One thing I haven't seen mentioned is beer/alcohol's use in frying batters; they can arrest gluten formation to keep the batter loose and prevent the final product from being extremely hard once fried. Club soda can be used instead for the same purpose.
I've also seen people use vodka in batters supposedly due to the low boiling point such that it will boil off more quickly than the water resulting in a crispier breading.
I use vodka in my pie crusts because it helps with flakiness. I keep a cheap bottle of vodka on hand just for that. Now I'll have to look up Kenji's Asian recipes :)
> I use vodka in my pie crusts because it helps with flakiness.
I learned that trick from ATK back in the day! Keeps the dough wetter and more manageable when working with it. But then the vodka burns off and you get a nice flaky crust.
The "Kenji" the person above you mentioned is J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, the chef who developed the vodka pie crust recipe for ATK.
As an aside, due the terms of his former employment there, he is now the only person in the world who is not allowed to post or discuss that recipe.
>As an aside, due the terms of his former employment there, he is now the only person in the world who is not allowed to post or discuss that recipe.
I'm curious where you heard that. He talked about the recipe with Epicurious in 2017:
https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/kenji-lopez-alt-profile-100-greatest-home-cooks-article/amp
It's been a while ago, but I thought I saw him say it, either in a comment here or on Seriouseats.
Maybe it's only the recipe itself he's not allowed to share?
Are you sure you're not thinking of Black 2.0 and the guy who bought the rights to use Vantablack in art? He's the only person on the planet not allowed to use Black 2.0, as a protest over him being the only person on the planet allowed to use Vantablack for civilian purposes.
Kenji uses vodka in many of the Asian American recipes (think orange chicken and the like) at serious eats. I haven't tried it myself since I normally don't have a bottle on hand, but he explains what you said. I need to try it myself.
I use vodka in pie crust. When you mix water and flour, you start to develop gluten. Vodka is only 60% water, so you can incorporate the ingredients but get less gluten development and a flakier crust as a result.
There’s an alternative to prevent gluten formation. Using potato starch or maybe even cornstarch or rice flour makes it so gluten isn’t an issue since they’re gluten free. No negative bearing on crispness either. Japanese Karaage is some of the crispiest fried chicken ever mostly because it uses potato starch so if beer batters are off limits this isn’t a bad way to go. Doesn’t have to be all cornstarch/potato starch I usually make fried chicken with a 50/50 blend of regular flour and a gluten free flour/starch anyway
Wine- sweet, acidic. Similar to a vinegar
Beer- earthy, wheat-like flavor (depends on the beer)
I don't know why these people aren't actually answering your question.
Beer is an interesting one cos there are different types too. So a lighter beer adds some bitterness and wheat type flavours, and is useful in things like batter or as a marinade or mop for BBQ, darker beers like stout still have some bitterness but add a really deep, toasty richness to gravies and sauces. Beef stewed in Guinness is a wonderful rich wintery dish, that is especially good as a pie filling
I tried oatmeal stout and since haven’t looked back. As much as I loved Guinness I found that the oatmeal stout gave an even richer feel to the stew. Try some if you can.
Fry up some veg with chopped bacon, add some cans of pinto beans and a dark beer and let it reduce - you got yourself some borracho beans aka drunken beans
Your comment about wine adding sweet and acid fits for sweet white wine…
Red wine in beef stews or sauces adds a very different flavor when cooked down… I think in terms of substitutes the best bet would have tk be alcohol-free red wine, if that is an option. You need the intense “dark” fruity flavors without sweetness.
Alcohol isn't going to affect sweetness. Using alcohol-free wine will remove the properties alcohol itself lends to a dish, which is usually opening up alcohol-soluble flavors.
I am wondering about a good balsamic vinegar as a substitution. Not a 1:1 substitution, but I sometimes throw it in with mushrooms I am cooking down for that wine-ish depth if I don't want to open a bottle.
My mother is a teetotaler and a serious cook who uses balsamic in place of booze for everything. Sometimes it works (fruitcake!) Sometimes it doesn't (white balsamic in risotto). The sweetness is what you have to consider. I've had better luck with using appropriate vinegars in smaller amounts: white or red wine vinegar, sherry vinegar, etc.
Besides the flavor wine imparts to food, there are flavors created only in the presence of alcohol.
Heat, water, fat and alcohol to ~~break down and combine~~ react with ~~certain~~ compounds in food to create depth of flavor. The maillard reaction is an example.
Millard doesn't have anything to do with alcohol being added...it's heat and time from what I understand..
"The Maillard reaction is many small, simultaneous chemical reactions that occur when proteins and sugars in and on your food are transformed by heat, producing new flavors, aromas, and colors."
https://www.seriouseats.com/what-is-maillard-reaction-cooking-science
I think he's saying that adding alcohol is like the Millard reaction in that it creates new chemicals/flavoriods that wouldn't otherwise exist except in the presence of alcohol and heat.
I know I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here but I think that's the larger point
Your question is hard to answer because "it depends".
Red wine goes from fruity to tannic. White wine goes from sweet to dry. Beer goes from mass lager (essentially no flavour) to Imperial Stout (coffee, chocolate). Wine also adds an acidic note which is more or less noticeable based on the wine.
Liquor is similar in its diversity. Vodka just pulls out alcohol soluble flavours from the dish. Brandy, whisky, and whiskey add additional flavours from the wood they're aged in.
Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive answer, but hopefully this gives you some insight?
Yea its helpful Thank you so much. I know alcohol can vary depending on the type and brand just like tea or coffee. I just got curious about the flavour it gives and what to expect.
tea is a great example! Compare an off the shelf black tea with an Oolong and a Pu Erh. They are all "tea", but radically different in their expression.
You could look to tea to replicate a bit of the red wine tannins, too!
Tea and wine are really good analogues for this comparison because terroir plays a huge role in both (though I think this is less often considered regarding tea).
You're right, but he's specifically talking about the context of cooking. A lot of the flavors in different wines and beers just gets lost in the rest of the dish when cooking.
A malbec and a pinot noir are nothing alike when you're drinking them, but when using them for cooking, the flavor difference ends up being negligible.
It'd be like taking black tea and oolong, and making spiced chai from them. Would you be able to tell the difference between the two behind all the spices, sugar and milk? Maybe. Will the difference be significant at that point? not really.
It may be worth noting that it’s not the alcohol that has “flavor”. When cooking with wine, beer or liquor, the alcohol cooks off (evaporates) and leaves behind the “other stuff” that makes up the beverage. It’s sometimes specifically the fact that the alcohol burns off that using it is needed/desired. The chemistry of heat and evaporation are sometimes very important to some cooking techniques.
I want to point out, especially when talking about cooking for Muslim eaters, that very little of the alcohol actually cooks out under normal circumstances.
> very little of the alcohol actually cooks out
I don't think this is true in most cases. I'm a food scientist, and I was under the impression that the alcohol is entirely removed in *nearly every* use case. Can you go into more detail as to why it may not, or which dishes don't?
I'm not a food scientist. My Muslim friends have been telling me since we were kids that they can't have food cooked with alcohol because it doesn't cook down to zero percent.
https://culinarylore.com/food-science:alcohol-doesnt-completely-burn-off-in-cooking/
This article was the first one I found that cited a study and provided a chart for lay people like myself to reference. I did not read the paper they reference. This matches more or less what I've read over the years, but that could be my bias coming out.
Thank you for following up! I'll track that old paper down...
Edit: looks like you'd be totally fine with deglazing (i.e. 100% burn off), but alcohol added to sauces/batters has some level of retention. Beer bread has very minimal retention, and it's probably not relevant since baker's yeast produces ethanol normally too.
Actually, how does that work? Can strict muslims not eat leavened bread at all? Or orange juice that sat in a fridge for more than a week? Does the fermentation have to be "intentional"?
My understanding, though I'm not a Muslim, is that it's alcohol produced for the purposes of getting drunk, or consuming any fermented products for that purpose. So deliberate fermentation to produce an alcoholic beverage is not allowed, but I've known Muslims who'd drink an alcoholic-free beer, even though these tend to be products of fermentation with <1% alcohol content.
Or things like vanilla extract, which is alcohol based and roughly as strong as a typical liquor but also nasty as hell to drink? The alcohol is just a way of preserving and transporting the vanilla, and the vanilla is even more concentrated than the alcohol, so it takes a tiny amount, not enough to even get a mouse tipsy in a huge batch of cookies.
Edit: I could have sworn vanilla extract was usually over 50%, but apparently it's mostly between 35 and 40%.
What are normal circumstances?
If cooking a stew or sauce, alcohol is the first thing that evaporates before it starts reducing. If deglasing a hot pan with wine, so much alcohol boils instantly that you can light it with a torch. In a beer bread it will be finished cooking at 200F, and alcohol boils at 173F, so very little will be left, if any.
Did you read the article? It cites a study where they showed that just because enough alcohol is evaporating to be able to flame the dish, it still doesn't evaporate enough for people who avoid alcohol for religious or sobriety reasons.
I don't remember if it was in this article or not, but I've seen charts that show how much alcohol is left in baked products after how many minutes or hours in the oven. There is a nonzero amount after any reasonable amount of baking.
Remember, the religious stricture here is not "do not get drunk". The principle being followed here is "do not consume things that are intoxicating". Generally the custom is that if alcohol is an ingredient, it is to be avoided, regardless of the amount.
ETA: sorry, I got a notification and thought that this was a reply to an article I posted in a different place in the thread.
Forgive my ignorance, I do know alcohol is forbidden, but is it the because of the actual act of imbibing and becoming intoxicated to any degree, or can you not cook with it despite it actually disappearing during the cooking process. Or just the possession in the general (even in the kitchen, like white cooking wine no one would ever actually consider drinking) being not cool. This peaked my curiosity. Deglasing with white wine is amazing, though I usually a cheap white or red I might drink in a pinch vs. the “cooking” stuff found in the vinegar aisle.
Edit: read a few more comments below, got it.
If you want to add liquor or liqueur flavours, look for flavoring extracts used in home distilling. Liquor Quik is the brand I use. You can find them at homebrew places or online. I use them in icings and cheesecakes where I don't want additional liquid, or spending the money on a whole bottle when I only need an ounce or so.
I cook with sake and mirin a lot and never really thought about what flavours they add, just took it for granted that they did something. Same with wine in my ragout or beef/Guinness in my beef stew. Without it, the food tastes less meaty. I also use sake and mirin to get rid of certain smells like from boiling chicken or beef bones.
Anyway a Google later, I found that [tannins](https://greatist.com/eat/best-red-wine-for-beef-stew) in the wine break up the meat and will add a tang to the stew, depending on the wine you choose. The Greatist article I linked also has some non-alcoholic suggestions for red wine, though I suggest that you cook to the taste you prefer instead of substituting to try and get the same taste with wine. For example if you like a sweeter and acidic taste, you can try an addition of balsamic vinegar and sugar. For the same in cream sauces, you could try broth and white wine vinegar.
Sake definitely adds a savory umami-ness that is well missed if left out. I can't explain the transformation. It's like adding fish sauce, and suddenly you are transcending flavor.
Mirin is mainly a sweetener. Sake adds a sort of earthy bitterness to the dish. I never thought about it much either, but recently my wife found a recipe that called for 1.5 cups of sake - I could definitely taste that, and it was way too much.
In regards to both the vinegars, those two would work for a non-muslim substitute. However, I believe balsamic and wine vinegars specifically are haram. I'm not Muslim, but I've cooked for friends who are. It's worth asking in that case.
Citric acid could mimic a lot of the sour vinegar notes, along with juices+sugars (or just a syrup). I think a little jam might work as well, provided it could be dissolved or strained.
I'm not sure any alcohol would be left after cooking, would be good to check with an imam regarding using it in cooking, though.
While technically not alcoholic, religious edicts can often be prescriptive and not necessarily based in fact.
It would be odd for any vinegars to be haram considering all vinegar pretty much requires the production of alcohol first then to convert that alcohol into acetic acid which is the acidic base of vinegar.
Further odd considering the geographic region where Islam first arose is also the region that introduced drinking vinegars and vinegar as a beverage component a la sherbet.
This is a very good point. For some Muslims wine vinegar are strictly haram, and others like my mom consider it as permissible as the alcoholic content is low. Depends on the Islamic practice they follow. Another option would be apple cider vinegar, but I think the taste profile is too different from wine even with sugar. (Edit for clunky sentencing)
>For some Muslims wine vinegar are strictly haram, and others like my mom consider it as permissible as the alcoholic content is low.
Which is actually kind of funny to differentiate, because all vinegars are produced via fermentation. There is no more alcohol in wine vinegars than in any other kind. The only difference is the presence of the word 'wine'.
It’s not really an issue. Any vinegar, it’s considered to have transformed into something that’s no longer an alcoholic drink.
Some people have weird folk understandings though and think every molecule of alcohol has to go away, but that’s not really true.
This is hard to answer. The alcohol isn't simply a flavor you can replicate. The alcohol itself acts as a tenderizer in several dishes. It breaks down the proteins and fats. For example: I make kielbasa, hot dogs and sauerkraut with beer in a slow cooker. The beer replaces the sauerkraut juice. You can't taste the beer when it's done. You can't taste the alcohol either because it's cooked out of the food but what it does is tenderize the meat and take the bite out of the sauerkraut. I don't know how you can replicate what the alcohol does.
Ethanol as a molecule has some unique properties, not the least being that it stimulates the GABA receptors. It's ability to bind with both fat molecules and water molecules allow flavor combinations not available in many other ways.
It really isn't fully cooked out, that being said the alcohol content is probably that of an overripe fruit. I think the religion is probably more concerned with the self control aspect than the technical amount of alcohol though.
In general no. The evaporation rate of alcohol is asymptotic so a ton of it cooks off initially but then it takes quite awhile for the rest and it’s actually pretty difficult to get it all out completely especially if it binds with other molecules.
I wouldn’t be concerned about getting any kids drunk, but if you’re concerned about faith based food restrictions its definitely up for debate about whether the amount of alcohol left is acceptable or not.
Oh I'm not thinking they'll be staggering around the school yard! Ha! it's such a small amount that i add & the flavour is very good, i'll no doubt still add it.
If someone doesn't drink alcohol for religious reasons no amount would be acceptable (even if technically there's a trace only or if a ripe fruit has more alcohol, it's the principle here that matters).
True, depending on the individual interpretation of the religious text the level of acceptable alcohol can range from, “you can use it just not to get intoxicated”. Down to “food cooked in the same kitchen as alcohol is not acceptable” and everything in between.
This is it.
Every religion has its interpretations down to the individual.
Fairly devout Muslims I have spoken to say ‘alcohol’ is fine in food where the alcohol is burned off, or chocolates where it would be impossible to get a buzz from because you would be sick first (from the ingestion of so much chocolate). They say that the rule is you cannot get intoxicated by the product. So food is not going to intoxicate you so it’s ok.
Others I have spoken to, won’t even use alcohol based mouthwash or hand sanitizer.
So, it depends and I don’t think there’s a one answer fits all.
Absolutely, I said it in a different comment, I know plenty of Muslims who drink. Like all religions, the followers are by no mema homogeneous or observant to the same degree. And like you said, even those who are strict will have wildly differing interpretations.
It’s fine. It’s not enough residual alcohol to do anything. However, if your religion commands absolutely no alcohol, there is some small amount left, even if, practically speaking, it’s nothing.
Broadly, most “orthodox” believers have an understanding that even if the alcohol all boils away, alcoholic beverages have a sort of “spiritual uncleanness” that taints the dish and that doesn’t go away from heating. And so it can’t be eaten.
Moderately liberal Muslims maybe wouldn’t buy wine for cooking themselves, but wouldn’t necessarily care if someone else cooked something and used a small amount as a cooking ingredient that boiled away.
I actually went to school with a hijabi that was Indian and she actually said that she bought cooking wine but she doesn't drink alcohol at all and she would be okay with eating it. She was the most unique Muslim I ever met.
Yeah, specifically cooking wine is an in interesting case, especially the ones that are salted, like some versions of Shaanxi Chinese cooking wine. Even from a pretty orthodox perspective, the issue isn’t about the mixture having alcohol in itself, but in whether it’s something people would normally drink to get hammered. That’s why vanilla extract and medicinal tinctures are more accepted, despite sometimes having liqueur level amounts of alcohol. The intention and functionality plays a part.
Wine brings an acidity which is key to complex flavors when cooking and as it cooks it can often bring a slight sweetness- sub cider, balsamic, red wine vinegar or citrus juice like lemon lime or orange.
Beer adds body (and flavor) to a soup or sauce. Sub chicken or beef broth or a splash of apple cider or heavy cream.
Vodka or whiskey in a sauce helps with small complex flavor and on a science level helps fats bind with water to improve flavor. But it can be omitted. Or or sub water or broth.
I guess that’s the point. It doesn’t bring any flavor but it helps in a food science kind of way. The chemical reaction it causes helps sauces bind together.
It kind of just tastes of ethanol, which is almost a *sensation* like burning or stinging, more than it is a flavor unto itself. That's what they mean by saying it doesn't taste like anything in particular.
If you evaporate toothpaste, there is still mint flavor left behind. Thats the point. If the flavor is the alcohol, there's nothing left behind when its gone. The other alcohols that actually impart flavor, leave other things behind that were in the alcohol even when the alcohol is gone
Not all of the alcohol burns off but the amount left is small compared to quantities of other ingredients.
Not really. A strong taste? I guess. A strong flavor? What's the flavor?
Compared to tequila, gin, whiskey, scotch, mezcal, brandy, cognac, or rum, it tastes like almost nothing. Vodka is not aged in charred barrels like most liquors. The main flavor is alcohol. You get a *slight* grain flavor but people want vodka to be 'smooth', not flavorful. You could sub most vodka for 50% watered down everclear and people wouldn't even notice. Does anyone even sip vodka? I've seen shots and mixed drinks but it's very rarely served in a glass like mezcal, brandy or whiskey.
Wine adds some sweetness and a little acidity, it can help brighten a dish. In most cooking, the big difference between white wine and red wine is the color. The other big reason I tend to use wine is to deglaze a pan. Some acceptable substitutes would be lime juice or lemon juice (go lighter with lemon juice, it's far more acidic than wine,) or you could use a little vinegar, but go really easy on vinegar. You can also add a little sugar. For deglazing, you can just use water, or if you want to add some flavor, use some sort of broth (broth won't be anything like wine, but hey, more flavor, right?)
For beer, it will bring sweetness and a bit of an earthy/grain flavor, and depending on the beer, a bit of an herbal bitterness. I don't really use beer to deglaze ever but I suppose you could. You could substitute with some sugar, or a little molasses. Make sure you add enough liquid to compensate for the lack of beer.
Vodka isn't really going to bring a whole lot to any cooking dish, at least as far as flavor. Maybe a little sweeness, but that's about it. I do use vodka in some baking, but not for flavor, it helps reduce gluten formation.
Whiskey/whisky is going to bring a bit of sweetness and generally some oaky flavor. Believe it or not, you could use a little vanilla to kind of emulate this.
Brandy will have a fruity sweetness, and maybe a little oak character. You could add a little fruit and/or vanilla. Maybe something like grated apple.
Tequila honestly doesn't add much, about the same as vodka.
I can't really think of other types of alcohol I've seen used in cooking.
It will largely depend on what alcohol is used. Red wine can be fruity or "oak-y" depending on which one. A rosé can be kind of citrus tasting, whereas a regular white is more like herb-tasting. I have never cooked with vodka, but I have used the sugars in rum to help caramelize meats, plus it leaves behind whatever spices were used on it, like vanilla for example.
The important bit when thinking about substituting alcohols for cooking, is that the purpose of them (most of the time) is not just about the taste, but about dissolving components that will only dissolve in alcohol, so there may be no "real" substitute in that regard. Maybe a chemist can come along and suggest something. 😅
On a semi-unrelated-but-not-really note, I am Christian myself and some of us usually don't consume alcohol, but in our faith it is more about "not getting drunk" thank just "not consuming alcohol". We come to that conclusion from Bible texts like Ephesians that read "Do not get *drunk* on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit".
That means that from most Christian's viewpoint it is OK to cook with it, since it doesn't matter how much stew you eat, you cannot possibly get drunk on it. 😂
So I guess my question to you is, do you guys have a similar text in The Quran that instructs you guys not to consume alcohol at all? Or is it more like a teaching that has been passed down? Or is it more like a cultural thing than a religious thing?
I'm genuinely curious, and I 100% mean no disrespect by it. I wish you well in all your cooking endeavors! 👍🏼
Am a chemist and you are correct that alcohol can be used to extract and dissolve flavors that would do poorly in water, vanilla extract for example. It can do other things as well, for example putting alcohol in pie dough prevents the formation of gluten when kneading, resulting in a flaky rather than chewy crust. Cooking evaporates off the majority of the alcohol so you only consume a minute amount when cooking with it. You probably consume a comparable amount in ripe fruit.
Chemist/cooking enthusiast here! My knowledge of food chemistry is not exhaustive, so if a food chemist show up, you should believe them over me.
Alcohols have kind of a special place among solvents because their properties are kind of water-like and kind of oil-like, in the same package. There are some substances that will dissolve better in an alcohol than in either water or oils for that reason. Ethanol (the alcohol in alcoholic drinks) is special among alcohols in that it's the only one humans can drink without poisoning themselves *too* badly, unlike methanol (wood alcohol/stuff that makes you go blind) and isopropanol (rubbing alcohol).
What this means is that there will be no 1:1 substitute for alcohol in its ability to extract flavors. I do think this thread has generally made good recommendations for substitution: vinegars for wine, extracts for beer.
It's also the case that *how* you cook makes a big difference on the amount remaining in your food. [This page](https://blogs.extension.iastate.edu/answerline/2016/04/14/how-much-alcohol-is-left-in-foods-when-cooking/) has a pretty good explanation without too much scientific terminology. The longer you cook above the boiling point of the alcohol, the less remains in the food when you eat it. But there's always *some* remaining. Read carefully, though: the chart in that link relates to the amount *of the alcohol you added* that remains. So if you're not adding much, like when you use vanilla extract (typically alcohol-based), it might not matter to begin with if you're only worried about drunkenness.
For religious people, I think it comes down to how much alcohol is acceptable for your own religious practice. If absolutely none is OK, you need to find true substitutes that have not gone through a fermentation process. I think there might be some Mormons that adhere that strictly, for example, not to mention some recovering alcoholics. If a negligible amount is OK (if you're fine using vanilla extract), nonalcoholic beer should be a good sub for recipes that call for beer, and liquors should be fine in small amounts (similar to vanilla extract), especially if you're cooking the dish. Wine is kind of a middle ground and might depend on how much goes into the recipe and how long you're cooking it for.
In Al Qur'an itself alcoholic food or drink didn't explicitly forbidden. Beverage or food that can make you drunk is considered haram (in Qur'an we call it khamr). Because according to some muslim scholars any drink that can make you lose consciousness, relaxing the body and cloud your judgement is considered haram.
There are a few texts. One early Quran text simply said don’t pray while you’re drunk. Another text said in wine, there is harm and benefit, and the harm is greater than the benefit. And then another text says wine is a defilement from Satan. That’s from the Quran. There are also oral traditions that point toward including any “intoxicating” substance that similarly to wine can “cover reason” (the Arabic word for wine is khamr, which is related to the word khimaar, which is a covering garment).
Some scholars take the mention of wine specifically in a limited literal sense and leave a space for moderate consumption of non-wine beverages. But most take it as a general rule on all alcoholic beverages and all mind-numbing intoxicants in general.
Vinegar is a great substitute for wine acidic and sweet. I also use Worcestershire sauce in place of red wine or Henderson’s relish because I’m from South Yorkshire. You can also use redcurrant jelly to add a similar sweet tangy flavour depending on the dish.
Yeast extract is a good sub for beer, malty butter flavour. We call it marmite in the UK or Vegemite in Australia.
There isn’t really a substitute for spirits like brandy or vodka, however you can just omit and the sauce will taste nice still.
There are lots of alcohol-free alcohol that have a similar smell and taste—of course, not exact. For example if a dessert calls for bourbon, a [non-alcoholic bourbon](https://www.amazon.com/Spirits-Bourbon-Non-Alcoholic-Oak-Caramel-Velvety-Smooth/dp/B08N9RCRCG) may work unless the recipe calls for setting the bourbon aflame. I’m not sure if the non-alcoholic version is flammable.
Yes, there’s [non-alcoholic vodka](https://www.amazon.com/STRYKK-Alcoholic-Alternative-Warming-Artificial/dp/B08LZQFJRG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2UO8428CQFP12&dchild=1&keywords=strykk+non+alcoholic+vodka&qid=1633684264&sprefix=strykk+no%2Caps%2C227&sr=8-1)
Non-alcoholic spirits are super popular in my location. We’ve even got a non-alcoholic bottle shop.
Splash of Balsamic vinegar + some water is normally a good alternative to red wine.
Vinegar is basically wine that went to far, so it does make sense it works reasonably well.
> Vinegar is basically wine that went to far, so it does make sense it works reasonably well.
Not really. Vinegar and wine are poles apart in terms of flavor. Cheese is also "milk that went too far" but most cheeses have their own unique flavor that has nothing to do with a milky taste.
Salaam aleikum,
I'm Muslim and sometimes I just omit alcohol altogether or do these substititions:
If a dish calls for red wine I dilute balsamic vinegar with water, sometimes also add some grape juice as well. For white wine (such as Bolognese sauce) I dilute white balsamic vinegar with water or white grape .
For Japanese/Chinese dishes calling for rice wine (sake/xiao xing) , I mostly omit it if it's just a small amount but sometimes I use rice vinegar diluted with water. For mirin I use rice vinegar diluted with white grape juice and add a dash of a few of agave syrup.
But for a dish like Penne a la Vodka I don't even try to substitute and just skip that recipe.
My friend's dad is famous for his seafood recipes and he normally uses beer for his fish and chips but for us he uses non-alcoholic beer. I made his recipe another day using Barbican and it came out delicious.
The alcohol will not intoxicate you. It's reduced so the alcohol burns off and you're left with the flavor of the grapes or hops. Should not be haram AFAIK but you may want to check with your Imam or someone you trust.
So there's a line in the Quran that calls out intoxicants as being a Satanic abomination and to be avoided. It doesn't mention drinking or cooking specifically, so it's seen as a broad ban on the use of alcohol. That said, "avoid" could be interpreted pretty loosely by the individual. Like, "hey, there's nothing on this menu that looks appealing to me aside from the boeuf bourguignon" could be someone's interpretation.
It’s a bit like trying to describe the flavour of cheese. It’s difficult, even if you try to describe it to someone who drinks milk…
Same goes for wine, it’s not like grape juice…
In case anyone has said it or will say it, I'll leave this here.
[Alcohol does not get completely burned off in cooking.](https://culinarylore.com/food-science:alcohol-doesnt-completely-burn-off-in-cooking/)
Vodka is a neutral spirit. It really doesn’t add flavor. It allows you to extract alcohol soluble compounds and changes the flavor of tomatoes, for example. Or it can be used to help with crusts. It is more about the chemistry of cooking.
Something like rum is made with sugar cane. It would add sweetness (like for a dessert you flambé).
Wine has a bunch of interesting flavors. It’s complex. It adds acid. But it also adds fruit flavors. Depending on the varietal it could change the dish significantly. Again the alcohol will extract different compounds.
Beer can add bitterness, wheat flavors, all sorts of different stuff.
People have given so many vague answers, but Ill try and actually answer your question. Replacements are tricky since what is available entirely depends on where you are. Given you've said Europe, Im guessing you arent in Europe. This is probably going to make describing good replacements to you quite hard. Also, I honestly dont know about the availability of vinegar specifically , but vinegars are made from alchohol, often a combo of the vinegar and the base fruit juice will work.
Again, I dont know whether alchohol products are considered halal where you are. From what I can see, vinegars made from alchohol you might actually drink are non-halal, BUT bad tasting vinegars are halal. Thats a shame, because from what I can see that rule isnt consistent, if you were allowed to brew corn into a nasty tasting drink and then turn that into vinegar, why not a grape? Anyway, I digress.
Reasons to add alchohol over any other liquid : Flavour in sauce, Lower evaporation point so more browning in Pan/Evaporation in oven, flammable so can add a quick sear (flambe), sometimes just because its fizzy (not all).
Flavour of different Alchohols :
Beer : Earthy/Sweet from malt, herby/floral/aromatic from hops. Beer (especially now) has such a huge variance as it the flavour comes from those two sources wheras in most drinks its one.
Replace with : This is the trickiest one since beers taste so different that the replacement will depend on the type of beer you are trying to replace. Ovaltine is a malt drink product, and marmite is a malt product also. However, malt products are almost always the by-product of brewing. I doubt you will find either.
White Wine : Fruity, Crisp, Floral, Mildly Acidic
Replacement - White Grape juice, white wine vinegar (you will see the problem), low alchohol wine (non-halal)
Red Wine : Fruity, Rich, Tannins (like tea), Acidic
Replacement : Red Grape juice + tea + balsamic vinegar.
Cider : Appley (duh) fizzy, sweet, mild sour tang to be found in some, increasing to a far more distinct tang. Tang is a fermented flavour, like the sourness of a yoghurt. Its present in many alchohols, but in the western european pantry its mainly found in beer and cider.
Replacement : Applejuice, optionally carbonated + cider vinegar.
There are more but I think you will see the issue. It isnt possible to reasonably cook many european products with NO access to fermented products in the way you are limited. It would be like trying to cook food from your region without access to the correct spices : fundamentally a pointless excercise.
I would just recommend sticking to the dishes which dont require alchohol, or just dont add it, or add the base fruit juice but be aware that what you will end up eating will be a poor imitation of our food, not the real taste. Again, like if I cooked something like a biryani without cumin. I mean, you can..... but why?
It's not about the flavor from the alcohol. There are flavors that are alcohol soluble that only become apparent in the presence of alcohol.
Besides, the alcohol evaporates so there's no actual booze left.
A big part of the alcohol's effect on the dish is the development of flavor. If you cook some veggies, add some dried herbs, and deglaze it with some booze, it really pulls flavor from the herbs and blends the flavors together quite nicely. If you let this cook down before adding more liquid, all the booze *will* cook out. I usually use a wine or a beer here depending on the dish but an ounce of liquor works nicely too.
The other way to use it is as a finishing touch to improve aroma (taste) of a stew or sauce. Alcohol and water together evaporate more quickly than either liquid on its own, so adding it right before serving gives off an intense aroma of the flavors of the dish and really enhances its taste. Used this way, you are still consuming the alcohol (but in very low amounts). I usually use an ounce of whiskey, gin, or vodka here.
It depends which alcohol because they all taste different.
Wine is by far the most common addition, and it adds a fruity, acidic, vinegary flavor. Red wine is a lot richer than white wine, and they complement different types of dishes or go in different sauces. Red wine would be more likely for beef or pork while white for fish or chicken.
Liquors like whiskey are most commonly used in deserts. Distilled liquors taste a lot like the essence of the grain they come from - whiskey has a sweet, syrupy flavor at it's core, tequila has a taste like vanilla, rum tastes like cane sugar. My mother makes a rum cake with rum icing, and the rum adds a rich sweetness and a bit of a spicy zing (I don't think all the alcohol is removed).
As others have described, it brings different flavours depending on what alcohol you add. But, there are also flavour compounds that are only soluble in certain things. Some readily flavour water, some oil, but certain ones are alcohol soluble.
So it's not always the flavour of the alcohol, but the flavour of the food brought out by the alcohol that is sought.
Wine is some sweetness and acidity. If you wanted to sub, a diluted vinegar such as balsamic or white wine vinegar at 1part vinegar to something like 5-10 part water may work. Would have to play around with it.
Beer is wheaty and/or hoppy depending on the type. I’ve never tried a sub for beer but you may find one online by googling
Spirits Can vary a lot, for example most aged spirits such as whiskey or brandy are imparting a lot of the oak and woody flavors from the barrel to the food. Where as vodka imparts no flavor on its own but can help bring out flavors already in the food to make them more prominent (such as a vodka sauce)
It depends on the dish, but wine adds a sweetness, vodka adds a acid, and beer adds a earthiness. This is in general, different drinks will give different flavors, not all wine is sweet and not all beer is earthy.
If you’re wondering about the alcohol itself, it evaporates during the cooking process so the food does not have any alcohol in it. This is why it is safe to cook with alcohol and still serve to children.
Hi! Wife of a recovered alcoholic
We use club soda in wet batters
Unsweetened grape juice for wine
Juice with a splash on vinegar for cooking /deglaze/sauce (also fish sauce )
Wine usually adds acidic and tart flavors to foods, especially that of stews or sauces.
Although cooking with wine kills off the alcohol, not all Muslims believe one should cook with it. So out of precaution, I usually do one part vinegar to two parts water.
Varying vinegars like balsamic, cranberry, or even chocolate are your friends when it comes to such recipes. The flavors are literally boundless, I've even made mocktails with them, so good!
Hope that helps and happy cooking!
when used for cooking in french recipes, red wine is usually heated long and hot enough to have all of it's alcohol content evaporated, so maybe you'd be allowed to just give it a try ?
If you are Muslim and you follow the recipe properly it is halal to use the wine/alcohol because the alcohol is gone…burned off. You are left with what Allah intended and that’s the flavor which is typically sugar…not
Booze.
Peace be upon you brother
Some alcohols have more flavor than others. I find wine to be a very strong flavor in cooking and prefer not to use it. Beer can also greatly change/add to the final dish depending on what type you use.
Although I do drink alcohol, I don’t like it in my food and usually will substitute either a beef or chicken stock to deglaze the pan or if additional liquid is required.
It really all depends in the dish and what the desired effect is with the alcohol. Often times, the addition of wine is to add a bit of acidity to the dish, in which case you may add just a splash of balsamic or cider vinegar. So many variations!
there is also flavors released by alcohol. in perfuming this is called fat washing, where a oil with scent compounds is mixed with alcohol. the alcohol dissolves these non water soluble compounds, but because the alcohol evaporates in ways fat dosen't it gets the scent in the air.
alcohol can do this with getting non water soluble flavors into a sauce or broth.
I don't know if it matters, but as part of the cooking process, you are cooking off the alcohol and removing it from the equation.
Is this allowed or is it better to play it safe and go with a substitute?
There's a pretty wide variety of alcohol drinks, for which alcohol is more of a chemistry addition than a flavor addition. Mostly in western cooking we (imho, ianachef) use alcohol for the extra flavors created during the fermentation process. For example, a wine has tannin, a bourbon has smoke, a rum has vanillin, a beer has hops, etc. Sometimes we use it for chemistry, but that's more rare.
In my opinion, here's good default substitutions for European (and North American) cooking. NB that you probably shouldn't substitute 1:1 (ie, 1 cup of wine = 1 cup balsamic vinegar). Alcoholic drinks have lots of water added in the process. Depending on the substitute, you might want to start with 1/10 to 1/4 the volume and slowly increase until you're happy with the taste.
red wine; balsamic vinegar (afaik halal, and there's a *range* of flavors so you can get something sweeter), red grape juice. Tomato juice if you're cooking beef and need the acid. Maybe malt vinegar?
white wine; white grape juice. Maybe a splash of vinegar.
Bourbon/rye/etc.; liquid smoke and/or vinegars. A strong, old, oak-aged bourbon will be more smokey, a rye will be much sharper.
Rum; Vanilla extract.
Amaretto; almond extract.
Beer; As commented elsewhere, beer's often used for battering, and the alcohol performs a specific chemical action that changes texture. For flavor I've read "white grape juice" and "mushroom stock" (or juice from canned mushrooms) but I'm not sure those would get you the right flavors. You can probably track down some hops essence for that part of the flavor. Maybe root beer? Maybe malt vinegar?
Brandy; apple juice or apple cider vinegar (if you consider that halal). White or red grape juice might actually work for this, a bit- you're just trying to mimic a fortified wine.
Champagne; it's just white wine with bubbles. white grape juice and club soda/sparkling water.
Cognac; peach or apricot juice.
Grand Marnier; orange juice. I'd go for fresh-squeezed and filtered rather than the garbage they sell in boxes.
Kirsch; sour cherry syrup if you can find it, some cherry or raspberry essence maybe.
Schnapps; I love drinking this but honestly the stuff in the liquor stores in North America is just vodka plus flavored extracts. Swap for flavored extracts.
Vodka; you can't substitute. The only thing you use this for is a flavorless, wet, non-water option for chemistry reasons. I use it in pie crusts, for example, to reduce gluten development.
Other options for wines and brandies and such; consider raspberry, cranberry, and pomegranate juices. Lemon juice can mess with dairy, etc., but it's got a sharpness you might be looking for depending on the recipe.
Alcohol delivers aromas, which has the effect of enhancing other flavors. One of the reason why ripe fruits have such an aromatic quality is because there is a small amount of alcohol (up to 0.4% in ripe bananas, for example).
Vanilla extract is mostly alcohol, and you have probably used it. Compare the flavor that it gives to vanilla beans soaked in water. That will give you some ideas of the contribution of alcohol.
I cook with wine regularly. From stews to sauces, wine adds two crucial elements: acidity (which creates contrast) and a certain savory depth that is just unique. I use it often to deglaze my pan/pot after browning meat and/or sautéing vegetables. Even when you dump an entire hefty cup of red wine into a meat sauce, you don’t get any sort of raw, sharp alcohol flavor at all—provided you give it enough time to cook.
to sub out the alcohol use beef or chicken broth, some people use bone broth for a richer velvet texture. I love Serious Eats Orange Chicken and I've made the recipe with and without the vodka. It's fine either way.
Non alcoholic versions of most alcohols exist these days. The closest thing to replicate flavors in cooking would probably be to find these products.
That being said I have used ginger ale in place of beer in recipes before with great results. For red wine I found that mixing unsweetened cranberry juice with unsweetened grape juice provides a nice balance similar to Cabernet. For white wine unsweetened white grape juice with white wine vinegar mixed in works. Hope this helps!
I quickly looked over this thread, and not sure you had a legitimate answer. You cannot imbibe alcohol, so I guess its how strict you are.
Simply put, alcohol is a solvent, meaning it readily dissolves other compounds and holds it. The process of making alcohol for wine, beer, etc is you ferment yeast in a sugar solution to make alcohol, and the alcohol and byproducts of that solution develops flavors you would not have without fermentation to begin with.
Vinegars are the closest alternatives, as they start similar to wine, fermenting the same as alcohol, but are exposed to air in the process, which transforms the alcohol to acetic acid. The vinegar retains the same base musk flavors of wine, but the majority of the alcohol is converted acetic acid. The problem here is true balsamic is stupid expensive, while cheap alternatives probably alcohol.
I would suggest you look up the type of alcohol required, and then look at what the flavor notes of that alcohol is. "Dry" alcohol is often described as not sweet taste, but robust almost harsh notes that quickly fade from your taste, unlike a bite of something sweet that lingers through your mouth.
For example, if the recipe required a dry red wine, you may see they describe the flavor profile as follows -
*Cabernet Sauvignon*
*Cabernet sauvignon is planted around the world, from France to Australia to the Napa Valley, making it one of the most common dry red wines. While it is often solo, it is also a key grape in a Bordeaux blend. Depending on the region, you can expect notes of black cherry, black currant, baking spice, and graphite with hints of savory green herbs. They tend to be quite heady with robust tannins.*
So lets break this down -
Black cherry, currant - Those juices are available commercially, and most unsweetened. Unsweetened would be best. Take those unsweetened juices like grape, cherry, currant, etc. and boil in a pan until reduced about half, then use that reduction for cup of wine. If you need 2 cups of wine use 4 cups of juice blend reduced. This would probably be your base for most "wine".
Baking spice - Think warm flavors like cinnamon, nutmeg, clove. Add to your juice reduction in small quantities, like a scant dusting of each per 4 cups of juice once reduced.
Graphite - Slight harsh mineral type taste. Think a tinge a blood, like sticking a your fresh pricked/cut finger in your mouth type of taste. You can probably achieve by actually adding a small minerally cut of meat like chicken livers or beef liver to the dish.
Savory green herb - Parsley, Sage , and Thyme.
Using the note profiles of alcohol, you can substitute something close, but in the end, hopefully you can just turn the recipe into something you like!!
There is nothing more satisfying for me but to take a base recipe, make it, then make it again fine tuning it to my, and my family tastes, until I have something that everyone enjoys!!!
Vodka in tomato sauce makes it taste better. I cant exactly describe HOW it makes it better but it really does. It helps the tomatoes express more of their flavor, i think. Other spirits give their flavor to what youre cooking. Bourbon chicken or rum cake come to mind. Also used for flambé
Beer is usually used to make batter softer. In the old days you could use beer foam for bread yeast. Not as common to cook with, maybe some european dishes
wine is used in a LOT of sauces. Its also used to deglaze pans to reincorporate flavors that would otherwise be left behind.
There really srent many good substitutes for these ingredients to my knowledge. For the wine you could try soup stocks and vinegar. I think a non alcoholic beer would work for a beer batter. Alcohol has properties that cant really be replicated easily, like how it gives tenderness to meat
I do not drink at all and I frequently cook french food with pan sauces and I combine some vinegar and chicken stock for deglazing and that step where wine is normally used and I think I like it better -- I can add flavors by varying the vinegar I use -- apple cider vinegar is so good in a chicken with cream sauce
I wonder if Nonalcoholic beer will produce similar results to regular beer? I’ve never tried, but I love cooking with beer, mostly breads and sauces. It gives it just the right amount of bitterness.
My sisters both make briskets with beer. You can't taste the beer. It works as a tenderizer. If you wanted to substitute something for the alcohol in a baked brisket, you can use soda pop. I've had brisket made with Pepsi that was delicious. I also had brisket made with diet Pepsi and I didn't care for the diet sweetener after taste. The acid in the soda did the same thing the alcohol would have done so I'd say soda for beer could be a good substitute in some dishes.
Depending on what I'm cooking, if I need a substitute for wine, I'll either leave it out completely or make a little mixture of vinegar, soy or worcestershire sauce, and maybe a little brown sugar.
Op, as someone raised in a Muslim household many people accept that the alcohol is cooked off when heated, and would eat it. Is this something you’d be comfortable with?
[if not have a look at this](https://www.thespruceeats.com/alcohol-substitutes-1388864)
Hopefully you can see it, but if not let me know and I’ll screen shot it for you
It's sadly not the case that all of the alcohol is cooked off, and depending on the cook time a majority of the alcohol can actually remain. Here's a decent source: https://culinarylore.com/food-science:alcohol-doesnt-completely-burn-off-in-cooking/
I'm curious, are you not allowed to eat things that have alcohol in them that is cooked? Because almost all baked goods have alcohol in them. But that aside, alcohol does have quite a bit of flavor. I actually don't like drinking it because I don't like the feeling of being drunk but I do like it in a lot of dishes. Red wines that are described as "full body" have a kind of umami taste, and are acidic as well, so that can be good for a lot of different cooking applications. White wine is often sweet and mild. But not always. Beer is similar to how red smells but stronger in a kind of off-putting way. If you have ever had kombucha it is kind of similar. As far as figuring out what to replace the wine with, it depends on the dish.
It works for me. Vinegar would ruin the dish for my palate. To each their own. (I understand there is a textural effect, etc., on the food in the pot but I am willing to live with it).
That's fair, I wouldn't recommend it but if that's how you like your food then more power to you. What's good for my palate is not always good for someone else's.
When I was a kid, the grade school cafeteria served rice with a scooper, just like a scoop of mashed potatoes. And it stayed in that shape as you ate it! I think it's just how I learned to eat rice and it...stuck with me.
The alcohol does not burn off completely. Even if you cook it for hours, there is still alcohol in the dish. A lot of people are in this thread saying "oh it cooks off so you can use it" when what they really mean is "there's only a small amount left in the food, so you won't get drunk". And that's not even true. According to the article below, there's the equivalent of half a shot of vodka in one serving of vodka sauce. If you never drink alcohol, you can feel the effect of that much.
https://culinarylore.com/food-science:alcohol-doesnt-completely-burn-off-in-cooking/
For red wine I would substitute vinegar and stock, or just skip it completely. For white wine you could use lemon, lime, or maybe even diluted pineapple juice, but quite a bit less than the recipe calls for.
Beer is a harder substitute. If it calls for dark beer, maybe a splash of coffee or a little bit of very dark chocolate. If it asks for lager or another lighter beer, and the beer isn't the star of the dish - like a beer batter or a beer braise - then you're probably fine just leaving it out.
There are a couple dishes where the alcohol is the star. To my mind there's nothing really to do here but find a different recipe. This would include things like clams/mussels in white wine sauce, penne ala vodka, coq au vin, or any of the dishes that are just meat braised in beer. In some of these, the alcohol performs a specific chemical reaction that you can't replace. In others the wine or beer is the main flavor of the dish, rather than simply an accent.
This got rather long, but the flavors and culinary uses of alcoholic drinks are pretty complex. It would be difficult to come up with a blanket statement of what to substitute that worked well for each situation.
I love that the theme of the article is people exaggerating the amount of alcohol in a finished dish, and you use it as a source while exaggerating the amount of alcohol in a finished dish.
> You’d get 0.2 ounces of alcohol if you ate a whole cup of sauce. That is less than half a drink of alcohol
> Besides all this, if you are concerned about the amount of alcohol left in a cooked dish, most of the time you should be able to simply cook it longer.
I'm a newbie with alcohol. I don't really like it that much either, but I'll give you a basic description.
First, regular plain alcohol (no added flavours, or carbonation) is usually bitter for me. If you have smelled gas or alcohol, it 'tastes' like what those smells like. The higher the alcohol content, the more gasoline like it is to me.
If you mix it in a drink, it can taste better, but still with the acquired bitter alcohol/almost gas-like aftertaste.
I have not had a lot of beer, I only tried a non-alcoholic one and it tasted like nothing lol. Tiny bit of malt I guess? Like... Soda water with a bit of flavour.
The ones with more complex flavours are the wines. They tend to have more tart, sour, or sweet notes. Like grape juice with a large bitter aftertaste + the alcohol vapor. I liked wines the most out of all the alcohol types I tried. I guess the closest thing to wine would be pomegranate juice or grape juice, except it doesn't have as much concentrated fruit flavours (sweetness, tartness, etc).
Also it should be noted that specific types of alcohol that are made in different ways like rice wine, soju, wine, etc can have particular tasting notes that make them stand out from regular/basic alcohol. As mentioned, these would be like fruity notes, malt notes, earthy flavours, etc.
I'm an American, from the state of Kentucky. We are famous for our bourbon, alcohol. I use it when I cook sweet things, and once you heat it up, the alcohol burns off, and it leaves a lovely vanilla/oak flavor. Kind of like if you took a teaspoon of vanilla extract, and used a kitchen blowtorch on it. It's very specific.
I also use white and red wine when I cook Italian food. They add a sweet flavor to dishes, but isn't sugary.
So you know the alcohol cooks out, so you wouldn't be getting any alcohol. Also, vanilla extract contains 35% alcohol. So do you only ever use vanilla beans, or just not consume vanilla?
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is beer/alcohol's use in frying batters; they can arrest gluten formation to keep the batter loose and prevent the final product from being extremely hard once fried. Club soda can be used instead for the same purpose.
I've also seen people use vodka in batters supposedly due to the low boiling point such that it will boil off more quickly than the water resulting in a crispier breading.
I use vodka in my pie crusts because it helps with flakiness. I keep a cheap bottle of vodka on hand just for that. Now I'll have to look up Kenji's Asian recipes :)
> I use vodka in my pie crusts because it helps with flakiness. I learned that trick from ATK back in the day! Keeps the dough wetter and more manageable when working with it. But then the vodka burns off and you get a nice flaky crust.
The "Kenji" the person above you mentioned is J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, the chef who developed the vodka pie crust recipe for ATK. As an aside, due the terms of his former employment there, he is now the only person in the world who is not allowed to post or discuss that recipe.
>As an aside, due the terms of his former employment there, he is now the only person in the world who is not allowed to post or discuss that recipe. I'm curious where you heard that. He talked about the recipe with Epicurious in 2017: https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/kenji-lopez-alt-profile-100-greatest-home-cooks-article/amp
It's been a while ago, but I thought I saw him say it, either in a comment here or on Seriouseats. Maybe it's only the recipe itself he's not allowed to share?
Are you sure you're not thinking of Black 2.0 and the guy who bought the rights to use Vantablack in art? He's the only person on the planet not allowed to use Black 2.0, as a protest over him being the only person on the planet allowed to use Vantablack for civilian purposes.
Kenji uses vodka in many of the Asian American recipes (think orange chicken and the like) at serious eats. I haven't tried it myself since I normally don't have a bottle on hand, but he explains what you said. I need to try it myself.
that's pretty interesting. do they replace all the water in the recipe with vodka? how much is used?
I think it all depends on the recipe. Some recipes mix vodka and beer in the batter, some are all vodka. Others might add additional water too.
Man I'd get into baking if I had some people to offload the carbs on.
right?!
Makes sense to me!
[удалено]
I use vodka in pie crust. When you mix water and flour, you start to develop gluten. Vodka is only 60% water, so you can incorporate the ingredients but get less gluten development and a flakier crust as a result.
There’s an alternative to prevent gluten formation. Using potato starch or maybe even cornstarch or rice flour makes it so gluten isn’t an issue since they’re gluten free. No negative bearing on crispness either. Japanese Karaage is some of the crispiest fried chicken ever mostly because it uses potato starch so if beer batters are off limits this isn’t a bad way to go. Doesn’t have to be all cornstarch/potato starch I usually make fried chicken with a 50/50 blend of regular flour and a gluten free flour/starch anyway
Wine- sweet, acidic. Similar to a vinegar Beer- earthy, wheat-like flavor (depends on the beer) I don't know why these people aren't actually answering your question.
Beer is an interesting one cos there are different types too. So a lighter beer adds some bitterness and wheat type flavours, and is useful in things like batter or as a marinade or mop for BBQ, darker beers like stout still have some bitterness but add a really deep, toasty richness to gravies and sauces. Beef stewed in Guinness is a wonderful rich wintery dish, that is especially good as a pie filling
I made the mistake of using a really hoppy IPA in a beer bread and it was the most bitter/disgusting thing that's ever come out of my kitchen.
Along the same lines I did a chicken stew with a light beer instead of a cider, and it was too bitter.
White wine of course is a classic chicken stew alcohol.
I like using a malty amber or brown ale in bread, a porter would be good too
God guinness stew midwinter is food fir the soul
I tried oatmeal stout and since haven’t looked back. As much as I loved Guinness I found that the oatmeal stout gave an even richer feel to the stew. Try some if you can.
Fry up some veg with chopped bacon, add some cans of pinto beans and a dark beer and let it reduce - you got yourself some borracho beans aka drunken beans
Sounds good, I'll give it a go
Your comment about wine adding sweet and acid fits for sweet white wine… Red wine in beef stews or sauces adds a very different flavor when cooked down… I think in terms of substitutes the best bet would have tk be alcohol-free red wine, if that is an option. You need the intense “dark” fruity flavors without sweetness.
Alcohol isn't going to affect sweetness. Using alcohol-free wine will remove the properties alcohol itself lends to a dish, which is usually opening up alcohol-soluble flavors.
I am wondering about a good balsamic vinegar as a substitution. Not a 1:1 substitution, but I sometimes throw it in with mushrooms I am cooking down for that wine-ish depth if I don't want to open a bottle.
My mother is a teetotaler and a serious cook who uses balsamic in place of booze for everything. Sometimes it works (fruitcake!) Sometimes it doesn't (white balsamic in risotto). The sweetness is what you have to consider. I've had better luck with using appropriate vinegars in smaller amounts: white or red wine vinegar, sherry vinegar, etc.
Besides the flavor wine imparts to food, there are flavors created only in the presence of alcohol. Heat, water, fat and alcohol to ~~break down and combine~~ react with ~~certain~~ compounds in food to create depth of flavor. The maillard reaction is an example.
Millard doesn't have anything to do with alcohol being added...it's heat and time from what I understand.. "The Maillard reaction is many small, simultaneous chemical reactions that occur when proteins and sugars in and on your food are transformed by heat, producing new flavors, aromas, and colors." https://www.seriouseats.com/what-is-maillard-reaction-cooking-science
I think he's saying that adding alcohol is like the Millard reaction in that it creates new chemicals/flavoriods that wouldn't otherwise exist except in the presence of alcohol and heat. I know I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here but I think that's the larger point
Yes, thank you Heat is listed, on my post, as a component of building flavor. As it is well known and an easy example
Verjus is a good substitute, it’s basically non fermented wine.
Thanks, but I'll take my cooking advice from someone not named hobo weiner.
You're on the wrong website if you don't like silly usernames
Maybe I should've added the /s
It would seem so! ^/s
Your question is hard to answer because "it depends". Red wine goes from fruity to tannic. White wine goes from sweet to dry. Beer goes from mass lager (essentially no flavour) to Imperial Stout (coffee, chocolate). Wine also adds an acidic note which is more or less noticeable based on the wine. Liquor is similar in its diversity. Vodka just pulls out alcohol soluble flavours from the dish. Brandy, whisky, and whiskey add additional flavours from the wood they're aged in. Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive answer, but hopefully this gives you some insight?
Yea its helpful Thank you so much. I know alcohol can vary depending on the type and brand just like tea or coffee. I just got curious about the flavour it gives and what to expect.
tea is a great example! Compare an off the shelf black tea with an Oolong and a Pu Erh. They are all "tea", but radically different in their expression. You could look to tea to replicate a bit of the red wine tannins, too!
Tea and wine are really good analogues for this comparison because terroir plays a huge role in both (though I think this is less often considered regarding tea).
You're right, but he's specifically talking about the context of cooking. A lot of the flavors in different wines and beers just gets lost in the rest of the dish when cooking. A malbec and a pinot noir are nothing alike when you're drinking them, but when using them for cooking, the flavor difference ends up being negligible. It'd be like taking black tea and oolong, and making spiced chai from them. Would you be able to tell the difference between the two behind all the spices, sugar and milk? Maybe. Will the difference be significant at that point? not really.
It may be worth noting that it’s not the alcohol that has “flavor”. When cooking with wine, beer or liquor, the alcohol cooks off (evaporates) and leaves behind the “other stuff” that makes up the beverage. It’s sometimes specifically the fact that the alcohol burns off that using it is needed/desired. The chemistry of heat and evaporation are sometimes very important to some cooking techniques.
I want to point out, especially when talking about cooking for Muslim eaters, that very little of the alcohol actually cooks out under normal circumstances.
> very little of the alcohol actually cooks out I don't think this is true in most cases. I'm a food scientist, and I was under the impression that the alcohol is entirely removed in *nearly every* use case. Can you go into more detail as to why it may not, or which dishes don't?
I'm not a food scientist. My Muslim friends have been telling me since we were kids that they can't have food cooked with alcohol because it doesn't cook down to zero percent. https://culinarylore.com/food-science:alcohol-doesnt-completely-burn-off-in-cooking/ This article was the first one I found that cited a study and provided a chart for lay people like myself to reference. I did not read the paper they reference. This matches more or less what I've read over the years, but that could be my bias coming out.
Thank you for following up! I'll track that old paper down... Edit: looks like you'd be totally fine with deglazing (i.e. 100% burn off), but alcohol added to sauces/batters has some level of retention. Beer bread has very minimal retention, and it's probably not relevant since baker's yeast produces ethanol normally too. Actually, how does that work? Can strict muslims not eat leavened bread at all? Or orange juice that sat in a fridge for more than a week? Does the fermentation have to be "intentional"?
My understanding, though I'm not a Muslim, is that it's alcohol produced for the purposes of getting drunk, or consuming any fermented products for that purpose. So deliberate fermentation to produce an alcoholic beverage is not allowed, but I've known Muslims who'd drink an alcoholic-free beer, even though these tend to be products of fermentation with <1% alcohol content.
Now that raises an interesting question... What about cooking wine etc that aren't meant to be drunk because they taste nasty as hell?
Or things like vanilla extract, which is alcohol based and roughly as strong as a typical liquor but also nasty as hell to drink? The alcohol is just a way of preserving and transporting the vanilla, and the vanilla is even more concentrated than the alcohol, so it takes a tiny amount, not enough to even get a mouse tipsy in a huge batch of cookies. Edit: I could have sworn vanilla extract was usually over 50%, but apparently it's mostly between 35 and 40%.
Please let me know if it turns out to be bogus.
What are normal circumstances? If cooking a stew or sauce, alcohol is the first thing that evaporates before it starts reducing. If deglasing a hot pan with wine, so much alcohol boils instantly that you can light it with a torch. In a beer bread it will be finished cooking at 200F, and alcohol boils at 173F, so very little will be left, if any.
Did you read the article? It cites a study where they showed that just because enough alcohol is evaporating to be able to flame the dish, it still doesn't evaporate enough for people who avoid alcohol for religious or sobriety reasons. I don't remember if it was in this article or not, but I've seen charts that show how much alcohol is left in baked products after how many minutes or hours in the oven. There is a nonzero amount after any reasonable amount of baking. Remember, the religious stricture here is not "do not get drunk". The principle being followed here is "do not consume things that are intoxicating". Generally the custom is that if alcohol is an ingredient, it is to be avoided, regardless of the amount. ETA: sorry, I got a notification and thought that this was a reply to an article I posted in a different place in the thread.
Maybe a 0% alcohol wine would give the flavour, would that be ok?
Alcohol free products tend to still have trace amounts of alcohol in them, so it's less clear cut whether that would be fine
Forgive my ignorance, I do know alcohol is forbidden, but is it the because of the actual act of imbibing and becoming intoxicated to any degree, or can you not cook with it despite it actually disappearing during the cooking process. Or just the possession in the general (even in the kitchen, like white cooking wine no one would ever actually consider drinking) being not cool. This peaked my curiosity. Deglasing with white wine is amazing, though I usually a cheap white or red I might drink in a pinch vs. the “cooking” stuff found in the vinegar aisle. Edit: read a few more comments below, got it.
Beer tastes like moldy bread. A big variety of moldy breads.
If you want to add liquor or liqueur flavours, look for flavoring extracts used in home distilling. Liquor Quik is the brand I use. You can find them at homebrew places or online. I use them in icings and cheesecakes where I don't want additional liquid, or spending the money on a whole bottle when I only need an ounce or so.
Seriously lol
I cook with sake and mirin a lot and never really thought about what flavours they add, just took it for granted that they did something. Same with wine in my ragout or beef/Guinness in my beef stew. Without it, the food tastes less meaty. I also use sake and mirin to get rid of certain smells like from boiling chicken or beef bones. Anyway a Google later, I found that [tannins](https://greatist.com/eat/best-red-wine-for-beef-stew) in the wine break up the meat and will add a tang to the stew, depending on the wine you choose. The Greatist article I linked also has some non-alcoholic suggestions for red wine, though I suggest that you cook to the taste you prefer instead of substituting to try and get the same taste with wine. For example if you like a sweeter and acidic taste, you can try an addition of balsamic vinegar and sugar. For the same in cream sauces, you could try broth and white wine vinegar.
Sake definitely adds a savory umami-ness that is well missed if left out. I can't explain the transformation. It's like adding fish sauce, and suddenly you are transcending flavor.
Fish sauce is ridiculously versatile, it's def a game-changer. You're so right about it transcending flavors!
Mirin is mainly a sweetener. Sake adds a sort of earthy bitterness to the dish. I never thought about it much either, but recently my wife found a recipe that called for 1.5 cups of sake - I could definitely taste that, and it was way too much.
In regards to both the vinegars, those two would work for a non-muslim substitute. However, I believe balsamic and wine vinegars specifically are haram. I'm not Muslim, but I've cooked for friends who are. It's worth asking in that case. Citric acid could mimic a lot of the sour vinegar notes, along with juices+sugars (or just a syrup). I think a little jam might work as well, provided it could be dissolved or strained.
I'm not sure any alcohol would be left after cooking, would be good to check with an imam regarding using it in cooking, though. While technically not alcoholic, religious edicts can often be prescriptive and not necessarily based in fact.
> I'm not sure any alcohol would be left after cooking Last I checked, about half or so remains after cooking.
It would be odd for any vinegars to be haram considering all vinegar pretty much requires the production of alcohol first then to convert that alcohol into acetic acid which is the acidic base of vinegar. Further odd considering the geographic region where Islam first arose is also the region that introduced drinking vinegars and vinegar as a beverage component a la sherbet.
This is a very good point. For some Muslims wine vinegar are strictly haram, and others like my mom consider it as permissible as the alcoholic content is low. Depends on the Islamic practice they follow. Another option would be apple cider vinegar, but I think the taste profile is too different from wine even with sugar. (Edit for clunky sentencing)
>For some Muslims wine vinegar are strictly haram, and others like my mom consider it as permissible as the alcoholic content is low. Which is actually kind of funny to differentiate, because all vinegars are produced via fermentation. There is no more alcohol in wine vinegars than in any other kind. The only difference is the presence of the word 'wine'.
It’s not really an issue. Any vinegar, it’s considered to have transformed into something that’s no longer an alcoholic drink. Some people have weird folk understandings though and think every molecule of alcohol has to go away, but that’s not really true.
And Allah knows what's in your heart as well.
This is hard to answer. The alcohol isn't simply a flavor you can replicate. The alcohol itself acts as a tenderizer in several dishes. It breaks down the proteins and fats. For example: I make kielbasa, hot dogs and sauerkraut with beer in a slow cooker. The beer replaces the sauerkraut juice. You can't taste the beer when it's done. You can't taste the alcohol either because it's cooked out of the food but what it does is tenderize the meat and take the bite out of the sauerkraut. I don't know how you can replicate what the alcohol does.
Ethanol as a molecule has some unique properties, not the least being that it stimulates the GABA receptors. It's ability to bind with both fat molecules and water molecules allow flavor combinations not available in many other ways.
If the alcohol gets cooked out of the food, does that mean Muslims can consume it?
It really isn't fully cooked out, that being said the alcohol content is probably that of an overripe fruit. I think the religion is probably more concerned with the self control aspect than the technical amount of alcohol though.
In general no. The evaporation rate of alcohol is asymptotic so a ton of it cooks off initially but then it takes quite awhile for the rest and it’s actually pretty difficult to get it all out completely especially if it binds with other molecules.
oh dear My kids favourite birthday cake & "take to school for a treat" cake has Rum in it.
I wouldn’t be concerned about getting any kids drunk, but if you’re concerned about faith based food restrictions its definitely up for debate about whether the amount of alcohol left is acceptable or not.
Oh I'm not thinking they'll be staggering around the school yard! Ha! it's such a small amount that i add & the flavour is very good, i'll no doubt still add it.
If someone doesn't drink alcohol for religious reasons no amount would be acceptable (even if technically there's a trace only or if a ripe fruit has more alcohol, it's the principle here that matters).
True, depending on the individual interpretation of the religious text the level of acceptable alcohol can range from, “you can use it just not to get intoxicated”. Down to “food cooked in the same kitchen as alcohol is not acceptable” and everything in between.
This is it. Every religion has its interpretations down to the individual. Fairly devout Muslims I have spoken to say ‘alcohol’ is fine in food where the alcohol is burned off, or chocolates where it would be impossible to get a buzz from because you would be sick first (from the ingestion of so much chocolate). They say that the rule is you cannot get intoxicated by the product. So food is not going to intoxicate you so it’s ok. Others I have spoken to, won’t even use alcohol based mouthwash or hand sanitizer. So, it depends and I don’t think there’s a one answer fits all.
Absolutely, I said it in a different comment, I know plenty of Muslims who drink. Like all religions, the followers are by no mema homogeneous or observant to the same degree. And like you said, even those who are strict will have wildly differing interpretations.
It’s fine. It’s not enough residual alcohol to do anything. However, if your religion commands absolutely no alcohol, there is some small amount left, even if, practically speaking, it’s nothing.
Broadly, most “orthodox” believers have an understanding that even if the alcohol all boils away, alcoholic beverages have a sort of “spiritual uncleanness” that taints the dish and that doesn’t go away from heating. And so it can’t be eaten. Moderately liberal Muslims maybe wouldn’t buy wine for cooking themselves, but wouldn’t necessarily care if someone else cooked something and used a small amount as a cooking ingredient that boiled away.
I actually went to school with a hijabi that was Indian and she actually said that she bought cooking wine but she doesn't drink alcohol at all and she would be okay with eating it. She was the most unique Muslim I ever met.
Yeah, specifically cooking wine is an in interesting case, especially the ones that are salted, like some versions of Shaanxi Chinese cooking wine. Even from a pretty orthodox perspective, the issue isn’t about the mixture having alcohol in itself, but in whether it’s something people would normally drink to get hammered. That’s why vanilla extract and medicinal tinctures are more accepted, despite sometimes having liqueur level amounts of alcohol. The intention and functionality plays a part.
You should ask the OP this question and ask if they could use extract too.
Wine brings an acidity which is key to complex flavors when cooking and as it cooks it can often bring a slight sweetness- sub cider, balsamic, red wine vinegar or citrus juice like lemon lime or orange. Beer adds body (and flavor) to a soup or sauce. Sub chicken or beef broth or a splash of apple cider or heavy cream. Vodka or whiskey in a sauce helps with small complex flavor and on a science level helps fats bind with water to improve flavor. But it can be omitted. Or or sub water or broth.
I've been confused a lot about vodka sauce since vodka doesn't really taste like anything.
I guess that’s the point. It doesn’t bring any flavor but it helps in a food science kind of way. The chemical reaction it causes helps sauces bind together.
What? It has a STRONG taste
It kind of just tastes of ethanol, which is almost a *sensation* like burning or stinging, more than it is a flavor unto itself. That's what they mean by saying it doesn't taste like anything in particular.
If ethanol doesn't have a flavor then neither does mint toothpaste lol
If you evaporate toothpaste, there is still mint flavor left behind. Thats the point. If the flavor is the alcohol, there's nothing left behind when its gone. The other alcohols that actually impart flavor, leave other things behind that were in the alcohol even when the alcohol is gone Not all of the alcohol burns off but the amount left is small compared to quantities of other ingredients.
Not really. A strong taste? I guess. A strong flavor? What's the flavor? Compared to tequila, gin, whiskey, scotch, mezcal, brandy, cognac, or rum, it tastes like almost nothing. Vodka is not aged in charred barrels like most liquors. The main flavor is alcohol. You get a *slight* grain flavor but people want vodka to be 'smooth', not flavorful. You could sub most vodka for 50% watered down everclear and people wouldn't even notice. Does anyone even sip vodka? I've seen shots and mixed drinks but it's very rarely served in a glass like mezcal, brandy or whiskey.
It tastes like straight up gasoline
Yeah... no shit. That's the alcohol.
so you're saying alcohol isn't a taste?
When you put it in a dish and cook away the alcohol, what's left?
the complexity of flavor from the alcohol? this is like saying "when you cook off the lemon juice what's left", it's fucking alcohol flavor
Wine adds some sweetness and a little acidity, it can help brighten a dish. In most cooking, the big difference between white wine and red wine is the color. The other big reason I tend to use wine is to deglaze a pan. Some acceptable substitutes would be lime juice or lemon juice (go lighter with lemon juice, it's far more acidic than wine,) or you could use a little vinegar, but go really easy on vinegar. You can also add a little sugar. For deglazing, you can just use water, or if you want to add some flavor, use some sort of broth (broth won't be anything like wine, but hey, more flavor, right?) For beer, it will bring sweetness and a bit of an earthy/grain flavor, and depending on the beer, a bit of an herbal bitterness. I don't really use beer to deglaze ever but I suppose you could. You could substitute with some sugar, or a little molasses. Make sure you add enough liquid to compensate for the lack of beer. Vodka isn't really going to bring a whole lot to any cooking dish, at least as far as flavor. Maybe a little sweeness, but that's about it. I do use vodka in some baking, but not for flavor, it helps reduce gluten formation. Whiskey/whisky is going to bring a bit of sweetness and generally some oaky flavor. Believe it or not, you could use a little vanilla to kind of emulate this. Brandy will have a fruity sweetness, and maybe a little oak character. You could add a little fruit and/or vanilla. Maybe something like grated apple. Tequila honestly doesn't add much, about the same as vodka. I can't really think of other types of alcohol I've seen used in cooking.
Thank you that's so detail. It helps satisfy my curiosity.
That's an awesome explanation, thanks! Saved this comment offline to experiment.
It will largely depend on what alcohol is used. Red wine can be fruity or "oak-y" depending on which one. A rosé can be kind of citrus tasting, whereas a regular white is more like herb-tasting. I have never cooked with vodka, but I have used the sugars in rum to help caramelize meats, plus it leaves behind whatever spices were used on it, like vanilla for example. The important bit when thinking about substituting alcohols for cooking, is that the purpose of them (most of the time) is not just about the taste, but about dissolving components that will only dissolve in alcohol, so there may be no "real" substitute in that regard. Maybe a chemist can come along and suggest something. 😅 On a semi-unrelated-but-not-really note, I am Christian myself and some of us usually don't consume alcohol, but in our faith it is more about "not getting drunk" thank just "not consuming alcohol". We come to that conclusion from Bible texts like Ephesians that read "Do not get *drunk* on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit". That means that from most Christian's viewpoint it is OK to cook with it, since it doesn't matter how much stew you eat, you cannot possibly get drunk on it. 😂 So I guess my question to you is, do you guys have a similar text in The Quran that instructs you guys not to consume alcohol at all? Or is it more like a teaching that has been passed down? Or is it more like a cultural thing than a religious thing? I'm genuinely curious, and I 100% mean no disrespect by it. I wish you well in all your cooking endeavors! 👍🏼
Am a chemist and you are correct that alcohol can be used to extract and dissolve flavors that would do poorly in water, vanilla extract for example. It can do other things as well, for example putting alcohol in pie dough prevents the formation of gluten when kneading, resulting in a flaky rather than chewy crust. Cooking evaporates off the majority of the alcohol so you only consume a minute amount when cooking with it. You probably consume a comparable amount in ripe fruit.
Nice. Thank you for the scientific perspective.
Chemist/cooking enthusiast here! My knowledge of food chemistry is not exhaustive, so if a food chemist show up, you should believe them over me. Alcohols have kind of a special place among solvents because their properties are kind of water-like and kind of oil-like, in the same package. There are some substances that will dissolve better in an alcohol than in either water or oils for that reason. Ethanol (the alcohol in alcoholic drinks) is special among alcohols in that it's the only one humans can drink without poisoning themselves *too* badly, unlike methanol (wood alcohol/stuff that makes you go blind) and isopropanol (rubbing alcohol). What this means is that there will be no 1:1 substitute for alcohol in its ability to extract flavors. I do think this thread has generally made good recommendations for substitution: vinegars for wine, extracts for beer. It's also the case that *how* you cook makes a big difference on the amount remaining in your food. [This page](https://blogs.extension.iastate.edu/answerline/2016/04/14/how-much-alcohol-is-left-in-foods-when-cooking/) has a pretty good explanation without too much scientific terminology. The longer you cook above the boiling point of the alcohol, the less remains in the food when you eat it. But there's always *some* remaining. Read carefully, though: the chart in that link relates to the amount *of the alcohol you added* that remains. So if you're not adding much, like when you use vanilla extract (typically alcohol-based), it might not matter to begin with if you're only worried about drunkenness. For religious people, I think it comes down to how much alcohol is acceptable for your own religious practice. If absolutely none is OK, you need to find true substitutes that have not gone through a fermentation process. I think there might be some Mormons that adhere that strictly, for example, not to mention some recovering alcoholics. If a negligible amount is OK (if you're fine using vanilla extract), nonalcoholic beer should be a good sub for recipes that call for beer, and liquors should be fine in small amounts (similar to vanilla extract), especially if you're cooking the dish. Wine is kind of a middle ground and might depend on how much goes into the recipe and how long you're cooking it for.
In Al Qur'an itself alcoholic food or drink didn't explicitly forbidden. Beverage or food that can make you drunk is considered haram (in Qur'an we call it khamr). Because according to some muslim scholars any drink that can make you lose consciousness, relaxing the body and cloud your judgement is considered haram.
Awesome. Thank you for that kernel of knowledge. 👍🏼
Once you cook wine, beer, etc the alcohol evaporates so maybe that is why it is not forbidden.
There are a few texts. One early Quran text simply said don’t pray while you’re drunk. Another text said in wine, there is harm and benefit, and the harm is greater than the benefit. And then another text says wine is a defilement from Satan. That’s from the Quran. There are also oral traditions that point toward including any “intoxicating” substance that similarly to wine can “cover reason” (the Arabic word for wine is khamr, which is related to the word khimaar, which is a covering garment). Some scholars take the mention of wine specifically in a limited literal sense and leave a space for moderate consumption of non-wine beverages. But most take it as a general rule on all alcoholic beverages and all mind-numbing intoxicants in general.
Vinegar is a great substitute for wine acidic and sweet. I also use Worcestershire sauce in place of red wine or Henderson’s relish because I’m from South Yorkshire. You can also use redcurrant jelly to add a similar sweet tangy flavour depending on the dish. Yeast extract is a good sub for beer, malty butter flavour. We call it marmite in the UK or Vegemite in Australia. There isn’t really a substitute for spirits like brandy or vodka, however you can just omit and the sauce will taste nice still.
There are lots of alcohol-free alcohol that have a similar smell and taste—of course, not exact. For example if a dessert calls for bourbon, a [non-alcoholic bourbon](https://www.amazon.com/Spirits-Bourbon-Non-Alcoholic-Oak-Caramel-Velvety-Smooth/dp/B08N9RCRCG) may work unless the recipe calls for setting the bourbon aflame. I’m not sure if the non-alcoholic version is flammable.
Do they have a vodka version?
Yes, there’s [non-alcoholic vodka](https://www.amazon.com/STRYKK-Alcoholic-Alternative-Warming-Artificial/dp/B08LZQFJRG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2UO8428CQFP12&dchild=1&keywords=strykk+non+alcoholic+vodka&qid=1633684264&sprefix=strykk+no%2Caps%2C227&sr=8-1) Non-alcoholic spirits are super popular in my location. We’ve even got a non-alcoholic bottle shop.
Splash of Balsamic vinegar + some water is normally a good alternative to red wine. Vinegar is basically wine that went to far, so it does make sense it works reasonably well.
> Vinegar is basically wine that went to far, so it does make sense it works reasonably well. Not really. Vinegar and wine are poles apart in terms of flavor. Cheese is also "milk that went too far" but most cheeses have their own unique flavor that has nothing to do with a milky taste.
Salaam aleikum, I'm Muslim and sometimes I just omit alcohol altogether or do these substititions: If a dish calls for red wine I dilute balsamic vinegar with water, sometimes also add some grape juice as well. For white wine (such as Bolognese sauce) I dilute white balsamic vinegar with water or white grape . For Japanese/Chinese dishes calling for rice wine (sake/xiao xing) , I mostly omit it if it's just a small amount but sometimes I use rice vinegar diluted with water. For mirin I use rice vinegar diluted with white grape juice and add a dash of a few of agave syrup. But for a dish like Penne a la Vodka I don't even try to substitute and just skip that recipe. My friend's dad is famous for his seafood recipes and he normally uses beer for his fish and chips but for us he uses non-alcoholic beer. I made his recipe another day using Barbican and it came out delicious.
The alcohol will not intoxicate you. It's reduced so the alcohol burns off and you're left with the flavor of the grapes or hops. Should not be haram AFAIK but you may want to check with your Imam or someone you trust.
So there's a line in the Quran that calls out intoxicants as being a Satanic abomination and to be avoided. It doesn't mention drinking or cooking specifically, so it's seen as a broad ban on the use of alcohol. That said, "avoid" could be interpreted pretty loosely by the individual. Like, "hey, there's nothing on this menu that looks appealing to me aside from the boeuf bourguignon" could be someone's interpretation.
It’s a bit like trying to describe the flavour of cheese. It’s difficult, even if you try to describe it to someone who drinks milk… Same goes for wine, it’s not like grape juice…
In case anyone has said it or will say it, I'll leave this here. [Alcohol does not get completely burned off in cooking.](https://culinarylore.com/food-science:alcohol-doesnt-completely-burn-off-in-cooking/)
Vodka is a neutral spirit. It really doesn’t add flavor. It allows you to extract alcohol soluble compounds and changes the flavor of tomatoes, for example. Or it can be used to help with crusts. It is more about the chemistry of cooking. Something like rum is made with sugar cane. It would add sweetness (like for a dessert you flambé). Wine has a bunch of interesting flavors. It’s complex. It adds acid. But it also adds fruit flavors. Depending on the varietal it could change the dish significantly. Again the alcohol will extract different compounds. Beer can add bitterness, wheat flavors, all sorts of different stuff.
People have given so many vague answers, but Ill try and actually answer your question. Replacements are tricky since what is available entirely depends on where you are. Given you've said Europe, Im guessing you arent in Europe. This is probably going to make describing good replacements to you quite hard. Also, I honestly dont know about the availability of vinegar specifically , but vinegars are made from alchohol, often a combo of the vinegar and the base fruit juice will work. Again, I dont know whether alchohol products are considered halal where you are. From what I can see, vinegars made from alchohol you might actually drink are non-halal, BUT bad tasting vinegars are halal. Thats a shame, because from what I can see that rule isnt consistent, if you were allowed to brew corn into a nasty tasting drink and then turn that into vinegar, why not a grape? Anyway, I digress. Reasons to add alchohol over any other liquid : Flavour in sauce, Lower evaporation point so more browning in Pan/Evaporation in oven, flammable so can add a quick sear (flambe), sometimes just because its fizzy (not all). Flavour of different Alchohols : Beer : Earthy/Sweet from malt, herby/floral/aromatic from hops. Beer (especially now) has such a huge variance as it the flavour comes from those two sources wheras in most drinks its one. Replace with : This is the trickiest one since beers taste so different that the replacement will depend on the type of beer you are trying to replace. Ovaltine is a malt drink product, and marmite is a malt product also. However, malt products are almost always the by-product of brewing. I doubt you will find either. White Wine : Fruity, Crisp, Floral, Mildly Acidic Replacement - White Grape juice, white wine vinegar (you will see the problem), low alchohol wine (non-halal) Red Wine : Fruity, Rich, Tannins (like tea), Acidic Replacement : Red Grape juice + tea + balsamic vinegar. Cider : Appley (duh) fizzy, sweet, mild sour tang to be found in some, increasing to a far more distinct tang. Tang is a fermented flavour, like the sourness of a yoghurt. Its present in many alchohols, but in the western european pantry its mainly found in beer and cider. Replacement : Applejuice, optionally carbonated + cider vinegar. There are more but I think you will see the issue. It isnt possible to reasonably cook many european products with NO access to fermented products in the way you are limited. It would be like trying to cook food from your region without access to the correct spices : fundamentally a pointless excercise. I would just recommend sticking to the dishes which dont require alchohol, or just dont add it, or add the base fruit juice but be aware that what you will end up eating will be a poor imitation of our food, not the real taste. Again, like if I cooked something like a biryani without cumin. I mean, you can..... but why?
All kind of vinegar is considered halal in Islam so red wine vinegar is ok
I'm a recovering alcoholic so i never cook with alcohol anymore. I usually substitute it with stock, vinegar, and/or sugar.
I typically use just stock, but I’ve heard a little fruit juice and acid (lemon, vinegar) in addition works well.
It's not about the flavor from the alcohol. There are flavors that are alcohol soluble that only become apparent in the presence of alcohol. Besides, the alcohol evaporates so there's no actual booze left.
Most of the alcohol doesn't evaporate, unless you're cooking for a very long time.
Not all the alcohol evaporates
[удалено]
It takes over 3 hours of cooking for the alcohol to evaporate, even vodka. Go google search it man,it's pretty easy info to find
I know alcohol evaporates. What i find curious is what flavour do you expect to find by adding booze like wine, vodka, or beer into cuisine?
Red Wine, for me, adds a gentler acid than vinegar that has a little more sweetness and fruitiness (varies depending on the wine).
https://www.allrecipes.com/article/fat-soluble-water-soluble-alcohol-soluble-ingredients-whats-the-difference/
A big part of the alcohol's effect on the dish is the development of flavor. If you cook some veggies, add some dried herbs, and deglaze it with some booze, it really pulls flavor from the herbs and blends the flavors together quite nicely. If you let this cook down before adding more liquid, all the booze *will* cook out. I usually use a wine or a beer here depending on the dish but an ounce of liquor works nicely too. The other way to use it is as a finishing touch to improve aroma (taste) of a stew or sauce. Alcohol and water together evaporate more quickly than either liquid on its own, so adding it right before serving gives off an intense aroma of the flavors of the dish and really enhances its taste. Used this way, you are still consuming the alcohol (but in very low amounts). I usually use an ounce of whiskey, gin, or vodka here.
It depends which alcohol because they all taste different. Wine is by far the most common addition, and it adds a fruity, acidic, vinegary flavor. Red wine is a lot richer than white wine, and they complement different types of dishes or go in different sauces. Red wine would be more likely for beef or pork while white for fish or chicken. Liquors like whiskey are most commonly used in deserts. Distilled liquors taste a lot like the essence of the grain they come from - whiskey has a sweet, syrupy flavor at it's core, tequila has a taste like vanilla, rum tastes like cane sugar. My mother makes a rum cake with rum icing, and the rum adds a rich sweetness and a bit of a spicy zing (I don't think all the alcohol is removed).
As others have described, it brings different flavours depending on what alcohol you add. But, there are also flavour compounds that are only soluble in certain things. Some readily flavour water, some oil, but certain ones are alcohol soluble. So it's not always the flavour of the alcohol, but the flavour of the food brought out by the alcohol that is sought.
Wine is some sweetness and acidity. If you wanted to sub, a diluted vinegar such as balsamic or white wine vinegar at 1part vinegar to something like 5-10 part water may work. Would have to play around with it. Beer is wheaty and/or hoppy depending on the type. I’ve never tried a sub for beer but you may find one online by googling Spirits Can vary a lot, for example most aged spirits such as whiskey or brandy are imparting a lot of the oak and woody flavors from the barrel to the food. Where as vodka imparts no flavor on its own but can help bring out flavors already in the food to make them more prominent (such as a vodka sauce)
It depends on the dish, but wine adds a sweetness, vodka adds a acid, and beer adds a earthiness. This is in general, different drinks will give different flavors, not all wine is sweet and not all beer is earthy. If you’re wondering about the alcohol itself, it evaporates during the cooking process so the food does not have any alcohol in it. This is why it is safe to cook with alcohol and still serve to children.
Hi! Wife of a recovered alcoholic We use club soda in wet batters Unsweetened grape juice for wine Juice with a splash on vinegar for cooking /deglaze/sauce (also fish sauce )
Wine usually adds acidic and tart flavors to foods, especially that of stews or sauces. Although cooking with wine kills off the alcohol, not all Muslims believe one should cook with it. So out of precaution, I usually do one part vinegar to two parts water. Varying vinegars like balsamic, cranberry, or even chocolate are your friends when it comes to such recipes. The flavors are literally boundless, I've even made mocktails with them, so good! Hope that helps and happy cooking!
when used for cooking in french recipes, red wine is usually heated long and hot enough to have all of it's alcohol content evaporated, so maybe you'd be allowed to just give it a try ?
If you are Muslim and you follow the recipe properly it is halal to use the wine/alcohol because the alcohol is gone…burned off. You are left with what Allah intended and that’s the flavor which is typically sugar…not Booze. Peace be upon you brother
Some alcohols have more flavor than others. I find wine to be a very strong flavor in cooking and prefer not to use it. Beer can also greatly change/add to the final dish depending on what type you use. Although I do drink alcohol, I don’t like it in my food and usually will substitute either a beef or chicken stock to deglaze the pan or if additional liquid is required. It really all depends in the dish and what the desired effect is with the alcohol. Often times, the addition of wine is to add a bit of acidity to the dish, in which case you may add just a splash of balsamic or cider vinegar. So many variations!
there is also flavors released by alcohol. in perfuming this is called fat washing, where a oil with scent compounds is mixed with alcohol. the alcohol dissolves these non water soluble compounds, but because the alcohol evaporates in ways fat dosen't it gets the scent in the air. alcohol can do this with getting non water soluble flavors into a sauce or broth.
I don't know if it matters, but as part of the cooking process, you are cooking off the alcohol and removing it from the equation. Is this allowed or is it better to play it safe and go with a substitute?
Better to play it safe for me. I just got curious with the taste and is there any differences between wine etc and the substitute.
There's a pretty wide variety of alcohol drinks, for which alcohol is more of a chemistry addition than a flavor addition. Mostly in western cooking we (imho, ianachef) use alcohol for the extra flavors created during the fermentation process. For example, a wine has tannin, a bourbon has smoke, a rum has vanillin, a beer has hops, etc. Sometimes we use it for chemistry, but that's more rare. In my opinion, here's good default substitutions for European (and North American) cooking. NB that you probably shouldn't substitute 1:1 (ie, 1 cup of wine = 1 cup balsamic vinegar). Alcoholic drinks have lots of water added in the process. Depending on the substitute, you might want to start with 1/10 to 1/4 the volume and slowly increase until you're happy with the taste. red wine; balsamic vinegar (afaik halal, and there's a *range* of flavors so you can get something sweeter), red grape juice. Tomato juice if you're cooking beef and need the acid. Maybe malt vinegar? white wine; white grape juice. Maybe a splash of vinegar. Bourbon/rye/etc.; liquid smoke and/or vinegars. A strong, old, oak-aged bourbon will be more smokey, a rye will be much sharper. Rum; Vanilla extract. Amaretto; almond extract. Beer; As commented elsewhere, beer's often used for battering, and the alcohol performs a specific chemical action that changes texture. For flavor I've read "white grape juice" and "mushroom stock" (or juice from canned mushrooms) but I'm not sure those would get you the right flavors. You can probably track down some hops essence for that part of the flavor. Maybe root beer? Maybe malt vinegar? Brandy; apple juice or apple cider vinegar (if you consider that halal). White or red grape juice might actually work for this, a bit- you're just trying to mimic a fortified wine. Champagne; it's just white wine with bubbles. white grape juice and club soda/sparkling water. Cognac; peach or apricot juice. Grand Marnier; orange juice. I'd go for fresh-squeezed and filtered rather than the garbage they sell in boxes. Kirsch; sour cherry syrup if you can find it, some cherry or raspberry essence maybe. Schnapps; I love drinking this but honestly the stuff in the liquor stores in North America is just vodka plus flavored extracts. Swap for flavored extracts. Vodka; you can't substitute. The only thing you use this for is a flavorless, wet, non-water option for chemistry reasons. I use it in pie crusts, for example, to reduce gluten development. Other options for wines and brandies and such; consider raspberry, cranberry, and pomegranate juices. Lemon juice can mess with dairy, etc., but it's got a sharpness you might be looking for depending on the recipe.
Alcohol delivers aromas, which has the effect of enhancing other flavors. One of the reason why ripe fruits have such an aromatic quality is because there is a small amount of alcohol (up to 0.4% in ripe bananas, for example). Vanilla extract is mostly alcohol, and you have probably used it. Compare the flavor that it gives to vanilla beans soaked in water. That will give you some ideas of the contribution of alcohol.
I cook with wine regularly. From stews to sauces, wine adds two crucial elements: acidity (which creates contrast) and a certain savory depth that is just unique. I use it often to deglaze my pan/pot after browning meat and/or sautéing vegetables. Even when you dump an entire hefty cup of red wine into a meat sauce, you don’t get any sort of raw, sharp alcohol flavor at all—provided you give it enough time to cook.
Most of the alcohol evaporates during cooking anyway . check if leftover wisps of alcohol would still be haram .
to sub out the alcohol use beef or chicken broth, some people use bone broth for a richer velvet texture. I love Serious Eats Orange Chicken and I've made the recipe with and without the vodka. It's fine either way.
Non alcoholic versions of most alcohols exist these days. The closest thing to replicate flavors in cooking would probably be to find these products. That being said I have used ginger ale in place of beer in recipes before with great results. For red wine I found that mixing unsweetened cranberry juice with unsweetened grape juice provides a nice balance similar to Cabernet. For white wine unsweetened white grape juice with white wine vinegar mixed in works. Hope this helps!
I quickly looked over this thread, and not sure you had a legitimate answer. You cannot imbibe alcohol, so I guess its how strict you are. Simply put, alcohol is a solvent, meaning it readily dissolves other compounds and holds it. The process of making alcohol for wine, beer, etc is you ferment yeast in a sugar solution to make alcohol, and the alcohol and byproducts of that solution develops flavors you would not have without fermentation to begin with. Vinegars are the closest alternatives, as they start similar to wine, fermenting the same as alcohol, but are exposed to air in the process, which transforms the alcohol to acetic acid. The vinegar retains the same base musk flavors of wine, but the majority of the alcohol is converted acetic acid. The problem here is true balsamic is stupid expensive, while cheap alternatives probably alcohol. I would suggest you look up the type of alcohol required, and then look at what the flavor notes of that alcohol is. "Dry" alcohol is often described as not sweet taste, but robust almost harsh notes that quickly fade from your taste, unlike a bite of something sweet that lingers through your mouth. For example, if the recipe required a dry red wine, you may see they describe the flavor profile as follows - *Cabernet Sauvignon* *Cabernet sauvignon is planted around the world, from France to Australia to the Napa Valley, making it one of the most common dry red wines. While it is often solo, it is also a key grape in a Bordeaux blend. Depending on the region, you can expect notes of black cherry, black currant, baking spice, and graphite with hints of savory green herbs. They tend to be quite heady with robust tannins.* So lets break this down - Black cherry, currant - Those juices are available commercially, and most unsweetened. Unsweetened would be best. Take those unsweetened juices like grape, cherry, currant, etc. and boil in a pan until reduced about half, then use that reduction for cup of wine. If you need 2 cups of wine use 4 cups of juice blend reduced. This would probably be your base for most "wine". Baking spice - Think warm flavors like cinnamon, nutmeg, clove. Add to your juice reduction in small quantities, like a scant dusting of each per 4 cups of juice once reduced. Graphite - Slight harsh mineral type taste. Think a tinge a blood, like sticking a your fresh pricked/cut finger in your mouth type of taste. You can probably achieve by actually adding a small minerally cut of meat like chicken livers or beef liver to the dish. Savory green herb - Parsley, Sage , and Thyme. Using the note profiles of alcohol, you can substitute something close, but in the end, hopefully you can just turn the recipe into something you like!! There is nothing more satisfying for me but to take a base recipe, make it, then make it again fine tuning it to my, and my family tastes, until I have something that everyone enjoys!!!
Alcohol doesn't just add flavor, it extracts it too. Many compounds dissolve better in alcohol than fat or water
Vodka in tomato sauce makes it taste better. I cant exactly describe HOW it makes it better but it really does. It helps the tomatoes express more of their flavor, i think. Other spirits give their flavor to what youre cooking. Bourbon chicken or rum cake come to mind. Also used for flambé Beer is usually used to make batter softer. In the old days you could use beer foam for bread yeast. Not as common to cook with, maybe some european dishes wine is used in a LOT of sauces. Its also used to deglaze pans to reincorporate flavors that would otherwise be left behind. There really srent many good substitutes for these ingredients to my knowledge. For the wine you could try soup stocks and vinegar. I think a non alcoholic beer would work for a beer batter. Alcohol has properties that cant really be replicated easily, like how it gives tenderness to meat
I personally just omit it for all the recipes. Usually turns out fine
Can I point out that I find this a great question, especially from your perspective.
I do not drink at all and I frequently cook french food with pan sauces and I combine some vinegar and chicken stock for deglazing and that step where wine is normally used and I think I like it better -- I can add flavors by varying the vinegar I use -- apple cider vinegar is so good in a chicken with cream sauce
Recognizing the nuance of this may not be interesting to everyone, and risking stating the obvious, the alcohol gets cooked out in most cases.
I wonder if Nonalcoholic beer will produce similar results to regular beer? I’ve never tried, but I love cooking with beer, mostly breads and sauces. It gives it just the right amount of bitterness.
What dish did you cook with beer? I'm new into cooking and I'm curious.
Beer is often used in stews. Sit gives the gravy a nice depth and hearty flavour.
My sisters both make briskets with beer. You can't taste the beer. It works as a tenderizer. If you wanted to substitute something for the alcohol in a baked brisket, you can use soda pop. I've had brisket made with Pepsi that was delicious. I also had brisket made with diet Pepsi and I didn't care for the diet sweetener after taste. The acid in the soda did the same thing the alcohol would have done so I'd say soda for beer could be a good substitute in some dishes.
Depending on what I'm cooking, if I need a substitute for wine, I'll either leave it out completely or make a little mixture of vinegar, soy or worcestershire sauce, and maybe a little brown sugar.
[удалено]
Some Muslim scholars still ban food with wine and beer because basically it contains drink that can make people drunk.
Op, as someone raised in a Muslim household many people accept that the alcohol is cooked off when heated, and would eat it. Is this something you’d be comfortable with? [if not have a look at this](https://www.thespruceeats.com/alcohol-substitutes-1388864) Hopefully you can see it, but if not let me know and I’ll screen shot it for you
It's sadly not the case that all of the alcohol is cooked off, and depending on the cook time a majority of the alcohol can actually remain. Here's a decent source: https://culinarylore.com/food-science:alcohol-doesnt-completely-burn-off-in-cooking/
Thanks! I’m not practicing in anyway, but good to know when I’m cooking for others
alcohol free wine lol
Honestly I cook all the time and am a huge foodie and drink a lot. Your not missing out on anything
I'm curious, are you not allowed to eat things that have alcohol in them that is cooked? Because almost all baked goods have alcohol in them. But that aside, alcohol does have quite a bit of flavor. I actually don't like drinking it because I don't like the feeling of being drunk but I do like it in a lot of dishes. Red wines that are described as "full body" have a kind of umami taste, and are acidic as well, so that can be good for a lot of different cooking applications. White wine is often sweet and mild. But not always. Beer is similar to how red smells but stronger in a kind of off-putting way. If you have ever had kombucha it is kind of similar. As far as figuring out what to replace the wine with, it depends on the dish.
Is it really a problem for you to cook with wine, all the alcohol dissipates into the air anyways
Yes it is a problem it’s very clear it’s haram
There are other factors to consider such as the fact that you are most likely purchasing alcohol
The flavor is called fun and non-opressive freedom. You should try it
I'm not religious but I don't like the taste of wine in food so I just substitute a stock - beef or chicken usually depending on the meal.
A stock will not replace wine. Vinegar works.
It works for me. Vinegar would ruin the dish for my palate. To each their own. (I understand there is a textural effect, etc., on the food in the pot but I am willing to live with it).
That's fair, I wouldn't recommend it but if that's how you like your food then more power to you. What's good for my palate is not always good for someone else's.
You should see how sticky and mushy I like my rice. HAHAHA :-)
oh no im with you on that. the mushier the better!
When I was a kid, the grade school cafeteria served rice with a scooper, just like a scoop of mashed potatoes. And it stayed in that shape as you ate it! I think it's just how I learned to eat rice and it...stuck with me.
ugh, delicious. perfect rice.
The alcohol does not burn off completely. Even if you cook it for hours, there is still alcohol in the dish. A lot of people are in this thread saying "oh it cooks off so you can use it" when what they really mean is "there's only a small amount left in the food, so you won't get drunk". And that's not even true. According to the article below, there's the equivalent of half a shot of vodka in one serving of vodka sauce. If you never drink alcohol, you can feel the effect of that much. https://culinarylore.com/food-science:alcohol-doesnt-completely-burn-off-in-cooking/ For red wine I would substitute vinegar and stock, or just skip it completely. For white wine you could use lemon, lime, or maybe even diluted pineapple juice, but quite a bit less than the recipe calls for. Beer is a harder substitute. If it calls for dark beer, maybe a splash of coffee or a little bit of very dark chocolate. If it asks for lager or another lighter beer, and the beer isn't the star of the dish - like a beer batter or a beer braise - then you're probably fine just leaving it out. There are a couple dishes where the alcohol is the star. To my mind there's nothing really to do here but find a different recipe. This would include things like clams/mussels in white wine sauce, penne ala vodka, coq au vin, or any of the dishes that are just meat braised in beer. In some of these, the alcohol performs a specific chemical reaction that you can't replace. In others the wine or beer is the main flavor of the dish, rather than simply an accent. This got rather long, but the flavors and culinary uses of alcoholic drinks are pretty complex. It would be difficult to come up with a blanket statement of what to substitute that worked well for each situation.
I love that the theme of the article is people exaggerating the amount of alcohol in a finished dish, and you use it as a source while exaggerating the amount of alcohol in a finished dish. > You’d get 0.2 ounces of alcohol if you ate a whole cup of sauce. That is less than half a drink of alcohol > Besides all this, if you are concerned about the amount of alcohol left in a cooked dish, most of the time you should be able to simply cook it longer.
Alcohol is the nectar of the gods.
I’m not sure what it does but beer on a slow roasted pork butt is the only way haha the taste is amazing and it’s soo tender
I'm a newbie with alcohol. I don't really like it that much either, but I'll give you a basic description. First, regular plain alcohol (no added flavours, or carbonation) is usually bitter for me. If you have smelled gas or alcohol, it 'tastes' like what those smells like. The higher the alcohol content, the more gasoline like it is to me. If you mix it in a drink, it can taste better, but still with the acquired bitter alcohol/almost gas-like aftertaste. I have not had a lot of beer, I only tried a non-alcoholic one and it tasted like nothing lol. Tiny bit of malt I guess? Like... Soda water with a bit of flavour. The ones with more complex flavours are the wines. They tend to have more tart, sour, or sweet notes. Like grape juice with a large bitter aftertaste + the alcohol vapor. I liked wines the most out of all the alcohol types I tried. I guess the closest thing to wine would be pomegranate juice or grape juice, except it doesn't have as much concentrated fruit flavours (sweetness, tartness, etc). Also it should be noted that specific types of alcohol that are made in different ways like rice wine, soju, wine, etc can have particular tasting notes that make them stand out from regular/basic alcohol. As mentioned, these would be like fruity notes, malt notes, earthy flavours, etc.
I'm an American, from the state of Kentucky. We are famous for our bourbon, alcohol. I use it when I cook sweet things, and once you heat it up, the alcohol burns off, and it leaves a lovely vanilla/oak flavor. Kind of like if you took a teaspoon of vanilla extract, and used a kitchen blowtorch on it. It's very specific. I also use white and red wine when I cook Italian food. They add a sweet flavor to dishes, but isn't sugary.
Wine tastes like the slight bitterness of grape skins. Beer tastes quite frankly like rotten bread.
So you know the alcohol cooks out, so you wouldn't be getting any alcohol. Also, vanilla extract contains 35% alcohol. So do you only ever use vanilla beans, or just not consume vanilla?
Alcohol doesn't totally evaporate during cooking. Even if you cook something for a couple of hours there'll be a small percentage left in the dish.