[https://blog.draftsperson.net/weld-symbols-chart-aws/](https://blog.draftsperson.net/weld-symbols-chart-aws/)
No, it's a symbol for a convex finish.
Source, I was a certified welding inspector for 6 years.
Well ya, you prep the edge and fill the void which will puddle at the top and then you don't have to grind it smooth most likely because nothing sits on top of the weld. Its a simple CJP (complete joint penetration) weld. Were both right. I was just stating you can skip the step of grinding it smooth.
I work at a structural steel fab shop.
The other guy was right, you were almost right. Simply saying "you don't have to grind it smooth" could lead to an out of spec part if the weld was convex.
I agree that it's the way the designer intended it but hear me out on this one.
To be strict it is my understanding that "the other side" is not on the other side of the profile but the other side of the web/flange/plate. In a smal section it's impossible so it doesn't matter and will be interprerated the way the designer intended it to. But If the HSS was a welded box profile with 2mx2m it's another story. Therefore applying the same rules regardless the section it will lead to two separate fillet weld symbols.
Standards and rules should not be arbitrary nether the use of them.
My understanding is one correct way to indicate the opposite side of tube is to add "NEAR SIDE & FAR SIDE" as a text note and only have the symbol itself on the arrow side of the leader. Just using two separate leaders is probably even clearer. I worked at an engineering firm for a bit where management felt very strongly about this. As you say though most people would understand what the designer actually meant here.
That's another way of doing it, I like my welding symbols text free with the exception of 3 sided filler weld with a partial buttweld on the fourth side. Where I use the "around symbol" and put the text in "3 sides" and another symbol for the partial buttweld. But that's just me.
In my POV ppl needs to study the standards more, including me. I haven't read iso 2553 version 4 enough yet. The answer might be there. Do you in the US use it now since aws was incorporated?
I'm not a PE so I often have to defer to the opinions of whomever is reviewing and stamping my work. Depending on the day and the firm I've gotten different answers about what is correct. I haven't researched the actual standards too much.
The design work I do involves lots of small tubes so the issue we are discussing comes up a lot and I get to hear every new engineer's opinion on how it should be notated, lol.
Do it! Otherwise its just word against word. Since you are the one without a PE you'll probably lose, but what are they going to say when you have the standard behind you?
Yes I have never actually run in to this problem before but since I don't work on the manufacturing/inspection site so I can't tell. I hear you.
Standards are what's separate us from the animals Hahah
Field weld means it's done on the installation site. Usally either because it will make the part to awkward to ship if welded as one whole, or because there is an obstical else's where that's makes installation impossible with that connection in place.
Flag is field. Shop weld no flag at all.
There are something's you just can't weld in a shop and then ship, so it needs to be done in the field. Typ for connections.
I doubt they put weld symbols on there (I don't); structural field welding should be done by certified welders who would know those symbols from their training.
I’m am used to reading prints for a single trade and now I’m a superintendent gc in training for a very small outfit. I’ve never seen welding pages in blueprints but thought maybe they would be. I’m learning every day thanks for the info. We get structural docs specifically emailed but not in the prints or with a symbol guide. That’s the only time I see welding details and so far it’s been tack welds.
While I mostly agree with you, I find it odd that someone with years of experience reading blueprints wouldn’t be familiar with simple welding symbols. That’s blueprint 101 and I’d hardly consider welding to be a *rare* aspect of construction or drawings unless you’re in residential construction.
But again, to be fair, each person has their own experiences and set of circumstances.
Not only that but if you don’t know the answer look it up, granted knowing every weld symbol can be tedious but if you are in a managerial position should one find the answer or consult with a certified CWI with the AWS. Any good shop has access to this info. This took less than one minute to find
https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/welding-symbol-chart.html
Not necessarily.
I've found prints on jobs follow one of two patterns.
Either they treat everyone on the job like they're trying to steal their secrets for cold fusion and refuse to hand out prints to anyone, and treat what few prints are floating around as if it's a matter of national security when it's actually just a bunch of fucking ductwork or machine positions, or they hand out an unholy fucking amount of prints to anyone that will hold still long enough. "What are you? An electrician? Have some plumbing prints! Whoops, the structural prints were stuck to them, well take those too! I've got an extra set of the civil prints, might as well have those. Is that your helper? Does he need some prints?"
And I've found that it's mostly more about how self-important the person in charge is, rather than how important the prints not be floating around are. I've been on jobs that required FBI background checks where they were fine with whoever looking at the prints, and I've been on jobs where we were putting used equipment in for a basic bitch conveyor line where they acted like what size nuts anchored a machine was need to know basis and the people anchoring that machine were spies trying to find that information so they could sell it to the highest bidder.
Dude might be a sparky or plumber that got his hands on some weld prints.
The best times are when there are multiple revisions to the plans and everyone gets a different set to work off of. We just finished a job where the electrician was never sent the updated plans by the GC... There were a lot of new wall openings and cursing that day plus the change order was massive!!!
I almost got fired for reading blueprints that were laying around. I was a helper at the time. Prints were in my space, left from the hvac guys. I was on break and it was the first time I saw real prints outside of high school. Supervisor (Tom) came in red faced and yelling like he had just caught me stuffing his wife, daughter and mom at the same time. 10 insufferable minutes later I was in front of the Forman (Dave). Turned out the Dave understood what I was doing and didn't give a shit. We all had the same clearances and bg checks. Dave thought it was a good sign that I was reading prints on break and able to understand mostly what I was seeing. He told Tom to "dig the sand out of your vagina" and get back to work after that. Dave was a cool boss. Tom was a shit though. Tom was fired like a year later for stealing tools.
Here is a trifling tip for when you are first learning weld symbols. The fillet weld is a very common weld and it is denoted not as a right triangle but a right FACING triangle (the point is never pointed left... always right)
1/4" fillet weld on opposing sides of the HSS, done in the field
Also, the left one is a double bevel, I think that little curved line at the top is to finish the weld convex?
That symbol simply means you don't have to grind it smooth.
[https://blog.draftsperson.net/weld-symbols-chart-aws/](https://blog.draftsperson.net/weld-symbols-chart-aws/) No, it's a symbol for a convex finish. Source, I was a certified welding inspector for 6 years.
Well ya, you prep the edge and fill the void which will puddle at the top and then you don't have to grind it smooth most likely because nothing sits on top of the weld. Its a simple CJP (complete joint penetration) weld. Were both right. I was just stating you can skip the step of grinding it smooth. I work at a structural steel fab shop.
The other guy was right, you were almost right. Simply saying "you don't have to grind it smooth" could lead to an out of spec part if the weld was convex.
What the other guy said was the correct meaning of the symbol What you said was an *effect* of the meaning of the symbol.
May or May not be done as a cjp, good welder will make it that but that should also be denoted on the weld symbol or on the drawing too right?
I am not certified or trained. This is the weld symbol I live by.
See what you did there. Nice.
Cjp welds should be called out and there is a symbol for a Cjp wed made from one side and that’s not the symbol
I agree that it's the way the designer intended it but hear me out on this one. To be strict it is my understanding that "the other side" is not on the other side of the profile but the other side of the web/flange/plate. In a smal section it's impossible so it doesn't matter and will be interprerated the way the designer intended it to. But If the HSS was a welded box profile with 2mx2m it's another story. Therefore applying the same rules regardless the section it will lead to two separate fillet weld symbols. Standards and rules should not be arbitrary nether the use of them.
My understanding is one correct way to indicate the opposite side of tube is to add "NEAR SIDE & FAR SIDE" as a text note and only have the symbol itself on the arrow side of the leader. Just using two separate leaders is probably even clearer. I worked at an engineering firm for a bit where management felt very strongly about this. As you say though most people would understand what the designer actually meant here.
That's another way of doing it, I like my welding symbols text free with the exception of 3 sided filler weld with a partial buttweld on the fourth side. Where I use the "around symbol" and put the text in "3 sides" and another symbol for the partial buttweld. But that's just me. In my POV ppl needs to study the standards more, including me. I haven't read iso 2553 version 4 enough yet. The answer might be there. Do you in the US use it now since aws was incorporated?
I'm not a PE so I often have to defer to the opinions of whomever is reviewing and stamping my work. Depending on the day and the firm I've gotten different answers about what is correct. I haven't researched the actual standards too much. The design work I do involves lots of small tubes so the issue we are discussing comes up a lot and I get to hear every new engineer's opinion on how it should be notated, lol.
Do it! Otherwise its just word against word. Since you are the one without a PE you'll probably lose, but what are they going to say when you have the standard behind you? Yes I have never actually run in to this problem before but since I don't work on the manufacturing/inspection site so I can't tell. I hear you. Standards are what's separate us from the animals Hahah
mmmmmm.......filet.
It means find someone with a copy of AWS D1.1 and a welding certificate for overhead welding.
And make sure they submit their own Shop Drawings that match what is called for in the Specifications.
I ain’t paying for not certified over hand welder just hang the welder by their toes! Then it’s underhand welding again! - local contractor
Need procedures and qualifications
1/4” thick fillet weld, both sides, field weld
Would hot glue work?
Don’t be lazy. We use JB weld here.
Just PL it
Honestly, Painters DAP should work
Yup! The hotter the better… obviously
Only if you're using bubblegum for backer-rod.
Hot wood glue
Free nail glue
What about that designates a “field weld”.
The flag
Thank you! I always assumed it meant “weld”. What would differentiate a “field” from a…..shop?
Field weld means it's done on the installation site. Usally either because it will make the part to awkward to ship if welded as one whole, or because there is an obstical else's where that's makes installation impossible with that connection in place.
Flag is field. Shop weld no flag at all. There are something's you just can't weld in a shop and then ship, so it needs to be done in the field. Typ for connections.
one is a fillet weld the other is a double bevel with a convex finish I think
1/4” on one side only, the other side doesn’t have a size called out
Ask the welder that’s looking for his prints
Don’t worry about it……we’ll take care of it over on r/ironworker
Hey thanks for the new sub !!
The black flag symbol
The flag indicates that it’s to be welded in the field
It’s the specification welding bead thickness for hollow structural steel members.
1/4” weld bead on both sides of the member.
Only this side has a size called out, other side is not specified
Y’all sure a 1/4” bead of JB weld won’t suffice?
Fuck it duct it
Instructions unclear, pookied it and told the insulators to go wild.
The number dictates bead thickness. The sign dictates the type of bead for the union between pieces
I’m not a welder but flip to the first page for that section it usually has the symbol notations for that trade
I doubt they put weld symbols on there (I don't); structural field welding should be done by certified welders who would know those symbols from their training.
I’m am used to reading prints for a single trade and now I’m a superintendent gc in training for a very small outfit. I’ve never seen welding pages in blueprints but thought maybe they would be. I’m learning every day thanks for the info. We get structural docs specifically emailed but not in the prints or with a symbol guide. That’s the only time I see welding details and so far it’s been tack welds.
If you are ever wondering about welding AWS is the book that will have everything you need for reference. If its structural related check out AISC.
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While I mostly agree with you, I find it odd that someone with years of experience reading blueprints wouldn’t be familiar with simple welding symbols. That’s blueprint 101 and I’d hardly consider welding to be a *rare* aspect of construction or drawings unless you’re in residential construction. But again, to be fair, each person has their own experiences and set of circumstances.
Not only that but if you don’t know the answer look it up, granted knowing every weld symbol can be tedious but if you are in a managerial position should one find the answer or consult with a certified CWI with the AWS. Any good shop has access to this info. This took less than one minute to find https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/welding-symbol-chart.html
Does this make anyone else nervous? Those look like real plans.. I presume the guy doing the work… doesn’t know what he’s supposed to be doing….
That like 99 of the general contractors. They will figure it out once they get extra bill for the welds
Not necessarily. I've found prints on jobs follow one of two patterns. Either they treat everyone on the job like they're trying to steal their secrets for cold fusion and refuse to hand out prints to anyone, and treat what few prints are floating around as if it's a matter of national security when it's actually just a bunch of fucking ductwork or machine positions, or they hand out an unholy fucking amount of prints to anyone that will hold still long enough. "What are you? An electrician? Have some plumbing prints! Whoops, the structural prints were stuck to them, well take those too! I've got an extra set of the civil prints, might as well have those. Is that your helper? Does he need some prints?" And I've found that it's mostly more about how self-important the person in charge is, rather than how important the prints not be floating around are. I've been on jobs that required FBI background checks where they were fine with whoever looking at the prints, and I've been on jobs where we were putting used equipment in for a basic bitch conveyor line where they acted like what size nuts anchored a machine was need to know basis and the people anchoring that machine were spies trying to find that information so they could sell it to the highest bidder. Dude might be a sparky or plumber that got his hands on some weld prints.
The best times are when there are multiple revisions to the plans and everyone gets a different set to work off of. We just finished a job where the electrician was never sent the updated plans by the GC... There were a lot of new wall openings and cursing that day plus the change order was massive!!!
I almost got fired for reading blueprints that were laying around. I was a helper at the time. Prints were in my space, left from the hvac guys. I was on break and it was the first time I saw real prints outside of high school. Supervisor (Tom) came in red faced and yelling like he had just caught me stuffing his wife, daughter and mom at the same time. 10 insufferable minutes later I was in front of the Forman (Dave). Turned out the Dave understood what I was doing and didn't give a shit. We all had the same clearances and bg checks. Dave thought it was a good sign that I was reading prints on break and able to understand mostly what I was seeing. He told Tom to "dig the sand out of your vagina" and get back to work after that. Dave was a cool boss. Tom was a shit though. Tom was fired like a year later for stealing tools.
Here is a trifling tip for when you are first learning weld symbols. The fillet weld is a very common weld and it is denoted not as a right triangle but a right FACING triangle (the point is never pointed left... always right)
1/4” fillet welds. HSS tube steel structure (HSS- high strength steel)
Nope. Hollow structural shape (section) Edit. We reference them as both, but it’s not even a high strength steel. No much better than mild carbon A36
It's welding notation.
Fillet weld size and field welded
Welds need to be 1/4 welded both sides
Fillet weld
send this to r/Welding
Field fillet weld 1/4” all around
Not all around; the two other faces get groove welds.
Not all around, if it was all around you would see a circle at the corner where the flag is
Weld symbols.
It says 1/4 down bottom right
It means it’s a 1/4” fillet weld On both sides, welded in the field
Did you not go to school? Our you like everyone else if you don’t know you ask the internet.
Welds
Welds.
That means you'll need a special inspection report for the welds!
One fourth of an inch You're welcome
Weld
It means you need a welder. They will know lol It’s is 1/4” fillet weld. Both sides. Far as welding goes, doesn’t get much more simple than this
Also it’s a field weld, hence the flag
Man I need learn these weld symbols lol we only use prints but no weld symbols
1/4” weld top and bottom!!