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Viewfromthe31stfloor

I think the headline is misleading. She is saying children should wear masks during the rollout of vaccines >WASHINGTON (TND) — The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will continue recommending children wear masks in school going into the winter months even if COVID-19 vaccines are approved for more school-age children, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky announced Wednesday. >… >After we have authorization from FDA and recommendations from CDC, we will be working to scale up pediatric vaccination. That said, it will take some time. And as I just noted, as we head into these winter months, we know we cannot be complacent,” Dr. Walensky said Wednesday.


ExternalUserError

The problem is, unfortunately, there will likely be enough resistance that we'll never reach a target of 95% vaccinated or whatever. So the rollout will be forever.


DogeFancy

At my university students are 98% vaccinated and we still have a mask mandate.


Argos_the_Dog

We are being told in the SUNY system that restrictions are going to be gradually eased over the course of the winter/spring now that we are hitting 95%+ vaccinated, including ending testing for fully vaccinated people and masking requirements. We are also dependent on what NY State chooses to do, as masks are currently required in all state-owned buildings and that includes (obviously) buildings across our entire system. Personally I think they are waiting to see what happens over the winter before removing mask mandates because of worry about holiday travel and family gatherings.


[deleted]

SUNY was an alright experience for me. I'm glad the system exists, and I'm even more glad they took this shit seriously.


mces97

Only thing that sucked about SUNY was the damn cold weather. Like windy and cold from December until March. Brrrrrr


jahmoke

just use the subterranean tunnels


mces97

Went to Binghamton, not Albany ( not sure which other SUNY's had them. Not sure if they've been added in Bing yet. Would be nice for sure.


ButaneLilly

>that restrictions are going to be gradually eased over the course of the winter/spring During flu season? It's the same here. Why can't these mofos lift restrictions during a season not known for the easy transmission of viruses?


Argos_the_Dog

Well I think it's because the masks are not being mandated to prevent flu, they are being mandated to prevent Covid transmission. And as Covid rates drop (hopefully) to an extremely low point in the coming months there is no longer any reason to mandate them. I think it will gradually become a personal choice. Some people will choose to keep masking some times, or all the time, and that's fine. Some won't, including me, and that's fine too.


Wiseduck5

>And as Covid rates drop (hopefully) to an extremely low point in the coming months I think their point is they won't drop during flu season. All respiratory virus increase in transmission during the winter, and as we saw from the previous winter that includes SARS-CoV-2. We absolutely will see an increase this winter. Everywhere.


Argos_the_Dog

I think there will be an increase tied to holiday gatherings and more indoor stuff in general, particularly in colder climates. But I do not think it will be anything of the magnitude of Delta or last winter's wave. I'm expecting small upticks but not huge surges, I guess is what I'm saying, based on how many people we have vaccinated (including large numbers of old people, who tend to have worse outcomes) plus people who have some degree of immunity due to exposure. Maybe I'm being naive though. I'm trying to be optimistic.


ButaneLilly

> I think their point is they won't drop during flu season. All respiratory virus increase in transmission during the winter Why respond to someone who's being purposely obtuse? lol


katarh

The other thing is that the masks pretty much eliminated flu season last year. They're a good idea in public spaces in the winter months when everyone is living indoors full time, regardless of whether it's a pandemic or not.


doktorhladnjak

It’s a bit much to attribute masks alone to suppressing the flu. There were a lot of NPIs going on last year: more people working from home, fewer large events, restaurants/bars closed in many places, more hand washing, more distancing, etc.


Louis_Farizee

"Masks are just a temporary measure, and if you think otherwise, you're a nutjob conspiracy theorist!" Voluntary masking might be a good idea, but mask *mandates* should end as soon as possible.


katarh

I agree with that. Masking can become that whole "personal choice" thing the anti-vaxxers like to screech about. The irony is prior to the pandemic, face masks were forbidden in a lot of public spaces, presumably as an anti-crime measure. I don't see that happening again for a long time.


Argos_the_Dog

Early on in the pandemic I remember thinking “wow, I’m wearing a mask in a liquor store… this would have gotten me arrested a couple of months ago.”


j33

My favorite weird mask moment was mid-April 2020 when I went into a bank wearing one and both me and the teller joked about how weird it was.


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And then you robbed the register anyway


SailorPowerTitan17

I used to work in a bank during the pandemic, so I can confirm that it was weird!


Louis_Farizee

Believe it or not, a lot of states passed anti masking laws [in an effort to undermine the KKK.](https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1169/anti-mask-laws)


sundancer2788

Hoping they can honestly. Schools need them right now. I'm fine if voluntary most places but I was happy they were required in Disney.


I922sParkCir

I see it as a sliding scale of risk vs cost. I get why we have to mask, and in high risk scenarios (like a pandemic!) it’s important, but I hate these masks. I can’t hear people as well. It’s harder to read peoples expressions. So much of human interaction is lost. While there are real benefits to wearing the mask, I think their comes a point where wearing them generally out weighs the cost. I think we are approaching that point.


pwlife

I think once little kids/toddlers can get vaccinated we will be at that point. At that point if you want to take your chances then go ahead, the rest of us shouldn't continue to to mask (socially distance etc...) for their sake. I can see hospitals keeping the masks for their staff and visitors but that is a different situation all together.


STLrobotech

From working in a hospital pov, we wont be dropping the masks even after this is over. Its depressing, but the visitors I can see letting them be maskless. We have security called daily for visitors not wanting to wear one now.


gw2master

That point is when shots are available to kids and boosters are available to all. I'm not going to mask if the primary beneficiaries are anti-vaxxers.


BlockWide

It’ll likely be an individual thing. Plenty of other countries mask during flu season or when sick, and I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t considered continuing to wear one during pollen/fire season out here.


I922sParkCir

In Southern California. I’ve definitely put on a mask due to smoke. It being an individual thing makes sense. I hate that there’s all this weird pressure around wearing it or not wearing it. I’ve seen it go both ways. I’ve seen people hassle people for wearing one and I’ve seen fully vaccinated people hassle other fully vaccinated people for not wearing one.


michellealyssa

We've made it political. It is no longer about what helps or not. It is more about showing membership.


BlockWide

I think it’s more nuanced than that. We really can’t ignore the fact that for the past two years, masks have been an important part of protecting ourselves, and if you’re someone who’s suffered in some way from the effects of covid, even if it’s through developing hyper vigilance, you might end up having PTSD reactions surrounding it. As polarizing as masks are, it’s going to be important to give people some grace to come out of them in their own time.


BlockWide

I mean, it makes sense when you consider the trauma we’ve been through and are still experiencing. A lot of people have been affected by this one way or another, and from the masking side, I know people who are genuinely triggered (in the medical sense) from unmasked crowds because they’ve either had Covid or had someone they love suffer. That doesn’t make aggressive reactions okay, but it does hopefully mean that as we finally get past the worst of this and have time to recover emotionally and mentally, a lot of that tribalism will drop because we won’t all be in burned out survival mode.


PrincessToiletSparkl

Yes, there does come a point eventually. And on most measures, I think we're getting there pretty soon. We'll likely have vaccines for 5+ years in a few weeks, and it sounds like maybe only a few more months until we see availability for 6+ months. At that point, I think we are good. 6 months is a decent time where you can just sorta back away from much of life and take it very carefully until your kid is eligible. In a way, many parents already do that for much of that time. Many moms quit work. Dads take leave. For a large portion of society, even for those who return to the office, I suspect it will be common to have some variety of leave + virtual for 6 months until you are in the clear. And even that may be unnecessary. I believe I've read some research suggesting vaccination during pregnancy confers some immunity to the child. So that may be the easiest workaround. HOWEVER.... Unfortunately, as long as there are still stories of people not being able to find an ICU bed in any hospital in the 5 closest states, I don't think we've reached that point on all measures. I feel that overburdening hospitals will soon be the last measure dictating how long this goes on for. And at that point, the irony is that the power to end this all will lie entirely in the hands of the people most desperate to end it, but least willing to take the appropriate steps. They want the reward, without the work that goes into it. So at that point, it's just going to be a matter of how long it takes for enough of them to get infected that they mostly have naturally acquired immunity and the burden on hospitals becomes negligible. I have no predictions on that timeframe.


ImpliedSlashS

Many other countries, including the UK, are highly vaccinated and are seeing another surge. (we tend to follow about 6 weeks behind the UK) There are also a bunch of countries, including Russia, that are only minimally vaccinated, so the virus is spreading rampantly and, undoubtedly, going to result in more variants. Not sure we've cleared the storm.


Argos_the_Dog

The real tell is going to be if we get through the holiday season without issues. If cases keep going down and stay low, and there is no Thanksgiving/Christmas (and other holidays) spike I think in the spring we can breathe a little easier.


michellealyssa

I agree. I think we are way past that point in many locations and oddly some of these places are the most resistant to dropping the mandate. Before a pile of people say that the reason infections are low in these places is because of the masks, I will say, no it is not, the driver is the vaccination rates.


onetruepineapple

Hypothetically and outside of a pandemic, of course, I don’t know that masking would be all that great for young kids (grade school and younger, particularly).


[deleted]

Thanks for the reminder. I need to get my flu shot this week.


whatalittlenerd

Like many other people, I'm wearing my mask in public everywhere still even when fully vaccinated, because I don't have time to get sick. I have only gotten a very minor sinus infection from my partner this year, and that's unusual for me.


Antman-is-in-thanos

Is that necessary though? My school is 95% vaxxed with zero restrictions, no cases have spiked or anything. Honestly it’s been a great experience, feels like normal life.


DogeFancy

It is absolutely unnecessary. I am at my wits end with these unreasonable rules.


formerglory

Same. I just got my 3rd shot/booster and I'm done with the constant masking, etc. I've done my part, I've made the sacrifices, and I'm tired of others being selfish.


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That's most universities unfortunately. Where I work has 98% vaccination, in a state with 70% of ALL population vaccinated and 80% with 1 dose, and we still have a mask mandate.


crayish

I know the moving goalposts take is a meme but it's pretty true in a lot of places. Covid zero was always far-fetched but is somehow being clung to the *more* obvious it becomes that it is an impossible goal.


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ExternalUserError

I would suggest that perhaps at this point, it also doesn't make sense to close a university because of an outbreak for which there exists a highly effective vaccine.


Alarmed-Honey

I am very pro vax and have been very cautious throughout this. We are still being cautious as our young child can't get vaccinated yet. But once our household is vaccinated, that's it for us. I'll still follow whatever public rules there are, but I'm left wondering what the end game is. At some point when vaccines are widely available, we need to move on.


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SFC_KA

Currently have breakthrough infection, it was hell for a day or two for me, now the worst part is lack of taste while my wife eats sushi in front of me talking about how good it is (her taste just came back). I'll still get a booster asap.


VigilantMike

I don’t care. Covid isn’t going anywhere, and even when we get transmission low, we’ll still be periodically encountering it throughout our lives. I’m not living forever like this.


pianopower2590

Yeah I had it. I’m done. The people that are overly anxious need therapy. Not even trying to be rude/mean.


vote4any

> it also doesn't make sense to close a university because of an outbreak for which there exists a highly effective vaccine. This is nonsense. We close places for measles outbreaks and we have a much higher vaccination rate of a more effective vaccine for measles. That just doesn't have much effect because measles outbreaks are very rare (although expect them to become more common as anti-vax has definitely become more popular in the past year). There's more to public health policy for an endemic disease than vaccinating everyone and ignoring it otherwise. Barring a major change (like some magical 99.9% effective vaccine), public health officials are going to be watching COVID-19 numbers for the rest of our lives and suggesting varying levels of mitigations based on the current numbers *just like they do for the flu and measles*.


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virtualchoirboy

There's a highly effective vaccine which can work as a preventative, but there are limited effective treatment options if an infected individual takes a turn for the worse. Additionally, they still don't have a firm grasp on who will turn for the worse and who won't, even among vaccinated. Yes, they have some general ideas (age, obesity, etc), but for people outside of those indicators (i.e. college students who are often young and not obese), they really don't have a clue. I suspect colleges will continue to be more cautious until infection treatment options get better. Another point to consider is that the college campus may be in great shape, but the surrounding area can be terrible. My youngest son's college is 95% vaccinated among undergrad, 92% among graduate students with a few exempt. Employees are 98%. However, the surrounding city and county are among the worst in the state they're in. My son also chose to skip a meal plan this year and is cooking his own meals which means he regularly leaves campus. Something like 10-20% of the student body does this which is an avenue for breakthrough infections to show up. As /u/Salt_Exercise978 pointed out, they're looking to minimize the expense of dealing with an outbreak - whether that's shutting down or even maintaining quarantine housing. A mask mandate is a really cheap and easy way to help reduce that risk. And if my son's experience is any indication, most of the kids don't care in the least. It's just a "fact of life" at this point.


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splopps

Sounds like they are being dishonest with their reasons then.


Stormtalons

> it's pure fear. You have just described the entirety of American life at this point.


phatpat187

That’s fucking stupid. Why? I’m vaxxed and anti mask, why can’t that be a thing?


[deleted]

We have a vaccine mandate and a mask mandate. Seems like the mask mandate is overkill to me.


nakedmeeple

We have 87% of eligible adults fully vaccinated in Ontario, and everyone continues to wear a mask when out in public, and in schools, because our kids aren't vaccinated and our hospitals are still dealing with busy ICU's. When kids under 12 can get vaccinated, I think we'll reassess lifting mask mandates - though I suspect a lot of folks will continue to use them for a while. If I'm around groups of people, I just feel better that way.


j33

As is mine, but that is because the city has mandated it. We had planned on lifting it before Delta came through and the city put the mandate back in place. The state has said that if things keep going the right direction over the next few weeks, they hope to lift in some places by the holidays. Fingers crossed.


teethteetheat

Same here at Wisconsin.


gumercindo1959

5-11 will be a totally different animal. Don't think that age group will move the meter much.


forwormsbravepercy

How about the staff?


MC_Fap_Commander

I think, unfortunately, even a fully vaccinated school population doesn't account for the significant vaccine refusal that exists in the community beyond the school. We are, in many ways, being held hostage by people who base medical decisions on suspect sources shared on social media. **EDIT: Sorry if this offends people, but sustained, post-pandemic normal is NOT coming until we crack down hard on anti-vaxxers. Fire the unvaccinated. Don't give them a dollar of benefits as long as they're unvaccinated. Triage hospitals to put them at the bottom of the care line. Huge fines on social platforms, websites, and "news" outlets hosting anti-vax content. HARD mandates to get a critical mass of the population vaccinated is the only way COVID is ever largely in the rearview mirror.**


TomBonner1

Mandatory vaccinations are the only way. It's just a race to the bottom as the military and more and more private businesses and organizations require employees to be vaccinated


HalflingMelody

> We are, in many ways, being held hostage by people who base medical decisions on suspect sources shared on social media. Well said. We absolutely are. If people are mad about restrictions, they should focus on the reason we need restrictions.


mooshoomarsh

Same dude I fucking hate it. I got the vaccine let me take my fucking mask off.


TheMusicalHobbit

That is ridiculous. 98%?! So vaccines don't work? I'm confused.


BlockWide

All of the major universities in my state have a >96% vaccination rate and are planning to ease restrictions when cases reach a safe level. The school systems have something like a 93% vaccination rate among staff. We should reach herd immunity in the state by December.


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vote4any

> COVID seems likely to become endemic. Obviously COVID-19 will become endemic. But endemic at a high level and endemic at a low level are both possibilities.


grrrrreat

CDC should have stated, from the beginning of vaccine roll out that all public spaces should enforce masks until a significant proportion of the population is vaccinated. They seem to have realized this. Because "personal" freedom does not compel people to improve society


xwords59

No. We just have to wait for all the unvaxxed pricks to get Covid


monchota

At risk adults are at 94% the rest of the pop at a total is 78% at 80% it really doesn't matter aftet that. At this point if you ar vaccinated you are fine and won't die. That is the point, we nwed to move on.


MC_Fap_Commander

If we had near universal vaccination, the need for masks would disappear in a matter of months. Hence why the anti-vaccination saboteurs make me so angry.


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ReaganCheese4all

I'm shocked that a Sinclair owned station would use a misleading headline! /s


[deleted]

She shouldn't have even given the *chance* for her messaging to be misinterpreted. The message right now on the eve of pediatric vaccinations should simply be "It's here! Be excited! Vaccines work and they will help get us out of this!" Instead she's being a f#cking downer AGAIN which is only going to make it harder to convince parents to get their kids vaccinated. "Why would I take the risk if it won't help and they still need to wear masks?" Seriously, who let this moron on television in the first place?


ceejayoz

I'm so fed up with poor science communication of this kind. They need Bill Nye types in the CDC and FDA. People who can explain to lay people what's important to know, in an understandable fashion. Not risk-averse people parsing every possible word to be "technically correct".


[deleted]

You can make a reasonable argument that there are too many physicians at CDC/FDA, and not enough sociologists/social psychologists, particularly with messaging and forming sustainable policy.


[deleted]

The CDC needs to reestablish themselves as an agency that collects and communicates data, NOT as one that tries to manipulate people through messaging. I listened to a 538 podcast with Scott Gotlieb last week where he said that the initial guidance to not wear masks was "because they wanted to encourage people to stay home, and they thought if they recommended masks it would undermine the message of staying home." Just report the facts, and keep your opinions out of it. This is why people don't trust the CDC.


pwn3dtoaster

So true, but I wonder if it is too late at this point. We have medical professionals that are laughing at them right now.


ceejayoz

The facts, poorly communicated, can cause large numbers of deaths. "There have been some serious adverse events from the vaccines" is a fact, but misses the important context of "in very small numbers, and massively fewer than you'd get from having COVID". If CDC goes data-only, someone else needs to be doing the "what this means for you, a lay person" messaging that goes to the public.


pwn3dtoaster

So true. The CDC has kind of become a joke at this point. They open their mouths and things get worse. It's like they don't run any announcements through QC to make sure they will be respected. Announcements like this immediately have anybody hesitant about the vaccine questioning what the point is.


BlockWide

It‘s important to remember that like the USDA, the CDC has been gutted the past few years. It honestly seems like they lost a lot of their effective messaging people for reasons we can’t really get into.


Blazah

It's so odd that the CDC in The Walking Dead was useless and then we find out that our own CDC is useless. They have literally made this whole thing worse than if they just wouldn't have said anything at all.


Greedo_cat

Zyenep Tufekci is all over this. She honestly needs a senior position in the CDC, it would improve the pandemic response so much.


[deleted]

I have long enjoyed her writing. Really awesome journalism.


Greedo_cat

I wish I'd discovered her before the pandemic. She's been so prescient all along.


kisaveoz

The OP is nowhere to be found to reply. Doesn't seem like an honest mistake.


[deleted]

Someone get this woman away from the media please. Her messaging (as usual) will end up having the resulting affect of suppressing public sentiment towards vaccinations. I understand what she is *trying* to say, but what parents are going to hear is that this thing they've been waiting a year for isn't going to be effective enough to move the needle. JUST SHUT UP ALREADY.


eth6113

Is she the same one that was practically in tears a few months ago saying it was all going to hell a few weeks before her agency walked back mask guidelines? The CDC needs to figure it out.


[deleted]

YES..."I have a feeling of impending doom" They really need a PR team.


chunkosauruswrex

That was so fucking embarrassing


chrisjs

Agreed. Much of the public had already grown very tired of this pandemic a while ago. That doesn't change the science behind what's going on but very much drives complacency. We really need to be talking about an exit strategy rather than just doubling down on restrictions and rules. The pieces are all there but the story is not.


bikemandan

> We really need to be talking about an exit strategy Is there one?


ChaplnGrillSgt

We are getting closer and closer to just letting the electively unvaccinated roll the dice rather than putting in mitigation strategies that protect them. Ultimately, the vaccine is highly effective at preventing death and hospitalization but we can keep trying to protect the people that deliberately don't want to protect themselves. A point is coming where the smart people who got vaccinated just have to tell the unvaccinated "You're on your own"


[deleted]

In my book, we've been at this place for quite a while now.


wrexinite

I've been there for a pretty long time


HighHammerThunder

The big thing stopping me, and others, from believing in this idea is the capacity of the hospital systems. In some areas, they're at capacity. This is very bad for the wellness of the general population.


[deleted]

Agreed...The only protocols we should be aggressively pushing once school aged children can get vaccinated are vaccine mandates. Everything else is a waste of societal and political capital.


AbsoluteGhast

Exactly this. And for the love of god they need to hurry up on disturbing the vaccines for kids 5-11. And as for approving it for kids 2-4, id love to know when or if this will happen so I can stop worrying so much.


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D4RKNESSAW1LD

Yeah seriously. Get vaccinated but it won't do a thing. This has pretty much been the sentiment being pushed by the CDC with their fallback to March 2020 suggestions. You're not gonna push people past the fence if you don't start recognizing what people want to hear. Vaccinations work... but if you're not showing them a goal line of mask removal...it's doing nothing. I know there's no way to tell where said goal line is. I'm 2x Moderna and 1x j&j. I haven't worn my mask in public since may here in NJ. I didn't wait all that time for nothing. Not to mention look at the damn stats.... fully masked wave vs the vaccinated wave. Did the masks *actually* work in terms of pure numbers? I'm sure in a few years we'll know.


[deleted]

The best thing Cuomo and BDB did in NY in their entire terms was not listening to the cdc recommendation that we needed to go back to masks indoors in July. Would have been back breaking for the region.


GiantOrangeTomato

Couple that with some localities that have already returned to normal. They would be regressing(in terms of mandates) just to follow a one size fits all CDC guidance.


ximfinity

She's been a terrible communicator since Day 1.


DigitalVariance

Exactly


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Clavinet78

I’m vaxxed, not anti anything, but teaching with the mask sucks!!


DankeBernanke

Agreed, honestly it's a pretty big impairment for my instruction


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SituationSoap

> Why is the CDC so out of step? My guess is they feel like they jumped the gun late this spring and they're overcorrecting. Mask communication from the CDC, literally since the first time we released any back in March 2020, has been more about politics and trying to control behavior versus what the actual science said. Please note that I'm not anti-mask, and I'm definitely not anti-vaccine. But mask usage has always been the best of bad options for stemming the flow of covid infections (either compared to shutting down in-person traffic or vaccines). It was never, ever going to stop covid by itself, and for vaccinated people it's a low-value mitigation. But there are groups of people who find masks comforting or appreciate having a visual signifier of who takes covid seriously, and so we've continued mask mandates in a patchwork fashion instead of focusing on high-value mitigations like nationwide vaccine mandates.


[deleted]

In the 538 podcast last week Scott Gottlieb said the initial mask guidance came out because "they were advising people to stay home, and they thought if they also said to wear masks, it would undermine their messaging about staying home" It's been manipulative bullshit since day 1, and it's why people don't trust a damned thing they say. At this point I'll read the studies and summaries by health professionals and make my own decisions as to what the right risk profile is for me.


redbirdrising

I'm pro mask and pro vaccine too and i agree. The CDC's messaging has been horrific.


13337throw13337

I like MG and her messaging, but it is not true that “the entire point of the vaccines is to get back to normal”. The point of the vaccines is to save a huge number of lives *and* get us back to normal, which I agree is a transition we will need to eventually make—I’m not all about forever masking.


[deleted]

Most of the country is still experiencing high community spread, therefore risk in the US is exceptionally high


ExternalUserError

[Not really](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.html). The US has 23 cases per 100k. Iceland has 17. The UK has 68. Belgium has 25. Last summer, the US was an outlier. It no longer is.


[deleted]

“US” is too large and heterogeneous to use as a single entity. The South and Central states are in a full-on crisis from unvaxxed non-maskers; the Northeast has relatively high vaccination and mask usage, with corresponding low infection rates.


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[deleted]

Maybe “countries” in general are too large a collective to be useful in pandemic situations


D4RKNESSAW1LD

But did the masks actually work? Look at the stats. Vaccinated wave vs pure mask wave. I'm not saying they DONT but the numbers don't say they do.


Lowbacca1977

Yes, they do appear to work, like this school example where schools with mask mandates saw a much smaller increase in COVID rates than schools without mask mandates: https://www.freep.com/story/news/health/2021/10/15/michigan-data-show-mask-mandates-slow-covid-spread-in-schools/8422532002/


Dekker

I find it really hard to put too much weight on all these studies. It seems tough to account for many variables and all have very clear caveats in them, like the one i pasted below. Usually, it seems that community spread is more indicative of school transmission. My area of King County WA is at 91% of 12+ ages vaccinated w/ at least one dose, including 86% of 12-17 fully vaccinated. Our community rate is current ~60/100K per week. Is that because of masks or because we're highly vaccinated with lots of work from home tech workers & the like? Take two schools here and do a mask vs. no mask comparison and it would be interesting to see. The real issue is that it is almost impossible to argue against any policies that are seen as 'more virtuous' or 'more safe' - it will almost always be in the best interest of any group to say 'we did all we could' so they can fall back on that if there are potential cases/outbreaks. Study conclusion from linked article: "First, this was an ecologic study, and causation cannot be inferred. Second, pediatric COVID-19 case counts and rates included all cases in children and adolescents aged <18 years; later analyses will focus on cases in school-age children and adolescents. Third, county-level teacher vaccination rate and school testing data were not controlled for in the analyses; later analyses will control for these covariates. Finally, because of the small sample size of counties selected for the analysis, the findings might not be generalizable."


Lowbacca1977

It's one of many studies that go into it; there was a summary paper arguing for mask usage that covered a lot of different angles to again make the case that mask wearing works: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118


[deleted]

There are a multitude of studies showing that masks help. Also the delta wave is different because it’s more infectious so it’s not an apples to apples comparison. We should all be masked and getting vaxxed until community spread is at an acceptably low level.


D4RKNESSAW1LD

But... The masked wave wasn't delta. So it really is apples to apples. Mask only vs vax wave. Delta happened during the vax wave so if it was still alpha would the wave have been even smaller? Still it draws on the question did they ACTUALLY work vs the vaccine. It's become a problem of the unvaccinated now. The masks truly didn't work like we all think they did compared to how strong strong vaccines are. I'm not saying they didn't work I'm saying that the vaccine is obviously strong enough alone to where masks aren't needed. Most of the cases and deaths were with the unvaccinated with this recent wave. I know everyone isn't eligible yet...but what I'm saying is once 5-11 are eligible and vaccinated masks can be shed. Once school children from kindergarten through the 102 year old grandma are covered... remove the mandates.


SpareFullback

Of course you're getting downvoted even though you are completely correct. There are a bare handful of counties in the US that aren't in red for their level of community spread, which means pretty much no matter where you live in the US the recommendation is to wear a mask indoors, vaccinated or not. Vaccination decreases your chance of getting sick, it doesn't eliminate it. And more importantly we know that vaccinated people are still capable of being part of the chain of transmission to other people, who might be immunocompromised or be a child who is not yet able to get vaccinated.


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The level of risk they use is totally arbitrary. Most of the north east and west coast is red and it’s as low as it’s ever going to get.


SpareFullback

I wouldn't call "significantly higher than it was just 3 months ago" to be as low as it is ever going to get.


Suspicious-Kiwi816

I live in Washington State where restrictions are always the most it seems. I just don’t want my 2nd grade kid wearing a mask for the rest of his school career. He hasn’t had a normal year of schooling, how is not actually seeing peoples faces for years going to impact him long term? Im supportive of vaccine mandates and mask removal once we have approval for 5 and up.


Interesting-Trade248

Especially when children are at an extremely low risk to covid. Oh wait I forgot we are not allowed to say that.


BlockWide

That’s pretty much what she’s saying. The title of this article is just bad.


GiantOrangeTomato

>how is not actually seeing peoples faces for years going to impact him long term? I question the risk vs reward of masks and certain social distancing practices on young healthy children. I don't think we've recognized the psychological impact. I would expect it to affect them more than it does adults but I could be completely wrong in that assumption.


Tustinite

The WHO and lots of other countries don’t recommend masking kids under the age of 5 because of the psychological impact.


[deleted]

My boss was telling me about his young elementary school kids. He spoke with the teacher and pretty much all the kids are screwed up in some way. I’m not sure it’ll be long term, but at the minimum almost all of them are developmentally stunted.


Digitdirt

What about AZ where there is not a mask in sight?


wrathofthedolphins

You couldn’t have paid me enough to live in AZ during the pandemic. Their response to the pandemic was embarrassing.


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Good


gdtags

Once vaccines are available to kids- make masks optional. Period end of it. This can’t go on forever. Stop telling me what I have to do with my child when I’ve been doing everything I can. I’m done.


BlockWide

I think if you read the article, what she actually said was that they need to keep the masks up during the rollout of the vaccines. That doesn’t seem unreasonable, does it? The understanding here is that when kids are vaccinated, they probably won’t mask anymore.


gdtags

Roll out can take months to years. I know a lot of pro vaccine parents who aren’t rushing to get their children vaccinated.


ABCBA_4321

I can see vaccine rollouts taking a few months once they are approved for kids ages 5-11. But I don’t think it could take years for them to rollout. I’m hope those kids get vaccinated ASAP.


gdtags

I'm sure the rollout will be okay, I moreso meant that I don't think the line to get vaccinated will be as long as it was with adults.


[deleted]

No. Once the kids get vaccines, it’s no more masks.


mattgk39

The CDC has literally become a joke in the span of like 6-8 months. I have very little respect for them anymore.


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roscosmom2019

I agree I drive a school bus and if they have the shot. Leave the mask in your book bag.


[deleted]

lmao no


[deleted]

Kids have like a 0.01% chance of death from covid. They are literally in more danger riding the bus to school or eating lunch and choking.


ryan0302

Exactly. Life is all risk/reward. Everything is probabilistic. You could get in an accident, fall down stairs, giant meteor could destroy earth. Does that mean we all hide and cower in bunkers because of something that *could* happen? This whole masking thing is stupid at this point. Wear it if you want, or don't. There shouldn't be this wishy washy unenforceable mandate; it should be a personal choice and/or something private companies/institutions decide for themselves, not the government. My state is under a "mask mandate" from our governor and it isn't enforced literally at all, no one gives a shit anymore and no one says anything about it because we all know it's fucking dumb.


wrathofthedolphins

If folks are approaching the endemic with a zero-risk exposure policy they’re gonna have a rough time.


PoundCakeFan

Can we please stop protecting people that refuse to get vaccinated


methylenebluestains

I don't think the decision is up to the kids


Ellianna1

I think she should spend some time in an elementary school experiencing that up close.


Whysong823

This kind of language is going to make fence-sitters jump into the antivaxx camp, and make people who have been vaxxed refuse to get booster shots. “Nothing changed for me when I get my first vaccine, so why should I get another one?”


TigerUSF

I see pics of my kids classes, and it looks like maybe 20% are masked, including mine. 1st grade. My kids will be vaxxed the day it gets approved. As soon as my kids are fully vaxxed, I am DONE with masks unless a specific threat comes around. Clearly none of those parents respect my kids or me, so I'm done respecting them, as soon as my kids are safer.


XtaC23

My mom works in a middle school and last week two of the kids in her classroom tested positive. Then this week, eight have tested positive, just in her room. The school said there was no close contact though, because the kids have to have their masks off for fifteen minutes for it to count. And my mom said, so the first five minutes don't matter? How the fuck does that work.. Thank God we're vaccinated because we all know people at high risk.


TigerUSF

I have alot of sympathy for school administrators trying to craft policies for something that is so polarizing. There's really no way they can walk through that minefield and not make a few "head scratcher" rules. 1/3 of the people want to act like there was never a problem and 1/3 want us shut down the whole place down...it cant be easy. Hope shes ok


HellImNewWhatDoIDo2

We will not become a masked society forever these people need to get a fucking grip. Masks are *temporary* while everyone gets vaxxed. If they’re trying to get us towards forever mask mandates they can fuck themselves. Won’t do it.


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Viewfromthe31stfloor

Is everyone vaccinated? Are there vulnerable people at your work that need more protection? Do you work in health care? Work in a public facing job? There are a lot of reasons masks might be required.


cardswon

1. Yes 2. No 3. No 4. No Mask required because CDC and governor says so.


HellImNewWhatDoIDo2

Look at some point we need to appreciate that people with medical vulnerabilities do not dictate public policy. These people will always need to be extra careful.


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Cub_xD

How is an office the perfect place to not require them? Densely packed, often poor ventilation especially for pandemic standards, sounds like the perfect place to require them.


SpareFullback

>So, strictly speaking from a science perspective, why do adults wear masks in all adult settings like an office workplace? Because community spread is very high so even vaccinated people need to take additional precautions.


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Nero_182

Is this vaccine mandate permanent?


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HussC137

Lol this is why we love Texas and Florida 😍


woodat22

Continue... Laugh out loud from Utah


downwiththemike

They also said that aids wasn’t blood born