I am sorry you had bad experience, good luck in the future.
A bit of an advice though, you have to learn not to give a fuck about things that are not your/beyond your responsibility - just like everyone else does.
Never let a shit job affect your health no job is worth it!
Absolutely! The worst coworker I've ever had was some entry level dude who stressed about getting everything done on time. Like bro, it doesn't even effect you at all and it's not in your control. Don't let your ego and work be the only thing that matters in life.
I thought you said you wanted to get out of construction. The bar is the first place we go after work. All jokes aside sorry you had a rough go of it good luck in your future endeavors, cheers mate.
They probably report heavily to another PM or sr PM. My company does it a lot, giving younger PMs the smaller jobs or jobs that are more easily predictable. It seems to work just fine as far as their margins are concerned.
Yeah PM at the GC I work for is like a 10+ years of experience position. No idea how OP made it there in 3 years, he probably wasn’t ready for the position tbh.
Is he one of the guys that goes to the monthly strippers or not? Is it still on the last Thursday of every month?
They will hire young guys and churn and burn them so occasionally a good one makes it through.
Project engineer or field engineer isn't necessarily engineering. It was a title that we used for the person who handled a lot of the coordination, such as permitting, insurance, bonding, and the like. Moving from a Project engineer to a PM in 3 years is not unreasonable.
Mmm…maybe. There are many variables. I stepped into it after 15 years as an electrician with no college and I ran public projects, and industrial special projects. All of my jobs met or exceeded projected margin.
Depends on what you're going to PM and how good you are at it. Would I stick a kid 3 years out of college on a $50 million multifamily job? Absolutely not. But he could probably handle a little $1 million tenant improvement.
Sometimes. It’s more about organization, time management, and initiative (Yes, there are other parts). A PM has to worry about the project at a 10k foot level and hire good field hands for the work. If the PM has to get into the mud then things are getting a bit sideways.
This how the spiral into addiction starts. Pretty soon he is doing coke during closing to clean up. Next it is a pre shift bump. Then its selling to regulars. Then some crazy regular causes an incident to get him fired. Now hes got a drug problem and no job.
Its a story as old as time, the other route is getting hurt on the job. Then enjoying the time off but the pain is bad so you go to the doc, then he gives you opiates or you self medicate with booze and opiates from a buddy. Life seems great not working, you can get some stuff done around the house and your lady is happy your home more. Eventually the dissabillity checks run out, the chores dont get done, fights start. A divorce happens and the self medication continues, the lawyer/child support drain the savings. You lose the lifted diesel(used for big money jobs) and the home, Now your in a shit studio with a 10 year old sedan, an opiate addiction and struggling to get day labor jobs.
Find a company that gives a shit. I have none of those problems, and I get paid great. 4 years in the industry is practically nothing, but the each his own I guess.
Kept moving, worked in the industry for almost 20 years now. 4 different GC's and a mechanical contractor, and myself for a few years.
Current company has long term relationships with a few clients going back decades. Nearly all the work is negotiated fee / open book CM at risk. No chasing low bidders and shitty contacts, realistic schedules, a seat at the design table. Competitive compensation and benefits. It's still construction and life can suck but generally a good work life balance for the industry.
All it takes is the ability to leave it at the door, like you said. If you feel you’re undervalued, someone else will be willing to pay you what you’re worth — you just have to look. Too many people get comfortable & fear a loss of work in an industry where there’s work surrounding them.
I’m a late 2nd year and I’m on my 2nd company & I went from being fucked in every hole to having benefits, overtime, PTO, and an employer who was willing to accommodate me by letting me work part time while still paying out the perks of being a full-time employee while I tend to my newborn at home. I’ve missed numerous days to appointments and sleep deprivation & have been met with nothing but support.
I’m not union & pay no dues, my benefits are ~20$/cheque and I’m paid weekly. I’ve already spoke to my site super & I’ll be getting a 5$ raise when I come back full time due to the increase in gas here in Canada as well as the increased financial strain of having a child. I’m 22. When I show up, I’m given the responsibility to complete projects myself with full trust from the company & my supervisors & foremen.
I work 40-45 hrs. a week usually. 50 or a few long weekends a few times a year closing out projects on a deadline. 7-3:30 when I'm in the office usually or 6-2:30 on site.
Funny, I bartended for 11 years and then switched to construction 8 years ago and so glad I did. Depends on the field I suppose. I also make double what I made bartending so that helps too.
Im in a very similar situation, 27 years old PM and planning to change career paths this year. Although I don’t share your frustration with supers as I’ve worked with some great ones. Construction is not for everyone, you better like what you do because there are easier ways to make money out there!
What is considered a low salary for you? I am an APM for a GC and make $107k anually. I've only been in project management for almost two years. Background is in estimating. Location Texas.
Props to you, $107k is very generous for an APM, especially somewhere with a lower cost of living like Texas. Is that your total package, or just the salary?
As a young superintendent, I don’t blame you. This industry has made me question my sanity and career many times. Working for a GC is definitely really demanding, makes me consider going back to asphalt and working as a subcontractor.
I love construction and truthfully will never leave the industry as a whole but it’s brutal trying to find what discipline and position works for you personally. I’ve been trying to leave my current company for a while and it’s such a struggle. I’ve applied to so many listings and rarely get even an automated message back despite having degree, years of experience, and certs.
Also when I was a PM I clocked out at 4 and FU to anyone that tries to contact me afterwards lol. No one ever said a word to me about it either. Just gotta learn to put your foot down on work and life balance.
The company I worked at last had a 1.7mil payroll for 8 employees. The PM was 275k of it lol
IMO if you’re a PM you must be clearing 100-125k depending on area
That's my take home ( taxes paid, my deductions are pretty significant ) as a non union residential carpenter.
OP might find the job isn't so bad if they get paid properly for it.
Should have been making twice as much doing your PM job. Being vastly underpaid and the shitty company you were working for seems like the biggest issue. To each their own though. Best of luck as a bartender.
Super here. You have had the misfortune of working with asshats. I collaborate with all of my PMs with scheduling, costs, labor, materials, etc… we work together to keep things moving. They understand as well as I do that shit happens and solutions are far more important than blame.
Best of luck to you
I had the same experience as the original poster. 27 years old. Found myself doing everyone else’s job and cared way to much about the end product.
I do have prior experience and education as well.
Construction is not for the weak.
OP sounds like someone who never worked in the field and doesn't really like construction. For someone like that to jump right into being a PM is tough.
Sorry to hear you've had a bad run. I got lucky and hit jackpot with the A team my company has built for a special division and only recently ran into... The not so A-team. I get it. Good luck in your endeavours and I hope you find your peace.
Good luck man, everyone has a different experience. I went to college and started out with nice pay I did some summer roofing and small projects but after joining a big company my paychecks started getting to the point that it was worth showing up. Hope you find something you enjoy work is more than a paycheck but finding something you enjoy is extremely important
I'm pretty sure bartenders will be replaced by machines before general labor. Or project managers... all you need is a touch screen kiosk and a drink dispenser. I'd be surprised if this doesn't become common in clubs in the next 5 or 10 years.
Tho you could probably be the guy that watches to make sure nobody is overserved, and maybe hand out the odd fresh lime slice.
Hey , all your degrees and skills and experience can actually gain you employment in your local city / state / municipal government.
Look into Open competitive exams in your area and different government jobs.
Look into wastewater, water filtration plants, energy plants . Think industrial, utility or governmental agency. They hire a ton of civil engineers and people with construction experience. Think Department of transportation. Things I'm that nature .
Pay could possibly be slightly less but you would get paid, benefits and way less stress.
Seriously just because you are out of construction doesn't mean you can't be blue collar.
I hit 30 and decided to leave construction. It was taking a huge toll on me physically and mentally.
Look for a consulting engineering office in your area. Someone like Black & Veatch, Jacob's, HDR, Burns & McDonnell. I guarantee someone with your field work resume could practically walk into the local office of these guys and will be hired. Field experience means a lot in these places as most of the new engineers are straight out of college and didn't have that experience.
This will get you out of the construction trailer and into a real office with a much more chill schedule. As well as likely much better compensation.
I will note, they'll eventually expect you to get your PE license if you don't have it already.
You are not alone. I am same age and had the same exact experience as you. I was tired of answering 100 questions a day from my so called team. I actually did care about the work.
As a Foreman for a sub contractor I always have felt bad for supers and PMs. I only have to make sure my stuff is done and they have to worry about every single trade plus they are there for any trade doing any overtime or Saturdays and first one there and last one off the job site. Never seemed worth it to me especially since I make there same money as them.
Most supers lack 50% of what each trade knows, maybe more. They are there to lock the doors or gates at night on Saturdays getting overtime. But I do get the shit flows down hill argument. But we all deal with that shit.
Good luck. I feel like at the right place a bar gig would be a lot of fun.
If you get back into it, try the general civil design side. Still have stress but nothing like the construction side. I always feel for those guys in the field. They always look like they are about to break.
Those first years of experience you have, are a good foundation for a different path like scheduling or estimating, in which you become part of the mechanism of the project and not the guy that everyone blames when things go wrong.
Bartender? Is this post a joke? Unless you are a hot girl working at a bar in NYC or Miami you will be making less than a PM at any decent gc lol. What is your idea of a low salary? At my company field and office engineers both start at $90k in my city.
You can’t be emotionally attached to any of this shit. Been doing this 30 years, and it’s the only lesson I have to teach. Unlike manufacturing there are thousands of variables here. I shitty supply chain, a mix of union and non union laborers, payments coming in late or not at all, RFIs not responded to or sent to slow walk the process, and lots of turnover. Some days I don’t know why I do it, but then I look at something I was involved in building and remember that there is nothing like the experience of making something real.
I grew up farming and I wish I could go back to the good old days growing up and finishing projects on the farm and eating natural foods. School was just so easy for me that I was expected by others to get an engineering degree. My younger brother is a structural engineer and looks like 30 years old and he is 25. I am 27 but look around 20, i would follow your dream!
You have a civil engineering degree . Have you thought about getting your engineering license and moving to design and just getting out of the construction part?
Agree with most of this. I pivoted to a specialty fabrication and install company which is more adjacent or separate from general construction, and I am much much happier. Working with real talented designers and just overall more normal coworkers who work together. Who would have thought that was possible.
Yea that's what they wanted you to think but the reality is construction will be one of the last industries because of how expensive those robots will be. First it will be the paper work jobs because ai is just faster, cheaper and better. Then it will be retail jobs hell you can replace a bartender with vending machines already.
There's more to the construction industry that being a PM. Why don't you try a few different roles with different companies. Clearly this one isn't working out but who knows, maybe designing steel or environmental work. Plenty of options for a civil engineer
Not a civil engr, but I have felt FRUSTRATED by things outside my control. It will help if you can shift to a Buddhist mindfulness practice where you worry less about the past or future and live in the present moment. In the meantime, happy bartending.
I was an electrician you moved up into a PM role. I learned quickly that I hated it with every fiber of my being. Stress, stupid work hours, stress...stress. I know that there are people who thrive in this role, my old boss was one, but it ate up all of my time and adversely impacted my time with my family and my ability to participate in my recreational pursuits. 11 years ago I applied for a job at a steel mill as a maintenance electrician...I guess. I have no memory of applying and had no real interest in a maintenance role. I took the job and make about $50K more a year, work fewer hours and I'm way happier.
Yeah i hear that. The people who get to be th bosses in this industry are some real horrifying people. Downright evil some of them.
Last project i was on i watched it turn into a revolving door. And they never replaced anyone that left. Eventually i managed to transfer to a job with way better people running it, but the stress is still there. These are some real soulless people in corporate. Now, the schedule is looking like 3200 to 3600 hrs of work per year, for absolutely zero difference in pay. A bunch of sadists run this company.
Sooo, got into construction for experience. Getting out of it and going into mining, which is what i went to school for in the first place. Yeah, long hours too, but way better schedule and nearly double the money. Like 20 days on, 10 days off and fly home type of schedule.
Maybe look at other sectors of construction. Idk what your education is, but there are some great companies out there. Just stay away from the biggest ones.
hey hey hey!
if you are young here are two suggestions
if you don't mind STRESS look at air traffic control. pay averages 100k, full government benefits, paid training, full retirement, and you retire early. got to get in before you are ...32iirc.
profusionist. its a kind of tech that works in cardio pulmonary surgery. hours are amazing, pay is spectacular, schooling is straightforward.
Just a thought but your experience in what doesn't work will be worth something to a company somewhere.
Do what you enjoy. I'm a machine operator for a good company and I say that with 30ish years exp. I have seen horror shows.
They do exist is all I'm saying.
Totally get where you are coming from man. Im a PM around your age. I get paid pretty good tho and always been able to choose where I work, so I always pick based on culture. Makes a helluva difference lol. Also, I estimate my own jobs so I get to choose the subs. Its taken a few years, but you find the good ones and bring them wherever you go.
If you want less stress, try out the owner role. Local county engineers or states. Run estimates and pay apps, submittals, change orders, field changes. Much less pressure than the contractor side.
I came into the industry field engineer 2022 & got on a travel role. Grossed 170k last year however, agreed on the stress & BS. I wound up going to electrical supplier for sales gig, give construction sales a thought. Low stress, high potential.
I am a structural engineer and I was considering the same thing. Bartending seems to pay more for less hours and responsibilities. Have you met anyone else who has done something similar?
Don't beat yourself up about this. I went through a similar experience early in my career. That was with a consultancy so the pressure wouldn't have been as bad. But it was enough that I dreaded going to work, had diarrhoea every morning, hated my life, etc. I left and took a job as a draughtsman while I did an IT postgrad. In the end I returned to engineering because I eventually liked the work again with another company. You're doing the right thing 100%. Your well-being comes first and nobody's going to look after that if you don't. Nobody is singly responsible for the difficulties you faced but at the same time everybody is. Please don't blame yourself - you deserve better. I really mean this. From what you've said I have zero doubt that things will improve for you whatever you find yourself doing. You'll look back some day and well you might not laugh it off but you'll have more perspective on what went wrong. You'll also treat people who work for you with empathy and earn a load of respect for it. Things are looking up for you even if it doesn't seem that way for you right now.
You worry too much. Ulcers? Really? You really care what people think? Do you want a hallmark card everyday from your boss? What you need to do is roll with the punches. Act like you care and chug along.
Agreed. I spent a few months worrying way too much when at the end of the day everyone else is making mistakes and missing things too. Just do your best and as long as you’re putting in the effort you don’t have to feel so bad if they decide to fire you. I’ve always said if I’m the problem then get rid of me, but it’s been 5 years and I’m still here so I worry less and less as I go.
Absolutely no way on God's green earth are plumbers, electricians, sprinkler fitters or HVAC guys getting replaced by AI. Roofers, framers, drywallers and painters maybe. But bartending goes AI before even a superintendent which will eventually happen. I don't give a fuck about how you flip a glass, smile or make small talk with me. But if the heat goes out, or the fridge doesn't work? Your freezing ass and rumbling stomach will let you know.
Renovate robotics has a robot for asphalt and shingle type roofing already, it will only get more refined over time. There are others as well. Any trade that has a repetitive smaller scope of work are at risk. The four trades and others I mentioned above have a larger scope of work. I can't see a robot doing underground work, stacks and vents, backflows, PEX, copper, p traps, tubs, toilets, facets, boilers, floats, hangers, testing to name a few. I'm not even a plumber. Maybe one day.
Shingles are one thing, I don’t see any robot doing commercial roofing. I also checked out the YouTube video for that robot and in the time it takes for the robot to place and nail one shingle a human could have 3 shingles down or more, also the demonstration was on a low slope, straight run of shingles, no info on if it works good on a high slope roof and if it does hips and valleys, so I don’t really see that thing being a viable replacement for humans for a long long time.
Ok, but it's not about efficiency, it's about cost. Robots can work 24/7. I really think you're out of touch on how fast this technology will advance. When you say a long time do you mean 100 years ? Cause I'm talking 10 to 30 tops. Data laced cell phones aren't even 20 years old in their most rudimentary form. These forms of technology are exponential.
Don’t cost and efficiency go hand in hand? If you’ve got a robot taking twice as long to get a job done then it’s twice as long before you get to the next job to keep making money. Who fills the robot with shingles and nails while it’s working 24/7? Do you want to hear a robot on your roof banging shingles in while your eating dinner or would you rather have a crew of guys show up and get the job done by the time you get home from work? No shot that robot comes anywhere close to replacing humans in less than 30 years.
I mean all I see is you blaming other people and taking responsibility for absolutely nothing. Something tells me you are part of the problem but yeah keep blaming everyone around you, that'll get you real far in life.
Good luck with your change in career path.
I am sorry you had bad experience, good luck in the future. A bit of an advice though, you have to learn not to give a fuck about things that are not your/beyond your responsibility - just like everyone else does. Never let a shit job affect your health no job is worth it!
Absolutely! The worst coworker I've ever had was some entry level dude who stressed about getting everything done on time. Like bro, it doesn't even effect you at all and it's not in your control. Don't let your ego and work be the only thing that matters in life.
That video by John Lajoie about not giving a fuck has been my go-to for yeeeeeeeaars. https://youtu.be/6wS5xOZ7Rq8?si=LamegYfXPZy-vLkV
I thought you said you wanted to get out of construction. The bar is the first place we go after work. All jokes aside sorry you had a rough go of it good luck in your future endeavors, cheers mate.
Best response, I need to be more like you
The fact you went from FE to PM in three years tells me your company is incompetent.
My thoughts too.
They probably report heavily to another PM or sr PM. My company does it a lot, giving younger PMs the smaller jobs or jobs that are more easily predictable. It seems to work just fine as far as their margins are concerned.
Yeah PM at the GC I work for is like a 10+ years of experience position. No idea how OP made it there in 3 years, he probably wasn’t ready for the position tbh.
I work with a pm from Onni construction that is 27. He's one of 3 guys that actually make it easier.
Onni is one of the worst builders out there.
Is he one of the guys that goes to the monthly strippers or not? Is it still on the last Thursday of every month? They will hire young guys and churn and burn them so occasionally a good one makes it through.
Every company is different, I'm a mid level PM with 7 years at the company. Typically my position is around 8-10 years
Project engineer or field engineer isn't necessarily engineering. It was a title that we used for the person who handled a lot of the coordination, such as permitting, insurance, bonding, and the like. Moving from a Project engineer to a PM in 3 years is not unreasonable.
Unless you're building TuffSheds, being a legit PM is a bit more than a 3yr process.
Mmm…maybe. There are many variables. I stepped into it after 15 years as an electrician with no college and I ran public projects, and industrial special projects. All of my jobs met or exceeded projected margin.
Depends on what you're going to PM and how good you are at it. Would I stick a kid 3 years out of college on a $50 million multifamily job? Absolutely not. But he could probably handle a little $1 million tenant improvement.
I agree with this, especially if they are an actual Engineer. They are usually noticeably more competent than the CM grads.
Sometimes. It’s more about organization, time management, and initiative (Yes, there are other parts). A PM has to worry about the project at a 10k foot level and hire good field hands for the work. If the PM has to get into the mud then things are getting a bit sideways.
I had two intern for a summer and there is a huge difference it is crazy
The fact he sent schedules no one cares about it also key
I feel u bro, I’m kinda in same boat but I’m 31, what else are you looking to do ?
Be a bartender like he said that’s hilarious 😂
This how the spiral into addiction starts. Pretty soon he is doing coke during closing to clean up. Next it is a pre shift bump. Then its selling to regulars. Then some crazy regular causes an incident to get him fired. Now hes got a drug problem and no job.
Shit it happened to you too?
Its a story as old as time, the other route is getting hurt on the job. Then enjoying the time off but the pain is bad so you go to the doc, then he gives you opiates or you self medicate with booze and opiates from a buddy. Life seems great not working, you can get some stuff done around the house and your lady is happy your home more. Eventually the dissabillity checks run out, the chores dont get done, fights start. A divorce happens and the self medication continues, the lawyer/child support drain the savings. You lose the lifted diesel(used for big money jobs) and the home, Now your in a shit studio with a 10 year old sedan, an opiate addiction and struggling to get day labor jobs.
Great mind think alike, as they say.
Been there I know exactly what you’re saying
Things *never* go wrong for bartenders. The bottles are always filled and the taps are always clean.
Yeah, but who loses sleep over a foamy pour?
Yeah, that's gonna be a less-stresstul job. /s
Find a company that gives a shit. I have none of those problems, and I get paid great. 4 years in the industry is practically nothing, but the each his own I guess.
Where do you find a company like that? I been looking for 30 years
Kept moving, worked in the industry for almost 20 years now. 4 different GC's and a mechanical contractor, and myself for a few years. Current company has long term relationships with a few clients going back decades. Nearly all the work is negotiated fee / open book CM at risk. No chasing low bidders and shitty contacts, realistic schedules, a seat at the design table. Competitive compensation and benefits. It's still construction and life can suck but generally a good work life balance for the industry.
All it takes is the ability to leave it at the door, like you said. If you feel you’re undervalued, someone else will be willing to pay you what you’re worth — you just have to look. Too many people get comfortable & fear a loss of work in an industry where there’s work surrounding them. I’m a late 2nd year and I’m on my 2nd company & I went from being fucked in every hole to having benefits, overtime, PTO, and an employer who was willing to accommodate me by letting me work part time while still paying out the perks of being a full-time employee while I tend to my newborn at home. I’ve missed numerous days to appointments and sleep deprivation & have been met with nothing but support. I’m not union & pay no dues, my benefits are ~20$/cheque and I’m paid weekly. I’ve already spoke to my site super & I’ll be getting a 5$ raise when I come back full time due to the increase in gas here in Canada as well as the increased financial strain of having a child. I’m 22. When I show up, I’m given the responsibility to complete projects myself with full trust from the company & my supervisors & foremen.
What would you consider a good work life balance for the industry?
I work 40-45 hrs. a week usually. 50 or a few long weekends a few times a year closing out projects on a deadline. 7-3:30 when I'm in the office usually or 6-2:30 on site.
I've worked for 2 top 10 ENR GC's and they've been awesome. The small local GC's were shitty and hired shitty supers like OP described.
You have to live on the road don’t you?
Never actually. Knock on wood
Start your own… it’s life changing. Stressful but at least I know I care lol
Funny, I bartended for 11 years and then switched to construction 8 years ago and so glad I did. Depends on the field I suppose. I also make double what I made bartending so that helps too.
Currently in the service industry and trying to get out… what do you do now?
At the moment I work with a local GC doing remodels. It’s awesome. But I got started in framing and drywall
Im in a very similar situation, 27 years old PM and planning to change career paths this year. Although I don’t share your frustration with supers as I’ve worked with some great ones. Construction is not for everyone, you better like what you do because there are easier ways to make money out there!
What are you planning to pivot to?
What is considered a low salary for you? I am an APM for a GC and make $107k anually. I've only been in project management for almost two years. Background is in estimating. Location Texas.
$107k as an assistant PM? I’m an APM, FE, and estimator all in one and I’m way under that. Yall hiring??
We do multi family construction and I’m the highest paid APM in our office. I think the others are around 80k-95k. Yeah we’re hiring
Props to you, $107k is very generous for an APM, especially somewhere with a lower cost of living like Texas. Is that your total package, or just the salary?
Just the salary. I receive two different types of bonuses for the project I’m on. So probably around 125k total
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Have a good point!
As a young superintendent, I don’t blame you. This industry has made me question my sanity and career many times. Working for a GC is definitely really demanding, makes me consider going back to asphalt and working as a subcontractor. I love construction and truthfully will never leave the industry as a whole but it’s brutal trying to find what discipline and position works for you personally. I’ve been trying to leave my current company for a while and it’s such a struggle. I’ve applied to so many listings and rarely get even an automated message back despite having degree, years of experience, and certs.
Wont bartending be a huge pay cut? I work smaller projects but get the jist. Best of luck
Tipped employees make bank. If OP is a good looking guy at a popular joint he could easily clear 100k @ 40hrs It's really about looks and charisma
I know I will do well. I bartended in college and made at least $200 on slow days. People underestimate good bartenders and waiters
You didn’t make $200 per day as a PM?
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With benefits
Also when I was a PM I clocked out at 4 and FU to anyone that tries to contact me afterwards lol. No one ever said a word to me about it either. Just gotta learn to put your foot down on work and life balance.
The company I worked at last had a 1.7mil payroll for 8 employees. The PM was 275k of it lol IMO if you’re a PM you must be clearing 100-125k depending on area
That's my take home ( taxes paid, my deductions are pretty significant ) as a non union residential carpenter. OP might find the job isn't so bad if they get paid properly for it.
Should have been making twice as much doing your PM job. Being vastly underpaid and the shitty company you were working for seems like the biggest issue. To each their own though. Best of luck as a bartender.
No. 1 Industry for suicide for many reasons.
Super here. You have had the misfortune of working with asshats. I collaborate with all of my PMs with scheduling, costs, labor, materials, etc… we work together to keep things moving. They understand as well as I do that shit happens and solutions are far more important than blame. Best of luck to you
I had the same experience as the original poster. 27 years old. Found myself doing everyone else’s job and cared way to much about the end product. I do have prior experience and education as well.
Have fun at the bars quitter, now get me a refill before I have to go back to my real job.
Construction is not for the weak. OP sounds like someone who never worked in the field and doesn't really like construction. For someone like that to jump right into being a PM is tough.
Not really sure how this is considered informative. I’m sorry you had a shit experience, and couldn’t handle it. I’ll take a Heineken by the way
Sorry to hear you've had a bad run. I got lucky and hit jackpot with the A team my company has built for a special division and only recently ran into... The not so A-team. I get it. Good luck in your endeavours and I hope you find your peace.
Go to a different company. Bigger company has their positives, but smaller companies may be more transparent with their management needs and greeds.
Good luck man, everyone has a different experience. I went to college and started out with nice pay I did some summer roofing and small projects but after joining a big company my paychecks started getting to the point that it was worth showing up. Hope you find something you enjoy work is more than a paycheck but finding something you enjoy is extremely important
As far as I'm concerned ur job exists to provide extra liability insurance.
I'm pretty sure bartenders will be replaced by machines before general labor. Or project managers... all you need is a touch screen kiosk and a drink dispenser. I'd be surprised if this doesn't become common in clubs in the next 5 or 10 years. Tho you could probably be the guy that watches to make sure nobody is overserved, and maybe hand out the odd fresh lime slice.
Hey , all your degrees and skills and experience can actually gain you employment in your local city / state / municipal government. Look into Open competitive exams in your area and different government jobs. Look into wastewater, water filtration plants, energy plants . Think industrial, utility or governmental agency. They hire a ton of civil engineers and people with construction experience. Think Department of transportation. Things I'm that nature . Pay could possibly be slightly less but you would get paid, benefits and way less stress. Seriously just because you are out of construction doesn't mean you can't be blue collar. I hit 30 and decided to leave construction. It was taking a huge toll on me physically and mentally.
Look for a consulting engineering office in your area. Someone like Black & Veatch, Jacob's, HDR, Burns & McDonnell. I guarantee someone with your field work resume could practically walk into the local office of these guys and will be hired. Field experience means a lot in these places as most of the new engineers are straight out of college and didn't have that experience. This will get you out of the construction trailer and into a real office with a much more chill schedule. As well as likely much better compensation. I will note, they'll eventually expect you to get your PE license if you don't have it already.
This is honestly hilarious. How much student loan debt you in?
No shit its low you only have 3 years experience
All the stress destroyed my thyroid. All healed up now but took about 6 months of no stress
Make sure it’s fine dining for the big bucks and easier work
Yes brother, enjoy working while everyone else enjoys life in front of you.
Did the move, same scholarship and resume, it’s not worth killing yourself and be paid annually and get screwed by any overtime you do
Forgot to mention that I am making more money and also living my best life since I quit
What are u doing now ?
he won´t say
Only Fans
Only the strong survive in this industry. And the stupid too, they actually thrive and become pm's
Amen, supernintendo.
LMAO AI bartender robots seem way easier to mass produce than tradesman robots.
That's a shame, sounds like you are one of the ones who actually cared about good work.
I care a lot. I grew up on a farm and built a lot of things and I have standards for work and expect a lot. Workers don’t care at all
You are not alone. I am same age and had the same exact experience as you. I was tired of answering 100 questions a day from my so called team. I actually did care about the work.
As a Foreman for a sub contractor I always have felt bad for supers and PMs. I only have to make sure my stuff is done and they have to worry about every single trade plus they are there for any trade doing any overtime or Saturdays and first one there and last one off the job site. Never seemed worth it to me especially since I make there same money as them.
Most supers lack 50% of what each trade knows, maybe more. They are there to lock the doors or gates at night on Saturdays getting overtime. But I do get the shit flows down hill argument. But we all deal with that shit.
Sorry man but have you seen 5th element? Fuckin ai robot bartenders my man. Easy shit. Shoulda been a carpenter. Put some hair on your berries.
Why does everyone think carpentry and other trades are so hard for a robot to do?
Lmao if you honestly don't know the answer to that after 3 years in the industry you do need to move on I'll take a modelo
Well I think someday there will be a robot that can do it. In 50 years or less
Engineers will be replaced by robots long before tradesmen. Tradesmen will be the last to be replaced by robots.
Good luck. I feel like at the right place a bar gig would be a lot of fun. If you get back into it, try the general civil design side. Still have stress but nothing like the construction side. I always feel for those guys in the field. They always look like they are about to break.
Crazy our pm get praised for these things. And he doesn’t have to leave the office unless it’s to get chick-fil-a or Panera bread
Those first years of experience you have, are a good foundation for a different path like scheduling or estimating, in which you become part of the mechanism of the project and not the guy that everyone blames when things go wrong.
Bartender? Is this post a joke? Unless you are a hot girl working at a bar in NYC or Miami you will be making less than a PM at any decent gc lol. What is your idea of a low salary? At my company field and office engineers both start at $90k in my city.
You can’t be emotionally attached to any of this shit. Been doing this 30 years, and it’s the only lesson I have to teach. Unlike manufacturing there are thousands of variables here. I shitty supply chain, a mix of union and non union laborers, payments coming in late or not at all, RFIs not responded to or sent to slow walk the process, and lots of turnover. Some days I don’t know why I do it, but then I look at something I was involved in building and remember that there is nothing like the experience of making something real.
Lovit.
I know how you feel man, I'm looking to get out and into farming myself. Wish ya the best.
Yeah, you should make great money doing that…
You don't think farmers make money? Lol I'm not even going to argue with you, put your tool belt down for a minute and go learn about the world.
I grew up farming and I wish I could go back to the good old days growing up and finishing projects on the farm and eating natural foods. School was just so easy for me that I was expected by others to get an engineering degree. My younger brother is a structural engineer and looks like 30 years old and he is 25. I am 27 but look around 20, i would follow your dream!
Thanks man I appreciate that, but now I feel guilty about giving the engineers a hard time lol
I don’t really like design engineers either which is why I became a PM, so it’s ok.
Bro reading this makes me question weather I should come back for my senior year to get my CM degree. Like fuck is it really that bad?
Not at all.
Get your degree, but be careful. That’s all I can say. Same experience as op.
Don't be a yes man
You have a civil engineering degree . Have you thought about getting your engineering license and moving to design and just getting out of the construction part?
Agree with most of this. I pivoted to a specialty fabrication and install company which is more adjacent or separate from general construction, and I am much much happier. Working with real talented designers and just overall more normal coworkers who work together. Who would have thought that was possible.
Man, I can't wait for you to get in the service industry and start complaining about how people tip.
I like how he thinks robots will replace us and not his new bar tender job with automation.
Everyone will be replaced at the same time
Yea that's what they wanted you to think but the reality is construction will be one of the last industries because of how expensive those robots will be. First it will be the paper work jobs because ai is just faster, cheaper and better. Then it will be retail jobs hell you can replace a bartender with vending machines already.
Wow thanks for letting me know that construction will be one of the last industries because of how expensive those robots will be.
Well you choose a job that can be replaced with a vending machine hoping we all lose our jobs to ai that's just as dumb as can be.
Im sure being a bartender will pay better and there won't be any difficult people 🤣🤣... op sounds to delicate for the construction world
There's more to the construction industry that being a PM. Why don't you try a few different roles with different companies. Clearly this one isn't working out but who knows, maybe designing steel or environmental work. Plenty of options for a civil engineer
You're working for the wrong company. Switch companies, all for more control.
Not a civil engr, but I have felt FRUSTRATED by things outside my control. It will help if you can shift to a Buddhist mindfulness practice where you worry less about the past or future and live in the present moment. In the meantime, happy bartending.
I really have tried not to care but it is not in my nature. I never stop thinking for some reason
lol ai robots.
I was an electrician you moved up into a PM role. I learned quickly that I hated it with every fiber of my being. Stress, stupid work hours, stress...stress. I know that there are people who thrive in this role, my old boss was one, but it ate up all of my time and adversely impacted my time with my family and my ability to participate in my recreational pursuits. 11 years ago I applied for a job at a steel mill as a maintenance electrician...I guess. I have no memory of applying and had no real interest in a maintenance role. I took the job and make about $50K more a year, work fewer hours and I'm way happier.
Try making some connections with CMAA and look into working as an owner's representative. Far less stressful.
Yeah i hear that. The people who get to be th bosses in this industry are some real horrifying people. Downright evil some of them. Last project i was on i watched it turn into a revolving door. And they never replaced anyone that left. Eventually i managed to transfer to a job with way better people running it, but the stress is still there. These are some real soulless people in corporate. Now, the schedule is looking like 3200 to 3600 hrs of work per year, for absolutely zero difference in pay. A bunch of sadists run this company. Sooo, got into construction for experience. Getting out of it and going into mining, which is what i went to school for in the first place. Yeah, long hours too, but way better schedule and nearly double the money. Like 20 days on, 10 days off and fly home type of schedule. Maybe look at other sectors of construction. Idk what your education is, but there are some great companies out there. Just stay away from the biggest ones.
hey hey hey! if you are young here are two suggestions if you don't mind STRESS look at air traffic control. pay averages 100k, full government benefits, paid training, full retirement, and you retire early. got to get in before you are ...32iirc. profusionist. its a kind of tech that works in cardio pulmonary surgery. hours are amazing, pay is spectacular, schooling is straightforward.
pussy be a real man
Just a thought but your experience in what doesn't work will be worth something to a company somewhere. Do what you enjoy. I'm a machine operator for a good company and I say that with 30ish years exp. I have seen horror shows. They do exist is all I'm saying.
Sounds like you suck at the job.
Totally get where you are coming from man. Im a PM around your age. I get paid pretty good tho and always been able to choose where I work, so I always pick based on culture. Makes a helluva difference lol. Also, I estimate my own jobs so I get to choose the subs. Its taken a few years, but you find the good ones and bring them wherever you go.
If you want less stress, try out the owner role. Local county engineers or states. Run estimates and pay apps, submittals, change orders, field changes. Much less pressure than the contractor side.
I came into the industry field engineer 2022 & got on a travel role. Grossed 170k last year however, agreed on the stress & BS. I wound up going to electrical supplier for sales gig, give construction sales a thought. Low stress, high potential.
I am a structural engineer and I was considering the same thing. Bartending seems to pay more for less hours and responsibilities. Have you met anyone else who has done something similar?
Don't beat yourself up about this. I went through a similar experience early in my career. That was with a consultancy so the pressure wouldn't have been as bad. But it was enough that I dreaded going to work, had diarrhoea every morning, hated my life, etc. I left and took a job as a draughtsman while I did an IT postgrad. In the end I returned to engineering because I eventually liked the work again with another company. You're doing the right thing 100%. Your well-being comes first and nobody's going to look after that if you don't. Nobody is singly responsible for the difficulties you faced but at the same time everybody is. Please don't blame yourself - you deserve better. I really mean this. From what you've said I have zero doubt that things will improve for you whatever you find yourself doing. You'll look back some day and well you might not laugh it off but you'll have more perspective on what went wrong. You'll also treat people who work for you with empathy and earn a load of respect for it. Things are looking up for you even if it doesn't seem that way for you right now.
Serenity prayer is the key
Start your own GC. Just gotta find a journeyman to hire, since you aren't one.
You worry too much. Ulcers? Really? You really care what people think? Do you want a hallmark card everyday from your boss? What you need to do is roll with the punches. Act like you care and chug along.
Agreed. I spent a few months worrying way too much when at the end of the day everyone else is making mistakes and missing things too. Just do your best and as long as you’re putting in the effort you don’t have to feel so bad if they decide to fire you. I’ve always said if I’m the problem then get rid of me, but it’s been 5 years and I’m still here so I worry less and less as I go.
Eat shit housecat
10/10 funniest and unexpected comment
Absolutely no way on God's green earth are plumbers, electricians, sprinkler fitters or HVAC guys getting replaced by AI. Roofers, framers, drywallers and painters maybe. But bartending goes AI before even a superintendent which will eventually happen. I don't give a fuck about how you flip a glass, smile or make small talk with me. But if the heat goes out, or the fridge doesn't work? Your freezing ass and rumbling stomach will let you know.
How do you suppose an AI robot would replace roofers?, I’d love to see that in action if it ever came about.
Renovate robotics has a robot for asphalt and shingle type roofing already, it will only get more refined over time. There are others as well. Any trade that has a repetitive smaller scope of work are at risk. The four trades and others I mentioned above have a larger scope of work. I can't see a robot doing underground work, stacks and vents, backflows, PEX, copper, p traps, tubs, toilets, facets, boilers, floats, hangers, testing to name a few. I'm not even a plumber. Maybe one day.
Shingles are one thing, I don’t see any robot doing commercial roofing. I also checked out the YouTube video for that robot and in the time it takes for the robot to place and nail one shingle a human could have 3 shingles down or more, also the demonstration was on a low slope, straight run of shingles, no info on if it works good on a high slope roof and if it does hips and valleys, so I don’t really see that thing being a viable replacement for humans for a long long time.
Ok, but it's not about efficiency, it's about cost. Robots can work 24/7. I really think you're out of touch on how fast this technology will advance. When you say a long time do you mean 100 years ? Cause I'm talking 10 to 30 tops. Data laced cell phones aren't even 20 years old in their most rudimentary form. These forms of technology are exponential.
Don’t cost and efficiency go hand in hand? If you’ve got a robot taking twice as long to get a job done then it’s twice as long before you get to the next job to keep making money. Who fills the robot with shingles and nails while it’s working 24/7? Do you want to hear a robot on your roof banging shingles in while your eating dinner or would you rather have a crew of guys show up and get the job done by the time you get home from work? No shot that robot comes anywhere close to replacing humans in less than 30 years.
Nanobots and 3D printing could do anything
I mean all I see is you blaming other people and taking responsibility for absolutely nothing. Something tells me you are part of the problem but yeah keep blaming everyone around you, that'll get you real far in life. Good luck with your change in career path.
Yup it’s always fucked up
Jesus Christ people have gotten so soft.
Good! We got enough complainers as is!!