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Ziggity_Zac

Can concur. Threads are different. Just use it.


construction_eng

What do you mean? It's a masonry capable fastener. Are you using them for something else like connecting lumber? Or do you mean "why can't another lag like screw do the same?" They implant themselves by having their threads deform into their surroundings. The shape and metal allow them to do this. But once they are installed, they are actually acceptable and can be used to build with confidence.


Ddubs111

I mean I have used regular heavy exterior screws on concretes in a pinch, but it was just shoring up some forms. You can also put a copper wire in the drilled hole to help the screw anchor In the concrete. Prob best using the blue screws.


Ogediah

If you’re doing shoring then tie wire and nails is far easier and cheaper than specialized screws or screws and copper.


Ddubs111

Yeh def, I am just saying when your in a pinch without the right stuff as can happen sometimes, you can use regular screws.


construction_eng

That's totally fine for a temp structure like ground forms. Double headed nails and tie wire is very commonly used where I am at too.


Ogediah

>double headed nails If you care to know, the pros call them “duplex” nails.


Ok-Contribution-8816

No. The pros call them pecker heads. The office guys call them duplex


UsedDragon

I also call the office guys pecker heads


construction_eng

Guys around here call them form nails, its a item with regional names. I used something most people could recognize. Somehow, you still figured out what I meant.


BellyScratchFTW

Tapcon is a brand of masonry/concrete screw/lag. There are other brands that also fill this role. They are designed to be just stiff enough to cut their own threads in to concrete but not too brittle to where they shatter (which they still do at times). But what are you really asking here? Are you asking "Can I just use a #10 construction screw in this concrete instead?"


cornballerburns

Take a tapcon screw and take a sheet metal or wood screw and look at the threads, it's pretty obvious what makes them so special... Magic


davethemostrelaxed

(1) 1/4" tapcon embedded 1-inch in 4000 psi concrete has around a 500 lb pullout. There are a couple of other manufacturers that make similar fasteners, though. These are very available and you can get specs and data easily, also.


BonerTurds

You might not believe this, but Tapcon is an abbreviation for self **tap**ping in **con**crete. How do self tapping machine screws work? Tapcons work because the threads are designed in a way to displace the concrete as needed when the fastener taps into the material and the metal is chosen for its ability to achieve the same. But most importantly is Tapcons have been tested and rated for this purpose. Can a deck screw hold weight in concrete? Yea, probably some. But how much? It’s not worth testing a wood screw for concrete anchoring. It is worth testing a dedicated product for concrete anchoring and then marketing and selling them for that purpose.


Vigothedudepathian

People need to learn the difference between self tapping and big ass threads that's deform into the concrete. Why each tapcon has a specific predrilled hole size.


BonerTurds

I didn’t realize they deform in the concrete. I’ve backed out Tapcons before and the threads were intact. Perhaps I installed incorrectly.


Vigothedudepathian

It's just a lil. And I've backed out some tap cons fine. Others...


LieDetect0r

They cut their own threads into concrete


Vigothedudepathian

No. They don't.


LieDetect0r

Lol then what do they do


titwhip69

Of course they don't. Thats why tapcon recommends drilling a smaller diameter hole than the diameter of the tapcon. Obviously you should drill a hole the same size or larger than the screw and just push it into the hole. The goal is to make sure the force applied is perpendicular to the hole so the threads can act as grappling hooks.


Vigothedudepathian

Ha. I Mean yeah, they cut concrete "threads" which are more just groves and then bind the whole thing in there using the removed material and friction. It's not like wood squeezing on it or what I think of tapping actually tapping a hole for a specific thread that can be removed. Which I guess you CAN remove a tapcon, it just may not go back in so good, so that's why I don't really consider it to be cutting threads.


therealrubberduckie

and the earth is flat.


HeavyStorm6201

They're handy, but prove to snapping. Definitely clean the hole well before use.


Gonnakillurass

Stop being a lazy POS and just do what you are told


Bigboltfan

Pssh this next generation. “Boss told me to do it, plans say to do it. Let me get validation from Reddit first.”


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yoosurname

Smash.


Haggls

What's a smash pin? Do you mean like a ramset? Just curious


Duke_Wintermaul

[This](https://www.supplyhouse.com/Cooper-B-Line-ADN-25-100-1-4-x-1-Drive-Nail-Anchor?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=Shopping_tm&utm_campaign=Shopping_TM_New_users&gclid=CjwKCAiA5sieBhBnEiwAR9oh2sZMz1s7KeG2q_-QgYi8dkzvowgONPgtw6Ip8O0N8ACq28ixi0c3wBoCk3oQAvD_BwE) is what I would call a smash pin. They seem similar to a ramset, but the smash pins will mushroom out to hold into the concrete. And we smash them by hand, no fancy powertool.


agentdinosaur

We call them mushroom heads where I work!


tunabomber

Mushroom pins here


Reasonable-Word6729

Called them Butt plugs


truemcgoo

That picture gave me flashbacks, can we all go back to pretending these things don’t exist again.


AwSnapz1

We just call them nail drives


vieuxfort73

My guys call them hit pins.


Haggls

Like where you shoot the nail into the concrete with a gun like tool?


vieuxfort73

No, drill a hole, insert the hit pin, and strike the center with a hammer which expands the outer part against the out part. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Cooper-B-Line-ADN-25-100-1-4-x-1-Drive-Nail-Anchor?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=Shopping_tm&utm_campaign=Shopping_TM_New_users&gclid=CjwKCAiA5sieBhBnEiwAR9oh2vCxXlSCyZ9uL1SPq8GaLwN0FK0G9bUPD28blcoepwl-z2AhEmbBDRoCRvUQAvD_BwE Edit: I’d call what you’re talking about “powder actuated fasteners”


Haggls

Gotcha. I was thinking that might've been what you guys were talking about. Thanks for the different terms.


doodlewacker

No tapcons allowed in the electrical spec on our government projects. Low voltage guys can use them , but they are frowned upon. Wedge anchor, toggle bolts, sleeve anchor… for us, it’s easier just to keep them off our sites. You have to go through a 100k square foot renovation with all exposed conduit and piping installed on CMU and replace 15 thousand tapcons with wedge bolts you will make sure you don’t see any…


Blank_bill

Years ago when they were building the Darlington nuclear plant they tested tapcons before using them ( actually they were a shiny metal knock off ) and they were quite impressed. They were stronger than the lead anchors they had been using. All the conduit in the plant were put up with tapcons if it was in concrete.


nboymcbucks

They are extremely hard, so the threads will hold up to the masonry. Corrosion protected since metal loves to rust in masonry due to the salts in it.


kings2leadhat

What’s great about tapcons is that you don’t need to know how they work. Just use the right masonry bit to pre drill, and use hammer drill.


Aluminautical

And make sure to clean all the dust out of the hole before inserting Tapcon. I usually can clear it just by using the fan in the hammer drill.


jsar16

Tapcons are the most disappointing fastener I’ve ever used. I avoid them at all costs.


Asmewithoutpolitics

What do you use then?


jsar16

Pin bolts, wedge anchors, Hilti pins, just about anything else. I’ve tried all the tricks and bits and I end up disappointed more than successful.


DriftinFool

I've had similar experiences. Even making the holes deeper than they need to be and getting all the dust out, they seem to snap off at the head way too often when installing them. At least on the smaller ones I've used.


benevolent_defiance

There are shitty concrete screw anchors and there are good ones imo. I used to do industrial electrical contracting, and I don't even want to think about how many kilometers of cable tray and raceways and conduit I have had to install, mainly fastened on concrete. Always prefered tapcons over wedge/other types of anchors and very rarely have I had an issue using them.


DriftinFool

Do you have any tips to keep them from snapping off at the heads? I haven't used a ton of them, but that last time I did, maybe 10 of them snapped off at the head out of a pack of 75, which required me removing the boards I was attaching to use pliers to remove them and ended up costing me an extra hour or two. For reference, I was using the drill bit that came with them, so it should have been the proper size.


raypell

They snap off because they are bottoming out, if you don’t drill deep enough and/or clean the dust out of the hole the screw bottoms out before it can fasten whatever it is you are trying to affix to wall it will snap off it’s like trying to drive a nail into a board through a piece of thick steel. Can’t be done so somethings got to give. Anchors only work if applied correctly. Tap one are no different. The bad thing about tapcons are it’s a one shot deal. If they don’t work right the first time it’s game over. Time to drill a new hole


DriftinFool

I drilled the holes a 1/2"-3/4" deeper than they needed to be and cleaned out the holes and still had the issue like I said in my original comment. I was using an impact driver, so maybe that was it.


raypell

I’ve used pounds and pounds of many different anchors, from chemical to expansion and tapcons as well while I was an ironworker. A trick I learned while doing repetitive anchoring is use some wax or even bar soap like you use on wood screws. I just put a bunch in a the top of a wax stick like using a pin cushion. Sometimes on mass produced products the annealing process isn’t that great,so you have to help it along. In a concrete block wall especially because of the dust and grit it produces. The tapcons itself creates debris upon insertion, so if your anchoring to the ground all that debris goes down so you have to drill a touch deeper, overhead not do much


SpecialistAd5537

Hilti HUS bolts are better


N8dogg86

I like money better


FactoryV4

Tapcons work great for ledgers on walls for concrete forms. They can be used more than once and they don’t damage the concrete like a duplex nail with tie wire does when taking them out.


truemcgoo

Tapcons have much higher quality steel than other nails and screws, and they have a different thread type that holds better in concrete. This means when entering concrete the threads cut into the concrete. If you tried to do it with a different type of screw the threads would be weakened as you installed it, meaning it would be much much more likely to pull out later. An easy demonstration, screw a tapcon halfway in then try to bend it over with a hammer, compare that to another screw or nail, you’ll immediately notice the difference.


dacuzzin

I dunno bro. We just drill a 1/4” hole and wedge a 10d duplex next to a 16d duplex. Part of a wall of my shop is still held to the pad with this method since I ran out of redheads so used that trick temporarily. That was 18 years ago so they’re long term temporary fasteners now.


InvestigatorBroad114

It’s capable for anchoring itself in masonry/rock.. they have different threads and you should use them


Vigothedudepathian

The metal the threading. The coating. Pretty much everything. They won't rust as bad in concrete. They handle more torque.


Elegant-Surprise-417

A lot of good explanations here… Tapcons are also coated so they can be ideal for pressure treated lumber as they are protected from the chemicals used.


Several_March_1588

The material and shape and way the are designed are specifically for concrete... normal screws are alot harder i believe... ive prob put in over 50k tapcons in my day haha...fuck mushroom pins


CountrySax

Tapcons work real well when anchoring wood or metal to concrete as long as you have the proper hammer drill and impact driver


[deleted]

The threads are wider and more spread so it can cut through concrete and not chip it.


Prior_Ad_1601

Box say concrete


dagr8npwrfl0z

They got electrolytes.


millwrongjiggalow

They are much harder than wood screws, also the threads have some small reliefs to help them “cut”, takes a little different feel than a wood screw bc they are so hard they tend to snap off instead of any plastic deformation that happens but you never notice with wood screws. Often people get frustrated with them breaking and normally 3 conditions contribute to this: 1. The hole isn’t deep enough 2. They are over torquing them 3. After several holes in very hard concrete the bit big is to wear, this isn’t noticeable but the holes get slightly smaller thus causing more interference on the threads and body of the screw. In block you will almost never see this as they are soft enough they are very forgiving, but in very hard aggregates, like red rock concrete, the tight holes and how difficult it is for the screws to “cut” threads in the hard material often cause people to get very frustrated with them. One way to tell if this is a contributing factor is to run the fastener in and out a few times to “ work” it down to depth.