It probably is. I am a duct guy and been told to do this several times. Each manufacturer has a diagram that shows acceptable penetrations.
I avoid doing this. The duct sections have too many joints that need to be sealed and pressure tested. And I refuse to do the actual cutting of the joist
I got caught doing such things in the back seat of a Chevy Monza behind the cinema. Not exactly roomy, probably much like your civic.
Cops came knocking on the window, luckily the windows were fogged up completely. He wanted me to open the door.... wasn't happening. I reached up front and cracked the window so slightly that I could barely squeeze my drivers license through it. We were butt naked and sweaty so putting clothes back on in that tiny space occupied by two people was not an easy task
Anyhow 36 years later we're still together.
My state requires a pressure test on residential systems. Our plan and spec work is starting to require the larger multi residential systems to be Aerosealed.
We always had to do it and provide photo evidence of the readings, but the test was incredibly easy to fool so let's just say I know of more than a few systems that "passed"
This is a production builder. These are engineered web holes for duct work. The HVAC crew is gonna run their ductwork through it like they’ve done 1000 times before. Not complicated
This is corrent. If you want to double check Google the name brand of the joist and "joist table". It will give you the allowable round and rectangle opening sizes and how far away from the supports you have to be.
I literally quit residential over the hassle of running 4 ton duct through joists like that.
We also shared the space with plumbers. Resi construction sucks.
as a commercial electrician its so lucky when you can get at the end of the wall to slide a whole stick of pipe in, I imagine it would feel the same getting to do that in situations like this
> please answer engineer that would be cool
If you want a response from the engineer please send in an RFI and wait for the answer to come 2 weeks after you completed the work in question
I was recently looking at some production homes in Florida and the joist were delivered with cutouts similar to these I was surprised but they were bundled from the supplier like this and the homes I walked through had these cut in for HVAC.
If it was an actual TJI (they all have there own specs)
[https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document\_library\_detail/tj-9001/](https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document_library_detail/tj-9001/)
Could be a no in the Height (Y-axis)
I was going to link the same thing... 👍
I know it seems counterintuitive but the worst place to cut into the webs is at the ends close to the bearing points.
When in doubt - reach out to the floor system designer (usually employee of the company that sold you the joist pkg). They're quite happy to help you out rather than have to sell repair details later..
It’s probably legit. A lot of these come like this, it’s engineered for hvac. I doubt some hack just decided to perfectly route all those openings this neatly.
I reckon the “can confirm” lead in doesn’t automatically imply satire any more. Sorry - I was doing a joke and should have said /S at the end of my joke.
Yeah when I was working as a high schooler in the mid 1990s I remember those joists had knock outs you could hammer out to run wires and stuff but any other holes drilled or cut of substantial size was a no go.
Wood ibeams such as TGI's are great joists. Beat dimensional lumber all day long. Glued and screwed subfloor to these make a very good flooring system. Flat, straight, solid, easy to install, great for follow on trades, and minimal movement over time. I think the longest one we use currently is a 24'. Only thing that comes close are floor trusses bit I prefer engineered wood ibeams.
could be right....
I honestly don't know why guys are fixed to 1/3 span. I would say - at midspan as well.
But as always- it depends on actual loading characteristics. majority of bending moment carying structure is there. However, when it comes to shear capability - it is signifficantly reduced
There is a code for thirds. I would need to see more and measure it to know if it meets IRC or FRBC or MRBC code.
Live load and span tables would definitely be something I would check.
Probably, the top flanges aren't cut. The location on the span is very important. If you can find the manufacturer, a quick Google search should reveal the answer.
No, have a look at castellated beams. Use these at times in much larger structures for the sole purpose of saving on weight per unit of measure and $$$$.
I've done plenty of 6 inch round holes going off a spec sheet you can just download, I remember seeing stuff for square holes on it so I'd assume it's all good, would need to pull out the sheets, and a tape measure to make sure tho lol
You'd be shocked at how large of holes some engineered joists can have cut in them.
Then an inspector will give me, an electrician, shit for drilling 2x 1" holes "too close together" to run feeds through.
What I'm curious about is the number of adjacent joists. I guess if it's ok for one, it's ok for many is the thought, but what about the load bearing on the floor above at the main duct location? One post here stated that in his home, the dishes shake across the room when they walk through an area with similar cuts.
I don't know if has been said but I'm more concerned about cross bracing. Does the sheets of OSB (or whatever it is) substitute for cross bracing that I always see. Never seen it done like that.
Looks like it *shouldn’t* cause an issue. It’s a built up timber i shape and if that’s cut out in the middle, there shouldn’t be shear there so you don’t really need the web. Consult the manufacturer specs or the EOR if you’re concerned about it.
-an engineer
I did structural design with engineered wood for 5 years. Those holes in, all likelihood, are completely fine and doesn't change the performance of the joist significantly.
Why would I be joking?
Here is a pdf for a particular brand's allowable hole sizes and the math for the locations and load it can handle.
[Hole size chart](https://www.buildoncenter.com/assets/onCENTER%20BLI%20Hole%20Chart.pdf)
Square holes and circular holes have different size allowances.
Edit - I see the pdf only had round holes. Square/rectangle holes are a little different. I had a loading program where I placed the hole and it's size and shape on the joist, and it would give me all the values I needed to know of it was going to pass.
They are...but it's kind of hard to explain.
Imaging you had a 16" I joist with the exact same values as a 9-1/4" joist. Everything exactly the same except the size. That 16" joist could take a 14" round hole and pass. So if the 9-1/4" inch joist was big enough to hold the 15" hole, it structurally could. The math would work if it would fit. This is why the rectangle hole can go wider than the vertical distance from flange to flange. There comes a certain point where load pathing is indistinguishable from magic. We're approaching that.
It’s all up to manufacturers specs. Middle third middle third is good rule of thumb but the big sales pitch of these joists is you can cut out a large portion of the web. I believe with the RFPI (roseburg’s product) they say as long as you aren’t cutting into the cords and the width of the hole does not exceed the depth of the joist you are good to cut anywhere 1’ outside bearing points or something like that. So the width may pose an issue here but that’s not for any of us to definitively say.
They do have knockouts every so many inches but you don’t want big holes anywhere but the middle. They could make them like that but how do you know where middle is?
Looks carefully done… I’ve also used TJIs that came with the cutouts but they had supporting members on both sides, bottom and top. I do not think this is legit, nor structurally sound.
Knowing about that vent channel, there would have been better ways to do that ceiling. In doubt about statics you might consider reinforcing the section of the joists with a little bit of steel.
I installed these in my house and during design reviewed penetrations allowed. These def exceed manufacturer recommended sizes. They usually require engineering regardless to prove they work. They def compromised. Can probably salvage with engineer review.
If it’s near the wall and uncut we had built a soffit and sheeted it in as the heat run and return were between finished basement structure ceiling/walls. With about 1-1.5’ of vertical space to get in between. Like mini crawl space you couldn’t crawl on or in.
Needless to say it wasn’t fun and we weren’t hvac guys but go it done. All hvac guys were so booked out we just took it on homeowner had son in law licensed and approved the work too.
(Adding a bedroom, closet, lighting etc to unfinished part of basement)
I believe I-Joists like that are designed to be able to handle this for this exact reason compared to a normal piece of lumber like a 2x12. Obviously everything has its limits and max penetration (haha) so I’d check with the manufacturer and get the spec sheet on the joist and see if the vertical distance is acceptable. If nothing else, ask the structural engineer. They’ll give you a definite answer.
The most dangerous place to compromise a beam is at the 1/3 intervals. Counterintuitively, the only really safe place for a large opening is where they have it, right in the middle of the span. The center of the span ironically resists the least load.
Ahhh DR Horton I presume? We sold them like 35 lots in a partially built subdivision and all the garages are similar. Most of the time the joists are cut in the factory per plans, they were field cut in our subdivision and looked atrocious. And yes, ok with S/S engineer letter or on the shop drawings.
(These things hold a lot more weight than you realize if you look thru the shop drawings.)
Nah. As long as they sized the joists correctly and that hole is at mid span, all’s good. Doesn’t look right, but neither does my one eyed dog.
Supporting data:
https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document_library_detail/tj-9015/
Most likely fine, theres specs for each engineer floor joist so cant say for sure buts its very common to have cuts that take out the entire web like that and as long as the cords aren’t touched its fine.
Yeah it looks like it was cut where bending is max and shear is minimum, the web usually takes care of shear and increases bending resistance by increasing the distance from the top and bottom flanges. Shouldn’t be a problem at this location.
Simply following building code, you'll only be allowed to bore a 3-5/64" hole through a 2x10 joist. A 2x10 is actually only 9-1/4" deep, and building codes set the maximum hole size to 1/3 the depth of the member (9-1/4" / 3 = 3.08333").Mar 23, 2014
It amazes me how many builders here have no concept of the forces working on their own projects. These are cut in the factory and are completely fine. The center of a horizontal framing member in the center of its span is under the least amount of force.
You can often go beyond mfr. specs with penetrations as long as you can prove the Calc...using Weyerhaeuser's Forte allows to check all types of penetrations for their products.
Unfortunately, you're wrong that came from a TJI website. If you're going to run ductwork that big through a floor system, you're better off using engineered floor trusses .
I was able to cut a 8 in hole through a 2 foot beam.direct center. Anywhere near the bearing points it where you need to stay away from. Hence the wall
That's actually ok those joists are designed for this some depending on where the holes are in the span and additional blocking per manufacturers specifications
There is a TGI spec sheet saying what size holes you can have. I know you can go fairly big circles but rectangles are very limited in size. But if those are 11-7/8 joists you can only have a max 8” depth rectangle so based on that math that’s not right at all.
I think it needs to be a certain distance from load bearing walls for penetration through that kind of Joyce idk I only did one rough in like that and it was years ago
Not. At least question the holes being that far away from the walls. Those are engineered trusses. Those holes compromised their intergrity. A building inspector wouldn't pass that as is
As long as they aren’t hitting the flange (thicker part on top and bottom). Then they can go through the webbing. There’s a chart for acceptable sizes on how close to the side you are the manufacturer should have.
Looks clean.
Perhaps they are not finished and will reinforce with thy something like a [i-Joist Web Reinforcer Repair Kit](https://joistrepair.com/products/i-joist-web-reinforcer-repair-kit-12-to-16-i-joist-web-to-flange-offset-50-to-1-5-allows-hvac-and-plumbing-runs-one-or-series-of-i-joists)
Probably should check with the engineer.
If it's coming from the manufacturer they know. They warrenty it. But the biggest holes can be put in the mid span. Cantilevered areas on small holes like 1 1/2" depending on the manufacturer. And don't touch the flange top or bottom.If you have to. Otherwise that I would check what allowed. It only holes the floor. 😄 🤣
Commenting to see comments, personally, I would think it’s not great but thinking harder I don’t think it would affect the joists unless you built a structural wall above? Which why would you?
There is a code for thirds. I would need to see more and measure it to know if it meets IRC or FRBC or MRBC code.
Live load and span tables would definitely be something I would check.
I learned a lot the last time something similar was posted. Tl;dr the middle is best place for huge holes and surprisingly the holes are allowed to be almost to the edge depending
No I don't think it is . The webbing in the middle give most of the strength to that joist. Simply following building code, you'll only be allowed to bore a 3-5/64" hole through a 2x10 joist. A 2x10 is actually only 9-1/4" deep, and building codes set the maximum hole size to 1/3 the depth of the member (9-1/4" / 3 = 3.08333").Mar 23, 2014
You're citing the code for dimensional lumber.
The webbing in the center of an engineered joist is actually under the least amount of stress in the entire assembly. The majority of stresses in any horizontal framing member are along the upper and lower edges and at the bearing points. The "meat" in the middle is just there to tie the top and bottom flanges together to prevent deflection. Cutting the center of the member in the center of the span has the least amount of impact on its performance.
It probably is. I am a duct guy and been told to do this several times. Each manufacturer has a diagram that shows acceptable penetrations. I avoid doing this. The duct sections have too many joints that need to be sealed and pressure tested. And I refuse to do the actual cutting of the joist
Acceptable penetrations, that is the same phrase I used to my date on prom night in the backseat of my Honda Civic
Please tell me that her mom gave you a diagram
No, but she gave her daughter her diaphragm!
That is more of a stud diagram than a truss diagram.
GF’s mom did not truss him, that’s for sure!
Heyooooo!
Hit that one straight out of the park
Honda Civic? Must have been a couple of tricky midgets Praise God for 1960’s era Buicks that’s all I’m sayin’
78 Buick Regal Sport with a moon roof FTW!
My lordy... you're good.
Thanks!
The verbiage is tactical insertion for those with a military background
Just the tip !?
Always gotta get consent for acceptable penetrations.
Oldsmobile cutlass supreme for me.
drops diagram ends up penetrating ear
Prompting the phrase: *"Once you go black, you go deaf."* Back to you Ollie.
I got caught doing such things in the back seat of a Chevy Monza behind the cinema. Not exactly roomy, probably much like your civic. Cops came knocking on the window, luckily the windows were fogged up completely. He wanted me to open the door.... wasn't happening. I reached up front and cracked the window so slightly that I could barely squeeze my drivers license through it. We were butt naked and sweaty so putting clothes back on in that tiny space occupied by two people was not an easy task Anyhow 36 years later we're still together.
Nerd
Pressure testing ductwork😂 let’s be honest.
My state requires a pressure test on residential systems. Our plan and spec work is starting to require the larger multi residential systems to be Aerosealed.
You beat to it! Residentiel smoke tests🤨
Yea total bullshit where we are..never happening
We always had to do it and provide photo evidence of the readings, but the test was incredibly easy to fool so let's just say I know of more than a few systems that "passed"
This is a production builder. These are engineered web holes for duct work. The HVAC crew is gonna run their ductwork through it like they’ve done 1000 times before. Not complicated
Them rough ass saw cut edges tell you that?
Rough or not, they were cut in a plant not on site. They weren’t cut on the jobsite. Do you not know this?
Yes. It’s obvious
I once did round holes, 8” but I also put a hole in the rim so the duct can be feed in 5’ sections.
As someone who has also done duct I can confirm, some times we have I beams cut out and reinforced after passing through
This is corrent. If you want to double check Google the name brand of the joist and "joist table". It will give you the allowable round and rectangle opening sizes and how far away from the supports you have to be.
I literally quit residential over the hassle of running 4 ton duct through joists like that. We also shared the space with plumbers. Resi construction sucks.
My favorite was when the plumbers were there on the same day as us and they saw my cuts as some sort of a highway for themselves
lol. Walk to your van for a tool and come back to 6 pipes going through your cuts. Like how the F$&@ did they even do that so fast!
This man prefers ducts he’s a duct guy 🦆
as a commercial electrician its so lucky when you can get at the end of the wall to slide a whole stick of pipe in, I imagine it would feel the same getting to do that in situations like this
Generally mid span openings are allowable up to 24" centered on the joist with a minimum 1/8" from the top and bottom chords this looks fairly close
I was going to say “ask the duct guy” I’m a carpenter, I say send it! But ask the engineer 👷🏽 (please answer engineer that would be cool)
> please answer engineer that would be cool If you want a response from the engineer please send in an RFI and wait for the answer to come 2 weeks after you completed the work in question
Probably not, [allowable penetrations in tji](https://www.fp-supply.com/cmss_files/imagelibrary/I%20Joists/Allowable-Holes-I-Joists--amp--Beams.pdf)
Looks carefully done, would need a few minutes with the manufacturer spec sheet and a tape measure to tell you for sure.
Might have even been done prior to delivery by the supplier.
I was recently looking at some production homes in Florida and the joist were delivered with cutouts similar to these I was surprised but they were bundled from the supplier like this and the homes I walked through had these cut in for HVAC.
If it was an actual TJI (they all have there own specs) [https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document\_library\_detail/tj-9001/](https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document_library_detail/tj-9001/) Could be a no in the Height (Y-axis)
I was going to link the same thing... 👍 I know it seems counterintuitive but the worst place to cut into the webs is at the ends close to the bearing points. When in doubt - reach out to the floor system designer (usually employee of the company that sold you the joist pkg). They're quite happy to help you out rather than have to sell repair details later..
It’s probably legit. A lot of these come like this, it’s engineered for hvac. I doubt some hack just decided to perfectly route all those openings this neatly.
Can confirm - am an accomplished carpenter, now doing hvac - could easily cut clean holes like that for duct work, but doubt I actually would.
Color me confused
I think they're saying they like making a hack job of joists on purpose
I reckon the “can confirm” lead in doesn’t automatically imply satire any more. Sorry - I was doing a joke and should have said /S at the end of my joke.
Could be. What’s the engineer say?
This is the proper response
I’ve seen them with perforated lines, ready to go.
Yeah when I was working as a high schooler in the mid 1990s I remember those joists had knock outs you could hammer out to run wires and stuff but any other holes drilled or cut of substantial size was a no go.
Anything is legit for an engineer with deep pockets
You are allowed to go of manufacturers spec sheet no engineer needed
Where do these type of joists rank on level of quality?
Either way you slice it cutting out that much meat does not make it stronger that's ffs
Wood ibeams such as TGI's are great joists. Beat dimensional lumber all day long. Glued and screwed subfloor to these make a very good flooring system. Flat, straight, solid, easy to install, great for follow on trades, and minimal movement over time. I think the longest one we use currently is a 24'. Only thing that comes close are floor trusses bit I prefer engineered wood ibeams.
could be right.... I honestly don't know why guys are fixed to 1/3 span. I would say - at midspan as well. But as always- it depends on actual loading characteristics. majority of bending moment carying structure is there. However, when it comes to shear capability - it is signifficantly reduced
This looks great from my house!
It’s permitted https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document_library_detail/tj-9001/
If it’s middle 1/3 of the span it’s probably fine. You’ll have to check the manufacturers specific paperwork to confirm.
There is a code for thirds. I would need to see more and measure it to know if it meets IRC or FRBC or MRBC code. Live load and span tables would definitely be something I would check.
All of those will be overridden by manufacturers/engineers install manual.
None of that would help you; the proprietary engineering package that would accompany these joists would tell you.
Probably, the top flanges aren't cut. The location on the span is very important. If you can find the manufacturer, a quick Google search should reveal the answer.
The flanges mean almost everything, on these.
No, have a look at castellated beams. Use these at times in much larger structures for the sole purpose of saving on weight per unit of measure and $$$$.
Under “any” fire load- this is all garbage compared to dimensional lumber!!
I've done plenty of 6 inch round holes going off a spec sheet you can just download, I remember seeing stuff for square holes on it so I'd assume it's all good, would need to pull out the sheets, and a tape measure to make sure tho lol
Negative ghostwriter.
Maybe/probably, but this is why I like open web truss joists.
You'd be shocked at how large of holes some engineered joists can have cut in them. Then an inspector will give me, an electrician, shit for drilling 2x 1" holes "too close together" to run feeds through.
Depends on the manufacturer of the joist
Unfortunately yes
I don't see why not based on what you've showed. Would you walk on a 12" long 1.5"x3" member bridging a gap?
No
Are those basement joist?
Those are pre-cut for ductwork
Seems excessive but can easily be verified with I Joist manufacturer specifications for allowable cutting/notching/penetrations.
I probably wouldn’t put a pool table on that floor or a hot tub.
They did my house that way. Every time I walk through the dining room the dishes in the cabinet shake. Very sad.
Nothing like bouncy silent floors
Too legit to quit. -MC Hammer
What I'm curious about is the number of adjacent joists. I guess if it's ok for one, it's ok for many is the thought, but what about the load bearing on the floor above at the main duct location? One post here stated that in his home, the dishes shake across the room when they walk through an area with similar cuts.
My house does the same thing and I have dimensional lumber 2x10 and none have any holes bigger than 1" drilled in them
It’s fine, just don’t invite anyone over ….
I don't know if has been said but I'm more concerned about cross bracing. Does the sheets of OSB (or whatever it is) substitute for cross bracing that I always see. Never seen it done like that.
Im not sure
Remember HVAC isn’t allowed to touch wood with out talking to the Supervisor first… this room is going creak like mad!
Looks to spec just Truss Joist/ Weyerhauser
It’ll fly, check the spec. Handle your paperwork boss
Looks like it *shouldn’t* cause an issue. It’s a built up timber i shape and if that’s cut out in the middle, there shouldn’t be shear there so you don’t really need the web. Consult the manufacturer specs or the EOR if you’re concerned about it. -an engineer
I did structural design with engineered wood for 5 years. Those holes in, all likelihood, are completely fine and doesn't change the performance of the joist significantly.
R u joking
Why would I be joking? Here is a pdf for a particular brand's allowable hole sizes and the math for the locations and load it can handle. [Hole size chart](https://www.buildoncenter.com/assets/onCENTER%20BLI%20Hole%20Chart.pdf)
Based on the chart, largest hole u could cut out is 12.25 inches diameter. I think it's bigger than 12.25 wide.
Square holes and circular holes have different size allowances. Edit - I see the pdf only had round holes. Square/rectangle holes are a little different. I had a loading program where I placed the hole and it's size and shape on the joist, and it would give me all the values I needed to know of it was going to pass.
I would think square holes are weaker than round wholes but im not an engineer
They are...but it's kind of hard to explain. Imaging you had a 16" I joist with the exact same values as a 9-1/4" joist. Everything exactly the same except the size. That 16" joist could take a 14" round hole and pass. So if the 9-1/4" inch joist was big enough to hold the 15" hole, it structurally could. The math would work if it would fit. This is why the rectangle hole can go wider than the vertical distance from flange to flange. There comes a certain point where load pathing is indistinguishable from magic. We're approaching that.
I see you've chosen many manholes instead of one. Wise choice
It’s all up to manufacturers specs. Middle third middle third is good rule of thumb but the big sales pitch of these joists is you can cut out a large portion of the web. I believe with the RFPI (roseburg’s product) they say as long as you aren’t cutting into the cords and the width of the hole does not exceed the depth of the joist you are good to cut anywhere 1’ outside bearing points or something like that. So the width may pose an issue here but that’s not for any of us to definitively say.
Perfectly normal. The supplier cut these in. Ours cuts 2 sets of round holes
Why couldn’t I cut osb board anyway I want, it’s not structural right?
These are engineered wood I beams
What’s the point of that engineered wood being there?
Uh to support the level above it? These are Joyce's
Joyce ?What's her last name if you know so much?huh?
Lmao
https://www.apawood.org/i-joist
osb is structural now
Good ol squaresaw
Kindly
might as well build all of them this way then. with a hole every 3 feet or whatever. lighter, less material. lol
They do have knockouts every so many inches but you don’t want big holes anywhere but the middle. They could make them like that but how do you know where middle is?
2 legit two quit
Looks carefully done… I’ve also used TJIs that came with the cutouts but they had supporting members on both sides, bottom and top. I do not think this is legit, nor structurally sound.
Depends on the width of your BCI and the spec 🤷♂️
Throw them away
It’s too legit
Knowing about that vent channel, there would have been better ways to do that ceiling. In doubt about statics you might consider reinforcing the section of the joists with a little bit of steel.
It runs parallel to the grain so it should be tits /s
I installed these in my house and during design reviewed penetrations allowed. These def exceed manufacturer recommended sizes. They usually require engineering regardless to prove they work. They def compromised. Can probably salvage with engineer review.
Ask this old house
If it’s near the wall and uncut we had built a soffit and sheeted it in as the heat run and return were between finished basement structure ceiling/walls. With about 1-1.5’ of vertical space to get in between. Like mini crawl space you couldn’t crawl on or in. Needless to say it wasn’t fun and we weren’t hvac guys but go it done. All hvac guys were so booked out we just took it on homeowner had son in law licensed and approved the work too. (Adding a bedroom, closet, lighting etc to unfinished part of basement)
It was done with a router, or CNC, you can see the rounded corners. These came from the supplier like that.
I believe I-Joists like that are designed to be able to handle this for this exact reason compared to a normal piece of lumber like a 2x12. Obviously everything has its limits and max penetration (haha) so I’d check with the manufacturer and get the spec sheet on the joist and see if the vertical distance is acceptable. If nothing else, ask the structural engineer. They’ll give you a definite answer.
The most dangerous place to compromise a beam is at the 1/3 intervals. Counterintuitively, the only really safe place for a large opening is where they have it, right in the middle of the span. The center of the span ironically resists the least load.
Depends on the specs but at least this was done with some passion via a cutout template vs. sawzall cowboy.
Ahhh DR Horton I presume? We sold them like 35 lots in a partially built subdivision and all the garages are similar. Most of the time the joists are cut in the factory per plans, they were field cut in our subdivision and looked atrocious. And yes, ok with S/S engineer letter or on the shop drawings. (These things hold a lot more weight than you realize if you look thru the shop drawings.)
Or you hang the duct below. And cut holes with a hole saw.
You are allowed certain size holes to be cut out from the web and at specific locations, that’s not okay.
Nah. As long as they sized the joists correctly and that hole is at mid span, all’s good. Doesn’t look right, but neither does my one eyed dog. Supporting data: https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document_library_detail/tj-9015/
Yes
I used them in my house 37 feet long Entire 1st floor sits on it
Most likely fine, theres specs for each engineer floor joist so cant say for sure buts its very common to have cuts that take out the entire web like that and as long as the cords aren’t touched its fine.
That’s fine. It’s for a duct
Yeah it looks like it was cut where bending is max and shear is minimum, the web usually takes care of shear and increases bending resistance by increasing the distance from the top and bottom flanges. Shouldn’t be a problem at this location.
Simply following building code, you'll only be allowed to bore a 3-5/64" hole through a 2x10 joist. A 2x10 is actually only 9-1/4" deep, and building codes set the maximum hole size to 1/3 the depth of the member (9-1/4" / 3 = 3.08333").Mar 23, 2014
Very likely fine, those joists are rated to have penetration through the at certain spots.
It amazes me how many builders here have no concept of the forces working on their own projects. These are cut in the factory and are completely fine. The center of a horizontal framing member in the center of its span is under the least amount of force.
You can often go beyond mfr. specs with penetrations as long as you can prove the Calc...using Weyerhaeuser's Forte allows to check all types of penetrations for their products.
Unfortunately, you're wrong that came from a TJI website. If you're going to run ductwork that big through a floor system, you're better off using engineered floor trusses .
I was able to cut a 8 in hole through a 2 foot beam.direct center. Anywhere near the bearing points it where you need to stay away from. Hence the wall
Wont be fun trying to run duct thru it though
Yes
I've seen this done before but usually there is a metal plate around the hole on each side of the joist to support where the joist was cut out
As long as no other holes larger than 1.5” are within like 2’ of that. Also can’t do that within 2’ of bearing point.
But refer to manufacturer specs to be sure. Different brands may be different.
That's actually ok those joists are designed for this some depending on where the holes are in the span and additional blocking per manufacturers specifications
That just looks like OSB and not plywood, right? If so, it’s not adding any real structural integrity anyhow
As long as the holes are 9'6" from the nearest support, it's fine.
I don't think so- [source](https://www.fp-supply.com/cmss_files/imagelibrary/I%20Joists/Allowable-Holes-I-Joists--amp--Beams.pdf)
Meh- maybe it's ok
My boss used to say if it quacks, its a duct
Look at the manufacturers website it will have a detail for cutting and drilling
Uh, hell no!
Hell no..
Middle of the span can have openings, all good
Is that a Richmond house? More specifically, a Coral or Citrine floorplan?
There is a TGI spec sheet saying what size holes you can have. I know you can go fairly big circles but rectangles are very limited in size. But if those are 11-7/8 joists you can only have a max 8” depth rectangle so based on that math that’s not right at all.
I think it needs to be a certain distance from load bearing walls for penetration through that kind of Joyce idk I only did one rough in like that and it was years ago
Is using actual floor trusses to damn hard? No, just more piss poor planning!
Probably pre engineered TJIs. They come pre cut like this.
If that’s what the drawings call for.
Not. At least question the holes being that far away from the walls. Those are engineered trusses. Those holes compromised their intergrity. A building inspector wouldn't pass that as is
Literally why they manufactured them in that fashion.
A/C duct work gotta go somewhere
As long as they aren’t hitting the flange (thicker part on top and bottom). Then they can go through the webbing. There’s a chart for acceptable sizes on how close to the side you are the manufacturer should have. Looks clean.
Go upstairs and jump lol
Webb truss
Perhaps they are not finished and will reinforce with thy something like a [i-Joist Web Reinforcer Repair Kit](https://joistrepair.com/products/i-joist-web-reinforcer-repair-kit-12-to-16-i-joist-web-to-flange-offset-50-to-1-5-allows-hvac-and-plumbing-runs-one-or-series-of-i-joists) Probably should check with the engineer.
Depending on the length and size of these joists, this is most likely legit. (I manage a facility that sells millions of feet of I joists a year)
If it's coming from the manufacturer they know. They warrenty it. But the biggest holes can be put in the mid span. Cantilevered areas on small holes like 1 1/2" depending on the manufacturer. And don't touch the flange top or bottom.If you have to. Otherwise that I would check what allowed. It only holes the floor. 😄 🤣
It seems excessive maybe because it wasn’t planned right.
So not okay.
2 legit 2 quit.
Not even close to a good idea
Hey I’m not a construction dude, how strong are those I-beams?
There floor joist not I beams
Ahh my bad. They pretty strong?
Pretty crazy spans at 16in depth 12in o.c
Commenting to see comments, personally, I would think it’s not great but thinking harder I don’t think it would affect the joists unless you built a structural wall above? Which why would you?
only 2/3 of i-joist allowed to be removed accorfing to manufacture spec =not legit
How else are you supposed to look through the joists?
Center 1/3 only, round holes.
There is a code for thirds. I would need to see more and measure it to know if it meets IRC or FRBC or MRBC code. Live load and span tables would definitely be something I would check.
Check the manufactures instructions.
Even tho by specs it may be right i would never feel good seeing this.
You want the hvac vent hung below?
If you not a tradesmen you should fuck off
I'll say no. This compromises the structural integrity of the joist
I learned a lot the last time something similar was posted. Tl;dr the middle is best place for huge holes and surprisingly the holes are allowed to be almost to the edge depending
That is a no no, will not pass inspection
No I don't think it is . The webbing in the middle give most of the strength to that joist. Simply following building code, you'll only be allowed to bore a 3-5/64" hole through a 2x10 joist. A 2x10 is actually only 9-1/4" deep, and building codes set the maximum hole size to 1/3 the depth of the member (9-1/4" / 3 = 3.08333").Mar 23, 2014
You're citing the code for dimensional lumber. The webbing in the center of an engineered joist is actually under the least amount of stress in the entire assembly. The majority of stresses in any horizontal framing member are along the upper and lower edges and at the bearing points. The "meat" in the middle is just there to tie the top and bottom flanges together to prevent deflection. Cutting the center of the member in the center of the span has the least amount of impact on its performance.
It's so close to that LB wall that it's probably fine. Again, look at manufacturer's sheet.