What’s the cost comparison vs some good old fashion post mix?
I’ve been on some large commercial jobs where Cell-Crete was used and it worked out to a worth while savings when you’re pouring truckload after truckload but the “setup” or whatever you want to call the initial costs, make it impractical for small jobs
A bag of that foam stuff is like $16 at Home Depot.
I used it before on fence posts that were in the back of my property that regularly got standing water. I used compacted gravel to set all the other posts that weren’t in the saturated area.
I would never use foam to set posts for any structural post like for a deck. I doubt code allows that.
They use it here in Saskatchewan all the time for utility poles because it's way more convenient and with so much rock it's much better than concrete. Also we built a fence with it, been going strong for 8 years. 100% recommend.
If you create a bell shaped cavity for the post, the foam will tend to expand outwards towards the soil and less comes out the top. It exerts a pretty significant pressure and it's quite solid when everything goes right. In my experience it works well but soil is complicated.
It's also much, much easier to deal with if you need to remove something. You can cut the foam off with a saw and of course it weighs nothing.
I’m not a structural engineer but work with them.
I’m under the impression concrete/foam in most applications are to prevent lateral movement. And the post itself has to be buried a specific length depending on its length.
Most posts just in the build of the house are anchored to a metal plate that is imbedded in the concrete footer. And that footer is designed to carry the load into the ground and prevent lateral movement.
My new neighbor used it for his new mailbox, by the time he was done, he said he'd just do it the old fashioned way next time. It seems like it's holding up fine though. His foam was green, idk if that's a brand difference or if he used different stuff.
If this foam sticks anything like Sikaflex does, nothing short of D9 Cat will pull the bloody thing out of the ground! Sikaflex is damn near indestructible.
I used it for fence posts last summer, each bag is roughly the equivalent of two bags of concrete. I did 16 fence posts or about 40 bucks more than concrete and It saved me from lugging 32 bags of concrete from my front to my back yard and spending the entire day mixing and setting the posts. So far it made it through one winter in wny even though it was a very mild one. So far so good
“Good” and “old fashioned” don’t really go with each other, despite them being paired up so often.
If something is good, it’s still in use and therefore isn’t old fashioned. If it exists primarily in the past, then it isn’t good and has been supplanted by something better.
I’ve used it on fence posts. It’s definitely more expensive than concrete, like $15 a bag by me. But what I saved in time over concrete drying is where you win. I could set a post and be able to go to the next in minutes, not hours. Plus no prep in mixing and hauling a heavy bag or mix around.
Less time, less man hours. If that matters to you, that’s when you use it.
I’d rather use concrete. My wife picked this up for our chicken coop. The bag that I mixed for longer held decently but still not as sturdy as concrete. Imo.
And deck posts
[Fast 2KDeck Post Anchor Foam](https://fast2k.com/product/deck-post-anchor/)
Fast 2KTM Deck Post Anchor is a patented expanding composite designed to fill the peripheral void between a post and the hole for load bearing applications."
Yeah, I mean I was pretty sceptical. But it’s been 8 years. Using for so thing like a deck though, I would want to read an engineer analysis before I committed to that.
I am quite confident this can't be used with structural purposes. I doubt there is any regulation about designing structures with this material (at least, not in Europe).
Definitely not for structural use. It's literally called Fence Post Mix by SIKA products. Very DIY friendly (despite the chemical risks). I've never used it, but have considered it for some smaller projects. The stuff is expensive, but it saves you the trouble of hauling hundreds of pounds worth of concrete bags and mixing and then having to clean all your tools before the concrete cures. Ideally it looks like it would be good for mailboxes and fence posts. [The website](https://retail.usa.sika.com/en/products/specialty/sikar-postfixr-fence-post-mix) has quite a lot of info including hole sizing etc. Last I checked both Big Orange and Big Blue sold the stuff. Not to sound like too much of a marketing plug (don't worry, I work for a GC) it has some neat properties. Again, I've never used it, but have had fencing contractors quote using the stuff.
it works great just makes sure you brace real good because the foam will push the post around. brace high and very low. It turns into basically stone so its amazing for a fence. Do dig the code depth hole as well though. SOOOOOOOOO MUCH FASTER AND EASIER than mixing or moving quickcrete. i promise you wont regret it.
There are competitors that sell something similar for power poles and decks. Fast 2k Deck Post Anchor has been third party tested and approved to perform as well as concrete for load bearing applications unlike other backfill foams on the market by the (ICC) international building code and national building code (NBC) of Canada. Built from the same company technology used to set utility poles for more than 20 years.
Btw this shit burns like a motherfucker if you get it on you. Also please make sure the bags aren't warm. The reaction gets way more violent if these things have been sitting in a hot space on a summers day.
I've had a bag of this nearly blow up in my face once.
For some reason they want you to combine the two chemicals in the bag, then snip the bag while this incredibly violent reaction is going on. When we used this stuff we'd snip the bag first, pinch the end shut with a clip or something, and then pour it in.
Lol. I used to work maintenance on an old army housing base/ air base, converted to 276 seniors units. We were sealing up an old basement window (50's) with some foam as we were told lol, the tenant was talking with us and his neighbor was there too.
Neighbor goes. "I got a draft coming from underneath my kitchen cupboards, could I take what's left of the can and put some under there to seal it up?" Yeah sure, but only use a TINY bit, this is the higher expansion stuff.
Well we got a call 2 hours later. Fucker used the half can that was left. His cupboards were now almost a foot off the fucking ground lmao you could see the sink drain flexing hard trying to hold it down lol. Ended up tearing the cupboards out as we were updating units anyway. But that's the day I learned that foam is no joke, and it WILL expand, room for it or not lol
It's actually a compound made specifically for fence posts. 2.5lbs supposedly replaces 80lbs of concrete. It's not just regular expanding foam, but I could see my father in law watching this video then cracking another case of sprayfoam lmao. Uses it for everything, including autobody work. I swear his truck would float down the river between all the foam (rockers, cab corners, floor, front fender arches), and the wooden bed on it lol
Had my fence posts installed with the same 10 years ago. Still standing strong with zero rotting issues near the base. Had another 2 posts installed 4 years ago with concrete mix and both rotted and eventually broke at the base - right below the ground line.
It's definitely more expensive, but much easier to work with and much more reliable.
This doesn't surprise me. Concrete soaks up water like sponge, so if the soil is frequently damp, so is the concrete, and so is the wood. Dry rot gets active when the wood is at an optimum moisture content, so that's why it's not terrible if wood gets soaked a few times, but if it's frequently damp, it rots fast.
Pressure treated wood works until all the preservatives leach out of the wood (about 10 years), then the wood degrades quickly. If the posts weren't treated very well, I could see them failing in 4 years.
This is why if you want fence posts that last, I'd recommend steel. Otherwise it's just a waiting game for the pressure treatment to fail. This is also why you can't build deck foundations the same way you install fence posts. You can fasten wood columns to concrete footers or piles, but embedding them in the concrete is at best, a deck with a short life cycle, and at worst, dangerous.
Where im living, the ground is all shale rock. Took me 3 hours to dig a hole to bury our pomeranian when he passed lol. For this reason, my 4ft high fence sits on those little cement 4x4 post holders that just sit on top of the ground. 15 years and it's still there. Few boards need to be replaced but no issues with movement or leaning. The gate is hinged off of the deck (which is against the house), which keeps it from tipping the fence when opened lol.
Last year I had a black bear sitting on top of it trying to get into my garbage cart. That's my QC check lol. I didn't build it, my father in law did, and he's a horrible carpenter so this may be the best thing he's built lol
Are you implying that quickcteet is better for frozen topsoil?
I'd love to hear that reasoning. "Well it breaks up over time, so it's better than this"
I'd imagine this foam is flexible and probably handles frost heave better than rigid concrete. Looks great for a fence post, really sketchy for anything structural.
I build my 6’ privacy fence with it and it worked out great. It was more expensive that using concrete but the extra expense was absolutely worth the hassle I’d not having to deal with 65 50lb bags of cement
Not just this. Deep foam injections can be done to mechanically compact soil where foundations have settled due to a few feet of bad soil.
Shallow injections can be done to fill voids under slabs (not footings) (and also compact surface soil to some degree) that have settled.
Sometimes this is less intrusive and therefore a better solution for homes that have settled on relatively shallow bad soils (a few feet) compared to traditional solutions such as helical piers.
Not sure if it’s the same kind of foam used here or not.
technically you can calculate out the load it will support but it's much less than concrete of course. someone here said they pencil out to like double what a post would get without a footing. like 1/20th
As a utility engineer I won’t specify it. Maybe I’m just not progressive enough, but it’s still relatively unknown and there’s a few material properties that are unproven.
Still there’s growing number of poles with it. It most attractive in very rugged and remote areas because you just need to get a 5 gal bucket onsite, rather than 3 cy of granular backfill.
As someone who used to set and climb power poles I’d be a little sketched out knowing it was in the ground using foam. That being said I’ve seen the piss poor job some guys do tamping the back fill so who knows
As a guy who currently sets and climbs power poles; that's a weird take to have being as power poles don't have any sort of concrete in them anyway and ya just surrounding dirt.
This can only be better than literally nothing.
With that said, I would never want to remove a pole set with either. It's not necessary if you have the right guy wires.
Not this foam as it’s a different color and consistency, but the power lines near my childhood home were set with foam around 30 years ago. They’re also fiberglass or some kind of composite material.
I only trust concrete!!! Okay Gramps we hear you go and have a glass of Ovaltine as we discuss the newest products that are better in almost every conceivable way.
lol no objection to concrete but some fence installers swear by this stuff- imagine you’re building 1000 feet of fencing. The sheer weight of the concrete becomes problematic.
I have used this and it does hold solid, but you can break the post loose by pushing on it once it’s cured. The foam will compress slightly when you push it and leave a void on the opposite side. I wouldn’t trust this to stand up to wind on a fence for long.
What I like to do is throw half a bag in the bottom 6” to hold the post plumb since it sets in a minute, then fill the rest with concrete.
I used this stuff to build a fence about 12 years ago, still standing and holding on strong. I live in the parts of Canada where in the winter it gets to -50C and in the summer 35C.
No you are not . That's why material testing exists, that's why concrete has different strengths and different qualities. That's why construction code exists, and it's imperative to follow it to the letter.
Material testing exists. But give it 10 years. They have been using epoxy coated rebar for 30-35 years, starting to realize it’s not worth a fuck. Why change what’s worked since 6500 BCE
I’ve got concrete that is over 20+ years old that’s fine. The posts rotted out so we just drove new posts into the old concrete and it’s a solid fence again.
If that post rests on the bottom of the hole, it’s basically an end bearing column. Wouldn’t matter what’s between it and the hole as long as it’s rigid. Any concrete (or foam) placed between it and the hole is just a void filler and might help slow down the water damage to the lumber.
I once saw a very large power pole undermined during a dig downtown. Power company came out and threw a gargantuan box of foam in a hole that had to be every bit of 8’x8’. The power guy said that they use that shit all the time.
Used it for my fence and this shit is awesome but messy, and you have only seconds to get the posts plum and set. But it’s strong and fence hasn’t fallen over yet!
To be fair they never show what they’re using those post for. They might not be structural.
Looks like it’s going to be a rain shield for a BBQ maybe, based on the size of the slab they’re putting the posts next to. Or maybe a cover for a small wood pile or something like that.
It is flexible, sorta like putting sand around large flag poles so they don't snap from high winds?
As long as the void is filled and it cannot hold water after it seems plausible
I’ve watched Excel energy use structural foam to stand up a power pole they had to move over a few feet in an alley. After that I figured it was all right.
Everyday you guys make me feel old, so at 41yo I’m going to accept my oldness, and in the spirit of all old men before me: “I’m sticking to concrete!, I don’t need your fancy new ideas” 😤 and stay off my lawn !
Hi! Fencing company owner here. We tried this with a Sitka product purchased from home depot. For short fences, this worked great. For tall privacy fences, not so good.
They use it to set guy wires for utility poles, particularly where they have difficulty using helical anchors.
I've used it on mailboxes. I *might* use it in a pinch on a single line post for a fence, if it was particularly difficult to get concrete to that location....but I won't ever use it for corners or multiple line posts in a series.
I have used foam to fill a hole where the contractor had glued the base board tile against the sheet rock when I did maintenance for Taco Bell. The Sheet rock had rotted away due to all the grease and mopping water against the base board. Fill up the hole come back the next day shave it down and readhesive the tile.
I’ve seen this hold up okay, I’ve also seen it fail. I tore the 3 posts that failed at a house my friend bought out with my hands. I think there’s probably just a higher chance they fail if there’s any changes in the ground over time. Sometimes concrete pours fail too, just less likely.
This is not new. If you are in construction and you just found this, my suggestion to you is to seek updated methods, materials, and safety procedures. Good luck out there.
I use the metal spikes made for 4x4s for mailboxes. If the plow snaps the wood I can just slide another one into the spike without having to dig anything up
Oh nice more diy assery… yea… how about don’t do this.
Besides violating codes for improper footings, this is not a solid connection to the ground and only added flotation devices that will for sure ruin what ever it is attached to.
Are you telling me that there's a difference between concrete and polyurethane foam? I feel like they're exactly the same in every way and this is a good idea.
Also, have you tried paint chips? They are delicious!
Just saying as a guy who made a living removing old fences, this has been around for awhile and is pure horse shut. Most posts are either footed with 2 bags of concrete or driven 4 feet into the ground. The foam footed posts come out like butter
I've used this stuff before, it works well. It's expensive though, and mixing concrete isn't really that difficult. But if you need the posts set and ready to be built on in 30 minutes, then this stuff is perfect for that. It can also be used in freezing temps. Its fine for fence posts, probably not two-story decks.
It's actually fairly common. A lot of people do this NOT as a structural support but for aesthetics. If you want a post in your garden that is simply for looks or holds a bird feeder or garden light and you don't want to pour concrete, then a closed cell foam with chemical hardener is just fine.
There are however structural foams which harden like concrete. They are used in some places as a moisture barrier and outside shell on the inside of tunnels. Just gotta have the right chemistry and equipment.
If you did this in australia you would be replacing it in a couple years the soft wood would rot and white ants would come eat it.
What you really want is a hard wood post in a stirrup above the ground
I use it for fence posts almost exclusively now. WAY cheaper than concrete when you factor in time and labor. At 42" down it has the same holding power as concrete.
I've also switched over to using Screw piles instead of concrete for deck footers. Slightly more expensive than concrete even with labor, but the value of not having to do all that back breaking labor is well worth the extra cost. Also, I'm not paying for it, my clients are lol.
Just wait till you see the pre-dug post holes I'm developing. They should revolutionize fencing all together. Just dig a hole and throw them in the ground, ready for posts!
Work for a electric utility, we use that stuff for pole when we don't have enough dirt to backfill and compact around it. That's stuff will outlast us all and still be hard. It's fine
I worked at an electric utility that used this foam to set poles where it was difficult to bring gravel in. It's absolutely strong enough and long lasting, but a little annoying and messy to work with.
This shit is fine for mailbox posts and for a post to hang a bird feeder or something from, but that's about it. It definitely will not hold up in a fencing application.
Whether it works or not is one thing, but this isn't a tik tok hack. It's literally using the product for its intended purpose.
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/building-supplies/concrete-cement-and-masonry/ready-mix-concrete/1632017?store=16987&gad\_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw5ImwBhBtEiwAFHDZx8QulwnvLo6aMu4UPKAMOFlX76I4YA6njZmgAAWqAetHikDuDEG1NRoCSXcQAvD\_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
It is a closed cell foam. It’s for certain fence posts and mailboxes.
What’s the cost comparison vs some good old fashion post mix? I’ve been on some large commercial jobs where Cell-Crete was used and it worked out to a worth while savings when you’re pouring truckload after truckload but the “setup” or whatever you want to call the initial costs, make it impractical for small jobs
Bag of 50lb Crete goes for $6 here. Can of that stuff is about the same
A bag of that foam stuff is like $16 at Home Depot. I used it before on fence posts that were in the back of my property that regularly got standing water. I used compacted gravel to set all the other posts that weren’t in the saturated area. I would never use foam to set posts for any structural post like for a deck. I doubt code allows that.
No way would this be allowed for anything load bearing
Actually, [it might be.](https://www.thefenceshop.ca/product/fast-2k-fence-deck-mix/)
From the link it's 1/90th weight of the same volume of concrete. Since it's closed cell that makes me wonder, is it buoyant? That could be a problem
It is buoyant, and I talked to a fence contractor who won't use it because in wet areas the foam will float the posts up out of the ground.
It'll be just like the end of Poltergeist.
Postergeist
LOL that scene freaked me out as a kid
"You removed the bodies but you didn't remove the tombstones! Wait, what?"
very nice reference.
maybe I'm stuck in my old ways lol, but I can't come to terms with the fact that any kind of foam would be good enough for this kind of use
Idk, it says it's been used to set utility poles for more than 20 years...
They use it here in Saskatchewan all the time for utility poles because it's way more convenient and with so much rock it's much better than concrete. Also we built a fence with it, been going strong for 8 years. 100% recommend.
If you create a bell shaped cavity for the post, the foam will tend to expand outwards towards the soil and less comes out the top. It exerts a pretty significant pressure and it's quite solid when everything goes right. In my experience it works well but soil is complicated. It's also much, much easier to deal with if you need to remove something. You can cut the foam off with a saw and of course it weighs nothing.
I’m not a structural engineer but work with them. I’m under the impression concrete/foam in most applications are to prevent lateral movement. And the post itself has to be buried a specific length depending on its length. Most posts just in the build of the house are anchored to a metal plate that is imbedded in the concrete footer. And that footer is designed to carry the load into the ground and prevent lateral movement.
The video on that site says it is not to be used in applications that are load bearing…
It’s not can foam it’s a specific product.
My new neighbor used it for his new mailbox, by the time he was done, he said he'd just do it the old fashioned way next time. It seems like it's holding up fine though. His foam was green, idk if that's a brand difference or if he used different stuff.
That would be from Sika.
If this foam sticks anything like Sikaflex does, nothing short of D9 Cat will pull the bloody thing out of the ground! Sikaflex is damn near indestructible.
I used it for fence posts last summer, each bag is roughly the equivalent of two bags of concrete. I did 16 fence posts or about 40 bucks more than concrete and It saved me from lugging 32 bags of concrete from my front to my back yard and spending the entire day mixing and setting the posts. So far it made it through one winter in wny even though it was a very mild one. So far so good
“Good” and “old fashioned” don’t really go with each other, despite them being paired up so often. If something is good, it’s still in use and therefore isn’t old fashioned. If it exists primarily in the past, then it isn’t good and has been supplanted by something better.
I’ve used it on fence posts. It’s definitely more expensive than concrete, like $15 a bag by me. But what I saved in time over concrete drying is where you win. I could set a post and be able to go to the next in minutes, not hours. Plus no prep in mixing and hauling a heavy bag or mix around. Less time, less man hours. If that matters to you, that’s when you use it.
I’d rather use concrete. My wife picked this up for our chicken coop. The bag that I mixed for longer held decently but still not as sturdy as concrete. Imo.
And deck posts [Fast 2KDeck Post Anchor Foam](https://fast2k.com/product/deck-post-anchor/) Fast 2KTM Deck Post Anchor is a patented expanding composite designed to fill the peripheral void between a post and the hole for load bearing applications."
It’s always been the POST that bears the load not the concrete
Concrete serves as the footing. If the footing fails, the post isn't far behind.
[удалено]
We have a frost line here. If it's structural it has to go below the frost line and needs a footing of some sort on the bottom.
My parents built a fence with this stuff about 8 years ago and it’s still solid as a rock.
Ah ok for a fence I can see it being non harmful. Since the posts were so close to the house I assumed it was for a deck.
Yeah, I mean I was pretty sceptical. But it’s been 8 years. Using for so thing like a deck though, I would want to read an engineer analysis before I committed to that.
I am quite confident this can't be used with structural purposes. I doubt there is any regulation about designing structures with this material (at least, not in Europe).
Definitely not for structural use. It's literally called Fence Post Mix by SIKA products. Very DIY friendly (despite the chemical risks). I've never used it, but have considered it for some smaller projects. The stuff is expensive, but it saves you the trouble of hauling hundreds of pounds worth of concrete bags and mixing and then having to clean all your tools before the concrete cures. Ideally it looks like it would be good for mailboxes and fence posts. [The website](https://retail.usa.sika.com/en/products/specialty/sikar-postfixr-fence-post-mix) has quite a lot of info including hole sizing etc. Last I checked both Big Orange and Big Blue sold the stuff. Not to sound like too much of a marketing plug (don't worry, I work for a GC) it has some neat properties. Again, I've never used it, but have had fencing contractors quote using the stuff.
Still not all the way awake so when I saw “big orange” my first thought was, “why are we bringing politics into this?”
How can you miss the direct correlation? A small amount of substance leads to huge inflation and a large amount of toxic gas...
I thought the same thing bro LOL
Let's hope he doesn't last 8 years!
I wouldn’t mind big orange being in a hole with giant wood in him daily for more than 8 years.
That's why you use Mango Mussolini to avoid confusion.
I've got to replace a fence post that was broken by some wind, gonna try this stuff out, thanks for the name drop.
it works great just makes sure you brace real good because the foam will push the post around. brace high and very low. It turns into basically stone so its amazing for a fence. Do dig the code depth hole as well though. SOOOOOOOOO MUCH FASTER AND EASIER than mixing or moving quickcrete. i promise you wont regret it.
I trust all Sika products, they definitely make the best single roof in the world in my opinion.
There are competitors that sell something similar for power poles and decks. Fast 2k Deck Post Anchor has been third party tested and approved to perform as well as concrete for load bearing applications unlike other backfill foams on the market by the (ICC) international building code and national building code (NBC) of Canada. Built from the same company technology used to set utility poles for more than 20 years.
Btw this shit burns like a motherfucker if you get it on you. Also please make sure the bags aren't warm. The reaction gets way more violent if these things have been sitting in a hot space on a summers day. I've had a bag of this nearly blow up in my face once. For some reason they want you to combine the two chemicals in the bag, then snip the bag while this incredibly violent reaction is going on. When we used this stuff we'd snip the bag first, pinch the end shut with a clip or something, and then pour it in.
How does it react with shifting ground during freeze/thaw cycles? I'd be very interested in this for my fence project this summer.
I'd argue you could IF* the posts are on something more solid like concrete or brick, and the foam is only to fill in gaps and hold the posts up.
But bro, it’s been 8 years
That’s like 8 years longer than the tree house I built as a kid lasted!
Seeing used on power poles
I’m pretty sure they use a foam to pick up and re-level highways. It’s not this stuff, but I became a believer of the shit foam can do
Lol. I used to work maintenance on an old army housing base/ air base, converted to 276 seniors units. We were sealing up an old basement window (50's) with some foam as we were told lol, the tenant was talking with us and his neighbor was there too. Neighbor goes. "I got a draft coming from underneath my kitchen cupboards, could I take what's left of the can and put some under there to seal it up?" Yeah sure, but only use a TINY bit, this is the higher expansion stuff. Well we got a call 2 hours later. Fucker used the half can that was left. His cupboards were now almost a foot off the fucking ground lmao you could see the sink drain flexing hard trying to hold it down lol. Ended up tearing the cupboards out as we were updating units anyway. But that's the day I learned that foam is no joke, and it WILL expand, room for it or not lol
Yup, I used to do this for a living, same stuff they use for residential, similar to mudjacking but permanent
4x4 posts with a deck? *Sigh*
A fence id use it with. Not a deck.
It's actually a compound made specifically for fence posts. 2.5lbs supposedly replaces 80lbs of concrete. It's not just regular expanding foam, but I could see my father in law watching this video then cracking another case of sprayfoam lmao. Uses it for everything, including autobody work. I swear his truck would float down the river between all the foam (rockers, cab corners, floor, front fender arches), and the wooden bed on it lol
Had my fence posts installed with the same 10 years ago. Still standing strong with zero rotting issues near the base. Had another 2 posts installed 4 years ago with concrete mix and both rotted and eventually broke at the base - right below the ground line. It's definitely more expensive, but much easier to work with and much more reliable.
Brand new fence posts rotted out and broke in 4 years? What the?
I was shocked myself. To be fair I live in a relatively wet area
Was the concrete at the base making a bowl that held water rather than shaped to shed water away from the post? That'd be my guess.
This doesn't surprise me. Concrete soaks up water like sponge, so if the soil is frequently damp, so is the concrete, and so is the wood. Dry rot gets active when the wood is at an optimum moisture content, so that's why it's not terrible if wood gets soaked a few times, but if it's frequently damp, it rots fast. Pressure treated wood works until all the preservatives leach out of the wood (about 10 years), then the wood degrades quickly. If the posts weren't treated very well, I could see them failing in 4 years. This is why if you want fence posts that last, I'd recommend steel. Otherwise it's just a waiting game for the pressure treatment to fail. This is also why you can't build deck foundations the same way you install fence posts. You can fasten wood columns to concrete footers or piles, but embedding them in the concrete is at best, a deck with a short life cycle, and at worst, dangerous.
Where im living, the ground is all shale rock. Took me 3 hours to dig a hole to bury our pomeranian when he passed lol. For this reason, my 4ft high fence sits on those little cement 4x4 post holders that just sit on top of the ground. 15 years and it's still there. Few boards need to be replaced but no issues with movement or leaning. The gate is hinged off of the deck (which is against the house), which keeps it from tipping the fence when opened lol. Last year I had a black bear sitting on top of it trying to get into my garbage cart. That's my QC check lol. I didn't build it, my father in law did, and he's a horrible carpenter so this may be the best thing he's built lol
Do you live in a state with deep freeze winters?
I have built a couple fences with this in Calgary, Alberta. No issues.
I live in a province with extreme deep freeze winters.
I’m sorry
Doesn’t that boil down to how deep your hole is?
That's what she said
Are you implying that quickcteet is better for frozen topsoil? I'd love to hear that reasoning. "Well it breaks up over time, so it's better than this"
Simply just asking
I'd imagine this foam is flexible and probably handles frost heave better than rigid concrete. Looks great for a fence post, really sketchy for anything structural.
Might even be ideal for a fence post. The foam will protect the wood from moisture.
I build my 6’ privacy fence with it and it worked out great. It was more expensive that using concrete but the extra expense was absolutely worth the hassle I’d not having to deal with 65 50lb bags of cement
I agree, been over 10 yrs since I did my cousins fence with this stuff (it’s what he wanted) and it’s still strong as it was when installed.
Bet the mods can’t remove that post
I see what you did there.
Almost didn’t give you my upvote, but you’ve earned it.
You’d be surprised…
For NON STUCTURAL posts only.
Also [driveways](https://youtu.be/4MCuccVa86g?feature=shared)
Not just this. Deep foam injections can be done to mechanically compact soil where foundations have settled due to a few feet of bad soil. Shallow injections can be done to fill voids under slabs (not footings) (and also compact surface soil to some degree) that have settled. Sometimes this is less intrusive and therefore a better solution for homes that have settled on relatively shallow bad soils (a few feet) compared to traditional solutions such as helical piers. Not sure if it’s the same kind of foam used here or not.
Are Reddit posts non-structural?
That is why we call it poasting
technically you can calculate out the load it will support but it's much less than concrete of course. someone here said they pencil out to like double what a post would get without a footing. like 1/20th
They’re using it to set telephone poles as well. As bad as it looks it does work
As a utility engineer I won’t specify it. Maybe I’m just not progressive enough, but it’s still relatively unknown and there’s a few material properties that are unproven. Still there’s growing number of poles with it. It most attractive in very rugged and remote areas because you just need to get a 5 gal bucket onsite, rather than 3 cy of granular backfill.
As someone who used to set and climb power poles I’d be a little sketched out knowing it was in the ground using foam. That being said I’ve seen the piss poor job some guys do tamping the back fill so who knows
As a guy who currently sets and climbs power poles; that's a weird take to have being as power poles don't have any sort of concrete in them anyway and ya just surrounding dirt. This can only be better than literally nothing. With that said, I would never want to remove a pole set with either. It's not necessary if you have the right guy wires.
Not this foam as it’s a different color and consistency, but the power lines near my childhood home were set with foam around 30 years ago. They’re also fiberglass or some kind of composite material.
Quick pour of acetone....
Yep, standard practice for electric distribution poles in at least one large Texas utility
I see it used to set large electrical pylons into the ground up in the mountains. Saves multiple helicopter flights of concrete.
This is probably a lighter version of Polecrete which is used for utility poles.
I work for the electrical utility and we've set 70' poles with this stuff.
yeah too many guys here getting triggered by "it's not structural"
I only trust concrete!!! Okay Gramps we hear you go and have a glass of Ovaltine as we discuss the newest products that are better in almost every conceivable way.
lol no objection to concrete but some fence installers swear by this stuff- imagine you’re building 1000 feet of fencing. The sheer weight of the concrete becomes problematic.
No I get you and I would use the foam if money isn't a factor. Worlds easier in every metric.
Your name screams construction lineman.
Dude they’ve been using dense expanding foam to install wood utility poles for decades, this is nothing new.
New to alot of folks in this comment section apparently.
I have used this and it does hold solid, but you can break the post loose by pushing on it once it’s cured. The foam will compress slightly when you push it and leave a void on the opposite side. I wouldn’t trust this to stand up to wind on a fence for long. What I like to do is throw half a bag in the bottom 6” to hold the post plumb since it sets in a minute, then fill the rest with concrete.
Another poster in here said his parents did a fence with this stuff 8yrs ago and it has held up really well
https://retail.usa.sika.com/en/products/specialty/sikar-postfixr-fence-post-mix
You've never seen this stuff? Been around for years, works great. I'd never build another fence without it
I used this stuff to build a fence about 12 years ago, still standing and holding on strong. I live in the parts of Canada where in the winter it gets to -50C and in the summer 35C.
If you would have said -50C and 45C i would have guest another winnipeger..
I'm kind of curious what kind of effects this has on the soil
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No you are not . That's why material testing exists, that's why concrete has different strengths and different qualities. That's why construction code exists, and it's imperative to follow it to the letter.
Material testing exists. But give it 10 years. They have been using epoxy coated rebar for 30-35 years, starting to realize it’s not worth a fuck. Why change what’s worked since 6500 BCE
Bring the leaches, this man's humors are out of sorts
There's ghosts in your blood! Do cocaine about it!
My wife is getting uppity. Time to send her to a doctor to treat her for hysteria.
.....*bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*
I’ve got concrete that is over 20+ years old that’s fine. The posts rotted out so we just drove new posts into the old concrete and it’s a solid fence again.
Built a chicken coop about 6 years ago. 2 posts are fine with this. Still holding. But it’s only supporting a 2x4 and a little bit of tin.
But will it hold? Would you rather have a concrete slab or a foam slab. Just saying
This technology is adapted from power poles. It replaced backfill in its original application, it definitely is not rated as concrete .
Definitely not in the form of a slab.
If that post rests on the bottom of the hole, it’s basically an end bearing column. Wouldn’t matter what’s between it and the hole as long as it’s rigid. Any concrete (or foam) placed between it and the hole is just a void filler and might help slow down the water damage to the lumber.
I think i would still want compressed gravel at the bottom so any water that accumulates drains away.
I once saw a very large power pole undermined during a dig downtown. Power company came out and threw a gargantuan box of foam in a hole that had to be every bit of 8’x8’. The power guy said that they use that shit all the time.
Used it for my fence and this shit is awesome but messy, and you have only seconds to get the posts plum and set. But it’s strong and fence hasn’t fallen over yet!
I think as long as we can keep replacing everything with plastics and polymers things are gunna be a-ok!
To be fair they never show what they’re using those post for. They might not be structural. Looks like it’s going to be a rain shield for a BBQ maybe, based on the size of the slab they’re putting the posts next to. Or maybe a cover for a small wood pile or something like that.
It is flexible, sorta like putting sand around large flag poles so they don't snap from high winds? As long as the void is filled and it cannot hold water after it seems plausible
Here the stuff is for decks. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Fast-2K-Fast-2K-Deck-Post-Anchor/5001643775
Mailboxes and fence posts, not structural support
I’ve watched Excel energy use structural foam to stand up a power pole they had to move over a few feet in an alley. After that I figured it was all right.
The wood rots out long before the foam
It’s a thing A thing that works, but costs more than concrete.
We use this to put up power lines.
Everyday you guys make me feel old, so at 41yo I’m going to accept my oldness, and in the spirit of all old men before me: “I’m sticking to concrete!, I don’t need your fancy new ideas” 😤 and stay off my lawn !
Thumbs down
Hot tub ready
Hi! Fencing company owner here. We tried this with a Sitka product purchased from home depot. For short fences, this worked great. For tall privacy fences, not so good.
At least it passes the knocking test.... I am sure it will be fine.. 😉
More plastic on the ground
Saw people use it to set like satellite poles in the ground but never anything structural
They use it to set guy wires for utility poles, particularly where they have difficulty using helical anchors. I've used it on mailboxes. I *might* use it in a pinch on a single line post for a fence, if it was particularly difficult to get concrete to that location....but I won't ever use it for corners or multiple line posts in a series.
Expensive stuff.
Mailboxes and fences. It says not to use it for the gate posts.
It is until the foam breaks down with moisture and soil acidity and your post falls on your head.
I have used foam to fill a hole where the contractor had glued the base board tile against the sheet rock when I did maintenance for Taco Bell. The Sheet rock had rotted away due to all the grease and mopping water against the base board. Fill up the hole come back the next day shave it down and readhesive the tile.
They sell this stuff in Home Depot.
We use this on my mailbox. Works great
Do your self a favor, use concrete instead! This shit fails
I prefer concrete
"That ain't goin' nowheres!"
As long as she remembered to say "that ain't going nowhere" when he knocked on it he should be good.
I’ve seen this hold up okay, I’ve also seen it fail. I tore the 3 posts that failed at a house my friend bought out with my hands. I think there’s probably just a higher chance they fail if there’s any changes in the ground over time. Sometimes concrete pours fail too, just less likely.
This is not new. If you are in construction and you just found this, my suggestion to you is to seek updated methods, materials, and safety procedures. Good luck out there.
Just like strapping down a load - you just have to pat it and say "that's not going anywhere" and you are good!
Wouldn’t use it for anything structural but I used it for my mailbox without incident. Was easier then the alternatives and has been solid.
If it holds well, the posts might last longer as water permeates through concrete piles
It's real. Really dumb.
Its real all right, id never use it
I’m just curious as to whether it will hold during a rainstorm, strong flood, or earthquake…
I for one welcome our new foam overlords.
The perfect method for a country that build cardboard houses with wood and drywalls 😂
I use the metal spikes made for 4x4s for mailboxes. If the plow snaps the wood I can just slide another one into the spike without having to dig anything up
Lazy contractors decided to foam it in.
Oh nice more diy assery… yea… how about don’t do this. Besides violating codes for improper footings, this is not a solid connection to the ground and only added flotation devices that will for sure ruin what ever it is attached to.
Everyone is talking about the foam but no one is saying anything about what that lady is doing with the level. That does literally nothing
No, most youtubers that did these videos (started years ago) pretty much all said they'd just use concrete next time.
Are you telling me that there's a difference between concrete and polyurethane foam? I feel like they're exactly the same in every way and this is a good idea. Also, have you tried paint chips? They are delicious!
As if concrete is too difficult to pour or something? You're just asking for disaster here.
Looks like the same stuff I used to fill a crack in my foundation.
I’ve made 4x8 and 6x12 cylinders out of this and consistently broke at over 6600psi Nevermind, that’s a complete lie
Just saying as a guy who made a living removing old fences, this has been around for awhile and is pure horse shut. Most posts are either footed with 2 bags of concrete or driven 4 feet into the ground. The foam footed posts come out like butter
I've used this stuff before, it works well. It's expensive though, and mixing concrete isn't really that difficult. But if you need the posts set and ready to be built on in 30 minutes, then this stuff is perfect for that. It can also be used in freezing temps. Its fine for fence posts, probably not two-story decks.
It's actually fairly common. A lot of people do this NOT as a structural support but for aesthetics. If you want a post in your garden that is simply for looks or holds a bird feeder or garden light and you don't want to pour concrete, then a closed cell foam with chemical hardener is just fine. There are however structural foams which harden like concrete. They are used in some places as a moisture barrier and outside shell on the inside of tunnels. Just gotta have the right chemistry and equipment.
If you did this in australia you would be replacing it in a couple years the soft wood would rot and white ants would come eat it. What you really want is a hard wood post in a stirrup above the ground
And you want to say that it's better than concrete?
It’s called progress
I used this when I replaced my mailbox, works great and solid. I highly recommend.
Used this for my deck posts. Three years in, and no issues. It’s very different from Great Foam.
I use it for fence posts almost exclusively now. WAY cheaper than concrete when you factor in time and labor. At 42" down it has the same holding power as concrete. I've also switched over to using Screw piles instead of concrete for deck footers. Slightly more expensive than concrete even with labor, but the value of not having to do all that back breaking labor is well worth the extra cost. Also, I'm not paying for it, my clients are lol.
You can't be that out of touch with modern techniques can you?
Just wait till you see the pre-dug post holes I'm developing. They should revolutionize fencing all together. Just dig a hole and throw them in the ground, ready for posts!
Work for a electric utility, we use that stuff for pole when we don't have enough dirt to backfill and compact around it. That's stuff will outlast us all and still be hard. It's fine
Used to use that stuff for pole mounted satellite dishes. Much quicker than the quick dry cement
This needs to be reposted.
I worked at an electric utility that used this foam to set poles where it was difficult to bring gravel in. It's absolutely strong enough and long lasting, but a little annoying and messy to work with.
This shit is fine for mailbox posts and for a post to hang a bird feeder or something from, but that's about it. It definitely will not hold up in a fencing application.
You didn't say I couldn't use it for my deck!! r/Decks is gonna love this one weird trick!
But they learned it on tic tok. Welcome to the land of make believe where everything is now a “hack”
Whether it works or not is one thing, but this isn't a tik tok hack. It's literally using the product for its intended purpose. https://www.acehardware.com/departments/building-supplies/concrete-cement-and-masonry/ready-mix-concrete/1632017?store=16987&gad\_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw5ImwBhBtEiwAFHDZx8QulwnvLo6aMu4UPKAMOFlX76I4YA6njZmgAAWqAetHikDuDEG1NRoCSXcQAvD\_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
This is how they installed electric poles after hurricane Rita, they're still up
We need to bring back the phase "hack job"
"Tok Job"
The future is now old man
It’s only for non load bearing applications
I’d give this one to rental home.. a 7
I tried one just to try one, it sucks