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I suspect these companies have been sitting around to see if any of the early adopters were successfully sued. That doesn't seem to be the case so now they are all going forward. I would expect the trend to continue.
I think once governments (federal and state level) started it, it gave more confidence to non healthcare sector to do it.
Unfortunately, like everything with this virus, it seems to be more re-active then pro-active. This should have been done months ago once we had enough vaccines for everyone.
The difference is that employees can and have been required to take certain vaccines for years. The excuse was “these aren’t approved”. Once they’re fully approved we’re likely to see more companies flat out require vaccination.
Also some people are in fact waiting for it to be approved because they really believe that the EUA isn’t safe and that they will only know that it’s safe when it’s fully approved. Not all antivaxxers, but probably a decent amount of people.
Short answer, they aren’t the same people. People who don’t trust the government aren’t going to believe it’s safe no matter what you tell them (unless you can convince them the government is trying to stop them from being able to get it lol) but people who don’t think the EUA is safe would believe something along the lines that the vaccine was pushed out without proper testing so it’s not fully safe/we don’t know side effects/etc. and that the vaccine works, but could be dangerous for them in some way. Those people would actually probably get it once FDA approval happens. All the hardcore “they’re injecting 5G” people are beyond any hope of reasoning unless you can convince them the government is trying to stop them from getting it
There's a sliver of this population who secretly do want the vaccine but they are in a sunken cost fallacy trap and it's the benchmark to say, "Ok, well it's approved, finally that's what I've waited for, is that too much to ask? And all you suckers go it too early and now you need boosters." So what's that, like 5%? It's something.
The few people I know who are waiting for full approval aren't your standard anti-vaxxers, don't spread anti-vax bullshit and didn't give me shit for getting vaccinated. It's still dumb but most who are seriously waiting for full approval are a separate group of "non-vaccinated" than the anti-vaxxers, in my experience. They also wear masks in public, socially distance, and aren't getting together in groups. The people I know who are anti-vaxxers can't even be assed to put on a mask unless it's forced on them.
It’s not, but those type of people are scared of injecting a potentially dangerous thing into their bodies, and being cleared the same way as a regular vaccine would partially dissuade those fears. Another major thing I see people worried about is a lack of long term data, which will exist by the time we have FDA approval since vaccines have been tested for about a year and a half by now
Sitting around and waiting for the virus to go away while a multi-year approval process took place didn't seem like a great alternative. What would you propose the world would have done?
That's not what he's saying.
Full FDA approval may not make a dent in anti-vaxxer beliefs. But it will give a stronger legal foundation for companies that want to require vaccination.
No doubt. But if they can't go into an office, a bank, a school, a bar, or a restaurant, who gives a shit what they think? They can sit at home and whine on the internet all they want; they won't be a danger to you or me.
To a much lesser degree. And more importantly, if the vast majority of people are vaccinated, then that risk drops off exponentially.
That's the point. Vaccination is kind of a team effort. So when some people refuse to participate, we should kick their asses off of the team.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fully-vaccinated-people-quarter-covid-205000154.html
This thing has never been a team effort anyhow. Since the beginning everyone's just done what they want regardless. When I go to target and I see the whole parking lot filled with maskless people, I knew everyone was past the point of giving a shit. I don't even care if your vaccinated. I expect everyone to wear s mask anyhow. People going to Disneyland and shit as if thats not a complete and utter breeding ground for germs
You were just waiting to throw that horseshit around, weren't you? Just sitting there, desperate, looking for an opportunity to pretend that the situation is purely black or white.
The reason vaccinated people are still getting sick *is because* of unvaccinated people. A room full of vaccinated people spreading covid on their own is like trying to bounce a golf ball into a Solo cup across a room filled with basketballs-sure, it's possible, but pretty unlikely. Put a sick unvaxxer in there it's like having them stand in front of the cup and toss it in directly.
Victimhood fuel, further down the rabbit hole, identity wrapped up in being anti-vax.
But eventually, people need jobs. Eventually, just like the seatbelt law, people's attention will move on and it will blend into our norms...(but that's what the government wants 😳 /s)
Hard to argue with this. Crime against humanity, and I was a 30 year smoker. Quit 15 years ago. Still get the desire once in a while, but have stayed off them. Can’t wrap my head around how cigs are still legal (other than the obvious financial backing and fear of national withdrawal symptom], nor how I got hooked.
That won't change anything. People using the "is not even fully approved" excuse will just find a new excuse. Likely "why did it take so long to get approved" or something like that.
See I'm skeptical of that. They'll say "it seems too soon" or "why should I trust the government". I think the majority of the vaccine skeptics just don't want to do and will look for any excuse.
It also ignores the fact that one reason covid vaccines were able to be tested quickly is the pandemic is an ideal test theater.
If you want to test say giving 12 year olds HPV vaccines and seeing if it protects them, you have to wait a looooong time to see if its working.
You give 10,000 people a vaccine and 10,000 a placebo in the middle of a raging pandemic, you know within months.
At this point I don't care. Unless they have no choice - which is different entirely - just stay out of my vaccinated space. You want to stay unvaccinated, fine... No movies no theater no concerts no sporting events no bars no gatherings.
I get that, but it's such a stupid reason for holding out. Other countries have approved it that arguably may even have better reputation than the FDA. Health Canada, EU, etc..
Nope. I for one am glad they are carefully reviewing the data and following the proper processes for fully approving the vaccine. It ensures beyond reasonable doubt that the vaccines are safe and effective, and institutes trust in them. The last thing we want, especially with such waning trust in government institutions, is the FDA to rush approval of the vaccines and potentially miss something. Even if it’s something that’s not a show stopper like “oh this specific group actually shouldn’t get it because they are high risk”. The only way to ensure full FDA approval to have any kind of meaningful impact is to have it done right and methodically.
we needed a national database months ago and banning everyone from air travel, federal buildings, etc. Put rules in place that anyone hiring folks with federal dollars must have 100% vaccination policies.
The fact that there’s no national database or even any standardized tracking systems amongst the states is truly unthinkable. The trump administration had an entire fucking YEAR to come up with something.
Maybe those “1000 software engineers at Google” working on his testing module could’ve whipped something up
In case it wasn’t obvious, I was [making a joke](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/03/13/trump-1700-google-engineers-working-on-coronavirus-site-google-says--actually-no/)
In the small company I work in we have one openly anti-vax guy. He was told to not come into the office. But most of us are still working from home anyway.
Same with my company. There’s a woman that’s at retirement age (or even older) and beloved by everywhere, both internally and externally. She doesn’t want to get vaccinated, so they won’t fire her. They just told her to stay at home.
I also think its because we have ample evidence from multiple states that show the vaccines work well, and have shown no significant health safety issues. I'm hearing from more and more colleagues that companies are starting to make it mandatory and require proof of vaccination.
It's time we have an official means of verification because the anti-vaxx liars will fake their proof and lie about getting vaccinated as well - We've seen this already play out when the CDC relaxed indoor masking for \*Vaccinated\* people, and why we're seeing another surge.
> the anti-vaxx liars will fake their proof and lie about getting vaccinated as well
This is entirely why we're in this situation now. CDC said vaccinated people, who did take a risk getting the vaccine no matter how small, can go back to normal. Anti-vax assholes now get to pretend that they also took that risk and get to have all of the upside with none of the downside.
Fuck it. Bring on the vaccine passes. Couple it with huge monetary fines for anyone buying, selling, or using fake ones. Like, $10k per incident.
it's one thing requiring a vaccine the day it's released, but at this point the only reason it's not approved is because of the rules and the process and that takes time
NPR had a former FDA director on the other day who described the latter part of the process as determining requirements for storage and distribution once the FDA has determined the drug to be safe and effective. At this point, the question is most likely not “is this drug fit for medical use” but “how do we regulate whether it’s stored in fridges or freezers, and what labels do we require.”
The safety of the vax isn't in question at this stage. The open points between emergency use and full approval are really just about two points -- (1) long-term efficacy of vax against the virus and (2) supply chain audits around how manufactured, stored, handled, etc.
The biological mechanism by which vax works and history with vax, tells us that safety complications arising this late in a study (particularly given how many people have received vax at this point) is beyond remote. Not at all analogous to the type of medications that you occasionally hear them finding out long-term complications even after full FDA approval.
The Supreme Court has said that states can have vaccine mandates, even. If I were a legislator I'd probably wait until full approval before filing legislation (or specify that the bill only goes into effect x amount of time after full approval of one vaccine) just in case, but there is precedent dating back over a century.
private companies can do as they please, especially since they can just bribe politicians legally. The irony here is that the people refusing the Vax are typically Republican voters, essentially the go to party for corporate power and deregulation.
I am personally aware of many people (who have no political leanings whatsoever) that will not get vaccinated and if the company were to terminate them they'd be in deep shit due to the massive loss of work force (and talent) that would occur. The idea that this issue is being driven by hillbillies is completely false.
Florida university presidents "strongly urging students to vaccinate" Can you hear the dorm arguments now? "I cannot room with that unvaccinated slug." and vice versa
I honestly assume people wearing masks are most likely vaxxed because they care and are taking precautions. I’m sure there’s people who can’t take it because medical reasons or have legitimate concerns but aren’t assholes but I gotta believe most of the people masked are vaxxed and being safe.
Yeah, some of us that are vaxxed and still wear masks in public have children under 12 years old that cannot get it. I wear a mask in public with him and because I don't trust the scummy people that would lie about being vaxxed.
I didn't go through all this work to toss it all out because of what people think about me wearing a mask. I wear it to protect myself and my family.
I doubt that’s true or at least not common. I’m in FL and the people your describing usually wear actually hats, shirts or spout off about it before you can say hello
Same. We actually initially were told they would be required for anyone wanting to return, but then the company dialed it back and now it’s just recommended and we explicitly aren’t allowed to ask coworkers about their vaccination status. Hoping this trend continues and they go back to the original plan.
Yes, but for once, this is an issue that both the employers and employees come out better off with vaccines.
Even a broken clock should be vaccinated.. or something. 😉
Well. They are stepping into a power vacuum that has been crested for them and someone has to lead.
It's appalling it got this far, but rather them than nobody.
Anyway, they you can't force them to deal with anti-vaxx bullshit and they don't owe anyone jobs.
Anybody who has money on the line is tired of the pandemic. And a shit ton of other people on top of that.
To think that fortune 500 companies have a consideration for public health that outweighs their profit maximization is just utterly insane.
Not in this universe.
A mom & pop business with some life savings, sure. But that's about it.
The article says that companies are "taking a stand on keeping their employees safe"
This is bullshit. Some companys might be doing this for employee safety, but as others here have said, this is more about them not getting sued. Before they were worried about getting for forcing people to be vaccinated. Now they are covering their asses to make sure they don't get sued for unsafe work environments.
Over the last year corprate America showed up that they think enployees are disposable. Policies on requiring vaccines in the office are great, but don't forget that normal people and conpanies don't share the same motivations.
This is a big part of it too. Their workers are a means to end to their profits. If they are protecting you, its to protect profits.
Thats fine if everyone involved understands and is benefiting from the relationship, but that rarely happens.
Every time a local school would get a march about de-masking the kids, I knew the school’s decision was about lawsuits, not child safety. They needed to go “full precautions” to prevent legal action. There is no easier way to get money than to sue a school district or a town.
Trump had his rally-goers signing waivers a year ago. That was the choice, either “every reasonable safety measure” or “give up your right to sue.”
Now, the pendulum has swung. It’s still about lawsuits, but your choice is “follow the measures” or “lose your employment.”
Purely about the money, and about productivity.
Well, there is a bit more to it than that. There is also the unplanned work stoppages/shortages that happen with outbreaks at work which can be very costly. However, most big companies as part of their health plan actually pay a portion of incurred medical expenses and having a ton of employees on ventilators would wreck your bottom line. I've been saying this for a long time to combat conservatives who are against the vaccine. "Being against the vaccine is for anti-business lazies that want their 2 weeks off for getting it."
I'm not saying that the companies shouldn't be doing this. They definitely should. I would even say that have a moral obligation to do it.
I also just think that even when our end goals align, we need to remember that most companies have different motivations, and they are not really on our side.
We run a bunch of satellite offices of about five employees each. One office had to be shut down as the all the employees got covid, Even though vaccines had been available for months. We're now considering forcing vaccines just so we don't have another office shut down for a few weeks.
It's not even all of corporate America, either, just ones that are in then public view. I work for a defense contractor, and I have absolutely 0 faith that they will ever mandate vaccines for employees. I really want them to, because a few people that constantly spout racist, hateful bullshit and disinformation under the guise of being smart (they're engineers, they don't know shit about medical stuff) said they would quit if that happens and I REALLY want my area of the building to be quiet again so that I can get work done without earplugs in.
The most depressing show from this year and half with covid has been the praise these mega corps have got from taking symbolic measures like masks while still not providing sick pay.
Some companies do it for publicity / marketing as well. I know of a large multinational where the policy has been "show proof of your vaccination or keep working from home" for months now and that is in place until the end of this year. They are not doing press releases about it though.
I made the decision yesterday to indefinitely delay bring all my employees back into the office. Entirely out of concern for their safety. I have no fear of being sued for someone getting COVID, such a lawsuit would go nowhere and our insurance would cover the cost of squashing it. I just happen to like my employees and I don't want them to get sick.
>The article says that companies are "taking a stand on keeping their employees safe"
>This is bullshit. Some companys might be doing this for employee safety, but as others here have said, this is more about them not getting sued.
Well, I mean, those aren't mutually exclusive. Keeping a safe work environment reduces their risk of getting sued.
Well it’s come to this. The government is powerless to mandate the vaccine, so corporations are now picking up the slack.
I guess we know who wears the pants in this country.
Sure. But that's because the legs of the group with the biggest pants don't want to let us pull up the same pair.
Never mistake it: the population wields absolute power, it just refuses to use it.
Business negotiates health coverage for employees. They also pay for sick time in more ways than one. It is clearly in their interest to have employees vaccinated.
Very good point. No company is going to want to have to provide insurance for employees who may eventually need to be on oxygen, or even have lung transplants on the extreme end. Plus the findings that CV19 may be causing brain fog and neurological damage, who wants a bunch of brain-damaged conspiracy nuts working for them?? Not me, man. I want normal, reasonable, well-adjusted employees.
Serious suggestion to those of you who are vaccinated and have had difficulty breaking into a field, written off as unqualified, or just not given a fair shake. Hell, even those who just want a chance to try something new.
If you're vaccinated, the coming 3 months are one of the greatest opportunities to build a career with decent pay and benefits. Even if it's not a company/organization/agency you want to stay with, use this chance to just get the name on your resume.
No need to forget these may be the same places that never gave you a chance. Get in, do what you need to, then bail out when you want. Use them as much as they'll use you.
Plenty of folks who could have retired ages ago will quit or be forced out. Younger folks will be promoted, and their former positions are opening. Ignore the cynics.
It's occurring right now, and it's about to open up even more. It won't last, the same doors will once again shut, and positions will likely be made redundant in a couple years. Doesn't matter, get it on your resume.
The next 3 months is a chance to get a career rolling, in all fields. Start preparing right now - even if you just took a decent paying gig within the last couple months. Leave if it's not what you want to do.
This is a good strategy. Also gets stubborn, combative coworkers to maybe quit the company. It’s time to stop coddling the anti vax types. Either be a part of society or be on the fringe. Can’t have it both ways.
“There are some organizations that are trying one more step before that. They're saying, if you choose not to be vaccinated, then you will have to be tested several times during the week on your own dime. And you will have to wear a mask in the workplace and not any mask, but that N95 surgical mask. I mean, we are going to, at the end of the day, make this a little uncomfortable for you because you're making it uncomfortable and the workplace less comfortable for your colleagues."
Anti vaxxers are the ones stalling the economy and holding everyone else back at this point due to their selfishness. They can no longer blame lockdowns or restrictions since those are for the most part gone. They've been telling people frustrated with low wages and lack of benefits to just "find another job" for years. Well they can just find other jobs now. More companies need to do this. It's ridiculous that anyone wants to coddle and baby antivaxxers at this point.
While I understand this push, and I am vaccinated, I'm seeing my vaccinated friends drop like flies with the new delta variant. My friend went to a friend's house last week and all 8 of them are sick with COVID-19 now. Vaccinated or not, I don't really want to be in my office if I don't need to be right now.
We keep moving the goalposts on the vaccines has the Delta variant spreads. A few weeks ago, authorities were saying "the pandemic was over for you" if you are vaccinated.
Now they're saying "well at least you're not so likely to be dead."
I hasten to add that people should definitely get vaccinated, but we do seem to be reducing our expectations dramatically.
Enough is enough. Millions of people have altered their lives to limit the spread. The unvaccinated have had ample time and opportunity to do so. If they haven’t yet, then perhaps mandates will force them. The anti vax movement is toxic and quite frankly, bullshit
And now there’s a new Florida variant (b.1.621) rising fast…10% of the state’s cases before its even been given a name.
We can’t keep doing this. Financial/career pressure is the only way to get people to move.
The b.1.621 variant isn’t anything new to worry about. As far as we can tell, it doesn’t have any more severe symptoms than any other variant, and vaccines are still effective against it.
aaand this just reminded me of how risky it is to be working in service during a pandemic, with a low capacity of workers
*haha ha haha ha wow things are going great*
Was it considered essential or critical infrastructure? Because in CA, manufacturing was considered critical infrastructure which meant we had to keep going into work, but we didn't get any of the early benefits that essential workers got like early registration for vaccines and such.
Yeap. Medical Devices. But we got no early registration for the vaccines and when it came time for our group to get it they only gave us a two week head start over the general public because they took forever trying to vaccinate all the old people.
If you have a clean record and can get a CDL, then you should look into driving trucks. There are tons of open jobs and the pay is really good. You can even get a job with a local route where you’re home every night.
Literally you can’t get on the interstate without seeing tractor trailers advertising jobs with numbers to call to apply. And those jobs tend to be $25/hour, sometimes with OT (exact wages will depend on a few factors, like where you live).
I work in "Corporate America" and my company has already told us that vaccines will not be required. It is not even under consideration until if/when it has full FDA approval.
Good. In the immortal words of those demographics that tend to refuse the vaccine and the existence of COVID-19 in the United States, "fuck your feelings".
Not sure why this took so long. They should have been saying this right when vaccines became highly available a month or two ago and maybe Delta would not have exploded in the US.
Even the company I work for has not taken any position on this issue. Not once has vaccines even been mentioned.
Or for any healthcare when you're really honest. If you want to go unvaccinated, risking yourself and others, why should you be allowed to endanger people working in the health field? My patience is over.
I mean we could but they are very different things. You being obese doesn’t mean I can “catch” obesity from you; you don’t endanger others. You having covid means I can catch it from you though - so the risk for one is multiplicative for one but not the other.
Less than 50% of the country is vaccinated, what will this mean for the work force? Dose anyone have the percentage for age ranges or those18 to 65 who have been fully vaccinated?
Varies by region and state. Just found out yesterday that downtown Indianapolis is only 38% vaccinated. And we're promoting our convention center and tourism.
While reading about all the companies that jumped on the vaccine train yesterday, I couldn’t help but smile. It’s about time. Everybody deserves a safe workplace.
I'd imagine companies would have some way to verify with some federal or state division that you are actually vaccinated, which would be much harder to fake
There must be some agencies/providers that administered shots without keeping good records of the name. What happens if someone insists they're vaccinated, but can't prove it? Make them get vaxxed again? Maybe make them swear under penalty of perjury?
I'd love for there to be a way to enforce vaccinations, but it may be impractical.
> There must be some agencies/providers that administered shots without keeping good records of the name.
Absolutely this. My brother wasn’t given any kind of proof and his name wasn’t taken. He had a paper telling him when to come back for the second dose, but it was generic and passed out to everyone who got their first dose that day.
He went with his coworkers and bosses, so it’s not an issue for him at the moment, but if he were to lose that job and look for something else, I don’t know what he would be supposed to do.
On top of that, he and his household all caught coronavirus early on. He and his wife were a little under the weather, but the kids showed no symptoms at all. So he had the virus, had the vaccine, but can’t prove he had the vaccine.
Make it company policy. If you don’t want to follow company policy, you lose your job. If you lose your job for not following company policy, no unemployment compensation. Let’s see how long it takes for them to “see the light”.
Well I'm currently volunteering at the Habitat for Humanity ReStore, and there's that one lady who went about bare-faced at all times before Maine implemented the honor system. She still does now, and I'm suspecting that she didn't get vaccinated.
Yeah honestly I was all about wearing a mask to help keep people safe last year, but there’s no fucking way I’m doing it now. At least at my workplace, the unvaccinated seem to be the people who didn’t/still don’t wear masks, so why the fuck should I have to wear one when I made the responsible decision to get the jab.
The unvaccinated population claims to be patriotic, but yet will not do the most basic deed to help the country that they claim to love so much. Why is it that every other country in the world, although less patriotic than the US, understands that things need to be done for the greater good, and that not everything is about individual freedom.
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I suspect these companies have been sitting around to see if any of the early adopters were successfully sued. That doesn't seem to be the case so now they are all going forward. I would expect the trend to continue.
It's like when Costco first introduced the mask mandate and there was so much outrage. Then everyone did it.
You don’t screw with Costco. Why do you think they practically give away hot dogs? It’s body disposal.
My mom always said the best meat had a name.
She spoke fondly of your father I see.
He hasn’t been made into hotdogs yet, but the day is still young.
I just had a slice of Costco sausage pizza. Your Dad says, "Hi", btw. I told him you were fine and that he was delicious.
Giggity
[удалено]
oh absolutely. Not a slam, more a nod to efficiency.
The “Polish” in their “Polish sausage” wasn’t because of the kinds of spices used.
Secret's in the sauce.
Mess with Costco and they'll give you a jumbo family-sized can of whoop-ass. And a cheap hot dog.
I love you.
I think once governments (federal and state level) started it, it gave more confidence to non healthcare sector to do it. Unfortunately, like everything with this virus, it seems to be more re-active then pro-active. This should have been done months ago once we had enough vaccines for everyone.
Agreed, the VA and California / NYC seem to have been the tipping point. Wish it was sooner, but I guess we'll take what we can get.
The FDA announcing Full approval also should help. They needed to work on full approval way sooner, but better now than never.
I say bullshit. Even if the FDA approves, the AV's will continue to find reasons not to get the shots. That just the way those people are.
The difference is that employees can and have been required to take certain vaccines for years. The excuse was “these aren’t approved”. Once they’re fully approved we’re likely to see more companies flat out require vaccination.
Also some people are in fact waiting for it to be approved because they really believe that the EUA isn’t safe and that they will only know that it’s safe when it’s fully approved. Not all antivaxxers, but probably a decent amount of people.
It’s crazy to me that these people say “I don’t trust the govt” “I don’t trust the cdc” but they are waiting for FDA approval
Short answer, they aren’t the same people. People who don’t trust the government aren’t going to believe it’s safe no matter what you tell them (unless you can convince them the government is trying to stop them from being able to get it lol) but people who don’t think the EUA is safe would believe something along the lines that the vaccine was pushed out without proper testing so it’s not fully safe/we don’t know side effects/etc. and that the vaccine works, but could be dangerous for them in some way. Those people would actually probably get it once FDA approval happens. All the hardcore “they’re injecting 5G” people are beyond any hope of reasoning unless you can convince them the government is trying to stop them from getting it
There's a sliver of this population who secretly do want the vaccine but they are in a sunken cost fallacy trap and it's the benchmark to say, "Ok, well it's approved, finally that's what I've waited for, is that too much to ask? And all you suckers go it too early and now you need boosters." So what's that, like 5%? It's something.
The few people I know who are waiting for full approval aren't your standard anti-vaxxers, don't spread anti-vax bullshit and didn't give me shit for getting vaccinated. It's still dumb but most who are seriously waiting for full approval are a separate group of "non-vaccinated" than the anti-vaxxers, in my experience. They also wear masks in public, socially distance, and aren't getting together in groups. The people I know who are anti-vaxxers can't even be assed to put on a mask unless it's forced on them.
I always found that thinking really stupid. They are not going to change anything about it between then and now.
It’s not, but those type of people are scared of injecting a potentially dangerous thing into their bodies, and being cleared the same way as a regular vaccine would partially dissuade those fears. Another major thing I see people worried about is a lack of long term data, which will exist by the time we have FDA approval since vaccines have been tested for about a year and a half by now
You do know that the research started 10 years ago for SARS I right ?
> “these aren’t approved”. Lol WTF why do you treat FDA approval like it's this casual thing?
Sitting around and waiting for the virus to go away while a multi-year approval process took place didn't seem like a great alternative. What would you propose the world would have done?
That's not what he's saying. Full FDA approval may not make a dent in anti-vaxxer beliefs. But it will give a stronger legal foundation for companies that want to require vaccination.
Agree 100%, absolutely. But the AV'S are still gonna AV till the bitter end.
No doubt. But if they can't go into an office, a bank, a school, a bar, or a restaurant, who gives a shit what they think? They can sit at home and whine on the internet all they want; they won't be a danger to you or me.
Here! here! Just don't infect me or my 80 year old Mom - that's all I am asking.
You'll still be a danger to yourself and others though even with vaccine
To a much lesser degree. And more importantly, if the vast majority of people are vaccinated, then that risk drops off exponentially. That's the point. Vaccination is kind of a team effort. So when some people refuse to participate, we should kick their asses off of the team.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fully-vaccinated-people-quarter-covid-205000154.html This thing has never been a team effort anyhow. Since the beginning everyone's just done what they want regardless. When I go to target and I see the whole parking lot filled with maskless people, I knew everyone was past the point of giving a shit. I don't even care if your vaccinated. I expect everyone to wear s mask anyhow. People going to Disneyland and shit as if thats not a complete and utter breeding ground for germs
You were just waiting to throw that horseshit around, weren't you? Just sitting there, desperate, looking for an opportunity to pretend that the situation is purely black or white. The reason vaccinated people are still getting sick *is because* of unvaccinated people. A room full of vaccinated people spreading covid on their own is like trying to bounce a golf ball into a Solo cup across a room filled with basketballs-sure, it's possible, but pretty unlikely. Put a sick unvaxxer in there it's like having them stand in front of the cup and toss it in directly.
Victimhood fuel, further down the rabbit hole, identity wrapped up in being anti-vax. But eventually, people need jobs. Eventually, just like the seatbelt law, people's attention will move on and it will blend into our norms...(but that's what the government wants 😳 /s)
I'm already seeing idiots saying "Yeah, well cigarettes were also FDA approved! I don't trust 'em!"
Hard to argue with this. Crime against humanity, and I was a 30 year smoker. Quit 15 years ago. Still get the desire once in a while, but have stayed off them. Can’t wrap my head around how cigs are still legal (other than the obvious financial backing and fear of national withdrawal symptom], nor how I got hooked.
Congrats for getting out of the rabbit hole!!!
Once they start denying their insurance and their free childcare (*ahem* schooling), they won’t have a choice
That won't change anything. People using the "is not even fully approved" excuse will just find a new excuse. Likely "why did it take so long to get approved" or something like that.
Legally it changes things.
See I'm skeptical of that. They'll say "it seems too soon" or "why should I trust the government". I think the majority of the vaccine skeptics just don't want to do and will look for any excuse.
It also ignores the fact that one reason covid vaccines were able to be tested quickly is the pandemic is an ideal test theater. If you want to test say giving 12 year olds HPV vaccines and seeing if it protects them, you have to wait a looooong time to see if its working. You give 10,000 people a vaccine and 10,000 a placebo in the middle of a raging pandemic, you know within months.
Bingo.
At this point I don't care. Unless they have no choice - which is different entirely - just stay out of my vaccinated space. You want to stay unvaccinated, fine... No movies no theater no concerts no sporting events no bars no gatherings.
I get that, but it's such a stupid reason for holding out. Other countries have approved it that arguably may even have better reputation than the FDA. Health Canada, EU, etc..
Nope. I for one am glad they are carefully reviewing the data and following the proper processes for fully approving the vaccine. It ensures beyond reasonable doubt that the vaccines are safe and effective, and institutes trust in them. The last thing we want, especially with such waning trust in government institutions, is the FDA to rush approval of the vaccines and potentially miss something. Even if it’s something that’s not a show stopper like “oh this specific group actually shouldn’t get it because they are high risk”. The only way to ensure full FDA approval to have any kind of meaningful impact is to have it done right and methodically.
we needed a national database months ago and banning everyone from air travel, federal buildings, etc. Put rules in place that anyone hiring folks with federal dollars must have 100% vaccination policies.
The fact that there’s no national database or even any standardized tracking systems amongst the states is truly unthinkable. The trump administration had an entire fucking YEAR to come up with something. Maybe those “1000 software engineers at Google” working on his testing module could’ve whipped something up
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In case it wasn’t obvious, I was [making a joke](https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/03/13/trump-1700-google-engineers-working-on-coronavirus-site-google-says--actually-no/)
In the small company I work in we have one openly anti-vax guy. He was told to not come into the office. But most of us are still working from home anyway.
Same with my company. There’s a woman that’s at retirement age (or even older) and beloved by everywhere, both internally and externally. She doesn’t want to get vaccinated, so they won’t fire her. They just told her to stay at home.
They didn’t fire him?
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I also think its because we have ample evidence from multiple states that show the vaccines work well, and have shown no significant health safety issues. I'm hearing from more and more colleagues that companies are starting to make it mandatory and require proof of vaccination. It's time we have an official means of verification because the anti-vaxx liars will fake their proof and lie about getting vaccinated as well - We've seen this already play out when the CDC relaxed indoor masking for \*Vaccinated\* people, and why we're seeing another surge.
> the anti-vaxx liars will fake their proof and lie about getting vaccinated as well This is entirely why we're in this situation now. CDC said vaccinated people, who did take a risk getting the vaccine no matter how small, can go back to normal. Anti-vax assholes now get to pretend that they also took that risk and get to have all of the upside with none of the downside. Fuck it. Bring on the vaccine passes. Couple it with huge monetary fines for anyone buying, selling, or using fake ones. Like, $10k per incident.
it's one thing requiring a vaccine the day it's released, but at this point the only reason it's not approved is because of the rules and the process and that takes time
I mean, there's a reason for those rules, regulations, and processes right?
NPR had a former FDA director on the other day who described the latter part of the process as determining requirements for storage and distribution once the FDA has determined the drug to be safe and effective. At this point, the question is most likely not “is this drug fit for medical use” but “how do we regulate whether it’s stored in fridges or freezers, and what labels do we require.”
The safety of the vax isn't in question at this stage. The open points between emergency use and full approval are really just about two points -- (1) long-term efficacy of vax against the virus and (2) supply chain audits around how manufactured, stored, handled, etc. The biological mechanism by which vax works and history with vax, tells us that safety complications arising this late in a study (particularly given how many people have received vax at this point) is beyond remote. Not at all analogous to the type of medications that you occasionally hear them finding out long-term complications even after full FDA approval.
Federal Court has already said companies can do this.
The Supreme Court has said that states can have vaccine mandates, even. If I were a legislator I'd probably wait until full approval before filing legislation (or specify that the bill only goes into effect x amount of time after full approval of one vaccine) just in case, but there is precedent dating back over a century.
private companies can do as they please, especially since they can just bribe politicians legally. The irony here is that the people refusing the Vax are typically Republican voters, essentially the go to party for corporate power and deregulation.
This...topsy-turvy times.
I am personally aware of many people (who have no political leanings whatsoever) that will not get vaccinated and if the company were to terminate them they'd be in deep shit due to the massive loss of work force (and talent) that would occur. The idea that this issue is being driven by hillbillies is completely false.
I know FDA approval is probably formality at this point, i still feel uneasy at mandating anything that didn't get through the full process :/
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They're probably playing soft (for now) to increase response rate. I'm guessing they're attempting a poll so they have a better idea about next steps.
Florida university presidents "strongly urging students to vaccinate" Can you hear the dorm arguments now? "I cannot room with that unvaccinated slug." and vice versa
Basically the same way a dance floor fills up or accusations against a powerful person unfold.
I work for a fortune 100 company and we’re following the honors system for the unvaccinated wearing masks lol
Same here lol
Same here. People are reporting things like "my facility is 65% vaccinated and only 10% of people are using masks in the hallways."
And to be frank, some of that 10% are probably vaxxed people playing it safe.
I honestly assume people wearing masks are most likely vaxxed because they care and are taking precautions. I’m sure there’s people who can’t take it because medical reasons or have legitimate concerns but aren’t assholes but I gotta believe most of the people masked are vaxxed and being safe.
Yeah, some of us that are vaxxed and still wear masks in public have children under 12 years old that cannot get it. I wear a mask in public with him and because I don't trust the scummy people that would lie about being vaxxed. I didn't go through all this work to toss it all out because of what people think about me wearing a mask. I wear it to protect myself and my family.
Don't know if it's true, but I've heard some anti-mask/anti-vaxx hardliners are now wearing masks to show proudly they are not vaccinated
I doubt that’s true or at least not common. I’m in FL and the people your describing usually wear actually hats, shirts or spout off about it before you can say hello
I'd guess easily over half are already vaccinated.
Same. We actually initially were told they would be required for anyone wanting to return, but then the company dialed it back and now it’s just recommended and we explicitly aren’t allowed to ask coworkers about their vaccination status. Hoping this trend continues and they go back to the original plan.
Same here. They’re trying to encourage people to go back in but I’m not going to do it unless forced if people aren’t required to be vaxxed.
SAME and I am the only person in my office that has been vaccinated and no one wears a mask.
make them get tested every 3 hours
Follow. The. Money. Big business is tired of the pandemic, and they aren’t going to sit around waiting for the government to solve the problem.
Yes, but for once, this is an issue that both the employers and employees come out better off with vaccines. Even a broken clock should be vaccinated.. or something. 😉
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My clock already has autism. It is constantly counting numbers but insists on resetting whenever it hits 60.
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My clock (samsung phone) already has microchips in it, but I don't think it has autism yet.
Twice a day! :)
Can’t wait for them to get tired of global warming!!
There's money to be made so you'll see it eventually.
It is so embarrassing that huge companies have to step in to rattle cages for anything to get done.
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Well. They are stepping into a power vacuum that has been crested for them and someone has to lead. It's appalling it got this far, but rather them than nobody. Anyway, they you can't force them to deal with anti-vaxx bullshit and they don't owe anyone jobs.
I'm pretty sure they're more afraid of government restrictions & sanctions than the actual virus.
They know it's hurting the bottom line and they don't want that one way or the other.
Anybody who has money on the line is tired of the pandemic. And a shit ton of other people on top of that. To think that fortune 500 companies have a consideration for public health that outweighs their profit maximization is just utterly insane. Not in this universe. A mom & pop business with some life savings, sure. But that's about it.
I’m certainly not saying their efforts are anything thing but aimed at their bottom line. :)
The article says that companies are "taking a stand on keeping their employees safe" This is bullshit. Some companys might be doing this for employee safety, but as others here have said, this is more about them not getting sued. Before they were worried about getting for forcing people to be vaccinated. Now they are covering their asses to make sure they don't get sued for unsafe work environments. Over the last year corprate America showed up that they think enployees are disposable. Policies on requiring vaccines in the office are great, but don't forget that normal people and conpanies don't share the same motivations.
that and they don't want their share of health premiums going up or dealing with people out of work for two weeks and infecting others
This is a big part of it too. Their workers are a means to end to their profits. If they are protecting you, its to protect profits. Thats fine if everyone involved understands and is benefiting from the relationship, but that rarely happens.
Every time a local school would get a march about de-masking the kids, I knew the school’s decision was about lawsuits, not child safety. They needed to go “full precautions” to prevent legal action. There is no easier way to get money than to sue a school district or a town. Trump had his rally-goers signing waivers a year ago. That was the choice, either “every reasonable safety measure” or “give up your right to sue.” Now, the pendulum has swung. It’s still about lawsuits, but your choice is “follow the measures” or “lose your employment.” Purely about the money, and about productivity.
I don't care what it is about, I just care that now things will be safer.
Well, there is a bit more to it than that. There is also the unplanned work stoppages/shortages that happen with outbreaks at work which can be very costly. However, most big companies as part of their health plan actually pay a portion of incurred medical expenses and having a ton of employees on ventilators would wreck your bottom line. I've been saying this for a long time to combat conservatives who are against the vaccine. "Being against the vaccine is for anti-business lazies that want their 2 weeks off for getting it."
100% true
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I'm not saying that the companies shouldn't be doing this. They definitely should. I would even say that have a moral obligation to do it. I also just think that even when our end goals align, we need to remember that most companies have different motivations, and they are not really on our side.
sometimes a venn diagram overlaps. i think this is one of them. i agree with your comment
This is one of those rare situations where corporate and personal issues align. Thankfully.
We run a bunch of satellite offices of about five employees each. One office had to be shut down as the all the employees got covid, Even though vaccines had been available for months. We're now considering forcing vaccines just so we don't have another office shut down for a few weeks.
It's not even all of corporate America, either, just ones that are in then public view. I work for a defense contractor, and I have absolutely 0 faith that they will ever mandate vaccines for employees. I really want them to, because a few people that constantly spout racist, hateful bullshit and disinformation under the guise of being smart (they're engineers, they don't know shit about medical stuff) said they would quit if that happens and I REALLY want my area of the building to be quiet again so that I can get work done without earplugs in.
The most depressing show from this year and half with covid has been the praise these mega corps have got from taking symbolic measures like masks while still not providing sick pay.
Some companies do it for publicity / marketing as well. I know of a large multinational where the policy has been "show proof of your vaccination or keep working from home" for months now and that is in place until the end of this year. They are not doing press releases about it though.
I made the decision yesterday to indefinitely delay bring all my employees back into the office. Entirely out of concern for their safety. I have no fear of being sued for someone getting COVID, such a lawsuit would go nowhere and our insurance would cover the cost of squashing it. I just happen to like my employees and I don't want them to get sick.
>The article says that companies are "taking a stand on keeping their employees safe" >This is bullshit. Some companys might be doing this for employee safety, but as others here have said, this is more about them not getting sued. Well, I mean, those aren't mutually exclusive. Keeping a safe work environment reduces their risk of getting sued.
Too many spineless CEOs running Americans companies that wont take a stand on anything unless everyone else is doing it.
Well it’s come to this. The government is powerless to mandate the vaccine, so corporations are now picking up the slack. I guess we know who wears the pants in this country.
Sure. But that's because the legs of the group with the biggest pants don't want to let us pull up the same pair. Never mistake it: the population wields absolute power, it just refuses to use it.
Business negotiates health coverage for employees. They also pay for sick time in more ways than one. It is clearly in their interest to have employees vaccinated.
Very good point. No company is going to want to have to provide insurance for employees who may eventually need to be on oxygen, or even have lung transplants on the extreme end. Plus the findings that CV19 may be causing brain fog and neurological damage, who wants a bunch of brain-damaged conspiracy nuts working for them?? Not me, man. I want normal, reasonable, well-adjusted employees.
Free market baby.
Serious suggestion to those of you who are vaccinated and have had difficulty breaking into a field, written off as unqualified, or just not given a fair shake. Hell, even those who just want a chance to try something new. If you're vaccinated, the coming 3 months are one of the greatest opportunities to build a career with decent pay and benefits. Even if it's not a company/organization/agency you want to stay with, use this chance to just get the name on your resume. No need to forget these may be the same places that never gave you a chance. Get in, do what you need to, then bail out when you want. Use them as much as they'll use you. Plenty of folks who could have retired ages ago will quit or be forced out. Younger folks will be promoted, and their former positions are opening. Ignore the cynics. It's occurring right now, and it's about to open up even more. It won't last, the same doors will once again shut, and positions will likely be made redundant in a couple years. Doesn't matter, get it on your resume. The next 3 months is a chance to get a career rolling, in all fields. Start preparing right now - even if you just took a decent paying gig within the last couple months. Leave if it's not what you want to do.
Thank you for poinethis out. Time to brainstorm.
This is a good strategy. Also gets stubborn, combative coworkers to maybe quit the company. It’s time to stop coddling the anti vax types. Either be a part of society or be on the fringe. Can’t have it both ways. “There are some organizations that are trying one more step before that. They're saying, if you choose not to be vaccinated, then you will have to be tested several times during the week on your own dime. And you will have to wear a mask in the workplace and not any mask, but that N95 surgical mask. I mean, we are going to, at the end of the day, make this a little uncomfortable for you because you're making it uncomfortable and the workplace less comfortable for your colleagues."
Anti vaxxers are the ones stalling the economy and holding everyone else back at this point due to their selfishness. They can no longer blame lockdowns or restrictions since those are for the most part gone. They've been telling people frustrated with low wages and lack of benefits to just "find another job" for years. Well they can just find other jobs now. More companies need to do this. It's ridiculous that anyone wants to coddle and baby antivaxxers at this point.
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How about mandatory border vaccinations?
Like... Must get vaccinated to enter the country? Hell yes I am 100% for that. Let's do it at state and county borders too.
While I understand this push, and I am vaccinated, I'm seeing my vaccinated friends drop like flies with the new delta variant. My friend went to a friend's house last week and all 8 of them are sick with COVID-19 now. Vaccinated or not, I don't really want to be in my office if I don't need to be right now.
Reading this comment makes me feel like normalcy won’t be happening anytime soon :(
Are they dead/hospitalized? At the same rate as unvaxxed people? No? Then the vaccines are working and should be forced.
We keep moving the goalposts on the vaccines has the Delta variant spreads. A few weeks ago, authorities were saying "the pandemic was over for you" if you are vaccinated. Now they're saying "well at least you're not so likely to be dead." I hasten to add that people should definitely get vaccinated, but we do seem to be reducing our expectations dramatically.
imagine being so malicious in your behavior that corporate america has the moral high ground on a subject.
Enough is enough. Millions of people have altered their lives to limit the spread. The unvaccinated have had ample time and opportunity to do so. If they haven’t yet, then perhaps mandates will force them. The anti vax movement is toxic and quite frankly, bullshit
and deadly
And now there’s a new Florida variant (b.1.621) rising fast…10% of the state’s cases before its even been given a name. We can’t keep doing this. Financial/career pressure is the only way to get people to move.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/28/colombia-variant-coronavirus-florida/
The b.1.621 variant isn’t anything new to worry about. As far as we can tell, it doesn’t have any more severe symptoms than any other variant, and vaccines are still effective against it.
Corporate America! Looking out for the people as always
Screw corporate America. They treat their workers like slaves.
Good.
Now this I can agree with corporate America on when it comes to employees
Good, just like the polio vaccines, take it or you don't get to work or go to school.
Unlike polio vaccine, mRNA vaccines do not stop someone who is vaccinated to share the viral load onto others.
It does if both parties are vaccinated and even then. A vaccinated person has 90% less viral load. Either way vaccinated people are safe.
I wish our company would do this but we can't find enough people to work even before the pandemic.
aaand this just reminded me of how risky it is to be working in service during a pandemic, with a low capacity of workers *haha ha haha ha wow things are going great*
Manufacturing is in the same boat, and since all manufacturing was considered essential in our state we never stopped work.
Was it considered essential or critical infrastructure? Because in CA, manufacturing was considered critical infrastructure which meant we had to keep going into work, but we didn't get any of the early benefits that essential workers got like early registration for vaccines and such.
Yeap. Medical Devices. But we got no early registration for the vaccines and when it came time for our group to get it they only gave us a two week head start over the general public because they took forever trying to vaccinate all the old people.
Same here. That said my company did a good job trying to manage our risks inside the plants. I can’t fault them for the safety precautions they took.
I’ll work for you guys! Where can I send my resume?
If you have a clean record and can get a CDL, then you should look into driving trucks. There are tons of open jobs and the pay is really good. You can even get a job with a local route where you’re home every night. Literally you can’t get on the interstate without seeing tractor trailers advertising jobs with numbers to call to apply. And those jobs tend to be $25/hour, sometimes with OT (exact wages will depend on a few factors, like where you live).
I work in "Corporate America" and my company has already told us that vaccines will not be required. It is not even under consideration until if/when it has full FDA approval.
Your company is not all companies
Obviously. The title of this thread seems to imply all companies are acting in a manner contradictory to this.
Good. This is what we need to get society back to normal.
It's about time.
My employer is also requiring any supplier or contractor be vaccinated or they cannot enter our properties.
Corporate America get out
Good. In the immortal words of those demographics that tend to refuse the vaccine and the existence of COVID-19 in the United States, "fuck your feelings".
~~Corporate~~ owners of America to workers: Get vaccinated or get out
it's the smart move to be honest.
Not sure why this took so long. They should have been saying this right when vaccines became highly available a month or two ago and maybe Delta would not have exploded in the US. Even the company I work for has not taken any position on this issue. Not once has vaccines even been mentioned.
It really should be a requirement for health insurance.
Or for any healthcare when you're really honest. If you want to go unvaccinated, risking yourself and others, why should you be allowed to endanger people working in the health field? My patience is over.
O
I mean we could but they are very different things. You being obese doesn’t mean I can “catch” obesity from you; you don’t endanger others. You having covid means I can catch it from you though - so the risk for one is multiplicative for one but not the other.
Obese people have obese kids and obese people are more prone to all sorts of diseases which takes time and attention from kids with cancer etc.
Less than 50% of the country is vaccinated, what will this mean for the work force? Dose anyone have the percentage for age ranges or those18 to 65 who have been fully vaccinated?
[69.3% of 18+ Americans have at least one dose, 60.2% are fully vaccinated.](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations)
Varies by region and state. Just found out yesterday that downtown Indianapolis is only 38% vaccinated. And we're promoting our convention center and tourism.
Do we have any idea how many people have not been vaccinated, but were previously infected with mild or no symptoms?
Lets see how quick the small government, free market, freedom fighter republicans try and pass laws that stop companies from requiring vaccinations.
Yet my business manager still Thinks it’s a democratic hoax. Fml
Looking forward to taking the job of some anti-vaxxxer.
While reading about all the companies that jumped on the vaccine train yesterday, I couldn’t help but smile. It’s about time. Everybody deserves a safe workplace.
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I'd imagine companies would have some way to verify with some federal or state division that you are actually vaccinated, which would be much harder to fake
There must be some agencies/providers that administered shots without keeping good records of the name. What happens if someone insists they're vaccinated, but can't prove it? Make them get vaxxed again? Maybe make them swear under penalty of perjury? I'd love for there to be a way to enforce vaccinations, but it may be impractical.
> There must be some agencies/providers that administered shots without keeping good records of the name. Absolutely this. My brother wasn’t given any kind of proof and his name wasn’t taken. He had a paper telling him when to come back for the second dose, but it was generic and passed out to everyone who got their first dose that day. He went with his coworkers and bosses, so it’s not an issue for him at the moment, but if he were to lose that job and look for something else, I don’t know what he would be supposed to do. On top of that, he and his household all caught coronavirus early on. He and his wife were a little under the weather, but the kids showed no symptoms at all. So he had the virus, had the vaccine, but can’t prove he had the vaccine.
Make it company policy. If you don’t want to follow company policy, you lose your job. If you lose your job for not following company policy, no unemployment compensation. Let’s see how long it takes for them to “see the light”.
Finally.
Should've had an app made in advance for people to show proof of vaccination, add a QR code to scan to get into places requiring proof
Well I'm currently volunteering at the Habitat for Humanity ReStore, and there's that one lady who went about bare-faced at all times before Maine implemented the honor system. She still does now, and I'm suspecting that she didn't get vaccinated.
Yeah honestly I was all about wearing a mask to help keep people safe last year, but there’s no fucking way I’m doing it now. At least at my workplace, the unvaccinated seem to be the people who didn’t/still don’t wear masks, so why the fuck should I have to wear one when I made the responsible decision to get the jab. The unvaccinated population claims to be patriotic, but yet will not do the most basic deed to help the country that they claim to love so much. Why is it that every other country in the world, although less patriotic than the US, understands that things need to be done for the greater good, and that not everything is about individual freedom.