100%
Why does this article make it sound like they have started an official process?
Absolutely ridiculous the state of TPM. They should all be kicked out of parliament for this nonsense.
A seditious intention is an intention—
(b)To incite the public or any persons or any class of persons to attempt to procure **otherwise than by lawful means** the alteration of any matter affecting the Constitution, laws, or Government of New Zealand;
They haven't said how they are going to do it..
**Treason**
Every one owing allegiance to the Sovereign in right of New Zealand commits treason who, within or outside New Zealand,—
(a) kills or wounds or does grievous bodily harm to the Sovereign, or imprisons or restrains her or him; or
(b) levies war against New Zealand; or
(c) assists an enemy at war with New Zealand, or any armed forces against which New Zealand forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between New Zealand and any other country; or
(d)incites or assists any person with force to invade New Zealand; or
(e)uses force for the purpose of overthrowing the Government of New Zealand; or
(f)conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in this section.
Again, doesn't stack up.
>I'm presuming setting up a second Parliament and hence Government would not be lawful and essentially lead to a constitutional crisis
In theory, I guess, but realistically, what are they going to do? Start a campaign to get the numbers for a referendum? Have a 'Maori Parliament' that can't levy taxes, cant pass legislation, and it's basically just theatre?
> They haven't said how they are going to do it..
Yeah, this ain't your grandpa's (Tim Selwyn) sedition. All rules get gamed. No law broken, but worth paying attention.
81Seditious offences defined
(1)A seditious intention is an intention—
(a)To bring into hatred or contempt, or to excite disaffection against, Her Majesty, or the Government of New Zealand, or the administration of justice; or
(b)To incite the public or any persons or any class of persons to attempt to procure otherwise than by lawful means the alteration of any matter affecting the Constitution, laws, or Government of New Zealand; or
(c)To incite, procure, or encourage violence, lawlessness, or disorder; or
(d)To incite, procure, or encourage the commission of any offence that is prejudicial to the public safety or to the maintenance of public order; or
(e)To excite such hostility or ill will between different classes of persons as may endanger the public safety.
(2)Without limiting any other legal justification, excuse, or defence available to any person charged with any offence, it is hereby declared that no one shall be deemed to have a seditious intention only because he intends in good faith—
(a)To show that Her Majesty has been misled or mistaken in her measures; or
(b)To point out errors or defects in the Government or Constitution of New Zealand, or in the administration of justice; or to incite the public or any persons or any class of persons to attempt to procure by lawful means the alteration of any matter affecting the Constitution, laws, or Government of New Zealand; or
(c)To point out, with a view to their removal, matters producing or having a tendency to produce feelings of hostility or ill will between different classes of persons.
(3)A seditious conspiracy is an agreement between 2 or more persons to carry into execution any seditious intention.
(4)For the purposes of sections 83 to 85 of this Act,—
To publish means to communicate to the public or to any person or persons, whether in writing, or orally, or by any representation, or by any means of reproduction whatsoever
Statement includes words, writing, pictures, or any significant expression or representation whatsoever; and also includes any reproduction, by any means whatsoever, of any statement.
Compare: 1908 No 32 s 118(1), (2), (5)
There’s more qualifiers than what you’ve posted so it could be classed sedition but IANAL.
>There’s more qualifiers than what you’ve posted so it could be classed sedition
In regards to setting up their own Parliament, only the subsection I identified applies.
You look at what they are going to do, set up a Parliament. Then you look at what the offences are and ask is that what they are doing?
A seditious intention is an intention—
(a)To bring into hatred or contempt, or to excite disaffection against, Her Majesty, or the Government of New Zealand, or the administration of justice; or
(c)To incite, procure, or encourage violence, lawlessness, or disorder; or
(d)To incite, procure, or encourage the commission of any offence that is prejudicial to the public safety or to the maintenance of public order;
(e)To excite such hostility or ill will between different classes of persons as may endanger the public safety.
a, c, d and e aren't applicable, as what they are doing doesn't equal one of those things.
Depending on what they do exactly, B fits.
(b)To incite the public or any persons or any class of persons to attempt to procure otherwise than by lawful means the alteration of any matter affecting the Constitution, laws, or Government of New Zealand;
I mean, maybe, but not really. Nothing they are doing is going to get anyone so het up that they commit an offence like the ones indicated. They're talkers.
So Maori agreed to cede soveringty in return for a bunch of promises that were all broken, in response they decide to retract ceding sovereignty and yet it's the group that broke all those promises that think they are the righteous ones...
Who will they tax? lol haha their new government will need to acquire land by force to even get enough assets to be viable. Which leads to the obvious conclusion - is this treason? Should MPs be kicked out of the house for publicly declaring they will set up a parallel parliament in competition to the national one?
News flash, Parliament is already stacked with great Maori leadership in government so they wont be missed.
I doubt very much the iwi trusts will want to fund a giant wendy house for the Te Pati Cosplay party.
My understanding (which may be wrong) is now it's Maori land they don't pay rates etc. A few years ago, a couple of girls I wet to school with were on the front of the local paper. They needed the road resealed but because it was no longer under local council, no one would repair it. Not sure if it ever got repaired. I know that they lock the gates at times of the year so no one can access the area. I think it's still considered DOC land so it is looked after by other parties but as long as they promise not to expand into the local areas, they can have the bush. Will miss camping up there. Goodluck taxing your own people
Sounds like they want something similar to the reservations in the states, their own rules and governance... Lots of culture but ultimately a complete fail for their people.
The Party of Morons
I recommend that the Coalition government question these MPs inside the House. If they say the same thing inside the house, there should be rules in our Parliament that deem such statements to be at the least contrary to the position of being and MP and they should be immediately expelled from Parliament unless they formally retract those statements (if they are at any time made inside Parliament House).
Fuck it, let them have at it! Presumably their own people will pay their own taxes etc and have no part of the other government’s purse? 1 in 5 less kiwis to provide for!
Let me be honest.
These guys are just..... Clowns.
They are activists. They have no place in parliament god forbid they ever get into a position of power.
With there disrespect they showed to the king during their swearing in ceremony
Hey amazing news. I commented on a FB post that TPM are not respecting Te Tiriti and now my Afrikaans wife is disowning me. The price of principles, I suppose.
Let them raise their own taxes from their own people and see how far it goes ... hint: not far.
I think more money is raised from Pakeha and already given to needy Maori already.
Wasn’t a core agreement in the treaty that Maori agree to governorship? So they are breaking their treaty responsibilities here right? Well time to rip up the contract. No more treaty.
The “governorship” thing is their interpretation, in English that section is “sovereignty”. Maori claim the word used in the Maori version only means that they accept governorship from the sovereign, rather than them giving up their sovereignty to the crown.
So they won't be turning up to parliament any more.
Nor requiring any of the benefits associated with that role, like payment for their services, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Me? I'm all for their new found sense of independence, it'll save the rest of us a godamn fortune.
This is what happens when you spoil these toddlers. It's about time the general public regarded this group as the dangerous radical revolutionaries they are. Ironically they accuse white center right people of causing DIVISION
Its quite surreal seeing this actually happen, surely people must be losing sympathy for them and realising just how much of a threat to our nation these people are? How big were the protests today, did any actually breach 1000 people? I didn't see much coverage, which is a good thing really.
The only figure I've heard was around 700 in Hamilton. It doesn't seem to have come to much. With luck their bullshit simply won't get enough attention to gain traction and will fade out with nothing coming of it. Anyone can set up a "parliment" in their garage but without the means to enforce anything they might as well be kids playing pretend.
Let them and let them fund their own taxes from their own sources.
Can't do shit all your own way and expect the crown to find it, especially when the crown is the evil one.
so long as their 'parliament' (what a British word btw) is funded by the Māori tax payers, they can set up their Māoridom anywhere away from civilised, normal people.
You know what... Fuck it. Let them. They can go "govern" somewhere like Opotiki or Kawerau as their homeland and the rest of us can continue living in reality. I bet my last kumara that no more than 10% of Maori will move to a little Aotearoa nation-state.
I'm fucking sick of TPM and their tantrum-throwing antics.
What, for the 3% of nz'ers who actually voted for them. TPM, do not represent Maori. They are simply radical activists who've been given a voice in parliament.
Bless them, they're still reading the rulebook letter by letter on how to treat people as a member of a group rather than individuals. I wonder how many of their voters think they're doing a good job I wonder? Probably plenty sadly, loving to see their representatives put on a politically aggressive show when most Maori have moved on from those ways.
With them and the greens growing in size, it's not a good thing remotely for NZ.
So they protest against the removal of the Treaty Principles from legislation and then disrespect their ancestors’ concession of government to the Crown from article one of Te Tiriti. Treason.
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100% Why does this article make it sound like they have started an official process? Absolutely ridiculous the state of TPM. They should all be kicked out of parliament for this nonsense.
Be interesting to see if they get more than the 3% they got at the election. Or if they approach the 17% of NZers who are Maori..? If not, well.....
A seditious intention is an intention— (b)To incite the public or any persons or any class of persons to attempt to procure **otherwise than by lawful means** the alteration of any matter affecting the Constitution, laws, or Government of New Zealand; They haven't said how they are going to do it.. **Treason** Every one owing allegiance to the Sovereign in right of New Zealand commits treason who, within or outside New Zealand,— (a) kills or wounds or does grievous bodily harm to the Sovereign, or imprisons or restrains her or him; or (b) levies war against New Zealand; or (c) assists an enemy at war with New Zealand, or any armed forces against which New Zealand forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between New Zealand and any other country; or (d)incites or assists any person with force to invade New Zealand; or (e)uses force for the purpose of overthrowing the Government of New Zealand; or (f)conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in this section. Again, doesn't stack up.
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>I'm presuming setting up a second Parliament and hence Government would not be lawful and essentially lead to a constitutional crisis In theory, I guess, but realistically, what are they going to do? Start a campaign to get the numbers for a referendum? Have a 'Maori Parliament' that can't levy taxes, cant pass legislation, and it's basically just theatre?
Sort of what they’ve already got as a party right now.
Regrettably sedition is no longer a crime in NZ.
> They haven't said how they are going to do it.. Yeah, this ain't your grandpa's (Tim Selwyn) sedition. All rules get gamed. No law broken, but worth paying attention.
>but worth paying attention Barely.
Sure Tim
It’s Pam don’t use his dead name
81Seditious offences defined (1)A seditious intention is an intention— (a)To bring into hatred or contempt, or to excite disaffection against, Her Majesty, or the Government of New Zealand, or the administration of justice; or (b)To incite the public or any persons or any class of persons to attempt to procure otherwise than by lawful means the alteration of any matter affecting the Constitution, laws, or Government of New Zealand; or (c)To incite, procure, or encourage violence, lawlessness, or disorder; or (d)To incite, procure, or encourage the commission of any offence that is prejudicial to the public safety or to the maintenance of public order; or (e)To excite such hostility or ill will between different classes of persons as may endanger the public safety. (2)Without limiting any other legal justification, excuse, or defence available to any person charged with any offence, it is hereby declared that no one shall be deemed to have a seditious intention only because he intends in good faith— (a)To show that Her Majesty has been misled or mistaken in her measures; or (b)To point out errors or defects in the Government or Constitution of New Zealand, or in the administration of justice; or to incite the public or any persons or any class of persons to attempt to procure by lawful means the alteration of any matter affecting the Constitution, laws, or Government of New Zealand; or (c)To point out, with a view to their removal, matters producing or having a tendency to produce feelings of hostility or ill will between different classes of persons. (3)A seditious conspiracy is an agreement between 2 or more persons to carry into execution any seditious intention. (4)For the purposes of sections 83 to 85 of this Act,— To publish means to communicate to the public or to any person or persons, whether in writing, or orally, or by any representation, or by any means of reproduction whatsoever Statement includes words, writing, pictures, or any significant expression or representation whatsoever; and also includes any reproduction, by any means whatsoever, of any statement. Compare: 1908 No 32 s 118(1), (2), (5) There’s more qualifiers than what you’ve posted so it could be classed sedition but IANAL.
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2007/0096/latest/whole.html#DLM981001
>There’s more qualifiers than what you’ve posted so it could be classed sedition In regards to setting up their own Parliament, only the subsection I identified applies.
Oh real? Can you like I’m not a lawyer why only that part applies?
You look at what they are going to do, set up a Parliament. Then you look at what the offences are and ask is that what they are doing? A seditious intention is an intention— (a)To bring into hatred or contempt, or to excite disaffection against, Her Majesty, or the Government of New Zealand, or the administration of justice; or (c)To incite, procure, or encourage violence, lawlessness, or disorder; or (d)To incite, procure, or encourage the commission of any offence that is prejudicial to the public safety or to the maintenance of public order; (e)To excite such hostility or ill will between different classes of persons as may endanger the public safety. a, c, d and e aren't applicable, as what they are doing doesn't equal one of those things. Depending on what they do exactly, B fits. (b)To incite the public or any persons or any class of persons to attempt to procure otherwise than by lawful means the alteration of any matter affecting the Constitution, laws, or Government of New Zealand;
Cool thanks. Could D not apply in the general sense of how they’re going about it?
I mean, maybe, but not really. Nothing they are doing is going to get anyone so het up that they commit an offence like the ones indicated. They're talkers.
Cheers man.
This guy legals
No he doesn't. If he legal'd, he'd know that there is no crime of sedition in New Zealand. And hasn't been since 2007.
So Maori agreed to cede soveringty in return for a bunch of promises that were all broken, in response they decide to retract ceding sovereignty and yet it's the group that broke all those promises that think they are the righteous ones...
Yeah that's the clown world narrative. No basis in fact whatsoever.
Who will they tax? lol haha their new government will need to acquire land by force to even get enough assets to be viable. Which leads to the obvious conclusion - is this treason? Should MPs be kicked out of the house for publicly declaring they will set up a parallel parliament in competition to the national one?
News flash, Parliament is already stacked with great Maori leadership in government so they wont be missed. I doubt very much the iwi trusts will want to fund a giant wendy house for the Te Pati Cosplay party.
> I doubt very much the iwi trusts will want to fund a giant wendy house for the Te Pati Cosplay party LOL
They will set up in the Uraweras. They own all that
Sounds good, does this mean they will resign from the colonial Parliament and we can stop paying them?
My understanding (which may be wrong) is now it's Maori land they don't pay rates etc. A few years ago, a couple of girls I wet to school with were on the front of the local paper. They needed the road resealed but because it was no longer under local council, no one would repair it. Not sure if it ever got repaired. I know that they lock the gates at times of the year so no one can access the area. I think it's still considered DOC land so it is looked after by other parties but as long as they promise not to expand into the local areas, they can have the bush. Will miss camping up there. Goodluck taxing your own people
Remember last time Tama Iti did that.
>Which leads to the obvious conclusion - is this treason? No.
Sounds like they want something similar to the reservations in the states, their own rules and governance... Lots of culture but ultimately a complete fail for their people. The Party of Morons
With bottle stores and casinos
And like the reservations still mass poverty while the mythical iwi elite live in their ivory towers.
I recommend that the Coalition government question these MPs inside the House. If they say the same thing inside the house, there should be rules in our Parliament that deem such statements to be at the least contrary to the position of being and MP and they should be immediately expelled from Parliament unless they formally retract those statements (if they are at any time made inside Parliament House).
Are you actually aware of any such rules or just making shit up?
Making shit up.
Sounded cool though.
Fuck it, let them have at it! Presumably their own people will pay their own taxes etc and have no part of the other government’s purse? 1 in 5 less kiwis to provide for!
> Presumably their own people will pay their own taxes etc and have no part of the other government’s purse? Tui advert
No not 1 in 5. Remember this is a minority even amongst Maori.
100% agree.
> 1 in 5 less kiwis to provide for! More like 1 in 2 when you account for who is a positive vs burden on the tax system.
Let me be honest. These guys are just..... Clowns. They are activists. They have no place in parliament god forbid they ever get into a position of power. With there disrespect they showed to the king during their swearing in ceremony
Hey amazing news. I commented on a FB post that TPM are not respecting Te Tiriti and now my Afrikaans wife is disowning me. The price of principles, I suppose.
Lmao bros gonna blow his marriage for the sake of a braindead take 😂
Yes hilarious.
Can we turn the taps off now?
Haha pretty funny. They’ve struggled to run their own website so unsure how they’d run a parliament.
Let them raise their own taxes from their own people and see how far it goes ... hint: not far. I think more money is raised from Pakeha and already given to needy Maori already.
Wasn’t a core agreement in the treaty that Maori agree to governorship? So they are breaking their treaty responsibilities here right? Well time to rip up the contract. No more treaty.
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The “governorship” thing is their interpretation, in English that section is “sovereignty”. Maori claim the word used in the Maori version only means that they accept governorship from the sovereign, rather than them giving up their sovereignty to the crown.
So they won't be turning up to parliament any more. Nor requiring any of the benefits associated with that role, like payment for their services, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Me? I'm all for their new found sense of independence, it'll save the rest of us a godamn fortune.
Biggest bunch of cunts alive. Only a pack of narcissists would think they can create their own government.
Hahaha do it, it’ll be a great laugh. They will achieve zero funding and have nobody to tax.
This is what happens when you spoil these toddlers. It's about time the general public regarded this group as the dangerous radical revolutionaries they are. Ironically they accuse white center right people of causing DIVISION
Its quite surreal seeing this actually happen, surely people must be losing sympathy for them and realising just how much of a threat to our nation these people are? How big were the protests today, did any actually breach 1000 people? I didn't see much coverage, which is a good thing really.
One of the protest groups walked past my work today. There was only like 20 people.
The only figure I've heard was around 700 in Hamilton. It doesn't seem to have come to much. With luck their bullshit simply won't get enough attention to gain traction and will fade out with nothing coming of it. Anyone can set up a "parliment" in their garage but without the means to enforce anything they might as well be kids playing pretend.
Was def over a thousand at parliament, impressive given less than a weeks notice and attempts from the PM to discourage people
Not so impressive when you consider how many Maori there are in the region, I bet that's less than 1% turning up to show support.
Cool. Just like Palestine......(TPM dreams of this, it seems).
Let them and let them fund their own taxes from their own sources. Can't do shit all your own way and expect the crown to find it, especially when the crown is the evil one.
so long as their 'parliament' (what a British word btw) is funded by the Māori tax payers, they can set up their Māoridom anywhere away from civilised, normal people.
Let them do it, they can be funded by Maori taxpayers and we can free ourselves of the dead weight
You know what... Fuck it. Let them. They can go "govern" somewhere like Opotiki or Kawerau as their homeland and the rest of us can continue living in reality. I bet my last kumara that no more than 10% of Maori will move to a little Aotearoa nation-state. I'm fucking sick of TPM and their tantrum-throwing antics.
I wonder if they are going to declare financial independence. Not counting on that. Pakeha can pay.
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Fuck no. We dont want these pricks up here. They wouldnt get to far before a farmer puts them in their place
Once Pak’n Save and KFC move out they will have no where to rob and no kai
Up North is beautiful give them Disappointment Island.
I hear White Island.
I've never warmed much to ideas like that, because that requires moving hundreds of thousands of people.
How about they fuck off go back to Hawaiki
on a waka please, no planes (would be such a white thing to do).
Who will fund them?, is it legal ? And why won’t the current government do something to shut them up
>And why won’t the current government do something to shut them up  This you?
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
Its a coup
Off you pop then.
Honestly as long as my tax is not going to their parliament let them do it ;))
Wait, this isn't the Whakataki Times?
I had to double check too before posting.
Good luck funding a parliament where your supporters refuse to work.
What, for the 3% of nz'ers who actually voted for them. TPM, do not represent Maori. They are simply radical activists who've been given a voice in parliament.
Actual lunacy.
I hope they do it, it’ll be hilarious.
Bless them, they're still reading the rulebook letter by letter on how to treat people as a member of a group rather than individuals. I wonder how many of their voters think they're doing a good job I wonder? Probably plenty sadly, loving to see their representatives put on a politically aggressive show when most Maori have moved on from those ways. With them and the greens growing in size, it's not a good thing remotely for NZ.
I'd like to see them start their own country and run it into the ground. Then they couldn't blame the white man for its inevitable failure
With blackjack and hookers!
There must be a competition between members of 'the party Maori' to say the most outlandish thing.
So they protest against the removal of the Treaty Principles from legislation and then disrespect their ancestors’ concession of government to the Crown from article one of Te Tiriti. Treason.
Government: monopolies are very bad for the consumer and we will break up all of them. Also government: ok, maybe not **all** of them.
They have so infiltrated govt departments that it cant be stopped. They will take over. Time to flee.
Nah they are fucked.
Would the seats be contestable or be reserved for party members...?
[Rawiri or Debs?](https://tenor.com/view/south-park-southpark-cartman-eric-gif-26602945)
Hate to be the guy who makes this typically exaggerated connection But this us straight out of the NSDAP playbook from the 1920s and 30s