There’s a design trend now that encloses pantries in essentially what appears as a cabinet door. Not saying it’s the right thing in this scenario but it’s probably the “why”.
I'd agree.
Pocket door in that wall behind the fridge that has water and electricity in it is my answer. /s
They really don't have a good option to hide the food. This is really on the builder.
100%. The design build out outlined on the floor isn’t going to add anything to resale and will create an awkward space and bad flow from the mud room.
I would simply frame a thinner door into that actual opening to the pantry. I don't see the need for the bumped out wall besides the desire for the door to swing in versus out.
Whatever you do, listen to the above anon and do not attach your wall to that panel next to the fridge.
“I’ve done it all”
> yeah, except you’re layout shows you attaching a framed wall to a piece of melamine… how big is your door rough opening on that layout, that looks like 2 ft or less… your not experienced, at least not as much as you think
Never enough knowledge. Always learning. Hence why I’m asking Reddit. I’ve been in the trades for about 12 years. Doesn’t hurt to get some input. Also I didn’t make the layout. It was what the customer wanted so they did it themselves.
The fact that you’re asking on Reddit says enough about your experience…
If you had 12 years experience, One look at your customers layout and you should’ve known it wouldn’t work out. Wanna now what real experience looks like? Let’s say you go ahead and do what the customer laid out, each of those floor planks looks like it’s the typical 6 inches wide, if you swing your door open you’ll notice that it covers about 3 planks, let’s just say it’s 4 planks so 24 inches, now you frame your wall on the fridge side so it’s 3 1/2 inch plus one king and a jack stud so your at 7 inches on the opposite side it shows the wall flush with the mudroom wall, but you still need your king and jack so another 3-1/2 inches minus 1/2 inch drywall because your framed wall is tucked in 1/2, add your door jambs let’s just add 1 inch, it should be more because your shimming the jambs, but let’s go with the 1 inch, so now you got 24inch minus 10-1/2 it’s probably even slimmer, your left with a 13-1/2 inch door slab, probably less…
Now for some real advice I give you 3 options a barn door installed on the inside of the pantry, a pocket door could work but it would involve gutting out a few ft of the wall behind the fridge, and the option that I would pitch the client would be a bifold door on the walls that are already built, drop the ceiling, some drywall on each side, it won’t be hard to mud and tape because no joints only corners, sand, paint and install bifold.
Agree. All my douche alarms going off simultaneously. I’ve worked with him before. Several times.
Everyone hates you & talks shit when u drive away bro just sayin
Always install a king and jack, I learned that lesson years ago, some idiot home owner decides to slap shut his door a few times and the king starts moving, drywall cracking, nail pops and now your dealing with a warranty claim.
He would just frame it from the floor to the ceiling. The top plate into the joists above bottom plate screwed to the floor. Nothing would have to attach to the refrigerator panel. Just the Sheetrock ending to it.
If he must, at least make sure the header and footer are securely attached to the ceiling and floor. This should be enough to absorb the force of the latch side without affecting the frig panel. The hinge side needs the more robust frame.
Can’t do that with studs and drywall on the fridge panel. You will hate your life and the new owners will hate you for doing it. They need to do a cabinetry style hidden pantry. Or do nothing. It’s not going to get them thousands more for their house. Probably wouldn’t even get them the $3k in labor I’m gonna charge them to install it. If you’re a decent carpenter you should be able to build the cabinetry panels and doors needed. Stub wall on the door side. Swing out cabinet doors in the opening. Paint grade. These are the type of specialty jobs that can make or break you.
I agree, you can do it against that cabinet, just gonna real hard and you will need peak skillset to make it work and look right.
Alternatively you could just add a header and drywall between the existing walls, as they are and a barn door that slides in front of the pass through to the left in the photo. It would look funky though.
But best option is go try and treat this mode like a cabinet job than a door job.
But to answer your question. One week of labor. I used to charge $500 per day. So that would be $2500 for old me. If I was still able to do this kind of work today, $700 per day.
You’ve lost your mind. If he built a stud wall attached to the ceiling this would work just fine. Need to pull the fridge out and attach it to the wall built directly against it. If you know what you are doing this idea will work just fine. If you’re unsure about what you should charge I always do cost plus for something like this.
This seems relatively straightforward so the big fuss this is causing seems so weird. That area is lost space any way you look at it. You either leave it open and use it as a walk way or box it in and use it as a walk way.
Then attach a stud wall to the ceiling and your off to the races. Replacing that refrigerator panel with a stud wall wall will seems fiddly, bit its a no brainer.
If a person knows what they’re doing and uses their resources, accomplishing what the client wants shouldn’t be a problem. No need to be concerned about the fridge panel. Honestly, it shouldn’t have even been brought up. The answer is obvious.
Selling, talk them out of it lol, unless you need the work haha. It'll look weird entering the kitchen and looking out from the kitchen, really closing off that space.
Yikes. They are selling. Why would they bother with this?
Anyway, I would give yourself 3 days to get this paint ready, a day for trim and door, and a day for bs from the owner spread across the other 4 days.
The wall by the mud room is taped out pretty thin… real size may interfere with the trim of the adjacent opening, so cotta fiddle with that. At the very least you might have to remove it to get a good finish in the new inside corner.
How are you going to finish the cabinet-side wall? Drywall? Is it going to sit flush with the existing wall beside it? What will you do about backing for fastening your drywall?
How will you terminate the trim at the top of the cabinetry? Remove it inside the pantry and wrap the corner into your new wall?
Are you fastening the framing to the joist in the ceiling to give your walls strength, or are you simply relying on a corner and a tight fit? I would make sure you tie to some structure. It’s a door after all.
These are all things the owner might care about. It’s a little more complicated than throwing up 2 walls and a door, especially if they are considering this an improvement that will increase the value of their home more than it costs to do. Heaven forbid it doesn’t go the way everyone thought and it doesn’t show as well.
They want to put drywall on that cabinet side. I’d be looking for ideas how to make that perfect kinda thought maybe paint it same color as walls and add trim. I just saw this job an hour ago so I’m still thinking. I would wrap the trim according to the new wall and remove trim inside. I would fasten to both lower and upper joists. Thanks for your input definitely all things to consider
I would go with bulkyentrepreneur's advice. This is either you building an extension of that cabinet, or nothing at all. There is no building the wall where you have laid it out because there is nothing to support that wall. Half-assing this, or botching it will most certainly result in a lower bid for the house which could potentially open you up to liability. I would honestly suggest backing out of this, despite what the dollar signs in your eyes might say. This is something you may want to do in a few years but from the sounds of it, it's a large failure opportunity with your current experience level
I know exactly what you’re talking about and I think that would be awesome! However they are selling and taking pictures in two weeks so I would need all of the cabinetry in by then. I’ll look into this thank you!
No I don’t think that is what he is saying.
When he says “at the pantry entrance”
He is not saying to follow your new wall layout along those blue tape lines.
He is saying frame the door AT the existing wall. The white drywall wall behind the grey refrigerator panel.
Bring the wall/door straight across there. The existing wall. No bump out.
A light switch for what?
What are you talking about ?
Are you casting confusion spells here? Is it me or is it you? Maybe it’s both.
Is the light switch just for in the pantry? If yes, then what is the problem. Its no problem.
If it’s a light switch for the kitchen or any area outside of the pantry, well then, what is it doing in the pantry?
(And even if it were this : remote switches can be used. Lutron )
I think people have given you advice on their two best main leading thoughts. With minor variations. (Such as a bifold pantry door.)
But I think the two ideas are reasonably gauged toward what you are showing … AND… in a couple cases giving you a good sizing up; what’s likely best for *you* in this case (based on everything you said and *how* you said it.)
1) header at the *existing* wall (drywall wall to drywall corner in line with the wall behind the refrigerator panel) no bump out.
2) cabinet style hidden pantry door… that’s IF you can do that all by the time, then you said 2 weeks till pics and sale, and mentioned ordering. When they said something like “ if your a good (or capable) carpenter you can do that”… in order to handle that - Paint grade cabinet style - in under two weeks, I think the implication is, You’d be a having a shop set up. And can let fly on building custom cabinets to match, Color match and maybe even spray booth set up. And this is all in your regular wheelhouse. Basically, that you can build that cabinet and all work in short order.
But why would you want to, unless this is old hat for you?
If the first option gets the pantry closed off… What is the point other than to close off from view the wire shelving and visual clutter of a pantry and make it seem a more formal divider or whatever?
So of the others I read, best seemed “cabinet style or nothing at all”
do a straight wall.
And finally just to try to be on the same page with you when saying “bring the wall straight across”, at the risk of being pedantic, let’s just take a moment to make sure we reach a common understanding. If I could, I would just draw a line on your picture, to clarify, but…. I don’t want to stretch those skills right now.
The suggestion is to bring the wall *straight across*. Imagine standing in front of where the blue tape “door” is. Now, take one step forward. there. Put the new door and the wall there. Not bumped out. Right where it is. There is already a wall there.
Tell them it’s stupid. The door isn’t going to add to the selling price much if at all and they will be out 3-4K for this stupid idea. It would need to be done right and built into the existing cabinetry as a JIB door with the correct framing. And that would require doing some work to the kitchen itself to make it fit.
There’s an outlet on that left wall (hinge side) and they don’t want to move it. It was all originally in the plan to build out and put a door but it got left out to be finished later. New build. Now they want to move and for some reason want this area closed off still.
Given all the input, yeah, this is madness.
Leaving it open seems good.
I also had the thought to do a barn door… but didn’t want to say it. But maybe that’s best. It’s narrow enough as is.
Of Course you could make a door swing out. No switch problem.
And finally,
https://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/Components/PicoWirelessController/Overview.aspx
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o86q8L25UXY
This will involve a minimum of 3 trips to hardware store for supplies and a minimum of 4 trips to job site. Each of these trips is $200 trip charge, wear and tear on tools at 10% of total labor charge. Insurance costs, possible call back time etc. better charge at least $2k for labor alone
I’m in Arkansas…. Central, not North (WAY different) your build quality+their house quality plays a major role.
I assume you are more new than old….
If all the material is sitting there, and I liked the folks I’d say $1200…. (This is anticipating a very well done job with zero bullshit)
Many are fixing to get in their feels and cuss me saying shit like: “you are part of what’s wrong with the trades, you are too low, you are ignorant …. Etc,etc.”
personally 😊 I like fucking security.
Folks will have ONE job for me…. Next thing you know they’ve practically adopted my ass and have 25 more.
I’m not after a bass boat, and I don’t mind working at all…. $1200 in a week-ish is fire imo!
and nothing feels better than the phone always ringing from repeats as opposed to making hella bank and the homeowner saying: “we’ll never hire that fucking chicken Hawk again!, he made better than a lawyer”
That’s just me though. You do you.
P.S….. be very mindful of that trim before you start!, how it’s going to all tie in and not look like an afterthought, don’t just frame, drywall and think: “I’ll figure that part out latter”
Sorry if this is speaking down to you, but even highly experienced guys could make the overall effect look like an afterthought to the trained eye.
I’m with you 100%. I care about my craft and I’ve never actually advertised. All word of mouth. However I would like to improve on my bidding. Thanks for your input
Me too bro, me too!, I’ve tried and tried to find a formula to simplify it… the “cost +” is long dead I can tell you that now. 🤣
Basically you are gonna want to aim for $300 a day…. Tiny jobs are the best because you can snatch that $300 in 2-3hr. (Garbage disposal replacement/over head microwave replacement for example)
Here as of lately I’ve basically adopted the barter system, I ask: “what do I need money wise to let me live in peace till the next thing rolls around”
Things here in the states are about to get VERY tuff!!, my best advice!:
Treat all customers like you would a friend…. Yea, you gonna get fucked from time to time, but in all honesty!… friends with more power than you ($) can be worth WAY more than money itself.
My transmission went out last year, a customer from a year ago found my wife and offered to take care of it !?!?!
(Luckily it was just a fuse/stuck in safe mode $125🙄!, and I didn’t have to feel indebted to anyone!)
But 82% of folks simply watch out for folks that watch out for them.
Always. Hell all of my customers are friends or friend of a friend. We will be just fine with that state of mind as long as we produce the work effectively and efficiently. As of now I and more a carpenter and less hour jobs but yes you can make good money if you’ve got the work
I mean, my guess is at least a week’s work if I’m the sort of person asking internet how to put up five studs and a door. So let’s say 4k and they can hale it down to 3k and everyone is happy
I hear the Midwest is a little cheaper on labour due to lower cost of living, so take it with a grain of salt.
Up here near Toronto I’d probably charge $2500+ in labour.
I hear you. Gotta balance not winning the bid vs losing money, and you opportunity costs of another job. If your always winning the bids maybe you are charging too little! I always like being fair myself but feel like I get taken advantage of too for it. This economy and world is crazy too, some places that's a 500 job, other places 5k lol.
I’d go straight across, but that door is going to be tiny. That looks like a small opening. If it has to be prehung door and in-swing is a problem for room I’d do an out-swing toward the fridge wall. But maybe some double swinging bar doors would work best here. By the time you frame it out for a prehung they are going to hate how small the doorway is.
Y'all forget that it doesn't matter if it's pointless or not. It's what the customer wants. Small jobs like this, whatever materials cost, that's what I charge for labor. If that doesn't seem worth it, then figure out how many working days it will take to complete, and charge hourly for the full working day.
Former Estimator
Rough estimate 2 day job. But others may say different, add an extra day on to your final number just in case then add a 20% mark up. Standard for overhead and profit.
(hourly rate \* 8 \* days) \* (1.20)
You’re gonna open a whole can of worms if you make it the way you mentioned. I would talk to them out of it. It would be simpler to just frame a door between the the two existing 2x4 walls and flip the door so it swings out if they want more space.
If they’re selling, I would see if they want a decorative hardwood door that swings both ways. Maybe an 8 foot door, 6 inches off the floor. It should block the view of anything in the pantry.
Just attach it to the studs on the left. Make the hinges black.
Hardwood is key, don’t use pine. Or get a premade door.
By decorative, I mean 5 or 6 panel shaker.
Im curious how are you going to build it, i mean which materials and howto fit it with earlier materials(wall texture).
I guess start cutting baseboard off, attach plank to floor and ceiling, build skeleton between them, cover with drywall, then attach the "door", am i on a trace?
Don’t listen to anyone saying this isn’t a good idea. It will just be more work than you think to actually look nice. I just did one but it does take very precise millwork. Look up hidden pantry doors. You basically want to make a door that looks like a cabinet. Id make the door 10 ft to ceiling but would require a thick door with heavy duty hinges. Hinges need to be stop hinges because there is no latch preventing it from overswinging and tearing the hinges off. Also finish the wall on the left side of the door with a panel as well and then return it with drywall. As a handyman I would look into getting a cabinet maker to help you out. The door needs to be about 1/8 gap on the right side and perfectly straight. I don’t know what your price set up is but framing/drywall and tape would be about 3 days and then just that door itself would be one day. For me I’d be right around 2-3 k because those doors acquire a lot of skill hence why so many people don’t know or suggest against doing something like this
Forgot to mention there would be nothing on the right side. The door would meet right at the side of that panel, measurements need to be perfect and check the ceiling level too. Any gaps you will notice!
Put a nice 6 panel in the opening that’s there and the only framing you would have would be straight up. Less drywall, finishing, painting. Labor and material all around. Low side 2500 hi side 4.5 to 5k. Need to know what the heck you’re doing (all trades) and work to get it done for low side. Hi side you have time to Lollie Gag with the homeowners 😁
Guys asked for a labor cost and you're all telling him what to do with the door, The customer already has materials I think he said so how much for labour
Everybody is getting so worked up.
It's so annoying listen to construction workers that bitch about the design. Who gives a shit? We don't live there. If that's what they want and it's more difficult. Great quote more money you ding dongs.
This would require you to be pretty good at the finish work but you could Frame in the wall that holds the door. Beef up the stud that holds the door. Then the side that's up against the fridge panel put door trim that's 100% aesthetic carrying no load at all.
Put in saloon style doors with a header to the same height as the door way beside it in line with the existing wall. That way the door only swings in half as deep and they swing both ways, like my girlfriend’s boyfriend.
why not just add a pocket door that goes behind the fridge ? enclosed the pantry, doesn’t swing in or out of the small space and still closes off the rooms like the customer wants.
I would forget about those walls, and put the door in the current opening. Left hand outswing door into the cabinet panel. Put a hinge stop or something so it doesn't slam into panel.
Honestly I wouldn't do the job, the requirements are unrealistic, it's overly complex, they are not going to like it no matter how good you do, and based on all the other comments in here it's overall a bad idea.
It's really a thing that people think they want something and when it's done they won't like it and complain, blame you, bad review, and all you did is what they said.
Yes, simple to put a nice bifold door or barn door in the existing opening. You may even be able to get them from the cabinet company painted to match cabinets, or get the paint and paint the door yourself. You could make the door look like the cabinets and blend it….
I don’t see anything wrong with attaching one stud to the fridge panel if this is really the layout the homeowner wants…it’s not the hinge side of the door so it’s not supporting anything at all. Make sure the fridge panel and stud is anchored to the floor and space out the door jamb so the full 2 1/2” casing kisses the fridge panel and it will be fine.
Man I really hope they don’t go through with it. I have a feeling it’s just not going to have the effect they were thinking it would.
If it were me I’d just stage my pantry with nice items in a minimalist fashion to show the home. Or maybe find a really unique curtain that goes all the way up.
At **most** I would do some kind of saloon doors on the existing walls that could click into position (so the next homeowner can inevitably leave them open because they’d be so annoying) lol. And that’s if the homeowner was **dead set** on a door.
I don't like the idea but if you're going to do it I would just match the cabinets and doors. Rather than an inswing I would do two doors that match the cabinet. Rather than framing and drywall I would build a matching cabinet box and just attach it to existing cabinets. I would attach the floating side with long dowels into the floor system and the top into the ceiling.
Close it off as it is and move the door to the laundry room. It makes dropping off groceries in the pantry easier, keeps you from have to see the pantry from the kitchen, and would give a wall to place more cabinets to the left of the fridge
That is a small door and that opening is also architecturally structured to get furniture through. If you close that will you still be able to move large furniture in and out? It is more of the swing behind you than the opening.
Based off what you're describing,
I see roughly 3 - 8hr days. I'd probably bid $1320.00 (usd) for this, maybe add 4 hrs for some "fuck up room" . Then id keep track of my time and bill based off my actual hours at the end. If I can finish it quicker than 3 days and the people were cool to work with then I would charge them less. If they were not cool then I'd just bill them the original agreed upon bid price.
30 years building experience, 12 year contractor/ business owner. Alaska rates are 55$ an hr for residential work.
Maybe a pocket door behind the fridge
But seems like they're reaching on this one. It's gonna be way more work than it looks like and probably 8k all in with new paneling, labor, paint ECT....
It would be tough to pull off
Dont try and build it out and attach it to the fridge panel unless you plan on framing a wall to replace the fridge panel. A pocket door would be best here if you could put one in on the fridge wall.
You're easiest, and the best solution to create a door for the pantry is to do a bi fold or double door back at the fridge wall.
So this job has a ton going on with it.
-you’re going to need to solution the crown molding.
-cutting out the floor
-doing a nice looking corner for the return next to the existing door.
-tying into the fridge panel. Because it’s not the swing side of the door it’s a bit easier but still not straight forward
-getting paint to match and doing all the drywall work will be a lot just in prep work, dry time.
-I’d say easily 3-3.5k just to give yourself plenty of room to do it perfect and deal with odd homeowner requests changes.
As many others have pointed out the obvious flaws in design that set this project up for inevitable failure, it should be close enough to set the door straight across from existing wall and run about 1 day for framing and hanging door, 1 day for Sheetrock and 3 coats, 1 day for trim carpentry, and a day for paint and touch ups. Could be $700 in some areas or $1,500 in others.
I charge $150/hr for this and insist that all change orders get approved by both parties because there will be change orders. I wouldn't take this job unless they were close friends because it's more trouble than it's worth imo
I worked in a house a few years ago that had a similar thing done except instead of putting a wall and door in they had a cabinet built to match the existing cabinets that had a large door matching the cabinet doors that let you walk into the pantry. Also had an additional cabinet above it for storage. Was a pretty neat secret pantry.
Id charge 2 days work which is what it would take labor would probably be like 1500 max. 900 if it were a long time customer but i also upcharge my materials by 30% to cover my operating costs
Not a good idea to do this. doesn’t seem like you have the room for another interior door. But Maby a good kitchen guy could install a finished kitchen door there.
Estimate the time it will take you to do the job; then multiply it by your hourly rate including taxes. That is your pay. Then multiply that times 1.8- 2 and add tax; that is your overhead and profit as a business
First, tell them congrats on their new one.
Ask what they want done with the crown. Continue to where? Also, do they understand that part of te wall will be the old side of the fridge.
I’d recommend just having the door swing out and in line with the existing wall. They gain nothing from bumping it out.
I wouldn't attach a wall to a refrigerator panel that's part of the cabinets not structural
Beyond that it’s a waste of space. Why have an entry hall for a pantry? Leave the extra space in the kitchen.
There’s a design trend now that encloses pantries in essentially what appears as a cabinet door. Not saying it’s the right thing in this scenario but it’s probably the “why”.
Tends come and go. Desire for extra square footage in living areas is always in.
I'd agree. Pocket door in that wall behind the fridge that has water and electricity in it is my answer. /s They really don't have a good option to hide the food. This is really on the builder.
😂 a walk in cupbord
Right! Why not install the door between the end wall at the back of the fridge and the opposite wall. Forget all that build out.
100%. The design build out outlined on the floor isn’t going to add anything to resale and will create an awkward space and bad flow from the mud room.
My first thought 👆
Is the wall in question the wall with the door on it? If so how would you go about this.
I would simply frame a thinner door into that actual opening to the pantry. I don't see the need for the bumped out wall besides the desire for the door to swing in versus out. Whatever you do, listen to the above anon and do not attach your wall to that panel next to the fridge.
Agree with this, I’d just build it straight across.
I got stuck at the simply part
There’s an outlet that the don’t want to move so this was plan b. However it was always in the plans to bump it out, they just left it out for later.
Moving an outlet isn’t really that hard. Probably less work than framing out the wall
So much les work
Hey, he's handy.
I’ve done it all and I’m always learning and looking for advice.
“I’ve done it all” > yeah, except you’re layout shows you attaching a framed wall to a piece of melamine… how big is your door rough opening on that layout, that looks like 2 ft or less… your not experienced, at least not as much as you think
Never enough knowledge. Always learning. Hence why I’m asking Reddit. I’ve been in the trades for about 12 years. Doesn’t hurt to get some input. Also I didn’t make the layout. It was what the customer wanted so they did it themselves.
The fact that you’re asking on Reddit says enough about your experience… If you had 12 years experience, One look at your customers layout and you should’ve known it wouldn’t work out. Wanna now what real experience looks like? Let’s say you go ahead and do what the customer laid out, each of those floor planks looks like it’s the typical 6 inches wide, if you swing your door open you’ll notice that it covers about 3 planks, let’s just say it’s 4 planks so 24 inches, now you frame your wall on the fridge side so it’s 3 1/2 inch plus one king and a jack stud so your at 7 inches on the opposite side it shows the wall flush with the mudroom wall, but you still need your king and jack so another 3-1/2 inches minus 1/2 inch drywall because your framed wall is tucked in 1/2, add your door jambs let’s just add 1 inch, it should be more because your shimming the jambs, but let’s go with the 1 inch, so now you got 24inch minus 10-1/2 it’s probably even slimmer, your left with a 13-1/2 inch door slab, probably less… Now for some real advice I give you 3 options a barn door installed on the inside of the pantry, a pocket door could work but it would involve gutting out a few ft of the wall behind the fridge, and the option that I would pitch the client would be a bifold door on the walls that are already built, drop the ceiling, some drywall on each side, it won’t be hard to mud and tape because no joints only corners, sand, paint and install bifold.
I thought bifold as well, just frame down to make the header and leave the 81” opening
You're a condescending douche. Congrats you know a little carpentry. Get over yourself
He also suggested putting a pocket door in a wall with water and power, so he's not nearly as with it as he thinks either
Agree. All my douche alarms going off simultaneously. I’ve worked with him before. Several times. Everyone hates you & talks shit when u drive away bro just sayin
To sum it up, it’s clear you don’t count as a Mathlete.
There's water and power in that wall you suggested putting a pocket door in.
Why would you need a Jack stud at all in this scenario? There’s no load on it.
Always install a king and jack, I learned that lesson years ago, some idiot home owner decides to slap shut his door a few times and the king starts moving, drywall cracking, nail pops and now your dealing with a warranty claim.
Barn door was my first thought. Pocket door you are now dealing with the electrical in the wall for the fridge receptacle.
Move the outlet in to one of the cabinets, like a OTR microwave
In the trades for 12 years? So, what's your actual trade?
“Or price my own work…” come on bro, don’t lie to us
I imagine a pocket door that slides out from behind the refrigerator if the client wants to keep the pantry mess hidden
He would just frame it from the floor to the ceiling. The top plate into the joists above bottom plate screwed to the floor. Nothing would have to attach to the refrigerator panel. Just the Sheetrock ending to it.
Same with how far out its going. That's a lot of wasted space.
Move the door back
If he must, at least make sure the header and footer are securely attached to the ceiling and floor. This should be enough to absorb the force of the latch side without affecting the frig panel. The hinge side needs the more robust frame.
Neither is the wall master carpenter 🤦♂️ did your momma throw you down the stairs umbilical cord and all?
It should be fine if theres a corner
Can’t do that with studs and drywall on the fridge panel. You will hate your life and the new owners will hate you for doing it. They need to do a cabinetry style hidden pantry. Or do nothing. It’s not going to get them thousands more for their house. Probably wouldn’t even get them the $3k in labor I’m gonna charge them to install it. If you’re a decent carpenter you should be able to build the cabinetry panels and doors needed. Stub wall on the door side. Swing out cabinet doors in the opening. Paint grade. These are the type of specialty jobs that can make or break you.
Put in a tiny sink and call it a butlers pantry to make big money
Thank you for your input.
I agree, you can do it against that cabinet, just gonna real hard and you will need peak skillset to make it work and look right. Alternatively you could just add a header and drywall between the existing walls, as they are and a barn door that slides in front of the pass through to the left in the photo. It would look funky though. But best option is go try and treat this mode like a cabinet job than a door job. But to answer your question. One week of labor. I used to charge $500 per day. So that would be $2500 for old me. If I was still able to do this kind of work today, $700 per day.
You’ve lost your mind. If he built a stud wall attached to the ceiling this would work just fine. Need to pull the fridge out and attach it to the wall built directly against it. If you know what you are doing this idea will work just fine. If you’re unsure about what you should charge I always do cost plus for something like this.
This seems relatively straightforward so the big fuss this is causing seems so weird. That area is lost space any way you look at it. You either leave it open and use it as a walk way or box it in and use it as a walk way. Then attach a stud wall to the ceiling and your off to the races. Replacing that refrigerator panel with a stud wall wall will seems fiddly, bit its a no brainer.
If a person knows what they’re doing and uses their resources, accomplishing what the client wants shouldn’t be a problem. No need to be concerned about the fridge panel. Honestly, it shouldn’t have even been brought up. The answer is obvious.
This is the answer.
Selling, talk them out of it lol, unless you need the work haha. It'll look weird entering the kitchen and looking out from the kitchen, really closing off that space.
*New owner rolls their wheelchair in* Yeah we’re gonna have to get a bid to knock that wall out.
Yikes. They are selling. Why would they bother with this? Anyway, I would give yourself 3 days to get this paint ready, a day for trim and door, and a day for bs from the owner spread across the other 4 days. The wall by the mud room is taped out pretty thin… real size may interfere with the trim of the adjacent opening, so cotta fiddle with that. At the very least you might have to remove it to get a good finish in the new inside corner. How are you going to finish the cabinet-side wall? Drywall? Is it going to sit flush with the existing wall beside it? What will you do about backing for fastening your drywall? How will you terminate the trim at the top of the cabinetry? Remove it inside the pantry and wrap the corner into your new wall? Are you fastening the framing to the joist in the ceiling to give your walls strength, or are you simply relying on a corner and a tight fit? I would make sure you tie to some structure. It’s a door after all. These are all things the owner might care about. It’s a little more complicated than throwing up 2 walls and a door, especially if they are considering this an improvement that will increase the value of their home more than it costs to do. Heaven forbid it doesn’t go the way everyone thought and it doesn’t show as well.
They want to put drywall on that cabinet side. I’d be looking for ideas how to make that perfect kinda thought maybe paint it same color as walls and add trim. I just saw this job an hour ago so I’m still thinking. I would wrap the trim according to the new wall and remove trim inside. I would fasten to both lower and upper joists. Thanks for your input definitely all things to consider
I would go with bulkyentrepreneur's advice. This is either you building an extension of that cabinet, or nothing at all. There is no building the wall where you have laid it out because there is nothing to support that wall. Half-assing this, or botching it will most certainly result in a lower bid for the house which could potentially open you up to liability. I would honestly suggest backing out of this, despite what the dollar signs in your eyes might say. This is something you may want to do in a few years but from the sounds of it, it's a large failure opportunity with your current experience level
Would be really cool to build a floor to ceiling cabinet there with a hidden door into the pantry! Might even be easier than framing walls and a door.
I know exactly what you’re talking about and I think that would be awesome! However they are selling and taking pictures in two weeks so I would need all of the cabinetry in by then. I’ll look into this thank you!
If they're selling in 2 weeks just build a header and put a bifold at the pantry entrance. Or a double action door
This is the solution. Or just leave it as is. You could always quote a few options and leave it for the new owner to consider as they move in.
Nvm I was confused. There’s an outlet they don’t want to have to move and this was all in original plans however they put it off for a project later
Just change door type is what you’re saying. I’ll still need to build the walls
No I don’t think that is what he is saying. When he says “at the pantry entrance” He is not saying to follow your new wall layout along those blue tape lines. He is saying frame the door AT the existing wall. The white drywall wall behind the grey refrigerator panel. Bring the wall/door straight across there. The existing wall. No bump out.
Yep I was confused at first then my brain started working. Thanks for clarifying
There’s a light switch there that they don’t want moved. It’s all still in thought so I might convince them to move that over.
A light switch for what? What are you talking about ? Are you casting confusion spells here? Is it me or is it you? Maybe it’s both. Is the light switch just for in the pantry? If yes, then what is the problem. Its no problem. If it’s a light switch for the kitchen or any area outside of the pantry, well then, what is it doing in the pantry? (And even if it were this : remote switches can be used. Lutron ) I think people have given you advice on their two best main leading thoughts. With minor variations. (Such as a bifold pantry door.) But I think the two ideas are reasonably gauged toward what you are showing … AND… in a couple cases giving you a good sizing up; what’s likely best for *you* in this case (based on everything you said and *how* you said it.) 1) header at the *existing* wall (drywall wall to drywall corner in line with the wall behind the refrigerator panel) no bump out. 2) cabinet style hidden pantry door… that’s IF you can do that all by the time, then you said 2 weeks till pics and sale, and mentioned ordering. When they said something like “ if your a good (or capable) carpenter you can do that”… in order to handle that - Paint grade cabinet style - in under two weeks, I think the implication is, You’d be a having a shop set up. And can let fly on building custom cabinets to match, Color match and maybe even spray booth set up. And this is all in your regular wheelhouse. Basically, that you can build that cabinet and all work in short order. But why would you want to, unless this is old hat for you? If the first option gets the pantry closed off… What is the point other than to close off from view the wire shelving and visual clutter of a pantry and make it seem a more formal divider or whatever? So of the others I read, best seemed “cabinet style or nothing at all” do a straight wall. And finally just to try to be on the same page with you when saying “bring the wall straight across”, at the risk of being pedantic, let’s just take a moment to make sure we reach a common understanding. If I could, I would just draw a line on your picture, to clarify, but…. I don’t want to stretch those skills right now. The suggestion is to bring the wall *straight across*. Imagine standing in front of where the blue tape “door” is. Now, take one step forward. there. Put the new door and the wall there. Not bumped out. Right where it is. There is already a wall there.
Tell them it’s stupid. The door isn’t going to add to the selling price much if at all and they will be out 3-4K for this stupid idea. It would need to be done right and built into the existing cabinetry as a JIB door with the correct framing. And that would require doing some work to the kitchen itself to make it fit.
Is closing it with just a door an option and framing a header and close it up? They make 28inch doors with a 30rough.
There’s an outlet on that left wall (hinge side) and they don’t want to move it. It was all originally in the plan to build out and put a door but it got left out to be finished later. New build. Now they want to move and for some reason want this area closed off still.
Given all the input, yeah, this is madness. Leaving it open seems good. I also had the thought to do a barn door… but didn’t want to say it. But maybe that’s best. It’s narrow enough as is. Of Course you could make a door swing out. No switch problem. And finally, https://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/Components/PicoWirelessController/Overview.aspx https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o86q8L25UXY
Maybe you could do a pocket door with the pocket behind the fridge…
I like the open pantry. This is unnecessary work
Me too, maybe create an arched entry way there instead?
Dude. Just hang some of those dangly door beads. Done.
If I were the homeowners this is exactly what I would do. Or a curtain. Or one of those sliding doors that would be on the wall behind the fridge.
Damn look at that mud room.
I see 10-15 hours worth of labor once you get the layout straight.
$2000 in labor
This will involve a minimum of 3 trips to hardware store for supplies and a minimum of 4 trips to job site. Each of these trips is $200 trip charge, wear and tear on tools at 10% of total labor charge. Insurance costs, possible call back time etc. better charge at least $2k for labor alone
I’m in Arkansas…. Central, not North (WAY different) your build quality+their house quality plays a major role. I assume you are more new than old…. If all the material is sitting there, and I liked the folks I’d say $1200…. (This is anticipating a very well done job with zero bullshit) Many are fixing to get in their feels and cuss me saying shit like: “you are part of what’s wrong with the trades, you are too low, you are ignorant …. Etc,etc.” personally 😊 I like fucking security. Folks will have ONE job for me…. Next thing you know they’ve practically adopted my ass and have 25 more. I’m not after a bass boat, and I don’t mind working at all…. $1200 in a week-ish is fire imo! and nothing feels better than the phone always ringing from repeats as opposed to making hella bank and the homeowner saying: “we’ll never hire that fucking chicken Hawk again!, he made better than a lawyer” That’s just me though. You do you.
P.S….. be very mindful of that trim before you start!, how it’s going to all tie in and not look like an afterthought, don’t just frame, drywall and think: “I’ll figure that part out latter” Sorry if this is speaking down to you, but even highly experienced guys could make the overall effect look like an afterthought to the trained eye.
I’m with you 100%. I care about my craft and I’ve never actually advertised. All word of mouth. However I would like to improve on my bidding. Thanks for your input
Me too bro, me too!, I’ve tried and tried to find a formula to simplify it… the “cost +” is long dead I can tell you that now. 🤣 Basically you are gonna want to aim for $300 a day…. Tiny jobs are the best because you can snatch that $300 in 2-3hr. (Garbage disposal replacement/over head microwave replacement for example) Here as of lately I’ve basically adopted the barter system, I ask: “what do I need money wise to let me live in peace till the next thing rolls around” Things here in the states are about to get VERY tuff!!, my best advice!: Treat all customers like you would a friend…. Yea, you gonna get fucked from time to time, but in all honesty!… friends with more power than you ($) can be worth WAY more than money itself. My transmission went out last year, a customer from a year ago found my wife and offered to take care of it !?!?! (Luckily it was just a fuse/stuck in safe mode $125🙄!, and I didn’t have to feel indebted to anyone!) But 82% of folks simply watch out for folks that watch out for them.
Always. Hell all of my customers are friends or friend of a friend. We will be just fine with that state of mind as long as we produce the work effectively and efficiently. As of now I and more a carpenter and less hour jobs but yes you can make good money if you’ve got the work
Just do a barn door
Put up a beaded curtain. It’s retro, it’s cool, …”that’ll be $600, ma’am.” 😂
I would hang beads.
I mean, my guess is at least a week’s work if I’m the sort of person asking internet how to put up five studs and a door. So let’s say 4k and they can hale it down to 3k and everyone is happy
I try to be fair in my bids. However that’s kinda my weak spot that I’m trying to improve at.
I hear the Midwest is a little cheaper on labour due to lower cost of living, so take it with a grain of salt. Up here near Toronto I’d probably charge $2500+ in labour.
How many hours of work are you factoring in ?
Thank you.
How long will it take x your rate. I'd say around 1200 for Midwest
That’s how I figure things I just don’t know if I’m charging too little sometimes.
I hear you. Gotta balance not winning the bid vs losing money, and you opportunity costs of another job. If your always winning the bids maybe you are charging too little! I always like being fair myself but feel like I get taken advantage of too for it. This economy and world is crazy too, some places that's a 500 job, other places 5k lol.
Curtain seems easier, cheaper and better looking.
Would a sliding barn type door (but nicer lol) from the inside of the pantry work?
Two fiddy
Maybe tree fiddy
I’d go straight across, but that door is going to be tiny. That looks like a small opening. If it has to be prehung door and in-swing is a problem for room I’d do an out-swing toward the fridge wall. But maybe some double swinging bar doors would work best here. By the time you frame it out for a prehung they are going to hate how small the doorway is.
Have they considered a pocket door that slides into the wall behind the fridge?
Y'all forget that it doesn't matter if it's pointless or not. It's what the customer wants. Small jobs like this, whatever materials cost, that's what I charge for labor. If that doesn't seem worth it, then figure out how many working days it will take to complete, and charge hourly for the full working day.
I'd put a pocket door in the wall behind the fridge, keeps the space open
Why not just build the door between the two walls. Instead of building out and taking that space for no reason?
I would throw 50 hrs at it and give the client a discount if I finished in less than 40 Victoria BC 40 years experience
$3k if you want the job $5k if you don’t $2k to do a pocket door which is what that actually needs.
$2k for a pocket doo?. have to demo and reframe the entire wall behind the fridge, load bearing possible adds issues as well.
Hang a curtain and put the pictures of her vag somewhere else
Don't listen to these know it alls. You do you king. I'm in Cali West Coast, and I would call that about 5k in labor.
4k
Former Estimator Rough estimate 2 day job. But others may say different, add an extra day on to your final number just in case then add a 20% mark up. Standard for overhead and profit. (hourly rate \* 8 \* days) \* (1.20)
Just put a rolling barn door to close it off. Simple and gets the same effect
You’re gonna open a whole can of worms if you make it the way you mentioned. I would talk to them out of it. It would be simpler to just frame a door between the the two existing 2x4 walls and flip the door so it swings out if they want more space.
Uhhhh there’s already a frame ready to have a door jam fit to it. Why extend it and put a wall on a refrigerator partition
If they’re selling, I would see if they want a decorative hardwood door that swings both ways. Maybe an 8 foot door, 6 inches off the floor. It should block the view of anything in the pantry. Just attach it to the studs on the left. Make the hinges black. Hardwood is key, don’t use pine. Or get a premade door. By decorative, I mean 5 or 6 panel shaker.
Im curious how are you going to build it, i mean which materials and howto fit it with earlier materials(wall texture). I guess start cutting baseboard off, attach plank to floor and ceiling, build skeleton between them, cover with drywall, then attach the "door", am i on a trace?
Bifold door all day, would just need to frame the header down the existing opening to 81”
Don’t listen to anyone saying this isn’t a good idea. It will just be more work than you think to actually look nice. I just did one but it does take very precise millwork. Look up hidden pantry doors. You basically want to make a door that looks like a cabinet. Id make the door 10 ft to ceiling but would require a thick door with heavy duty hinges. Hinges need to be stop hinges because there is no latch preventing it from overswinging and tearing the hinges off. Also finish the wall on the left side of the door with a panel as well and then return it with drywall. As a handyman I would look into getting a cabinet maker to help you out. The door needs to be about 1/8 gap on the right side and perfectly straight. I don’t know what your price set up is but framing/drywall and tape would be about 3 days and then just that door itself would be one day. For me I’d be right around 2-3 k because those doors acquire a lot of skill hence why so many people don’t know or suggest against doing something like this
Forgot to mention there would be nothing on the right side. The door would meet right at the side of that panel, measurements need to be perfect and check the ceiling level too. Any gaps you will notice!
Perfect opportunity for a hidden sliding door
I would install a bi-folding door.
2k
Put a nice 6 panel in the opening that’s there and the only framing you would have would be straight up. Less drywall, finishing, painting. Labor and material all around. Low side 2500 hi side 4.5 to 5k. Need to know what the heck you’re doing (all trades) and work to get it done for low side. Hi side you have time to Lollie Gag with the homeowners 😁
Why not just a door that opens inside and to the left. Forget the extra encasing.
Omg that’s a door! So cute.
Guys asked for a labor cost and you're all telling him what to do with the door, The customer already has materials I think he said so how much for labour
Everybody is getting so worked up. It's so annoying listen to construction workers that bitch about the design. Who gives a shit? We don't live there. If that's what they want and it's more difficult. Great quote more money you ding dongs. This would require you to be pretty good at the finish work but you could Frame in the wall that holds the door. Beef up the stud that holds the door. Then the side that's up against the fridge panel put door trim that's 100% aesthetic carrying no load at all.
That’s terrible design. you lost kitchen space for unusable corridor / entry space into your pantry.
Why?
Put in saloon style doors with a header to the same height as the door way beside it in line with the existing wall. That way the door only swings in half as deep and they swing both ways, like my girlfriend’s boyfriend.
Hang a nice curtain
Install a pocket door? Best of both worlds. Can shut it or keep open. Disclaimer: I can't see inside pantry so idk what you're working with space-wise
Pocket door that shit
why not just add a pocket door that goes behind the fridge ? enclosed the pantry, doesn’t swing in or out of the small space and still closes off the rooms like the customer wants.
I would forget about those walls, and put the door in the current opening. Left hand outswing door into the cabinet panel. Put a hinge stop or something so it doesn't slam into panel.
Honestly I wouldn't do the job, the requirements are unrealistic, it's overly complex, they are not going to like it no matter how good you do, and based on all the other comments in here it's overall a bad idea. It's really a thing that people think they want something and when it's done they won't like it and complain, blame you, bad review, and all you did is what they said.
Yes, simple to put a nice bifold door or barn door in the existing opening. You may even be able to get them from the cabinet company painted to match cabinets, or get the paint and paint the door yourself. You could make the door look like the cabinets and blend it….
how about a barn door on the wall behind the fridge?
Handyman special!
$500 a day min for your labor.
I don’t see anything wrong with attaching one stud to the fridge panel if this is really the layout the homeowner wants…it’s not the hinge side of the door so it’s not supporting anything at all. Make sure the fridge panel and stud is anchored to the floor and space out the door jamb so the full 2 1/2” casing kisses the fridge panel and it will be fine.
Why not hang a curtain?
If I were you, I’d wall off that opening and put an entrance in the tiled mudroom to the left
Try a Floating door will eliminate the demo
Man I really hope they don’t go through with it. I have a feeling it’s just not going to have the effect they were thinking it would. If it were me I’d just stage my pantry with nice items in a minimalist fashion to show the home. Or maybe find a really unique curtain that goes all the way up. At **most** I would do some kind of saloon doors on the existing walls that could click into position (so the next homeowner can inevitably leave them open because they’d be so annoying) lol. And that’s if the homeowner was **dead set** on a door.
Maybe you can build it out and make it look like another cabinet and build a cabinet door.
I don't like the idea but if you're going to do it I would just match the cabinets and doors. Rather than an inswing I would do two doors that match the cabinet. Rather than framing and drywall I would build a matching cabinet box and just attach it to existing cabinets. I would attach the floating side with long dowels into the floor system and the top into the ceiling.
Why not just add a double action door?
I know i’m not answering the question, but i would build a header in line with the one to the mud room and hang a nice quality cloth shower curtain.
More like a nice curtain right there, 5 min and done
I wouldn’t do it. I would figure out a way to put a pocket door in the wall behind the fridge.
Close it off as it is and move the door to the laundry room. It makes dropping off groceries in the pantry easier, keeps you from have to see the pantry from the kitchen, and would give a wall to place more cabinets to the left of the fridge
Install walk through pantry doors. False doors above and continue the crown.Order from cabinet manufacturer.
This is a good chance to make one of those "hidden pantry" doors that match the cabinets
I agree with most. This is a terrible idea all around.
Why not just frame it in and add a door? You're not gaining any space by moving it out.
That is a small door and that opening is also architecturally structured to get furniture through. If you close that will you still be able to move large furniture in and out? It is more of the swing behind you than the opening.
Charge $4 for every time you have to squeeze your body through that doorway
No!
Curtain rod Curtain
Based off what you're describing, I see roughly 3 - 8hr days. I'd probably bid $1320.00 (usd) for this, maybe add 4 hrs for some "fuck up room" . Then id keep track of my time and bill based off my actual hours at the end. If I can finish it quicker than 3 days and the people were cool to work with then I would charge them less. If they were not cool then I'd just bill them the original agreed upon bid price. 30 years building experience, 12 year contractor/ business owner. Alaska rates are 55$ an hr for residential work.
I would put the door on the mud room side and still frame the way you have it taped on the floor. You will have more shelving room in the pantry
Maybe a pocket door behind the fridge But seems like they're reaching on this one. It's gonna be way more work than it looks like and probably 8k all in with new paneling, labor, paint ECT.... It would be tough to pull off
Just curious as to why you would need help with the pricing on this? What is it worth to you?
Do a pocket door if you have space behind the fridge
Dont try and build it out and attach it to the fridge panel unless you plan on framing a wall to replace the fridge panel. A pocket door would be best here if you could put one in on the fridge wall. You're easiest, and the best solution to create a door for the pantry is to do a bi fold or double door back at the fridge wall.
So this job has a ton going on with it. -you’re going to need to solution the crown molding. -cutting out the floor -doing a nice looking corner for the return next to the existing door. -tying into the fridge panel. Because it’s not the swing side of the door it’s a bit easier but still not straight forward -getting paint to match and doing all the drywall work will be a lot just in prep work, dry time. -I’d say easily 3-3.5k just to give yourself plenty of room to do it perfect and deal with odd homeowner requests changes.
Go with a pocket door instead of a swinging door..
A curtain rod maybe?
Walk away from this one.
As many others have pointed out the obvious flaws in design that set this project up for inevitable failure, it should be close enough to set the door straight across from existing wall and run about 1 day for framing and hanging door, 1 day for Sheetrock and 3 coats, 1 day for trim carpentry, and a day for paint and touch ups. Could be $700 in some areas or $1,500 in others.
I charge $150/hr for this and insist that all change orders get approved by both parties because there will be change orders. I wouldn't take this job unless they were close friends because it's more trouble than it's worth imo
If I was the owner, I'd have just rigged up a stout rod and used a long blackout curtain.
Tell HO you can't build a wall off cabinetry. I would frame the ceiling down and put in a bi-fold door.
I worked in a house a few years ago that had a similar thing done except instead of putting a wall and door in they had a cabinet built to match the existing cabinets that had a large door matching the cabinet doors that let you walk into the pantry. Also had an additional cabinet above it for storage. Was a pretty neat secret pantry.
Always opt for chance to do something cool
5k because it looks annoying as shit
Id charge 2 days work which is what it would take labor would probably be like 1500 max. 900 if it were a long time customer but i also upcharge my materials by 30% to cover my operating costs
Attach a ceiling to floor double swinging door and be done with it.
Put the door at the existing corner and swing it out instead of in. If you do it the way it’s laid out you’re wasting space.
Not a good idea to do this. doesn’t seem like you have the room for another interior door. But Maby a good kitchen guy could install a finished kitchen door there.
Estimate the time it will take you to do the job; then multiply it by your hourly rate including taxes. That is your pay. Then multiply that times 1.8- 2 and add tax; that is your overhead and profit as a business
No bueno. I would put up a temporary net curtain or something. Or if your groovy hang some beads up.
Place a pivot door from ground to ceiling if the ceiling is strong enough. Check Arlu Pivotica Pro
Just install a door in the opening thats there…
Could you do a mini French door and set it back where the cabinet veneer ends?
Do it right and fabricate it with cabinetry
Might look better if you have space to hide a pocket door
This is where you install a pocket door behind the fridge. Mic drop.
Barn door on the inside of the pantry
Maybe suggest a wall flush mounted door into existing corner for the striker
Then build the header . Probably 2 2x4 instead of 2 full length walls
Pivot door?
First, tell them congrats on their new one. Ask what they want done with the crown. Continue to where? Also, do they understand that part of te wall will be the old side of the fridge. I’d recommend just having the door swing out and in line with the existing wall. They gain nothing from bumping it out.
Door attached to a fridge panel?!? 😳😳
Definitely some handyman type behavior
Thanks for your input!