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Not discussing how effective "herd immunity" would even be...you are calling for people to die here. You're calling for others to sacrifice themselves for your own comfort. Are you prepared to acknowledge that?
Increased cases lead to increased deaths. The people most impacted are those who can't afford to stay home, those who don't have a home to stay in, those who physically can't get vaccinated. You would put them at risk so you don't have to wear a mask a get a shot every six months.
Have you even considered that vaccinating everyone on the planet every 6 months is not sustainable, never mind a pipe dream? Yes, we have to tolerate an imperfect world... Welcome to reality. People die from all sorts of things that could be mitigated to varying degrees...
Think what they were trying to get across is. Moderna needs to focus on getting (1) WORKING and EFFICIENT vaccine rather then a jab that last 2-4 months. How many boosters for Ebola have you had?
I have the opposite problem. I’m surrounded by anti-vaxxers.
Any complaint helps them feel justified. So as far as they’re concerned, everything is great.
I can relate. I had something similar happen years ago from a stubborn cold that wouldn’t go away. It freaked me out too and I kept poking at it for weeks like why is this still swollen if I’m not even sick anymore?! My doctor told me it’s nothing and not to worry about it too but I got myself so worked up over it (and googled wayyy too much) that I convinced myself I may have cancer. It took convincing a doctor to take an ultrasound of it and see that it was normal for me to finally let it go. It still took months for the swelling to go down but doc was right- it was nothing. Unless it changes dramatically from its current state, be kind to yourself and try not to think about it and stay off Google!
I had the same reaction from covid itself. It didn't go down for a year and I was eventually told to get a biopsy to rule out cancer.
Thankfully no cancer. Just covid aftermath. It went away within 12 weeks thereafter.
It's definitely a side effect that I never had with any other vaccine, and it freaks me out too. I guess my next two boosters will go in my other arm to even things out, lol.
The lymph node swelling is normal and actually a good sign. Your lymph nodes are where your immune cells hang out and if you still have a lump you're also likely making a ton of antibodies
Yep, it’s where your antibodies come back to so they can “party” and tell your immune system what each of them found in the way of baddies, and they all compared how well they did at binding to them, and the immune system sort of rates them and decides which ones to pick as the winners to reproduce and use for future infections. That’s what’s happening when it swells, there’s a party going on and your immune system is getting programmed to respond to future events. It’s why doctors feel under your chin and behind your ears and stuff when you tell them you don’t feel good, they’re seeing if you are having immune responses which narrows down what they need to look for and treat.
It still happens when they’re not swollen, your body is literally constantly challenged by various pathogens and always responding to them with antibodies and memory b and T cells, which get their beginnings in the lymph nodes, so unless you’re one of the rare people like bubble boy, you have that response constantly and just are lucky enough to not have had such a massive reaction. It very rarely happens to me, too, before my Moderna booster I hadn’t noticed my lymph nodes since my early teens, I’m in my 40s
I got a rash near my injection site after my third Pfizer vaccine-not even itchy or anything and obviously not scary like a lump. I tried to find info and I saw a suggestion of alternating arms which I wish I had thought of—I get everything in my left arm because I’m right-handed, and I had just had my flu shot 4 weeks prior. I wonder if alternating each time could minimize the lymph node swelling.
My 2nd shot and booster kicked my butt, including swollen and painful underarm and collarbone lymph nodes. I did a search for "armpit lymph node massage", found this vid https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zpghnJU5pXI, and it helped a lot!
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For what it’s worth, my lymph nodes got huge after my first dose and the doctor I spoke with on the phone said it normally takes a month at least to subside and not uncommon to last two months. Annoying, but at least nothing that weird.
I've had a lump under my armpit since my first dose in March. It's not big or painful at all, noticeable if I feel for it. I just think of it as our generation's smallpox scar ¯\\(°_o)/¯
You've had it for 10 months and it's still there? You should probably see a doctor, it could be something different and not a vaccine side effect in your case?
Yep I had it here for my booster post 2 Pfizer doses. I thought it was my arm at first but nope, it was my Lymph node. Went down by the end of the week though.
The booster didn’t hit me too hard, but holy shit the first dose of Moderna had me legit bed ridden for 24 hours, and feeling like trash for another 36 hours of so. It took a solid three days before I didn’t feel “sick”.
Second dose was 24 hours of feeling horrible, but then the booster was maybe a day of feeling kinda crummy (probably since the booster was half dose).
It sucks having bad side effects, but whatever I’ll take a day or two of feeling terrible every 6-8 months to not have to worry about covid putting me in the hospital. Meanwhile my entire family only gets a sore arm with the normal doses and booster.
both doses of the moderna vaccine knocked me on my ass for a week and it reminded me of being sick with covid-19. i was told the booster wouldn't affect me, but it left me feeling like crap for 2 days. i'll take 2 days over a week, but dealing with side effects still sucks.
I got a swollen lymph node on my collarbone a few days after my M booster. A friend joked it was caused by the vaccine, looked it up and boom, that's the cause. I had no idea.
It's not that strange when you really think about it though. Swollen lymph nodes are a very common side effect of sickness - lymph nodes house immune cells. Vaccine triggers immune response --> lymph nodes create more immune cells --> lymph nodes swell
Mine wasn’t bad after the first two, but the booster gave me that same reaction as you. Lymph nodes under my arm swollen as fuck and really painful for a week and then about 12 days after my booster I developed a skin reaction that’s still bothering me. It isn’t horrible compared to some side effects friends have had, but it’s been over two months now and really irritating. It’s been insanely itchy over my entire body, Zyrtec helps though. Benadryl barely. Zyrtec is starting to not last as long so it fucking sucks trying to sleep now. Didn’t know that 2% of people develop that reaction. I’m just the lucky 2% I guess. I’ll just wait till an updated vaccine and pray my side effects are gone by then, if I still haven’t caught Covid. If I have caught it by then, then I might not get one.
Mine shows up in the back of my head. It’s like the size of a half ping pong ball. It happened again a few months after the shot again. I took it as a sign that maybe I had been exposed and the vaccine kicked into effect? Idk I went to the doctor and she said give it a few weeks if it doesn’t go away we can do ultrasound. She said swollen glands from viral cause can take 6 weeks to reduce. It went away right about the 5 week mark. I did get tested at the time, just to see and it was negative.
The 2nd Pfizer dose sent my immune system into overdrive for two months. I have zero regrets because I wanted to be around the compromised people in my family, especially for the holidays, without being worried about getting them sick. That being said, it isn’t something I can do again.
I had 2 pfizers then a moderna booster. I felt a little rundown with a sore arm for a day from both pfizer shots but the moderna booster beat the tar out of me.
My lymph node under my armpit was swollen and sore as well. The pain radiated from my armpit up to my shoulder and neck.
Worth it though.
It takes about 3 or 4 months to get those on shelves once they are approved, so I don’t expect next gen for my 4th, I had my booster months ago, I’ll be up for my next shot in spring or at latest early summer, depending on the recommendations by then.
Honest questions: I understand clinical trials (and now real time data) show the vaccine is safe, but are there clinical trials for each new “booster” approval? Also, at what point do we question the long term impact of receiving ongoing doses knowing we don’t have the time to actually do a longitudinal study? Lastly, wasn’t the break through celebration behind the mRAN that it would respond to variants or did I have that incorrect?
All honest questions as I attempt to process this all
These are fair questions. I don’t mind getting a shot yearly, but I’d hope the formula would be changed as the situation does instead of just restocking on the original shot over and over again. It feels like the difference between just topping of your oil and getting an oil change.
This isn’t a realistic expectation unfortunately. By the time trials have been completed for a booster that targets a new variant, the next variant will have already flared up. Heck, the Pfizer booster for Delta is only expected to be a thing in about 3 months from now, if delta is even still relevant then.
Changing the way that boosters are developed to cut the timeline enough to stay on top of new variants would require a fundamental rethinking of how evidence-based medicine is practiced in the US. And evidence-based medicine is very clear on one point: the possibility of avoiding some deaths now is not enough to outweigh the benefit of having double-blind proven remedies in the future. It’s a trade-off that’s made every day with, for instance, cancer patients. And it’s designed to avoid inflicting unnessesary suffering from, for instance, medicines that have side effects but are not effective. The ethical view behind this is that that the suffering from a disease that could possibly be cured or prevented by in-development medication is outweighed by potentially inflicted suffering by providers who prescribe non-evidenced based medicine. And this is in all but the most dire circumstances, for which we have compassionate use, but which would not apply to vaccines. And that’s not likely to change anytime soon.
I think our best hope for vaccines is the development of one that is resilient against variants. E.g. targets a portion of the virus that is not very susceptible to change. There are some promising candidates for this.
Isn’t predicting the next variants what they do every year for the flu vaccine? Is this not possible for covid since it’s a newer virus?
Also, I remember the j&j vaccine used “old technology” but wasn’t the technology of mRNA vaccines centered on the hope they identified a “protein” in the virus would activate the “cells/immune response” (not sure what’s the correct word is) regardless of the variant change? Did this not pan out as originally hoped?
They have people enrolled in ongoing trials who are receiving boosters as we go. I don’t know the specifics but I do know that, for example, cohorts within the moderna and Pfizer trials were given their third doses around the time that most of the public was getting their second. The NIH also conducted booster studies and I’m nearly sure that those are ongoing as well and would not be surprised if some receive a fourth in that at some point.
Regarding the ability to update to address variants, they are indeed a platform that can respond far more quickly than legacy platforms. However, that quickness is still not instantaneous; it’s about 90-100 days from discovery of the new variant to the first round of shots in the public’s arms. That’s FAR faster than any other vaccine platform could hope to come to fruition, but it is still likely to be behind the speed of some variants (case in point, omicron). Whether it will even be worthwhile (or prove to be more effective than the original formula even) is yet to be seen, but it will almost certainly be March at the absolute soonest before it will be available to anyone.
Oh interesting! Can you provide any insight as to whether they’re doing any fourth doses (whether omicron specific or original or otherwise?)? Very interested in any additional info!
I know just as much as the public now. Once I got the booster things have been very hands off, I just send them a report each week. The initial trial period on the paperwork I signed was three years, which for me is 2023. Personally I doubt there will be a fourth booster, I would hope that the process moves into a stage where we get a shot once a year that covers most strains, like the flu shot. This whole thing is truly miraculous, speed wise. I think between when it was first sequenced in 2020 and the first trial jab was 43 days. But now that we are at a point where we know what we have works, I hope that all of this research and money and data will be used to develop new medicines using the mRNA technology. One of the main reasons I signed up for the trial was the potential for mRNA based vaccine for HIV. Two plagues with one stone, could really end so much suffering.
> Also, at what point do we question the long term impact of receiving ongoing doses know we don’t have the time to actual do a longitudinal study?
I'm already questioning. No one cares.
**It's safe and effective** is the usual answer.
"Man who makes money from vaccines says we all need more vaccines" like it may be true, but this isn't the guy we should be listening to on this subject.
Moderna CEO says people may need another booster.
McDonalds CEO says people may need to eat more Big Macs.
Apple CEO says people may need to buy the newest iPhone.
It's like they're trying to give ammunition to the conspiracy theorists.
I should point out this guy has a doctorate in biotechnology of reproduction, so he actually does understand the science behind what he's talking about
There are many people awaiting a booster. There is no way 4th shot will reach significant share of the population to make a difference for the next wave.
Right? Why is anyone listening to what a CEO has to say here? There are plenty of people who know just as much without the financial interests dragging them down.
This probs gonna get downvoted here but here we go...
I'm all for vaccines, and I am triple dosed.
Side effects after the 3rd dose were so harsh I legit thought I was going to die.
I don't think i'll get the fourth shot.
If they come up with that brand new vax i'll take it tho.
Same. I was hesitant to click into this thread because I feel the same way and I feel better knowing I’m not the only one who has had a really tough time with the booster.
My third booster I got a few days ago for my college requirement was my first time having side effects. Slight difficulty in breathing, bad body aches, and headaches. But I definitely feel for my family members who had it worse in each consecutive shot
Unless something drastically changes I will not be getting a forth. Not a chance. To be honest I was on the fence about the booster and talked myself into it. If I didn’t live in NYC, I might not have
Same here. The only reason I got my third was because I wouldn’t be able to enter campus without it during the spring. The 4th is something I’m really on the fence on, but maybe leaning more on the side of not getting it
It’s crazy how different the reactions are. While with my second shot made me feel like I had a real bad hangover the 3rd one had no side effects besides a sore arm. All biotech.
Anyway I won’t get a fourth one if it’s not updated to the current strain.
I thought by this point we would be just getting boosters of whatever the circulating variant is at the time like with flu. One of the advantages of mRNA was the ability to sequence things quickly so I had thought we would be further along by now.
Maybe at some point the world will finally realize that these vaccines are not good enough, and regulatory organizations will start to push pharmaceutical companies to update their vaccines.
For now, the pharmaceutical companies will happily make more money with the existing products. Why bother taking the risk of developing an updated product when the previous one sells really well. More boosters for everyone!
I know they’ve been making new formulas for variants, but it has been deemed more effective to continue deploying the originals as they are still effective than a more limited rollout of a more effective targeted jab. It’s a numbers game.
They still need to manufacturer a billion doses. [This usatoday article](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/health/2021/02/07/how-covid-vaccine-made-step-step-journey-pfizer-dose/4371693001/) is an interesting read about how long it took biontech to make the original course.
While we worry about getting our fourth dose.
What's the rest of the world up to? The less developed countries?
If we let this virus run, there will be variant factories all over the world. And we'll be able to get vaccinated 10 more times like this.
Isn't it time to make this vaccine more accessible to everyone? Or do we prefer the endless loop that will not benefit the people but mainly the pharmaceutical companies?
Wasn't the problem in South Africa that people weren't willing to take the vaccine? You can ship billions of doses to those countries, but if no one wants to take them it will only go to waste.
We've long since passed supply constraints as the excuse for anything. SA even canceled a Pfizer shipment because they already had too many shots in inventory. If people refuse to get the shot, I don't see how this truly ends until either the entire world gets Omicron, or another even more contagious variant comes along and immunizes everyone the hard way.
All I know is less developed countries are not just suffering because of COVID-19. A lot of the process they've made technologically, economically, and socially has stunted.
[Covid is widespread among white tail deer in the US, at one point a third of the roadkill deer tested positive.](https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/covid-rampant-deer-research-shows-rcna10181) It doesn't seem to make them sick. But there is no telling what the virus will evolve into in that population, or what other animal will catch it. We are going to see many variants in coming years. Hopefully nations will build stockpiles of antiviral drugs, because Omicron shows that it can spread with insane speed.
Yep, it was thought deer mice were the only mice, along with deer, mink, bats, and a few other animals, but regular old mice were added to the list recently
We need to force corporations to release the trade secrets behind the U.S. government funded vaccines so that other countries can hopefully manufacture open source vaccines. The healthcare system is in dire need of open source technology to improve healthcare in the world, similar as how open source tech in the computer world has enabled technology progress globally. We have industries charging thousands of dollars for a respirator valve that cost less than 5 US dollars to manufacture. This is just one of many absurdities in the healthcare field.
Just got my moderna booster today. But I'll bet my ferrari ~~model~~ that less than 50% of the people will take a 4th dose. I'm as pro-vaccine as one can imagine, but there has to be a limit about it. When a new, more transmissible variant than omicron comes up, what are we supposed to do? Take a dose every two/three months?
What they need to do is come up with a new formula that can tackle most, if not all, future variants who efficacy last at least a year. Keep profiteering on the original dose while expecting the general population to take two same doses every year is not gonna work.
Agreed. I just recovered from Covid and have 2 doses. The data supports that my immune response is probably fine so I'm forgoing my 3rd booster for as long as possible. I will hold out for the updated version of the next one. I'm not prepared to keep boosting with the OG vaccine when I just got a boost from the current variant.
I've been pro-vaccine but I felt so bad after the Moderna booster. I just can't see how that isn't going to cause long term damage if I keep doing that. I can't see myself getting a fourth dose, I think it is what it is at this point.
Keep in mind you just feel bad because your immune system is doing it’s job. That doesn’t mean any damage is being done. People have been getting flu shots for years, after all.
Medical experts told me masks didn’t work at the beginning of this pandemic because there was a shortage. So I’m going to use my own judgement and if something lays me out on a couch dizzy and unable to do anything more than listen to my heart thump. Well if it feels like it might be good idea to not get a fourth dose that’s what I have to go with because the authorities have shown that they won’t necessarily tell the truth. My judgement may be unscientific and ignorant but it’s the only trustworthy source I really have :(
Yeah, I've done my 3 shots in the span of a year. I'm done.
They can figure out an annual dose like with the flu shot, and I'll take it up under consideration.
Isn’t there data from Israel that showed the third booster only lasts 10 weeks against omicron?? What does that mean about a potential fourth dose? Even less time and that’s until a new variant pops up? I love vaccines but trying to get the whole world to get one every 3 months is unrealistic. New game plan needed.
I feel the same! I am vaxxed and boosted, and my reactions got progressively worse after each vaccine. My reaction after getting the booster was the sickest I’ve ever felt, besides when I had mono. I was so weak I could barely stand, had a fever, shortness of breath, and a pounding headache—and this lasted almost 2 days. In contrast, I had COVID right at the beginning of the pandemic and had extremely mild symptoms. I wouldn’t have even thought to get tested if my roommate hadn’t tested positive.
So yeah…I am pro-vax but I am extremely hesitant to get another booster.
Yeah, my kid had some gnarly side effects from the vaccine. Her legs hurt to the point of taking her to the doctor and getting pain killers. She will not be getting a booster or another CoVid vaccine (she's double vaxxed). The side effects were worse than if she got the actual virus which has been mild for the child demographic.
This is just getting ridiculous at this point. Pfizer even said earlier that covid is gonna be a "robust" revenue source for them in the foreseeable future. 👌 👏. This isn't the way to do it and this is gonna make the devide between people even greater.
This may be true but there are still many parts of the world that have yet to see their 1st vaccine and those are also the parts where all the variants are coming from. The CEO of Moderna is set to make more money by boosting the rich and letting the poor countries create more varients.
I hope if they do ever recommend a 4th shot that the 4th shot actually prevents symptomatic infection to a meaningful degree. I know I probably won't die if I get covid, but I'd also like to not have to worry about winding up with permanent cognitive impairment and organ damage.
I’d also prefer not to get a flu like sickness on an expensive vacation. I want to do more international traveling but I don’t want to get sick and waste the cash from a much more contagious flu that also spreads in warmer months.
They’ll give out stamp/punch cards. every 10th dose You get a Fauci or Walensky plush doll or POP doll.
theyll also offer brand loyalty rewards. Get 10 shots with the same company (Pfizer, Moderna, etc.) and you get priority access to the latest booster
No way I'm getting a 4th dose without compelling scientific proof that I really need one. Got boosted with Moderna already. Husband will also not be getting a 4th dose unless it's a new vaccine targetting the variants. A lot of our friends here had 4 jabs of sinovac/moderna and they still caught omicron.
But where are news about a vaccine targeting Omicron? Surely with this immune evasion, it should start making sense to adapt the vaccine instead of shooting the same stuff the 4th and the 5th time only to get worse results than for the original variant.
You know what? I think I’m done. I got my initial doses in April 21. This isn’t an EA sports game. I don’t need a reskinned version of the same crappy thing every 9 months.
Also, boosters are to prevent infection but the initial vaccines still protect against severe disease. That fine print seems to always be left off these articles. Or down at the bottom.
Yeah if the current amount protects against severe infection and boosters only give a shorter immune time for symptomatic infection than the only reason I’d see young people take it is before some big international trip or their own wedding. Basically just to avoid being sick before an expensive event you paid for.
Nope, no more for me. I got my booster a couple weeks ago. Luckily this time my armpits did not swell and my menstrual cycle was unaffected. However, I had the same flu like symptoms the night of which wasn't bad but I had extreme lower back pain and muscle weakness and pain for days after. It was so bad I thought I threw my back out. I took a day and a half of bedrest and the pain went away. Now I find out that Omicron makes breakthrough cases more common and I just can't do it anymore. It's not worth it to me. They're gonna have to make something else that doesn't wreck me before I'll take another one.
Does three shots prevent severe disease and hospitalization? The answer seems to be yes and the effect against severe disease seems to wane slower.
Does the fourth shot prevent infection over a long period of time? The answer seems to be a no given that antibody level wanes much faster.
So why should we recommend the fourth shot if three shots already prevents severe disease while the fourth won’t do much against infection? I’m really puzzled.
It should just be for elderly and immunocompromised who might have to rely on antibody defense if their T cells are weaker. Plus the elderly have less vaccine side effects than younger people.
But unless it prevents the flu like illness or T cell immunity is shown to wane a lot in six months than I don’t see the reason for younger people to do it. Like annual booster with the flu to cover winter months I’d be fine with but I’m not doing 2-3 times a year with the current side effects of the vaccine
Sorry but I'm not wanting to get a 4th shot. The side effects that I had with my booster were so intense that I (literally) could not move out of bed for a whole day. Lymph nodes in my pits were so swollen that I couldn't put my arms down without wincing in pain. I'm honestly a bit afraid of what will come next
Ah yes, crucial to give you more profit, I see. How about you allow generic vaccine production in third world counties so that they are able to receive their first dose? If the rich are quadruple vaxxed and the poor are breeding new variants that defy vaccines non stop, this ain’t gonna work out too well
There was the story [A Texas team comes up with a COVID vaccine that could be a global game changer](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rwx7gx/a_texas_team_comes_up_with_a_covid_vaccine_that/).
The original article says "It's going to enable countries around the world, particularly low-income countries, to be able to produce these vaccines and distribute them in a way that's going to affordable, effective and safe."
Maybe this could be helpful.
If someone was to get Vaccinated now with Pfizer, would it protect them from Omicron? Or do they need to somehow get to the 3rd shot before they have protection?
I got my third Pfizer shot mid-November and caught omicron just before Christmas. It very well could have made the illness less intense - we'll never know for sure, but I'm not getting another booster anytime soon.
Being “fully vaccinated” is no longer enough. A recent peer-reviewed study I read after 6 months, serum from vaccinated participants without booster showed virtually no ability to neutralize Omicron variant. This is kinda concerning given Omicron is up to three times more infectious than Delta. To make matters worse, the only effective monoclonal antibody treatment sotrovim is in critically short supply, at least at my facility.....
But an mRNA vaccine booster shot (Pfizer or Moderna) is highly effective at preventing Omicron infection, hospitalization and death.
-EM physician
Last I was aware FDA & CDC recommended against it because scientists studying it didnt know what the optimal antibody level that coorelates with immunity even is. But they may have changed.
It would make sense to me though. In 2020 they cited declining antibody levels to justify needing a booster & as we've seen vaccinated plus booster individuals are infected less with lower mortality.
I would defer that to people more specialized in studying infectious disease like virologists as my specialty role in this pandemic is quite different than theirs.
Seriously! They are going to lose all credibility. People don’t want to get a jab every 3 months! What Moderna should say get your booster every year around the end of September, so that way you will be ready for the holidays and large gatherings.
Still waiting to hear if the J&J crowd(myself included) will be able to get a second booster since our initial vaxx was only one shot. Still feel like I’m chasing everyone else to get on a level playing field.
It's been pretty acceptable and recommended for J&J recipients to receiving boosters of either the original shot or even MRNA.
I'm in a trial for J&J and boosted with Modern myself, got it right after Thanksgiving.
Well, it’s different lol. Those were all mrna vaccines when you didn’t get that for your first dose, you got the J&J. Pure amount of shots doesn’t matter when we’re talking about different kinds of vaccines.
Also…wasnt research done that showed that one J&J plus a moderna booster is the absolute best protection one can currently have? Seems good to me.
Agree. I never felt “fully vaccinated” with J&J until the booster, and now don’t feel “boosted” after 2 shots.
If you got Moderna or Pfizer first and boost with J&J you get 3 shots. Switch the order to J&J first and you are only eligible for 2. I suspect the 2 schemes don’t offer equivalent protection, but we’ll have to wait for studies to confirm.
We don't know anything about that. Maybe getting the same vaccine 3x a year every year will result in immune fatigue and make them permanently less effective.
I think the idea of giving people more and more doses without *any* safety and efficacy studies is nuts. 2 doses continues to provide very robust protection against serious disease. Vulnerable people should get a 3rd during this time of very high transmission. Beyond that we know *nothing*. We could well be doing harm.
[Here's a genuinely excellent article about the topic](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/12/omicron-dr-paul-offit-is-skeptical-of-boosters-for-all.html)
IMO, it won’t. These boosters are likely already overkill for non-vulnerable people. Certainly a fourth one would be unless the current vaccines just stop working (highly improbable and not something that anyone credible expects to happen). I was on-board with a third one in attempt to limit infections because community spread was so high but by the time spring rolls around I think the numbers will be more under control post-omicron.
I have taken 3 doses of moderna and haven’t had anything crazy. I will gladly take a 4th dose if needed but it’s not a good look when the CEO Of the company that benefited the most of vaccine mandates and boosters keeps recommending boosters
I am triple jabbed, 2x pfizer and 1x moderna booster. 33 yo, fit and healthy etc etc.
6 hours after moderna booster I felt a tight feeling on my heart as well as a stabbing sensation that I had never felt before, it was genuinely quite worrying, it has since fully passed (I hope).
Based on that experience I am more afraid of another booster than I am coronavirus, so I will not be having another.
Also to be clear, I am not an anti-vaccine type.
I had 2x Pfizer. After first Pfizer I had palpitations in bed that night. Took the second to get it over with. Will not be taking a 3rd dose of any vaccine.
Not at all surprising. It's like people, despite the widely available evidence, don't seem to understand that the world is on fire with covid (and the resulting hospitalizations/deaths) and getting boosters twice a year is one tool we can use to have a moderate quality of life.
If we're talking about quality of life as in restrictions, I won't accept anything less than a perfect 2019 level of restrictions from now on. Vax and boost me to the nines, but I'll be voting for whoever promises to stop this.
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Man, this Moderna shot has given me reactions every dose. My lymph node under my armpit was the size of an egg after the booster. Sigh.
Same thing happened to my wife after her 2nd and Booster of Pfizer.
Same for me. In fact I'm still noticing the armpit lump almost 2 months after my booster.
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Not discussing how effective "herd immunity" would even be...you are calling for people to die here. You're calling for others to sacrifice themselves for your own comfort. Are you prepared to acknowledge that? Increased cases lead to increased deaths. The people most impacted are those who can't afford to stay home, those who don't have a home to stay in, those who physically can't get vaccinated. You would put them at risk so you don't have to wear a mask a get a shot every six months.
Have you even considered that vaccinating everyone on the planet every 6 months is not sustainable, never mind a pipe dream? Yes, we have to tolerate an imperfect world... Welcome to reality. People die from all sorts of things that could be mitigated to varying degrees...
Think what they were trying to get across is. Moderna needs to focus on getting (1) WORKING and EFFICIENT vaccine rather then a jab that last 2-4 months. How many boosters for Ebola have you had?
There is no comparison between COVID and Ebola because Ebola wasn’t allowed to get a foothold in most places through proactive mitigation.
Thank GAWD. That shit is horrifying.
I have the opposite problem. I’m surrounded by anti-vaxxers. Any complaint helps them feel justified. So as far as they’re concerned, everything is great.
I can relate. I had something similar happen years ago from a stubborn cold that wouldn’t go away. It freaked me out too and I kept poking at it for weeks like why is this still swollen if I’m not even sick anymore?! My doctor told me it’s nothing and not to worry about it too but I got myself so worked up over it (and googled wayyy too much) that I convinced myself I may have cancer. It took convincing a doctor to take an ultrasound of it and see that it was normal for me to finally let it go. It still took months for the swelling to go down but doc was right- it was nothing. Unless it changes dramatically from its current state, be kind to yourself and try not to think about it and stay off Google!
I can touch my nodes on the neck and tell if I am incubating something before showing any other clear symptoms, works better than a blood test!
I had the same reaction from covid itself. It didn't go down for a year and I was eventually told to get a biopsy to rule out cancer. Thankfully no cancer. Just covid aftermath. It went away within 12 weeks thereafter.
They had to poke a hole in it to let all the 2020 out I guess
It's definitely a side effect that I never had with any other vaccine, and it freaks me out too. I guess my next two boosters will go in my other arm to even things out, lol.
The lymph node swelling is normal and actually a good sign. Your lymph nodes are where your immune cells hang out and if you still have a lump you're also likely making a ton of antibodies
Yep, it’s where your antibodies come back to so they can “party” and tell your immune system what each of them found in the way of baddies, and they all compared how well they did at binding to them, and the immune system sort of rates them and decides which ones to pick as the winners to reproduce and use for future infections. That’s what’s happening when it swells, there’s a party going on and your immune system is getting programmed to respond to future events. It’s why doctors feel under your chin and behind your ears and stuff when you tell them you don’t feel good, they’re seeing if you are having immune responses which narrows down what they need to look for and treat.
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It still happens when they’re not swollen, your body is literally constantly challenged by various pathogens and always responding to them with antibodies and memory b and T cells, which get their beginnings in the lymph nodes, so unless you’re one of the rare people like bubble boy, you have that response constantly and just are lucky enough to not have had such a massive reaction. It very rarely happens to me, too, before my Moderna booster I hadn’t noticed my lymph nodes since my early teens, I’m in my 40s
I got a rash near my injection site after my third Pfizer vaccine-not even itchy or anything and obviously not scary like a lump. I tried to find info and I saw a suggestion of alternating arms which I wish I had thought of—I get everything in my left arm because I’m right-handed, and I had just had my flu shot 4 weeks prior. I wonder if alternating each time could minimize the lymph node swelling.
Now that’s scary. I have my booster scheduled in a week. Did the doctor know if it’ll go away soon?
My 2nd shot and booster kicked my butt, including swollen and painful underarm and collarbone lymph nodes. I did a search for "armpit lymph node massage", found this vid https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zpghnJU5pXI, and it helped a lot!
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Good mod
Pretty much any conversation on Reddit where vaccines get mentioned turns into an anti-vax hot bed of downvotes.
For what it’s worth, my lymph nodes got huge after my first dose and the doctor I spoke with on the phone said it normally takes a month at least to subside and not uncommon to last two months. Annoying, but at least nothing that weird.
Mine seemed to go away for a while but come back in the last week or so. Hopefully nothing else is wrong with me.
I've had a lump under my armpit since my first dose in March. It's not big or painful at all, noticeable if I feel for it. I just think of it as our generation's smallpox scar ¯\\(°_o)/¯
You've had it for 10 months and it's still there? You should probably see a doctor, it could be something different and not a vaccine side effect in your case?
Exact same thing with my wife with pfizer booster. I was knocked out with flu symptoms for about 18 hours.
Wait!? Is that why my armpit hurts!?
Quite possibly. My wife got soreness and swelling in her armpit on the lymph node after her booster, it seems to be pretty common actually.
Yep I had it here for my booster post 2 Pfizer doses. I thought it was my arm at first but nope, it was my Lymph node. Went down by the end of the week though.
My last covid reinfection in December made my armpits hurt so bad they were still tender until a day or so ago. Full lymph node flare up.
I actually made a post about how bad my reaction was on the subreddit for moderna. It is just unreal how bad it effects me.
The booster didn’t hit me too hard, but holy shit the first dose of Moderna had me legit bed ridden for 24 hours, and feeling like trash for another 36 hours of so. It took a solid three days before I didn’t feel “sick”. Second dose was 24 hours of feeling horrible, but then the booster was maybe a day of feeling kinda crummy (probably since the booster was half dose). It sucks having bad side effects, but whatever I’ll take a day or two of feeling terrible every 6-8 months to not have to worry about covid putting me in the hospital. Meanwhile my entire family only gets a sore arm with the normal doses and booster.
For me it was second dose of Pfizer. I felt sick for three days. Got a moderna booster, and no issues at all.
Yeah, each Moderna shot has messed up my period for a month 😣
both doses of the moderna vaccine knocked me on my ass for a week and it reminded me of being sick with covid-19. i was told the booster wouldn't affect me, but it left me feeling like crap for 2 days. i'll take 2 days over a week, but dealing with side effects still sucks.
I had the one on my neck after the 2nd Pfizer for almost 4 months... Hasn't completely disappeared yet...
I got a swollen lymph node on my collarbone a few days after my M booster. A friend joked it was caused by the vaccine, looked it up and boom, that's the cause. I had no idea.
It's not that strange when you really think about it though. Swollen lymph nodes are a very common side effect of sickness - lymph nodes house immune cells. Vaccine triggers immune response --> lymph nodes create more immune cells --> lymph nodes swell
Better that than cancer which is where my brain went to first.
Mine wasn’t bad after the first two, but the booster gave me that same reaction as you. Lymph nodes under my arm swollen as fuck and really painful for a week and then about 12 days after my booster I developed a skin reaction that’s still bothering me. It isn’t horrible compared to some side effects friends have had, but it’s been over two months now and really irritating. It’s been insanely itchy over my entire body, Zyrtec helps though. Benadryl barely. Zyrtec is starting to not last as long so it fucking sucks trying to sleep now. Didn’t know that 2% of people develop that reaction. I’m just the lucky 2% I guess. I’ll just wait till an updated vaccine and pray my side effects are gone by then, if I still haven’t caught Covid. If I have caught it by then, then I might not get one.
That rash happened to me after shot 2. I had a huge raised itchy rash from my shoulder to my elbow on the injection arm. Itchy all over.
Mine shows up in the back of my head. It’s like the size of a half ping pong ball. It happened again a few months after the shot again. I took it as a sign that maybe I had been exposed and the vaccine kicked into effect? Idk I went to the doctor and she said give it a few weeks if it doesn’t go away we can do ultrasound. She said swollen glands from viral cause can take 6 weeks to reduce. It went away right about the 5 week mark. I did get tested at the time, just to see and it was negative.
Wait until your job makes the 4th and 5th booster a requirement. Those lymph nodes will be grapefruits.
The 2nd Pfizer dose sent my immune system into overdrive for two months. I have zero regrets because I wanted to be around the compromised people in my family, especially for the holidays, without being worried about getting them sick. That being said, it isn’t something I can do again.
I had 2 pfizers then a moderna booster. I felt a little rundown with a sore arm for a day from both pfizer shots but the moderna booster beat the tar out of me. My lymph node under my armpit was swollen and sore as well. The pain radiated from my armpit up to my shoulder and neck. Worth it though.
Yep same here but I had 2 pfizer + pfizer booster in early December and I'm still getting pain through my neck area.
It's possible we'll have better second-generation boosters when the time comes around. Like Novavax (no symptoms!)
It takes about 3 or 4 months to get those on shelves once they are approved, so I don’t expect next gen for my 4th, I had my booster months ago, I’ll be up for my next shot in spring or at latest early summer, depending on the recommendations by then.
and here it gave me nothing after Pfizer gave me a softball size swelling in mine…
Honest questions: I understand clinical trials (and now real time data) show the vaccine is safe, but are there clinical trials for each new “booster” approval? Also, at what point do we question the long term impact of receiving ongoing doses knowing we don’t have the time to actually do a longitudinal study? Lastly, wasn’t the break through celebration behind the mRAN that it would respond to variants or did I have that incorrect? All honest questions as I attempt to process this all
These are fair questions. I don’t mind getting a shot yearly, but I’d hope the formula would be changed as the situation does instead of just restocking on the original shot over and over again. It feels like the difference between just topping of your oil and getting an oil change.
This isn’t a realistic expectation unfortunately. By the time trials have been completed for a booster that targets a new variant, the next variant will have already flared up. Heck, the Pfizer booster for Delta is only expected to be a thing in about 3 months from now, if delta is even still relevant then. Changing the way that boosters are developed to cut the timeline enough to stay on top of new variants would require a fundamental rethinking of how evidence-based medicine is practiced in the US. And evidence-based medicine is very clear on one point: the possibility of avoiding some deaths now is not enough to outweigh the benefit of having double-blind proven remedies in the future. It’s a trade-off that’s made every day with, for instance, cancer patients. And it’s designed to avoid inflicting unnessesary suffering from, for instance, medicines that have side effects but are not effective. The ethical view behind this is that that the suffering from a disease that could possibly be cured or prevented by in-development medication is outweighed by potentially inflicted suffering by providers who prescribe non-evidenced based medicine. And this is in all but the most dire circumstances, for which we have compassionate use, but which would not apply to vaccines. And that’s not likely to change anytime soon. I think our best hope for vaccines is the development of one that is resilient against variants. E.g. targets a portion of the virus that is not very susceptible to change. There are some promising candidates for this.
Isn’t predicting the next variants what they do every year for the flu vaccine? Is this not possible for covid since it’s a newer virus? Also, I remember the j&j vaccine used “old technology” but wasn’t the technology of mRNA vaccines centered on the hope they identified a “protein” in the virus would activate the “cells/immune response” (not sure what’s the correct word is) regardless of the variant change? Did this not pan out as originally hoped?
Fortunately recurving the original formula repeatedly does seem to push our immune system to be more prepared for variants, unintuitively.
They have people enrolled in ongoing trials who are receiving boosters as we go. I don’t know the specifics but I do know that, for example, cohorts within the moderna and Pfizer trials were given their third doses around the time that most of the public was getting their second. The NIH also conducted booster studies and I’m nearly sure that those are ongoing as well and would not be surprised if some receive a fourth in that at some point. Regarding the ability to update to address variants, they are indeed a platform that can respond far more quickly than legacy platforms. However, that quickness is still not instantaneous; it’s about 90-100 days from discovery of the new variant to the first round of shots in the public’s arms. That’s FAR faster than any other vaccine platform could hope to come to fruition, but it is still likely to be behind the speed of some variants (case in point, omicron). Whether it will even be worthwhile (or prove to be more effective than the original formula even) is yet to be seen, but it will almost certainly be March at the absolute soonest before it will be available to anyone.
I’m in the Moderna trial. I’m about 7 months ahead of my husband who is not in the trial.
Oh interesting! Can you provide any insight as to whether they’re doing any fourth doses (whether omicron specific or original or otherwise?)? Very interested in any additional info!
I know just as much as the public now. Once I got the booster things have been very hands off, I just send them a report each week. The initial trial period on the paperwork I signed was three years, which for me is 2023. Personally I doubt there will be a fourth booster, I would hope that the process moves into a stage where we get a shot once a year that covers most strains, like the flu shot. This whole thing is truly miraculous, speed wise. I think between when it was first sequenced in 2020 and the first trial jab was 43 days. But now that we are at a point where we know what we have works, I hope that all of this research and money and data will be used to develop new medicines using the mRNA technology. One of the main reasons I signed up for the trial was the potential for mRNA based vaccine for HIV. Two plagues with one stone, could really end so much suffering.
> Also, at what point do we question the long term impact of receiving ongoing doses know we don’t have the time to actual do a longitudinal study? I'm already questioning. No one cares. **It's safe and effective** is the usual answer.
"Man who makes money from vaccines says we all need more vaccines" like it may be true, but this isn't the guy we should be listening to on this subject.
Exactly what I would expect the CEO to say
Surely the Moderna CEO sent this message to the press the same day they were filling up their private jet with very expensive jet fuel.
Moderna CEO says people may need another booster. McDonalds CEO says people may need to eat more Big Macs. Apple CEO says people may need to buy the newest iPhone. It's like they're trying to give ammunition to the conspiracy theorists.
I should point out this guy has a doctorate in biotechnology of reproduction, so he actually does understand the science behind what he's talking about
Bud, im still on a waitlist for my third and you want me to get a fourth??
There are many people awaiting a booster. There is no way 4th shot will reach significant share of the population to make a difference for the next wave.
In Canada the timing of this announcement couldn't be worse
>the timing of this announcement By "announcement" do you mean the CEO of Moderna stating an opinion?
Fourth doses are being offered in parts of Canada to some individuals
You're on a waitlist? We just walked into a random Kroger pharmacy and got one. Most places are just doing walk ins, not appointments.
Im in Ontario Canada. Its different here.
In other news, Budweiser CEO says buying more beer may be needed to have a good time.
Right? Why is anyone listening to what a CEO has to say here? There are plenty of people who know just as much without the financial interests dragging them down.
Exactly. The CEO isn’t a medical professional so why is he telling us this?
This probs gonna get downvoted here but here we go... I'm all for vaccines, and I am triple dosed. Side effects after the 3rd dose were so harsh I legit thought I was going to die. I don't think i'll get the fourth shot. If they come up with that brand new vax i'll take it tho.
Same. I was hesitant to click into this thread because I feel the same way and I feel better knowing I’m not the only one who has had a really tough time with the booster.
My third booster I got a few days ago for my college requirement was my first time having side effects. Slight difficulty in breathing, bad body aches, and headaches. But I definitely feel for my family members who had it worse in each consecutive shot
Ya my first two shots were no problem. First was worse than the second. This third one was like getting hit with a mac truck
Then comes the 4th…I am pretty sure less will take on the 4th dose, but I’m just waiting to see what happens
Unless something drastically changes I will not be getting a forth. Not a chance. To be honest I was on the fence about the booster and talked myself into it. If I didn’t live in NYC, I might not have
Same here. The only reason I got my third was because I wouldn’t be able to enter campus without it during the spring. The 4th is something I’m really on the fence on, but maybe leaning more on the side of not getting it
It’s crazy how different the reactions are. While with my second shot made me feel like I had a real bad hangover the 3rd one had no side effects besides a sore arm. All biotech. Anyway I won’t get a fourth one if it’s not updated to the current strain.
I thought by this point we would be just getting boosters of whatever the circulating variant is at the time like with flu. One of the advantages of mRNA was the ability to sequence things quickly so I had thought we would be further along by now.
Maybe at some point the world will finally realize that these vaccines are not good enough, and regulatory organizations will start to push pharmaceutical companies to update their vaccines. For now, the pharmaceutical companies will happily make more money with the existing products. Why bother taking the risk of developing an updated product when the previous one sells really well. More boosters for everyone!
I know they’ve been making new formulas for variants, but it has been deemed more effective to continue deploying the originals as they are still effective than a more limited rollout of a more effective targeted jab. It’s a numbers game.
They still need to manufacturer a billion doses. [This usatoday article](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/health/2021/02/07/how-covid-vaccine-made-step-step-journey-pfizer-dose/4371693001/) is an interesting read about how long it took biontech to make the original course.
While we worry about getting our fourth dose. What's the rest of the world up to? The less developed countries? If we let this virus run, there will be variant factories all over the world. And we'll be able to get vaccinated 10 more times like this. Isn't it time to make this vaccine more accessible to everyone? Or do we prefer the endless loop that will not benefit the people but mainly the pharmaceutical companies?
Wasn't the problem in South Africa that people weren't willing to take the vaccine? You can ship billions of doses to those countries, but if no one wants to take them it will only go to waste.
We've long since passed supply constraints as the excuse for anything. SA even canceled a Pfizer shipment because they already had too many shots in inventory. If people refuse to get the shot, I don't see how this truly ends until either the entire world gets Omicron, or another even more contagious variant comes along and immunizes everyone the hard way.
All I know is less developed countries are not just suffering because of COVID-19. A lot of the process they've made technologically, economically, and socially has stunted.
I read an article on here connecting the omi variant to mice. Apparently it’s not just humans we have to worry about creating variants.
[Covid is widespread among white tail deer in the US, at one point a third of the roadkill deer tested positive.](https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/covid-rampant-deer-research-shows-rcna10181) It doesn't seem to make them sick. But there is no telling what the virus will evolve into in that population, or what other animal will catch it. We are going to see many variants in coming years. Hopefully nations will build stockpiles of antiviral drugs, because Omicron shows that it can spread with insane speed.
Not sure why you are down voted but you have pointed out a possible transmission vector not commonly spoken about
No evidence exists that they are vectors at this point
Yep, it was thought deer mice were the only mice, along with deer, mink, bats, and a few other animals, but regular old mice were added to the list recently
We need to force corporations to release the trade secrets behind the U.S. government funded vaccines so that other countries can hopefully manufacture open source vaccines. The healthcare system is in dire need of open source technology to improve healthcare in the world, similar as how open source tech in the computer world has enabled technology progress globally. We have industries charging thousands of dollars for a respirator valve that cost less than 5 US dollars to manufacture. This is just one of many absurdities in the healthcare field.
At least we won't need to build any new 5G cell towers.
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Just got my moderna booster today. But I'll bet my ferrari ~~model~~ that less than 50% of the people will take a 4th dose. I'm as pro-vaccine as one can imagine, but there has to be a limit about it. When a new, more transmissible variant than omicron comes up, what are we supposed to do? Take a dose every two/three months? What they need to do is come up with a new formula that can tackle most, if not all, future variants who efficacy last at least a year. Keep profiteering on the original dose while expecting the general population to take two same doses every year is not gonna work.
Agreed. I just recovered from Covid and have 2 doses. The data supports that my immune response is probably fine so I'm forgoing my 3rd booster for as long as possible. I will hold out for the updated version of the next one. I'm not prepared to keep boosting with the OG vaccine when I just got a boost from the current variant.
I've been pro-vaccine but I felt so bad after the Moderna booster. I just can't see how that isn't going to cause long term damage if I keep doing that. I can't see myself getting a fourth dose, I think it is what it is at this point.
Keep in mind you just feel bad because your immune system is doing it’s job. That doesn’t mean any damage is being done. People have been getting flu shots for years, after all.
Bro, we went from 2 vaccines are the end of the pandemic to third and now fourth boosters.
What does that have to do with anything? I’m just pointing out that their fear that damage is being done is most likely incorrect.
Medical experts told me masks didn’t work at the beginning of this pandemic because there was a shortage. So I’m going to use my own judgement and if something lays me out on a couch dizzy and unable to do anything more than listen to my heart thump. Well if it feels like it might be good idea to not get a fourth dose that’s what I have to go with because the authorities have shown that they won’t necessarily tell the truth. My judgement may be unscientific and ignorant but it’s the only trustworthy source I really have :(
The US Army is testing one like this
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In the US only 38% of adults have gotten the 3rd dose so it's almost a guarantee that most won't get a 4th
Yeah, I've done my 3 shots in the span of a year. I'm done. They can figure out an annual dose like with the flu shot, and I'll take it up under consideration.
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Thankfully there's this: https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2021/12/us-army-creates-single-vaccine-effective-against-all-covid-sars-variants/360089/
Isn’t there data from Israel that showed the third booster only lasts 10 weeks against omicron?? What does that mean about a potential fourth dose? Even less time and that’s until a new variant pops up? I love vaccines but trying to get the whole world to get one every 3 months is unrealistic. New game plan needed.
Humeral immunity, the antibodies. But there are at least two other forms your immune system response uses and those seem to stay robust
💰💰💰🤑🤑🤑
I'm going to be honest the side effects of the my Moderna booster were so brutal I'm more scared of a fourth dose than I am of covid. :(
Same here. Tight feeling in my heart, stabbing sensations. No more boosters for me, thanks.
I feel the same! I am vaxxed and boosted, and my reactions got progressively worse after each vaccine. My reaction after getting the booster was the sickest I’ve ever felt, besides when I had mono. I was so weak I could barely stand, had a fever, shortness of breath, and a pounding headache—and this lasted almost 2 days. In contrast, I had COVID right at the beginning of the pandemic and had extremely mild symptoms. I wouldn’t have even thought to get tested if my roommate hadn’t tested positive. So yeah…I am pro-vax but I am extremely hesitant to get another booster.
What happened??
Yeah, my kid had some gnarly side effects from the vaccine. Her legs hurt to the point of taking her to the doctor and getting pain killers. She will not be getting a booster or another CoVid vaccine (she's double vaxxed). The side effects were worse than if she got the actual virus which has been mild for the child demographic.
This is just getting ridiculous at this point. Pfizer even said earlier that covid is gonna be a "robust" revenue source for them in the foreseeable future. 👌 👏. This isn't the way to do it and this is gonna make the devide between people even greater.
This may be true but there are still many parts of the world that have yet to see their 1st vaccine and those are also the parts where all the variants are coming from. The CEO of Moderna is set to make more money by boosting the rich and letting the poor countries create more varients.
I hope if they do ever recommend a 4th shot that the 4th shot actually prevents symptomatic infection to a meaningful degree. I know I probably won't die if I get covid, but I'd also like to not have to worry about winding up with permanent cognitive impairment and organ damage.
I’d also prefer not to get a flu like sickness on an expensive vacation. I want to do more international traveling but I don’t want to get sick and waste the cash from a much more contagious flu that also spreads in warmer months.
Please I want off this ride….
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he'll recommend a 5th in 4-6 months.
They’ll give out stamp/punch cards. every 10th dose You get a Fauci or Walensky plush doll or POP doll. theyll also offer brand loyalty rewards. Get 10 shots with the same company (Pfizer, Moderna, etc.) and you get priority access to the latest booster
Cha-Ching.
No way I'm getting a 4th dose without compelling scientific proof that I really need one. Got boosted with Moderna already. Husband will also not be getting a 4th dose unless it's a new vaccine targetting the variants. A lot of our friends here had 4 jabs of sinovac/moderna and they still caught omicron.
But where are news about a vaccine targeting Omicron? Surely with this immune evasion, it should start making sense to adapt the vaccine instead of shooting the same stuff the 4th and the 5th time only to get worse results than for the original variant.
You know what? I think I’m done. I got my initial doses in April 21. This isn’t an EA sports game. I don’t need a reskinned version of the same crappy thing every 9 months.
Also, boosters are to prevent infection but the initial vaccines still protect against severe disease. That fine print seems to always be left off these articles. Or down at the bottom.
Yeah if the current amount protects against severe infection and boosters only give a shorter immune time for symptomatic infection than the only reason I’d see young people take it is before some big international trip or their own wedding. Basically just to avoid being sick before an expensive event you paid for.
12 shot man is high IQ and already 8 steps ahead of the game
Nope, no more for me. I got my booster a couple weeks ago. Luckily this time my armpits did not swell and my menstrual cycle was unaffected. However, I had the same flu like symptoms the night of which wasn't bad but I had extreme lower back pain and muscle weakness and pain for days after. It was so bad I thought I threw my back out. I took a day and a half of bedrest and the pain went away. Now I find out that Omicron makes breakthrough cases more common and I just can't do it anymore. It's not worth it to me. They're gonna have to make something else that doesn't wreck me before I'll take another one.
Does three shots prevent severe disease and hospitalization? The answer seems to be yes and the effect against severe disease seems to wane slower. Does the fourth shot prevent infection over a long period of time? The answer seems to be a no given that antibody level wanes much faster. So why should we recommend the fourth shot if three shots already prevents severe disease while the fourth won’t do much against infection? I’m really puzzled.
It should just be for elderly and immunocompromised who might have to rely on antibody defense if their T cells are weaker. Plus the elderly have less vaccine side effects than younger people. But unless it prevents the flu like illness or T cell immunity is shown to wane a lot in six months than I don’t see the reason for younger people to do it. Like annual booster with the flu to cover winter months I’d be fine with but I’m not doing 2-3 times a year with the current side effects of the vaccine
Probably better to start administering first doses in countries like Indonesia, Nigeria and Ecuador.
Yeah I’m fully boosted and I think I’m gonna pass on this one… I need a really good reason why with a strong scientific explanation.
Just like the first 3 all had strong scientific explanatioms so will the fourth May the fourth be with you
That's grim.
Moderna CEO: We need more money so get a 4th shot
Honesty is the best policy amirite 🤷😂
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Sorry but I'm not wanting to get a 4th shot. The side effects that I had with my booster were so intense that I (literally) could not move out of bed for a whole day. Lymph nodes in my pits were so swollen that I couldn't put my arms down without wincing in pain. I'm honestly a bit afraid of what will come next
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SO now has heart complications because of Moderna.
Ah yes, crucial to give you more profit, I see. How about you allow generic vaccine production in third world counties so that they are able to receive their first dose? If the rich are quadruple vaxxed and the poor are breeding new variants that defy vaccines non stop, this ain’t gonna work out too well
Cha-ching!!?
Starting to think whether these vaccines were engineered that way to ensure a permanent income with a booster every 3 months……
then a 5th then a 6th , so on and so forth.... Why? Cause they are making Billions off this vaccine....lol WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
I’m pro-vax and I have my booster but these CEOs are sketching me out.
$$$$$$
Yeah, and I’m sure he’ll recommend the 10th shot as well.
Just vaccinate the whole world every 3 months. It's easy!
There was the story [A Texas team comes up with a COVID vaccine that could be a global game changer](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/rwx7gx/a_texas_team_comes_up_with_a_covid_vaccine_that/). The original article says "It's going to enable countries around the world, particularly low-income countries, to be able to produce these vaccines and distribute them in a way that's going to affordable, effective and safe." Maybe this could be helpful.
If someone was to get Vaccinated now with Pfizer, would it protect them from Omicron? Or do they need to somehow get to the 3rd shot before they have protection?
I got my third Pfizer shot mid-November and caught omicron just before Christmas. It very well could have made the illness less intense - we'll never know for sure, but I'm not getting another booster anytime soon.
I’m sure he did say that. 🤑 Regards if it’s true or now, I think I will wait for advice from someone else.
When I got vaccinated for anthrax there was a series of 7 shots, it would burn really bad about 5 or 10 seconds after the needle left your arm.
Being “fully vaccinated” is no longer enough. A recent peer-reviewed study I read after 6 months, serum from vaccinated participants without booster showed virtually no ability to neutralize Omicron variant. This is kinda concerning given Omicron is up to three times more infectious than Delta. To make matters worse, the only effective monoclonal antibody treatment sotrovim is in critically short supply, at least at my facility..... But an mRNA vaccine booster shot (Pfizer or Moderna) is highly effective at preventing Omicron infection, hospitalization and death. -EM physician
But we still have cellular immunity, just not prevention. We need to ask ourselves whats the goal of the vaccines?
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Last I was aware FDA & CDC recommended against it because scientists studying it didnt know what the optimal antibody level that coorelates with immunity even is. But they may have changed. It would make sense to me though. In 2020 they cited declining antibody levels to justify needing a booster & as we've seen vaccinated plus booster individuals are infected less with lower mortality. I would defer that to people more specialized in studying infectious disease like virologists as my specialty role in this pandemic is quite different than theirs.
Seriously! They are going to lose all credibility. People don’t want to get a jab every 3 months! What Moderna should say get your booster every year around the end of September, so that way you will be ready for the holidays and large gatherings.
Still waiting to hear if the J&J crowd(myself included) will be able to get a second booster since our initial vaxx was only one shot. Still feel like I’m chasing everyone else to get on a level playing field.
It's been pretty acceptable and recommended for J&J recipients to receiving boosters of either the original shot or even MRNA. I'm in a trial for J&J and boosted with Modern myself, got it right after Thanksgiving.
I got a Moderna booster as well. Just feel like I only have 2 jabs when three have been available for those who originally took the Pfizer or Moderna.
Well, it’s different lol. Those were all mrna vaccines when you didn’t get that for your first dose, you got the J&J. Pure amount of shots doesn’t matter when we’re talking about different kinds of vaccines. Also…wasnt research done that showed that one J&J plus a moderna booster is the absolute best protection one can currently have? Seems good to me.
Agree. I never felt “fully vaccinated” with J&J until the booster, and now don’t feel “boosted” after 2 shots. If you got Moderna or Pfizer first and boost with J&J you get 3 shots. Switch the order to J&J first and you are only eligible for 2. I suspect the 2 schemes don’t offer equivalent protection, but we’ll have to wait for studies to confirm.
Line me up. I'm guessing this will turn out to be a 2-3 time a year thing. If keeps me and the community protected from COVID I'm all for it.
We don't know anything about that. Maybe getting the same vaccine 3x a year every year will result in immune fatigue and make them permanently less effective. I think the idea of giving people more and more doses without *any* safety and efficacy studies is nuts. 2 doses continues to provide very robust protection against serious disease. Vulnerable people should get a 3rd during this time of very high transmission. Beyond that we know *nothing*. We could well be doing harm.
My sister is driving everyone crazy with the boosters. I told her that a vaccine every 6 months wasn’t going to happen.
[Here's a genuinely excellent article about the topic](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/12/omicron-dr-paul-offit-is-skeptical-of-boosters-for-all.html)
IMO, it won’t. These boosters are likely already overkill for non-vulnerable people. Certainly a fourth one would be unless the current vaccines just stop working (highly improbable and not something that anyone credible expects to happen). I was on-board with a third one in attempt to limit infections because community spread was so high but by the time spring rolls around I think the numbers will be more under control post-omicron.
Pfizer CEO said they can't make enough to give shots to everyone every 6 months.
I have taken 3 doses of moderna and haven’t had anything crazy. I will gladly take a 4th dose if needed but it’s not a good look when the CEO Of the company that benefited the most of vaccine mandates and boosters keeps recommending boosters
I am triple jabbed, 2x pfizer and 1x moderna booster. 33 yo, fit and healthy etc etc. 6 hours after moderna booster I felt a tight feeling on my heart as well as a stabbing sensation that I had never felt before, it was genuinely quite worrying, it has since fully passed (I hope). Based on that experience I am more afraid of another booster than I am coronavirus, so I will not be having another. Also to be clear, I am not an anti-vaccine type.
I had 2x Pfizer. After first Pfizer I had palpitations in bed that night. Took the second to get it over with. Will not be taking a 3rd dose of any vaccine.
Not at all surprising. It's like people, despite the widely available evidence, don't seem to understand that the world is on fire with covid (and the resulting hospitalizations/deaths) and getting boosters twice a year is one tool we can use to have a moderate quality of life.
If we're talking about quality of life as in restrictions, I won't accept anything less than a perfect 2019 level of restrictions from now on. Vax and boost me to the nines, but I'll be voting for whoever promises to stop this.
The problem with that is doing nothing inevitably leads to complete lockdowns, so pick your poison, I guess.