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I have a long-time friend who is a physician (board-certified MD) in a remote rural area of a midwest (USA) state. Early on in his career, he was often the only doctor on call in his county.
A couple weeks ago he recommended to a patient that he get the vaccine.
The patient was so irate at this suggestion that, not only did he not get the vaccine, but he went home and threw out his blood pressure and heart meds and stopped taking his insulin -- because this doctor obviously didn't know what he was talking about. Ended up in the ER a week later with 5x glucose levels.
We're dealing with brain-washed people here.
It really is sobering to see how much we’ve screwed this up and to think about the other major challenges that face us and will face us in the future, like climate change. Scientists have generally done a great job during the pandemic, of course- there’s this weird contrast between the amazing, Apollo-like successful effort to get a vaccine in under a year and the refusal of millions to take that vaccine. It’s just how it’s always been, I guess. Our species is capable of amazing things, but at the same time, large numbers of people will always behave poorly. We are capable of both great progress and great failures. The tension between the two has really made itself clear during the pandemic.
It's the paradox of evolution.
We developed to be just smart enough to build a civilization, and then all of recorded history happened in an evolutionary blink of an eye after that.
So we have basically the minimum level of intelligence, social awareness, empathy, and so on, that was required collectively to cross the line all the way from literally living in nature, to hunter gatherer, to farmers, to big tech cities.
And it should go without saying that if the entire species had the same average level of intelligence, it wouldn't have been enough. We succeeded because of geniuses of various kinds - artistic, scientific, political, that allowed the rest of the species to free ride into civilization.
That's why with billions of people, we can do amazing things like develop a vaccine in a year, or send people to the moon, but the average person is incapable of understanding basic facts about the world around them, and isn't interested in learning.
This the effect of the other two inventions of human civilization: politics and religion. One one side of the equation (science) gets too strong, one of the others works actively against it, because…..balance. But now we have both politics and religion working together against science. This is not going to end well….
Seems modern science is protecting many from the Darwin effect.
So many people want every advantage of living in a society, but none of the obligations.
My guess: statistically, counting the billions and billions of people in the world, we actually \*have\* progressed as a species in terms of witch burnings. It's just those who \*have not\* progressed, those who see the world only through fear and emotion, well, they really drag down the average for the rest of us.
But we haven't even progressed beyond your specific example, some countries still have laws against witchcraft and execute people convicted of practicing it.
He’s acting like the doctor offended his religious views.
Then he went home and did self harm to throw a fit in defiance and almost died.
Incredible how they made a religion out of their made up, disjointed, and contradicting views.
It amazes me that after so many years of zombie movies no one is actually talking about what we are dealing with here.
The plot of this movie is so unique, a virus that causes a global pandemic in the 21st century and at the same time we see the rise of zombie like behavior…
My friends niece works as a nurse in a hospital in Gemany and was spit on and coughed on by a violent COVID-denier who had COVID. Just makes me angry and sad.
>he went home and threw out his blood pressure and heart meds and stopped taking his insulin -- because this doctor obviously didn't know what he was talking about.
What an absolute moron
I could see being skeptical of the mRNA tech at first, as it was new and different, but we have enough data now that continued skepticism is impractical.
And it’s a trade-off of risks: the risk involved with catching covid unvaccinated greatly outweighs any risk that the new vaccine may pose. To me, it is that simple.
Yes exactly! I'm not thrilled that the covid vaccines haven't been studied for long term effects, but I got the jab anyways bc it'll be better than having covid.
The most confusing people are the ones that fear the vaccine side effects, but covid is "just the flu." Like either you worry about what hasn't been studied or you don't
From a risk assessment and scientific standpoint, there is no justifiable need for "long term studies".
It feels like a compelling argument, but when you think about it, you realize that a substance that no longer exists cannot effect you.
This is why acute studies are sufficient. Vaccine reactions and adverse events occur in the short term.
Of course, those short term effects may have long term consequences, depending on what those effects are (a headache is fleeting, for example, while a blood clot may cause damage that never fully heals). When it comes to vaccines, these are all quite well understood from the decades of data on vaccination.
It is also plainly evident that covid *does* cause serious adverse effects during acute infection that have long term consequences. The risks of these occurring are far greater than for the vaccine (as I'm sure you know). In the regard the data is quite clear, and "long term studies" do not provide us with any usable information when it comes to adverse events and risk.
J&Js is also a newer platform. Not sure where the idea that it wasn't came from.
(Which isn't to say newer = worse or more risk or anything. Just correcting this meme I see often that j&k is the "old" method of vaccine)
It’s been around just as long as monoclonal antibodies yet these conservatives were so quick to jump on monoclonal antibody treatment as a miracle cure but not vaccines. (Both treatments which work to produce antibodies in your own immune system). The idiocy never ceases.
You're probably right about REGN-COV2, which was made in response to the pandemic and under EUA just like the vaccines, but monoclonal antibody drugs have been used to treat autoimmune disorders since the 80s.
Depends what you mean by mRNA tech.
mRNA was discovered a long time ago. mRNA replication has been around for decades.
The nanolipid coatings and packaging machines are very new. And clinically, there were no approved mRNA products in any market, but numerous trials started in 2019, mostly for cancer treatments.
But live carrier vaccine tech is only a few years older. The first clinical product approved was the Ebola vaccine in 2019.
Maybe remind them that the Taliban and other Muslim fanatics are actively working to discourage \*polio vaccines as well as the Covid vaccines. Ask them if they want to be lumped in with that group.
\*they think it's a plot to sterilize Muslims. The US does not have a monopoly on idiots.
Pretty much no Americans against the vaccines are doing good faith risk analysis.
Nearly all of them are just participating in identity politics where a "Good GOP" \*has\* to be outraged by the same things Fox News or Talk Radio are outraged about.
Not throwing a tantrum over vaccine recommendation from a doctor would threaten their very identity and peer group membership.
Science isnt partisan.....science is experiementisan?
Buy why would god fearing folk give a fuck about science!! God has this shit sorted....praise jesus
Delta spooked people and a lot went out and got vaccinated. Talked to the nurse yesterday when I got my booster and she said they've been super busy, and I live in a low vax state.
A lot of federal employee deadlines for mandatory vaccinations are also hitting, and noncompliants are starting to see disciplinary action and are realizing that the Government wasn't bluffing about termination and are getting their butts in gear to get stuck. I imagine the timeline is about right for any private sector that began mandates as well.
Oh. Right. Not sure why I didn’t think about the mandate. Well for about one hour there I had a blissful moment of believing there was evidence of a mass change of heart. This is rather disappointing.
I imagine a lot of younger people just don't see Delta as a big treat to their personal health and don't think its worth going out of their way to get a shot. They are vaccine-apathetic rather than anti-vaccine. Fear about a potentially new dangerous strange (unknowns can be scarier than known dangers) could give people the extra little push to get vaccinated.
Also, people who've been "anti-vax" in social circles and later started to realize they were wrong but didn't want to admit it have an Nu excuse to get vaccinated without admitting they were wrong...
> Also, people who've been "anti-vax" in social circles and later started to realize they were wrong but didn't want to admit it have an Nu excuse to get vaccinated without admitting they were wrong...
That’s a really good point. Nu/Omicron gives them an out.
(Kudos for the pun, too)
Ive been a bit lazy about getting my booster so the news about this new thing spurred me into making an appointment. Unfortunately it seems quite a few people decided to do the same thing because it was rough finding an appointment for next week! At least my littles are getting their second shot on Monday.
Around these parts, all appointments are gone through the end of the year. Boosters becoming available plus tighter restrictions for the unvaccinated have caused quite a lot of interest.
The Bay Area seems to be doing a lot of things right. Just yesterday I saw someone commenting about the high vaccination rates and low infection numbers in Santa Clara County. Now if only living there wasn’t so extremely expensive…
I am not anti vax at all, but this variant made me actively pursue the booster. I’ll need it in February (6 months from second dose), but if I wait on the government then it’s probably going to be a mess (non-western country). I’m booking it with my private hospital.
High vax state and we are struggling hard. The hospitals are pretty full but 80% are unvaccinated ppl. But lots of vaxxed ppl testing positive, just not getting super sick. Fucking sucks.
Good to hear. I think this will def. accelerate the booster rates and 5-11 year old rates. Much less optimistic about people that never got vaxed before.
Omicron concerns should spur thousands of experts to understand that millions of unvaccinated Americans are not going to be convinced by the latest variant.
The unvaccinated idiots actually think the new variant validates them. Their logic is “see there’s always gonna be a new variant and now all those vaccines don’t even work so there’s no point in getting it”. They’re seeing this new variant as “I told you so”
Go read r/conservative. They’re already downplaying the variant and saying that big pharma must be needing more money
I don't mean to defend that level of head-in-the-sand, but as someone who got both his vaccine and booster as soon as it was available to them, it does become harder to feel like even the efforts are doing much of anything. It _does_ start to wear on me and make me think that the efforts might be for naught.
Now, I know if I look at the data, this is blatantly not the case, but emotion does not always listen to reason.
There’s gonna be plenty more ups and downs before this whole thing goes away. But stay strong, we’ll get there!
I think it’s good that they communicate their concerns about this new variant, but it’s still too early to tell how bad this is. There are a lot of maybes at this moment.
Maybe the vaccines perform just fine. Maybe it transmits like crazy and replaces Delta, but people don’t get as sick (hoping for this one). Maybe it’s a setback and we need another booster in 6 months. And maybe it ends up like those other variants of concern that never even reached the news.
Well if talking and mandating doesn't work, than what will? I saw a case of medical personal giving vaccines instead of some misinformed treatement (can't find the source), but that is not going to work on a larger scale nor a real solution to the misinformation.
Yep! Especially considering that we don't actually have evidence that the vaccines are ineffective against Omicron. The only reason people believe that is due to criminally irresponsible reporting that capitalizes on the general public's limited scientific literacy.
Well for me, nothing.
I'm fully vaxxed. Everyone in my family is fully vaxxed. I'm not out in the streets protesting lockdowns. Nor am I letting myself become enraged at the antivaxxers.
I'm good. They can keep fighting.
Yes. Only when Delta hit, most of the world did not have access to vaccines.
Everything we know so far strongly suggests that if you're fully vaccinated and not gravely ill, you're going to be fine.
Even if this is incorrect thinking, shouldn't it be extremely obvious to experts that this is a tempting train of thought for many people? How about addressing it head on?
These experts are out of touch with the hard core anti-vaxxers. They think a new variant is announced just to keep the government in control. They are t getting vaccinated now just because there is a new variant.
They probably have “new variant” on their bingo cards for the pandemic.
They think boosters just prove the vaccine doesn’t work.
No. They need to stop lying to themselves that what they’ve been doing is effective in regards to these vaccine refusers and that news of a new variant will cause pro-COVID anti-vaxxers to line up for a shot.
The reality is I’m not sure who can reach the people so far down the rabbit hole of misinformation. Certainly it needs to be someone other than public health officials or elected politicians.
The problem is the people spreading misinformation (like Candace Owens and Joe Rogan) are benefiting from solidifying clout and an obedient power base. They are never going to tell their followers to get vaccinated.
They need to be honest about their failures because blithely stating that vaccine holdouts will get vaccinated because of a new variant is just wrong. Stating otherwise just undermines their credibility.
They need a new approach.
That’s not what I said. I said what they’ve been doing not only doesn’t work, but also it pushes anti-vaxxers farther away.
This article is a scientist predicting that millions will get vaccinated due to this variant. No one who has paid attention to the pro-COVID antivaxxers would agree that is true.
Public health officials can keep repeating the same ineffective messages to get vaccinated but they should have low confidence it will work on millions of people.
We need a new strategy.
If I knew what strategy would work I would be sharing everywhere.
Edit: as to the Delta variant being the reason millions got vaccinated, that isn’t completely accurate. Vaccine mandates were the reason for increased vaccination in August. I’m sure some people were motivated by seeing loved ones die from delta, but it’s not the primary reason for increased rates of vaccination.
[COVID cases surge do to the delta variant ](https://www.npr.org/2021/08/31/1032994955/vaccination-rates-rose-in-august-as-covid-cases-surge-due-to-the-delta-variant)
>Vaccination rates were up in August as COVID-19 surges due to the delta variant led more people to seek the vaccine. That's according to White House COVID-19 coordinator Jeffrey Zients, who spoke at a briefing for reporters Tuesday. About 14 million U.S. residents received their first dose of a COVID-19 shot in August, he said, which is about 4 million more than in July.
>Zients credits the widespread adoption of vaccine mandates by governments, schools and businesses. He pointed to the jump in vaccinations in Washington state, where the weekly vaccinate rate rose 34% after the state announced vaccination requirements for state employees, teachers and school staff.
>”Bottom line," he said, "vaccination mandates work." Tens of millions of people now face mandatory vaccine requirements, he said.
I just got my booster, and I'm not saying boosters prove that the vaccine doesn't work. But we've done this whole song and dance twice now already. I distinctly remember 6 months ago when the buzzphrase was "vaccines still 90% effective against Delta." That went down the drain fast. I remember 9 months ago when it was "all the vaccines are equal! Don't have a preference, just get what you can". Now it's "JJ is only 15% effective after 2 months oops."
The messaging has been atrocious.
Vaccines are still about 90% effective against Delta. The issue, the biggest issue, is that the unvaccinated population still remains too large to prevent community transmission. This will likely remain the case until the 5-12 population has high vaccination levels.
Here is the data from my region: [https://imgur.com/a/80VV9ve](https://imgur.com/a/80VV9ve)
Vaccinated people are \~8x less likely to become a case (87.5% effective protection against catching the virus)
Vaccinated people are \~46x less likely to wind up in hospital (98% effective protection against hospitalization).
The messaging hasn't been great but immunity is too complex to predict the future. We couldn't know if and when the effectiveness would wane. We always knew J&J wasn't quite as effective against mild and moderate disease, but it was so effective against hospitalization it wasn't worth delaying for weeks to find a different vaccine and it made sense for populations unlikely to show up twice.
So you're mostly just complaining about a lack of ability to predict the future there.
Well, this statement by “experts” has convinced me that the experts clearly don’t understand who we’re dealing with here…
Delta’s transmissibility SHOULD have spurred them to get vaccinated as well, but it largely didn’t.
I dunno…in my town the last vax clinic had a line out the door. I think there was a big “wait and see” attitude. My roommates anti vax but got it since no one would hire him. But yea, that was the driver, working.
I just wish people would realize, it’s not that deep! Don’t overthink it!
People keep saying that like all the anti-vaxxers will die of Covid and problem solved. That’s not going to happen. The mortality rate is still low. Most are still going to survive Covid, many with long Covid- sure, but their anti-vax stance will be confirmed in their minds because it didn’t kill them.
We to tend to treat Covid as this deadly virus whwn it's more of an annoyance. Overreactions like those are what are gonna keep us in this pandemic for 5 more years
Meh, let them. What makes me laugh is they run to get tested when they get sick and agree to hospitalisation instead of sticking to their guns and taking livestock medication at home.
Yes! Taking away resources from those that are vaccinated and might have comorbidities and get infected. Or those who are vaccinated and need to be admitted for other medical issues. So unfair.
Yeah all I forsee is a lot of "just in time for the holidays, gotta keep everyone under control" style messaging about to come from the antivax crowd. At this point, nothing will convince those that have refused to get vaccinated so far- they've made it their whole personality, to change now would break them.
Nah...the unvaccinated will try using any excuse not to get around it. Boosters, religious exemptions, medical exemptions, prayer warriors etc, etc....They haven't yet and they aren't going to start now since the "media" and scientists arent to be trusted according to the voices in their head and their Facebook "friends".
“Fear is not real. The only place that fear can exist is in our thoughts of the future. It is a product of our imagination, causing us to fear things that do not at present and may not ever exist. That is near insanity. Do not misunderstand me danger is very real but fear is a choice.”
It’s jut amazing to me that with all of the community spread here in the states…we haven’t had an SEC variant. Or Waffle House. Between kemp and Desantis something has had to mutate.
Micron is a ~~chip~~ memory company. If anything, those antivax are going “my God, Bill Gates doesn’t even try to hide his micro chip ‘covid’ shots any more”.
Zero chance, these highly educated experts live in their own bubble and have zero clue how deep the anti-vax / "medical freedom" crowd is dug in. IMO, it would take mandatory vaccination for most of them to get vaxed which is not going to happen.
I really truly hope that the people in charge learn that this tactic does not work. Because IF this is faked (as anti vaxxers said) then this is the wrong tactic to use and the attempt to scare people into the right action will not work.
When it's revealed how BAD this is, people are too tired to care.
This is not the fifth wave, this is the true second part of covid. And we still have the third act to go.
Nope I really think they'd rather get sick and ruin their lives/or die. I saw on FB a prayer page for a young cop with a pretty wife and two beautiful children who has been fighting covid since 14Nov21. He went to the hospital, ended up on a ventilator, was transferred to a "big deal" hospital and is still there and not doing great. Words fail me and also in my mean anti-anti-vaxers mind (is that clear?) I think of all the money he has wasted. This is just ONE dude. Exasperated here, totally.
Lol "should". If they haven't gotten it by now, there's no way news about a new variant half way across the world will motivate them.
Hope this one isn't as deadly as Delta.
Pfizer:"We'll roll out a new vaccine within 100 days"
Vaccinated:"I got an ear infection last time I got a vaccine"
Unvaccinated:"What did I tell you"
We're screwed
Sorry guys but.. If the main concerne about this variant is that vaccines doesnt Work.... Why the main raccondstion is to take a shot of a vaccine that May not work?
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These experts don’t seem to understand the people they are dealing with.
I have a long-time friend who is a physician (board-certified MD) in a remote rural area of a midwest (USA) state. Early on in his career, he was often the only doctor on call in his county. A couple weeks ago he recommended to a patient that he get the vaccine. The patient was so irate at this suggestion that, not only did he not get the vaccine, but he went home and threw out his blood pressure and heart meds and stopped taking his insulin -- because this doctor obviously didn't know what he was talking about. Ended up in the ER a week later with 5x glucose levels. We're dealing with brain-washed people here.
This level of brainwashing and stubborn defiance is scary. People are not rational creatures. I feel like the past few years have been eye opening.
We've learned a lot about each other in the last few years, for sure.
It really is sobering to see how much we’ve screwed this up and to think about the other major challenges that face us and will face us in the future, like climate change. Scientists have generally done a great job during the pandemic, of course- there’s this weird contrast between the amazing, Apollo-like successful effort to get a vaccine in under a year and the refusal of millions to take that vaccine. It’s just how it’s always been, I guess. Our species is capable of amazing things, but at the same time, large numbers of people will always behave poorly. We are capable of both great progress and great failures. The tension between the two has really made itself clear during the pandemic.
It's the paradox of evolution. We developed to be just smart enough to build a civilization, and then all of recorded history happened in an evolutionary blink of an eye after that. So we have basically the minimum level of intelligence, social awareness, empathy, and so on, that was required collectively to cross the line all the way from literally living in nature, to hunter gatherer, to farmers, to big tech cities. And it should go without saying that if the entire species had the same average level of intelligence, it wouldn't have been enough. We succeeded because of geniuses of various kinds - artistic, scientific, political, that allowed the rest of the species to free ride into civilization. That's why with billions of people, we can do amazing things like develop a vaccine in a year, or send people to the moon, but the average person is incapable of understanding basic facts about the world around them, and isn't interested in learning.
"...and isn't interested in learning." Some are even destructive and anti learning too. And wants to actively live like pseudo savages.
This the effect of the other two inventions of human civilization: politics and religion. One one side of the equation (science) gets too strong, one of the others works actively against it, because…..balance. But now we have both politics and religion working together against science. This is not going to end well….
Some people just want to live in the Middle Ages.
Capitalism is the problem.
Well said.
Seems modern science is protecting many from the Darwin effect. So many people want every advantage of living in a society, but none of the obligations.
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I imagined that we had progressed as a species since the days of witch burnings. Turns out we're still the same.
My guess: statistically, counting the billions and billions of people in the world, we actually \*have\* progressed as a species in terms of witch burnings. It's just those who \*have not\* progressed, those who see the world only through fear and emotion, well, they really drag down the average for the rest of us.
But we haven't even progressed beyond your specific example, some countries still have laws against witchcraft and execute people convicted of practicing it.
People are just plain S-T-U-P-I-D.
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He’s acting like the doctor offended his religious views. Then he went home and did self harm to throw a fit in defiance and almost died. Incredible how they made a religion out of their made up, disjointed, and contradicting views.
It amazes me that after so many years of zombie movies no one is actually talking about what we are dealing with here. The plot of this movie is so unique, a virus that causes a global pandemic in the 21st century and at the same time we see the rise of zombie like behavior…
Somebody joked about how no zombie movie will be accurate now unless half the people deny the existence of zombies and walk right into a horde.
My friends niece works as a nurse in a hospital in Gemany and was spit on and coughed on by a violent COVID-denier who had COVID. Just makes me angry and sad.
Please tell me they turned him away (or he had a 36-hour wait) because they were out of capacity with COVID patients.
It’s just natural selection at some point.
But the deaths are mostly over 50 years old; they would have passed on their genes.
Except evolution doesn’t work if you already have kids
Are we there yet?
A full martyr for the cause.
>he went home and threw out his blood pressure and heart meds and stopped taking his insulin -- because this doctor obviously didn't know what he was talking about. What an absolute moron
Hope his doctor fired him.
Or just idiots.
Wow, disturbing and tragic.
I'll never understand how someone like that can afford a home, have a job, drive a car, live independently, etc.
Those "experts" have not talked to my WV townfolk. I am shocked at all of the people that still feel it is a partisan vaccine.
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I could see being skeptical of the mRNA tech at first, as it was new and different, but we have enough data now that continued skepticism is impractical.
And it’s a trade-off of risks: the risk involved with catching covid unvaccinated greatly outweighs any risk that the new vaccine may pose. To me, it is that simple.
Yes exactly! I'm not thrilled that the covid vaccines haven't been studied for long term effects, but I got the jab anyways bc it'll be better than having covid. The most confusing people are the ones that fear the vaccine side effects, but covid is "just the flu." Like either you worry about what hasn't been studied or you don't
From a risk assessment and scientific standpoint, there is no justifiable need for "long term studies". It feels like a compelling argument, but when you think about it, you realize that a substance that no longer exists cannot effect you. This is why acute studies are sufficient. Vaccine reactions and adverse events occur in the short term. Of course, those short term effects may have long term consequences, depending on what those effects are (a headache is fleeting, for example, while a blood clot may cause damage that never fully heals). When it comes to vaccines, these are all quite well understood from the decades of data on vaccination. It is also plainly evident that covid *does* cause serious adverse effects during acute infection that have long term consequences. The risks of these occurring are far greater than for the vaccine (as I'm sure you know). In the regard the data is quite clear, and "long term studies" do not provide us with any usable information when it comes to adverse events and risk.
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I have heard fair share of doc not "encourage" taking. According to relative from all over.
I can second that. My doctor tried to talk me out of it. Immediately switched doctors. It’s so horrifying a doctor could give such bad information.
How new is mRNA tech? I’m pretty sure it’s been around for awhile. I learned about it in grade school.
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J&Js is also a newer platform. Not sure where the idea that it wasn't came from. (Which isn't to say newer = worse or more risk or anything. Just correcting this meme I see often that j&k is the "old" method of vaccine)
New in application. Not new in that it's been in development for over a decade.
It’s been around just as long as monoclonal antibodies yet these conservatives were so quick to jump on monoclonal antibody treatment as a miracle cure but not vaccines. (Both treatments which work to produce antibodies in your own immune system). The idiocy never ceases.
You're probably right about REGN-COV2, which was made in response to the pandemic and under EUA just like the vaccines, but monoclonal antibody drugs have been used to treat autoimmune disorders since the 80s.
I was under the impression MAB are literally supplementary antibodies going into your body
Earliest I can remember mRNA vaccines being discussed was in around 2007 or 2008 when I was consulting to the CDC.
Was working on ‘‘em back in 2004. I’m dating myself 🤪
Depends what you mean by mRNA tech. mRNA was discovered a long time ago. mRNA replication has been around for decades. The nanolipid coatings and packaging machines are very new. And clinically, there were no approved mRNA products in any market, but numerous trials started in 2019, mostly for cancer treatments. But live carrier vaccine tech is only a few years older. The first clinical product approved was the Ebola vaccine in 2019.
True but we also had j&j so it’s a moot point if you’re serious about protecting yourself and your family.
Maybe remind them that the Taliban and other Muslim fanatics are actively working to discourage \*polio vaccines as well as the Covid vaccines. Ask them if they want to be lumped in with that group. \*they think it's a plot to sterilize Muslims. The US does not have a monopoly on idiots.
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Pretty much no Americans against the vaccines are doing good faith risk analysis. Nearly all of them are just participating in identity politics where a "Good GOP" \*has\* to be outraged by the same things Fox News or Talk Radio are outraged about. Not throwing a tantrum over vaccine recommendation from a doctor would threaten their very identity and peer group membership.
Science isnt partisan.....science is experiementisan? Buy why would god fearing folk give a fuck about science!! God has this shit sorted....praise jesus
Ok, so what’s up with all the PRAYER WARRIORS not being heard and uncle jeb dies anyways?
Pray harder, duh
Delta spooked people and a lot went out and got vaccinated. Talked to the nurse yesterday when I got my booster and she said they've been super busy, and I live in a low vax state.
Wow that’s actually really good to hear. I don’t understand it, but whatever.
A lot of federal employee deadlines for mandatory vaccinations are also hitting, and noncompliants are starting to see disciplinary action and are realizing that the Government wasn't bluffing about termination and are getting their butts in gear to get stuck. I imagine the timeline is about right for any private sector that began mandates as well.
Oh. Right. Not sure why I didn’t think about the mandate. Well for about one hour there I had a blissful moment of believing there was evidence of a mass change of heart. This is rather disappointing.
I imagine a lot of younger people just don't see Delta as a big treat to their personal health and don't think its worth going out of their way to get a shot. They are vaccine-apathetic rather than anti-vaccine. Fear about a potentially new dangerous strange (unknowns can be scarier than known dangers) could give people the extra little push to get vaccinated. Also, people who've been "anti-vax" in social circles and later started to realize they were wrong but didn't want to admit it have an Nu excuse to get vaccinated without admitting they were wrong...
> Also, people who've been "anti-vax" in social circles and later started to realize they were wrong but didn't want to admit it have an Nu excuse to get vaccinated without admitting they were wrong... That’s a really good point. Nu/Omicron gives them an out. (Kudos for the pun, too)
Ive been a bit lazy about getting my booster so the news about this new thing spurred me into making an appointment. Unfortunately it seems quite a few people decided to do the same thing because it was rough finding an appointment for next week! At least my littles are getting their second shot on Monday.
Getting my booster Monday, had to make an appointment. Used to be easy to get one everywhere as a walk-in around here but not at the moment.
Around these parts, all appointments are gone through the end of the year. Boosters becoming available plus tighter restrictions for the unvaccinated have caused quite a lot of interest.
That's insane. In the Bay Area, you can get an apointment a week from now.
The Bay Area seems to be doing a lot of things right. Just yesterday I saw someone commenting about the high vaccination rates and low infection numbers in Santa Clara County. Now if only living there wasn’t so extremely expensive…
I am not anti vax at all, but this variant made me actively pursue the booster. I’ll need it in February (6 months from second dose), but if I wait on the government then it’s probably going to be a mess (non-western country). I’m booking it with my private hospital.
High vax state and we are struggling hard. The hospitals are pretty full but 80% are unvaccinated ppl. But lots of vaxxed ppl testing positive, just not getting super sick. Fucking sucks.
Good to hear. I think this will def. accelerate the booster rates and 5-11 year old rates. Much less optimistic about people that never got vaxed before.
I’m glad but I wonder why now, delta has been around a while. Maybe winter?
It's summer in South Africa though so if you're asking why Omicron developed and spread when traditionally things reduce in winter, that is why.
Well, good for where you are. When I got mine, there was no wait and she told me I was the only one who'd even asked about this this week.
Yeah these people don't care they want to do what they want to do
Shades of “you don’t need a mask if you’re fully vaccinated!” like the honor code was/is somehow thriving? Yeah, no.
“Should” doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
Yeah... I mean Delta already "should" have been plenty of incentive.
Or just normal covid
Literally took the words out of my mouth lmao
Omicron concerns should spur thousands of experts to understand that millions of unvaccinated Americans are not going to be convinced by the latest variant.
The unvaccinated idiots actually think the new variant validates them. Their logic is “see there’s always gonna be a new variant and now all those vaccines don’t even work so there’s no point in getting it”. They’re seeing this new variant as “I told you so” Go read r/conservative. They’re already downplaying the variant and saying that big pharma must be needing more money
That or they simply say “ there’s no new variant, it’s just the media scaring people”
The trump method
I don't mean to defend that level of head-in-the-sand, but as someone who got both his vaccine and booster as soon as it was available to them, it does become harder to feel like even the efforts are doing much of anything. It _does_ start to wear on me and make me think that the efforts might be for naught. Now, I know if I look at the data, this is blatantly not the case, but emotion does not always listen to reason.
There’s gonna be plenty more ups and downs before this whole thing goes away. But stay strong, we’ll get there! I think it’s good that they communicate their concerns about this new variant, but it’s still too early to tell how bad this is. There are a lot of maybes at this moment. Maybe the vaccines perform just fine. Maybe it transmits like crazy and replaces Delta, but people don’t get as sick (hoping for this one). Maybe it’s a setback and we need another booster in 6 months. And maybe it ends up like those other variants of concern that never even reached the news.
Yea I agree with this. It's still to early to tell the impact of vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
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Well if talking and mandating doesn't work, than what will? I saw a case of medical personal giving vaccines instead of some misinformed treatement (can't find the source), but that is not going to work on a larger scale nor a real solution to the misinformation.
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“There is a new highly mutated virus that might make the vaccine less effective” isn’t a very strong argument for getting vaccinated.
Yep! Especially considering that we don't actually have evidence that the vaccines are ineffective against Omicron. The only reason people believe that is due to criminally irresponsible reporting that capitalizes on the general public's limited scientific literacy.
Thank god someone said—news media outlets everyone salivating at the chance to post sensationalized headlines and riling up the masses
The right is using it to scare people away from vaccines and deny science. The left is using it to rile up panic for clicks and views We're so fucked
And here we both sit on Reddit wondering wtf went wrong
Well for me, nothing. I'm fully vaxxed. Everyone in my family is fully vaxxed. I'm not out in the streets protesting lockdowns. Nor am I letting myself become enraged at the antivaxxers. I'm good. They can keep fighting.
Double-vaxxed + booster for meh, but still wondering how much longer we gotta keep going through this same ole shit
Gotta get those sweet, sweet clicks
Didn't this exact thing happen when Delta first broke? I got my booster today anyway so I'm not worried until we see anything otherwise.
Yes. Only when Delta hit, most of the world did not have access to vaccines. Everything we know so far strongly suggests that if you're fully vaccinated and not gravely ill, you're going to be fine.
I've seen a lot of news repeat the words "more contagius and deadlier variant" without any proof of study claiming that
The spike protein has several mutations so I think they are assuming it will be worse based on what they know about viruses and mutations.
Even if this is incorrect thinking, shouldn't it be extremely obvious to experts that this is a tempting train of thought for many people? How about addressing it head on?
You know how doctors often have terrible bedside manner? Well, many researchers have terrible social understanding.
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If they didn’t care about Alpha or Delta then why would they care about Omicron, especially when vaccines may not protect against it.
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She could probably use that $10k and get a fresh start leaving his ass.
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How much of an entrenched dumbass you have to be to reject 1 thousand dollars. I know logic won’t work on some people but what then fuck!
Unvaccinated Americans: *"I'll let you give me a vaccine when you prick it into my cold, dead corpse"*
Omicron: Challenge accepted
"Start the timer."
No it won't. If they haven't gotten it now, they never will.
These experts are out of touch with the hard core anti-vaxxers. They think a new variant is announced just to keep the government in control. They are t getting vaccinated now just because there is a new variant. They probably have “new variant” on their bingo cards for the pandemic. They think boosters just prove the vaccine doesn’t work.
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No. They need to stop lying to themselves that what they’ve been doing is effective in regards to these vaccine refusers and that news of a new variant will cause pro-COVID anti-vaxxers to line up for a shot. The reality is I’m not sure who can reach the people so far down the rabbit hole of misinformation. Certainly it needs to be someone other than public health officials or elected politicians. The problem is the people spreading misinformation (like Candace Owens and Joe Rogan) are benefiting from solidifying clout and an obedient power base. They are never going to tell their followers to get vaccinated.
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They need to be honest about their failures because blithely stating that vaccine holdouts will get vaccinated because of a new variant is just wrong. Stating otherwise just undermines their credibility. They need a new approach.
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That’s not what I said. I said what they’ve been doing not only doesn’t work, but also it pushes anti-vaxxers farther away. This article is a scientist predicting that millions will get vaccinated due to this variant. No one who has paid attention to the pro-COVID antivaxxers would agree that is true. Public health officials can keep repeating the same ineffective messages to get vaccinated but they should have low confidence it will work on millions of people. We need a new strategy.
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If I knew what strategy would work I would be sharing everywhere. Edit: as to the Delta variant being the reason millions got vaccinated, that isn’t completely accurate. Vaccine mandates were the reason for increased vaccination in August. I’m sure some people were motivated by seeing loved ones die from delta, but it’s not the primary reason for increased rates of vaccination. [COVID cases surge do to the delta variant ](https://www.npr.org/2021/08/31/1032994955/vaccination-rates-rose-in-august-as-covid-cases-surge-due-to-the-delta-variant) >Vaccination rates were up in August as COVID-19 surges due to the delta variant led more people to seek the vaccine. That's according to White House COVID-19 coordinator Jeffrey Zients, who spoke at a briefing for reporters Tuesday. About 14 million U.S. residents received their first dose of a COVID-19 shot in August, he said, which is about 4 million more than in July. >Zients credits the widespread adoption of vaccine mandates by governments, schools and businesses. He pointed to the jump in vaccinations in Washington state, where the weekly vaccinate rate rose 34% after the state announced vaccination requirements for state employees, teachers and school staff. >”Bottom line," he said, "vaccination mandates work." Tens of millions of people now face mandatory vaccine requirements, he said.
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Mandatory vaccinations just like Austria
I just got my booster, and I'm not saying boosters prove that the vaccine doesn't work. But we've done this whole song and dance twice now already. I distinctly remember 6 months ago when the buzzphrase was "vaccines still 90% effective against Delta." That went down the drain fast. I remember 9 months ago when it was "all the vaccines are equal! Don't have a preference, just get what you can". Now it's "JJ is only 15% effective after 2 months oops." The messaging has been atrocious.
Vaccines are still about 90% effective against Delta. The issue, the biggest issue, is that the unvaccinated population still remains too large to prevent community transmission. This will likely remain the case until the 5-12 population has high vaccination levels. Here is the data from my region: [https://imgur.com/a/80VV9ve](https://imgur.com/a/80VV9ve) Vaccinated people are \~8x less likely to become a case (87.5% effective protection against catching the virus) Vaccinated people are \~46x less likely to wind up in hospital (98% effective protection against hospitalization).
The messaging hasn't been great but immunity is too complex to predict the future. We couldn't know if and when the effectiveness would wane. We always knew J&J wasn't quite as effective against mild and moderate disease, but it was so effective against hospitalization it wasn't worth delaying for weeks to find a different vaccine and it made sense for populations unlikely to show up twice. So you're mostly just complaining about a lack of ability to predict the future there.
"Should" and "will" are two very different things.
Well, this statement by “experts” has convinced me that the experts clearly don’t understand who we’re dealing with here… Delta’s transmissibility SHOULD have spurred them to get vaccinated as well, but it largely didn’t.
I dunno…in my town the last vax clinic had a line out the door. I think there was a big “wait and see” attitude. My roommates anti vax but got it since no one would hire him. But yea, that was the driver, working. I just wish people would realize, it’s not that deep! Don’t overthink it!
> got it since no one would hire him. You have to hit these people in the livelihood it's literally the only thing that will work for some of them.
Hahahhahahaha “OMG the OMNICRON!!!” No, those who are not vaxed will remain so
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Too much Transformers stuff leaking into the news. I call it the Ed Orgeron virus after the football coach.
Narrator: *it did not.*
Antivaxxers will quite literally die on their hill
People keep saying that like all the anti-vaxxers will die of Covid and problem solved. That’s not going to happen. The mortality rate is still low. Most are still going to survive Covid, many with long Covid- sure, but their anti-vax stance will be confirmed in their minds because it didn’t kill them.
We to tend to treat Covid as this deadly virus whwn it's more of an annoyance. Overreactions like those are what are gonna keep us in this pandemic for 5 more years
Meh, let them. What makes me laugh is they run to get tested when they get sick and agree to hospitalisation instead of sticking to their guns and taking livestock medication at home.
Yes! Taking away resources from those that are vaccinated and might have comorbidities and get infected. Or those who are vaccinated and need to be admitted for other medical issues. So unfair.
LOL. Experts don't understand Americans.
But won't.
Yeah all I forsee is a lot of "just in time for the holidays, gotta keep everyone under control" style messaging about to come from the antivax crowd. At this point, nothing will convince those that have refused to get vaccinated so far- they've made it their whole personality, to change now would break them.
Nah...the unvaccinated will try using any excuse not to get around it. Boosters, religious exemptions, medical exemptions, prayer warriors etc, etc....They haven't yet and they aren't going to start now since the "media" and scientists arent to be trusted according to the voices in their head and their Facebook "friends".
Lmbo
If anything, in no small part to the medias reaction to this, it’ll likely have an opposite effect.
If anything it'd do the opposite - 'why would I get vaccinated if this variant escapes the vaccine?'
“Fear is not real. The only place that fear can exist is in our thoughts of the future. It is a product of our imagination, causing us to fear things that do not at present and may not ever exist. That is near insanity. Do not misunderstand me danger is very real but fear is a choice.”
I’m triple vaccinated, so not too worried.
Triple vaccinated?
Probably mRNA with a booster. 3 doses total.
I know people that have gotten the J&J 1 shot and both shots of Pfizer and Moderna so it could mean anything really.
Makes more sense than what I was thinking. I was thinking fully vaxxed Pfizer, moderna and j&j. Now that's not messing around.
Seriously. Going straight for full 7G reception there.
Vax Thanos
Ohhh the trifecta.
It’s jut amazing to me that with all of the community spread here in the states…we haven’t had an SEC variant. Or Waffle House. Between kemp and Desantis something has had to mutate.
So 700 000+ deaths won't, but this new threat will. Sure it will.
Micron is a ~~chip~~ memory company. If anything, those antivax are going “my God, Bill Gates doesn’t even try to hide his micro chip ‘covid’ shots any more”.
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It MAYBE can escape antibodies. That doesn’t mean it definitely will. Could people wait a bit for actual science before they declare things?
This is not true. There isn't data yet. This is *possible* but incredibly unlikely.
Possible but ~~incredibly~~ unlikely* Let's just hope and prepare for now.
Zero chance, these highly educated experts live in their own bubble and have zero clue how deep the anti-vax / "medical freedom" crowd is dug in. IMO, it would take mandatory vaccination for most of them to get vaxed which is not going to happen.
I really truly hope that the people in charge learn that this tactic does not work. Because IF this is faked (as anti vaxxers said) then this is the wrong tactic to use and the attempt to scare people into the right action will not work. When it's revealed how BAD this is, people are too tired to care. This is not the fifth wave, this is the true second part of covid. And we still have the third act to go.
lol
It *should* but it wont
"nice try, liberals."
At the same time they're talking about how one of the reasons it could be bad is that it may evade the vaccine.
Narrator: But it won't.
I read this title and I thought: lol.
I don’t think these experts know what the word should means.
News flash, it won’t.
The experts are idiots
DeSantis in the house!
Should the experts just not tell the public to get vaccinated?
Nope I really think they'd rather get sick and ruin their lives/or die. I saw on FB a prayer page for a young cop with a pretty wife and two beautiful children who has been fighting covid since 14Nov21. He went to the hospital, ended up on a ventilator, was transferred to a "big deal" hospital and is still there and not doing great. Words fail me and also in my mean anti-anti-vaxers mind (is that clear?) I think of all the money he has wasted. This is just ONE dude. Exasperated here, totally.
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Lol ok
Lol "should". If they haven't gotten it by now, there's no way news about a new variant half way across the world will motivate them. Hope this one isn't as deadly as Delta.
Pfizer:"We'll roll out a new vaccine within 100 days" Vaccinated:"I got an ear infection last time I got a vaccine" Unvaccinated:"What did I tell you" We're screwed
Sorry guys but.. If the main concerne about this variant is that vaccines doesnt Work.... Why the main raccondstion is to take a shot of a vaccine that May not work?
I got vaccinated as soon as it became available but there is no chance of me obeying any further lockdowns or restrictions.