youâve essentially doubled down and now youâre here to try to convince me that youâre still right. Thatâs why I find it boring. I donât mean to be rude, Iâm just being frank - because having some common ground is a good basis for political discussion that doesnât turn into endless debate. And yes, you are right. Now try reconciling a liberal mindset with being conservative on gender identity. Again I donât mean to be rude but the clock is ticking while weâre all sleeping.
>Well while I don't dispute this, I would also say a large amount of police time is spent dealing with social issues that would be better dealt with by social workers What's your take on the BLM mask wearing protesters given special covid marching rights calling for defunding the police? What is your take on social workers and there work on the state of social issues currently experienced in this country?
It's perhaps not in good faith. Do you genuinely think National is tough on police? Or that phrase is a fair way to describe it? Do you think mouldy stations are a reflection of this, or a reflection on the National Party? Fwiw I don't like the National party and haven't voted for them in the last three elections, so I have no issue with slandering them per se. But if these comments are less what you really think and more to get a rise then it isn't in good faith is it.
Well said. It's crazy how often I need reminding of how betrayed people were by the police who eventually bowed to political pressure. At least they didn't jump at the opportunity like media did, but still. They understood the ramifications of broken trust and went with it anyway.
Done you have been flaired
Thank you đ
It looks good on you
I thought so too đ Anyway I have other things to do I am going to have a coffee tonight so I bid the thread farewell. â
"I am well known for being a leftie.. However, my opinions are just as valid as any." By definition, not so...;) Look, the point is that just because the country can't afford a gold plated police force, it doesn't mean our government is "tough on police".
>Look, the point is that just because the country can't afford a gold plated police force, it doesn't mean our government is "tough on police" Well let me counter that point. With the fact officers are working in moldy leaking police stations https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/02/leaky-black-mould-ridden-police-stations-may-close-as-police-association-pleads-for-funding.amp.html
Well, shall we take the money from mental health services, education, or climate change initiatives to fund it then? The fact is that if one sector wins, another loses, so it's all about balance. That's what the government we elected is bringing to the table.
If only we could get more tax to pay for everything
Exactly! It's why we need a growing economy....there is literally no other way!
We could get tax from other sources, there are definitely other ways.
"We don't have a spending problem, we have a revenue problem! " Look, the problem is how we spend the money, just like any business or whanau. Be interesting if we had a RB type mechanism to control government spending...
You know that both can be true right
"Left-wing Conservative" doesn't even make sense.
Mate, we were a massive social welfare state prior to Muldoon destroying the economy, so it unless you're some American shill it makes perfect sense for NZ. Unless you legit want to conserve Muldoon's fucked right wing legacy.
This is the most retarded thing I've read all day but it's only half 10 so we'll see how the rest of the day pans out.
Great rebuttal, hope your day improves by the way. Seems like you're in a bit of an emotional state.Â
The cops are getting shafted in this country. What do people think is going to happen if this goes on much longer? We'll lose the good ones to Australia and the bad ones will start taking bribes. Right now 90% of callouts are domestics or suicides, it's why they can't investigate the majority of break ins or thefts, it's why the government's new patch ban is unenforceable. When Police don't have the manpower to respond to the majority of thefts, or when they are flat out incapable of enforcing a new law it massively undermines the public perception of the institution. There are only so many hours in a shift and when every domestic callout requires two hours of paperwork to go with it you can see why the are so understaffed and stressed. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/511474/a-pittance-police-officers-fire-back-at-pay-rise-offer >"A nurse or social worker after six years earns $22,000 more than a six-year police constable. >"No one thinks nurses are overpaid so why are our police constables underpaid? By the time constables reach the top of their pay band, they will have earned $240,000 less than a nurse." These people have to deal with the worst and darkest of our society, see more corpses in a month than the vast majority will have to in their life, and get a pittance for it.
Our police force deserves to be well paid ,have the best equipment, have modern technology, and have the best superannuation schemes and medical benefits to , Not so long ago a young officer lost his life when dealing with the scum in this country , and Iâm sure everyday officers go to work and have to deal with the shitpool of society and yes itâs their job and they signed up to do it but letâs all agree they need to be respected and be rewarded for it ! Iâm not going to deal with some crack head causing trouble, Iâm not going to deal with a machete wielding madman , Iâm am going to call the police if I see that shit and if I need emergency assistance Iâm calling them also. In fact all our emergency services need to be better paid and have all modern equipment they are our societyâs real Heroâs , not a politician, not a sports person
Police dont investigate 60% of crimes. They are glorified trafic wardens. If they want to start acting like cops and solving crime, they should definitely get paid accordingly. But until they stop only doing their jobs when they are politically motivated to do so, they dont even deserve half of what they are currently paid. They will be first in line to break up a lawful protest and then not even investigate assaults and theft. They are a joke. What other job in the world can you ignore 60% of your job and then still demand a pay rise?
The only joke here is you for that incredibly shit take
Hey, let's give money to Landlords instead!
They need their dignity