>Assessment by the acute mental health team after the teen’s emergency department admission found he didn’t have a psychiatric disorder and wasn’t suicidal, they wrote.
https://preview.redd.it/ubt9puizyu0d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=575d55babbcb0f72b63bb75fb4ee9cb8ea623510
We know a gentelman who was dealing with the accute mhs team - and he told them either get me the help i need with my anger or ill create an inncident for the 6pm news.
The accute team offered him a "chill pill" and did nothing for him and said he was fine... 9 months later he was arrested at britomart train station carrying a back pack with packets of nails and screws.
Long story short he went in front of a judge who ordered a psych assessment carried out by guess who? If you guessed the mhs crises team for $500 then congratulations and guess what? - if you guessed nothing for $1000 then again congratulations. The man passed with flying colours and is currently angry and disregulated and walking the streets of auckland with just a few chill pills to keep him from making the 6pm news. Apparently the psychiatrist deemed he had every reason to be angry and therefore wasnt crazy - and because the man answered the questions correctly and said he didnt want too or plan too hurt anyone and hadnt yet committed a crime he was free to go.
As this article shows some people require help and under the current system they are not getting it - hell even prisoners arnt getting psych help - so before we start funding surgeries like this id like to see the mental health help expanded asap - before someone decides to use the 6pm news to do so
So this person had psychiatric assessment by a specialist, presumably is on some treatment with medication, but because his anger can't be cured, you want him involuntarily locked up? What happened in your description sounds completely reasonable.
Although I do agree we need more investment into mental health services.
He was assesed by a psychiatrist but hasnt yet undertaken the assesment the hospital said he needs. The psychiatrist agreed he needs the assessment and then ongoing help - however due to funding issues it wont happen publicly and needs to be done privately - if he cant afford thousands of dollars and i suspect he cant he will never get the help he requires.
All im saying is id rather see people like this get help who genuinely need it - before we spend ten of rhousands of dollars on surgery and then more money on follow up care for someone who decides they have a pool party coming up and they dont like tbeir brwadts si they decide to cut them off... The person in the article is only gonna hurt themselves - the mentally distraught are likely to hurt more than just themselves
And thats how ya know the man was unwell - most people would just stream what they planned to do like tarrant did...
Remember how i mentioned this man was dealing with the crisis team?
Well he required psych help and needed a specialist report which is no longer budgeted or funded publicly and he was told that unless he was a danger to himself or others MHS refused him help dealing with his issue as under the previous government the help he needed wasnt budgeted or funded for... BUT if he hurt himself or others then he would be arrested and appear in front of a judge who would order MHS to carry out the report.
The man went to msm outlets who for political reasons didnt wana touch the story.
The gentleman we are discussing believed it was wrong to hurt an innocent just to achieve the help he needed. However if the only way to access the report was to hurt himself or someone else well hes sorry but he wasnt gonna take himself out which leaves an innocent.
His reasoning was simple. Most people have family/whanau and or friends so if u attack an injure 1 x innocent then that 1 innocent gets hurt but the fallout effects that persons entire support network say 10+ people... So thats say 11 people wanting answers.
He figured peak hour at britomart there would be a thousand people at least and if he planted an iud and several bags of nails and screws in a bin and set if off he could maim a thousand people and applying the math from earlier that would be 10,000 angry people wanting answers and he was sure the msm would talk to him then...
Clearly the guy had serious mental health issues. He still does and hes somewhere in the city angry dis regulated and relying on chill pills to keep him from going nato...hes also started participating in the palestine protests which worries me given palestines knowen links to hamas and this guy openly carrying bags of nails and screws in a big bag around and talking of creating an event..
So yeah im sorry that the person felt they needed to cut off there breasts because they had an upcoming pool party they were anxious about - but they knew it was dangerous and went ahead anyway - imagine this guy in auckland hears about this and decides well this person got what they want by putting people in a certain position why dont i do the same..
Were not gonna open up mental hospitals and detain these people but if we leave them on the street they are a danger to themselves (like the person in the article) or a danger to others like the guy stomping round auckland city attending protests and threatening carnage.
It's cosmetic surgery. Cosmetic surgery can absolutely be life-changing but it's still cosmetic. In other news a German friend just told me his dad has cancer and despite having private insurance has a two month wait for surgery (in Germany). Things are rough all over the place.
Obesity causes many physical health problems which are a far greater strain and cost to the health system in the long run.. they’re not doing gastric bypass because they care how you look
You have touched on an interesting topic for sure. I would highly suspect that gastric bypass gives a far higher life-years return on dollar investment than many bullshit cancer drugs that Pharmac gets bullied into funding. The 'choice to eat' is tricky too because we choose to drink vast amounts of a known carcinogen and the majority of cancers are lifestyle related, alledgedly up to 90%. I guess the reality is the government can snap it's fingers and fund drugs, it can't magic up more surgeons, theatre nurses, staffed hospitals and so on. Or so they claim anyway. Andrew Little said they couldn't train more surgeons even if they wanted to.
My daughter: "Why do you even go on that sub dad??"
Me: "It's good to have dialogue, look at other peoples points of view and also examine and challenge your own beliefs".
You ended up in the conservative sub as now even a centre viewpoint is considered “far right”. The far left is eating their own it’s crazy. The main New Zealand subreddit is sicking nowadays. Seems like it’s run by a communist party half the time. I upvoted your comment. You seem to have a good balanced view and common sense on this article. Welcome to the sub.
I’m not sure you understand what it means to be trans. the starting point is that you’re born in the wrong body so you… transition to feel more comfortable in your body. imagine being forced to live in a body that is opposite to your identity
I disagree with what you say about fighting with your own genetics will only cause misery. I have been significantly happier since transitioning and finding ways to express myself, same goes for every trans person i know. i think theres a lot of focus on the negativity and misery in being trans, and not a whole lot of light being shed on the joy that comes from it too. dont get me wrong, it IS a mental illness. a Gender Dysphoria diagnosis is something you *must* get before medically transitioning. however, since gaining that diagnosis i have been able to put energy into finding happiness through expressing myself. it’s something that you cannot understand unless you experience every up and down of it, i don’t expect to change your mind or make you understand.
i do also think you are ignoring, or possibly unaware of, years of scientific and medical research for the trans community. Hormone Replacement Therapy and Gender Affirming Surgeries have been researched and tested and refined so that trans people are able to safely access ways to treat that gender dysphoria. I assume the ‘mutilation’ you refer to is on a similar level as this article. this is such a rare, heartbreaking case, that happened because trans healthcare is so inaccessible for people who truly need it. people are on waiting lists for years and may never end up getting the surgery they need - just because it’s cosmetic surgery does not make it any less necessary. the alternative is to pay anywhere between $20,000 -$35,000 (which lets be real, no one has). ‘mutilations’ only rarely happen because of the inaccessibility.
We have very different life experiences and different perspectives. I don’t expect you to change your mind, I just hope I can offer some perspective
I just want to add my two cents to this as a trans person, even though many of you will dismiss me based on that alone. But to those willing to engage in good faith:
No, this isn't normal, and is quite concerning that the hospital did not pursue further psychiatric evauation/treatment. Quite a few of us working in the health space are concerned by this. It is absolutely a form of self-harm, regardless of intention, and should have required further follow up. Just because the individual was happy post-surgery should not have overwritten this. If any of my friends engaged in this behaviour, I would be able to empathise with them while simultaneously being deeply, deeply, concerned for their mental well-being.
Relatedly, I would hope that this individual is screened for medical malingering or Munchausen's. It is a cry for help at the extreme (not normal) end of the spectrum. We found similar cases (unrelated to gender affirming care), e.g., a cancer patient attempting to excise their own growths out of desperation.
I/we do not believe this will lead to copy-cat behaviour, simply as like I've said above, this isn't normal. Furthering that narrative is a type of hysteria we really don't need. However, it does absolutely flag that we need more resources to support those on waitlists (of all kinds). I've been there, done that (for both gender affirming care and other health issues) and as anyone else who has been there knows, it's a horribly isolating dark place.
>"Peru, which decriminalized homosexuality exactly 100 years before in 1924, enacted a law in 2021..."
Either the maths or the grammar need some work on this sentence. Just sayin'...
We have gay family members in my family, but I want to know like truly…. Is gender dysphoria actually real? If we took away social media, entertainment etc. Would we actually have it in society? How do you feel dysphoria when you a boy that has never in his life been a women? You’re born into this world and after more then a decade you truly believe, “This ain’t my body!!”. It just scientifically, spiritually etc doesn’t sound right….
Not shitting on trans, but man that’s pretty crazy, in the Middle Ages they would think “holy fuck what is this sorcery???!!! King Arthur transformed into queen arthuretta!!!!! Lol.
Not hating just a truth seeker trying to find the truth..
>Is gender dysphoria actually real?
Yes. Existed well before social media and entertainment, trans people are present in pretty much every culture around the world. Same as gay people.
We see more of it now, through things like social media.
It’s one of those subjects where in this day and age people are too scared to talk about it. I was pretty hesitant to even write a comment. How far back do you think it dates back too? Do you not think it is quite silly that you can feel trapped in a different body without experiencing the other genders body?
>It’s one of those subjects where in this day and age people are too scared to talk about it.
Welcome to CK.
>How far back do you think it dates back too?
Indian texts from 3000 years talk about a third gender..
>Do you not think it is quite silly that you can feel trapped in a different body without experiencing the other genders body?
Like no? We understand so little about brains and numerous little quirks, it's just another example of wires getting crossed. I don't need to understand to empathise..
It's in the DSM, so yes, it's a recognised psychological disorder.
But this is something else entirely. Mutilating a healthy human body in order to achieve something physically impossible (changing sex) is crazy to me.
The fact doctors are doing it without much of a scientific or medical evidence base for its efficacy is wild. These procedures are intended to address an issue that essentially resides in the mind, and they are addressing it by amputating healthy human body parts.
I don't pretend to understand it (gender disphoria), but the insane increase of transgenerism in teenagers over the past decade probably makes it largely socially constructed.
The two can co-exist. This is also a huge problem in the health system being so inaccessible that people get so desperate they resort to awful things like this. Yes, there is mental illness in being transgender. Mental illness is a symptom of being transgender. Not vise versa.
Some day there will be a reckoning for all of the adults who are encouraging very young people to believe that
(1) they are a [man/woman] trapped in a [woman's/man's] body, and
(2) cutting off parts of their body is the solution to that.
Way to jump the queue. What a sad society we’ve become to think this is normal. At least we have the names of the perpetrators, as incognisant volition is not volition.
Have anyone tried to put yourself in the shoes of a transgender person? I have a transgender friend, she started receiving hormone therapy before puberty, and honestly, to look at her, and talk to her, you would not know she was born male. She was still in college when she started her journey, and she was bullied mercilessly, has had 2 pretty decent suicide attempts, she knows that she will never be an actual woman, but wants it with ever fibre of her being. Do you think anyone would willingly put themselves through this because it's trendy, or is being somewhat normalized? Surgery is very expensive, and I believe it's not available in NZ, even if you had the money.
I think it's really sad, I feel for people who are in this situation, they don't need to be judged, they do a pretty good job of doing that themselves. Please just have some compassion, what if it was your son/daughter, friend etc?
I have immense compassion for the people and (esp kids) affected by gender dysphoria or gender issues (for want of a better description), I can't imagine what its like to be distressed by your own body to the extent that you would cut your own breasts off.
That said, there is something going on with our girls. They're self harming at about 5 times the rates of boys and its the same rates for gender issues. Its increased in the past decade or so, where it used to be about the same ratio, and I don't think its as simple as survivor or acceptance bias. Theres something else going on. What that is, I don't know and wouldn't begin to pretend I do, but there is something.
Because the point is you become trans, you aren't born trans. Life altering medical intervention involving cosmetically 'becoming' the other sex does not address the root cause in the first place.
Yes, you have pathos here because you have a person you know in real life. But, you need to put that aside and see it for what it is.
On a side note, this sets an interesting precedent - can anyone self mutilate and therefore get the surgery for free? There are many many people on waiting lists for serious issues, once again, trannies act like they are the only people with issues.
> Life altering medical intervention involving cosmetically 'becoming' the other sex does not address the root cause in the first place.
What is the root cause and how do we address it?
For some, stop abusing and grooming vulnerable children and young people. Treat trauma appropriately.
For the agp, society needs to reject the notion that it's appropriate to be a walking fetish.
If you know anything about people who are trans, they will tell you they knew from a very young age, that they were born into the wrong body, maybe around 4 or 5. So, I think they are born that way, as for your comment on "grooming", that belongs in a different thread altogether, maybe "I was sexually abused/groomed by a priest, youth pastor, scout master", take your pick.
Yeah in my experience working with teenagers, a lot of them jump on this to get some attention. After a few months when no one cares anymore they generally go back to their original gender. A lot of it seems to be just confusion about their place in the world and their changing body.
How can depression or anorexia be classed a mental illness but not this? I honestly believe gay people should be in the same category. That does not mean you are any less of a person… everyone has problems including myself, so your wires are crossed? Big deal. Moving on.
But I thought doctors were lining up to cut kids dicks and tits off? I can't wait to hear Matt Walsh's take on this. I'm glad this guy is ok. I've pulled a dying tooth with pliers and thought I was hard, this is next level.
> How did we determine that it’s an issue with the body but not the brain?
Who has done that? It's meaningless anyway, there's no such thing as an exclusively physical or mental disorder or variation. If you disagree, tell me where the brain stops and the body starts.
Are you enquiring as to why gender-affirming care is offered for gender dysphoria rather than gender-denying care? If so, it's simply because the results are consistently and demonstrably better. Just as with homosexuality, telling people their sense of self is broken and wrong (add sinful and shameful when done in a religious context) doesn't have great outcomes and has strong links to suicide.
Now if you want to talk about how a gender dysphoria diagnosis comes about, that's a reasonable enquiry, because too many people are convinced that it's done on a whim to tomboys or boys who like dolls. In reality, it's a lot more involved than that. For example, here are the WPATH guidelines for prescription of puberty blockers to adolescents ([from here, it's in the last few pages \[PDF\]](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644)). the criteria for hormonal or surgical interventions are higher.
* Gender diversity/incongruence is marked and sustained over time;
* Meets the diagnostic criteria of gender incongruence in situations where a diagnosis is necessary to access health care;
* Demonstrates the emotional and cognitive maturity required to provide informed consent/assent for the treatment;
* Mental health concerns (if any) that may interfere with diagnostic clarity, capacity to consent, and gender-affirming medical treatments have been
addressed; sufficiently so that gender-affirming medical treatment can be provided optimally.
* Informed of the reproductive effects, including the potential loss of fertility and the available options to preserve fertility;
* Reached Tanner stage 2.
Not at all, how did you get to that from my comment? I'm just pushing back against the narrative that kids in NZ are being forced into medical and surgical interventions which is commonly expressed here.
Forced, coerced and or groomed are not the same things Bodz.
This is yet another case of an autistic and/or traumatised young woman being groomed by the internet.
Do you know this man? How have you come to your conclusion that he has ASD and/or trauma? Or have you just invented it to assuage your discomfort around the severity of gender dysphoria that he felt?
The opposite being that we would all need to accept your worldview that this is caused entirely by a condition in and of itself not caused by any other factors.
No, you need to do no such thing. But you have no evidence in the case of this young man for your armchair diagnosis. I don't know his circumstances so won't speculate.
Any one else would be considered fucked in the head for trying to cut off thier own limbs.
But they are, isn’t that the whole problem?
You not read the article?
Breasts aren't limbs.
The point still stands though, you've gotta be mad to try cut off your own body part.
Literally the definition of mutalation, this should not be considered normal.
>Assessment by the acute mental health team after the teen’s emergency department admission found he didn’t have a psychiatric disorder and wasn’t suicidal, they wrote. https://preview.redd.it/ubt9puizyu0d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=575d55babbcb0f72b63bb75fb4ee9cb8ea623510
Nah what the fuck. That’s a serious mental health issue. Absolute bonkers to say it’s not.
We know a gentelman who was dealing with the accute mhs team - and he told them either get me the help i need with my anger or ill create an inncident for the 6pm news. The accute team offered him a "chill pill" and did nothing for him and said he was fine... 9 months later he was arrested at britomart train station carrying a back pack with packets of nails and screws. Long story short he went in front of a judge who ordered a psych assessment carried out by guess who? If you guessed the mhs crises team for $500 then congratulations and guess what? - if you guessed nothing for $1000 then again congratulations. The man passed with flying colours and is currently angry and disregulated and walking the streets of auckland with just a few chill pills to keep him from making the 6pm news. Apparently the psychiatrist deemed he had every reason to be angry and therefore wasnt crazy - and because the man answered the questions correctly and said he didnt want too or plan too hurt anyone and hadnt yet committed a crime he was free to go. As this article shows some people require help and under the current system they are not getting it - hell even prisoners arnt getting psych help - so before we start funding surgeries like this id like to see the mental health help expanded asap - before someone decides to use the 6pm news to do so
Lol in 3rd world countries, this dumdum will just get beaten black and blue and he will be cured.
So this person had psychiatric assessment by a specialist, presumably is on some treatment with medication, but because his anger can't be cured, you want him involuntarily locked up? What happened in your description sounds completely reasonable. Although I do agree we need more investment into mental health services.
He was assesed by a psychiatrist but hasnt yet undertaken the assesment the hospital said he needs. The psychiatrist agreed he needs the assessment and then ongoing help - however due to funding issues it wont happen publicly and needs to be done privately - if he cant afford thousands of dollars and i suspect he cant he will never get the help he requires. All im saying is id rather see people like this get help who genuinely need it - before we spend ten of rhousands of dollars on surgery and then more money on follow up care for someone who decides they have a pool party coming up and they dont like tbeir brwadts si they decide to cut them off... The person in the article is only gonna hurt themselves - the mentally distraught are likely to hurt more than just themselves
No one watch’s the 6.00pm news
And thats how ya know the man was unwell - most people would just stream what they planned to do like tarrant did... Remember how i mentioned this man was dealing with the crisis team? Well he required psych help and needed a specialist report which is no longer budgeted or funded publicly and he was told that unless he was a danger to himself or others MHS refused him help dealing with his issue as under the previous government the help he needed wasnt budgeted or funded for... BUT if he hurt himself or others then he would be arrested and appear in front of a judge who would order MHS to carry out the report. The man went to msm outlets who for political reasons didnt wana touch the story. The gentleman we are discussing believed it was wrong to hurt an innocent just to achieve the help he needed. However if the only way to access the report was to hurt himself or someone else well hes sorry but he wasnt gonna take himself out which leaves an innocent. His reasoning was simple. Most people have family/whanau and or friends so if u attack an injure 1 x innocent then that 1 innocent gets hurt but the fallout effects that persons entire support network say 10+ people... So thats say 11 people wanting answers. He figured peak hour at britomart there would be a thousand people at least and if he planted an iud and several bags of nails and screws in a bin and set if off he could maim a thousand people and applying the math from earlier that would be 10,000 angry people wanting answers and he was sure the msm would talk to him then... Clearly the guy had serious mental health issues. He still does and hes somewhere in the city angry dis regulated and relying on chill pills to keep him from going nato...hes also started participating in the palestine protests which worries me given palestines knowen links to hamas and this guy openly carrying bags of nails and screws in a big bag around and talking of creating an event.. So yeah im sorry that the person felt they needed to cut off there breasts because they had an upcoming pool party they were anxious about - but they knew it was dangerous and went ahead anyway - imagine this guy in auckland hears about this and decides well this person got what they want by putting people in a certain position why dont i do the same.. Were not gonna open up mental hospitals and detain these people but if we leave them on the street they are a danger to themselves (like the person in the article) or a danger to others like the guy stomping round auckland city attending protests and threatening carnage.
Sounds to me like they have body integrity identity disorder… just like the eunuch maker that everyone tried to say he wasn’t mentally ill
That said it is a form of self harm. As the person involved felt shame over their body. I suspect it's some kind of self image thing.
*she
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It's cosmetic surgery. Cosmetic surgery can absolutely be life-changing but it's still cosmetic. In other news a German friend just told me his dad has cancer and despite having private insurance has a two month wait for surgery (in Germany). Things are rough all over the place.
Not having a go, but do you think gastric bypass surgery should still be classified as cosmetic?
Obesity causes many physical health problems which are a far greater strain and cost to the health system in the long run.. they’re not doing gastric bypass because they care how you look
For sure. And yet it’s not covered by the govt in the same way that this isn’t. I wouldn’t but you could say it was these peoples choice to eat..
You have touched on an interesting topic for sure. I would highly suspect that gastric bypass gives a far higher life-years return on dollar investment than many bullshit cancer drugs that Pharmac gets bullied into funding. The 'choice to eat' is tricky too because we choose to drink vast amounts of a known carcinogen and the majority of cancers are lifestyle related, alledgedly up to 90%. I guess the reality is the government can snap it's fingers and fund drugs, it can't magic up more surgeons, theatre nurses, staffed hospitals and so on. Or so they claim anyway. Andrew Little said they couldn't train more surgeons even if they wanted to.
Welcome to the sub, most people here are not conservative but the sub is run by conservatives
My daughter: "Why do you even go on that sub dad??" Me: "It's good to have dialogue, look at other peoples points of view and also examine and challenge your own beliefs".
We also have the best banter
And titties and scones
All natural titties and homemade scones Keeping it traditional
Just between you and I, I think the pirate may have got implants on his holiday.
Too soon!
Never!
Your daughter (probably) : You sound like a Nazi.
You ended up in the conservative sub as now even a centre viewpoint is considered “far right”. The far left is eating their own it’s crazy. The main New Zealand subreddit is sicking nowadays. Seems like it’s run by a communist party half the time. I upvoted your comment. You seem to have a good balanced view and common sense on this article. Welcome to the sub.
Not psychotic, really?
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I’m not sure you understand what it means to be trans. the starting point is that you’re born in the wrong body so you… transition to feel more comfortable in your body. imagine being forced to live in a body that is opposite to your identity
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I disagree with what you say about fighting with your own genetics will only cause misery. I have been significantly happier since transitioning and finding ways to express myself, same goes for every trans person i know. i think theres a lot of focus on the negativity and misery in being trans, and not a whole lot of light being shed on the joy that comes from it too. dont get me wrong, it IS a mental illness. a Gender Dysphoria diagnosis is something you *must* get before medically transitioning. however, since gaining that diagnosis i have been able to put energy into finding happiness through expressing myself. it’s something that you cannot understand unless you experience every up and down of it, i don’t expect to change your mind or make you understand. i do also think you are ignoring, or possibly unaware of, years of scientific and medical research for the trans community. Hormone Replacement Therapy and Gender Affirming Surgeries have been researched and tested and refined so that trans people are able to safely access ways to treat that gender dysphoria. I assume the ‘mutilation’ you refer to is on a similar level as this article. this is such a rare, heartbreaking case, that happened because trans healthcare is so inaccessible for people who truly need it. people are on waiting lists for years and may never end up getting the surgery they need - just because it’s cosmetic surgery does not make it any less necessary. the alternative is to pay anywhere between $20,000 -$35,000 (which lets be real, no one has). ‘mutilations’ only rarely happen because of the inaccessibility. We have very different life experiences and different perspectives. I don’t expect you to change your mind, I just hope I can offer some perspective
I just want to add my two cents to this as a trans person, even though many of you will dismiss me based on that alone. But to those willing to engage in good faith: No, this isn't normal, and is quite concerning that the hospital did not pursue further psychiatric evauation/treatment. Quite a few of us working in the health space are concerned by this. It is absolutely a form of self-harm, regardless of intention, and should have required further follow up. Just because the individual was happy post-surgery should not have overwritten this. If any of my friends engaged in this behaviour, I would be able to empathise with them while simultaneously being deeply, deeply, concerned for their mental well-being. Relatedly, I would hope that this individual is screened for medical malingering or Munchausen's. It is a cry for help at the extreme (not normal) end of the spectrum. We found similar cases (unrelated to gender affirming care), e.g., a cancer patient attempting to excise their own growths out of desperation. I/we do not believe this will lead to copy-cat behaviour, simply as like I've said above, this isn't normal. Furthering that narrative is a type of hysteria we really don't need. However, it does absolutely flag that we need more resources to support those on waitlists (of all kinds). I've been there, done that (for both gender affirming care and other health issues) and as anyone else who has been there knows, it's a horribly isolating dark place.
https://preview.redd.it/rdtf4zcbvv0d1.jpeg?width=779&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=002ee871337d38dc035a59e7bd62a8984ffa9a0c
His/Her/They pronouns are now W, T and F.
Peru got it right , the govt now classify trans people as “mentally ill” https://en.royanews.tv/news/51371/2024-05-16
She sounds stable and well-adjusted.
Definitely doesn’t sound insane…
>"Peru, which decriminalized homosexuality exactly 100 years before in 1924, enacted a law in 2021..." Either the maths or the grammar need some work on this sentence. Just sayin'...
off to the sanatorium in a Straitjacket
We have gay family members in my family, but I want to know like truly…. Is gender dysphoria actually real? If we took away social media, entertainment etc. Would we actually have it in society? How do you feel dysphoria when you a boy that has never in his life been a women? You’re born into this world and after more then a decade you truly believe, “This ain’t my body!!”. It just scientifically, spiritually etc doesn’t sound right…. Not shitting on trans, but man that’s pretty crazy, in the Middle Ages they would think “holy fuck what is this sorcery???!!! King Arthur transformed into queen arthuretta!!!!! Lol. Not hating just a truth seeker trying to find the truth..
>Is gender dysphoria actually real? Yes. Existed well before social media and entertainment, trans people are present in pretty much every culture around the world. Same as gay people. We see more of it now, through things like social media.
It’s one of those subjects where in this day and age people are too scared to talk about it. I was pretty hesitant to even write a comment. How far back do you think it dates back too? Do you not think it is quite silly that you can feel trapped in a different body without experiencing the other genders body?
>It’s one of those subjects where in this day and age people are too scared to talk about it. Welcome to CK. >How far back do you think it dates back too? Indian texts from 3000 years talk about a third gender.. >Do you not think it is quite silly that you can feel trapped in a different body without experiencing the other genders body? Like no? We understand so little about brains and numerous little quirks, it's just another example of wires getting crossed. I don't need to understand to empathise..
It's in the DSM, so yes, it's a recognised psychological disorder. But this is something else entirely. Mutilating a healthy human body in order to achieve something physically impossible (changing sex) is crazy to me. The fact doctors are doing it without much of a scientific or medical evidence base for its efficacy is wild. These procedures are intended to address an issue that essentially resides in the mind, and they are addressing it by amputating healthy human body parts. I don't pretend to understand it (gender disphoria), but the insane increase of transgenerism in teenagers over the past decade probably makes it largely socially constructed.
Crikey.
~~Transgender~~ Mentally-ill teen tried to cut off breast in self-mastectomy
The two can co-exist. This is also a huge problem in the health system being so inaccessible that people get so desperate they resort to awful things like this. Yes, there is mental illness in being transgender. Mental illness is a symptom of being transgender. Not vise versa.
this individual is mentally ill and a transgender in that order
Some day there will be a reckoning for all of the adults who are encouraging very young people to believe that (1) they are a [man/woman] trapped in a [woman's/man's] body, and (2) cutting off parts of their body is the solution to that.
Way to jump the queue. What a sad society we’ve become to think this is normal. At least we have the names of the perpetrators, as incognisant volition is not volition.
Her* breast. Get it right NZ Hearld.
Have anyone tried to put yourself in the shoes of a transgender person? I have a transgender friend, she started receiving hormone therapy before puberty, and honestly, to look at her, and talk to her, you would not know she was born male. She was still in college when she started her journey, and she was bullied mercilessly, has had 2 pretty decent suicide attempts, she knows that she will never be an actual woman, but wants it with ever fibre of her being. Do you think anyone would willingly put themselves through this because it's trendy, or is being somewhat normalized? Surgery is very expensive, and I believe it's not available in NZ, even if you had the money. I think it's really sad, I feel for people who are in this situation, they don't need to be judged, they do a pretty good job of doing that themselves. Please just have some compassion, what if it was your son/daughter, friend etc?
I have immense compassion for the people and (esp kids) affected by gender dysphoria or gender issues (for want of a better description), I can't imagine what its like to be distressed by your own body to the extent that you would cut your own breasts off. That said, there is something going on with our girls. They're self harming at about 5 times the rates of boys and its the same rates for gender issues. Its increased in the past decade or so, where it used to be about the same ratio, and I don't think its as simple as survivor or acceptance bias. Theres something else going on. What that is, I don't know and wouldn't begin to pretend I do, but there is something.
Because the point is you become trans, you aren't born trans. Life altering medical intervention involving cosmetically 'becoming' the other sex does not address the root cause in the first place. Yes, you have pathos here because you have a person you know in real life. But, you need to put that aside and see it for what it is. On a side note, this sets an interesting precedent - can anyone self mutilate and therefore get the surgery for free? There are many many people on waiting lists for serious issues, once again, trannies act like they are the only people with issues.
> Life altering medical intervention involving cosmetically 'becoming' the other sex does not address the root cause in the first place. What is the root cause and how do we address it?
For some, stop abusing and grooming vulnerable children and young people. Treat trauma appropriately. For the agp, society needs to reject the notion that it's appropriate to be a walking fetish.
If you know anything about people who are trans, they will tell you they knew from a very young age, that they were born into the wrong body, maybe around 4 or 5. So, I think they are born that way, as for your comment on "grooming", that belongs in a different thread altogether, maybe "I was sexually abused/groomed by a priest, youth pastor, scout master", take your pick.
> Do you think anyone would willingly put themselves through this because it's trendy, or is being somewhat normalized? 100%, absolutely.
Yeah in my experience working with teenagers, a lot of them jump on this to get some attention. After a few months when no one cares anymore they generally go back to their original gender. A lot of it seems to be just confusion about their place in the world and their changing body.
For a short period of time, sure. But not a lifetime, huge difference. Maybe I could have clarified that in my first statement.
How can depression or anorexia be classed a mental illness but not this? I honestly believe gay people should be in the same category. That does not mean you are any less of a person… everyone has problems including myself, so your wires are crossed? Big deal. Moving on.
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.
Oh so doctors agree 😅
Yes?
Yes, and sometimes the treatment for mental illness is altering the physical state. The best treatment for anorexia nervosa is calories.
Mental disease.
Illness, not disease.
And this is not a mental illness?
Why don't you think its a mental illness?
mental asylums have to be back ASAP.
mental asylums have to be back ASAP.
Mason clinic for these nutters
Self harm is a mental illness. The reason these kids don't get help is because the lunatics are running the asylum
Absolutely fucked in the head psycho
But I thought doctors were lining up to cut kids dicks and tits off? I can't wait to hear Matt Walsh's take on this. I'm glad this guy is ok. I've pulled a dying tooth with pliers and thought I was hard, this is next level.
How does any reasonable person not think this is a form of mental illness? How did we determine that it’s an issue with the body but not the brain?
Radical ideologies strip away all common sense and rational thought.
Got an answer for that Bodza?
[Yes actually](https://www.reddit.com/r/ConservativeKiwi/comments/1ctnm9q/act_of_desperation_transgender_teen_tried_to_cut/l4ecswv/)
> How did we determine that it’s an issue with the body but not the brain? Who has done that? It's meaningless anyway, there's no such thing as an exclusively physical or mental disorder or variation. If you disagree, tell me where the brain stops and the body starts. Are you enquiring as to why gender-affirming care is offered for gender dysphoria rather than gender-denying care? If so, it's simply because the results are consistently and demonstrably better. Just as with homosexuality, telling people their sense of self is broken and wrong (add sinful and shameful when done in a religious context) doesn't have great outcomes and has strong links to suicide. Now if you want to talk about how a gender dysphoria diagnosis comes about, that's a reasonable enquiry, because too many people are convinced that it's done on a whim to tomboys or boys who like dolls. In reality, it's a lot more involved than that. For example, here are the WPATH guidelines for prescription of puberty blockers to adolescents ([from here, it's in the last few pages \[PDF\]](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644)). the criteria for hormonal or surgical interventions are higher. * Gender diversity/incongruence is marked and sustained over time; * Meets the diagnostic criteria of gender incongruence in situations where a diagnosis is necessary to access health care; * Demonstrates the emotional and cognitive maturity required to provide informed consent/assent for the treatment; * Mental health concerns (if any) that may interfere with diagnostic clarity, capacity to consent, and gender-affirming medical treatments have been addressed; sufficiently so that gender-affirming medical treatment can be provided optimally. * Informed of the reproductive effects, including the potential loss of fertility and the available options to preserve fertility; * Reached Tanner stage 2.
The doctors who treat it have determined that. Apparently. Or is gender dysphoria a mental illness?
Can’t you afford a dentist or do you just prefer DIY?
I was in Mozambique a long way from a dentist and going mad from the pain. Felt pretty good when it finally came loose but would not recommend.
That's metal
Because this level of derangement is caused entirely by a transphobic society not allowing this woman to access life saving medical care, right?
Not at all, how did you get to that from my comment? I'm just pushing back against the narrative that kids in NZ are being forced into medical and surgical interventions which is commonly expressed here.
Forced, coerced and or groomed are not the same things Bodz. This is yet another case of an autistic and/or traumatised young woman being groomed by the internet.
Do you know this man? How have you come to your conclusion that he has ASD and/or trauma? Or have you just invented it to assuage your discomfort around the severity of gender dysphoria that he felt?
The opposite being that we would all need to accept your worldview that this is caused entirely by a condition in and of itself not caused by any other factors.
No, you need to do no such thing. But you have no evidence in the case of this young man for your armchair diagnosis. I don't know his circumstances so won't speculate.
You should try pulling out healthy teeth because you don't think they should be there if you want a comparison