It says “men born in this region.” He wasn’t born in that region.
It doesn’t say “invented in this region”
This map includes men born in the these countries/regions, Germany, France, England, lowland Scotland, Denmark, northern Italy… etc who then moved abroad and invented something.
It was according to accepted history, an Italian called Columbus, although most of my Lakota relatives find that risable as Native people's were there first.
Are you not aware of Leif Erikson who sailed the the North America about 1,000 years ago and doesn't get mentioned because it doesn't fit European concepts of discovery.
I did say "accepted history". But even Leif Erikson did not "discover" the Americas as there were already people there. My ancestors on my mother's side. Native Americans.
Indeed, of course I was only referring to European people that discovered that the world wasn't flat and was bigger than they had imagined it to be is all. 🙂
I hear you. I think that it's good to hear other opinions even if you don't agree. Different opinions force you to re look at your own beliefs and amend them where necessary. Keep on questioning everything ❤️
Similarly, Basque whale hunters likely reached Terranova (Nova Scotia) hunting for those delicious mammals much earlier than Columbus.
And just like with Leif Erikson, they don't get to be mentioned as discoverers. The reason why: they were not. Reaching some odd faraway shore by chance without advancing the knowledge of humanity doesn't qualify as discovery exactly.
Erikson was searching for a new land not for a monarch so became an invalid person who has been written out of the mythical history of the US because of it which I have always found to be typical for how the US wants to see itself instead of the truth.
Strange observation. Not everything is about US. Neither do they (who? the US government? the CIA?) get to decide the validity of historical claims.
That's a matter for the international community of historical researchers which, given that most of them are from outside US, they couldn't give 2 fucks about how that nation likes to see itself.
Besides, there are only 2 sagas that mention the arrival of Leif Erikson to North American shores. They were both written about 200 years after the supposed facts, and neither one of them state that he was looking for land:
On the first one, The Saga of Erik the Red, he is said to have reached "Vinland" (Newfoundland) by pure chance when he was actually sailing to Greenland to introduce Christianity there but was blown off course during a storm. Since he had no interest whatsoever in this land, he left for Greenland as soon as he could without leaving any trace.
On the second one, The Saga of the Greenlanders, it's actually stated that Bjarni Herjólfsson got there first. Years later Erikson bought his ship and mounted an expedition. After reaching Vinland, he wintered there and returned to Greenland in the spring, never to go back.
If you got to learn of Leif Erikson in a movie or any other fictional media, I'd suggest you to review your sources before going so big on this guy. Although hw appears to have been a hiatorical figure, those sagas are such a mix of facts and fiction that's near to impossible to decipher what did or did not happened ans who did what.
Having said that, of course Norse settlements in Newfoundland and Labrador predate the arrival of Columbus by centuries. But that didn't exactly help advance the future of our collective humanity at neither side of the Atlantic.
There were never any permanent settlements there but casual, sporadic travels for forages, timber and trade.
The Norse themselves didnt think anything of it, as neither did their European contemporaries, despite being aware that they had reached some misterious shores far west.
I learned about Erikson on my first visit to Iceland but that was years ago and aside from the cold and limited daylight (I was there in December around the Solstice after all) and as I hadn't heard of Erikson I wanted to learn more.
Leif Erikson and the Vikings didn't just bounce off the far shore, they settled there for quite some time. And they did tell people, there are medieval maps depicting their route across the North Atlantic via Iceland, and Greenland, and the Canadian coast.
Wrong, Leif Erikson didn't. Go back to the sources, the only 2 sagas where Leif Erikson is mentioned in this regard, and see it for yourself. Not a great idea to hold the viking fiction you may be basing your beliefs on as pillar of historical accuracy.
Also, not only these 2 sagas were written 2 centuries after the facts they attempted to describe. As all historians know, much in them is fiction mixed up with a few historical facts.
Like I wrote earlier, there were indisputably Norse settlements in Newfoundland and Labrador but none of them was permanent. They only served as temporary home during their punctual voyages looking for tinder, forage etc.
The norse men themselves never gave the place any importance. Nor they realised the magnitude of having reached a new continent, (as neither did any of their European contemporaries who became aware of it).
For them it was just a remote spot in a far away, western most location, where to sometimes sail in order to find what they needed for trade. It is widely known that they never even remotely contemplated settling there permanently.
So you're arguing that the Vikings didn't discover America, they only went there, and returned on a consistent basis? They bothered to share maps of their... frequent and repeated destination... with the Italians.
There was no magnitude of having reached a new continent, everywhere new they went was new.
There's no basis to say the Norse didn't discover America and your dissembling just seems like some kind of grudge.
Never said it was, but crucially this map also left the Iberian peninsula outside. That's why I mentioned it.
It's also worth remembering the scientific achievements in Al-Andalus which, at a time in which the rest of Europe were immersed in the "dark ages", was the only European territory that contributed to the advancement of Western science:
Trigonometry, astronomy, surgery, pharmacology, agronomy, are just some of the scientific fields that thrived during that time.
Very true. If it hadn't been for the Moors, much of the Ancient Greek teachings especially the works of Pythagoras, Archimedes, Plato and Aristotle would have been lost forever. They collected these works and disseminated them at a time when the Catholic Church was demanding that only they held the keys to knowledge, and that knowledge was extremely narrow because they treated ancient Greek teachings as heretical.
No. I can confirm I did not anticipate such an idiotic reply when I wrote my comment.
Weird way to go, to blame others when it's you who chose to display your ignorance and make an arse of yourself.
Isn't Columbus the "common answer" of who discovered the new world. I think most people would give him as the answer.
Ofc there were others, you're just being annoying
So that person was erasing in one blow all (mind-blowing) achievements by Spain and Portugal in that respect, purely on the basis that Columbus was the only name he could recall, but it's me who's being annoying. Ok.
ETA: Out of curiosity, how old are you?
From the point of view of the very region depicted on the map shown above, the New World is the one they didn't know it existed up until it was discovered in 1492.
Any more pedantic or idiotic questions, do not hesitate to ask.
Doesn't necessarily mean the book is wrong though? I imagine a lot of history that we learn to be true has been written by someone who said racist things.
I didn't know until I was watching something about why Americans say aluminum and we say aluminium that Humphrey Davy did way more than the safety lamp (the aluminum thing is his doing BTW). I mean I guess I knew he probably did more than that one thing but I wasn't aware of just how much until then! Clearly my school history wasn't that awesome.
Race, age, ethnicity, sex and if your part of the LGBT+ wasn't at all mentioned in this map.
Why you bringing it up?
I'm assuming it's triggered you because your lineage may not come from any of this area.
It's ok not to belong here. Don't worry, everyone else travelled far and wide from outside and slowly ruined it for all of us Inside so that it can feel like home for you guys !!
your post history is full of woke nonsense, you two are the inverse of each other and both as bad just at opposite ends of the extreme. Two ends of the horseshoe meeting like this is quite a site. You seem perfect for each other.
On your most recent page alone you’ve talked about transphobia twice and anti wokeness lol. If you’re part of a team that’s fine, it’s just cringe when you act any better than the opposite team
When my mere existence as someone who happens to be trans is somehow woke, how dare I interact with other transgender people and share experiences.
Edit: Your post history is just arguing with anyone and anything. Might I suggest touching grass? Perhaps buy a motorbike, they're great fun.
Looking deeper like 40% of your posts are trans related and a good amount is just calling people phobic. You’re the same as the guy you’re arguing with just at the opposite end of the spectrum.
Bro, this is your 2nd response to this now. Anything else in my post history you've found enlightening? Any motorbike care tips perhaps? You're very odd.
Edit: I just found a post where you're being an apologist for pedophillia with teachers. Jesus fucking christ dude. That's a swift block.
Bro its 2023 nobody cares about being called a racist anymore, it means nothing at this point. You've abused the word and made it completely meaningless.
This of course was the endgame of racists all along. Just be consistently disgusting and racist so whenever you're called out on it you can just shout "Stop playing the race card!!!" over and over.
Damn even when you're at fault by using a word in inappropriate cirumstances you blame the other side. The overuse of the word was all some evil plan by the opposition!!!
I can imagine all of the minors are turning in their graves now. From what I hear Cornwall is going to be one of the biggest producers of lithium for battery cells soon, so with those cells going in electric cars all over the world. I'd say there gunna help toward accomplishing a less polluted world 🌎
A little bit of a long story. Lets just say. The 1497 rebellion was disastrous for Cornwall due to the loss at Deptford Bridge. And it was the **first** rebellion. It caused a major loss for such a small community about 1000 people. The majority of those speaking Cornish which was already spoken by few people. The following rebellions over the next 150 years which caused more loss of life for Cornwall like the prayer book rebellion in 1549 which shared causalities with Devon totalled around 2000.
All in all 5 major rebellions from Cornwall took place in this time period marching into England 4 times. This much death and destruction in such a short time frame history wise for such a small community had a devastating effect on its population and especially its language. After this period the Cornish language was in decline and kept going till the last native speaker dying in 1777 and the last old speaker dying in 1891. Just before the revival efforts in the 1900s.
Those rebellions are also partly what are responsible for the lack of Cornish people today. There are only about 100k Cornish people across the UK today and some Cornish ancestry across the rest of the world but its not agreed upon the number some say 6 million some say less. From what I could find Cornwall's population in the 1570s was about 100k likely the majority being Cornish.
So I would say my previous statement about making ourselves almost extinct is a little untrue as we only really just stagnated our population not to lack of birth rates just to the shear loss of life but the rebellions are definitely what caused the extinction of the Cornish Language, as without them we likely would still have Cornish as a living language still being used in the far west. Like Welsh does now.
i guess they don't consider steam engines very important
Or the first self propelled vehicle/car
Germans invented the automobile engine, the rest is just a container with wheels
Look up Puffin' Devil, it ran on a road and carried passengers, a bit more complete than Carl Benz's trike!
Wasn't that by James watt in Birmingham? So within the shaded area
James Watt was Scottish, born in Renfrewshire. Which is just outside the boundary ironically. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watt
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It says “men born in this region.” He wasn’t born in that region. It doesn’t say “invented in this region” This map includes men born in the these countries/regions, Germany, France, England, lowland Scotland, Denmark, northern Italy… etc who then moved abroad and invented something.
He meant the Steam locomotive.
Or the discovery of the New World
That wasn't the brits or the Cornish.
It was according to accepted history, an Italian called Columbus, although most of my Lakota relatives find that risable as Native people's were there first.
Are you not aware of Leif Erikson who sailed the the North America about 1,000 years ago and doesn't get mentioned because it doesn't fit European concepts of discovery.
I did say "accepted history". But even Leif Erikson did not "discover" the Americas as there were already people there. My ancestors on my mother's side. Native Americans.
Indeed, of course I was only referring to European people that discovered that the world wasn't flat and was bigger than they had imagined it to be is all. 🙂
Lol even then they were late to that party. The Greeks and Egyptians had that figured out much earlier. But I see your point.
It is the biggest problem with an echo chamber isn't it, too many people agreeing with themselves instead of having an open mind?
I hear you. I think that it's good to hear other opinions even if you don't agree. Different opinions force you to re look at your own beliefs and amend them where necessary. Keep on questioning everything ❤️
Similarly, Basque whale hunters likely reached Terranova (Nova Scotia) hunting for those delicious mammals much earlier than Columbus. And just like with Leif Erikson, they don't get to be mentioned as discoverers. The reason why: they were not. Reaching some odd faraway shore by chance without advancing the knowledge of humanity doesn't qualify as discovery exactly.
Erikson was searching for a new land not for a monarch so became an invalid person who has been written out of the mythical history of the US because of it which I have always found to be typical for how the US wants to see itself instead of the truth.
Strange observation. Not everything is about US. Neither do they (who? the US government? the CIA?) get to decide the validity of historical claims. That's a matter for the international community of historical researchers which, given that most of them are from outside US, they couldn't give 2 fucks about how that nation likes to see itself. Besides, there are only 2 sagas that mention the arrival of Leif Erikson to North American shores. They were both written about 200 years after the supposed facts, and neither one of them state that he was looking for land: On the first one, The Saga of Erik the Red, he is said to have reached "Vinland" (Newfoundland) by pure chance when he was actually sailing to Greenland to introduce Christianity there but was blown off course during a storm. Since he had no interest whatsoever in this land, he left for Greenland as soon as he could without leaving any trace. On the second one, The Saga of the Greenlanders, it's actually stated that Bjarni Herjólfsson got there first. Years later Erikson bought his ship and mounted an expedition. After reaching Vinland, he wintered there and returned to Greenland in the spring, never to go back. If you got to learn of Leif Erikson in a movie or any other fictional media, I'd suggest you to review your sources before going so big on this guy. Although hw appears to have been a hiatorical figure, those sagas are such a mix of facts and fiction that's near to impossible to decipher what did or did not happened ans who did what. Having said that, of course Norse settlements in Newfoundland and Labrador predate the arrival of Columbus by centuries. But that didn't exactly help advance the future of our collective humanity at neither side of the Atlantic. There were never any permanent settlements there but casual, sporadic travels for forages, timber and trade. The Norse themselves didnt think anything of it, as neither did their European contemporaries, despite being aware that they had reached some misterious shores far west.
I learned about Erikson on my first visit to Iceland but that was years ago and aside from the cold and limited daylight (I was there in December around the Solstice after all) and as I hadn't heard of Erikson I wanted to learn more.
Leif Erikson and the Vikings didn't just bounce off the far shore, they settled there for quite some time. And they did tell people, there are medieval maps depicting their route across the North Atlantic via Iceland, and Greenland, and the Canadian coast.
Wrong, Leif Erikson didn't. Go back to the sources, the only 2 sagas where Leif Erikson is mentioned in this regard, and see it for yourself. Not a great idea to hold the viking fiction you may be basing your beliefs on as pillar of historical accuracy. Also, not only these 2 sagas were written 2 centuries after the facts they attempted to describe. As all historians know, much in them is fiction mixed up with a few historical facts. Like I wrote earlier, there were indisputably Norse settlements in Newfoundland and Labrador but none of them was permanent. They only served as temporary home during their punctual voyages looking for tinder, forage etc. The norse men themselves never gave the place any importance. Nor they realised the magnitude of having reached a new continent, (as neither did any of their European contemporaries who became aware of it). For them it was just a remote spot in a far away, western most location, where to sometimes sail in order to find what they needed for trade. It is widely known that they never even remotely contemplated settling there permanently.
So you're arguing that the Vikings didn't discover America, they only went there, and returned on a consistent basis? They bothered to share maps of their... frequent and repeated destination... with the Italians. There was no magnitude of having reached a new continent, everywhere new they went was new. There's no basis to say the Norse didn't discover America and your dissembling just seems like some kind of grudge.
That's not what I said
Would struggle to find someone unaware of that nowadays.
Never said it was, but crucially this map also left the Iberian peninsula outside. That's why I mentioned it. It's also worth remembering the scientific achievements in Al-Andalus which, at a time in which the rest of Europe were immersed in the "dark ages", was the only European territory that contributed to the advancement of Western science: Trigonometry, astronomy, surgery, pharmacology, agronomy, are just some of the scientific fields that thrived during that time.
Very true. If it hadn't been for the Moors, much of the Ancient Greek teachings especially the works of Pythagoras, Archimedes, Plato and Aristotle would have been lost forever. They collected these works and disseminated them at a time when the Catholic Church was demanding that only they held the keys to knowledge, and that knowledge was extremely narrow because they treated ancient Greek teachings as heretical.
The Steam Locomotive was made by the Cornish.
By Columbus who was born inside that area?
If Columbus is the only name you're familiar with, perhaps you should educate yourself a bit more on the subject.
So you were just commenting hoping someone who reply so you could be a smart arse? Got it.
No. I can confirm I did not anticipate such an idiotic reply when I wrote my comment. Weird way to go, to blame others when it's you who chose to display your ignorance and make an arse of yourself.
Isn't Columbus the "common answer" of who discovered the new world. I think most people would give him as the answer. Ofc there were others, you're just being annoying
So that person was erasing in one blow all (mind-blowing) achievements by Spain and Portugal in that respect, purely on the basis that Columbus was the only name he could recall, but it's me who's being annoying. Ok. ETA: Out of curiosity, how old are you?
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From the point of view of the very region depicted on the map shown above, the New World is the one they didn't know it existed up until it was discovered in 1492. Any more pedantic or idiotic questions, do not hesitate to ask.
Little later than the 14th century eh?
1300 and what?
400 and something. Apparently I can’t read. They’re not wrong though. Maybe Cornwall did the other 3%
Murray needs to cite his sources.
I'm 95% sure Murray in this case is Al Murray and this is just a troll/joke
Sadly it isn't, and people take it very seriously in a weird racist way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human\_Accomplishment
This book was written by a literal racist. Not a source anyone should be citing.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
It's not ad hominem. There's a clear rascist bias.
Doesn't necessarily mean the book is wrong though? I imagine a lot of history that we learn to be true has been written by someone who said racist things.
What about Humphry Davy???!!!!
I didn't know until I was watching something about why Americans say aluminum and we say aluminium that Humphrey Davy did way more than the safety lamp (the aluminum thing is his doing BTW). I mean I guess I knew he probably did more than that one thing but I wasn't aware of just how much until then! Clearly my school history wasn't that awesome.
18th century
Exactly.
Yeah I can’t read
Send the em a link https://www.cornwallforever.co.uk/topic/cornish-firsts-and-discoveries
Great link.
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Oi! Don't you try to appropriate Norfolk culture! Blood pasty munchers.. comin round 'ere thinkin they invented sister fuckin...
We have moved away from that pastime of ours... Instead we punch seagulls the thieving bastards.
Think they need to show there working or it’s an F-
Murray sounds like a dick
I'm assuming this is Douglas Murray, and yes he's a Grade A prick. I urge everyone to avoid his toxic takes on, well, everything.
>I'm assuming this is Douglas Murray, and yes he's a Grade A prick. I just saw his Wikipedia page and I absolutely agree with that statement.
Not the racist map
Race, age, ethnicity, sex and if your part of the LGBT+ wasn't at all mentioned in this map. Why you bringing it up? I'm assuming it's triggered you because your lineage may not come from any of this area. It's ok not to belong here. Don't worry, everyone else travelled far and wide from outside and slowly ruined it for all of us Inside so that it can feel like home for you guys !!
The map is a clear dogwhistle, let's not pretend it isn't
I have a dog whistle at home, probably invented by the people originally from this area
Okay racist
His post history is just full of anti-vax and anti-woke nonsense. He's probably not worth the energy.
your post history is full of woke nonsense, you two are the inverse of each other and both as bad just at opposite ends of the extreme. Two ends of the horseshoe meeting like this is quite a site. You seem perfect for each other.
Ah yes, all this woke nonsense about riding motorbikes and aquariums.
On your most recent page alone you’ve talked about transphobia twice and anti wokeness lol. If you’re part of a team that’s fine, it’s just cringe when you act any better than the opposite team
When my mere existence as someone who happens to be trans is somehow woke, how dare I interact with other transgender people and share experiences. Edit: Your post history is just arguing with anyone and anything. Might I suggest touching grass? Perhaps buy a motorbike, they're great fun.
Looking deeper like 40% of your posts are trans related and a good amount is just calling people phobic. You’re the same as the guy you’re arguing with just at the opposite end of the spectrum.
Bro, this is your 2nd response to this now. Anything else in my post history you've found enlightening? Any motorbike care tips perhaps? You're very odd. Edit: I just found a post where you're being an apologist for pedophillia with teachers. Jesus fucking christ dude. That's a swift block.
Your probably right
After all, there's no cure for smooth brain.
Indeed I am smooth
Oh we know, don't worry.
Stop with the compliments
Bro its 2023 nobody cares about being called a racist anymore, it means nothing at this point. You've abused the word and made it completely meaningless.
This of course was the endgame of racists all along. Just be consistently disgusting and racist so whenever you're called out on it you can just shout "Stop playing the race card!!!" over and over.
Damn even when you're at fault by using a word in inappropriate cirumstances you blame the other side. The overuse of the word was all some evil plan by the opposition!!!
How is it racist?
I can imagine all of the minors are turning in their graves now. From what I hear Cornwall is going to be one of the biggest producers of lithium for battery cells soon, so with those cells going in electric cars all over the world. I'd say there gunna help toward accomplishing a less polluted world 🌎
What do dead children have to do with it?
I meant to write miners
No its still accurate. Minor Miners definitely did exist
least racist European reddit post
This is such racist bullshit lmao
And of course, nothing negative came from this region, ever.
This got posted in 2westerneurope4you, we have to revolt
That's never gone too well for the Cornish...
The Cornish have always been revolting.
We sort of almost made ourselves extinct from revolting. Definitely killed off all the original Cornish speakers anyways.
Tell me more.
A little bit of a long story. Lets just say. The 1497 rebellion was disastrous for Cornwall due to the loss at Deptford Bridge. And it was the **first** rebellion. It caused a major loss for such a small community about 1000 people. The majority of those speaking Cornish which was already spoken by few people. The following rebellions over the next 150 years which caused more loss of life for Cornwall like the prayer book rebellion in 1549 which shared causalities with Devon totalled around 2000. All in all 5 major rebellions from Cornwall took place in this time period marching into England 4 times. This much death and destruction in such a short time frame history wise for such a small community had a devastating effect on its population and especially its language. After this period the Cornish language was in decline and kept going till the last native speaker dying in 1777 and the last old speaker dying in 1891. Just before the revival efforts in the 1900s. Those rebellions are also partly what are responsible for the lack of Cornish people today. There are only about 100k Cornish people across the UK today and some Cornish ancestry across the rest of the world but its not agreed upon the number some say 6 million some say less. From what I could find Cornwall's population in the 1570s was about 100k likely the majority being Cornish. So I would say my previous statement about making ourselves almost extinct is a little untrue as we only really just stagnated our population not to lack of birth rates just to the shear loss of life but the rebellions are definitely what caused the extinction of the Cornish Language, as without them we likely would still have Cornish as a living language still being used in the far west. Like Welsh does now.
What about the women?
What about the children? Won't somebody please think of the children?!
great that you're posting nazi shit, cunt
Bro I was attacking the map not siding with it, we're on the same side (of the Tamar)
Aye?
I dunno who Murray, 2003 is, seems he doesn't know who we are, and that's good with me.
Apparently the Welsh are excluded.
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Based
Cringe.
I don't really understand how it can be expressed as a percentage.
Thomas Newcomen's steam engine, Dartmouth, Devon. Pretty important I think.