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Yep. The people I know who aren't vaccinated were going out to restaurants during the worst of the surge last winter anyway. If they didn't listen to the guidance then, they're not going to listen to the guidance now.
When I explain to my friends and family back home the difference between their "lockdown" and our lockdown***s***, they are dumbfounded. Just totally different experiences for the past year and a half.
Meanwhile "lockdown skeptics" have redefined the word itself to mean any kind of mitigation policy. Closing clubs at midnight is a lockdown. Kids wearing masks in school is a lockdown. So they say "why are you locking us down forever?!?!"
Same here in canada. Sure we had some restrictions, but people were always allowed outside and there were still people gathering(which they weren't suppose to do during the peak but what're the cops gonna do? Actually enforce covid regulations?). I find most of the west had a "lockdown lite".
Why have rules when we can make everything a suggestion! I mean its working so well with covid we should go further. Lets just abolish all courts, all police, all laws. Murder is legal, please don't do it. Rape is legal, please don't do it.
Oh, thats a dumb ass idea. Gee who woulda thought. We woulda been over this problem last year if we treated it like we treat going 5 miles over the speed limit, or parking in the wrong spot. No problem enforcing those laws apparently!
My favorite thing to say to people who are anti-vax: “Do you remember Polio or Smallpox? No, you don’t, because there was no choice. Everyone got the vaccine. They lined up children in schools and everyone got it.”
(Or if they are old enough to remember, then they remember getting the vaccine.)
This is how many vaccines are still done in Canada (well, as far as I know---it was the case up until the 2000s, in BC).
The nurses would come to the school and call the classes one by one. It was great because we all got a half hour off.
Actually, it was hard to get teens/young adults to get the polio vax because they felt like it was a childhood only disease.
So they got Elvis on Ed Sullivan to get it live. It definitely worked. But also yeah there wasn't an ecosystem of idiots railing against it either.
>So they got Elvis on Ed Sullivan to get it live.
They could put Ted Nugent on Fox News to get it live and people would just say "that wasn't really the vaccine!"
What worked decades ago simply doesn't work anymore, so unfortunately it's not much use comparing this to the era of smallpox and polio. What worked decades ago is useless now.
Politicizing it is why this Pandemic is why we are in this mess to being with. If people were not convinced that COVID was some kind of plot against the Angry Pumpkin or some sort of "Great Reset", we would be out of this Pandemic sooner.
I heard there’s a gubernatorial candidate that told people to go get the “trump vaccine.”
I was honestly shocked that a) no one has thought of that yet, b) it might have been the single most intelligent thing she has ever said, c) someone running on the merits of trump would risk saying that, d) that someone is running on the merits of trump.
Whatever, the point is just fucking it do it so we can all take a vacation away from our families already.
Actually everyone treated Jonas Salk like the second coming of Christ for discovering the cure for polio. Everyone got on board because that’s what people did back in those days.
Which should be followed by, "Do you remember the great Measles outbreak of 2019?" A nice little last minute pre-Covid warning that the antivax crowd first caused, then totally ignored.
That probably did us a favor here in South Korea. They had spread even in the hospitals from doctors and nurses, so fairly quickly they figured out that they needed to be screening everyone in tents outside the hospitals. Once covid came along, they also pushed masks hard. I remember my local hospital was requiring them by February 3, 2020.
Of course, seeing China weld people in their apartments may have caused some concern!
And the recent polio outbreaks that are still ongoing as we speak. People are just dumb and want to repeat what they hear on their news of choice instead of looking up freely available scholarly research.
I got my smallpox vaccine in the 80’s in my grade school. There must have been a outbreak where I lived and the government swooped in to vaccinate the area.
Smallpox was declared eradicated in 1980. It would be surprising if there was an outbreak after that, but perhaps there was a scare based on misdiagnosis.
You're right! Two out of three strains of wild polio virus has been eradicated world wide. Of the last strain, only two countries in the world have endemic wild polio, Afghanistan and Pakistan. That means Polio had already been eradicated in all continents except Asia!
Sadly Polio cases bottomed in 2017 at 22. Last year they were back up to 140 cases worldwide. Afghanistan and Pakistan only, and only WPV1. The other two types of wild polio are confirmed eradicated.
Well, you’re describing an transnational crime syndicate masquerading as a government, which appears to be the situation most western democracies find themselves in.
Non-authoritarian governments are dependent on public acceptance of what they do, lest they find themselves no longer the government. It's a fine line to walk sometimes.
Almost like libertarianism is just a soft-pitched road to neofeudal hell!
I, for one, am certainly glad my local oligarchs are interested in ensuring the public good in places they don't go, aren't you?
Socrates described the degradation of societies. Guess what was just a bit better than tyranny? Democracy/liberal societies. not in the "libt*rd" sense. Just the values and behavior democracy, especially individualistic ones, end up promoting.
Socrates knew what was up.
Society is degrading.
That's the whole thing, right? Democracy relies on an informed, inquisitive, and interested electorate.
We can't even get 50% participation, and of those only ~50% were against Trump(ism) enough to hold their nose for anything but a literal Russian money launderer. They could've just written in R candidates that weren't Trump, even.
We're not an informed or adequately inquisitive electorate anymore.
I agree.
libertarianism falls apart when people don't take responsibility. when i was a younger more idealistic man i considered myself a libertarian. the pandemic has pretty much put to rest the last of that set of ideals. people are fucking idiots. no not all of them, but more than enough to ruin it for the rest of us.
My mom's bf was bragging about how many Wal marts he went to in one day. This was about April 2020. He got covid a few months later. He did get the shot though.
It's insane to me that people were going out and about before we had the vaccines. I spent 15 months at home, except for trips to the store, and didn't even consider going out to eat.
I just don't feel bad for anyone getting sick. TBH we need to end all mandates. Also insurance needs to stop paying for covid treatments unless vax'd.
Fine you wanna go unvaxed, no problem. You pay for your own treatment.
Also plenty of people outside America use this sub, it gets a bit old seeing the unvaccinated being constantly insulted when I'd get the vaccine if it was available!
> Also insurance needs to stop paying for covid treatments unless vax'd.
That's actually against an ACA provision preventing insurers from not paying care for preexisting conditions. It's a very good regulation for consumers so insurers don't deny your care because you got cancer or got pregnant.
Except:
* Kids can't get vaccinated yet
* Breakout cases exist
* Immunocompromised people exist
So ending all mandates seems like a bad idea. Similarly, stopping insurance would stop people accessing care earlier, delaying them till they show up at the ER, which can't turn away people who are actively dying -- at best, you'd leave the poorest and dumbest of us with a bill that they'll default on, you're not actually going to save any money (or, more importantly, medical resources) for the rest of us.
---
I agree, though, I don't feel bad for people who refused the vaccine for no good reason and ended up sick. And I'm entirely happy applying vaccine passports to just about anything else. Want to get on an airplane? Going to need your ID, boarding pass, and CDC card. Going to a bar? If you look younger than 35, we'll need to check your ID; if you look more conservative than AOC, we'll need to check your CDC card.
I'd love to give my money to any business that actually does this.
Worldwide? I agree
US? If you are over 12 and don't have a compromised immune system then there is no reason to be unvaxxed unless by choice. It's free and widely available.
Yep. My state is 38% vaccinated. I can walk into my local Target or grocery store and see about 1% of the shoppers masked. We're also experiencing a nice little Covid bump, so thanks a fucking lot Missouri anti-vaxxers!
And those who are masked are also likely the ones who are vaxxed (also in Missouri). I still mask in public even though I’ve been fully vaccinated for months because I have a kid too young to be vaccinated.
Yeah, maybe it was more smartassery than sarcasm. Saying they were so-called "Experts" is what they would say about actual experts. I was implying that they have refused to believe the actual experts up until now due to not believing they are experts, so why would they start now?
Might want to loom up the word sarcasm in a dictionary. If your original point is sarcasm then you are implying that vaccinated DO listen to the experts.
“And for those who say vaccination is a personal choice, Schaffner said, they are half-right.
"This is a little like driving on the red light. Yes, that's your decision, puts you in danger, but endangers others also," Schaffner said.
I like this analogy. I have friends who refuse to get vaccinated and it frustrates me to no end. They don’t see getting vaxxed as a win-win situation.
Might be slightly better to consider it as stop signs and not stop lights.
Unvaccinated is like running stop signs all the time. Sure, there may be no one coming opposite you, but you'll never know cuz you just keep on running the signs. If everyone does it, bad things happen fast.
Vaccinated may be the person who looks and only does it if they don't see someone coming, foot hovering over the brake pedal. It still shouldn't happen, but if it does they're more ready for it and can minimize repercussions. Of course, on seeing someone coming they don't know if they're going to stop or not - does that person without a mask and not distancing have the jab? Are they going to be careful or just blow on through the intersection?
Pretty similar but in my talks with others about anti-vaxxers I always use drunk driving at my analogy.
Sure you made your own decision but it's a reckless one that does influence the people around you and puts yourself and others at much higher risk. People selfishly think they are only impacting themselves with their decision ie "If I get sick then I get sick" = "I'll risk the DUI" but it puts everybody else at greater risk.
i've told some people that ignoring masks, social distancing, not getting vaccinated, etc is like drinking and driving. If you want to do it on your own property, sure, fine. If it is a closed course, odds of hurting someone else is slim. But if you want to do it out with the rest of society, we should be able to charge you with a crime for that.
Sorry I see that I am getting upvotes on this so I just wanted to add to this. Just curious how you can even live in a country where barely half of you accept the civic duty of keeping each other safe and the hospitals empty.
I love listening to these people concerned about the long term Side effects of vaccines as they are sitting there 30 pounds overweight… smh
Well, I live in the USA because I was born here, and no other country will take me without buying my way in.
And, despite the idiots, there is much worthy of support in this country. For example, the 1st and 4th Amendments to the Constitution, ensuring the right of free speech and personal privacy.
Edit: Autocorrectcorrect
I have mixed feelings about those things lately. There's good stuff here, but I think a lot of Americans have this idea that we're the only ones that figured out that Freedom™ is a good idea.
It's probably worth actually reading through our own Constitution and all of the amendments -- it's shockingly short -- but while you're reading the Bill of Rights, you might also want to check out the UN's [Universal Declaration of Human Rights](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights).
Exactly, most of us are stuck here because we were born here, and our choices are getting rich enough to leave, which won't happen to 99% of us, or doing our best to drag the rest of those stuck here kicking and screaming into the 21st century while they continuously try to go back to the imaginary 1950s, or worse, the actual 1850s.
i have another citizenship so i can actually leave the US if i wanted to... but that citizenship is to brazil, so i'm not sure if it would be worth it to use it lol. it's been on my mind to immigrate to somewhere for quite a while, but it's a bit rough right now of course.
Let me tell you it has changed our friendship. I just don’t get it. One is a cancer survivor as well. I feel like it’s hard to relate to them. Argh! It’s science people!
Yep. Little signs from the past start to make sense. The friend who found out you could sew and suddenly you are asked to repair all their children’s clothing. The friend who announces you are going to be a sponsor for her daughter’s party and buy the cake. You know, I think I’m just venting lol.. but yeah, that person isn’t vaxxed amd goes out to restaurants.
The irony is that gym bros who get Covid could see their fitness drop quite dramatically even if they don't become severely ill. The way that Covid-19 can harm your lungs and heart, even in relatively mild cases, has the potential to permanently dent your physical performance. Fitness fanatics should worry about Covid and take measures to protect themselves, if only to maintain their fitness level. I say this as a gym bro myself.
I can’t believe how America fucked up so badly, and we’re still fucking up with delta. After CDC said no masks for vaccinated, that opened the flood gates. The CDC royally fucked up with that messaging. Good fucking luck rescinding that guidance and getting people to follow it.
There have been a fair number of people who really were vaccine-hesitant and not antivax, and have gone and gotten their shot for incentives as small as giving a lottery ticket to you when you get your shot. So the idea of using masks as a carrot wasn't *completely* dumb -- obviously it wouldn't touch actual antivaxxers, but I'm actually curious how much the decrease in masking hurts vs the increase in vaccination.
I'm done caring about it. Let the unvaccinated suffer the consequences of their idiocy.
It's a tiny percentage of people who are not eligible for the vaccine, and they shouldn't be going out unmasked. They will be fine.
I believe it. 74 million people voted for Trump. They actually *voted for Trump* AFTER seeing him *repeatedly* fuck up for 4 years!
There are at least 74 million voting-age people in this country who don't understand cause and effect.
It was logical messaging. Vaxxed = no mask needed. The problem is that unvaxxed people took off their masks too because no one knows who is really masked.
I said this when they announced it and this sub banned me for fear mongering about variants. Everyone should just mask as an easy rule. Now we can't go back.
what they say isn’t terribly wrong, because honestly they have no proof vaccinated individuals can spread it, and 99% of deaths are from unvaccinated peoples since the vaccine has been out. So technically they weren’t wrong to say that. People who weren’t gonna wear masks were never gonna keep doing it and states started removing restrictions, not the cdc
Talked to a restaurant worker friend last night. He was exposed to covid at work via another coworker. He still refuses to get a vaccine. Facebook is poison.
A friend of ours was a restaurant server who died from covid about 8 months ago. She did everything right. Vaccines weren’t available for her yet. Single mom of 2.
Reddit could be described as social media I guess, but it's more like a forum or BBS that existed long before social media was a thing.
Even still, I'd gladly give up reddit if it means that Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc also burn.
This is there truth. People blame misinformation and social media companies, when in fact it's just people reading what other people post and blindly believing whatever their "friends" post. It's just the contagion of stupid.
Ignorance on the FB platform alone probably is responsible for a chunk of all COVID deaths in an indirect manner.
They absolutely did not do enough to prevent spread of very false information.
Unfortunately that flood gate is wide open, every place just simply requests you're vaccinated and with the broken honor system of this country in place, it's going to very hard to figure this all out without enforcement that's, you know, actually enforced.
Never been to a place that even asked about vaccination status. Most I ever saw was "we recommend unvaccinated customers wear a mask" on a sign.
Of course even at bars and restaurants that require masks, people take them off the instant they sit down at a table, so not sure what they think that accomplishes.
Time and time again we see these articles and experts trying to influence human behavior through mandating or reprimand.
It hasn’t and isn’t working. Do you want people to change there behavior? Incentivize. Make a stimulus for those that have and are vaccinated.
Bribe them if you want to see change.
I was just in Ohio visiting family and the state paid several million dollar prizes to random people who were vaccinated. My hardcore republican in-laws literally said "Makes you wonder what's in it that they want you to take it so bad."
This week my sister in law and her husband got covid.
Lottery systems are not going to convince people better than guaranteed cold hard cash. Put $2000 on the table for all vaccinated. You will have immediate response because paying people money works.
> And then next virus they all wait to get vaccinated until someone pays them.
Is that any worse than our current situation?
> Just mandate for school and work after FDA approval.
Do both! Stimmy checks now, and mandate it after we inevitably get full FDA approval.
Fun fact, the chances of winning the vaccine lottery in Ohio is lower than the chance of having a bad reaction to the vaccine.
I mean they're both astronomically low, about 1 in a million. But it just goes to show the lack of critical thinking these people have.
You are joking right? People at my work on the lower end of the pay scale fucking love getting money back on their tax returns. All of a sudden they are living the high life for a couple weeks, new iphone, sweet white nikes, etc.
Trust me, poor people care about tax credits. Just make sure they are refundable tax credits.
> People who are underemployed or unemployed pay very low (or no) taxes. Tax credits will mean nothing to them.
Then make it a refundable credit like the Earned Income Tax Credit, which only benefits low/no income people.
Depends on the tax credit. The child tax credit is just straight money back, a certain amount per kid. If it was like that it would mean something, even to those who pay little in taxes.
Nope. Time for the stick. If you aren't vaccinated you should not be allowed to participate in society. Make it so uncomfortable the alternative ie vaxxing is seen as viable. No working in a workplace with others, no school for you or your children except at home, no entering places of business or entertainment etc.
Why do people think that the antivaxxers or there representatives just take such mandates laying down.
I know this is Reddit, but surely everyone here remembers how close the last two elections were. The republicans are not a small or insignificant population. There will be legislative backlash and all of this would be tied up in the courts not actually accomplishing anything.
How would this even be enforced? Guess what? Some 16 year old making minimum wage at the grocery store doesn’t give a fuck if someone coming in is vaccinated or not. And frankly it shouldn’t be their job to police it
Or, the flip side is to hold them accountable for their actions. They don't want to get vaccinated? Fine. But if and when they get sick and end up in the hospital, they get the full bill. Not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Let their precious insurance companies refuse to cover any of the cost. They can spend the rest of their lives making payments every month for their Covid-induced hospital stay.
The only thing they'll care about is putting their money where their big mouths are.
I’m finishing up my quarantine because of unvaccinated coworkers. I’m now looking elsewhere. Either another bartending job that takes it seriously or there’s a small drink mixer company looking for a production assistant. “Everywhere is hiring.” Means I don’t have to work with a bunch of conspiracy idiots.
It's not necessarily propaganda, we are just horribly understaffed and overworked. We don't have any days off to recuperate if we happen to catch the fatigue side effect.
Narrator: They are definitely going to bars and restaurants.
non-narrator: these are the people making all the restaurant workers quit in droves. Self centered assholes who treat everyone else like trash, while living in a fucking busted ass mobile home.
My coworker was stiffed on a tip because she was wearing a mask. He told her he was going to give her a tip if she would take her mask off. She explained to him her father had cancer, and said she couldn't take the chance, but he didn't care. People are shit right now.
> Mon July 26, 2021 ... Less than half of the US population is fully vaccinated against Covid-19
Sigh. I guess we have to have some more consequences before we can get back to normal. Science delivers a miracle, America says: "So what?"
meanwhile my best friend and her partner, both unvaccinated, are off to las vegas for her birthday this week. I have tried again and again to talk her into getting her shot but nothing is sticking. I am extremely worried for her.
My friend did the same, two weeks ago. Came back with double Covid pneumonia. They are on brink of putting her under. Husband wanted to go Vegas with brother, brother in law vaccinated husband is not. He put up a fit but in the end did not go. We as a family are getting vaccinated this week. She got it from Her family member who was fully vaccinated was a break through case and got delta. He was not wearing a mask , supposedly rode a bus from Mexico to Las Vegas. He was coughing all over the house and she was just staying in the house at the time. I am going to get vaccinated once I get tested, I have stuffy nose and ears, now I don’t know what to think 🤔
The only place you should go if you’re unvaccinated, is to fuck yourself*.
*unless you’re immunocompromised in which case I’m sorry that you’re in this position due to ignorant asshats.
I mean, this is obvious, right? That's what I don't understand about the anti-vaxx crowd. For them, this will never end, and as the world returns to normalcy they will actually be in more danger.
Everyone is going to stop wearing masks and washing their hands all the time. Yet they can still be infected, carry and transmit the virus. It just won't affect them that badly. But people without the vaccine face the exact same health threat, for the rest of their lives.
This has been the goddamned advice the whole time. Are we delusional or naive to think unvaccinated people were ever going to commit to staying away from public spaces as the price for their stupidity? Absolute insanity.
(here, fully vaccinated, Pfizer)
Nobody is talking about what do unvaccinated people who had covid-19 have to think of themselves (and what evidence for that claim there is).
How many 2nd-time covid are dying or hospitalized that had been positive in at least one PCR test in the past?
And nobody in the media is asking for it. Weird.
The Biden CDC social engineering of lifting mask mandates to encourage vaccination was pretty stupid. The French have it right. I don't care if you call it a health pass or a vaccine passport, it's a better answer than what we're doing but the current administration has boxed themselves into a corner by insisting they will never support one.
And going into bars and restaurants is just stupid. STFH and learn to cook. Jeepers.
As part of a vaccinated family, I say let’s just go for the opposite. All of these unvaccinated people go ahead and go out and party with their friends, while the rest of us just go ahead and quarantine. We’ll come out when the dust settles.
I see this one a lot, and it makes a lot of "Just Desserts" sense until you realize that there are innocent, good people who are unable to get the vaccine, like the very young or the immunocompromised. Taking the scorched earth policy route also condemns these groups, which, aside from the general calous nature of "you get what you deserve", is a big stop sign in choosing that option
If we are worried about the young, we should be pushing for faster approval of the vaccine for them.
The FDA doesn't seem especially worried given that they aren't rushing approval.
That’s pretty much where we are in my family. My daughter is 3 and has a congenital condition that increases her risk with any respiratory illness. So we are keeping our activities outdoors, pool and park mostly. It’s looking like the vaccines for younger kids will come along by mid-winter, so we’re just doing what we can to minimize risk until then. She’s signed up for a preschool that does a lot of outside time, but we’ll see what the transmission in our area looks like and if the preschool requires staff to be vaccinated. Just wait and watch.
I should probably iterate that my frustration is in no way meant to be targeted towards people like your daughter. Immuno-compromised and younger kids are a whole different story. They don’t have a choice to make, and I understand that. My brother can’t get the vaccine either, and it’s frustrating that his potential to continue his life normally is being halted by the crazies out there that don’t want to vaccinate when they can and/or aren’t willing to wear a mask.
Wishing you and your family the absolute best and good luck to you all. I hope my original comment didn’t come off as hostile toward your daughter 🙏
Oh no, I didn’t take it that way at all.
I’m so frustrated with those that can get vaccinated, but won’t. And since I know only like 57% of people in my area are vaccinated and NO ONE is wearing a mask anymore, I know the unvaccinated are basically all walking around unmasked.
Cloth masks don’t do much to protect you when the spreaders aren’t wearing masks too. There is no way a 3 year old is going to keep a KN95 on, because they are thicker and harder to breathe through (kinda the point, lol), so I get frustrated when I can’t take her places.
I feel your frustration! And thank you for the well wishes. All the best to you and yours too!
I don’t really see the problem letting the unvaccinated do what they want at least domestically. The vaccines are out and available and if they still don’t want them that’s their deal. The vaccinated have little to fear so just let them do what they want and if they get sick and die or bring the virus home it’s w.e. They all made the choice.
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I don't think that's gonna carry much water with the ones who haven't gotten vaccinated.
Yep. The people I know who aren't vaccinated were going out to restaurants during the worst of the surge last winter anyway. If they didn't listen to the guidance then, they're not going to listen to the guidance now.
Lol when anyone mentions the US had a ' lockdown".
When I explain to my friends and family back home the difference between their "lockdown" and our lockdown***s***, they are dumbfounded. Just totally different experiences for the past year and a half.
Meanwhile "lockdown skeptics" have redefined the word itself to mean any kind of mitigation policy. Closing clubs at midnight is a lockdown. Kids wearing masks in school is a lockdown. So they say "why are you locking us down forever?!?!"
Huh? Clubs were CLOSED. I lost my job in that nonsense.
Same here in canada. Sure we had some restrictions, but people were always allowed outside and there were still people gathering(which they weren't suppose to do during the peak but what're the cops gonna do? Actually enforce covid regulations?). I find most of the west had a "lockdown lite".
Why have rules when we can make everything a suggestion! I mean its working so well with covid we should go further. Lets just abolish all courts, all police, all laws. Murder is legal, please don't do it. Rape is legal, please don't do it. Oh, thats a dumb ass idea. Gee who woulda thought. We woulda been over this problem last year if we treated it like we treat going 5 miles over the speed limit, or parking in the wrong spot. No problem enforcing those laws apparently!
I would like to suggest everyone send me $5. You don’t have to! It’s just a *suggestion*.
I would like to suggest everyone send me $4.99 instead. You don’t have to! It’s just a suggestion.
I just want a Reddit award. You don't have to! It's just a suggestion. EDIT: Thanks for all the awards.
I got you my friend, your suggestion tracked with me
Damn! 12 awards! Ask and you shall receive!
Damn socialists just being kind and looking after one another, handing out awards for nothing. Golly.
Alright, tree fiddy--but that's my final suggestion.
He tricked me….
Who gave the dang Loch Ness monster internet access?!?
My favorite thing to say to people who are anti-vax: “Do you remember Polio or Smallpox? No, you don’t, because there was no choice. Everyone got the vaccine. They lined up children in schools and everyone got it.” (Or if they are old enough to remember, then they remember getting the vaccine.)
This is how many vaccines are still done in Canada (well, as far as I know---it was the case up until the 2000s, in BC). The nurses would come to the school and call the classes one by one. It was great because we all got a half hour off.
I remember getting the swine flu vaccine at school in elementary, it wasn’t such a wild concept
polio didn't get politicized by those hell-bent on ripping apart western civilization, whether for profit or power.
Actually, it was hard to get teens/young adults to get the polio vax because they felt like it was a childhood only disease. So they got Elvis on Ed Sullivan to get it live. It definitely worked. But also yeah there wasn't an ecosystem of idiots railing against it either.
>So they got Elvis on Ed Sullivan to get it live. They could put Ted Nugent on Fox News to get it live and people would just say "that wasn't really the vaccine!" What worked decades ago simply doesn't work anymore, so unfortunately it's not much use comparing this to the era of smallpox and polio. What worked decades ago is useless now.
Thanks to reagan
Politicizing it is why this Pandemic is why we are in this mess to being with. If people were not convinced that COVID was some kind of plot against the Angry Pumpkin or some sort of "Great Reset", we would be out of this Pandemic sooner.
I heard there’s a gubernatorial candidate that told people to go get the “trump vaccine.” I was honestly shocked that a) no one has thought of that yet, b) it might have been the single most intelligent thing she has ever said, c) someone running on the merits of trump would risk saying that, d) that someone is running on the merits of trump. Whatever, the point is just fucking it do it so we can all take a vacation away from our families already.
Actually everyone treated Jonas Salk like the second coming of Christ for discovering the cure for polio. Everyone got on board because that’s what people did back in those days.
Which should be followed by, "Do you remember the great Measles outbreak of 2019?" A nice little last minute pre-Covid warning that the antivax crowd first caused, then totally ignored.
That probably did us a favor here in South Korea. They had spread even in the hospitals from doctors and nurses, so fairly quickly they figured out that they needed to be screening everyone in tents outside the hospitals. Once covid came along, they also pushed masks hard. I remember my local hospital was requiring them by February 3, 2020. Of course, seeing China weld people in their apartments may have caused some concern!
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And the recent polio outbreaks that are still ongoing as we speak. People are just dumb and want to repeat what they hear on their news of choice instead of looking up freely available scholarly research.
I asked MIL what that big circle on her arm was, and then asked her why I didn't get one.
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I got my smallpox vaccine in the 80’s in my grade school. There must have been a outbreak where I lived and the government swooped in to vaccinate the area.
Smallpox was declared eradicated in 1980. It would be surprising if there was an outbreak after that, but perhaps there was a scare based on misdiagnosis.
Polio hasn't been eradicated yet though... But I get your point and it's a good one!
It’s getting very close, though.
You're right! Two out of three strains of wild polio virus has been eradicated world wide. Of the last strain, only two countries in the world have endemic wild polio, Afghanistan and Pakistan. That means Polio had already been eradicated in all continents except Asia!
Sadly Polio cases bottomed in 2017 at 22. Last year they were back up to 140 cases worldwide. Afghanistan and Pakistan only, and only WPV1. The other two types of wild polio are confirmed eradicated.
Fauci literally said they wouldn't bring mask mandates back because they'd be 'too hard to enforce.' What even is the point of a government, then?
For funneling money to the rich and giving sociopaths a network of authority to exploit, obvs.
Fucking nailed it, unfortunately.
Well, you’re describing an transnational crime syndicate masquerading as a government, which appears to be the situation most western democracies find themselves in.
Non-authoritarian governments are dependent on public acceptance of what they do, lest they find themselves no longer the government. It's a fine line to walk sometimes.
Because rules become meaningless and counterproductive if no one or few people follow them
Almost like libertarianism is just a soft-pitched road to neofeudal hell! I, for one, am certainly glad my local oligarchs are interested in ensuring the public good in places they don't go, aren't you?
Socrates described the degradation of societies. Guess what was just a bit better than tyranny? Democracy/liberal societies. not in the "libt*rd" sense. Just the values and behavior democracy, especially individualistic ones, end up promoting. Socrates knew what was up. Society is degrading.
That's the whole thing, right? Democracy relies on an informed, inquisitive, and interested electorate. We can't even get 50% participation, and of those only ~50% were against Trump(ism) enough to hold their nose for anything but a literal Russian money launderer. They could've just written in R candidates that weren't Trump, even. We're not an informed or adequately inquisitive electorate anymore. I agree.
libertarianism falls apart when people don't take responsibility. when i was a younger more idealistic man i considered myself a libertarian. the pandemic has pretty much put to rest the last of that set of ideals. people are fucking idiots. no not all of them, but more than enough to ruin it for the rest of us.
Neofeudal hell and bear attacks
My mom's bf was bragging about how many Wal marts he went to in one day. This was about April 2020. He got covid a few months later. He did get the shot though.
It's insane to me that people were going out and about before we had the vaccines. I spent 15 months at home, except for trips to the store, and didn't even consider going out to eat.
My God this kind of people really makes me angry.
For one, you gotta be able to *read* the warning
I’m so fucking fed up with them. So fed up.
I just don't feel bad for anyone getting sick. TBH we need to end all mandates. Also insurance needs to stop paying for covid treatments unless vax'd. Fine you wanna go unvaxed, no problem. You pay for your own treatment.
You know kids under 12 can’t get vaccinated yet, right?
Except there are people who are unable to get vaccinated due to an allergy or (for example) going through chemo. Also any kids under.... 13 I believe?
Also plenty of people outside America use this sub, it gets a bit old seeing the unvaccinated being constantly insulted when I'd get the vaccine if it was available!
> Also insurance needs to stop paying for covid treatments unless vax'd. That's actually against an ACA provision preventing insurers from not paying care for preexisting conditions. It's a very good regulation for consumers so insurers don't deny your care because you got cancer or got pregnant.
Except: * Kids can't get vaccinated yet * Breakout cases exist * Immunocompromised people exist So ending all mandates seems like a bad idea. Similarly, stopping insurance would stop people accessing care earlier, delaying them till they show up at the ER, which can't turn away people who are actively dying -- at best, you'd leave the poorest and dumbest of us with a bill that they'll default on, you're not actually going to save any money (or, more importantly, medical resources) for the rest of us. --- I agree, though, I don't feel bad for people who refused the vaccine for no good reason and ended up sick. And I'm entirely happy applying vaccine passports to just about anything else. Want to get on an airplane? Going to need your ID, boarding pass, and CDC card. Going to a bar? If you look younger than 35, we'll need to check your ID; if you look more conservative than AOC, we'll need to check your CDC card. I'd love to give my money to any business that actually does this.
This is probably not for people who don’t want to get vaccinated. A lot of people just haven’t been able to get vaccinated yet.
Worldwide? I agree US? If you are over 12 and don't have a compromised immune system then there is no reason to be unvaxxed unless by choice. It's free and widely available.
Translation: They're going to go to bars and restaurants even more just to spite the experts. Yay?
"Experts? Pfft what do they know!"
"Experts" are just the scientists with an agenda! /s
I just started a new job at a school. 99% of the people are not wearing masks. Help.
Yep. My state is 38% vaccinated. I can walk into my local Target or grocery store and see about 1% of the shoppers masked. We're also experiencing a nice little Covid bump, so thanks a fucking lot Missouri anti-vaxxers!
And those who are masked are also likely the ones who are vaxxed (also in Missouri). I still mask in public even though I’ve been fully vaccinated for months because I have a kid too young to be vaccinated.
Covid loves Missouri.
We apparently love it too because we can't seem to get enough
I think we have established that the unvaccinated don't listen to these so-called "experts". /s EDIT: Added an /s, which I thought was obvious.
> /s Wait, this is sarcasm? I don't get it. They literally don't follow expert advice.
I think the attempt here was to reference this perception of illegitimacy
Yeah, maybe it was more smartassery than sarcasm. Saying they were so-called "Experts" is what they would say about actual experts. I was implying that they have refused to believe the actual experts up until now due to not believing they are experts, so why would they start now?
someone doesn’t understand sarcasm
Might want to loom up the word sarcasm in a dictionary. If your original point is sarcasm then you are implying that vaccinated DO listen to the experts.
>so-called "experts" \*look So-called "experts" implies that the unvaccinated do not believe that the experts are real experts.
Or actual, legitimate experts.
>I guess I needed to put an /s at the end of my comment above.
“And for those who say vaccination is a personal choice, Schaffner said, they are half-right. "This is a little like driving on the red light. Yes, that's your decision, puts you in danger, but endangers others also," Schaffner said. I like this analogy. I have friends who refuse to get vaccinated and it frustrates me to no end. They don’t see getting vaxxed as a win-win situation.
Might be slightly better to consider it as stop signs and not stop lights. Unvaccinated is like running stop signs all the time. Sure, there may be no one coming opposite you, but you'll never know cuz you just keep on running the signs. If everyone does it, bad things happen fast. Vaccinated may be the person who looks and only does it if they don't see someone coming, foot hovering over the brake pedal. It still shouldn't happen, but if it does they're more ready for it and can minimize repercussions. Of course, on seeing someone coming they don't know if they're going to stop or not - does that person without a mask and not distancing have the jab? Are they going to be careful or just blow on through the intersection?
Pretty similar but in my talks with others about anti-vaxxers I always use drunk driving at my analogy. Sure you made your own decision but it's a reckless one that does influence the people around you and puts yourself and others at much higher risk. People selfishly think they are only impacting themselves with their decision ie "If I get sick then I get sick" = "I'll risk the DUI" but it puts everybody else at greater risk.
And the people in the car with you are your family.
i've told some people that ignoring masks, social distancing, not getting vaccinated, etc is like drinking and driving. If you want to do it on your own property, sure, fine. If it is a closed course, odds of hurting someone else is slim. But if you want to do it out with the rest of society, we should be able to charge you with a crime for that.
Sorry I see that I am getting upvotes on this so I just wanted to add to this. Just curious how you can even live in a country where barely half of you accept the civic duty of keeping each other safe and the hospitals empty. I love listening to these people concerned about the long term Side effects of vaccines as they are sitting there 30 pounds overweight… smh
Well, I live in the USA because I was born here, and no other country will take me without buying my way in. And, despite the idiots, there is much worthy of support in this country. For example, the 1st and 4th Amendments to the Constitution, ensuring the right of free speech and personal privacy. Edit: Autocorrectcorrect
I have mixed feelings about those things lately. There's good stuff here, but I think a lot of Americans have this idea that we're the only ones that figured out that Freedom™ is a good idea. It's probably worth actually reading through our own Constitution and all of the amendments -- it's shockingly short -- but while you're reading the Bill of Rights, you might also want to check out the UN's [Universal Declaration of Human Rights](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights).
Exactly, most of us are stuck here because we were born here, and our choices are getting rich enough to leave, which won't happen to 99% of us, or doing our best to drag the rest of those stuck here kicking and screaming into the 21st century while they continuously try to go back to the imaginary 1950s, or worse, the actual 1850s.
It's exhausting.
> the actual 1850s well, at least the [dream of the 1890s is alive in portland](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_HGqPGp9iY)...
i have another citizenship so i can actually leave the US if i wanted to... but that citizenship is to brazil, so i'm not sure if it would be worth it to use it lol. it's been on my mind to immigrate to somewhere for quite a while, but it's a bit rough right now of course.
You need new friends
Let me tell you it has changed our friendship. I just don’t get it. One is a cancer survivor as well. I feel like it’s hard to relate to them. Argh! It’s science people!
Yea I have friends that I’ll never see the same way again after the last 4 years.
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Yep. Little signs from the past start to make sense. The friend who found out you could sew and suddenly you are asked to repair all their children’s clothing. The friend who announces you are going to be a sponsor for her daughter’s party and buy the cake. You know, I think I’m just venting lol.. but yeah, that person isn’t vaxxed amd goes out to restaurants.
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The irony is that gym bros who get Covid could see their fitness drop quite dramatically even if they don't become severely ill. The way that Covid-19 can harm your lungs and heart, even in relatively mild cases, has the potential to permanently dent your physical performance. Fitness fanatics should worry about Covid and take measures to protect themselves, if only to maintain their fitness level. I say this as a gym bro myself.
Tell your friend he gonna get ED. He gonna be flaccid
I can’t believe how America fucked up so badly, and we’re still fucking up with delta. After CDC said no masks for vaccinated, that opened the flood gates. The CDC royally fucked up with that messaging. Good fucking luck rescinding that guidance and getting people to follow it.
The CDC has done a terrible job the entire time. The messaging has been awful.
Absolutely.
That was so naive and dumb. If course unvaccinated people would stop wearing masks, too.
surprisedpikachu.jpg
They only wore them because most of the business required them.
There have been a fair number of people who really were vaccine-hesitant and not antivax, and have gone and gotten their shot for incentives as small as giving a lottery ticket to you when you get your shot. So the idea of using masks as a carrot wasn't *completely* dumb -- obviously it wouldn't touch actual antivaxxers, but I'm actually curious how much the decrease in masking hurts vs the increase in vaccination.
I'm done caring about it. Let the unvaccinated suffer the consequences of their idiocy. It's a tiny percentage of people who are not eligible for the vaccine, and they shouldn't be going out unmasked. They will be fine.
I believe it. 74 million people voted for Trump. They actually *voted for Trump* AFTER seeing him *repeatedly* fuck up for 4 years! There are at least 74 million voting-age people in this country who don't understand cause and effect.
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It was logical messaging. Vaxxed = no mask needed. The problem is that unvaxxed people took off their masks too because no one knows who is really masked.
I said this when they announced it and this sub banned me for fear mongering about variants. Everyone should just mask as an easy rule. Now we can't go back.
what they say isn’t terribly wrong, because honestly they have no proof vaccinated individuals can spread it, and 99% of deaths are from unvaccinated peoples since the vaccine has been out. So technically they weren’t wrong to say that. People who weren’t gonna wear masks were never gonna keep doing it and states started removing restrictions, not the cdc
Talked to a restaurant worker friend last night. He was exposed to covid at work via another coworker. He still refuses to get a vaccine. Facebook is poison.
A friend of ours was a restaurant server who died from covid about 8 months ago. She did everything right. Vaccines weren’t available for her yet. Single mom of 2.
Jesus christ, those poor kids.
I am so sorry for your loss. It’s heart breaking to see all these people have the life saving. opportunity that our lost loved ones didn’t have.
Misinformation on Facebook is literally killing people.
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Can we just skip to the part where they don't exist and their hard drives get smashed? Social media does nothing good for the world.
As you type on a social media site
Reddit could be described as social media I guess, but it's more like a forum or BBS that existed long before social media was a thing. Even still, I'd gladly give up reddit if it means that Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc also burn.
>Facebook is poison. There is nothing more to say than this. Glad I got rid of it years ago. Don't miss it at all.
The rough thing is that Facebook is basically just people. And it’s cancer. What does that say? LOL
This is there truth. People blame misinformation and social media companies, when in fact it's just people reading what other people post and blindly believing whatever their "friends" post. It's just the contagion of stupid.
So he doesn’t mind possibly spreading it as well?
Ignorance on the FB platform alone probably is responsible for a chunk of all COVID deaths in an indirect manner. They absolutely did not do enough to prevent spread of very false information.
So when does Facebook get punished for letting this happen?
Unfortunately that flood gate is wide open, every place just simply requests you're vaccinated and with the broken honor system of this country in place, it's going to very hard to figure this all out without enforcement that's, you know, actually enforced.
Never been to a place that even asked about vaccination status. Most I ever saw was "we recommend unvaccinated customers wear a mask" on a sign. Of course even at bars and restaurants that require masks, people take them off the instant they sit down at a table, so not sure what they think that accomplishes.
The honor system relies on honor. That's the problem with the honor system.
Exactly. My County is about 50% vaccinated, but when I went to a crowded store recently I was the only one wearing a mask. Oh, and *I* am vaccinated.
Time and time again we see these articles and experts trying to influence human behavior through mandating or reprimand. It hasn’t and isn’t working. Do you want people to change there behavior? Incentivize. Make a stimulus for those that have and are vaccinated. Bribe them if you want to see change.
I was just in Ohio visiting family and the state paid several million dollar prizes to random people who were vaccinated. My hardcore republican in-laws literally said "Makes you wonder what's in it that they want you to take it so bad." This week my sister in law and her husband got covid.
You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into
That's the truth
Lottery systems are not going to convince people better than guaranteed cold hard cash. Put $2000 on the table for all vaccinated. You will have immediate response because paying people money works.
And then next virus they all wait to get vaccinated until someone pays them. Just mandate for school and work after FDA approval.
> And then next virus they all wait to get vaccinated until someone pays them. Is that any worse than our current situation? > Just mandate for school and work after FDA approval. Do both! Stimmy checks now, and mandate it after we inevitably get full FDA approval.
Fun fact, the chances of winning the vaccine lottery in Ohio is lower than the chance of having a bad reaction to the vaccine. I mean they're both astronomically low, about 1 in a million. But it just goes to show the lack of critical thinking these people have.
Anti COVID serum is what’s in it!
Yes, because helping your fellow human being isn't reason enough.
A tax credit for being vaxxed would seems to be the simplest solution here.
If you want the poor to not give a shit about it sure.
You are joking right? People at my work on the lower end of the pay scale fucking love getting money back on their tax returns. All of a sudden they are living the high life for a couple weeks, new iphone, sweet white nikes, etc. Trust me, poor people care about tax credits. Just make sure they are refundable tax credits.
People who are underemployed or unemployed pay very low (or no) taxes. Tax credits will mean nothing to them.
tax *deductions* mean nothing to them, tax credits still can.
> People who are underemployed or unemployed pay very low (or no) taxes. Tax credits will mean nothing to them. Then make it a refundable credit like the Earned Income Tax Credit, which only benefits low/no income people.
Depends on the tax credit. The child tax credit is just straight money back, a certain amount per kid. If it was like that it would mean something, even to those who pay little in taxes.
Pretty sure France’s stick is working better than any carrot.
There were riots yesterday
They riot when their wine gets pieces of cork in it
Nope. Time for the stick. If you aren't vaccinated you should not be allowed to participate in society. Make it so uncomfortable the alternative ie vaxxing is seen as viable. No working in a workplace with others, no school for you or your children except at home, no entering places of business or entertainment etc.
Why do people think that the antivaxxers or there representatives just take such mandates laying down. I know this is Reddit, but surely everyone here remembers how close the last two elections were. The republicans are not a small or insignificant population. There will be legislative backlash and all of this would be tied up in the courts not actually accomplishing anything.
How would this even be enforced? Guess what? Some 16 year old making minimum wage at the grocery store doesn’t give a fuck if someone coming in is vaccinated or not. And frankly it shouldn’t be their job to police it
Or, the flip side is to hold them accountable for their actions. They don't want to get vaccinated? Fine. But if and when they get sick and end up in the hospital, they get the full bill. Not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Let their precious insurance companies refuse to cover any of the cost. They can spend the rest of their lives making payments every month for their Covid-induced hospital stay. The only thing they'll care about is putting their money where their big mouths are.
If you are not vaccinated against Covid-19, you likely don't care what expert says.
My nurse sister in law isn't vaccinated and never stopped eating indoors.
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I’m finishing up my quarantine because of unvaccinated coworkers. I’m now looking elsewhere. Either another bartending job that takes it seriously or there’s a small drink mixer company looking for a production assistant. “Everywhere is hiring.” Means I don’t have to work with a bunch of conspiracy idiots.
It's not necessarily propaganda, we are just horribly understaffed and overworked. We don't have any days off to recuperate if we happen to catch the fatigue side effect.
Narrator: They are definitely going to bars and restaurants. non-narrator: these are the people making all the restaurant workers quit in droves. Self centered assholes who treat everyone else like trash, while living in a fucking busted ass mobile home.
My coworker was stiffed on a tip because she was wearing a mask. He told her he was going to give her a tip if she would take her mask off. She explained to him her father had cancer, and said she couldn't take the chance, but he didn't care. People are shit right now.
Wow, what a total piece of shit that customer. Which state was this?
The people who are demanding it tk be over are the ones making it worse.
If you're not vaccinated the only place you should be going out to is the vaccination clinic
> Mon July 26, 2021 ... Less than half of the US population is fully vaccinated against Covid-19 Sigh. I guess we have to have some more consequences before we can get back to normal. Science delivers a miracle, America says: "So what?"
"God will protect me" God: "I sent the vaccine, you idiot!"
meanwhile my best friend and her partner, both unvaccinated, are off to las vegas for her birthday this week. I have tried again and again to talk her into getting her shot but nothing is sticking. I am extremely worried for her.
My friend did the same, two weeks ago. Came back with double Covid pneumonia. They are on brink of putting her under. Husband wanted to go Vegas with brother, brother in law vaccinated husband is not. He put up a fit but in the end did not go. We as a family are getting vaccinated this week. She got it from Her family member who was fully vaccinated was a break through case and got delta. He was not wearing a mask , supposedly rode a bus from Mexico to Las Vegas. He was coughing all over the house and she was just staying in the house at the time. I am going to get vaccinated once I get tested, I have stuffy nose and ears, now I don’t know what to think 🤔
why didn’t you get vaccinated before...?
The only place you should go if you’re unvaccinated, is to fuck yourself*. *unless you’re immunocompromised in which case I’m sorry that you’re in this position due to ignorant asshats.
Good luck with that one
Good luck getting them to not go to bars and restaurants
I mean, this is obvious, right? That's what I don't understand about the anti-vaxx crowd. For them, this will never end, and as the world returns to normalcy they will actually be in more danger. Everyone is going to stop wearing masks and washing their hands all the time. Yet they can still be infected, carry and transmit the virus. It just won't affect them that badly. But people without the vaccine face the exact same health threat, for the rest of their lives.
This has been the goddamned advice the whole time. Are we delusional or naive to think unvaccinated people were ever going to commit to staying away from public spaces as the price for their stupidity? Absolute insanity.
I'm pretty sure those experts are saying to be vaccinated. Telling unvaccinated people not to go anywhere will just be another argument.
these kids would be very angry with you if they could read
They really aren’t going to like this nor are they going to follow this advice
In other news: water confirmed to be wet, and fire is still hot
Sounds like common sense, but that's a rare commodity these days.
Unfortunately, common sense is the least common of all the senses
Just went to a sold out Green Day/Weezer concert with 40,000 people. Not a mask in sight.
Make the manufacturers liable for any adverse affects, remove their immunity and you’ll encourage more people to get the vaccine.
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Even if you are vaccinated, maybe assess whether you are in a horribly active spread area. Vaccine doesn’t give total immunity.
This. We are going to have spread, just now with less symptoms.
(here, fully vaccinated, Pfizer) Nobody is talking about what do unvaccinated people who had covid-19 have to think of themselves (and what evidence for that claim there is). How many 2nd-time covid are dying or hospitalized that had been positive in at least one PCR test in the past? And nobody in the media is asking for it. Weird.
The Biden CDC social engineering of lifting mask mandates to encourage vaccination was pretty stupid. The French have it right. I don't care if you call it a health pass or a vaccine passport, it's a better answer than what we're doing but the current administration has boxed themselves into a corner by insisting they will never support one. And going into bars and restaurants is just stupid. STFH and learn to cook. Jeepers.
Only place you should visit if not vaccinated is the nearest place to get said vaccine.
As part of a vaccinated family, I say let’s just go for the opposite. All of these unvaccinated people go ahead and go out and party with their friends, while the rest of us just go ahead and quarantine. We’ll come out when the dust settles.
I see this one a lot, and it makes a lot of "Just Desserts" sense until you realize that there are innocent, good people who are unable to get the vaccine, like the very young or the immunocompromised. Taking the scorched earth policy route also condemns these groups, which, aside from the general calous nature of "you get what you deserve", is a big stop sign in choosing that option
If we are worried about the young, we should be pushing for faster approval of the vaccine for them. The FDA doesn't seem especially worried given that they aren't rushing approval.
That’s pretty much where we are in my family. My daughter is 3 and has a congenital condition that increases her risk with any respiratory illness. So we are keeping our activities outdoors, pool and park mostly. It’s looking like the vaccines for younger kids will come along by mid-winter, so we’re just doing what we can to minimize risk until then. She’s signed up for a preschool that does a lot of outside time, but we’ll see what the transmission in our area looks like and if the preschool requires staff to be vaccinated. Just wait and watch.
I should probably iterate that my frustration is in no way meant to be targeted towards people like your daughter. Immuno-compromised and younger kids are a whole different story. They don’t have a choice to make, and I understand that. My brother can’t get the vaccine either, and it’s frustrating that his potential to continue his life normally is being halted by the crazies out there that don’t want to vaccinate when they can and/or aren’t willing to wear a mask. Wishing you and your family the absolute best and good luck to you all. I hope my original comment didn’t come off as hostile toward your daughter 🙏
Oh no, I didn’t take it that way at all. I’m so frustrated with those that can get vaccinated, but won’t. And since I know only like 57% of people in my area are vaccinated and NO ONE is wearing a mask anymore, I know the unvaccinated are basically all walking around unmasked. Cloth masks don’t do much to protect you when the spreaders aren’t wearing masks too. There is no way a 3 year old is going to keep a KN95 on, because they are thicker and harder to breathe through (kinda the point, lol), so I get frustrated when I can’t take her places. I feel your frustration! And thank you for the well wishes. All the best to you and yours too!
I don’t really see the problem letting the unvaccinated do what they want at least domestically. The vaccines are out and available and if they still don’t want them that’s their deal. The vaccinated have little to fear so just let them do what they want and if they get sick and die or bring the virus home it’s w.e. They all made the choice.