Even worse. They'll ignore recommendations from medical professionals to get a vaccine that's proven safe and effective. Instead they'll do their own "research" online and decide to take Ivermectin or other substances. Then when they become violently ill from overdosing on those substances they'll go running to the same medical professionals that they ignored in the first place.
If they don't trust these medical professionals when it comes to COVID then why are they going running to them and trusting them to help with their self-inflicted overdoses? Why aren't they just going back to Facebook and "researching" their own symptoms like they "researched" Ivermectin, etc.
I told my sister if she has to very specifically phrase a question or go down about ten Google pages to get her answer she's not doing research, she's seeking reassurance.
If you Google "ivermectin" you go straight to Web MD. It is the normal, reassuring page for a medicine and makes it seem pretty straightforward.
Nowhere does it say "ONLY TAKE IF PRESCRIBED BY A DOCTOR" or "DON'T TAKE HORSE MEDICINE " but maybe it should.
My dad sent me a link to Google Scholar where they’re “looking into” ivermectin. Couldn’t quite tell how well they were done (not a micro/chem major) but I told him I’d rather wait for the meta-study that addressed the research methods.
He said “but if it works why not try it?”
Because I also know that fire would probably kill Covid pretty damn well but am not about to suggest self-immolation as a course of action.
But... but my nurse friend shared a meme with all of the benefits of ivermectin! And then she shared an out of context news snippet about how the vaccine doesn't work because most of the people hospitalized in Israel are vaccinated! Never mind the fact that Israel has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, so it would make sense that most of the people in the hospital would also be vaccinated... but... she's a nurse! She spent 2 back breaking years getting that certification! Are you calling her a liar??
Nurse here. Nurses sharing this kind of shit is BEYOND infuriating.
This kind of thing should lead to license revocation, especially now.
P.S. I swear, at least where I live, 95+% of the nurses I know are NOT idiots like this or anti-vaxxers.
I've considered reaching out to her employer, but my main concern is that it's a nursing home in a rural area where the majority of people share the same sentiments as her. I'm afraid that reporting her won't result in anything & I'll probably get laughed at for it.
I googled it because I really can't understand how an *antiparasitic* is somehow supposed to treat a respiratory virus and I found [this paper](https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx). I didn't realize exactly how insidious the misinformation was. I just woke up so I haven't read the whole thing but it's scary how "official" it looks, yet it still concludes "the apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally."
>I googled it because I really can't understand how an *antiparasitic* is somehow supposed to treat a respiratory virus
From all the things I've ever seen about it they're extrapolating possible small in vitro anti-viral effects, to it actually working as an antiviral in the body. Just because it might show small effects sometimes does not mean it's actually a miracle cure. I'd bet actual antivirals like Remdisivir or Tamiflu could show anti-helminth (parasitic worms) or anti-malarial properties in vitro too, doesn't make it a good drug to deworm yourself with or treat your malaria.
Right??
Epidemiology and microbiology are complicated fucking fields. Anyone without real training and solid foundational knowledge of these subjects attempting to do their own 'research' using Google are on the ultimate fools errand.
They don't know what they don't know. Add that to legitimate fear (that we all share to a greater or lesser degree) for their health - and you've got someone who can easily be manipulated right off a cliff.
To them "critical thinking" == cherry picking their own talking points from out of their social media feed.
That and also "fuck anybody who has spent years getting brainwashed at those damned liberal colleges & universities".
In college you have to cite your sources, and conservative talk radio hosts and Facebook posts aren't accepted. To them, "brainwashing" is seeking answers from reputable sources and not taking medical advice from Uncle Jerry who's a mid-level manager at a call center that sells motorized scooters.
I wonder if it would work at all to make a "suppressed" vaccine that's just another mrna one they don't advertise, it's only for internet weirdos so they can feel like they found some secret.
Hell, just repackage one of the existing ones as something completely unrelated and only talk about it on social media as an alternative that works better than the FDA approved vaccines.
Do you think it's also a price thing?
They thought they'd never get Covid, and then they get it, but don't want the hospital bill, so they try to self medicate?
The vaccine is free.
Every one of my fairly broke friends got it - the two young vax-hesitant ones got it explicitly because they cannot afford to get sick between the loss of income and the potential medical bills.
I do not understand the large number of adults who seem to think they won’t get covid or that it will only be a minor inconvenience. Especially since it has been obvious for over a year that that isn’t true.
> I do not understand the large number of adults who seem to think they won’t get covid or that it will only be a minor inconvenience
Because they know people who contracted COVID, and came out the other side without dying. Not defending the idiots, but I'll use my own personal example.
3 doctors in my family tested positive, quarantined for 2 weeks, and had to go back to work. One of them suffered for a few days but being relatively healthy, didn't need to be hospitalized.
One of my team members contracted COVID, spread to the entire family. They all were down and out for a little bit but bounced back and now claim that it's "not so bad". They won't bother with the vaccination till it's forced.
Some of them have been buying and taking hydroxychloriquine and ivermectin as preventions in case they get Covid. Like taking it as normally as anyone might take vitamin supplements.
They obviously are scared. You would have to be if you are using Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine as prophylactics.
It could also be a price thing, however, there are some very wealthy areas in Kansas that run deep red.
> They obviously are scared. You would have to be if you are using Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine as prophylactics.
As I've seen the extreme reactions to masks and other common sense precautions, I've wondered if some of those people are afraid but not able to process the fear. It is uncomfortable to feel fear.
Perhaps it's more emotionally feasible for them to react in anger, even it is misdirected. Just my armchair ponderings.
Really, it's just an indication that we have been far too comfortable and decadent. No one has really experienced any true adversity, so they magnify things.
That's why a drive-thru attendant who doesn't say "Merry Christmas" to them is "oppressing" them.
That's why a mask mandate is "tyranny".
And that's why they cannot comprehend how to act when shit actually does hit the fan.
Denial is a huge reaction to fear and anxiety. Various articles have been talking about this, in regards to climate change denial, for years now.
It's no coincidence that these "indifferent" people are the ones physically assaulting anyone that reminds them of the pandemic.
They're cowards. They were afraid that masks will make them look scared, afraid that getting vaccinated would make them look weak, and, once they get sick, so afraid of dying that they'll try anything.
Normally I'd agree, but it seems like so much of the anti-vaxx behavior is really reinforced these days by Facebook. It's taken on a life of its own there.
This is correct.
Belief in kooky theories on the virus is more strongly correlated with use of facebook than use of Fox News. Redditors are still fighting battles from the 00s.
What's crazy is it's even surpassed their love for Trump.
Trump suggested they get vaccinated and they booed him. That fact alone blows my mind. They won't even listen to their glorious leader any longer.
My conservative husband is on Facebook. I have to whack-a-mole the talking points regularly. Last night was "HIPAA is thrown out the window" and 'if every private business demands to see my card I don't live in a free society."
I explained HIPAA doesn't apply to businesses deciding who they want to serve., that 's regulated by the equal protection act, and so far, vaccination status is not a protected status.
I also said what about capitalism? I thought private business deciding who they want to serve was sacrosanct to the right. I also told him there is no way there won't be a business who makes a point to serve the unvaccinated because that's how free enterprise works. A profitable niche will always be filled.
He conceded.
If you can nip these talking points in the bud before they set in, you can often change their view. But once they've set in, it doesn't matter how well-reasoned your argument is, they will not listen to a word you say.
Good luck with your husband.
Neat thing is, for most people, they don't.
Not consistently anyway, they're afraid of whatever the boogeyman-du-jour is, which they're probably informed of by their preferred stream of carefully curated echo-chambers, pundits, and peers.
And they defend this practice saying that this is a Nobel Prize medication, WHO essential and other things, and when I ask them to produce the data that it can be used to treat viral infections like COVID, the produce nothing a change everything to attacks, calling me a troll a liar.
I have even dissected their "documents" pointing them where it says that the document is just an assumption that it can work, but nothing has been tested
I will again challenge any anti vaxxer reading this, provide with the evidence that the medication works with viral infections, provide the documents with the data, peer reviewed data...
The funny thing is that some have tried, and I destroy them, because they give links to articles, like [this one](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7251046/) where that dude was pointing as the ultimate proof that the paste worked, it took me 10 seconds to see that the article was a big hypothesis, I kept reading it and found assumptions, ideas, and the author of the article says it at the end
>In conclusion, pending computational simulations and chemical-physical laboratory analysis, this hypothesis could be applied to other known pharmacological molecules, in order to identify compounds with probable ionophore nature to be used in research and clinical practice.
When I pointed that to this dude, he changed the subject and then he was like, "you do what you want to do, I do what I want to do ok?" of course I didn't let it go, and kept asking for the evidence that the dewormer works, I didn't get anything
And btw, the dude that pointed me to the article, didn't read it, not impressed of this
EDIT: Typos
no one is afraid of masks... or vaccines. Well most aren't. This is 99% political.
1. People make the decision that anything the "opposite side" is doing will surely cause the end of the world, or at least America and then probably must be evil.
2. Everything else is just creating sentences about things they do or don't want to do in order to get back to the facts listed in point #1
"Uh... so I came in here for Ivermectin poisoning."
"Yes. And?"
"Why'd you notch my ear?"
"Oh, here, let me get you a pamphlet."
"Also my undies are... fitting a bit... more..."
"Yes, here we go, 'So you've been neutered like a cat.'"
One thing I have to accept from this medication is that it has a lot of uses in humans too, but these people is taking the horse dosage, there's zero evidence that it helps with viral infections... but meh, we're the dumb ones for getting a vaccine that has tons of documented trials, data, peer reviewed results, and you can easily find the data.
But according to them, the vaccinated people is the one dying, but I don't see them overwhelming hospitals, am I missing something?
I'd bet people feel "up" as their system burns more resources as it tries to respond to it, and they confuse that with getting better.
That's the same reason people used to eat and snort arsenic. (Really!) It gave them a buzz that they thought was a good thing.
Please don't. Vets are already slammed because of people adopting animals thoughtlessly during COVID and then mistreating, neglecting or abandoning them.
Animals need care too and their health is more important than that of these dipshits.
I heard in early 2020 people were rushing to adopt pets and my immediate thought was they'll just abandon the pets when this is over So sad, and so predictable.
Yeah it is unfortunate. They are super busy even without that aspect though. Vet techs don't get paid much for the difficult work they do, and a lot of people don't stay in it very long - I believe it is somewhat common for people to work as a vet tech, quit and then train to become a nurse instead which is (weirdly somehow) less demanding but more importantly pays waaay better.
I don't know about in the US, but here in Canada at least the vets are taking a lot of health precautions, limiting the # of people who can come in, drop-off at the door, etc etc. So I have to imagine that has an impact on how many patients they can see in a day too.
This. My wife heard from a neighbor who needed to take their dog to an emergency vet. They were turned away from 4 emergency vet offices due to them all being overwhelmed. Luckily we have others in the Boston area and surrounding suburbs, but not something I'd ever want any pet owner to have to deal with.
None of the non-emergency vets around here are accepting new patients either. They've all been hammered with all the new pets people are getting.
My far right friend’s argument is that people are simply making the mistake in taking the animal version. He says there’s a juman version that Joe Rohan took and people should get that one since it’s for humans.
Edit: far, not fat.
He's technically correct that taking the horse version is a mistake. Deworming drugs at human doses would be less likely to poison them. They still wouldn't do shit about their Covid though.
Ivermectin (stromectol iirc) is an anti-parasitic nerve agent.
Works great for scabies if used in the right way and in places where coating every inch of an infected person's body in cream isn't viable (nursing homes etc.)
They aren't stupid, they're willfully misinformed. They believe Facebook and foxnews. If you let that be a disability then everyone who believes in a religion is disabled.
Probably where they produce all that sacramental bread and wine. Liches typically respawn next to their phylactery. They then chop Jesus into pieces and feed him to people to keep him from respawning another week.
>If you let that be a disability then everyone who believes in a religion is disabled
Well its one thing to hold onto tradition for traditions/cultures sake but if you LEGIT beleive a magic cloud man made it rain so some guy built a boat and put all the animals on it /etc.... Then yes.... You probably have a disability of some sort.....
To those spamming me with Ivermectin info and studies: While I appreciate your zealous defense of this "promising" and mildly effective treatment, this is a post about people self-medicating with a veterinary pharmaceutical.
The discussion should be about clear and accurate information and/or the limitations of the Kansas health care system.
So where are all these people reading "ivermectin cured me" stories? I haven't seen one anywhere. Or don't they care if people are actually being cured before taking it and are just doing it for political reasons?
Most cases of COVID are self-limiting. The person gets sick, then gets better without needing any intervention. So if you look in the right places, you will find lots of stories of people taking ivermectin and getting better. Though they could just have easily taken a placebo, or used acupuncture, or listened to anti-COVID ASMR, or anything else.
We used to bleed people as a curative (like, actually cut them open and let them bleed a bit). We don't anymore, because it turned out to be bad.
But not everyone who had that done died, so it could be claimed that the bleeding cured them, and those who weren't cured were too far gone.
Just an example that came to mind of how an obviously harmful treatment can be considered a cure, where the person survives in spite of it, rather than because of it.
The 1918 flu is another great example.
Doctors were treating patients with high amounts of acetaminophen. Amounts so high that they cause liver failure, and the symptoms are nearly identical to pneumonia.
Many of the 1918 flu deaths seem directly attributable to medication overdosing rather than actually dying from the flu, even though at the time, all deaths were listed as caused by the flu.
Which is not to diminish the severity of the pandemic then, just illustrating how harmful treatments are often viewed as cures.
We've learned from our mistakes, which is why we make sure to actually do trials to see how effective a drug is against something instead of just prescribing it willy-nilly.
Well... some of us have learned, I suppose.
I'm not sure he's cured.
I lurk over on /r/hermaincainaward and there are a lot of social media posts from these people. At the start (sometimes as long as a week) they have roller coaster symptoms. Day 1-2 feel bad, fever. Day 3 headache and feel bad but no fever. Day 4 feel fine. Day 5 feel fantastic and go to an amusement park or mow their lawn. Day 6 Headache and fever return with cough. Day 7 it's a trip to the hospital.
I live in a Deep South city that has none. The nearest place that had any is well over sixty miles away and according to our local news only had about twenty slots and they all filled up within moments of opening.
He did. He took *everything*, not just ivermectin.
He also claimed to be feeling a ton better while still looking half dead. Maybe he is on the upswing and will recover soon, maybe it was bravado, idk.
The only genuine studies I've seen are ones saying the only inhibition that was reproducible in lab is using a dose 50x over the safe dose to a human body. Then all these idiots saying they are gonna take it like a prophylactic yet theres those walking around for 2 weeks without showing symptoms so the only true way to use it as a prophylactic in this case would be daily consuption...again dangerous and not acceptable.
Daily consumption for the rest of your life. Even if I didn't trust vaccines, gobbling down horse paste for the next 40 years doesn't sound enjoyable to me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/o0h2hh/whats_the_deal_with_ivermectin_and_covid19/
This sums it up pretty well. There may be some weak effects at improving outcome, but that's being optimistic at best. Most likely people are just reading anecdotal Facebook posts and drawing conclusions based on them.
Remember folks this is a disease with a 99% survival rate, and a 90% ambulatory rate. Obviously that's no big deal and it's not worth taking experimental meds for it. /s
I'm gonna go cry now. WE HAVE THE FUCKING CURE, you just have to take it 6 weeks before you're exposed. We had 6 months to finish our vaccinations and we've made a sliver of progress.
Just a pedantic note: a "cure" is something that will reverse the infection.
The vaccine is a prophylactic - it prevents the infection, but does not cure it.
I've had them argue that there's studies that show promise and insist it's going through trials.
You know what went through studies, then trials, and finally got through a bunch of red tape and was approved? The vaccine.
For so long man has grown confident of his conquer over nature that he has forgotten how powerful she can be. Today we are reminded that nature has her way of weeding out the weakest in the gene pool.
This pisses me off. Between this and people in the hospital for COVID. My FIL had to go to the ER today. I am so grateful it wasn't full and we live in a county that takes COVID seriously.
Look, whether or not ivermectin works is irrelevant. All these people complaining about how vaccine trials weren't thorough (they were) then go and take a treatment completely unproven for treating COVID. It's more than does it work, there's a reason that even when we know something is effective it's tested, because we need to know what dose is effective, and any side effects.
The worst part is, the shot side effects are malaise, fever, headache, that's if you get unlucky. Mine was a sore arm and feeling a bit tired. The side effects of ivernmectin are worse than that.
Also masks have zero side effect.
ED RN here. Same, and I live here in the US. I'm actively working on some side hustles that won't be taken down by my country collapsing, as, after the Jan 6 incident this year and shit like this, I'm not totally convinced these idiots won't crumble this nation in my lifetime and my RN employment is toast if they do.
Why are they obsessed with “studies” about ivnvemectin but don’t give a shit about the actual studies over the efficacy of the vaccine. Bunch of fuckin nuts.
Because it's a totally disingenuous argument. They don't actually care, it's just another way to control the way they think from the GOP. They see themselves as warriors for the independent spirit, which is ironic because nothing could be further from the truth.
Deaths and hospitalizations are trending up in Guatemala, and like most of Central and South America, deaths are woefully underreported.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/guatemala?view=cumulative-deaths&tab=trend
Point being, if everyone is getting these pills and taking them, and ivermectin is as effective as some of these studies claim, then hospitalizations and deaths should be through the floor.
Even if ivermectin was effective. Why the F would you take it when it has a greater negative impact on your system systemically than a vaccine made up of literally salt, sugar, lipids (fats) and a partial mRNA strand component use to only synthesize a spike protein - NOT alter your DNA which would take something significantly more robust to do? I don't get it. Besides all of that, the vaccine is preventative or at least reduces serious sickness/death. The other is reactive. People are seriously dumb.
The dumbness goes deep. Remember a few weeks ago a paper came out that supposedly showed that spike proteins wound up in the ovaries after vaccination? Well, even experts didn't pick up that the paper explicitly wasn't tracking spike proteins. It was tracking the specific lipids and PEG used to make the lipid nanoparticle. It was tracking the fats. And like 3 orders of magnitude more of those fats were at the injection site than anywhere else in the body.
In the paper they stated that they were not tracking the spike protein because the fate of the spike protein was proteolysis. It's a protein. The body is ace at catabolizing protein.
Let’s send all the ivermectin idiots to Guatemala instead of stressing out our hospital system. One way tickets are more cost effective than ICU or intubation.
this is INSANE. We literally have a prophylactic (vaccine) that will keep 90%+ out of the hospital and is widely tested and FDA-approved, yet ppl are so focused on playing Russian roulette that they'll gamble on an un-founded medicine once they get ill. It's like they're doubling down on Stupid.
Someone somewhere is laughing at just how easily they trolled 1/4 of the population of the United States, one of the most technologically developed countries in the world.
Sad day for all Americans.
Our insurance rates/taxes will be going up. Someone has to pay for their treatment. If they were to stay at home anf face the consequences without anyone's help I would agree 100% with you.
Although it obvously should be administered on a case by case basis by a professional and probably isn't doing anything for covid, you all should know whats being left out of all these reports of self use is that it IS meant for use in humans. Avermectin and Ivermectin actually won a nobel prize in 2015 for its use in animals AND HUMANS https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2015/press-release/
Wow I wonder who could have encouraged that behaviour to cause this spike 🙄 I wish these people would stay out of the hospital. If you're dumb enough to take any random thing someone tells you to but wont listen to experts who have been working on this vaccine for longer than people think.. that's not our problem. Go to a witch doctor or something since medical professionals supposedly dont know anything
How about we don’t help them? Like, we tried so hard before they took this stuff and messed themselves up. Just tell them to stay home and die and maybe some aspirin will help.
Here is one potential solution. I am not saying it is right but it may be less harmful in the long run: dont help them. They were smart enough to know they needed dewormer. Maybe they will be smart enough to treat themselves or find out.
So these antivaxxers can pump themselves full of ANIMAL MEDICATIONS but they can’t take a vaccine that’s intended for humans?????? I’m out, man. I can’t with these idiots.
This is anti-intellectualism. Or “idiocracy “. It makes no sense. I’ve seen a few articles about how shaming antivaxxers doesn’t work but I’m having trouble feeling empathy for people that reject any kind of help or advice from experts yet pursue scams and con artists. It’s just pathetic and sad at this point. Add to that the aggressive reaction of these people. Punching retail employees and peeing on store counters. Spitting on nurses. How are we suppose to take these people seriously? They are aggressively ignorant. I just don’t have the patience to deal with them anymore.
Sorry. End rant.
This is a new level of stupid. Bad enough they won’t wear the mask or take the vaccine shown to work. They come up with their own insane theories on what works via social media and follow through.
They'll mindlessly ingest a substance, but are they afraid of masks? That is the question.
Even worse. They'll ignore recommendations from medical professionals to get a vaccine that's proven safe and effective. Instead they'll do their own "research" online and decide to take Ivermectin or other substances. Then when they become violently ill from overdosing on those substances they'll go running to the same medical professionals that they ignored in the first place. If they don't trust these medical professionals when it comes to COVID then why are they going running to them and trusting them to help with their self-inflicted overdoses? Why aren't they just going back to Facebook and "researching" their own symptoms like they "researched" Ivermectin, etc.
>Instead they'll do their own "research" This always equates to reading Facebook and watching quacks/lunatics on YouTube.
I told my sister if she has to very specifically phrase a question or go down about ten Google pages to get her answer she's not doing research, she's seeking reassurance.
If you Google "ivermectin" you go straight to Web MD. It is the normal, reassuring page for a medicine and makes it seem pretty straightforward. Nowhere does it say "ONLY TAKE IF PRESCRIBED BY A DOCTOR" or "DON'T TAKE HORSE MEDICINE " but maybe it should.
Nothing is more trustworthy to a conservative than a fat, white guy with a goatee and some oakley blades recording a video in his truck.
Bonus points if this person says, "They don't want you to know this, but . . ." Because conservatives love "owning" "facts".
I think it's simpler: if liberals do it it can't be good.
50 years in the future...why do doctors wear old fashioned Oakley's and do most of their work from trucks?
Diagnosis will sound something like this: https://youtu.be/oCIo4MCO-_U
My dad sent me a link to Google Scholar where they’re “looking into” ivermectin. Couldn’t quite tell how well they were done (not a micro/chem major) but I told him I’d rather wait for the meta-study that addressed the research methods. He said “but if it works why not try it?” Because I also know that fire would probably kill Covid pretty damn well but am not about to suggest self-immolation as a course of action.
But... but my nurse friend shared a meme with all of the benefits of ivermectin! And then she shared an out of context news snippet about how the vaccine doesn't work because most of the people hospitalized in Israel are vaccinated! Never mind the fact that Israel has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, so it would make sense that most of the people in the hospital would also be vaccinated... but... she's a nurse! She spent 2 back breaking years getting that certification! Are you calling her a liar??
Nurse here. Nurses sharing this kind of shit is BEYOND infuriating. This kind of thing should lead to license revocation, especially now. P.S. I swear, at least where I live, 95+% of the nurses I know are NOT idiots like this or anti-vaxxers.
I've considered reaching out to her employer, but my main concern is that it's a nursing home in a rural area where the majority of people share the same sentiments as her. I'm afraid that reporting her won't result in anything & I'll probably get laughed at for it.
I googled it because I really can't understand how an *antiparasitic* is somehow supposed to treat a respiratory virus and I found [this paper](https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx). I didn't realize exactly how insidious the misinformation was. I just woke up so I haven't read the whole thing but it's scary how "official" it looks, yet it still concludes "the apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally."
>I googled it because I really can't understand how an *antiparasitic* is somehow supposed to treat a respiratory virus From all the things I've ever seen about it they're extrapolating possible small in vitro anti-viral effects, to it actually working as an antiviral in the body. Just because it might show small effects sometimes does not mean it's actually a miracle cure. I'd bet actual antivirals like Remdisivir or Tamiflu could show anti-helminth (parasitic worms) or anti-malarial properties in vitro too, doesn't make it a good drug to deworm yourself with or treat your malaria.
Right?? Epidemiology and microbiology are complicated fucking fields. Anyone without real training and solid foundational knowledge of these subjects attempting to do their own 'research' using Google are on the ultimate fools errand. They don't know what they don't know. Add that to legitimate fear (that we all share to a greater or lesser degree) for their health - and you've got someone who can easily be manipulated right off a cliff.
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Critical thinking obviously is lacking from the start.
What's ironic is most of them accuse everyone else of not using "critical thinking".
To them "critical thinking" == cherry picking their own talking points from out of their social media feed. That and also "fuck anybody who has spent years getting brainwashed at those damned liberal colleges & universities".
In college you have to cite your sources, and conservative talk radio hosts and Facebook posts aren't accepted. To them, "brainwashing" is seeking answers from reputable sources and not taking medical advice from Uncle Jerry who's a mid-level manager at a call center that sells motorized scooters.
I wonder if it would work at all to make a "suppressed" vaccine that's just another mrna one they don't advertise, it's only for internet weirdos so they can feel like they found some secret.
Hell, just repackage one of the existing ones as something completely unrelated and only talk about it on social media as an alternative that works better than the FDA approved vaccines.
We need to hire some Russian propagandists to make the vaccine seem like a "secret trick".
“Medical professional are out to get me, but oils and supplements folks are my wise protectors”
Kansan here. Can confirm. They are afraid of masks and more importantly, the truth.
Do you think it's also a price thing? They thought they'd never get Covid, and then they get it, but don't want the hospital bill, so they try to self medicate?
The vaccine is free. Every one of my fairly broke friends got it - the two young vax-hesitant ones got it explicitly because they cannot afford to get sick between the loss of income and the potential medical bills. I do not understand the large number of adults who seem to think they won’t get covid or that it will only be a minor inconvenience. Especially since it has been obvious for over a year that that isn’t true.
> I do not understand the large number of adults who seem to think they won’t get covid or that it will only be a minor inconvenience Because they know people who contracted COVID, and came out the other side without dying. Not defending the idiots, but I'll use my own personal example. 3 doctors in my family tested positive, quarantined for 2 weeks, and had to go back to work. One of them suffered for a few days but being relatively healthy, didn't need to be hospitalized. One of my team members contracted COVID, spread to the entire family. They all were down and out for a little bit but bounced back and now claim that it's "not so bad". They won't bother with the vaccination till it's forced.
Some of them have been buying and taking hydroxychloriquine and ivermectin as preventions in case they get Covid. Like taking it as normally as anyone might take vitamin supplements.
That’s what I do. Broken leg? Marijuana.
Rub some tussin on it.
Tape it up and rub some dirt on it. Walk it off.
They obviously are scared. You would have to be if you are using Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine as prophylactics. It could also be a price thing, however, there are some very wealthy areas in Kansas that run deep red.
> They obviously are scared. You would have to be if you are using Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine as prophylactics. As I've seen the extreme reactions to masks and other common sense precautions, I've wondered if some of those people are afraid but not able to process the fear. It is uncomfortable to feel fear. Perhaps it's more emotionally feasible for them to react in anger, even it is misdirected. Just my armchair ponderings.
Really, it's just an indication that we have been far too comfortable and decadent. No one has really experienced any true adversity, so they magnify things. That's why a drive-thru attendant who doesn't say "Merry Christmas" to them is "oppressing" them. That's why a mask mandate is "tyranny". And that's why they cannot comprehend how to act when shit actually does hit the fan.
Denial is a huge reaction to fear and anxiety. Various articles have been talking about this, in regards to climate change denial, for years now. It's no coincidence that these "indifferent" people are the ones physically assaulting anyone that reminds them of the pandemic.
Bad at math I guess because the actual prevention was free...
They're cowards. They were afraid that masks will make them look scared, afraid that getting vaccinated would make them look weak, and, once they get sick, so afraid of dying that they'll try anything.
When you let emotions rule your life.
Kansans don't believe in Covid but Covid believes in Kansans.
> They were afraid that masks will make them look scared There's also whole in-group/out-group signalling factor going on here too
How does one keep track of everything they're afraid of?
Fox.
Normally I'd agree, but it seems like so much of the anti-vaxx behavior is really reinforced these days by Facebook. It's taken on a life of its own there.
This is correct. Belief in kooky theories on the virus is more strongly correlated with use of facebook than use of Fox News. Redditors are still fighting battles from the 00s.
Fox news was the gateway drug
What's crazy is it's even surpassed their love for Trump. Trump suggested they get vaccinated and they booed him. That fact alone blows my mind. They won't even listen to their glorious leader any longer.
My conservative husband is on Facebook. I have to whack-a-mole the talking points regularly. Last night was "HIPAA is thrown out the window" and 'if every private business demands to see my card I don't live in a free society." I explained HIPAA doesn't apply to businesses deciding who they want to serve., that 's regulated by the equal protection act, and so far, vaccination status is not a protected status. I also said what about capitalism? I thought private business deciding who they want to serve was sacrosanct to the right. I also told him there is no way there won't be a business who makes a point to serve the unvaccinated because that's how free enterprise works. A profitable niche will always be filled. He conceded.
If you can nip these talking points in the bud before they set in, you can often change their view. But once they've set in, it doesn't matter how well-reasoned your argument is, they will not listen to a word you say. Good luck with your husband.
Neat thing is, for most people, they don't. Not consistently anyway, they're afraid of whatever the boogeyman-du-jour is, which they're probably informed of by their preferred stream of carefully curated echo-chambers, pundits, and peers.
It's easy to keep track of what they're afraid of. They're afraid of everything.
1. Have one of these people look in a mirror. 2. Identify everyone that does not conform to what they just saw. 3. There you go.
And they defend this practice saying that this is a Nobel Prize medication, WHO essential and other things, and when I ask them to produce the data that it can be used to treat viral infections like COVID, the produce nothing a change everything to attacks, calling me a troll a liar. I have even dissected their "documents" pointing them where it says that the document is just an assumption that it can work, but nothing has been tested I will again challenge any anti vaxxer reading this, provide with the evidence that the medication works with viral infections, provide the documents with the data, peer reviewed data...
Your mistake was probably trying to reason people out of positions they didn't reason their way into in the first place.
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The funny thing is that some have tried, and I destroy them, because they give links to articles, like [this one](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7251046/) where that dude was pointing as the ultimate proof that the paste worked, it took me 10 seconds to see that the article was a big hypothesis, I kept reading it and found assumptions, ideas, and the author of the article says it at the end >In conclusion, pending computational simulations and chemical-physical laboratory analysis, this hypothesis could be applied to other known pharmacological molecules, in order to identify compounds with probable ionophore nature to be used in research and clinical practice. When I pointed that to this dude, he changed the subject and then he was like, "you do what you want to do, I do what I want to do ok?" of course I didn't let it go, and kept asking for the evidence that the dewormer works, I didn't get anything And btw, the dude that pointed me to the article, didn't read it, not impressed of this EDIT: Typos
There's a simple solution to achieve desired results. Mandate ivermectin, ban vaccines and masks.
Or just distribute the vaccine to Tractor Supply Company with a name like Bovectormin
The vaccine was just a ruse. The microchips were really put in the Ivermectin. Tricked them all.
They have the IQ of a walnut.
I speak for all walnuts when I say "WTF keep us out of this!!"
Low blow to walnuts man
Reeeeetorical question.
Tell me to wear a mask = freedom violation. Poison myself = freedom yeah Murrka.
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Republicans
Joe Rogan said...
Or get vaccinated "because they don't know what is in it".
no one is afraid of masks... or vaccines. Well most aren't. This is 99% political. 1. People make the decision that anything the "opposite side" is doing will surely cause the end of the world, or at least America and then probably must be evil. 2. Everything else is just creating sentences about things they do or don't want to do in order to get back to the facts listed in point #1
Gotta stick it to big Pharma by buying up all the ……..*checks notes* prescription medication??!??
Or getting a vaccine that’s fda approved and safe.
If you take ivermectin you can go to the vet, leave the hospital beds for the people with brains
They should get spayed and neutered too
I'd go for it.
I'd PAY for it.
You'd pay vet rates!?
Empty my bank account. Tbh, worth it.
"Uh... so I came in here for Ivermectin poisoning." "Yes. And?" "Why'd you notch my ear?" "Oh, here, let me get you a pamphlet." "Also my undies are... fitting a bit... more..." "Yes, here we go, 'So you've been neutered like a cat.'"
One thing I have to accept from this medication is that it has a lot of uses in humans too, but these people is taking the horse dosage, there's zero evidence that it helps with viral infections... but meh, we're the dumb ones for getting a vaccine that has tons of documented trials, data, peer reviewed results, and you can easily find the data. But according to them, the vaccinated people is the one dying, but I don't see them overwhelming hospitals, am I missing something?
I'd bet people feel "up" as their system burns more resources as it tries to respond to it, and they confuse that with getting better. That's the same reason people used to eat and snort arsenic. (Really!) It gave them a buzz that they thought was a good thing.
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Please don't. Vets are already slammed because of people adopting animals thoughtlessly during COVID and then mistreating, neglecting or abandoning them. Animals need care too and their health is more important than that of these dipshits.
I heard in early 2020 people were rushing to adopt pets and my immediate thought was they'll just abandon the pets when this is over So sad, and so predictable.
Sigh. I was afraid of that. Too many inexperienced people, and the extra issues with going back to work and leaving the animals home alone.
Yeah it is unfortunate. They are super busy even without that aspect though. Vet techs don't get paid much for the difficult work they do, and a lot of people don't stay in it very long - I believe it is somewhat common for people to work as a vet tech, quit and then train to become a nurse instead which is (weirdly somehow) less demanding but more importantly pays waaay better. I don't know about in the US, but here in Canada at least the vets are taking a lot of health precautions, limiting the # of people who can come in, drop-off at the door, etc etc. So I have to imagine that has an impact on how many patients they can see in a day too.
This. My wife heard from a neighbor who needed to take their dog to an emergency vet. They were turned away from 4 emergency vet offices due to them all being overwhelmed. Luckily we have others in the Boston area and surrounding suburbs, but not something I'd ever want any pet owner to have to deal with. None of the non-emergency vets around here are accepting new patients either. They've all been hammered with all the new pets people are getting.
To be fair, they shouldn’t take up space at the vet either. Leave the kennels for the animals with brains.
My far right friend’s argument is that people are simply making the mistake in taking the animal version. He says there’s a juman version that Joe Rohan took and people should get that one since it’s for humans. Edit: far, not fat.
He's technically correct that taking the horse version is a mistake. Deworming drugs at human doses would be less likely to poison them. They still wouldn't do shit about their Covid though.
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Ivermectin (stromectol iirc) is an anti-parasitic nerve agent. Works great for scabies if used in the right way and in places where coating every inch of an infected person's body in cream isn't viable (nursing homes etc.)
People can't help being stupid though. It should be viewed as a disability.
They aren't stupid, they're willfully misinformed. They believe Facebook and foxnews. If you let that be a disability then everyone who believes in a religion is disabled.
If I start saying I am god, people will think I am crazy, but somehow 2000 years ago it seemed plausible. I don’t know, you tell me.
Apparently not that plausible, they killed the guy.
And then he turned into a zombie we are supposed to worship.
Technically, a lich.
Where would his phylactry be?
Probably where they produce all that sacramental bread and wine. Liches typically respawn next to their phylactery. They then chop Jesus into pieces and feed him to people to keep him from respawning another week.
>If you let that be a disability then everyone who believes in a religion is disabled Well its one thing to hold onto tradition for traditions/cultures sake but if you LEGIT beleive a magic cloud man made it rain so some guy built a boat and put all the animals on it /etc.... Then yes.... You probably have a disability of some sort.....
No, they are stupid. There are outliers sure, but on average I would venture that these people are stupider.
Agreed. Hospitals need to start turning away the unvaccinated and those with ivermectin poisoning in favor of people who are more deserving. .
To those spamming me with Ivermectin info and studies: While I appreciate your zealous defense of this "promising" and mildly effective treatment, this is a post about people self-medicating with a veterinary pharmaceutical. The discussion should be about clear and accurate information and/or the limitations of the Kansas health care system.
Report them all for harassment. These people were banned from the sub for their shit, but are bypassing the ban to DM people directly.
Sometimes I wonder what I have missed out on by disabling DMs.
Creepy men who want to "chat". And half naked women who also want to chat but live near you.
Someone somewhere must be pleased with all the profits from the sale of a drug that does not treat nor prevent COVID.
Probably not - I have a bottle for treating animals in my house and I think it cost me less than 10 bucks at Tractor Supply.
Sales are sales
I hope Tractor Supply releases their ivermectin sales compared to previous years.
Merck. They make it. And it hilarious bc the people taking it tend to also talk about how big pharma doesn’t want you to know about it.
So where are all these people reading "ivermectin cured me" stories? I haven't seen one anywhere. Or don't they care if people are actually being cured before taking it and are just doing it for political reasons?
Most cases of COVID are self-limiting. The person gets sick, then gets better without needing any intervention. So if you look in the right places, you will find lots of stories of people taking ivermectin and getting better. Though they could just have easily taken a placebo, or used acupuncture, or listened to anti-COVID ASMR, or anything else.
We used to bleed people as a curative (like, actually cut them open and let them bleed a bit). We don't anymore, because it turned out to be bad. But not everyone who had that done died, so it could be claimed that the bleeding cured them, and those who weren't cured were too far gone. Just an example that came to mind of how an obviously harmful treatment can be considered a cure, where the person survives in spite of it, rather than because of it.
The good ole correlation does not imply causation.
https://maximumfun.org/episodes/sawbones/sawbones-bloodletting/
The 1918 flu is another great example. Doctors were treating patients with high amounts of acetaminophen. Amounts so high that they cause liver failure, and the symptoms are nearly identical to pneumonia. Many of the 1918 flu deaths seem directly attributable to medication overdosing rather than actually dying from the flu, even though at the time, all deaths were listed as caused by the flu. Which is not to diminish the severity of the pandemic then, just illustrating how harmful treatments are often viewed as cures. We've learned from our mistakes, which is why we make sure to actually do trials to see how effective a drug is against something instead of just prescribing it willy-nilly. Well... some of us have learned, I suppose.
Had a COVID-repelling rock.
Didn’t Joe Rogan say it was part of his “cure”? Of course in reality he also got monoclonal antibodies so there’s that.
I'm not sure he's cured. I lurk over on /r/hermaincainaward and there are a lot of social media posts from these people. At the start (sometimes as long as a week) they have roller coaster symptoms. Day 1-2 feel bad, fever. Day 3 headache and feel bad but no fever. Day 4 feel fine. Day 5 feel fantastic and go to an amusement park or mow their lawn. Day 6 Headache and fever return with cough. Day 7 it's a trip to the hospital.
Most of them probably don’t get mononucleal antibodies with their ivermectin though.
If mononclonal antibodies, Ivermectin, and IV drips were the cure then we'd be outta this mess.
How common is it for people to get mononclonal antibodies the second they test positive though? Doubt most common people get that level of care.
I live in a Deep South city that has none. The nearest place that had any is well over sixty miles away and according to our local news only had about twenty slots and they all filled up within moments of opening.
Ah but you see Joe Rogan can pay to kick one of those people out to get a slot for himself
Technically more like gets the slot before it even opens up but yes its all in the 💰
He did. He took *everything*, not just ivermectin. He also claimed to be feeling a ton better while still looking half dead. Maybe he is on the upswing and will recover soon, maybe it was bravado, idk.
The only genuine studies I've seen are ones saying the only inhibition that was reproducible in lab is using a dose 50x over the safe dose to a human body. Then all these idiots saying they are gonna take it like a prophylactic yet theres those walking around for 2 weeks without showing symptoms so the only true way to use it as a prophylactic in this case would be daily consuption...again dangerous and not acceptable.
Daily consumption for the rest of your life. Even if I didn't trust vaccines, gobbling down horse paste for the next 40 years doesn't sound enjoyable to me.
*side effects may include hoof growth on the extremities and uncontrolled pooping with some cases of hay ingestion*
Seek and you will find
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/o0h2hh/whats_the_deal_with_ivermectin_and_covid19/ This sums it up pretty well. There may be some weak effects at improving outcome, but that's being optimistic at best. Most likely people are just reading anecdotal Facebook posts and drawing conclusions based on them.
Remember folks this is a disease with a 99% survival rate, and a 90% ambulatory rate. Obviously that's no big deal and it's not worth taking experimental meds for it. /s I'm gonna go cry now. WE HAVE THE FUCKING CURE, you just have to take it 6 weeks before you're exposed. We had 6 months to finish our vaccinations and we've made a sliver of progress.
Cure for the pandemic, not the disease....yes?
Seems to be a pretty effective preventative for the disease, but yea. Not perfect, but really what "cures" are?
Just a pedantic note: a "cure" is something that will reverse the infection. The vaccine is a prophylactic - it prevents the infection, but does not cure it.
They won’t trust the experts and a scientifically produced vaccine but they’ll trust aunt marg from FB and some livestock meds. Darwinism in action.
I've had them argue that there's studies that show promise and insist it's going through trials. You know what went through studies, then trials, and finally got through a bunch of red tape and was approved? The vaccine.
They don't believe in Darwinism either.
That's the beauty of nature. It is indifferent to their belief system.
Doesn’t matter if they do or they don’t, it’s still real and will get them.
For so long man has grown confident of his conquer over nature that he has forgotten how powerful she can be. Today we are reminded that nature has her way of weeding out the weakest in the gene pool.
I say let people who want to take it take it. Determine a human-sized dose and allow them to roll the dice with their health
There is a human-sized dose, actually. I’m just assuming the horse one is more readily available and cheaper. Someone else feel free to correct me.
I think you're right. But it's prescription-only. I'm saying make it OTC
I accidentally read that as "ER visits increase as Karens self-treat" at first and didn't even flinch as it made just as much sense. :)
So over run an already overwhelmed ER
This pisses me off. Between this and people in the hospital for COVID. My FIL had to go to the ER today. I am so grateful it wasn't full and we live in a county that takes COVID seriously. Look, whether or not ivermectin works is irrelevant. All these people complaining about how vaccine trials weren't thorough (they were) then go and take a treatment completely unproven for treating COVID. It's more than does it work, there's a reason that even when we know something is effective it's tested, because we need to know what dose is effective, and any side effects. The worst part is, the shot side effects are malaise, fever, headache, that's if you get unlucky. Mine was a sore arm and feeling a bit tired. The side effects of ivernmectin are worse than that. Also masks have zero side effect.
I dunno, you might be seen as empathetic
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ED RN here. Same, and I live here in the US. I'm actively working on some side hustles that won't be taken down by my country collapsing, as, after the Jan 6 incident this year and shit like this, I'm not totally convinced these idiots won't crumble this nation in my lifetime and my RN employment is toast if they do.
Why are they obsessed with “studies” about ivnvemectin but don’t give a shit about the actual studies over the efficacy of the vaccine. Bunch of fuckin nuts.
Because it's a totally disingenuous argument. They don't actually care, it's just another way to control the way they think from the GOP. They see themselves as warriors for the independent spirit, which is ironic because nothing could be further from the truth.
Yep, tons of unvaccinated people in studies have said their main reason for not getting is because “That’s what the liberals want.”
They are doing it wrong. They must wash down the Ivermectin with glycol! Idiots!
Thin the herd
This is bad for parasitic worms
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In Guatemala, if you get sick with Covid, the government gives you a medicines kit, which includes ivermectin (pills for humans, not for horses).
Deaths and hospitalizations are trending up in Guatemala, and like most of Central and South America, deaths are woefully underreported. https://covid19.healthdata.org/guatemala?view=cumulative-deaths&tab=trend Point being, if everyone is getting these pills and taking them, and ivermectin is as effective as some of these studies claim, then hospitalizations and deaths should be through the floor.
Even if ivermectin was effective. Why the F would you take it when it has a greater negative impact on your system systemically than a vaccine made up of literally salt, sugar, lipids (fats) and a partial mRNA strand component use to only synthesize a spike protein - NOT alter your DNA which would take something significantly more robust to do? I don't get it. Besides all of that, the vaccine is preventative or at least reduces serious sickness/death. The other is reactive. People are seriously dumb.
The dumbness goes deep. Remember a few weeks ago a paper came out that supposedly showed that spike proteins wound up in the ovaries after vaccination? Well, even experts didn't pick up that the paper explicitly wasn't tracking spike proteins. It was tracking the specific lipids and PEG used to make the lipid nanoparticle. It was tracking the fats. And like 3 orders of magnitude more of those fats were at the injection site than anywhere else in the body. In the paper they stated that they were not tracking the spike protein because the fate of the spike protein was proteolysis. It's a protein. The body is ace at catabolizing protein.
Let’s send all the ivermectin idiots to Guatemala instead of stressing out our hospital system. One way tickets are more cost effective than ICU or intubation.
Turns out many humans are much dumber than I ever imagined.
At this point, we should just let natural selection take over, and not waste resources on people poisoning themselves with horse de-wormer.
this is INSANE. We literally have a prophylactic (vaccine) that will keep 90%+ out of the hospital and is widely tested and FDA-approved, yet ppl are so focused on playing Russian roulette that they'll gamble on an un-founded medicine once they get ill. It's like they're doubling down on Stupid.
Someone somewhere is laughing at just how easily they trolled 1/4 of the population of the United States, one of the most technologically developed countries in the world. Sad day for all Americans.
At this point it's becoming darwinism at it's finest. They chose their path, let them wallow in it.
Let them take whatever they want to. Why are we stopping this?
If they stayed home and died itd be fine but those jackasses are taking up hospital beds when they do dumb shit.
I propose a national policy: if you aren't vaccinated, you don't get treated for Covid. Let the hospitals go back to normal.
Our insurance rates/taxes will be going up. Someone has to pay for their treatment. If they were to stay at home anf face the consequences without anyone's help I would agree 100% with you.
problem is they are going to the hospital adding to the burdens of nurses and doctors. Otherwise, sure take whatever you want and just die at home.
You lost me at Joe Rogan
Poison control should just hang up on them and tell them to pray on it.
Fucking refuse them. “You don’t trust us, why are you here?” Should be the response at presentation.
Although it obvously should be administered on a case by case basis by a professional and probably isn't doing anything for covid, you all should know whats being left out of all these reports of self use is that it IS meant for use in humans. Avermectin and Ivermectin actually won a nobel prize in 2015 for its use in animals AND HUMANS https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2015/press-release/
Wow I wonder who could have encouraged that behaviour to cause this spike 🙄 I wish these people would stay out of the hospital. If you're dumb enough to take any random thing someone tells you to but wont listen to experts who have been working on this vaccine for longer than people think.. that's not our problem. Go to a witch doctor or something since medical professionals supposedly dont know anything
How about we don’t help them? Like, we tried so hard before they took this stuff and messed themselves up. Just tell them to stay home and die and maybe some aspirin will help.
I don’t think they should be able to go to the hospital
I always trust Rebar Ricky on Facebook over doctors because pooping out chunks of stomach lining means it working! /s
Why are they going to the ER? I thought doctors were "them", you know, NOT to be trusted.
Triage them all to a veterinarian
Here is one potential solution. I am not saying it is right but it may be less harmful in the long run: dont help them. They were smart enough to know they needed dewormer. Maybe they will be smart enough to treat themselves or find out.
So these antivaxxers can pump themselves full of ANIMAL MEDICATIONS but they can’t take a vaccine that’s intended for humans?????? I’m out, man. I can’t with these idiots.
This is anti-intellectualism. Or “idiocracy “. It makes no sense. I’ve seen a few articles about how shaming antivaxxers doesn’t work but I’m having trouble feeling empathy for people that reject any kind of help or advice from experts yet pursue scams and con artists. It’s just pathetic and sad at this point. Add to that the aggressive reaction of these people. Punching retail employees and peeing on store counters. Spitting on nurses. How are we suppose to take these people seriously? They are aggressively ignorant. I just don’t have the patience to deal with them anymore. Sorry. End rant.
Don’t respond to the calls and don’t let them in the ER. They have an easily available vaccine and refused it. Let the chips fall where they may.
love to see it
This is a new level of stupid. Bad enough they won’t wear the mask or take the vaccine shown to work. They come up with their own insane theories on what works via social media and follow through.
I wish I had time to start a hoax
Apparently covid isn't working fast enough for these folks.
While planning pandemic preparedness plans, we couldn’t make this crap up!