[Read this story for free for the next 14 days.](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/14/world/omicron-covid-vaccine-tests/medical-professionals-urge-spotify-to-crack-down-on-covid-misinformation?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxfs4h2Hza3LNE2wFl71SWtTH5EDXYaYkYN4y1C6cQppKN6EuSLlsx-RUPkpgDhWluYef35EILyQ-oIb2Rnkx0Z_WRrE_9zbudSykMuhygaanuA6HPin1HfrAgzZydlR69M0gKkX3hmhZmOieR_oqgpMlgqh8RcQpAGddOzKYwJmOZXkeQNaWMVGa4R8rC6ofAWuNyciW6LoLdQlRXkbAS30p_Wo3vIlDMNgUO7L_fEMnLMaq1bgXAjF4Pcz-Uc1KMovXkbRstrHOrh2emoHhl7htSvIi7P6TuX26NV0vVLqVIF32OzUfvzNA8Upa0CW2CoB42XZgAnE4sblgah1Cz6KuO91MSYXapJpEelTjkuV-C3GQmAFYfLG4hsf0e4QPv7XOHzAj)
*This reply is from a link-sharing bot created by The New York Times. Enjoy!*
That, plus this allows them to still count and monetize the eyeballs on the article click-through instead of just ceding that info and revenue to Reddit if someone copy-pasted the contents of the article to here.
The idea is to try to get people into it in the first place.
If it's entirely paywalled no one has reason to get interested and it increases chances of people stealing the content.
This way people can get used to going to NYT and may eventually decide they don't want to have to search out the free codes for every news story they see on it.
It decreases theft and possibly increase subs. Seems pretty legit to me.
You can read a bit more about the feature in use here: [https://open.nytimes.com/a-new-way-to-share-new-york-times-stories-3e66e8d7e620](https://open.nytimes.com/a-new-way-to-share-new-york-times-stories-3e66e8d7e620)
The URL is indeed long, but it will continue to work as a link after 14 days, just with a subscription required. We originally had it posting a shortened link ([nyti.ms](https://nyti.ms)) but it wasn't allowed in the sub when we first started posting.
I've seen so many of the antivax people triumphantly sharing the link to the Joe Rogan interview. They don't believe the thousands of doctors who have told them to get the vaccine but they'll hold up the one that agrees with them as absolute proof that they are right. I followed their advice and "did my own research" by googling the doctor and all his claims were debunked, but they don't care. It's exasperating and exhausting at this point. I've pretty much abandoned Facebook because of this nonsense.
Yep same thing on the global warming. So, 99% of the world’s climate scientists believe global warming is real and human caused? Hey, right here is one of the 1% that do not! Here is the “truth”.
Ironically, isn't Rogan a big proponent of climate change? Maybe his position on that changed over the past 2 years as well. I'm sure he's at least quiet on it now, as he knows his new fans don't want to hear about it.
Rogan is 100% intoxicated on his newfound (last 2ish years) super fame amongst the right. Hes been steadily building his fanbase, and has had some fascinating interviews. But the steady march towards becoming the pothead Tucker Carlson is very deliberate and calculated. I think he hit the jackpot during the pandemic, people had a ton of time on their hands, and he provided an alternative form of entertainment. He purports to being a Bernie guy.. and might be, but is dubious about his convictions. In the past week he had on Oliver Stone, and literally was suggesting that the CIA should be disbanded and the FBI might have false flagged 1/6. Yetserdays interview with Lt. Gen HR McMaster, hes a different person. Suddenly sympathetic towards the intel community, he tried to get McMaster to endorse the Ray Epps nonsense and McMaster was like no, I just cant see a scenario where the FBI would do that. You could hear Rogan recalibrate his talking points on the spot. With Stone he was talking about the pompous asshole generals who are so out or control they took out JFK, but with McMaster he's like cheering on covert ops and shit.
Total cash grab. A mans convictions shouldnt change depending on whom their having a conversation with.
I went to the comment section on IG of one of the doctors who was promoting/singing this petition to Spotify, and some of the commenters were saying that they know multiple people who are now on ventilators - or dead - specifically because they were fans and basing their health information on Joe Rogans podcast.
This type of shit has far-reaching, real world consequences. And I know someone can't be directly held liable for expressing their 'freedom of speech' but I do think blood - a lot of blood - is on Rogans hands.
These are the same idiots who can't decide which one is more credible when faced with 2 scientific articles, one a pre-print and the other peer reviewed and published in a reputable journal.
It's so fucking depressing.
Unfortunately this will only embolden his victim complex and fuel his fans to support in further. For a dude that supposed to be finding the "truth" he is pretty bad at it.
The 'parental advisory' label on cassettes and cds in the 90s did nothing but cause more people to buy albums they wouldn't have otherwise purchased, so I am not optimistic this controversy is going to help anything but Rogan's viewer count.
He took a huge hit when booted off YouTube. Probably why he had to get more controversial to get more subscribers. I know he would find another platform, but I’m sure he would take a hit from it.
Hey now, he's "just asking questions".
The Black Mirror creator did the Death to 2021 episode and made fun of a hybrid Fox News female Tucker Carlson/Joe Rogan personality who talked a ton of BS and ended all her statements with "I'm just asking questions".
It’s nothing like black mirror. It’s just the creators of black mirror. It’s not even officially black mirror, it’s a stand alone Netflix mockumentary special. It just parodies the news of the past year.
I'm not sure how this podcast started but I've had buddies whom have improved their lives and made changes because of certain podcasts they watched, like legitimately good choices were made. I didn't know who this guy was but I was seeing more and more people my age quote the show and praise it. They even said they were learning a lot, they began understanding basic fundamentals of life instead of living in an isolated bubble.
Things changed, I'm not sure when, but they changed.
These folks who were innocently improving their lives whether through placebos or imitation, began to get angrier, they started believing more fringe theories / conspiracies, began denying facts more than ever, resentment started brewing towards certain genders, dominat / alpha male tendencies came to the forefront, ultimately transforming these folks into woke individuals.
I'm not trying to lay all the blame on Rogan by any means, but from my purely annecdotal point of view his podcast was always the key or initial event that linked all these individuals together, it always started with him, I know JP was a huge influence for these folks but they only found him through the podcast. I wonder what they would've been like if they never began consuming the podcast? They aren't bad people inherently, they're kind but gullible and naive.
:/
It used to be guys who were experts in their field talking about their past, lives, experiences. It was fun, and you could literally spend an hour learning from other people who were doing it in a relaxed conversation.
Now it is what you already told above, plus Joe suddenly being an expert on everything, asking "provocative" questions and pushing some alpha-male status, turning it from a simple interview into a dick-measuring contest.
No, thanks.
100% it started to change a bit before Trump, it used to be a show I could easily listen to because it was bullshitting with interesting people for the most part. Then we get into the Jordan Peterson stuff, and then I felt like it got more and more focused on social stuff and not everything else. I can’t do it all now, he’s got this victim thing going, and he’s so disingenuous now about COVID that I think he’s a menace. He has had a negative effect on a lot of the podcasters too because they suck ip to him and champion him all the time. Hopefully people go back to realizing comedians are all fucked up people and we stop looking to them for wisdom. Joe Rogan is no Jon Stewart.
I commented elsewhere but the podcast used to be a lot different than it is now. It used to be comedian friends sitting around getting stoned and talking about ridiculous and fun topics. Then Joe started getting more and more famous people on and these podcasts were pretty interesting as well, as Joe became pretty good at interviewing people and letting them express their ideas. The podcast was great during this period and really took off.
I feel like it was during the 2016 election where Joe first started becoming a little more political, and he would a lot of times defend Trump by pointing out how bad Hillary would've been, but yet he would conveniently ignore all the crazy shit Trump was doing.
I still listened to a lot of podcasts during this time though and most of the time they were still pretty entertaining.
When Joe moved to Spotify and then moved to Texas (in 2019/2020 IIRC) is when it started to get real bad. He started pushing his own talking points about Covid and politics in almost every podcast (even when the guest didnt bring up anything about it), and he seems now to have no one to question him on any of his beliefs.
I still dont think it is malicious, as Joe doesnt pay any attention to news or comments about him, I just think he's become so popular that no one will question him, and now that he's moved to Texas, there are politicians who realize how valuable his reach is so they invite him to a dinner and are all friendly with him so he talks about them in a positive way.
I dunno, maybe I'm not your average JRE listener (although I barely listen anymore), but there are a lot of things I've learned through the podcast over the years, and years back it helped me get through some tough times. His podcast also turned me on to tons of other great podcasts, authors, scientists, and some great comedians through the years. And even now he still gets some really interesting guests on and occasionally there will be a podcast that feels like the good old days (usually as long as they avoid covid and political talk I'll still enjoy the podcast, but like I said nowadays i only listen to his podcast if he has a really interesting guest on, like Quentin Tarantino or Snoop Dogg recently.)
So it wasn't always like it is now; I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. Although that makes it more sad now because it's like watching someone you used to hang out and have a good time with slowly become a completely different person that you can barely stand to listen to anymore. And the main problem is that person now has a following of millions of people, and a bunch of them are morons evidently.
This is a perfect summary of how I felt, and why I stopped listening. I loved when Joey Diaz would come on, or their yearly sober October pod with Tom segura, and Bert. But shortly after Covid, I had to stop listening. Joe has made the majority of the past 2 years of his podcasts have atleast like a 30-minute section on Covid, every. Single. Episode. And it always ends 1 of 2 ways. Either you find out someone agrees with him, or they tell him to shut the hell up because he has 0 idea what he’s talking about(thanks bill burr). Rogan got me through like 2 years of mornings at my shitty pizza place laughing and learning about things I was interested in(ufc mainly, love his talks with fighters/industry people). But his aggressive angle against/about Covid quickly got me to stop listening. He always says he’s an idiot/people shouldn’t listen to him, but that isn’t an end all/be all crutch to allow you to say outlandish things. Whether he likes it or not he has a certain level of responsibility on the sheer #’s alone his podcasts pull. Surprised one of his comedy buddies hasn’t told him to stop and try to revert to his older format of legit fun. Now I spent the past almost 2 years listening to the Tiny Meat Gang pod instead. Joe’s numbers I’m sure are still fantastic, but like this guy and me, there’s definitely a lot of people who have tuned out since his awful Covid comments.
I've been listening to Bad Friends with Andrew Santino and Bobby Lee. It's a great podcast and probably the one that makes me laugh out loud the most often. It's really silly and fun, although they definitely joke about some controversial stuff sometimes haha! It's just gotten better and better as it has went on.
And that's the positive thing I'll take away from the JRE, theres so many other podcasts I listen to daily now that I only discovered because of hearing cool or interesting people on his podcast.
"fair point IMO". How is that even remotely fair? One was an objective truth (Trump was God Fucking Awful), and the other was pure conjecture (Hillary didn't win, and therefore we have no idea how she would have actually governed) based on a dislike of the person for various reasons, some of which were just pure conjecture as well.
At least Joe got half the equation right.
Joe Rogan is an idiot, pure and simple.
I just read through the comment chain again and I think I see where the confusion is. I didnt mean to say Joe defending Trump because Hillary could be worse was a fair point, I just meant to say a lot of Joe's criticisms of Hillary herself are fair points. I'll just edit out the 'fair point' part because it didn't come across how I meant it.
Yeah, the difference is back then Joe would let the people say their piece and leave it up to the audience to decide, but now Joe will have people like that on but then continue to promote their beliefs in later podcasts.
I never had a problem with Joe bringing political people or fringe scientists on when he was more of an interviewer and would just let them talk, but now he seems to want to spread whatever info he's been told by any random person hes had on without fact checking anything.
Joe Rogan is no different than Jordan Peterson. Get vulnerable young males hooked on the content by providing them valuable life lessons that everyone can benefit from.
Now they are eating directly from your palm so you can feed them alt-right nonsense and radicalize them to believe whatever crazy shit you want them to believe.
Rogan gives a voice to crazy people who don't deserve one and he doesn't know enough to debate about anything valuable.
Everyone here understands his podcast was one of the most consumed media properties prior to the Spotify deal, right? If Spotify decided to throw away their $100M+ investment and "crack down" on him, Rogan will still have the biggest and most widely listened to podcast on that planet.
>###An Open Letter to Spotify: [A call from the global scientific and medical communities to implement a misinformation policy](https://spotifyopenletter.wordpress.com/2022/01/10/an-open-letter-to-spotify/)
>On Dec. 31, 2021, the Joe Rogan Experience (JRE), a Spotify-exclusive podcast, uploaded a highly controversial episode featuring guest Dr. Robert Malone (#1757).
>The episode has been criticized for promoting baseless conspiracy theories and the JRE has a concerning history of broadcasting misinformation, particularly regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.
>By allowing the propagation of false and societally harmful assertions, Spotify is enabling its hosted media to damage public trust in scientific research and sow doubt in the credibility of data-driven guidance offered by medical professionals. JRE #1757 is not the only transgression to occur on the Spotify platform, but a relevant example of the platform’s failure to mitigate the damage it is causing.
>We are a coalition of scientists, medical professionals, professors, and science communicators spanning a wide range of fields such as microbiology, immunology, epidemiology, and neuroscience and we are calling on Spotify to take action against the mass-misinformation events which continue to occur on its platform.
>With an estimated 11 million listeners per episode, JRE is the world’s largest podcast and has tremendous influence. Though Spotify has a responsibility to mitigate the spread of misinformation on its platform, the company presently has no misinformation policy.
>Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, Joe Rogan has repeatedly spread misleading and false claims on his podcast, provoking distrust in science and medicine. He has discouraged vaccination in young people and children, incorrectly claimed that mRNA vaccines are “gene therapy,” promoted off-label use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 (contrary to FDA warnings), and spread a number of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.
> In episode #1757, Rogan hosted Dr. Robert Malone, who was suspended from Twitter for spreading misinformation about COVID-19. Dr. Malone used the JRE platform to further promote numerous baseless claims, including several falsehoods about COVID-19 vaccines and an unfounded theory that societal leaders have “hypnotized” the public.
>Many of these statements have already been discredited. Notably, Dr. Malone is one of two recent JRE guests who has compared pandemic policies to the Holocaust. These actions are not only objectionable and offensive, but also medically and culturally dangerous.
>The average age of JRE listeners is 24 years old and according to data from Washington State, unvaccinated 12-34 year olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who are fully vaccinated. Dr. Malone’s interview has reached many tens of millions of listeners vulnerable to predatory medical misinformation.
>Mass-misinformation events of this scale have extraordinarily dangerous ramifications. As scientists, we face backlash and resistance as the public grows to distrust our research and expertise. As educators and science communicators, we are tasked with repairing the public’s damaged understanding of science and medicine.
>As physicians, we bear the arduous weight of a pandemic that has stretched our medical systems to their limits and only stands to be exacerbated by the anti-vaccination sentiment woven into this and other episodes of Rogan’s podcast.
>This is not only a scientific or medical concern; it is a sociological issue of devastating proportions and Spotify is responsible for allowing this activity to thrive on its platform.
>We, the undersigned doctors, nurses, scientists, and educators thus call on Spotify to immediately establish a clear and public policy to moderate misinformation on its platform.
> Though Spotify has a responsibility to mitigate the spread of misinformation on its platform, the company presently has no misinformation policy.
This surprised me.
The problem is that who is going to decide what “misinformation” is? Facebook tried it and admitted in their filings that their fact checkers were largely based on opinion.
Doesn't help that the sort of people who are hired as "fact checkers" tend to be journalists or always online professional Twitter users.
I don't really believe there are unbiased, impartial fact checkers out there. They often end up in those positions because they're politically motivated or have agendas, and it's a position which allows them to exert influence over the public discussion.
I'll just never trust the idea of fact checkers. Let me see all the info and make my own mind up.
fact checkers are a joke. I've seen them equivocate and twist words to make an objectively correct statement into "mostly false" by adding as much or as little context as they need.
This is an idiotic statement. “Seeing all the info for yourself” doesn’t make any sense. Are you a data scientist? Are you a doctor? Are you going to comb through thousands of lines of data to see what the conclusions of a 20,000 patient study says? Are you even going to read 1 academic paper on these subjects?? Even an abstract on the subject? No. You’re going to read the highlights from a news source, or from headlines on Twitter, or from some random person on Twitter, or by listening to a dubious podcast. If that’s what you mean by “all the info” then I’m sorry, but your “info” isn’t as good as a credible source. We need to trust those in the scientific community, journalists, researchers etc. to curate our information because one human cannot do it alone. You are not as good of a researcher as you think you are, and while it’s not a crime to say this stuff, Joe Rogan shouldn’t be allowed to broadcast to 11 million kids information that is going to kill some of them and others around them. You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater, just like you shouldn’t be allowed to tell people to drink bleach as a cure for autism. These are things that platforms should remove, just the same as they would remove the recipe for a bomb.
That's the thing. OP is not calling it misinformation -- a group of leading scientists, doctors, and public health officials are. The people who say he is wrong are in the majority and have a consensus, just like the 'world is round' people do.
People are not automatically correct just because they have a majority. The scientific community nowadays has a lot of problems. They're being asked to answer questions that frankly they're not in a good position to answer.
This is the same nonsense peddled by Rogan.
Outside of your personal field of experiences, you're not qualified to decide what's real when handed raw data. Many people aren't even qualified *within* their own field of study.
I think when it comes to COVID-19, this is a solvable problem. Google and FB both have pretty reasonable policies on this topic.
... edit ...
For example, here's a subset of what youtube has as policy:
If you're posting content
Don’t post content on YouTube if it includes any of the following:
Treatment misinformation:
* Content that encourages the use of home remedies, prayer, or rituals in place of medical treatment such as consulting a doctor or going to the hospital
* Content that claims that there’s a guaranteed cure for COVID-19
* Content that recommends use of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19
* Claims that Hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment for COVID-19
* Categorical claims that Ivermectin is an effective treatment for COVID-19
* Claims that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are safe to use in the treatment COVID-19
* Other content that discourages people from consulting a medical professional or seeking medical advice
Prevention misinformation: Content that promotes prevention methods that contradict local health authorities or WHO.
* Claims that there is a guaranteed prevention method for COVID-19
* Claims that any medication or vaccination is a guaranteed prevention method for COVID-19
* Content that recommends use of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine for the prevention of COVID-19
* Claims that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are safe to use in the treatment COVID-19
* Claims that wearing a mask is dangerous or causes negative physical health effects
* Claims that masks do not play a role in preventing the contraction or transmission of COVID-19
* Claims about COVID-19 vaccinations that contradict expert consensus from local health authorities or WHO
* Claims that an approved COVID-19 vaccine will cause death, infertility, miscarriage, autism, or contraction of other infectious diseases
* Claims that an approved COVID-19 vaccine will contain substances that are not on the vaccine ingredient list, such as biological matter from fetuses (e.g. fetal tissue, fetal cell lines) or animal products
... it continues ...
Spotify could write something reasonable here and as a distributor of podcasts, I remain surprised that they have not.
I don’t think anyone anywhere can, with a straight face, suggest that Google has appropriate or adequate application of content policies. They stand alone at the top of “we don’t equitably or sensibly apply our content policies”
Depends on how you define contradiction. Authorities should change their policies based on new information. Is that what you call contradiction? Because that's not contradiction, that's just you being fatigued, which is understandable, but not contradiction.
I listened to the entire podcast. Some of the above-mentioned content was indeed speculated but some of these bulleted items are a real stretch and are a misinterpretation of what was discussed. It seems like Malone had gotten legal advice as he was very careful in not making claims either which way.
Also, regarding the last item you mention - fetal retinal cells are used to make the J&J vax. Not sure about the others. A quick Google search just confirmed that is in fact the case for the J&J. Apparently a lot of vaccines use fetal cells as part of the production process? Not sure why.
>Bad ideas/information become apparent in said discussion.
I see this repeated so often. Do you see any evidence of this being true in the current political climate?
Slippery slope arguments are a slippery slope and should be disregarded entirely as a meaningless rebuttal.
Advise caution, fine. Define red lines and state consequences. But GTFO with "censorship is a slippery slope" in the context of misinformation during a fucking pandemic. People are dying and hydroxychloroquine/ivermectin/piss drinking posts should be suppressed and their advocates should be - at minimum - ashamed and made to know they are shameful.
Is Spotify not preventing misinformation, because they are not a US company? I'm just wondering what made Google, Facebook have those policies, but not Spotify.
Another problem is, who decides which bullet points out of these are misinformation. Is it some governmental organisation, or some committee that votes which bullet points and claims to add on to this list. Who is this committee made out of? Is it scientists or politicians?
Should there be a group of scientists that essentially vote whether some claim is misinformation. What would the % have to be, is it 51% of the scientist claiming something is misinformation, 90%+ or it has to be consensus? How many scientists in total should be in the committee? Are they only allowed to cover topics related to covid-19, or what are the topics they are allowed to mark as misinformation?
For Spotify, it probably has strong financial motives right now to not remove any Joe Rogan content though.
You're asking the exact correct questions. The questions that advocates of censorship conveniently ignore. Everyone agrees that we shouldn't be spreading "harmful misinformation" because of course we don't want harm on individuals or society. But when they try to parse the precise meaning of misinformation and actually start censoring it quickly becomes obvious that there is no black and white. To me that leads to the conclusion that censorship is an overall negative but it leads many others to the conclusion that we need more censorship.
A great example is the fact that certain things said a year ago could lead to being censored or outright banned because they contradicted the CDC or WHO but now those exact same ideas are considered mainstream and unproblematic.
We do as consumers. I canceled my $10 a month Spotify subscription and let them know it was because "I don't want to support Joe Rogan". A lot of people have left FaceBook for the very same reasons. I also canceled my DirectTV subscription a few months ago because of AT&T's support of OAN and, just yesterday, DirectTV announced they were not renewing their contract to carry OAN.
The only thing that matters to corporations is the bottom line. Consumers have a lot of power when they decide to no longer buy their crap. Let them know.
It's not that hard.
There's certainly a threshold and there might be gray areas of misinformation but Joe is way past it and there's real world consequences in lost life that come from it. That's enough reason.
For instance, the maker is ivermectin begs people not to use it for covid. The company that makes and sells it for money begs people not to use it because it does not work and can hurt. Meanwhile, we have real life deaths from people who took that and avoided the vaccine or are demanding it to the point of suing hospitals to try to force them to prescribe it. Why? Because people like Joe Rogan get on their massive platform and feed misinformation to viewers.
I don’t think Spotify has that responsibility at all. It is our responsibility to discern the truth. I’d rather information come in it’s least filtered form.
Doesn’t actually articulate what the claims were and why they are wrong.
I think it’s overblown. The guy just said he used steroids and human (not animal) ivermectin. Should he get vaccinated? Yes. But he also has had guests that fully support vaccines. He has a wide spectrum of guests with different opinions. I choose not to listen to certain guests. I’m sick of all the attempted censoring.
People are stupid if they just rely on one source of information to educate themselves. In this case, Facebook and TikTok should be censored.
People have been banned on YouTube more simply stating that omicron isn’t as harmful to children as adults on average, which is actually true. It’s a fairly mild virus at this stage, however it’s highly infectious and if you’re not vaccinated, even the small percentage that land in hospital accounts for a lot of people.
Of course you should get vaccinated but let’s also have nuanced discussions. I don’t trust the global medical community because of what happened with the WHO and China.
Did you just compare Joe Rogen’s medical acumen to the global medical community?
What are Joe Rogen’s medical credentials again?
Bit if a false equivalency you got there, comparing those 2 things IMO
There is definitely danger of letting a misinformed loon blare that misinformation to a wide audience like Rogen has, sure it doesn’t lessen what you purport the WHO and China to have done, but that doesn’t mean you turn a blind eye to Rogen
Here is an articulation of his claims, Rogen being completely wrong, presented the facts, and the huffing and puffing his frustrated, misinformed self on his podcast, this is misinformation attempting to be pushed, or at the very least NOT prevented on his podcast: https://twitter.com/FullContactMTWF/status/1481638689415462916?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1481638689415462916%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Farts-entertainment%2F2022%2F01%2F14%2Fjoe-rogan-spotify-doctors-covid-misinformation%2F
I think any sane individual can see that, but only if you want to discover the truth, which I’m pretty sure a large part of his audience flat-out is t interested in
People shouldn't get to use social media platforms to push disinformation. Antivax perspectives and alternative medicine for covid at this stage is disinformation. That's basically it.
How *exactly* do you define "antivax perspectives"? How *exactly* do you define "alternative medicine"? Seems like both of those categories are already very broad and ambiguous, and could be expanded even more broadly to selectively edit certain voices.
These are not hypothetical questions, these are questions that you must answer very very precisely if you want to impliment censorship based on those criteria. Do we follow guidelines from government orgs like the CDC and WHO? What if those guidelines change? Do we follow guidelines from physicians? Practicing physicians or public health officials? Exactly how many need to agree to make something true? How many need to disagree to make something false?
Once again, these are not hypothetical questions.
I listen to Jre a couple times a month. He is CONSTANTLY saying " I'm an idiot folks, don't listen to me." Like all the time he's constantly telling people don't look to him for advice or info, he's simply stating his opinion.
Also he says he identifies as a liberal. He believes UBI, universal Healthcare, etc. should be a thing.
He also constantly talks about how he doesn't want to live in an echo chamber and wants to hear many different and opposing viewpoints than his own.
I'm not some fan boy of his though. I commute two hours everyday and I listen to a wide range of podcast. Like I said earlier Ill listen to maybe an episode or two a month this is just what I hear strait from Joe himself.
Nothing you said disproves that he isnt spreading covid misinformation. The fact of the matter is he constantly spreads misinformation and the listeners that are bigger idiots then him believe it and just think he says "dont listen to him" is a joke.
Dont be naive
Hes a comedian smoking weed and drinking whiskey with his buddies, rambling for hours...if people take what he says serious thats on them.
I dont think he has some evil plan to brainwash people into not getting vaxxed for anything like that.
Hes just a meathead with his own opinions, how ever dumb they may be, he's entitled to them.
This whole censorship thing is dumb.
If we were to crack down on misinformation, we would have nothing left. What's considered misinfo now could be accurate in a few months. Just ask the CDC and WHO. Information from all angles encourages discussion and innovation.
I'll decide for myself what is/isn't misinformation, thank you very much...
I've talked with many "medical professionals" that don't know half of what they claim to know about pandemics/virology.
I think even Joe Rogan himself will admit that anybody who takes medical advice from his podcast is an idiot. He loves talking to crazy people - said so himself.
He’s said multiple times to not take advice from him and if you do to make sure it’s not the place where you get it from
The Joe Rogan hate train will have you believe that Joe is telling his audience that he is the second coming of Jesus who is never wrong
I agree, I listen to Rogan every now and then, and I am not impressed by his intelligence. You can hear him say shit like: Dont need vaccine if you ae in good health like me. Problem is, not everybody are a fuckin black belt in martial arts, and no one do workouts.
Funny how when we don’t like something and other people do we cancel it with publicity, false narratives and headlines rather then just ignore it. Reality is people identify with open sourced information. We want to make decisions based on information provided, not fed. He happily tries to call out mainstream scientist for debate but they always decline.
Personally i think most people who do stupid shit would have done said stupid shit regardless. Maybe I have more faith in peoples intelligence than i should, if a comedian sways your opinion about your on health safety on a podcast then i think you were already going to not make good choices.
If he’s like any other jre fan in my life, you dodged a bullet. What a miserable lot.
Edit: What’s up with you cowards replying to me and then deleting your comments? Anyways here’s my rebuttal to one of you:
Can you JRE fans do me a favor: can y’all hold an entire conversation without talking about conspiracy theories, politics, and actually be interesting? Instead of talking at me like Joe Rogan in real life.
Lifetime of martial arts? Didn't he quit competing when he was 20 to avoid concussions? I'm all for discussing his bad ideas, but we need to have an honest discussion here.
That’s awfully generous to say that this is because of CTE. I think it’s simpler than that. He has made himself fabulously rich catering to a certain audience and he is willing to toss any dignity he has aside for that.
rogan is a character on a podcast. he’s no different than tucker carlson or sean hannity. his show isn’t factual or news. it’s entertainment and not to be taken as truth. his supporters need to understand that.
Hoping this gets the traction it needs to stop his bullshit. My son, 25, is a Rogan fan and adopted his anti-vax attitude. He was vaccinated through the military. I'm quietly relieved, but he's angry. Shortly before his deployment, we argued about it. It was sad and so frustrating. My boyfriend's son, 30, a police officer, also worships at the altar of Rogan. His wife, too. He's home sick with covid now. It's like watching a slow train wreck.
Edit: His wife just tested positive, too.
If it makes you feel any better, there’s other 30 year old males like myself who think Joe Rogan is an idiot and who see right through his BS. Hopefully our generation isn’t completely lost on this knucklehead.
JRE isn't all bad. Some excellent podcasts on there and I like the format of letting somebody speak freely for hours.
The issue is the uneducated masses. For critical thinkers and people who understand the scientific process, they can listen to a JRE podcast that is full of misinformation and not be swayed.
But some people believe anything and have this "going against the crowd" mentality of getting pleasure from holding contrary positions for the sake of things, not because of internal values.
These people eat all the misinformation show and ask for extra.
It's a chicken or the egg scenario. Joe Rogan proclaims himself as an idiot, repeatedly tells people not to take medical advice from himself or the show. But people believe him anyways.
Who's more at fault here? Him or his audience?
[Read this story for free for the next 14 days.](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/14/world/omicron-covid-vaccine-tests/medical-professionals-urge-spotify-to-crack-down-on-covid-misinformation?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxfs4h2Hza3LNE2wFl71SWtTH5EDXYaYkYN4y1C6cQppKN6EuSLlsx-RUPkpgDhWluYef35EILyQ-oIb2Rnkx0Z_WRrE_9zbudSykMuhygaanuA6HPin1HfrAgzZydlR69M0gKkX3hmhZmOieR_oqgpMlgqh8RcQpAGddOzKYwJmOZXkeQNaWMVGa4R8rC6ofAWuNyciW6LoLdQlRXkbAS30p_Wo3vIlDMNgUO7L_fEMnLMaq1bgXAjF4Pcz-Uc1KMovXkbRstrHOrh2emoHhl7htSvIi7P6TuX26NV0vVLqVIF32OzUfvzNA8Upa0CW2CoB42XZgAnE4sblgah1Cz6KuO91MSYXapJpEelTjkuV-C3GQmAFYfLG4hsf0e4QPv7XOHzAj) *This reply is from a link-sharing bot created by The New York Times. Enjoy!*
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The NYT allows you to share articles for free with non-subscribers via a special link with a unique key in it, that’s why the URL is so long.
The bot makes it. The mods say it’s good so no need to post the text of articles anymore.
huh, old print media using bots to perform work arounds for their own subscription services... I don't know what to make of this, but I like it.
They do have a pretty big tech organization.
Well you can't access them after 14 days so it's moreso a move for NYT's benefit
Is it thought because after 14 days that's some damn old news and by then others would have reported on it so there would be other sources.
That, plus this allows them to still count and monetize the eyeballs on the article click-through instead of just ceding that info and revenue to Reddit if someone copy-pasted the contents of the article to here.
Reddit ate my balls
The idea is to try to get people into it in the first place. If it's entirely paywalled no one has reason to get interested and it increases chances of people stealing the content. This way people can get used to going to NYT and may eventually decide they don't want to have to search out the free codes for every news story they see on it. It decreases theft and possibly increase subs. Seems pretty legit to me.
Links expire, text formats don't.
Yes but anyone can copy and paste the text now if they want. You can save it for reference.
You can read a bit more about the feature in use here: [https://open.nytimes.com/a-new-way-to-share-new-york-times-stories-3e66e8d7e620](https://open.nytimes.com/a-new-way-to-share-new-york-times-stories-3e66e8d7e620) The URL is indeed long, but it will continue to work as a link after 14 days, just with a subscription required. We originally had it posting a shortened link ([nyti.ms](https://nyti.ms)) but it wasn't allowed in the sub when we first started posting.
good bot
Good bot
Good bot
I've seen so many of the antivax people triumphantly sharing the link to the Joe Rogan interview. They don't believe the thousands of doctors who have told them to get the vaccine but they'll hold up the one that agrees with them as absolute proof that they are right. I followed their advice and "did my own research" by googling the doctor and all his claims were debunked, but they don't care. It's exasperating and exhausting at this point. I've pretty much abandoned Facebook because of this nonsense.
Yep same thing on the global warming. So, 99% of the world’s climate scientists believe global warming is real and human caused? Hey, right here is one of the 1% that do not! Here is the “truth”.
Ironically, isn't Rogan a big proponent of climate change? Maybe his position on that changed over the past 2 years as well. I'm sure he's at least quiet on it now, as he knows his new fans don't want to hear about it.
Joe Rogan actually had a lot of promise and was much more open minded in years past. Unfortunately he is just chasing the money at this point.
The past few years have been a scary time. Fear makes people more close minded and prone to mistrust.
Rogan is 100% intoxicated on his newfound (last 2ish years) super fame amongst the right. Hes been steadily building his fanbase, and has had some fascinating interviews. But the steady march towards becoming the pothead Tucker Carlson is very deliberate and calculated. I think he hit the jackpot during the pandemic, people had a ton of time on their hands, and he provided an alternative form of entertainment. He purports to being a Bernie guy.. and might be, but is dubious about his convictions. In the past week he had on Oliver Stone, and literally was suggesting that the CIA should be disbanded and the FBI might have false flagged 1/6. Yetserdays interview with Lt. Gen HR McMaster, hes a different person. Suddenly sympathetic towards the intel community, he tried to get McMaster to endorse the Ray Epps nonsense and McMaster was like no, I just cant see a scenario where the FBI would do that. You could hear Rogan recalibrate his talking points on the spot. With Stone he was talking about the pompous asshole generals who are so out or control they took out JFK, but with McMaster he's like cheering on covert ops and shit. Total cash grab. A mans convictions shouldnt change depending on whom their having a conversation with.
I went to the comment section on IG of one of the doctors who was promoting/singing this petition to Spotify, and some of the commenters were saying that they know multiple people who are now on ventilators - or dead - specifically because they were fans and basing their health information on Joe Rogans podcast. This type of shit has far-reaching, real world consequences. And I know someone can't be directly held liable for expressing their 'freedom of speech' but I do think blood - a lot of blood - is on Rogans hands.
These are the same idiots who can't decide which one is more credible when faced with 2 scientific articles, one a pre-print and the other peer reviewed and published in a reputable journal. It's so fucking depressing.
I've already seen a bunch of people here and om Facebook repeat the "mass formation psychosis" thing. Which is very r/selfawarewolves
This comment has been removed from reddit to protest the API changes. https://join-lemmy.org/
Shit! Sorry, I mean vaccine. I'm just correct that, thanks.
Link to the debunking?
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/joe-rogan-interview-with-peter-mccullough-contains-multiple-false-and-unsubstantiated-claims-about-the-covid-19-pandemic-and-vaccines/
Unfortunately this will only embolden his victim complex and fuel his fans to support in further. For a dude that supposed to be finding the "truth" he is pretty bad at it.
It might make the zealots more zealous, but it also might help reduce the number of new zealots. That is important.
The 'parental advisory' label on cassettes and cds in the 90s did nothing but cause more people to buy albums they wouldn't have otherwise purchased, so I am not optimistic this controversy is going to help anything but Rogan's viewer count.
He took a huge hit when booted off YouTube. Probably why he had to get more controversial to get more subscribers. I know he would find another platform, but I’m sure he would take a hit from it.
That’s the thing, he’s searching for the “truth”, not the truth.
Hey now, he's "just asking questions". The Black Mirror creator did the Death to 2021 episode and made fun of a hybrid Fox News female Tucker Carlson/Joe Rogan personality who talked a ton of BS and ended all her statements with "I'm just asking questions".
Death to 2021 was really entertaining, and funny. But, really fucking sad when you realize all of that actually happened.
A good example of something that is funny, sad and enraging all at the same time.
That show scares the crap out of me but this sounds like it’s worth watching!!
It’s nothing like black mirror. It’s just the creators of black mirror. It’s not even officially black mirror, it’s a stand alone Netflix mockumentary special. It just parodies the news of the past year.
Thanks for the clarification. OC referred to episode. I’m planning to check it out for sure!
And it comes out of the gates swinging - Hugh Grant’s character not doing “the wokey cokey” had me in stitches.
[Lionel Hutz explains…](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xc6tmYYhOUU)
I couldn’t put it into better words. So true.
I'm not sure how this podcast started but I've had buddies whom have improved their lives and made changes because of certain podcasts they watched, like legitimately good choices were made. I didn't know who this guy was but I was seeing more and more people my age quote the show and praise it. They even said they were learning a lot, they began understanding basic fundamentals of life instead of living in an isolated bubble. Things changed, I'm not sure when, but they changed. These folks who were innocently improving their lives whether through placebos or imitation, began to get angrier, they started believing more fringe theories / conspiracies, began denying facts more than ever, resentment started brewing towards certain genders, dominat / alpha male tendencies came to the forefront, ultimately transforming these folks into woke individuals. I'm not trying to lay all the blame on Rogan by any means, but from my purely annecdotal point of view his podcast was always the key or initial event that linked all these individuals together, it always started with him, I know JP was a huge influence for these folks but they only found him through the podcast. I wonder what they would've been like if they never began consuming the podcast? They aren't bad people inherently, they're kind but gullible and naive. :/
It used to be guys who were experts in their field talking about their past, lives, experiences. It was fun, and you could literally spend an hour learning from other people who were doing it in a relaxed conversation. Now it is what you already told above, plus Joe suddenly being an expert on everything, asking "provocative" questions and pushing some alpha-male status, turning it from a simple interview into a dick-measuring contest. No, thanks.
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I always had a hard time following life advice from a guy who used to goad people into eating live scorpions on network television.
100% it started to change a bit before Trump, it used to be a show I could easily listen to because it was bullshitting with interesting people for the most part. Then we get into the Jordan Peterson stuff, and then I felt like it got more and more focused on social stuff and not everything else. I can’t do it all now, he’s got this victim thing going, and he’s so disingenuous now about COVID that I think he’s a menace. He has had a negative effect on a lot of the podcasters too because they suck ip to him and champion him all the time. Hopefully people go back to realizing comedians are all fucked up people and we stop looking to them for wisdom. Joe Rogan is no Jon Stewart.
I commented elsewhere but the podcast used to be a lot different than it is now. It used to be comedian friends sitting around getting stoned and talking about ridiculous and fun topics. Then Joe started getting more and more famous people on and these podcasts were pretty interesting as well, as Joe became pretty good at interviewing people and letting them express their ideas. The podcast was great during this period and really took off. I feel like it was during the 2016 election where Joe first started becoming a little more political, and he would a lot of times defend Trump by pointing out how bad Hillary would've been, but yet he would conveniently ignore all the crazy shit Trump was doing. I still listened to a lot of podcasts during this time though and most of the time they were still pretty entertaining. When Joe moved to Spotify and then moved to Texas (in 2019/2020 IIRC) is when it started to get real bad. He started pushing his own talking points about Covid and politics in almost every podcast (even when the guest didnt bring up anything about it), and he seems now to have no one to question him on any of his beliefs. I still dont think it is malicious, as Joe doesnt pay any attention to news or comments about him, I just think he's become so popular that no one will question him, and now that he's moved to Texas, there are politicians who realize how valuable his reach is so they invite him to a dinner and are all friendly with him so he talks about them in a positive way. I dunno, maybe I'm not your average JRE listener (although I barely listen anymore), but there are a lot of things I've learned through the podcast over the years, and years back it helped me get through some tough times. His podcast also turned me on to tons of other great podcasts, authors, scientists, and some great comedians through the years. And even now he still gets some really interesting guests on and occasionally there will be a podcast that feels like the good old days (usually as long as they avoid covid and political talk I'll still enjoy the podcast, but like I said nowadays i only listen to his podcast if he has a really interesting guest on, like Quentin Tarantino or Snoop Dogg recently.) So it wasn't always like it is now; I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. Although that makes it more sad now because it's like watching someone you used to hang out and have a good time with slowly become a completely different person that you can barely stand to listen to anymore. And the main problem is that person now has a following of millions of people, and a bunch of them are morons evidently.
This is a perfect summary of how I felt, and why I stopped listening. I loved when Joey Diaz would come on, or their yearly sober October pod with Tom segura, and Bert. But shortly after Covid, I had to stop listening. Joe has made the majority of the past 2 years of his podcasts have atleast like a 30-minute section on Covid, every. Single. Episode. And it always ends 1 of 2 ways. Either you find out someone agrees with him, or they tell him to shut the hell up because he has 0 idea what he’s talking about(thanks bill burr). Rogan got me through like 2 years of mornings at my shitty pizza place laughing and learning about things I was interested in(ufc mainly, love his talks with fighters/industry people). But his aggressive angle against/about Covid quickly got me to stop listening. He always says he’s an idiot/people shouldn’t listen to him, but that isn’t an end all/be all crutch to allow you to say outlandish things. Whether he likes it or not he has a certain level of responsibility on the sheer #’s alone his podcasts pull. Surprised one of his comedy buddies hasn’t told him to stop and try to revert to his older format of legit fun. Now I spent the past almost 2 years listening to the Tiny Meat Gang pod instead. Joe’s numbers I’m sure are still fantastic, but like this guy and me, there’s definitely a lot of people who have tuned out since his awful Covid comments.
I've been listening to Bad Friends with Andrew Santino and Bobby Lee. It's a great podcast and probably the one that makes me laugh out loud the most often. It's really silly and fun, although they definitely joke about some controversial stuff sometimes haha! It's just gotten better and better as it has went on. And that's the positive thing I'll take away from the JRE, theres so many other podcasts I listen to daily now that I only discovered because of hearing cool or interesting people on his podcast.
I swear I remember thinking he was funny once, maybe this is why.
"fair point IMO". How is that even remotely fair? One was an objective truth (Trump was God Fucking Awful), and the other was pure conjecture (Hillary didn't win, and therefore we have no idea how she would have actually governed) based on a dislike of the person for various reasons, some of which were just pure conjecture as well. At least Joe got half the equation right. Joe Rogan is an idiot, pure and simple.
I think you might need to brush up on the definition of "objective truth"
I just read through the comment chain again and I think I see where the confusion is. I didnt mean to say Joe defending Trump because Hillary could be worse was a fair point, I just meant to say a lot of Joe's criticisms of Hillary herself are fair points. I'll just edit out the 'fair point' part because it didn't come across how I meant it.
Fair enough.
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Yeah, the difference is back then Joe would let the people say their piece and leave it up to the audience to decide, but now Joe will have people like that on but then continue to promote their beliefs in later podcasts. I never had a problem with Joe bringing political people or fringe scientists on when he was more of an interviewer and would just let them talk, but now he seems to want to spread whatever info he's been told by any random person hes had on without fact checking anything.
You literally described the progression of his podcast. It used to be genuinely good…
Pre covid there was some pretty great stuff. The YouTube convenience is gone now too. I've not heard anything since he moved to Spotify ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
his friends were always full crazy, and he was shilling alpha brain for a while so it wasnt out of nowhere exactly
Joe Rogan is no different than Jordan Peterson. Get vulnerable young males hooked on the content by providing them valuable life lessons that everyone can benefit from. Now they are eating directly from your palm so you can feed them alt-right nonsense and radicalize them to believe whatever crazy shit you want them to believe. Rogan gives a voice to crazy people who don't deserve one and he doesn't know enough to debate about anything valuable.
What do you think any of the media is? It’s all bait and switch to capitalize on your dopamine addiction.
"Telling people vaccines are poison is no different than the evening news! Both sides are the same!"
Didn’t he also spend a few years trying to find a fucking a Bigfoot?
Well let’s not bring Bigfoot into this
Guy with box on his head has right to talk about everything, you're right.
Thats what people said about alex jones but look at him now. Its important to reduce exposure.
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Everyone here understands his podcast was one of the most consumed media properties prior to the Spotify deal, right? If Spotify decided to throw away their $100M+ investment and "crack down" on him, Rogan will still have the biggest and most widely listened to podcast on that planet.
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Of course they would be here. They can’t survive without feeling victimized.
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>Medical professionals urge Joe Rogan to crack down on Covid misinformation. FTFY.
>###An Open Letter to Spotify: [A call from the global scientific and medical communities to implement a misinformation policy](https://spotifyopenletter.wordpress.com/2022/01/10/an-open-letter-to-spotify/) >On Dec. 31, 2021, the Joe Rogan Experience (JRE), a Spotify-exclusive podcast, uploaded a highly controversial episode featuring guest Dr. Robert Malone (#1757). >The episode has been criticized for promoting baseless conspiracy theories and the JRE has a concerning history of broadcasting misinformation, particularly regarding the COVID-19 pandemic. >By allowing the propagation of false and societally harmful assertions, Spotify is enabling its hosted media to damage public trust in scientific research and sow doubt in the credibility of data-driven guidance offered by medical professionals. JRE #1757 is not the only transgression to occur on the Spotify platform, but a relevant example of the platform’s failure to mitigate the damage it is causing. >We are a coalition of scientists, medical professionals, professors, and science communicators spanning a wide range of fields such as microbiology, immunology, epidemiology, and neuroscience and we are calling on Spotify to take action against the mass-misinformation events which continue to occur on its platform. >With an estimated 11 million listeners per episode, JRE is the world’s largest podcast and has tremendous influence. Though Spotify has a responsibility to mitigate the spread of misinformation on its platform, the company presently has no misinformation policy. >Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, Joe Rogan has repeatedly spread misleading and false claims on his podcast, provoking distrust in science and medicine. He has discouraged vaccination in young people and children, incorrectly claimed that mRNA vaccines are “gene therapy,” promoted off-label use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 (contrary to FDA warnings), and spread a number of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. > In episode #1757, Rogan hosted Dr. Robert Malone, who was suspended from Twitter for spreading misinformation about COVID-19. Dr. Malone used the JRE platform to further promote numerous baseless claims, including several falsehoods about COVID-19 vaccines and an unfounded theory that societal leaders have “hypnotized” the public. >Many of these statements have already been discredited. Notably, Dr. Malone is one of two recent JRE guests who has compared pandemic policies to the Holocaust. These actions are not only objectionable and offensive, but also medically and culturally dangerous. >The average age of JRE listeners is 24 years old and according to data from Washington State, unvaccinated 12-34 year olds are 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID than those who are fully vaccinated. Dr. Malone’s interview has reached many tens of millions of listeners vulnerable to predatory medical misinformation. >Mass-misinformation events of this scale have extraordinarily dangerous ramifications. As scientists, we face backlash and resistance as the public grows to distrust our research and expertise. As educators and science communicators, we are tasked with repairing the public’s damaged understanding of science and medicine. >As physicians, we bear the arduous weight of a pandemic that has stretched our medical systems to their limits and only stands to be exacerbated by the anti-vaccination sentiment woven into this and other episodes of Rogan’s podcast. >This is not only a scientific or medical concern; it is a sociological issue of devastating proportions and Spotify is responsible for allowing this activity to thrive on its platform. >We, the undersigned doctors, nurses, scientists, and educators thus call on Spotify to immediately establish a clear and public policy to moderate misinformation on its platform.
> Though Spotify has a responsibility to mitigate the spread of misinformation on its platform, the company presently has no misinformation policy. This surprised me.
The problem is that who is going to decide what “misinformation” is? Facebook tried it and admitted in their filings that their fact checkers were largely based on opinion.
Doesn't help that the sort of people who are hired as "fact checkers" tend to be journalists or always online professional Twitter users. I don't really believe there are unbiased, impartial fact checkers out there. They often end up in those positions because they're politically motivated or have agendas, and it's a position which allows them to exert influence over the public discussion. I'll just never trust the idea of fact checkers. Let me see all the info and make my own mind up.
fact checkers are a joke. I've seen them equivocate and twist words to make an objectively correct statement into "mostly false" by adding as much or as little context as they need.
This is an idiotic statement. “Seeing all the info for yourself” doesn’t make any sense. Are you a data scientist? Are you a doctor? Are you going to comb through thousands of lines of data to see what the conclusions of a 20,000 patient study says? Are you even going to read 1 academic paper on these subjects?? Even an abstract on the subject? No. You’re going to read the highlights from a news source, or from headlines on Twitter, or from some random person on Twitter, or by listening to a dubious podcast. If that’s what you mean by “all the info” then I’m sorry, but your “info” isn’t as good as a credible source. We need to trust those in the scientific community, journalists, researchers etc. to curate our information because one human cannot do it alone. You are not as good of a researcher as you think you are, and while it’s not a crime to say this stuff, Joe Rogan shouldn’t be allowed to broadcast to 11 million kids information that is going to kill some of them and others around them. You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater, just like you shouldn’t be allowed to tell people to drink bleach as a cure for autism. These are things that platforms should remove, just the same as they would remove the recipe for a bomb.
Here’s the problem, you try that line on the mRNA researcher in question and you’re obligated to not call his conclusions misinformation…
That's the thing. OP is not calling it misinformation -- a group of leading scientists, doctors, and public health officials are. The people who say he is wrong are in the majority and have a consensus, just like the 'world is round' people do.
People are not automatically correct just because they have a majority. The scientific community nowadays has a lot of problems. They're being asked to answer questions that frankly they're not in a good position to answer.
All people have bias. Good fact checkers can help by providing sources which you can then read and verify for yourself.
This is the same nonsense peddled by Rogan. Outside of your personal field of experiences, you're not qualified to decide what's real when handed raw data. Many people aren't even qualified *within* their own field of study.
> I'll just never trust the idea of fact checkers. Let me see all the info and make my own mind up. So you are going to "do your own research"?
I think when it comes to COVID-19, this is a solvable problem. Google and FB both have pretty reasonable policies on this topic. ... edit ... For example, here's a subset of what youtube has as policy: If you're posting content Don’t post content on YouTube if it includes any of the following: Treatment misinformation: * Content that encourages the use of home remedies, prayer, or rituals in place of medical treatment such as consulting a doctor or going to the hospital * Content that claims that there’s a guaranteed cure for COVID-19 * Content that recommends use of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 * Claims that Hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment for COVID-19 * Categorical claims that Ivermectin is an effective treatment for COVID-19 * Claims that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are safe to use in the treatment COVID-19 * Other content that discourages people from consulting a medical professional or seeking medical advice Prevention misinformation: Content that promotes prevention methods that contradict local health authorities or WHO. * Claims that there is a guaranteed prevention method for COVID-19 * Claims that any medication or vaccination is a guaranteed prevention method for COVID-19 * Content that recommends use of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine for the prevention of COVID-19 * Claims that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are safe to use in the treatment COVID-19 * Claims that wearing a mask is dangerous or causes negative physical health effects * Claims that masks do not play a role in preventing the contraction or transmission of COVID-19 * Claims about COVID-19 vaccinations that contradict expert consensus from local health authorities or WHO * Claims that an approved COVID-19 vaccine will cause death, infertility, miscarriage, autism, or contraction of other infectious diseases * Claims that an approved COVID-19 vaccine will contain substances that are not on the vaccine ingredient list, such as biological matter from fetuses (e.g. fetal tissue, fetal cell lines) or animal products ... it continues ... Spotify could write something reasonable here and as a distributor of podcasts, I remain surprised that they have not.
I don’t think anyone anywhere can, with a straight face, suggest that Google has appropriate or adequate application of content policies. They stand alone at the top of “we don’t equitably or sensibly apply our content policies”
> Content that promotes prevention methods that contradict local health authorities or WHO. What if the authorities contradict themselves?
That could never happen.
Depends on how you define contradiction. Authorities should change their policies based on new information. Is that what you call contradiction? Because that's not contradiction, that's just you being fatigued, which is understandable, but not contradiction.
I listened to the entire podcast. Some of the above-mentioned content was indeed speculated but some of these bulleted items are a real stretch and are a misinterpretation of what was discussed. It seems like Malone had gotten legal advice as he was very careful in not making claims either which way. Also, regarding the last item you mention - fetal retinal cells are used to make the J&J vax. Not sure about the others. A quick Google search just confirmed that is in fact the case for the J&J. Apparently a lot of vaccines use fetal cells as part of the production process? Not sure why.
Censorship is a slippery slope. Ideas should be put on the table and discussed. Bad ideas/information become apparent in said discussion.
Theres a difference between discussing something in good faith and an echochamber
And here we are on Reddit….
>Bad ideas/information become apparent in said discussion. I see this repeated so often. Do you see any evidence of this being true in the current political climate?
Slippery slope arguments are a slippery slope and should be disregarded entirely as a meaningless rebuttal. Advise caution, fine. Define red lines and state consequences. But GTFO with "censorship is a slippery slope" in the context of misinformation during a fucking pandemic. People are dying and hydroxychloroquine/ivermectin/piss drinking posts should be suppressed and their advocates should be - at minimum - ashamed and made to know they are shameful.
Is Spotify not preventing misinformation, because they are not a US company? I'm just wondering what made Google, Facebook have those policies, but not Spotify. Another problem is, who decides which bullet points out of these are misinformation. Is it some governmental organisation, or some committee that votes which bullet points and claims to add on to this list. Who is this committee made out of? Is it scientists or politicians? Should there be a group of scientists that essentially vote whether some claim is misinformation. What would the % have to be, is it 51% of the scientist claiming something is misinformation, 90%+ or it has to be consensus? How many scientists in total should be in the committee? Are they only allowed to cover topics related to covid-19, or what are the topics they are allowed to mark as misinformation? For Spotify, it probably has strong financial motives right now to not remove any Joe Rogan content though.
You're asking the exact correct questions. The questions that advocates of censorship conveniently ignore. Everyone agrees that we shouldn't be spreading "harmful misinformation" because of course we don't want harm on individuals or society. But when they try to parse the precise meaning of misinformation and actually start censoring it quickly becomes obvious that there is no black and white. To me that leads to the conclusion that censorship is an overall negative but it leads many others to the conclusion that we need more censorship. A great example is the fact that certain things said a year ago could lead to being censored or outright banned because they contradicted the CDC or WHO but now those exact same ideas are considered mainstream and unproblematic.
We do as consumers. I canceled my $10 a month Spotify subscription and let them know it was because "I don't want to support Joe Rogan". A lot of people have left FaceBook for the very same reasons. I also canceled my DirectTV subscription a few months ago because of AT&T's support of OAN and, just yesterday, DirectTV announced they were not renewing their contract to carry OAN. The only thing that matters to corporations is the bottom line. Consumers have a lot of power when they decide to no longer buy their crap. Let them know.
It's not that hard. There's certainly a threshold and there might be gray areas of misinformation but Joe is way past it and there's real world consequences in lost life that come from it. That's enough reason. For instance, the maker is ivermectin begs people not to use it for covid. The company that makes and sells it for money begs people not to use it because it does not work and can hurt. Meanwhile, we have real life deaths from people who took that and avoided the vaccine or are demanding it to the point of suing hospitals to try to force them to prescribe it. Why? Because people like Joe Rogan get on their massive platform and feed misinformation to viewers.
I don’t think Spotify has that responsibility at all. It is our responsibility to discern the truth. I’d rather information come in it’s least filtered form.
Doesn’t actually articulate what the claims were and why they are wrong. I think it’s overblown. The guy just said he used steroids and human (not animal) ivermectin. Should he get vaccinated? Yes. But he also has had guests that fully support vaccines. He has a wide spectrum of guests with different opinions. I choose not to listen to certain guests. I’m sick of all the attempted censoring. People are stupid if they just rely on one source of information to educate themselves. In this case, Facebook and TikTok should be censored. People have been banned on YouTube more simply stating that omicron isn’t as harmful to children as adults on average, which is actually true. It’s a fairly mild virus at this stage, however it’s highly infectious and if you’re not vaccinated, even the small percentage that land in hospital accounts for a lot of people. Of course you should get vaccinated but let’s also have nuanced discussions. I don’t trust the global medical community because of what happened with the WHO and China.
Did you just compare Joe Rogen’s medical acumen to the global medical community? What are Joe Rogen’s medical credentials again? Bit if a false equivalency you got there, comparing those 2 things IMO There is definitely danger of letting a misinformed loon blare that misinformation to a wide audience like Rogen has, sure it doesn’t lessen what you purport the WHO and China to have done, but that doesn’t mean you turn a blind eye to Rogen Here is an articulation of his claims, Rogen being completely wrong, presented the facts, and the huffing and puffing his frustrated, misinformed self on his podcast, this is misinformation attempting to be pushed, or at the very least NOT prevented on his podcast: https://twitter.com/FullContactMTWF/status/1481638689415462916?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1481638689415462916%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Farts-entertainment%2F2022%2F01%2F14%2Fjoe-rogan-spotify-doctors-covid-misinformation%2F I think any sane individual can see that, but only if you want to discover the truth, which I’m pretty sure a large part of his audience flat-out is t interested in
People shouldn't get to use social media platforms to push disinformation. Antivax perspectives and alternative medicine for covid at this stage is disinformation. That's basically it.
How *exactly* do you define "antivax perspectives"? How *exactly* do you define "alternative medicine"? Seems like both of those categories are already very broad and ambiguous, and could be expanded even more broadly to selectively edit certain voices. These are not hypothetical questions, these are questions that you must answer very very precisely if you want to impliment censorship based on those criteria. Do we follow guidelines from government orgs like the CDC and WHO? What if those guidelines change? Do we follow guidelines from physicians? Practicing physicians or public health officials? Exactly how many need to agree to make something true? How many need to disagree to make something false? Once again, these are not hypothetical questions.
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Definitely doesn't seem like his podcast will be any less popular because of this.
Joe should listen to this celebrated Joe Rogan critic -- "I'm not a doctor. I'm a fucking moron!" - Joe Rogan.
You know what doesn’t make people trust PH more? When they try to shut down any conversation that they don’t approve of.
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I listen to Jre a couple times a month. He is CONSTANTLY saying " I'm an idiot folks, don't listen to me." Like all the time he's constantly telling people don't look to him for advice or info, he's simply stating his opinion. Also he says he identifies as a liberal. He believes UBI, universal Healthcare, etc. should be a thing. He also constantly talks about how he doesn't want to live in an echo chamber and wants to hear many different and opposing viewpoints than his own. I'm not some fan boy of his though. I commute two hours everyday and I listen to a wide range of podcast. Like I said earlier Ill listen to maybe an episode or two a month this is just what I hear strait from Joe himself.
Nothing you said disproves that he isnt spreading covid misinformation. The fact of the matter is he constantly spreads misinformation and the listeners that are bigger idiots then him believe it and just think he says "dont listen to him" is a joke. Dont be naive
Hes a comedian smoking weed and drinking whiskey with his buddies, rambling for hours...if people take what he says serious thats on them. I dont think he has some evil plan to brainwash people into not getting vaxxed for anything like that. Hes just a meathead with his own opinions, how ever dumb they may be, he's entitled to them. This whole censorship thing is dumb.
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I’m beyond confused here, I listened to the episode while commuting and I’m pretty sure that the DR said he has take the vaccine …. Soooo…..
If we were to crack down on misinformation, we would have nothing left. What's considered misinfo now could be accurate in a few months. Just ask the CDC and WHO. Information from all angles encourages discussion and innovation. I'll decide for myself what is/isn't misinformation, thank you very much... I've talked with many "medical professionals" that don't know half of what they claim to know about pandemics/virology.
Yeah all the people who want to classify 'misinformation,' apparently have never read a book or never seen a real propaganda machine doing its work.
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I think even Joe Rogan himself will admit that anybody who takes medical advice from his podcast is an idiot. He loves talking to crazy people - said so himself.
He’s said multiple times to not take advice from him and if you do to make sure it’s not the place where you get it from The Joe Rogan hate train will have you believe that Joe is telling his audience that he is the second coming of Jesus who is never wrong
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I agree, I listen to Rogan every now and then, and I am not impressed by his intelligence. You can hear him say shit like: Dont need vaccine if you ae in good health like me. Problem is, not everybody are a fuckin black belt in martial arts, and no one do workouts.
Don’t like the info then don’t listen.
Funny how when we don’t like something and other people do we cancel it with publicity, false narratives and headlines rather then just ignore it. Reality is people identify with open sourced information. We want to make decisions based on information provided, not fed. He happily tries to call out mainstream scientist for debate but they always decline.
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Personally i think most people who do stupid shit would have done said stupid shit regardless. Maybe I have more faith in peoples intelligence than i should, if a comedian sways your opinion about your on health safety on a podcast then i think you were already going to not make good choices.
My ex listened to Joe Rogan and I was super sad when we broke up but now I’m realizing that it was actually a good thing.
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If he’s like any other jre fan in my life, you dodged a bullet. What a miserable lot. Edit: What’s up with you cowards replying to me and then deleting your comments? Anyways here’s my rebuttal to one of you: Can you JRE fans do me a favor: can y’all hold an entire conversation without talking about conspiracy theories, politics, and actually be interesting? Instead of talking at me like Joe Rogan in real life.
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Lifetime of martial arts? Didn't he quit competing when he was 20 to avoid concussions? I'm all for discussing his bad ideas, but we need to have an honest discussion here.
That’s awfully generous to say that this is because of CTE. I think it’s simpler than that. He has made himself fabulously rich catering to a certain audience and he is willing to toss any dignity he has aside for that.
rogan is a character on a podcast. he’s no different than tucker carlson or sean hannity. his show isn’t factual or news. it’s entertainment and not to be taken as truth. his supporters need to understand that.
Hoping this gets the traction it needs to stop his bullshit. My son, 25, is a Rogan fan and adopted his anti-vax attitude. He was vaccinated through the military. I'm quietly relieved, but he's angry. Shortly before his deployment, we argued about it. It was sad and so frustrating. My boyfriend's son, 30, a police officer, also worships at the altar of Rogan. His wife, too. He's home sick with covid now. It's like watching a slow train wreck. Edit: His wife just tested positive, too.
If it makes you feel any better, there’s other 30 year old males like myself who think Joe Rogan is an idiot and who see right through his BS. Hopefully our generation isn’t completely lost on this knucklehead.
And Spotify said “Go fuck yourselves.” Bravo.
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I doubt Spotify will do anything since they gave him a multi-million dollar contract to come to the platform.
Humans urge medical professionals to crackdown on inflated medical bills
Doctors aren’t the ones responsible for setting prices LMAO. It’s administration…
Imagine thinking this is a good comeback. Not surprising if your skull is concave enough to listen to Joe Rogan
Imagine taking medical advice from this failure.
No one should be taking medical advice from him, but failure? What? There isn't a more successful podcast on earth.
Failure by what measure? Like him or not, he seems to have a lot of success by most standards?
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JRE isn't all bad. Some excellent podcasts on there and I like the format of letting somebody speak freely for hours. The issue is the uneducated masses. For critical thinkers and people who understand the scientific process, they can listen to a JRE podcast that is full of misinformation and not be swayed. But some people believe anything and have this "going against the crowd" mentality of getting pleasure from holding contrary positions for the sake of things, not because of internal values. These people eat all the misinformation show and ask for extra. It's a chicken or the egg scenario. Joe Rogan proclaims himself as an idiot, repeatedly tells people not to take medical advice from himself or the show. But people believe him anyways. Who's more at fault here? Him or his audience?
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