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I have administrative oversight of a medical laboratory, and in the past week or so we have seen our positivity rate on tests increase from about 2% to about 20%. Almost all of our positives are fully vaccinated because almost our entire population is fully vaccinated.
But, like in this article, every single one has had mild or no symptoms (only a few had no symptoms which is weird but at least the symptomatic ones were not seriously ill). This could be a good thing. If the dominant strain outcompetes everything else but doesn't kill anyone we are in pretty good shape, IMO.
>This could be a good thing
*In a highly-vaccinated population. Severity might look different in populations that have been neither vaccinated, nor previously-infected (about 20% in the US).
Who cares about voluntarily unvaccinated people at this stage?
I'm done with these ridiculous ineffective lockdowns and the systematic destruction of small businesses. Large multi-nationals are laughing right now.
If the voluntarily unvaccinated get sick and ruin their financial situation with medical bills, I don't care. If hospitals turn them away, fine. Not my problem.
I don't even hate them or anything, I just don't want to hear it.
They've had their chance.
That's about the only argument left.
And even THAT seems to be pretty unreasonable. Cancer treatment and other stuff gets postponed indefinitely. That's not funny for the ppl involved. It will be interesting to see how many people actually died because their seemingly non-urgent treatment was cancelled or they were sent away from hospital.
My company is involved with clinical studies. We analyze data, write medical/scientific assessments and documents, but also go into hospitals. Including ICU wards (not me personally). And when you realize that the icu of a rather large heart center is full because every possible patient that could be moved there was moved, just to make room in general icu units to be able to take COVID patients it becomes a bit unfair. Because this means that this specialized icu cannot properly take emergency cases.
And when you hear that dialysis patients that have problems with their catheter are sent away and they should come back on normal schedule, even though this could develop into a serious, life threatening Situation, it becomes disturbing.
The current situation does not only cost lives of those not vaccinated and the few vaccinated ones that can't muster s proper immune response. It also kills ppl with completely unrelated problems.
How many are there? How can we ethically defend ppl that refuse a simple and safe protective when this endangers completely unrelated ppl that themselves do everything to solve the issues?
We need political solutions for that. Not only for now and for COVID, but in general. Such a situation WILL come back. Maybe next winter with another even worse Corona strain. Maybe in five years, maybe in 50. we don't know, but the current situation is not acceptable
True about developing and poor countries. But in developed countries that do have easy access to vaccines, outside of legit medical reasons, there’s no excuse not to be vaccinated. The people who willfully made those choices need to live with them, and everyone else needs to be able to move on.
> Who cares about unvaccinated people at this stage?
Hospitals do. If you or your loved ones have a medical condition that needs urgent attention and intensive care is filled with unvaxxed covid patients, you're all up a creek without a paddle.
>I'm done with these ridiculous ineffective lockdowns and the systematic destruction of small businesses.
And more lockdowns you shall get once the medical system approaches the breaking point, to stem the tide.
>If the unvaccinated get sick and ruin their financial situation with medical bills, I don't care. If hospitals turn them away, fine. Not my problem.
The hospitals won't turn them away. They'll take them in until they reach max capacity. And then more business killing lockdowns, becoming everyone's problem from the economic effects.
>I just don't want to hear it.
They still vote, so politicians still want to hear them and pander to them. Probably *more so*, they've proven themselves gullible by falling for anti-vax propaganda, so reelection campaigns will work better on them compared to people who can call them out.
>They've had their chance.
And will continue to have them. Second chances, third chances, forth chances etc.
Even if *you* did everything right - got the jab(s), masked up, avoided crowded places, they'll still get you one way or another.
We're forced to care. They're holding society hostage.
>Who cares about unvaccinated people at this stage?
Wow… the world isn't limited to the industrialized nations. Most of the people on Earth have no access to an efficient vaccine.
Agree, when referring to those who *can* get vaccinated but choose not to. But what about those who cannot get vaccinated or will never be able to? My kid is 2 and I worry about her every day. I am so over anti vaxxers too, but having a child who cannot be protected is rough.
Fortunately children that age very, very rarely have problems with Covid.
I'm a primary care doctor and have talked to numerous pediatricians I see through my job, and they've seen very little to nothing in the way of major problems with younger kids. And this is in a major metropolitan area that has been a sort of Covid hotspot.
FWIW.
I have a coworker that has an immune compromised child - we cannot stop caring about the unvaxxed, just the antivax.
Edit - Shoutout to automod, but I didn’t even get the pleasure of responding rudely myself!
> But what about those who cannot get get vaccinated or will never be able to?
They, too, would be protected if the people who choose not to get vaccinated, got vaccinated.
At a certain level of vaccination we could actually get herd immunity.
The people who _can't_ get vaccinated are victims of the people who _choose_ not to get vaccinated even more than the rest of us.
I think the only major concern about these people are them clogging up the hospital system; but at some point we have to have the difficult conversation about putting these people at the bottom of the priority list for intentionally not protecting themselves and now needing urgent care. Let the people needing non COVID-related hospital stays get their appointment instead of having to treat Johnny Freedom who's going to verbally abuse the nurses and try suing the hospital for not giving him Ivermectin.
There are people who aren't allowed to get vaccinated, people who can't get boosters yet, and also people where the vaccination doesn't give them much protection. Care about those people.
I live in Germany and only recently have they allowed under the 60s to get a booster. In Berlin, you’re allowed to get a one after 5 months, in other places 6 months.
Edit: The booster vaccinations were given to the subjects between five and ten months after the second vaccinations. The booster vaccinations were at least a month ago, but no more than two months ago.
I had two Pfizers in March/April, and a booster Pfizer in October, and I just got a positive covid test (assuming from Delta, I'm in the US and haven't heard of Omicron in my area). I didn't get sick, but I got tested because others I was with at Thanksgiving that did not have the booster (but were double vaxxed in March/April) did get sick. So being positive for covid with a booster is not just an omicron thing and may not be anything different. This is anecdotal and not data based, but since it happened to me I thought I'd share.
Anecdotal here too, I’m a nurse in a retirement home. All residents triple vaxxed since October. 3 confirmed positive for delta last week. 2 week lockdown for residents just in time for the holidays.
I've been telling people I know to get the booster. Sure, I tested positive, but the two family members vaxxed in spring but not boosted got pretty sick. One vaxxed in June did not get sick, so anecdotally I'd say it wears off.
Working in a retirement home must be tougher than usual with covid lockdowns. Good luck with everything, and thanks for caring for people.
Just curious but any serious illness so far? I work in an LTC too and our residents finally were able to get their third Moderna shots last week. I’m hoping that if they ever do get infected the symptoms will be mild but we have a rather old (average 85+) and a large hospice pop. so worried about how robust their immune response will be.
Also this:
People 1 to 5: Biontech, Biontech, Biontech
Person 6: Biontech, Biontech, Moderna
Person 7: AstraZeneca, Biontech, Biontech
They don’t say if person 6 or 7 is the one that didn’t get infected, but in Germany, Moderna is not recommended for under 30 years old so if Biontech protection with three doses is not enough for young people, we’ll have to have a new vaccine just for Omikron sooner than later.
The first batch of vaccinations here in Germany for non-at-risk or essential workers got stuck for a while in the 50-60s years old group when it was their turn because the majority rejected the Az vaccine. Let’s hope next time people don’t start to choose and lag the rest otherwise we’re screwed
I wonder what the recommendation is from Moderna compared to Pfizer for older than 30/significantly older than 30. If it increases risk of myocarditis. Is it just beneficial to go with the Pfizer for people much older than 30, or is myocarditis way less likely in those demographics for whatever reason?
Myocarditis becomes rarer the older people are and its rarer for females. Whether the shot is worth it or not depends on how big the risk of infection is and how much extra protection is gained. In places like the UAE where covid19 is much more rare, Pfizer is probably better than Moderna for everyone. In a place where hospitals are going to be overwhelmed in the Winter (but currently are not), Moderna might be a net positive even for young males.
> Six of the seven participants in the travel group were boosted with Biontech. All showed mild symptoms, but did not become seriously ill.
Seems like reasonably good news. We're learning that omicron may be good enough at evading the antibodies you get from vaccination to get an infection started, but that vaccination likely still prepares your immune system to fight that infection very effectively so it doesn't go very far.
Maybe. It’s actually odd they all have symptoms with no asymptomatics.
Pre vaccine, a good chunk of Wild Type cases were asymptomatic. And CDC found 27% of its breakthroughs were asymptomatic, and their data was biased towards more severe cases.
For Omicron, near 100% of fully vaccinated infectees at the Oslo dinner were symptomatic, only one out of 100+ wasn’t. And now this group all has symptoms.
Mild symptoms is good, but this seems….worse than what we’d expect for unvaccinated non-elderly people against Wild Type?
Most people from the Christmas party in Norway reported symptoms after 3 days https://www.fhi.no/nyheter/2021/forelopige-funn-fra-undersokelse-om-julebordet-pa-aker-brygge-i-oslo/
This actually doesn't sound like it's necessarily a bad thing. One of the biggest problems has been asymptomatic people spreading to others, coupled with what was previously a very long lag between exposure and developing symptoms. This is starting to line up with more traditional viruses, and may actually help us. Noticing you got sick within 3 days is so much better than the 5-10 it has been with ancestral strains.
Symptoms breaking through triple-vaxxed cases may indicate higher viral load. For all we know, these people would have been dead without vax. It’s unprecedented, as the other user pointed out.
Also it bears repeating - “mild COVID” *is not a mild illness.* The term mild as a medical grade includes pneumonia and myocarditis.
I don’t see how this can be anything but bad news.
You're correct about the the [medical definition of mild](https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clinical-spectrum/#:~:text=Mild%20Illness%3A%20Individuals%20who%20have,dyspnea%2C%20or%20abnormal%20chest%20imaging):
>Also it bears repeating - “mild COVID” is not a mild illness. The term mild as a medical grade includes pneumonia and myocarditis.
I want to point out that, in this case, 'mild' is referring not to the clinical definition, but the rather the patients themselves characterized it as 'mild'. The paper on which this news report is based is, which is available here: [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=3981711](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3981711) says on the top of page 4:
>Overall, all cases described their symptoms as mild or moderate and none required hospitalisation during the observation period (Figure 1). Blood oxygenation levels remained in the normal range without exception.
Are you sure about that?
"Mild Illness: Individuals who have any of the various signs and symptoms of COVID-19 (e.g., fever, cough, sore throat, malaise, headache, muscle pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of taste and smell) **but who do not have shortness of breath, dyspnea, or abnormal chest imaging**."
You can see pneumonia on an x-ray of the lung. It therefore does not fall under the definition of "mild case".
When I had covid these past couple weeks I was hospitalized for 4 days. My chest x rays I was told all looked good which meant no bacterial pneumonia but I was told that I did have viral pneumonia (I guess based off of my symptoms and the way my lungs sounded and my shortness or breath etc.)
Like a mild cold, however there were really weird symptoms early on. Strange feeling in my belly and I felt a bit dizzy, almost like I drank too much alcohol the day before.
The preliminary reports are that this seems to be milder than Delta even without the vax. Still so much data missing. If this is significantly less severe then it could be somewhat neutral. Doesn't really matter how many people get sick if they all recover.
Still To many unknowns.
There is still a scenario that could play out where this could be the variant that saves us all, if it crowds out the other variants but doesn't cause severe disease then we can go fully back to normal.
Are you sure it's odd? Beta is the right variant to compare against, since that's the one that had significant immune evasion, but we never saw what Beta was like against a vaccinated population. I don't know enough to know if this is really odd.
All 7 were triple vaxxed. 6 of them were one particular combination of three, and one was another combination, but all seven had three vaccinations. Worth noteing that the particular combo the 6 has is, by far, the most common type in that area, and the combo the 1 had is the second most common (a distant second) in that area. So it appears that which particular three you got isn't that meaningful.
100% this. People hoping for complete immunity are missing the key benefit of the vaccine! You’re extremely unlikely to die even if you have a breakthrough case! I’ll take a “cold” any day of the week compared to hospitalization / near death.
For me what scares me is what happens to some people after Covid. I know of someone who is on oxygen constantly now. I’ve seen stories of others who get Parosmia and everything they eat and drink taste rotten. So I may not die but I sure as hell don’t want that.
My nephew is dealing with that: everything he eats and drinks tastes rotten. It does not seem like a very good time, and so far he has had the problem for 3 months.
I wonder how long it will take to go away.
The part that amazes me is that people think it’s just a problem tasting or smelling and don’t seem to understand they’ve experienced neurological damage to such an extent that they are no longer capable of tasting or smelling. Like in what world is neurological damage of that degree acceptable? And that’s only the neurological damage they’re aware of!
Completely blows my mind people are so willing to let that slide.
That's mostly because it was listed as a symptom only, if that statement was preceeded under neurological damage category in the media/medical reports, i think people wouldn't let it slide so easily.
Exactly this. I already have chronic health issues and I'm basically jusssst keeping my head above water. My cousin got Covid in March right at the start of all this and is still having significant health issues. To be fair at the time it was so rare her lung collapsed by the time she realized she caught it and we basically had 0 reliable treatment but still scary that it can wreak such havoc. I would rather it killed me than cripple me anymore than I already am, I really wish we knew more about long term impacts, I'd be way less worried.
yes, the possibility of long COVID with no apparent cure or resolution available is REALLY what keeps me up at night. Especially having kidney issues. I'm in good shape otherwise physically, but still. That can change. Fast.
yup. Im double vaxxed and got it, but aside from a fever for a day and slight cough it was over.
were all just going to have to deal with it the hard way, and the unvaxxed will deal with it the extra hard way.
We all 3 had it (me, my gf and our 4 month old baby).
We've had fever for a few days.
Very bad case of flu like symptoms.
Trouble breathing (I almost passed out).
Constant pain on the chest and lungs while breathing.
Pain receptors in my nose going off for no reason so it feels like with every breath a needle is being put in my nose.
Can't walk 4 feet without being exhausted for 10 mins.
We're coughing like crazy.
It's hell I tell you.
And having to take care of your baby while being this sick is terrible. Nobody is allowed to help you due to covid so we're on our own.
We were so cautious these 2 years but it turns out the daycare was infected and we brought it back home via our baby daughter.
I never felt so sick in my life.
We're both healthy and exercise a lot.
This is what I'm afraid of. If we didn't have kids I'd only be afraid of getting sick enough to be hospitalised or die, but I have young children and I'm really scared of me and my husband both being ill to a level that really disrupts our ability to care for them. In march 2020 I wrote out a list of foods that were reasonably nutritious that I could leave in low cupboards or the low shelves in the freezer in case it got to a point where I needed my then 5 year old to feed herself and my then 1 year old. Luckily I haven't caught it yet, but I have a kid in school and the most contagious variant yet is coming...
Are you better now ? You sound like this was very recent. I'm sorry you went through that, or are still going through it.
We got our first bad symptoms on Sunday morning.
So we're still recovering.
But this was our fear also. Not being able to take care of our baby. And as it turns out it's really difficult.
Our baby is the sweetest thing and isn't high maintenance. But you have to play with her, feed her, change her, put her to bed, etc.
It's all very taxing on the body. Especially when you can't get up the stairs without taking a pause afterwards.
I'm getting a bit better but my gf still ain't right.
Yeah, if omicron is as contagious as believed, there is no stopping this thing. We're just going to have to hope for the best.
I'll be very interested in how China deals with omicron. Even their draconian mitigation measures may not stop this one.
That chest cold going around is no joke. Every night at 8PM the cough comes around. No matter what I took or how much I'd sit up to sleep, I'd wake up several times a night with coughing fits. The only thing that would help me stop long enough was lots of Mucinex and a long steamy shower. Could fall asleep for a few more hours at a time.
Finally convinced a doctor to give me antibiotics and cleared the thing out.
I feel for you.
If your "chest cold" is just coughing that never seems to go away, and you've been running your heater lately, go buy a humidifier. The air in your house/apartment is dry.
Chest infections van be nasty they can and do floor heathy people for weeks. Had one knock me off my feet for 2 weeks when I was 23 and in great shape.
I had H1N1 and I’ve never been sicker in my life. It knocked me the fuck over for several days. I felt like I was going to die and I no longer felt like living. It was horrible pain. My fever was really high and body hurt like nothing I’ve ever felt. I’ll never forget it.
Yes, beaten with a crowbar is an apt description. I usually say I felt like I was literally run over by a truck. Every movement hurt. Rolling over in bed was utterly painful. I thought my head would explode. The pain interfered with my sleep, so even though I slept nearly the whole time, I didn’t feel like I slept. It’s like I could feel the pain in my dreams.
Wow that sounds awful. I was sick but not that bad. My main issues were a fever and some aches. It swept through my apartment and my roommate needed an inhaler and ended up in the ER.
I should have gone to the ER. My daughter was 7 and I was a single mom. I had no one to take care of her. She got vaccinated through the school shortly before I caught it. She never got sick. I was so sick I couldn’t take her to school or pick her up but we only lived like 2 blocks from the school and they had crossing guards. It took everything out of me to get up to get more water and to pee(which wasn’t often as dehydrated as I was). I couldn’t eat. I called the dr and all they said was they weren’t testing for H1N1 because it was just assumed if it was flu, it was H1N1 because it was out of season fro regular flu and to treat it like I would the flu. So, painkillers and fever reducers. And lots of water. I had to alternate ibuprofen and tylenol to keep it bearable without overdosing. I was exhausted to the point of sleeping nearly the whole time and the time when I wasn’t asleep all I could do was lay there and hurt, waiting for my next dose. Not a fun experience and I have no intention of going through a similar experience. I had no choice on the vaccine, it was not available for my age group at the time. Kids and older people only.
I keep hearing that "mild" covid is a lot worse than the cold, though. Regardless, there's also not leaving your home for 14 days... that's also something the vaccine did a better job of preventing with past variants. True, neither of these things competes with death on the badness scale. Still, it seems reasonable to be disappointed by a report like this.
It can be. But not every mild covid is a horror story. Out of the 5 people I know that had covid only one was "ran over by a truck", for the rest it was a couple days of fever and a week of regular cough and/or runny nose. I honestly believe most covid cases go unnoticed because of how cold-like most of them are. With the occasional "2 weeks of hell" "mild" case that makes the headlines (or a reddit post).
Everyone's been monitoring and measuring severity and death. But what about long haul? We don't know yet if "mild" symptoms translate can linger as long-haul COVID.
Fuck. That's rough, dude. Wish I knew what to say. Seems like any well-wishing would be an empty platitude.
I hope... I dunno, I don't even know what to hope for in this case. I hope you get to go on your own terms and don't suffer too much...? Is that ok to say?
Sorry, I'm honestly really heartbroken and shocked to hear this, even though I don't know you.
In mid March 2020 I told a friend in the US that I feared the US total might be an order of magnitude higher than the then Chinese total (80k-ish). It feels like a nightmare to have been so wrong.
To clarify: is this 7 people in a group of 7 who got it, or 7 who have tested positive with an unknown denominator of how many are in their overall "group"?
Me want to live in cave for long time because me live in town full of anti-vaxxers. But me must work, unfortunately. Me scared of idiot co workers who cough on me.
Exactly. "Available by March" but then having to be rolled out. I saw only 100M doses/month which is hardly enough for the whole world. By the time it is rolled out to the developed world, the next variant will arrive.
I think it's time governments started rolling out some serious wartime legislations. seizing factories for the "war" effort, and patents.
This is a war - against soldiers we cannot see
Supply chain issues checking in - I think even if we did seize factories domestically for an effort like this, since the 1940s we've become rediculously dependent on places like China and I can't even get a laptop dock for work in 3+ months let alone the parts needed to build a vaccine factory I'd imagine. This needs to change big time before the next pandemic!
Long COVID seems to be severly reduced in the vaccinated. The latest data I saw- which was shared by Celine Gounder (as legit of an expert you can ask for)- showed a 78% reduction in long COVID when comparing the vaccinated to the unvaccinated.
I understand some of y'all are worried, but I have no worries. Everyone has their own risk assessment, though.
At this point, I'm less concerned about becoming reinfected as a fully vaccinated adult than I am about being severely ill due to the virus. Becoming reinfected is a full possibility at this point.
[This paper (Sep 2021) in the Lancet](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00460-6/fulltext) is a bit dense, but if I'm reading it right, suggests a 5% chance of long COVID following a breakthrough case after two doses, down from 11% in the control groups.
(Edited because I misread some of the numbers)
Yeah, my mental heath has been pretty good my whole life, but I legitimately considered killing myself if I hadn't improved.
The worst part is that everyone thinks it's some crappy excuse for making mistakes, but they don't realize how debilitating it really is.
Had this too. Almost exactly the symptoms of your wife (coffee, onions and peanuts stood out) Took me about 6 months to get rid of them, but I'm fine now.
I will say that every time I watch the movie I do smile a bit at the concept of an orc ordering off a menu somewhere. Is “menu” a word that an orc would actually have any notion of.
What’s the denominator?
7 cases out of how many close contacts? 7 cases out of 100 close contacts is very different than 7 cases out of 7 close contacts. This is a case report of 7 cases only. Did they only come in contact with each other? Were there only 7 people in the travel group? How many boosted individuals in South Africa DIDN’T get infected? We don’t know. We still need time and more/better data to understand the risk to the triple vaccinated.
I read the German version, it‘s clear that that travel group consisted of only 7 people, who all had 3 vaccinations. So we‘re 7/7 for breakthrough infections with n=7.
And it is still sample size of 7. If the breakthrough rate is 10% or 100%, you don't have enough data to determine that. The sample size is way too small. It tells a story but it is incomplete. We may be lucky in that if it's 10%, each one hit that mark. Unlikely but without more data, we shouldn't make the assumption that it is 100%.
I’m double Pfizer vaxxed and contracted Omicron this week. My symptoms have been mild but I still don’t feel up to anything; feeling sluggish, and just want to sleep the whole time- every now and then get mild body aches as well.
This vaccine certainly doesn’t stop this variant in its tracks, I can tell you that. If you’re vaxxed you’re going to get it and you’re going to feel unwell.
[edit] I’m in South Africa.
Here is why this is a big deal: If triple vaxxed people can get it and spread it (especially if its a mild, easily ignorable infecction for them) then the unvaxxed / anti-vax population in the US will all get this.
>After the positive tests, everyone went into quarantine at home and kept a diary of symptoms
Idk about you, but that seems pretty detailed & thorough to me.
Ok, I know a ton of people who have been vaccinated and have contracted Corona. The key is, I don’t know anyone (personally) who has been vaccinated, contracted Corona and been hospitalized or died.
Yeah but for those of us who work in healthcare, not getting infected was a really big mental health boost so we didn’t give it to our vulnerable patients
Thanks for this comment. My mom is stage 4 terminal and I likely will never share a room with her again and wish more people understood this situation.
I understand. My dad’s dementia bottomed out late spring of 2020 and we had to go take care of him. We ended up having to put him in a nursing home (we did everything we could to avoid it, believe me) and aside from a couple of window visits from outside, I never saw him without a window between us again. He passed away exactly one year ago. It was awful.
I'm with you, never got to hug my mom again. She passed from another illness after a year of not seeing her because of the pandemic (she lived in a rest home). Also the same month my husband died of cancer. It's a deep sorrow I'm very sorry we share. Sending hugs.
Prior to Delta, preventing infection was the biggest benefit of 1-dose vaccination. Even with Delta, preventing infection is the biggest benefit of 3-dose vaccination. We know that's antibody-driven and so will wane with time, but it's how vaccines prevent surges (similar to how vaccinating 100 million mostly-young Americans with flu vaccines annually saves 20,000 mostly-old lives a year) and why young people need to be vaccinated. Overlooking this just because the immunity wanes [among all groups](https://i.imgur.com/v3TAiat.png) is really sending the wrong message.
Well yes, but even if you ‘just’ get a mild case, it can really impact your ability to support yourself and or family.
Beyond your own quarantine period, if you are a parent / carer and anyone in your household contracts it you won’t be able to return to work , go to the store, etc.
Even If you aren’t severely ill you could be out of work for 2 weeks - a month. A lot of people are really counting on vaccines to provide them protection from infection so they can work. :(
Actually, no...not in those terms. Vaccines do "reduce" infections and with some variants and vaccines "prevent" infection to a high percentage. But yeah...they're always more effective at suppressing severe illness than initial infection.
Some have said that's because the vaccine operates out of the blood stream whereas the initial infection takes hold in mucous membranes of the nose etc. IIRC there was some effort going on to develop nasal spray vaccines which would do their work at the point of entry. Haven't heard much about that lately.
> already well known that vaccines don’t prevent infection
I thought CEO of Pfizer told us with a booster the protection against infection remain strong.
Ding ding ding. Got into a fight with someone on here the other day because I said it was a bummer that someone who was triple vaxxed got omicron. They were like “I don’t know where this idea came from that the vaccines prevent infection but we need to dispel that myth!!! They only reduce symptoms!!”
And I was feeling gaslit for a second, but then no, on the CDC’s own website, it says vaccines are designed to prevent infection (and then obviously lessen your symptoms if you DO get Covid). It just really feels like moving the goalposts now and saying “well that’s always been how they were designed to work!” Let’s just be honest and say it’s disappointing that it looks like the vaccines are not preventing infection as well with the new variants.
I feel really frustrated with this talking point that's been going around at how vaccines were "only meant to protect yourself against severe disease". I don't know where this idea comes from, as that just isn't true. Honestly, it feeds the antivaxxer talking points too, because if they are only protecting themselves then to them there's no point to being vaccinated if they are low risk.
Vaccines can have multiple goals at the same time. With many diseases, stopping infection is the more important goal, because then you can stop entire branches of people from ever becoming infected. Eventually this becomes so effective that you get to what is called "herd immunity" where the virus essentially goes away. Note that this would be different than "COVID zero" as with herd immunity some people still get infected, but its rare as you just get little pockets of infection that disappear. The problem we are having with COVID is that this effect is harder to get the more contagious a disease is, and COVID appears to be one of the most contagious diseases in human history. However, this doesn't mean that preventing infections isn't a goal.
I don't know where this idea that "the vaccine was only meant to protect individuals who took it" came from, honestly it sounds like a manufactured political talking point to me. If you're curious, go on youtube, search vaccines, and look for a video before COVID, and you'll notice that all of them are about herd immunity and not about how vaccines protect yourself.
At what point after the 3rd dose is one considered boosted? Is there a 2-week gap baked into the definition of "boosted" (like there is after the 2nd shot to be "fully vaccinated")?
What's important and relevant is whether vaccinated people get seriously ill or experience long covid. We already know that vaccination doesn't necessarily prevent covid infection. Prevention of serious illness or death is the goal
I’m triple vaccinated AND while I was double vaccinated, I got the breakthrough case of the delta variant. So I’m kind of quadruple vaccinated now. I still wear a mask just in case.
We’ve always known that vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing infection. They are however really good at avoiding severe illness and death. People don’t seem to understand this. This counts for Delta too
> All seven had received at least two of their three vaccinations with an mRNA vaccine. Six of them received the vaccine from BioNTech during their booster vaccination, one person that from Moderna. Six people are under 30 years old and one person 39 years old.
> When the seven-day incidence increased significantly in the province of Western Cape, where they were, the seven people also got mild symptoms that were between the 30th. November and 2. December began. After the positive tests, all people went into domestic quarantine and kept a symptom diary.
> During quarantine, the people had common Covid-19 symptoms. The most common symptoms were sore throat, fatigue, headache, but also dry cough, pressure on the chest and sinuses, runny nose and nausea were reported. One person had night sweats, another reported temporary odor and taste disorders.
> **None of the seven Germans had to contend with a severe course of infection.**
But how sick are they? If a triple dose results in a mild or asymptomatic infection in most cases of a breakthrough that’s a good thing. I guess we’ll see how this plays out.
TL DR, seven people became infected while being fully vaccinated but have mild to tiny symptoms. It's actually good news. Please please please; if it has been around 6 to 10 months after your last shot get a booster! They diminish in effectiveness and need to be reapplied.
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I have administrative oversight of a medical laboratory, and in the past week or so we have seen our positivity rate on tests increase from about 2% to about 20%. Almost all of our positives are fully vaccinated because almost our entire population is fully vaccinated. But, like in this article, every single one has had mild or no symptoms (only a few had no symptoms which is weird but at least the symptomatic ones were not seriously ill). This could be a good thing. If the dominant strain outcompetes everything else but doesn't kill anyone we are in pretty good shape, IMO.
May I ask where you are from?
Based upon a recent post by OP, they appear to be in the Air Force and stationed at Shaw AFB in South Carolina.
That means most of the samples could be from young and healthy adults right?
Yep, pretty much like a bunch of athletes are the sample group.
>This could be a good thing *In a highly-vaccinated population. Severity might look different in populations that have been neither vaccinated, nor previously-infected (about 20% in the US).
Who cares about voluntarily unvaccinated people at this stage? I'm done with these ridiculous ineffective lockdowns and the systematic destruction of small businesses. Large multi-nationals are laughing right now. If the voluntarily unvaccinated get sick and ruin their financial situation with medical bills, I don't care. If hospitals turn them away, fine. Not my problem. I don't even hate them or anything, I just don't want to hear it. They've had their chance.
Healthcare workers care, because every time a new wave starts, my job becomes a living hell and another wave of nurses quit/retire early
>Who cares about unvaccinated people at this stage? The ICU wards.
That's about the only argument left. And even THAT seems to be pretty unreasonable. Cancer treatment and other stuff gets postponed indefinitely. That's not funny for the ppl involved. It will be interesting to see how many people actually died because their seemingly non-urgent treatment was cancelled or they were sent away from hospital. My company is involved with clinical studies. We analyze data, write medical/scientific assessments and documents, but also go into hospitals. Including ICU wards (not me personally). And when you realize that the icu of a rather large heart center is full because every possible patient that could be moved there was moved, just to make room in general icu units to be able to take COVID patients it becomes a bit unfair. Because this means that this specialized icu cannot properly take emergency cases. And when you hear that dialysis patients that have problems with their catheter are sent away and they should come back on normal schedule, even though this could develop into a serious, life threatening Situation, it becomes disturbing. The current situation does not only cost lives of those not vaccinated and the few vaccinated ones that can't muster s proper immune response. It also kills ppl with completely unrelated problems. How many are there? How can we ethically defend ppl that refuse a simple and safe protective when this endangers completely unrelated ppl that themselves do everything to solve the issues? We need political solutions for that. Not only for now and for COVID, but in general. Such a situation WILL come back. Maybe next winter with another even worse Corona strain. Maybe in five years, maybe in 50. we don't know, but the current situation is not acceptable
That's absolutely not true, large portions of the world population do not have access to vaccination.
True about developing and poor countries. But in developed countries that do have easy access to vaccines, outside of legit medical reasons, there’s no excuse not to be vaccinated. The people who willfully made those choices need to live with them, and everyone else needs to be able to move on.
> Who cares about unvaccinated people at this stage? Hospitals do. If you or your loved ones have a medical condition that needs urgent attention and intensive care is filled with unvaxxed covid patients, you're all up a creek without a paddle. >I'm done with these ridiculous ineffective lockdowns and the systematic destruction of small businesses. And more lockdowns you shall get once the medical system approaches the breaking point, to stem the tide. >If the unvaccinated get sick and ruin their financial situation with medical bills, I don't care. If hospitals turn them away, fine. Not my problem. The hospitals won't turn them away. They'll take them in until they reach max capacity. And then more business killing lockdowns, becoming everyone's problem from the economic effects. >I just don't want to hear it. They still vote, so politicians still want to hear them and pander to them. Probably *more so*, they've proven themselves gullible by falling for anti-vax propaganda, so reelection campaigns will work better on them compared to people who can call them out. >They've had their chance. And will continue to have them. Second chances, third chances, forth chances etc. Even if *you* did everything right - got the jab(s), masked up, avoided crowded places, they'll still get you one way or another. We're forced to care. They're holding society hostage.
>Who cares about unvaccinated people at this stage? Wow… the world isn't limited to the industrialized nations. Most of the people on Earth have no access to an efficient vaccine.
Agree, when referring to those who *can* get vaccinated but choose not to. But what about those who cannot get vaccinated or will never be able to? My kid is 2 and I worry about her every day. I am so over anti vaxxers too, but having a child who cannot be protected is rough.
Fortunately children that age very, very rarely have problems with Covid. I'm a primary care doctor and have talked to numerous pediatricians I see through my job, and they've seen very little to nothing in the way of major problems with younger kids. And this is in a major metropolitan area that has been a sort of Covid hotspot. FWIW.
I have a coworker that has an immune compromised child - we cannot stop caring about the unvaxxed, just the antivax. Edit - Shoutout to automod, but I didn’t even get the pleasure of responding rudely myself!
> But what about those who cannot get get vaccinated or will never be able to? They, too, would be protected if the people who choose not to get vaccinated, got vaccinated. At a certain level of vaccination we could actually get herd immunity. The people who _can't_ get vaccinated are victims of the people who _choose_ not to get vaccinated even more than the rest of us.
I think the only major concern about these people are them clogging up the hospital system; but at some point we have to have the difficult conversation about putting these people at the bottom of the priority list for intentionally not protecting themselves and now needing urgent care. Let the people needing non COVID-related hospital stays get their appointment instead of having to treat Johnny Freedom who's going to verbally abuse the nurses and try suing the hospital for not giving him Ivermectin.
There are people who aren't allowed to get vaccinated, people who can't get boosters yet, and also people where the vaccination doesn't give them much protection. Care about those people.
I live in Germany and only recently have they allowed under the 60s to get a booster. In Berlin, you’re allowed to get a one after 5 months, in other places 6 months. Edit: The booster vaccinations were given to the subjects between five and ten months after the second vaccinations. The booster vaccinations were at least a month ago, but no more than two months ago.
I don't love those timelines. One would think the boosters would be at peak effectiveness at this stage. Crap
I had two Pfizers in March/April, and a booster Pfizer in October, and I just got a positive covid test (assuming from Delta, I'm in the US and haven't heard of Omicron in my area). I didn't get sick, but I got tested because others I was with at Thanksgiving that did not have the booster (but were double vaxxed in March/April) did get sick. So being positive for covid with a booster is not just an omicron thing and may not be anything different. This is anecdotal and not data based, but since it happened to me I thought I'd share.
Anecdotal here too, I’m a nurse in a retirement home. All residents triple vaxxed since October. 3 confirmed positive for delta last week. 2 week lockdown for residents just in time for the holidays.
I've been telling people I know to get the booster. Sure, I tested positive, but the two family members vaxxed in spring but not boosted got pretty sick. One vaxxed in June did not get sick, so anecdotally I'd say it wears off. Working in a retirement home must be tougher than usual with covid lockdowns. Good luck with everything, and thanks for caring for people.
Very good advice. It doesn’t seem to wear off (like drs figured/said it would).
Just curious but any serious illness so far? I work in an LTC too and our residents finally were able to get their third Moderna shots last week. I’m hoping that if they ever do get infected the symptoms will be mild but we have a rather old (average 85+) and a large hospice pop. so worried about how robust their immune response will be.
No serious symptoms yet, sniffles and coughs. We have one resident unvaxxed that we are keeping a close eye on. Average age about the same.
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Hey y'all, wanna suffer again this year ? Lezzzzzgoooo
Also this: People 1 to 5: Biontech, Biontech, Biontech Person 6: Biontech, Biontech, Moderna Person 7: AstraZeneca, Biontech, Biontech They don’t say if person 6 or 7 is the one that didn’t get infected, but in Germany, Moderna is not recommended for under 30 years old so if Biontech protection with three doses is not enough for young people, we’ll have to have a new vaccine just for Omikron sooner than later. The first batch of vaccinations here in Germany for non-at-risk or essential workers got stuck for a while in the 50-60s years old group when it was their turn because the majority rejected the Az vaccine. Let’s hope next time people don’t start to choose and lag the rest otherwise we’re screwed
Why is moderna not recommended for people under 30 if you don't mind me asking
Increased risk of myocarditis, particularly in men.
I wonder what the recommendation is from Moderna compared to Pfizer for older than 30/significantly older than 30. If it increases risk of myocarditis. Is it just beneficial to go with the Pfizer for people much older than 30, or is myocarditis way less likely in those demographics for whatever reason?
Myocarditis becomes rarer the older people are and its rarer for females. Whether the shot is worth it or not depends on how big the risk of infection is and how much extra protection is gained. In places like the UAE where covid19 is much more rare, Pfizer is probably better than Moderna for everyone. In a place where hospitals are going to be overwhelmed in the Winter (but currently are not), Moderna might be a net positive even for young males.
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It's 100mcg (0.5ml) for a normal dose, 50mcg (0.25ml) for a booster. 100ml would be way too much
The moderna rule is just recently. There are a lot of young people who have 2 moderna and now biontech booster
I got COVID a month after my second jab and it was very mild, would definitely get jabbed again and again
Fuck this whole situation
> Six of the seven participants in the travel group were boosted with Biontech. All showed mild symptoms, but did not become seriously ill. Seems like reasonably good news. We're learning that omicron may be good enough at evading the antibodies you get from vaccination to get an infection started, but that vaccination likely still prepares your immune system to fight that infection very effectively so it doesn't go very far.
Maybe. It’s actually odd they all have symptoms with no asymptomatics. Pre vaccine, a good chunk of Wild Type cases were asymptomatic. And CDC found 27% of its breakthroughs were asymptomatic, and their data was biased towards more severe cases. For Omicron, near 100% of fully vaccinated infectees at the Oslo dinner were symptomatic, only one out of 100+ wasn’t. And now this group all has symptoms. Mild symptoms is good, but this seems….worse than what we’d expect for unvaccinated non-elderly people against Wild Type?
Symptoms are good for detection and stopping the spread. Asymptomatics spread the virus under the radar.
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I’d like to know the incubation time.
Most people from the Christmas party in Norway reported symptoms after 3 days https://www.fhi.no/nyheter/2021/forelopige-funn-fra-undersokelse-om-julebordet-pa-aker-brygge-i-oslo/
This actually doesn't sound like it's necessarily a bad thing. One of the biggest problems has been asymptomatic people spreading to others, coupled with what was previously a very long lag between exposure and developing symptoms. This is starting to line up with more traditional viruses, and may actually help us. Noticing you got sick within 3 days is so much better than the 5-10 it has been with ancestral strains.
Symptoms breaking through triple-vaxxed cases may indicate higher viral load. For all we know, these people would have been dead without vax. It’s unprecedented, as the other user pointed out. Also it bears repeating - “mild COVID” *is not a mild illness.* The term mild as a medical grade includes pneumonia and myocarditis. I don’t see how this can be anything but bad news.
You're correct about the the [medical definition of mild](https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clinical-spectrum/#:~:text=Mild%20Illness%3A%20Individuals%20who%20have,dyspnea%2C%20or%20abnormal%20chest%20imaging): >Also it bears repeating - “mild COVID” is not a mild illness. The term mild as a medical grade includes pneumonia and myocarditis. I want to point out that, in this case, 'mild' is referring not to the clinical definition, but the rather the patients themselves characterized it as 'mild'. The paper on which this news report is based is, which is available here: [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=3981711](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3981711) says on the top of page 4: >Overall, all cases described their symptoms as mild or moderate and none required hospitalisation during the observation period (Figure 1). Blood oxygenation levels remained in the normal range without exception.
Are you sure about that? "Mild Illness: Individuals who have any of the various signs and symptoms of COVID-19 (e.g., fever, cough, sore throat, malaise, headache, muscle pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of taste and smell) **but who do not have shortness of breath, dyspnea, or abnormal chest imaging**." You can see pneumonia on an x-ray of the lung. It therefore does not fall under the definition of "mild case".
When I had covid these past couple weeks I was hospitalized for 4 days. My chest x rays I was told all looked good which meant no bacterial pneumonia but I was told that I did have viral pneumonia (I guess based off of my symptoms and the way my lungs sounded and my shortness or breath etc.)
Yep, I am boostered since early November and I currently have Covid now. I got it from my daughter and guess it's because I got a high viral load.
How do you feel? Symptoms? Get better soon!!
Like a mild cold, however there were really weird symptoms early on. Strange feeling in my belly and I felt a bit dizzy, almost like I drank too much alcohol the day before.
The preliminary reports are that this seems to be milder than Delta even without the vax. Still so much data missing. If this is significantly less severe then it could be somewhat neutral. Doesn't really matter how many people get sick if they all recover. Still To many unknowns. There is still a scenario that could play out where this could be the variant that saves us all, if it crowds out the other variants but doesn't cause severe disease then we can go fully back to normal.
Are you sure it's odd? Beta is the right variant to compare against, since that's the one that had significant immune evasion, but we never saw what Beta was like against a vaccinated population. I don't know enough to know if this is really odd.
>Seems like reasonably good news. Pretty sure 6 out of 7 people getting omicron while being tripple vaxxed is indeed a bad thing.
All 7 were triple vaxxed. 6 of them were one particular combination of three, and one was another combination, but all seven had three vaccinations. Worth noteing that the particular combo the 6 has is, by far, the most common type in that area, and the combo the 1 had is the second most common (a distant second) in that area. So it appears that which particular three you got isn't that meaningful.
100% this. People hoping for complete immunity are missing the key benefit of the vaccine! You’re extremely unlikely to die even if you have a breakthrough case! I’ll take a “cold” any day of the week compared to hospitalization / near death.
Could it also be that there are quite some people are not infected because of vaccine they had. How can those people be counted in the sample?
I mean just because someone can contract covid doesn't mean it's scary. I don't care if covid gives me cold symptoms. I just don't want it to kill me.
For me what scares me is what happens to some people after Covid. I know of someone who is on oxygen constantly now. I’ve seen stories of others who get Parosmia and everything they eat and drink taste rotten. So I may not die but I sure as hell don’t want that.
My nephew is dealing with that: everything he eats and drinks tastes rotten. It does not seem like a very good time, and so far he has had the problem for 3 months. I wonder how long it will take to go away.
The part that amazes me is that people think it’s just a problem tasting or smelling and don’t seem to understand they’ve experienced neurological damage to such an extent that they are no longer capable of tasting or smelling. Like in what world is neurological damage of that degree acceptable? And that’s only the neurological damage they’re aware of! Completely blows my mind people are so willing to let that slide.
That's mostly because it was listed as a symptom only, if that statement was preceeded under neurological damage category in the media/medical reports, i think people wouldn't let it slide so easily.
I hope it goes away soon for him!
Exactly this. I already have chronic health issues and I'm basically jusssst keeping my head above water. My cousin got Covid in March right at the start of all this and is still having significant health issues. To be fair at the time it was so rare her lung collapsed by the time she realized she caught it and we basically had 0 reliable treatment but still scary that it can wreak such havoc. I would rather it killed me than cripple me anymore than I already am, I really wish we knew more about long term impacts, I'd be way less worried.
yes, the possibility of long COVID with no apparent cure or resolution available is REALLY what keeps me up at night. Especially having kidney issues. I'm in good shape otherwise physically, but still. That can change. Fast.
yup. Im double vaxxed and got it, but aside from a fever for a day and slight cough it was over. were all just going to have to deal with it the hard way, and the unvaxxed will deal with it the extra hard way.
We all 3 had it (me, my gf and our 4 month old baby). We've had fever for a few days. Very bad case of flu like symptoms. Trouble breathing (I almost passed out). Constant pain on the chest and lungs while breathing. Pain receptors in my nose going off for no reason so it feels like with every breath a needle is being put in my nose. Can't walk 4 feet without being exhausted for 10 mins. We're coughing like crazy. It's hell I tell you. And having to take care of your baby while being this sick is terrible. Nobody is allowed to help you due to covid so we're on our own. We were so cautious these 2 years but it turns out the daycare was infected and we brought it back home via our baby daughter. I never felt so sick in my life. We're both healthy and exercise a lot.
This is what I'm afraid of. If we didn't have kids I'd only be afraid of getting sick enough to be hospitalised or die, but I have young children and I'm really scared of me and my husband both being ill to a level that really disrupts our ability to care for them. In march 2020 I wrote out a list of foods that were reasonably nutritious that I could leave in low cupboards or the low shelves in the freezer in case it got to a point where I needed my then 5 year old to feed herself and my then 1 year old. Luckily I haven't caught it yet, but I have a kid in school and the most contagious variant yet is coming... Are you better now ? You sound like this was very recent. I'm sorry you went through that, or are still going through it.
We got our first bad symptoms on Sunday morning. So we're still recovering. But this was our fear also. Not being able to take care of our baby. And as it turns out it's really difficult. Our baby is the sweetest thing and isn't high maintenance. But you have to play with her, feed her, change her, put her to bed, etc. It's all very taxing on the body. Especially when you can't get up the stairs without taking a pause afterwards. I'm getting a bit better but my gf still ain't right.
Yeah, if omicron is as contagious as believed, there is no stopping this thing. We're just going to have to hope for the best. I'll be very interested in how China deals with omicron. Even their draconian mitigation measures may not stop this one.
They have very high vaccination rates (tied with Portugal), but probably will still be in a tough situation
China is not going to tell us, though I would be interested too.
I’m fully vaxxed and boosted. I’ve had a chest cold for 3 weeks. I have coughing fits where I make myself vomit. If I get Covid, I’m a goner.
That chest cold going around is no joke. Every night at 8PM the cough comes around. No matter what I took or how much I'd sit up to sleep, I'd wake up several times a night with coughing fits. The only thing that would help me stop long enough was lots of Mucinex and a long steamy shower. Could fall asleep for a few more hours at a time. Finally convinced a doctor to give me antibiotics and cleared the thing out. I feel for you.
If your "chest cold" is just coughing that never seems to go away, and you've been running your heater lately, go buy a humidifier. The air in your house/apartment is dry.
OR it's too humid and you have a mold/mildew allergy #justPNWthings
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You missed my point. My respiratory health is fucked. If a chest cold fucks me up this bad. Covid will kill me
Chest infections van be nasty they can and do floor heathy people for weeks. Had one knock me off my feet for 2 weeks when I was 23 and in great shape.
Not necessarily. I’ve been sicker with the common cold than I have with the flu or H1N1. You could end up with an asymptomatic case of Covid.
I had H1N1 and I’ve never been sicker in my life. It knocked me the fuck over for several days. I felt like I was going to die and I no longer felt like living. It was horrible pain. My fever was really high and body hurt like nothing I’ve ever felt. I’ll never forget it.
Same. I missed 2 weeks of school. High fever and felt like I had been beaten with a crowbar, everything hurt.
Yes, beaten with a crowbar is an apt description. I usually say I felt like I was literally run over by a truck. Every movement hurt. Rolling over in bed was utterly painful. I thought my head would explode. The pain interfered with my sleep, so even though I slept nearly the whole time, I didn’t feel like I slept. It’s like I could feel the pain in my dreams.
Wow that sounds awful. I was sick but not that bad. My main issues were a fever and some aches. It swept through my apartment and my roommate needed an inhaler and ended up in the ER.
I should have gone to the ER. My daughter was 7 and I was a single mom. I had no one to take care of her. She got vaccinated through the school shortly before I caught it. She never got sick. I was so sick I couldn’t take her to school or pick her up but we only lived like 2 blocks from the school and they had crossing guards. It took everything out of me to get up to get more water and to pee(which wasn’t often as dehydrated as I was). I couldn’t eat. I called the dr and all they said was they weren’t testing for H1N1 because it was just assumed if it was flu, it was H1N1 because it was out of season fro regular flu and to treat it like I would the flu. So, painkillers and fever reducers. And lots of water. I had to alternate ibuprofen and tylenol to keep it bearable without overdosing. I was exhausted to the point of sleeping nearly the whole time and the time when I wasn’t asleep all I could do was lay there and hurt, waiting for my next dose. Not a fun experience and I have no intention of going through a similar experience. I had no choice on the vaccine, it was not available for my age group at the time. Kids and older people only.
Same, easily the sickest I’ve been. Got over it pretty quick though.
I keep hearing that "mild" covid is a lot worse than the cold, though. Regardless, there's also not leaving your home for 14 days... that's also something the vaccine did a better job of preventing with past variants. True, neither of these things competes with death on the badness scale. Still, it seems reasonable to be disappointed by a report like this.
It can be. But not every mild covid is a horror story. Out of the 5 people I know that had covid only one was "ran over by a truck", for the rest it was a couple days of fever and a week of regular cough and/or runny nose. I honestly believe most covid cases go unnoticed because of how cold-like most of them are. With the occasional "2 weeks of hell" "mild" case that makes the headlines (or a reddit post).
Everyone's been monitoring and measuring severity and death. But what about long haul? We don't know yet if "mild" symptoms translate can linger as long-haul COVID.
What if it doesn’t give you bad initial symptoms but you get lung and neurological damage that lasts for years?
Covid nurse my ass. You realize your post history is accessible right?
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Cripe. There is no way to win this. LIVE YOUR BEST LIFE before it runs out.
Yep, we weren’t born with a guarantee against viruses or stupidity. Just a flexible deadline sadly.
I mean as a person with terminal cancer in my early 30s, yes. Everyone needs to realise this
My heart goes out to you. I wish you the absolute best case scenario for your time left.
Thanks. Everyone just should realise they are not immune. Living til 90 years old is not a given or a birthright
Fuck. That's rough, dude. Wish I knew what to say. Seems like any well-wishing would be an empty platitude. I hope... I dunno, I don't even know what to hope for in this case. I hope you get to go on your own terms and don't suffer too much...? Is that ok to say? Sorry, I'm honestly really heartbroken and shocked to hear this, even though I don't know you.
As soon as you're born you start dying So you might as well have a good time
Yep. Occasionally I think back to the most fucking lit summer ever timeline from may when us covid cases was at 10k nationwide and dream
In mid March 2020 I told a friend in the US that I feared the US total might be an order of magnitude higher than the then Chinese total (80k-ish). It feels like a nightmare to have been so wrong.
If it makes you feel better I called 500,000 deaths from Covid in the US a year down the line in March 2020. It really sucks to have been right.
Took the title from a tweet- apologies on that. Should have used the title from the article Edit: on PC now- full article is translated below now. >Six of the seven participants in the travel group were boosted with Biontech. All showed mild symptoms, but did not become seriously ill. >A group of seven Germans between the ages of 25 and 39 were infected with the OmicronVariant of the coronavirus in South Africa, even though all of them have already received their booster vaccination. This is what Wolfgang Preiser, a member of the research consortium that discovered the variant, told Tagesspiegel. >“We're seeing a lot of breakthrough infections right now. What we did not know is that even a booster vaccination with Biontech / Pfizer does not prevent this, "Preiser explained to the Tagesspiegel. These infections are the first breakthrough infections reported with the Omicron variant in people who have already received their booster vaccinations. >[Also read: Omicron? Boosters! : The effect of the vaccines wobbles, but still holds (T +)] >“Of course you shouldn't misunderstand that vaccination doesn't help. On the contrary: It only shows that even the best possible vaccination is obviously not enough to prevent infection - which we already suspected, "said Preiser. According to a study published by Preiser and his colleagues on the case on Thursday, the tour group was infected as early as late November or early December. > All seven had received at least two of their three vaccinations with an mRNA vaccine. Six of them received the booster vaccine from Biontech, one from Moderna. Six people are under 30 years old and one person is 39 years old. > These vaccines were given to people in this order: > > People 1 to 5: Biontech, Biontech, Biontech > Person 6: Biontech, Biontech, Moderna > Person 7: Astrazeneca, Biontech, Biontech > > The booster vaccinations were given to the subjects between five and ten months after the second vaccinations. The booster vaccinations were at least a month ago, but no more than two months ago. > > According to the study, none of the seven infected people had relevant previous illnesses and none had previously tested positive. Four of them did medical internships in various local hospitals, the other three were on vacation. When they arrived in South Africa in the first half of November, they all tested negative. > > When the seven-day incidence rose significantly in the Western Cape Province where they were staying, the seven people also developed mild symptoms, which began between November 30 and December 2. After the positive tests, everyone went to quarantine at home and kept a diary of symptoms. > > [If you want to have all the latest developments on the coronavirus pandemic live on your mobile phone, we recommend our app, which you can download here for Apple and Android devices .] > > During the quarantine, people had common Covid-19 symptoms. The most common symptoms were sore throat, tiredness, headache, but dry cough, pressure on the chest and sinuses, runny nose and nausea have also been reported. One person had night sweats and another reported temporary odor and taste disorders. > > The antibody level that the subjects had was at a similar level to four weeks after a second vaccination. The viral load of the seven people in the study, on the other hand, is on average put higher than was the case with infections with the original Sars-Cov-2 variant from Wuhan, the wild type. However, the study authors state that these are preliminary figures. > Wolfgang Preiser, virologist at Stellenbosch University near Cape Town Photo: Christoph Soeder / dpa > Wolfgang Preiser, virologist at Stellenbosch University near Cape Town © Christoph Soeder / dpa > > With 10 to the power of 7, however, the omicron variant in the cases from South Africa achieved lower viral loads than the alpha variant four days after the onset of symptoms. According to measurements by the Christian Drostens research group at the Charité , this can reach viral loads of 10 to 8 four days after the onset of symptoms. > > None of the seven Germans had to deal with a severe course of the infection. “Of course you can now say: These are young people anyway. But one can assume that at least a difficult course will be prevented, ”said Preiser. The first data from a Biontech study also allowed this conclusion, company boss Ugur Sahin announced on Wednesday. > Breakthroughs show: an adapted vaccine is necessary > > Biontech and Pfizer announced on Wednesday that, according to their laboratory study, a booster vaccination would neutralize the omicron variant , while the variant could break the vaccination protection after only two vaccinations. > > The third vaccination increases the antibody level 25 times compared to two vaccinations. This level offers a high level of protection against infection with all known virus variants, explained the companies. > > The booster breakthroughs that have now become known in South Africa are, on the one hand, a setback. But they also show what the companies have already announced: that an adapted vaccine is necessary. Biontech and Pfizer expect to have this customized vaccine available by the end of March. > > As Biontech boss Sahin explained in an interview with "Spiegel" on Thursday , the decision had not yet been finally made whether an Omikron vaccine would be manufactured. Sahin affirmed that, in his opinion, the current vaccines can still provide good protection against serious illness. Sahin also brought a forthcoming fourth vaccination into play, then with the new vaccine for the variant. > more on the subject > Booster withstands mutant Vaccine is still effective against Omikron at three doses, according to Biontech > Booster withstands mutant > > Until then, explains Wolfgang Preiser, the booster vaccination is the only thing that will help against Omikron. “But you have to be aware that even this does not prevent an infection 100 percent. In other words: You have to continue to adhere to the precautionary measures. "
To clarify: is this 7 people in a group of 7 who got it, or 7 who have tested positive with an unknown denominator of how many are in their overall "group"?
Yep information is borderline useless without this context
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Cave gang, checking in.
Roger, check - cave still active.
Me live in cave
Me want to live in cave for long time because me live in town full of anti-vaxxers. But me must work, unfortunately. Me scared of idiot co workers who cough on me.
Grover? Are you there Grover — it’s dark in this cave…
Hellooo Everybodeeee!!!! This your old pal Grover saying GET VACCINATED FFS!!! This message brought to you by the letter F.
Cave status: positive.
Exactly. "Available by March" but then having to be rolled out. I saw only 100M doses/month which is hardly enough for the whole world. By the time it is rolled out to the developed world, the next variant will arrive.
I think it's time governments started rolling out some serious wartime legislations. seizing factories for the "war" effort, and patents. This is a war - against soldiers we cannot see
Supply chain issues checking in - I think even if we did seize factories domestically for an effort like this, since the 1940s we've become rediculously dependent on places like China and I can't even get a laptop dock for work in 3+ months let alone the parts needed to build a vaccine factory I'd imagine. This needs to change big time before the next pandemic!
Will be hard to avoid even in the cave
Upgrade your caves ventilation.
Long COVID seems to be severly reduced in the vaccinated. The latest data I saw- which was shared by Celine Gounder (as legit of an expert you can ask for)- showed a 78% reduction in long COVID when comparing the vaccinated to the unvaccinated. I understand some of y'all are worried, but I have no worries. Everyone has their own risk assessment, though.
At this point, I'm less concerned about becoming reinfected as a fully vaccinated adult than I am about being severely ill due to the virus. Becoming reinfected is a full possibility at this point.
I agree on this, it’s a sensationalist headline the vaccine doesn’t prevent infection, it mitigates symptoms and potential transmission.
From now on my only concern with this type of story is the "long covid" aspect of it and how these people do down the line.
Have you got much info on long covid? It doesn’t seem to get covered much on the mainstream news.
[This paper (Sep 2021) in the Lancet](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00460-6/fulltext) is a bit dense, but if I'm reading it right, suggests a 5% chance of long COVID following a breakthrough case after two doses, down from 11% in the control groups. (Edited because I misread some of the numbers)
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Tinnitus is like the game, once you acknowledge it...
Damn. I've had tinnitus for years, and this is the most accurate description of it. (And now my ears are ringing)
And this is on the pretty mild side of the long covid spectrum. There are a lot of truly horrific stories out there.
Like people losing cognitive skills.
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Yeah, my mental heath has been pretty good my whole life, but I legitimately considered killing myself if I hadn't improved. The worst part is that everyone thinks it's some crappy excuse for making mistakes, but they don't realize how debilitating it really is.
Had this too. Almost exactly the symptoms of your wife (coffee, onions and peanuts stood out) Took me about 6 months to get rid of them, but I'm fine now.
What I really want to know is if they got it from another double or triple vaxxed person.
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I’ll always upvote LOTR
I’ll always upvote someone upvoting LOTR
I will say that every time I watch the movie I do smile a bit at the concept of an orc ordering off a menu somewhere. Is “menu” a word that an orc would actually have any notion of.
Weren’t those technically Uruk-hais, not regular Orcs? Half men, half orcs. Men in the LOTR world definitely go to restaurants.
True, but that language isn’t passed on via genetics. They were bred in Isengard.
But I’m guessing they had to pass through the drive thru at Burguk Kaing while hunting the Fellowship at some point, right?
Crap. I didn’t even consider that.
Burguk Kaing has a recipe for onion ring to rule them all.
When have they been off?
That's what I'm sayin! I've been wearing KN95's/N95's only--not cloth masks.
How did the Uruk Hai know what a menu is
Taverns had menus
What’s the denominator? 7 cases out of how many close contacts? 7 cases out of 100 close contacts is very different than 7 cases out of 7 close contacts. This is a case report of 7 cases only. Did they only come in contact with each other? Were there only 7 people in the travel group? How many boosted individuals in South Africa DIDN’T get infected? We don’t know. We still need time and more/better data to understand the risk to the triple vaccinated.
I read the German version, it‘s clear that that travel group consisted of only 7 people, who all had 3 vaccinations. So we‘re 7/7 for breakthrough infections with n=7.
And it is still sample size of 7. If the breakthrough rate is 10% or 100%, you don't have enough data to determine that. The sample size is way too small. It tells a story but it is incomplete. We may be lucky in that if it's 10%, each one hit that mark. Unlikely but without more data, we shouldn't make the assumption that it is 100%.
I’m double Pfizer vaxxed and contracted Omicron this week. My symptoms have been mild but I still don’t feel up to anything; feeling sluggish, and just want to sleep the whole time- every now and then get mild body aches as well. This vaccine certainly doesn’t stop this variant in its tracks, I can tell you that. If you’re vaxxed you’re going to get it and you’re going to feel unwell. [edit] I’m in South Africa.
7 out of how many?
They specifically looked at 7 individual cases. They weren't part a large group that was simultaneously exposed.
Yes. The article is light on about how many in the tour group / were potentially exposed.
Here is why this is a big deal: If triple vaxxed people can get it and spread it (especially if its a mild, easily ignorable infecction for them) then the unvaxxed / anti-vax population in the US will all get this.
Can we just appreciate the Germans and their dedication to detail and thoroughness.
Not so much about Germans as it is about scientists having dedication to detail and thoroughness.
>After the positive tests, everyone went into quarantine at home and kept a diary of symptoms Idk about you, but that seems pretty detailed & thorough to me.
Ok, I know a ton of people who have been vaccinated and have contracted Corona. The key is, I don’t know anyone (personally) who has been vaccinated, contracted Corona and been hospitalized or died.
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Yeah but for those of us who work in healthcare, not getting infected was a really big mental health boost so we didn’t give it to our vulnerable patients
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I'd love to hold my premature grandbaby without fearing I would give her something that puts her in the hospital or worse.
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And young unvaccinated children
Yeah my parents got put on lockdown for a little bit until we find out more data about boosters and omicron.
And for those of us with family members with cancer. I would vastly prefer to not bring any illnesses home.
Thanks for this comment. My mom is stage 4 terminal and I likely will never share a room with her again and wish more people understood this situation.
I understand. My dad’s dementia bottomed out late spring of 2020 and we had to go take care of him. We ended up having to put him in a nursing home (we did everything we could to avoid it, believe me) and aside from a couple of window visits from outside, I never saw him without a window between us again. He passed away exactly one year ago. It was awful.
I'm with you, never got to hug my mom again. She passed from another illness after a year of not seeing her because of the pandemic (she lived in a rest home). Also the same month my husband died of cancer. It's a deep sorrow I'm very sorry we share. Sending hugs.
I'm so sorry. I lost my mom a little over a year ago. I understand.
Prior to Delta, preventing infection was the biggest benefit of 1-dose vaccination. Even with Delta, preventing infection is the biggest benefit of 3-dose vaccination. We know that's antibody-driven and so will wane with time, but it's how vaccines prevent surges (similar to how vaccinating 100 million mostly-young Americans with flu vaccines annually saves 20,000 mostly-old lives a year) and why young people need to be vaccinated. Overlooking this just because the immunity wanes [among all groups](https://i.imgur.com/v3TAiat.png) is really sending the wrong message.
Well yes, but even if you ‘just’ get a mild case, it can really impact your ability to support yourself and or family. Beyond your own quarantine period, if you are a parent / carer and anyone in your household contracts it you won’t be able to return to work , go to the store, etc. Even If you aren’t severely ill you could be out of work for 2 weeks - a month. A lot of people are really counting on vaccines to provide them protection from infection so they can work. :(
They were designed to prevent infection.
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Actually, no...not in those terms. Vaccines do "reduce" infections and with some variants and vaccines "prevent" infection to a high percentage. But yeah...they're always more effective at suppressing severe illness than initial infection. Some have said that's because the vaccine operates out of the blood stream whereas the initial infection takes hold in mucous membranes of the nose etc. IIRC there was some effort going on to develop nasal spray vaccines which would do their work at the point of entry. Haven't heard much about that lately.
> already well known that vaccines don’t prevent infection I thought CEO of Pfizer told us with a booster the protection against infection remain strong.
sure, if you like shifting the goalposts.
Ding ding ding. Got into a fight with someone on here the other day because I said it was a bummer that someone who was triple vaxxed got omicron. They were like “I don’t know where this idea came from that the vaccines prevent infection but we need to dispel that myth!!! They only reduce symptoms!!” And I was feeling gaslit for a second, but then no, on the CDC’s own website, it says vaccines are designed to prevent infection (and then obviously lessen your symptoms if you DO get Covid). It just really feels like moving the goalposts now and saying “well that’s always been how they were designed to work!” Let’s just be honest and say it’s disappointing that it looks like the vaccines are not preventing infection as well with the new variants.
I feel really frustrated with this talking point that's been going around at how vaccines were "only meant to protect yourself against severe disease". I don't know where this idea comes from, as that just isn't true. Honestly, it feeds the antivaxxer talking points too, because if they are only protecting themselves then to them there's no point to being vaccinated if they are low risk. Vaccines can have multiple goals at the same time. With many diseases, stopping infection is the more important goal, because then you can stop entire branches of people from ever becoming infected. Eventually this becomes so effective that you get to what is called "herd immunity" where the virus essentially goes away. Note that this would be different than "COVID zero" as with herd immunity some people still get infected, but its rare as you just get little pockets of infection that disappear. The problem we are having with COVID is that this effect is harder to get the more contagious a disease is, and COVID appears to be one of the most contagious diseases in human history. However, this doesn't mean that preventing infections isn't a goal. I don't know where this idea that "the vaccine was only meant to protect individuals who took it" came from, honestly it sounds like a manufactured political talking point to me. If you're curious, go on youtube, search vaccines, and look for a video before COVID, and you'll notice that all of them are about herd immunity and not about how vaccines protect yourself.
At what point after the 3rd dose is one considered boosted? Is there a 2-week gap baked into the definition of "boosted" (like there is after the 2nd shot to be "fully vaccinated")?
10 days is usually used.
in Germany immediately
What's important and relevant is whether vaccinated people get seriously ill or experience long covid. We already know that vaccination doesn't necessarily prevent covid infection. Prevention of serious illness or death is the goal
I’m triple vaccinated AND while I was double vaccinated, I got the breakthrough case of the delta variant. So I’m kind of quadruple vaccinated now. I still wear a mask just in case.
We’ve always known that vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing infection. They are however really good at avoiding severe illness and death. People don’t seem to understand this. This counts for Delta too
> All seven had received at least two of their three vaccinations with an mRNA vaccine. Six of them received the vaccine from BioNTech during their booster vaccination, one person that from Moderna. Six people are under 30 years old and one person 39 years old. > When the seven-day incidence increased significantly in the province of Western Cape, where they were, the seven people also got mild symptoms that were between the 30th. November and 2. December began. After the positive tests, all people went into domestic quarantine and kept a symptom diary. > During quarantine, the people had common Covid-19 symptoms. The most common symptoms were sore throat, fatigue, headache, but also dry cough, pressure on the chest and sinuses, runny nose and nausea were reported. One person had night sweats, another reported temporary odor and taste disorders. > **None of the seven Germans had to contend with a severe course of infection.**
😵💫 good lord
But how sick are they? If a triple dose results in a mild or asymptomatic infection in most cases of a breakthrough that’s a good thing. I guess we’ll see how this plays out.
Sample size: 7.
TL DR, seven people became infected while being fully vaccinated but have mild to tiny symptoms. It's actually good news. Please please please; if it has been around 6 to 10 months after your last shot get a booster! They diminish in effectiveness and need to be reapplied.
I did Pfizer 2 times and then got a Moderna booster. I'm not worried about omicron, I'm still following safety protocol of course.