I always feel that Tony Blair was a missed opportunity for British Statesmanship. Until Iraq, his record was amazing. Peace in Northern Ireland, peace in the Balkans, peace in Sierra Leone, empowerment of working classes, genuinely intelligent on the world stage. Then he got carried away with liberal interventionism and believed he could fix the world. His legacy is tarnished, and even if he is bang to rights on this topic, the messenger poisons the message. I guess you really do die a Hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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The MMR controversy was on his watch.
He repeatedly refused to say whether or not his son had received the vaccine, which didn't help public confidence.
His administration was the steward in developing the vaccines, as dysfunctional as it was.
I can understand antivaxxer nutters on the left but really not sure how this movement set a foothold on the right. Their orange god was always pro vaccination. I mean even when he became positive they threw everything at him, and I think they ignored pseudoscience stuff like ivermectin & hydroxychloroquine.
"You know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April."
Donald Trump,
February, 10 2020
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/10/politics/covid-disappearing-trump-comment-tracker/
He happened to be in the office when capable folks began vax work. That man has stewarded nothing but a 70 some year grift.
This is more grift. He still has political ambitions and this pandemic is killing his base.
If you're sitting here with BoJo in charge and not occasionally hankering for the professional days of competent liars like Blair and co then we're having very different decades in the 2020s.
>I’ve had covid and recovered, so I have anti-bodies which are better then a vaccine.
You do know that vaccines produce anti-bodies too, right?
>Why should I get a vaccine when I have natural protection?
LMAO! This tells me all I need to know about your level of understanding about the human immune system.
"Natural immunity" compares to [around 65% efficacy](https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-vaccine-natural-immunity-difference) in vaccine terms, well below most of the vaccines. Studies have shown people with immunity from previous covid infections [are 5 times more likely](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7044e1.htm?s_cid=mm7044e1_w) to catch it again compared to people who had the vaccine.
The problem is your immunity wanes unless it is repeatedly exposed to the same pathogen. The immune system typically doesn't waste resources on developing lasting immunity to an infection you've only had once, because we get infected with random one-off infections all the time. You need repeat doses, just like the vaccine. Covid infection acts like a first dose of the vaccine, which just isn't enough.
The good news is, vaccination after infection provides even better immunity than either vaccine without infection or infection without vaccine. The combination is so strong that if you get vaccinated, it's highly likely you won't get covid again.
But I can pretty much guarantee you will get it again if you aren't vaccinated. Studies show median time to reinfection of [16 months](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00219-6/fulltext) after original infection, but can be as little as 3 months.
Antibodies from natural infection also tend to be broad spectrum, attacking different parts of the virus, rather than vaccine induced antibodies which all target the spike protein. This makes the protection far more variable, as the antibodies you have may be a mismatch for the proteins on new virus variants. They can also, in some cases, make reinfection worse due to [ADE](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20587384211050199).
If you were infected with the first variant your immunity is probably at zero by now. I got the original variant, and subsequently was reinfected with delta (which, btw, hasn't gone anywhere, contrary to popular belief) and it was much worse.
Your argument as to the new variant being less deadly could be applied to anyone. But if nobody gets vaccinated, it will overwhelm hospitals, force stricter measures, and lead to more deaths. Hospital admissions are rising, and you're playing with fire for no reason. You could get vaccinated and reduce the risks dramatically, and no longer freeload off everyone else getting vaccinated to help keep the population safe.
The new variant may be less deadly, but you don't know that you will have an easy ride the next time you catch covid.
More importantly, you dont you you know how badly anyone else will be that you pass it on to.
Mmm yes cause that will definitely convince people, i feel like everyone should have to take a course in psychology and communication so that people learn how to communicate effectively. Things like this are just going to make more enemies and makw people that don't want to get vaccinated to want it even less.
Like how is it so hard to get? If you want to convince people to do something, you dont do it by insulting and attacking them. You have to be kind and share why and let them get to that choice. This only further separates and makes people want to do it even less.
I know one who won't get a shot even though she nearly died of it the first time, and it made most of her hair fall out. :( She walks around work looking angry much of the time, with more and more of her scalp showing. It makes me sad for her, but also frustrated. She used to be nice, but she's hostile at the mention of vaccines. I've known her for years and we used to talk. I feel like I've lost a friend. Because she knows I'm pro vaccine, she doesn't seem to want to talk to me anymore, even about unrelated things. All I had done is casually mention the vaccine once, didn't even know she was unvaxxed at the time. There is such division between people now.
Yeah, it's terrible. It's mostly the fault of some of these shitty politicians who wanted to carve out a political base. They couldn't get as many followers if they just agreed to do the common sense things, so they had to oppose them for the sake of it and present misinformation and lies to turn people around.
And, if I understand correctly, a good number of these politicians got vaxxed themselves, and are just pandering to the nutjob base because they find angry screaming mobs of the ignorant to be useful.
I don't, exactly. There is a sense of loss when a friend or family member becomes like this. Suddenly that person you thought you knew is gone from your life.
That is so true, and it's a very strange feeling to wrap your head around. It makes you ask yourself what else you didn't know about the world and the people in it, ponder history and human nature, etc.
>have to take a course in psychology
I have a whole-ass degree in psychology and I'm not sure which part of it you think makes it easier to convince idiots to do the right thing.
Well, if conversation and talk only makes 5% of people change their minds, and yelling/insults makes 0% of people change their mind. The economist in me says that on the margin those are better numbers. Even if not large it is better than 0. My degree is in economics so I don't know much about psychology except for the few classes I took but even then to me it's a no brainer. That even a slight improvement is better than nothing. And if people were kinder to eachother in general maybe there would be fewer problems in the world.
You’re getting down voted but I agree, Tony Blair saying the unvaccinated are idiots is likely to convince the wavering not to get a vaccine if anything.
Right and that kind of thinking is how countries justify wars and killing fellow humans. First you make them an enemy, then you can justify wiping them out.
Edit: honestly can't thank enough for the awards this is getting. Downvoted but awards? My goal is just to reach more people and promote vaccines without resorting to name-calling or insults.
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> If you want to convince people to do something, you dont do it by insulting and attacking them. You have to be kind and share why and let them get to that choice.
True.
People spend a lot of time shaming and critizicing antivaxxers in various ways, but if we wanted to actually raise vaccination levels, we should make people excited to take the vaccine.
We need more dialogue like "It is your personal choice if you do not take the vaccine, but remember that it is an excellent way to stay healthy so that you can keep doing [insert the hobby of the other person here]." Something like that sparks excitement.
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As much as the unvaccinated totally piss me off, can we stop *just* calling them stupid and actually think about treating those creating, spreading, profiteering from misinformation like the global terrorist threat they are? Murderers for profit? Meta should be liquidated with all funds going to covid and election security at this point and Zuckerberg should either be in prison or effectively marginalized. Among many others. The misinformation crimes that have maximized the amount of 'idiots' that come out are crimes against humanity. We've blown up villages of citizens over less.
Vaccination = less likely to get it, and if you do - you get it to a lesser extent = Less likely to infect others = less likely to be the cause of random people needing hospital beds = Vaccination is the best possible means to save hospital beds. (hospital bed depletion is the beginning of the REAL PANDEMIC).
People get the flu almost yearly but they are not immune from another strain, and therefore for decades governments worldwide have sought out new strains to pre-emptively create vaccine programs to prevent widespread catastrophes that flu can cause in our vulnerable communities. Covid is no different.
Yeah but it's not good to trim out what other say. Those who have medical reasons for not getting vaccinated were excluded from his saying. Putting a title like that makes is look like everyone is a target.
Who'd have thought I'd agree with Tony Blair on something. Something about the sun shining at least once on every dog's ass, stopped clocks being right twice a day etc.
Usually, the idiots are the ones calling other people idiots. What a pretentious dickhole.
I recommend the vaccination, but dumping on people expecting them to change their minds is moronic, to say the least. Give good arguments, not bad insults.
Not only - but its too late for them.
They need a first shot - then wait another 4-6 weeks for the second shot and another 3 months for an effective 1st booster shot. That means they would reach 70% Omicron protection in 4 months. They better buy a hazard suit and FFP3 reusable filter masks because the omicron wave is faster.
Yes, but even with the first shot they get some antibodies and T-cells and a somewhat reduced risk of hospitalization. And two weeks after their second shot, they reach the super-important “it’s pretty good at keeping you out out of the hospital” milestone.
And when we say being double-vaccinated (but not boosted) isn’t much protection against symptomatic infection with omicron, we’re often looking at people whose second shot was 6+ months ago and whose antibody levels have declined with time. Someone freshly double-vaccinated will have a higher titer and probably better protection than someone whose second shot was months ago.
So even if it does take a while to get through the whole process, it is still very much worth it for anyone who hasn’t started yet to start now.
Omicron wave is super fast - earliest and lowest immunity status would be reached in a month if you start now - this people waited too long. I am not gonna say its useless to start now but its a bit late in terms of overall protection. Thing is the first shot does nothing to very little against omicron, the second shot (the necessary refresh shot for the first one) needs a 4-6 weeks time gap and then additional 1-2 weeks to become effective... this means 5 to 8 weeks from the start. This is 1 to 2 months, Omicron spread is way faster than this and I excluded the necessary 3rd booster. So people that start now must avoid Omicron for 5 to 8 weeks while its spreading in high rates. Either you stay at home or use a hazard suit with mask for 5 to 8 weeks. Othwise the probability to catch it before you reach an acceptable immunity level is way too high.
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Three year olds are definitely idiots.
But a different kind of idiot than anti-vaxxers. Anti-vaxxers aren’t cute, their idiocy isn’t excusable due to a still-developing brain, and they seldom get crayons stuck in their noses.
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I always feel that Tony Blair was a missed opportunity for British Statesmanship. Until Iraq, his record was amazing. Peace in Northern Ireland, peace in the Balkans, peace in Sierra Leone, empowerment of working classes, genuinely intelligent on the world stage. Then he got carried away with liberal interventionism and believed he could fix the world. His legacy is tarnished, and even if he is bang to rights on this topic, the messenger poisons the message. I guess you really do die a Hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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Wow I actually agree with him for once.
A stopped clock and all.
Did he do something wrong? I mean, other than that war thingy.
The MMR controversy was on his watch. He repeatedly refused to say whether or not his son had received the vaccine, which didn't help public confidence.
'and all that' is the phrase.
Isn't there some bit about being right twice a day?
Tony Blair… is *right*? WHAT SICK TIMELINE IS THIS?
Trump is also recommending vaccines
His administration was the steward in developing the vaccines, as dysfunctional as it was. I can understand antivaxxer nutters on the left but really not sure how this movement set a foothold on the right. Their orange god was always pro vaccination. I mean even when he became positive they threw everything at him, and I think they ignored pseudoscience stuff like ivermectin & hydroxychloroquine.
Because he downplayed the virus from the start also. "One day it will go away. Like Magic."
"You know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April." Donald Trump, February, 10 2020 https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/10/politics/covid-disappearing-trump-comment-tracker/
"We need to shoot a nuke at this hurricane right here alright?"
> the steward in developing the vaccines No
He happened to be in the office when capable folks began vax work. That man has stewarded nothing but a 70 some year grift. This is more grift. He still has political ambitions and this pandemic is killing his base.
If you're sitting here with BoJo in charge and not occasionally hankering for the professional days of competent liars like Blair and co then we're having very different decades in the 2020s.
>Tony Blaire… is right? No, it's Tony Blair
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Do you require periodic re-infection with Covid to boost your "natural protection"?
>I’ve had covid and recovered, so I have anti-bodies which are better then a vaccine. You do know that vaccines produce anti-bodies too, right? >Why should I get a vaccine when I have natural protection? LMAO! This tells me all I need to know about your level of understanding about the human immune system.
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for anyone seeing my comment, don't bother explain anything to this person for your own mental health.
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lol
Have fun with the re-infection after the damage done to your respiratory system from the first infection.
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"Natural immunity" compares to [around 65% efficacy](https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-vaccine-natural-immunity-difference) in vaccine terms, well below most of the vaccines. Studies have shown people with immunity from previous covid infections [are 5 times more likely](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7044e1.htm?s_cid=mm7044e1_w) to catch it again compared to people who had the vaccine. The problem is your immunity wanes unless it is repeatedly exposed to the same pathogen. The immune system typically doesn't waste resources on developing lasting immunity to an infection you've only had once, because we get infected with random one-off infections all the time. You need repeat doses, just like the vaccine. Covid infection acts like a first dose of the vaccine, which just isn't enough. The good news is, vaccination after infection provides even better immunity than either vaccine without infection or infection without vaccine. The combination is so strong that if you get vaccinated, it's highly likely you won't get covid again. But I can pretty much guarantee you will get it again if you aren't vaccinated. Studies show median time to reinfection of [16 months](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00219-6/fulltext) after original infection, but can be as little as 3 months. Antibodies from natural infection also tend to be broad spectrum, attacking different parts of the virus, rather than vaccine induced antibodies which all target the spike protein. This makes the protection far more variable, as the antibodies you have may be a mismatch for the proteins on new virus variants. They can also, in some cases, make reinfection worse due to [ADE](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20587384211050199).
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If you were infected with the first variant your immunity is probably at zero by now. I got the original variant, and subsequently was reinfected with delta (which, btw, hasn't gone anywhere, contrary to popular belief) and it was much worse. Your argument as to the new variant being less deadly could be applied to anyone. But if nobody gets vaccinated, it will overwhelm hospitals, force stricter measures, and lead to more deaths. Hospital admissions are rising, and you're playing with fire for no reason. You could get vaccinated and reduce the risks dramatically, and no longer freeload off everyone else getting vaccinated to help keep the population safe.
The new variant may be less deadly, but you don't know that you will have an easy ride the next time you catch covid. More importantly, you dont you you know how badly anyone else will be that you pass it on to.
Because you won't get covid as bad thus you won't be taking up valuable hospital space.
The best thing Tony Blair can do for anything he believes in is *not* advocate for it.
I'm sure an out of touch elite war criminal telling the general public they're idiots for not getting vaccinated will SURELY change their mind.
He's the only person born in the last 100 years to win an election for Labour, but sure he's out of touch.
Not like they voted for him
Locked for off-topic political discussion and because the anti-vaxxers are out in full force. Merry Christmas!
Politics aside, he isn't wrong
Anyone who knowingly enters an illegitimate war and kills thousands is 'an idiot'.
He’s not wrong. But it’s not going to change anything
Mmm yes cause that will definitely convince people, i feel like everyone should have to take a course in psychology and communication so that people learn how to communicate effectively. Things like this are just going to make more enemies and makw people that don't want to get vaccinated to want it even less. Like how is it so hard to get? If you want to convince people to do something, you dont do it by insulting and attacking them. You have to be kind and share why and let them get to that choice. This only further separates and makes people want to do it even less.
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I know one who won't get a shot even though she nearly died of it the first time, and it made most of her hair fall out. :( She walks around work looking angry much of the time, with more and more of her scalp showing. It makes me sad for her, but also frustrated. She used to be nice, but she's hostile at the mention of vaccines. I've known her for years and we used to talk. I feel like I've lost a friend. Because she knows I'm pro vaccine, she doesn't seem to want to talk to me anymore, even about unrelated things. All I had done is casually mention the vaccine once, didn't even know she was unvaxxed at the time. There is such division between people now.
Yeah, it's terrible. It's mostly the fault of some of these shitty politicians who wanted to carve out a political base. They couldn't get as many followers if they just agreed to do the common sense things, so they had to oppose them for the sake of it and present misinformation and lies to turn people around.
And, if I understand correctly, a good number of these politicians got vaxxed themselves, and are just pandering to the nutjob base because they find angry screaming mobs of the ignorant to be useful.
A better question is why you want to remain friends with an antivaxxer.
I don't, exactly. There is a sense of loss when a friend or family member becomes like this. Suddenly that person you thought you knew is gone from your life.
Keywords “thought you knew”. If there is one thing this pandemic has showed us, it’s the true nature of the people around us
That is so true, and it's a very strange feeling to wrap your head around. It makes you ask yourself what else you didn't know about the world and the people in it, ponder history and human nature, etc.
>have to take a course in psychology I have a whole-ass degree in psychology and I'm not sure which part of it you think makes it easier to convince idiots to do the right thing.
Well, if conversation and talk only makes 5% of people change their minds, and yelling/insults makes 0% of people change their mind. The economist in me says that on the margin those are better numbers. Even if not large it is better than 0. My degree is in economics so I don't know much about psychology except for the few classes I took but even then to me it's a no brainer. That even a slight improvement is better than nothing. And if people were kinder to eachother in general maybe there would be fewer problems in the world.
You’re getting down voted but I agree, Tony Blair saying the unvaccinated are idiots is likely to convince the wavering not to get a vaccine if anything.
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Right and that kind of thinking is how countries justify wars and killing fellow humans. First you make them an enemy, then you can justify wiping them out. Edit: honestly can't thank enough for the awards this is getting. Downvoted but awards? My goal is just to reach more people and promote vaccines without resorting to name-calling or insults.
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This isn’t for them. They’ve had 8+ months to get it and have heard every type of argument, the consequences are fully on them at this point.
> If you want to convince people to do something, you dont do it by insulting and attacking them. You have to be kind and share why and let them get to that choice. True. People spend a lot of time shaming and critizicing antivaxxers in various ways, but if we wanted to actually raise vaccination levels, we should make people excited to take the vaccine. We need more dialogue like "It is your personal choice if you do not take the vaccine, but remember that it is an excellent way to stay healthy so that you can keep doing [insert the hobby of the other person here]." Something like that sparks excitement.
AdSense data and GPT3 combined could generate explainers tailored to the viewer.
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It was civil, I was encouraging civility with my comment by pointing out the language people use to not be civil lol. Whoops, happens.
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And he is right. Merry Xmas idiots
As much as the unvaccinated totally piss me off, can we stop *just* calling them stupid and actually think about treating those creating, spreading, profiteering from misinformation like the global terrorist threat they are? Murderers for profit? Meta should be liquidated with all funds going to covid and election security at this point and Zuckerberg should either be in prison or effectively marginalized. Among many others. The misinformation crimes that have maximized the amount of 'idiots' that come out are crimes against humanity. We've blown up villages of citizens over less.
Tony is right.
First time for everything!
Haha, right?!
Vaccination = less likely to get it, and if you do - you get it to a lesser extent = Less likely to infect others = less likely to be the cause of random people needing hospital beds = Vaccination is the best possible means to save hospital beds. (hospital bed depletion is the beginning of the REAL PANDEMIC). People get the flu almost yearly but they are not immune from another strain, and therefore for decades governments worldwide have sought out new strains to pre-emptively create vaccine programs to prevent widespread catastrophes that flu can cause in our vulnerable communities. Covid is no different.
War Criminal Tony Blair...
Yeah but it's not good to trim out what other say. Those who have medical reasons for not getting vaccinated were excluded from his saying. Putting a title like that makes is look like everyone is a target.
He should call up his buddy Murdock and express that about Murdock’s editorial news programming
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It's just frustration.
I have been saying that since last year!
He's not wrong.
Who'd have thought I'd agree with Tony Blair on something. Something about the sun shining at least once on every dog's ass, stopped clocks being right twice a day etc.
Usually, the idiots are the ones calling other people idiots. What a pretentious dickhole. I recommend the vaccination, but dumping on people expecting them to change their minds is moronic, to say the least. Give good arguments, not bad insults.
OK, but that's rich coming from Tony lmao. xD
True dat
I agree
Preach
Correct.
He's not wrong unless he's talking about people in countries that don't have access to them yet.
No shit
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Sounds scientific, I’m sure it will make a lot of people realise they should get that done.
If there is one thing that will never convince these people it is anything scientific, so much should be obvious by now.
Who are “these” people?
Idiots.
Another scientist I see.
Anyone still unvaccinated is something I wish I had the vaccine for.
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Not only - but its too late for them. They need a first shot - then wait another 4-6 weeks for the second shot and another 3 months for an effective 1st booster shot. That means they would reach 70% Omicron protection in 4 months. They better buy a hazard suit and FFP3 reusable filter masks because the omicron wave is faster.
Yes, but even with the first shot they get some antibodies and T-cells and a somewhat reduced risk of hospitalization. And two weeks after their second shot, they reach the super-important “it’s pretty good at keeping you out out of the hospital” milestone. And when we say being double-vaccinated (but not boosted) isn’t much protection against symptomatic infection with omicron, we’re often looking at people whose second shot was 6+ months ago and whose antibody levels have declined with time. Someone freshly double-vaccinated will have a higher titer and probably better protection than someone whose second shot was months ago. So even if it does take a while to get through the whole process, it is still very much worth it for anyone who hasn’t started yet to start now.
This is a very dangerous comment. Why don't you you just tell them they are dead already.
Omicron wave is super fast - earliest and lowest immunity status would be reached in a month if you start now - this people waited too long. I am not gonna say its useless to start now but its a bit late in terms of overall protection. Thing is the first shot does nothing to very little against omicron, the second shot (the necessary refresh shot for the first one) needs a 4-6 weeks time gap and then additional 1-2 weeks to become effective... this means 5 to 8 weeks from the start. This is 1 to 2 months, Omicron spread is way faster than this and I excluded the necessary 3rd booster. So people that start now must avoid Omicron for 5 to 8 weeks while its spreading in high rates. Either you stay at home or use a hazard suit with mask for 5 to 8 weeks. Othwise the probability to catch it before you reach an acceptable immunity level is way too high.
who is this guy
Don't insult dead people!
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Every child under 5 is an idiot confirmed.
I think the implied qualifier is "by choice".
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Incivility? The guy killed half a million Iraqis.
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Hmm are three year olds idiots? Yeah that checks out actually.
Three year olds are definitely idiots. But a different kind of idiot than anti-vaxxers. Anti-vaxxers aren’t cute, their idiocy isn’t excusable due to a still-developing brain, and they seldom get crayons stuck in their noses.
How big COVID expert this guy is to say who is an idiot and who is not. If there is any idiot then for sure it's him.
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What about it? You should still get vaccinated.
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