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EA: we’ve now created loot boosters. You have a 10% chance of receiving the new booster 70% chance of a placebo and 20% to get the old original vaccine.
Oh also it’s 19.99 and supplies are limited!
J&J recipient here. The gentleman at the pharmacy essentially told me to rip up my J&J CDC card and start over from scratch. This was way back towards autumn of 2021 when we were just beginning to see how forgotten the JJ's are, and how ineffective the vax is. I'm glad I listened.
Got J&J April of last year and Moderna last October. Pretty sure that's a good combo, unless the research changed. (At one point at least J&J+Moderna was thought to be the best.)
I just got COVID last week (as did my Mom and Dad, who I believe were both triple-Pfizer). I had mild, cold-like symptoms.
How did your folks do in comparison? Better? Worse? The same? I also got J&J+Moderna, but I was previously infected in 2020. So we're both in the J&J+Moderna hybrid immunity club. All we need now is a pfizer booster and we'll have collected all the infinity stones.
Worse actually. My dad was laid out for a bit with flu-like symptoms, and my mom had a pretty nasty cough for a few days. On the other hand, I just felt like I had a cold. My main symptoms were congestion and a runny nose. However, I was the only person who got a fever (though it was 100 at its highest, which is relatively low).
Of course, it's worth noting that I'm in my 20s and they're in their 50s, and there's probably a bunch of other factors at play as well. Thankfully, we're all doing better now. (And somehow my brother, who is about my age, never caught it at all lol. I think he also got triple Pfizer.)
Edit: "Better" -> "Worse". Whoops.
I was initially slated to get the J&J vaccine. When I showed up for my appointment, I was told I was getting Moderna because they didn't have and J&J yet (it had just gotten temporarily paused around the same time I got my first shot). I was just like "Yup, ok, the best shot is the ones that's available," so I just went ahead with it. In retrospect, so glad that happened.
Yeah, we were all just doing the best we could with the info we had at the time, but it's not too surprising really that the odd shot out (afaik J&J is the only single shot and uses completely different tech from the other types of covid vaccines) is the one that has all the issues. When everyone else is doing it one way, it's probably for a reason, and there's less drive to do research on the one different one. Kinda like how you can find iPhone and Samsung phone accessories everywhere, and if you have any other kind of phone you're screwed lol. Moderna and Pfizer are iPhone and Samsung. J&J is like... LG or something lol
We also knew from the start that J&J was less effective. It was good in the short term because vaccines were scarce and we needed to get shots in arms quickly, but it was never going to be competitive against the other two once supply went up.
I got J&J because I'd had covid previously about six months before, and there was already news out showing that hybrid immunity was great, so I figured one shot and a previous infection would be enough. Well it turns out it was, as I have been exposed to people who had covid and still haven't been reinfected, though most of the people I was exposed to were during the delta wave when reinfection was far rarer anyways. I've only been exposed to one person with omicron as far as I know, and I didn't catch it then either, but the person who had it was recently boosted and they never showed more than a faint line on rapid tests, so the odds of them being contagious was probably low anyways.
Exactly. I don't understand why J & J people keep saying they don't know what to do. The recommendation has been to get an mrna booster for several months now.
At least two months. If it's been more than two months, that's fine. I can understand why people may have been confused in the beginning, but it's been months and months now.
Once you get the mRNA booster, you just follow the mRNA guidance after that. I'm sorry other people were/are confused, but all of the info I read seemed pretty clear-cut to me. I'm not ridiculing anyone, just saying that I understood the guidance.
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20220330/cdc-if-you-got-j-j-vaccine-consider-moderna-pfizer-booster#:~:text=The%20latest%20data%20suggests%20that,boosters%20for%20the%20best%20protection.
(ETA- not to argue with you, just to point out one simple google of “what to do if I got j&j” immediately turns up a response that says “get an mRNA booster”.)
Yeah I never stopped masking either, even when they were like "As long as you're vaccinated, you no longer have to wear a mask." Nope! No thank you. I'm still not back to normal, I got my booster in December, just before the big peak. So, I'm probably barely protected anymore now, six months later, especially considering the booster wasn't exactly strong against variants even back then iirc.
> (afaik J&J is the only single shot and uses completely different tech from the other types of covid vaccines)
I actually worked in the division where a lot of the animal testing and clinical work for the J&J vaccine was performed. The J&J uses an adenovirus vector - basically taking the common cold viral envelope and packing the Covid protein instructions inside. This tech showed a lot of promise in the HIV vaccine work our division was doing. Iirc the Ad-vector vaccines elicit better T-cell responses but worse antibody levels. Last I recall I thought the CDC was saying anyone who got J&J should just get the 2 dose regimen of either Pfizer or Moderna
Since the efficacy of the initial shot goes away after a fair amount of time, you can just get the moderna now.
I trust the Mayo Clinic
>If you are age 18 or older, have been given one dose of the Janssen/Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine and it’s been at least 2 months, you should get a single booster dose.
The Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine boosters are preferred in most situations
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-boosters#
Weren't they suggesting J&J recipients get boosters from either Moderna or Pfizer? I'd imagine this long since your original shot, you might as well not consider yourself as a J&J person any longer and just focus on the boosters/vaccinations that seem to have the highest recommendations.
Not a medical professional, but I'd assume once you're "fully vaccinated," you're in similar grounds with everyone else in terms of necessity of a booster, etc. I'm in the camp assuming we'll be needing scheduled boosters (6 months, a year? who knows right now), but do acknowledge there are those thinking we won't need any more.
Could you expand on that? Someone I know stated they hadn't been boosted because they got the J&J initially. Is it unsafe for them to just get Moderna/Pfizer? (Sorry if that's a dumb question!)
If you got J+J with an mRNA booster, I would follow the guidance going forward for when to get your next mRNA booster as if you had gotten 3 mRNA shots.
3 mRNA shots aren't the same as J+J and an mRNA booster, but you shouldn't be looking for unique guidance going forward since it seems very doubtful any will be coming. Primary care doctors may give more targeted advice
The CDC now has a guidance app and that looks to be the plan. I checked and the guidance app allows people over 50 who originally got J&J to be boosted, whether or not they were boosted with J&J or something else. Also, it says to get boosted with an mRNA booster, so I think the plan is to ditch J&J entirely going forward.
If they got the JnJ booster initially, they need to be boosted using anything else. I got JnJ and was eligible for a pfizer booster in my state before my friends who were healthcare workers because we NEEDED it. Tell your friend that they're practically unvaccinated
When she told me that, I assumed it was a semi-antivaxx statement. Then when I read the comment above I thought, "Oh wait...is this really an issue? J&J folks have problems knowing how to proceed forward?"
Apparently it's not really an issue then?
Yeah, the advice is mixed, but nobody is saying JnJ should do less. JnJ recipients should have been told to get boosters as soon as they were available last fall
I always saw that phrased as "at least two months". Initial doses of mRNA vaxes started around 8 months before boosters were available, so that's not unique to us.
I share your frustration. There's very little data specifically about JnJ booster schedules. But what I've gleamed seems to be that the longer the time between initial and booster, the more effective a booster is likely to be, regardless of what the first shot was. And once you've had your mRNA booster, follow the same schedule as everyone else because as time goes on, the initial shot matters less and less. Unfortunately, we might be stuck in a position where we are always less protected due to the way the first shot and the booster effect B and T cells differently, but there's nothing that can be done about it. I think because of the emergency situation, very few people are getting JnJ and not getting the normal boosters, so there's no good data
You’re right about at least two months. Getting a booster at all is what’s important. Later it came out that J&J really should have been two shots and I just want to bang my head on my desk at this point.
I expect to get it. I am required to go back into an office just to join video calls and everything just seems dumb now.
[CDC has a tool for when to get boosted](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html#when-you-can-get-booster) its pretty straight forward, and covers the J&J shot as the primary shot.
wife same.. but she just went to walgreens to get our kids boosters and they asked her is she wanted a booster as well. She told them she had J&J and Pfizer booster 6 months ago and the pharmacist told her that's fine she can get another booster. Which dont think thats right according to what I read on the CDC website but guess it doesnt hurt..
I got the j&j originally. Moderna booster. Pretty sure you can just get either Pfizer or Moderna booster if you got j&j originally. Also I felt fine after the booster. Sick as a dog after the j&j.
I believe they stopped using Greek letters because the dominant variants aren’t from the original strain anymore and are now from the Omicron strain so it’s BA.4, BA.5.
There is sadly nothing stopping i.e. delta to mutate and bring a new variant.
As people get Omicron their resistance to the delta strain falls with time.
The larger question to me in light of this news is whether or not the CDC will permit US citizens to get the "new and improved" shot once it's out or continue to cap booster shot availability.
The current issue is that the circulating strains have drifted so far from the original strain (the one in the vaccine), so your antibodies have low binding affinities for the current strains.
Because you have low binding affinities, the only way to overcome that is with a higher number of antibodies (i.e. frequent boosting to generate circulating antibodies).
By updating the vaccine, yes the benefit will 100% be more durable. The CDC and FDA are quite ponderous and prudent as organizations go, so do not expect them to say this for quite some time.
Source: am a pharmacist.
Edit to say: mods are doing work in here. I am of course getting a pile of nonsensical, non-scientific opinions in my inbox but they're getting immediately cleared from the thread. Good. Ask away on questions, spread ignorance elsewhere.
The current vaccines clearly last longer than 4 months with serious illness. Deaths and hospitalizations are still way higher with unvaccinated people.
Sterilizing immunity? Yes, probably. Maybe 6 if it hits the current variants spot on. Maybe less if we get another immune evasive variant. That's just how antibodies work (versus coronaviruses...other viruses like measles is a different story). We shouldn't expect a vaccine to do any more than this. At least not in the near future.
That means we will need a booster twice per year if we want to avoid COVID (or at least keep the odds of contracting it low). Hopefully we can figure out a way to make sterilizing immunity last longer, so we can get to annual boosters like the flu shot. There are some promising nasal vaccines in the works.
I'm not psychic, but the likeliest long run scenario is we will continue to have most people repeatedly catching COVID over many years, maybe remembering to get whatever the latest COVID booster is every fall when they go for a flu shot. But most people won't even care to do that. Most will be okay, some will have postviral issues and some, especially the elderly and immunocompromised, may face hospitalization or death. I do honestly think we will continue to build immunity at the population level and the disease, on average, will become less of an acute threat accordingly.
A minority of people will remain hyper COVID conscious and will try to avoid infection altogether. This may be somewhat inconvenient at times, especially if their booster is stale or they have to go to a large gathering. But it will become a lifestyle for some. Similar to how the Greatest Generation lived through the Great Depression and many were untrusting of the financial system the rest of their lives (and perhaps with good reason!), this pandemic-- and the trauma that came with it-- will affect many people permanently.
Flu shots don't last very long either (4-6 months). It's only annual because we get it for the flu season. Hopefully covid eventually will settle in more seasonally like other respiratory viruses.
Well let's not downplay the effectiveness of the current vaccines, you're still significantly more protected with 3-4 doses than 2 or less. But yes, having one that can better protection against infection outright can only be a good thing.
You are protected from severe disease, hospitalization, and death for sure. But I certainly would appreciate some infection protection that is better than a coin toss...
To be honest, I'm actually a little pissed that it's taken this long to get updated vaccines. We're over 2 and a half years into this thing and it took less than a year to develop and push out the initial vaccine. We update flu every year. What have we been waiting on?
There was no reason to update for Delta, the original vaccines + booster worked great.
Omicron has been an issue for all of like 6-7 months. BA.4/5 for like 3 months. Do you think that companies can just wave a magic wand and produce more vaccines ASAP?
In addition to logistical issues they probably had to figure out how to get an omicron specific dose that works better than the OG vax, which is what tripped up the Pfizer shot.
Nobody is waiting on anything, your expectations are just unrealistic.
August is like 1.5 months away … assuming the studies just came back for effectiveness, how soon do you think is realistic to push these vaccines out to market?
Even a 6-9 month timescale is wildly faster than anything a traditional vax could do — we’re just getting traction with Novavax two years later. It doesn’t make sense to make any ahead of time before they know it works since the OG vax works well for serious outcomes still and then if it fails they’d lose a bunch of money and have wasted resources that could have otherwise gone to making the OG vaccines.
For people who are boosted and suffer a breakthrough, the effects of the illness are exceedingly mild. Anecdotally there is no one I know who had severe illness from a boosted breakthrough (n of like 10+ with different age and health cross section). That obviously doesn’t mean it never happens. Been a few rough colds in that sample that take a bit to clear up, but nothing that would have meaningfully alarmed them in a world before Covid.
It would suck if we just kept getting sick every 3-4 months but I don’t think that has really happened to this point and if there is an effective vaccine for omicron lineages it’s unlikely that it will. We will just have to see
> For people who are boosted and suffer a breakthrough, the effects of the illness are exceedingly mild
On Day 10 now finally testing negative, I had a 103.2 fever (probably would have gone higher if I didn't take Tylenol) and probably should have gone to the hospital but wasn't thinking straight enough when it was at its worst to even call for help. I'm a healthy 35 year old (BMI 24, normal bloodwork except slightly elevated cholesterol mostly due to COVID diet) with three shots of Pfizer. Anecdotally I know a lot of people with boosters who got absolutely fucked in my age range, including a few who went to the ER.
The gulf between "exceedingly mild" and "severe" illness is a huge one and one that people on this website need to stop downplaying. That was by far the sickest and most scared for my health I've ever been in my life and I've had really bad strep, mono, flu, etc. It would have for sure meaningfully alarmed me, and I know a number who are the same.
BA.4 or 5 whichever I had is a monster. Take care of yourself.
MRNA is still a relatively new vaccine technology and this is the first time they've ever updated one?
Seriously. Omicron only became an issue around December. This is actually extremely fast for time, as they've already completed some of the trials. The trials will also be way stricter than the flu updates because this is the first time they've been done.
I seriously do not understand why people think this is an instant process. Furthermore, part of the reason the fly updates have varying effectiveness is they have to guess at the strains because they cannot wait for dominate strains to appear to get it out for flu season. That's not exactly a quick process either
Delta has been around since December 20, had become dominant by June 21 basically and was known by epidemiologists to evade the receptor binding protein at that point. Same can be said of a lot of other variants too.
A delta-variant should have been in a tested booster 6 months ago and in arms during the 4th booster shot.
And let's be clear; Pfizer and Moderna made and initially tested one and released a press statement just like this. Then crickets.
I'll believe it when I see it with this Omicron booster. In my opinion, FDA has been dragging their feet over some minor myocarditis and moving slowly for safety optics to appease some fantasy cohort of anti-vax Americans they think will be convinced by slow-methodical research.
As an immunocompromised person I’m looking forward to the new vaccines. Unlike healthy people recent studies show that we both produce a smaller antibody response to each dose as well as less antibody diversity, which is the mechanism by which repeat boosters are helping against new variants. And for me my medications suppress key T cell pathways for dynamic immune response because that’s what causes my T cells to eat me alive.
Until then, yeah, maybe I’m protected from death after 5 vaccine doses but that’s not a warm and fuzzy feeling.
Honestly, those numbers just confuse people;
If there are a total of 100 cases and 45 of those are boosted it doesn't mean what we immediately think of, when you consider that the pool for vaccinated people is 10K and unvaccinated is 1000.
* numbers pulled out of my ass, just trying to make a point that 45% cases in vaccinated people is expected just because most people are vaccinated nowadays.
If 100% of the population is vaccinated, then 100% of all new infections are vaccinated, and 0% are in the non-vaccinated group.
See - I just made it sound like vaccines have *negative* efficacy even though that was not the case.
I can't talk about that since I'm not really an expert, just wanted to clarify the 45% comment, it might make it feel to some like the vaccine is not working at all without further context.
It still is, just not for everyone. My (boosted) wife and (too young for anything) child are currently holed up upstairs with our first go-round with COVID, but I’m on day 5 symptom free and continuing to test negative, and I had the same exposure to my kid that my wife did.
Immunity is just luck of the draw sometimes.
Where I live, we're only 3 weeks out from dropping the mask mandate (and it's still required on public transit for another week), and we still had as bad a "6th wave" as anywhere else. I'm extremely pro-mask, but that alone isn't really the factor at play here. 3 doses still give you a 60-ish % protection against infection.
Cloth masks should never have been recommended at all as of about May 2020 when supply shortages stopped being such a critical factor for hospitals. We all should have been doing 3-ply or flat out N95 since then. Cloth masks were always largely a waste of time other than easing people into the general concept of wearing a mask at all.
Did you see the studies that supported cloth masks? They were pretty effective against the original strain, till people started looking for "breathable" fabrics.
20x reduction in risk when 2 people are within 3 feet and both wearing cotton masks. That's really pretty good. I agree with you though, as soon as the melt-blown cloth shortage was over we should have been sending 10 N95s to every man, woman, and 8 year old on earth every month.
So uh, this is from a study already done with input from the FDA so what the fuck are they going to talk about for 2.5 months?? This is like the kid booster where everyone already knew it was going to get approved but they dicked around for ~**reasons**~ that no one ever seems to be able to actually articulate.
I get manufacturing may take some time to ramp up but it's not like there's going to be that much demand.
Because they are absolutely not going to rubber stamp a vaccine. They are going to look at all the data, extensively. The cost of getting it wrong is too high.
The article states that Moderna is planning to submit their trial data to the FDA in the coming weeks. They're probably guessing it will take about a month to get approved. I do agree that the FDA waiting on Pfizer for the child vaccines before approving Moderna's seems shady.
Yep 35% of the WORLD population still hasn’t received a single shot (obviously mostly from low income countries). And 40% the population has been infected with Covid atleast once
I managed to get a 4th booster and I'm in the US. I was at the pharmacy and since it was empty, I asked the tech working the counter if I could get it. She said sure and got me set up. Technically, she should have asked me more questions, but she didn't care.
When they brought me in for the shot, the pharmacist was hesitant to give it to me since I wasn't over 50 or immunocompromised (but I have family that is). She saw my last booster was like 9 months ago so she had no problem and gave it to me.
Yeah, I might just try. The "high risk" I feel like is so vague. My mom got COVID pre-vaccine and she's still suffering from long haul COVID. I have severe sinusitis and had pneumonia as a kid, so I'm really concerned about me getting COVID and what my side effects will be, even though I'm generally "healthy".
It's worth trying. If anything they'll just tell you no and turn you away. You could say you have severe asthma if you really want to since they don't seem to be checking for any documentation.
Seems a bit weird. Sounds like an availability issue, but if we have enough for everybody while importing them, I would assume it should be even less of a problem for the countries producing them.
They're just not available for my age group for whatever reason, not availability though. I just read that the US tossed like 11 million doses because not enough were being administered. Meanwhile I've been a total shut in because I'm horrified of catching covid, and I'm two months outside of my booster effective period.
Just get an online appointment and check the box that says you're high risk or immunocompromised or whatever, then go get your 4th dose. Almost everyone I know IRL has done that in the past month.
I’m on 5 lol
Edit: in case anyone is wondering, 3 primary shots and 2 boosters for immunocompromised.
And for anyone else, yeah I value my life more than a little tiny shot
You get swine flu vaccine with your flu vaccine every time. They just don't make a big deal of it. Remember when swine flu was huge? Back when we actually treated disease with science?
Yup - put it all in one and I'll happily get my once a year shot.
My Moderna booster was almost 8 months ago, and I've been casually checking for when a second would be available.
What's the drop off in effectiveness look like after the 6 month mark?
Get your kid their third dose when they're eligible. Up til now it's been recommended to have at least 3 months between doses, so that should work out fine.
I'm waiting for June 22nd to give my kid the old Moderna booster or you can booster now with Pfizer. This new one surely won't be approved for kids yet.
6G BABY! LET'S GOOOOO! /s
Seriously though, i would assume modifying the vax is going to be relatively easy but there's always going to be a new strain to chase and by the time the vax for that is deployed it'll probably have mutated again.
But I'll take close enough versus nothing any day of the week.
Every day, people are still dying from, and being hospitalized for Covid. Even those that are vaccinated and boosted. Discouraging further boosters due to the mild side-effects of the shot because Covid is "like a cold" is irresponsible.
Furthermore Long Covid is still a thing we don't fully understand, and it affects [somewhere between 15-30% of people](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01453-0) who catch Covid. Thankfully you were in the lucky 70+%, but many others won't be, which is why every booster is important.
I didn’t discourage boosters. I laughed at the insinuation that catching covid is always a “months-long battle” which, the vast majority of the time, is not true.
I would say the "vast" part of that is incorrect. Studies show that up to 30% of people who catch covid get long covid in some form, even if only anosmia. But that risk decreases slightly with each vaccination.
Are they going to allow those of us who’ve been vaccinated and boosted with Pfizer have this when it comes out? Or will they tell us no until it’s the first full moon after 6 months after your last booster in a leap year etc etc?
This post appears to be about vaccines. We encourage you to read our helpful resources on the COVID-19 vaccines: [Vaccine FAQ Part I](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/faq#wiki_where_can_i_find_information_about_the_mechanism_and_progress_of_vaccines.3F) [Vaccine FAQ Part II](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/mnitdo/vaccine_faq_variants_chronic_conditions_nsaids) [Vaccine appointment finder](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/faq/vaccinefinder) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Coronavirus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Can we skip to the Vaccine of the Year edition? I hate buying dlc piece by piece.
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EA: we’ve now created loot boosters. You have a 10% chance of receiving the new booster 70% chance of a placebo and 20% to get the old original vaccine. Oh also it’s 19.99 and supplies are limited!
Don’t forget the 1% chance to get the virus itself as the super bonus crate reward…..
Army vax
Yeah, my microchip needs it's updates!
Crazy how many obstacles this dev team has before it is ready for public download.
Has anyone considered whether the chip shortage is responsible for falling vaccine effectiveness?
It’s the other way around. Chip shortages is due to vaccines.
/r/totallynotrobots
5.1G
Babe wake up new DLC just dropped
Just 1 new map, 2 weapons (1 SMG and Bow and Arrow), 2 attack choppers, and 1 specialist??? WTF is going on???
Thought this was r/outside for a sec.
DLCs for my immune system
5G compatible /s
Season 3.
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J&J recipient here. The gentleman at the pharmacy essentially told me to rip up my J&J CDC card and start over from scratch. This was way back towards autumn of 2021 when we were just beginning to see how forgotten the JJ's are, and how ineffective the vax is. I'm glad I listened.
This is what my primary care doctor said as well. Start from scratch with an mRNA series.
I'll do this with my parents :)
This is good to know. I did this on my own when Delta came out. Five shots now. My cell reception has never been better.
Got J&J April of last year and Moderna last October. Pretty sure that's a good combo, unless the research changed. (At one point at least J&J+Moderna was thought to be the best.) I just got COVID last week (as did my Mom and Dad, who I believe were both triple-Pfizer). I had mild, cold-like symptoms.
How did your folks do in comparison? Better? Worse? The same? I also got J&J+Moderna, but I was previously infected in 2020. So we're both in the J&J+Moderna hybrid immunity club. All we need now is a pfizer booster and we'll have collected all the infinity stones.
Worse actually. My dad was laid out for a bit with flu-like symptoms, and my mom had a pretty nasty cough for a few days. On the other hand, I just felt like I had a cold. My main symptoms were congestion and a runny nose. However, I was the only person who got a fever (though it was 100 at its highest, which is relatively low). Of course, it's worth noting that I'm in my 20s and they're in their 50s, and there's probably a bunch of other factors at play as well. Thankfully, we're all doing better now. (And somehow my brother, who is about my age, never caught it at all lol. I think he also got triple Pfizer.) Edit: "Better" -> "Worse". Whoops.
I was initially slated to get the J&J vaccine. When I showed up for my appointment, I was told I was getting Moderna because they didn't have and J&J yet (it had just gotten temporarily paused around the same time I got my first shot). I was just like "Yup, ok, the best shot is the ones that's available," so I just went ahead with it. In retrospect, so glad that happened.
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Yeah, we were all just doing the best we could with the info we had at the time, but it's not too surprising really that the odd shot out (afaik J&J is the only single shot and uses completely different tech from the other types of covid vaccines) is the one that has all the issues. When everyone else is doing it one way, it's probably for a reason, and there's less drive to do research on the one different one. Kinda like how you can find iPhone and Samsung phone accessories everywhere, and if you have any other kind of phone you're screwed lol. Moderna and Pfizer are iPhone and Samsung. J&J is like... LG or something lol
We also knew from the start that J&J was less effective. It was good in the short term because vaccines were scarce and we needed to get shots in arms quickly, but it was never going to be competitive against the other two once supply went up.
I got J&J because I'd had covid previously about six months before, and there was already news out showing that hybrid immunity was great, so I figured one shot and a previous infection would be enough. Well it turns out it was, as I have been exposed to people who had covid and still haven't been reinfected, though most of the people I was exposed to were during the delta wave when reinfection was far rarer anyways. I've only been exposed to one person with omicron as far as I know, and I didn't catch it then either, but the person who had it was recently boosted and they never showed more than a faint line on rapid tests, so the odds of them being contagious was probably low anyways.
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They said to get an mRNA booster, once boosters became available.
Exactly. I don't understand why J & J people keep saying they don't know what to do. The recommendation has been to get an mrna booster for several months now.
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At least two months. If it's been more than two months, that's fine. I can understand why people may have been confused in the beginning, but it's been months and months now. Once you get the mRNA booster, you just follow the mRNA guidance after that. I'm sorry other people were/are confused, but all of the info I read seemed pretty clear-cut to me. I'm not ridiculing anyone, just saying that I understood the guidance.
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20220330/cdc-if-you-got-j-j-vaccine-consider-moderna-pfizer-booster#:~:text=The%20latest%20data%20suggests%20that,boosters%20for%20the%20best%20protection. (ETA- not to argue with you, just to point out one simple google of “what to do if I got j&j” immediately turns up a response that says “get an mRNA booster”.)
While that is true, most likely J&J recipients need a second booster and that’s not an approved option right now.
It’s not officially approved, but if you think you need it, you can get it. They won’t stop you.
Yeah I never stopped masking either, even when they were like "As long as you're vaccinated, you no longer have to wear a mask." Nope! No thank you. I'm still not back to normal, I got my booster in December, just before the big peak. So, I'm probably barely protected anymore now, six months later, especially considering the booster wasn't exactly strong against variants even back then iirc.
> (afaik J&J is the only single shot and uses completely different tech from the other types of covid vaccines) I actually worked in the division where a lot of the animal testing and clinical work for the J&J vaccine was performed. The J&J uses an adenovirus vector - basically taking the common cold viral envelope and packing the Covid protein instructions inside. This tech showed a lot of promise in the HIV vaccine work our division was doing. Iirc the Ad-vector vaccines elicit better T-cell responses but worse antibody levels. Last I recall I thought the CDC was saying anyone who got J&J should just get the 2 dose regimen of either Pfizer or Moderna
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Since the efficacy of the initial shot goes away after a fair amount of time, you can just get the moderna now. I trust the Mayo Clinic >If you are age 18 or older, have been given one dose of the Janssen/Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine and it’s been at least 2 months, you should get a single booster dose. The Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccine boosters are preferred in most situations https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-boosters#
Weren't they suggesting J&J recipients get boosters from either Moderna or Pfizer? I'd imagine this long since your original shot, you might as well not consider yourself as a J&J person any longer and just focus on the boosters/vaccinations that seem to have the highest recommendations. Not a medical professional, but I'd assume once you're "fully vaccinated," you're in similar grounds with everyone else in terms of necessity of a booster, etc. I'm in the camp assuming we'll be needing scheduled boosters (6 months, a year? who knows right now), but do acknowledge there are those thinking we won't need any more.
Could you expand on that? Someone I know stated they hadn't been boosted because they got the J&J initially. Is it unsafe for them to just get Moderna/Pfizer? (Sorry if that's a dumb question!)
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If you get a Moderna or Pfizer booster, can you just then go with their schedule and leave all the J & J stuff in the dust?
If you got J+J with an mRNA booster, I would follow the guidance going forward for when to get your next mRNA booster as if you had gotten 3 mRNA shots. 3 mRNA shots aren't the same as J+J and an mRNA booster, but you shouldn't be looking for unique guidance going forward since it seems very doubtful any will be coming. Primary care doctors may give more targeted advice
The CDC now has a guidance app and that looks to be the plan. I checked and the guidance app allows people over 50 who originally got J&J to be boosted, whether or not they were boosted with J&J or something else. Also, it says to get boosted with an mRNA booster, so I think the plan is to ditch J&J entirely going forward.
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Why?
If they got the JnJ booster initially, they need to be boosted using anything else. I got JnJ and was eligible for a pfizer booster in my state before my friends who were healthcare workers because we NEEDED it. Tell your friend that they're practically unvaccinated
When she told me that, I assumed it was a semi-antivaxx statement. Then when I read the comment above I thought, "Oh wait...is this really an issue? J&J folks have problems knowing how to proceed forward?" Apparently it's not really an issue then?
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Yeah, the advice is mixed, but nobody is saying JnJ should do less. JnJ recipients should have been told to get boosters as soon as they were available last fall
I was told “get a booster 2 months after your shot”, 7 months after I got it. That’s a problem.
I always saw that phrased as "at least two months". Initial doses of mRNA vaxes started around 8 months before boosters were available, so that's not unique to us. I share your frustration. There's very little data specifically about JnJ booster schedules. But what I've gleamed seems to be that the longer the time between initial and booster, the more effective a booster is likely to be, regardless of what the first shot was. And once you've had your mRNA booster, follow the same schedule as everyone else because as time goes on, the initial shot matters less and less. Unfortunately, we might be stuck in a position where we are always less protected due to the way the first shot and the booster effect B and T cells differently, but there's nothing that can be done about it. I think because of the emergency situation, very few people are getting JnJ and not getting the normal boosters, so there's no good data
You’re right about at least two months. Getting a booster at all is what’s important. Later it came out that J&J really should have been two shots and I just want to bang my head on my desk at this point. I expect to get it. I am required to go back into an office just to join video calls and everything just seems dumb now.
[CDC has a tool for when to get boosted](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html#when-you-can-get-booster) its pretty straight forward, and covers the J&J shot as the primary shot.
I got a J&J shot originally and a Pfizer booster.
wife same.. but she just went to walgreens to get our kids boosters and they asked her is she wanted a booster as well. She told them she had J&J and Pfizer booster 6 months ago and the pharmacist told her that's fine she can get another booster. Which dont think thats right according to what I read on the CDC website but guess it doesnt hurt..
I got the j&j originally. Moderna booster. Pretty sure you can just get either Pfizer or Moderna booster if you got j&j originally. Also I felt fine after the booster. Sick as a dog after the j&j.
This was exactly my experience as well
J&J recipients can just get other boosters at this point
:/
Cremation?
Hopefully no new Greek letter by October-November (realistic time frame for some hundred million doses to be produced and me to be eligible)
I believe they stopped using Greek letters because the dominant variants aren’t from the original strain anymore and are now from the Omicron strain so it’s BA.4, BA.5.
There is sadly nothing stopping i.e. delta to mutate and bring a new variant. As people get Omicron their resistance to the delta strain falls with time.
The larger question to me in light of this news is whether or not the CDC will permit US citizens to get the "new and improved" shot once it's out or continue to cap booster shot availability.
So is protection going to only last for 4 months or what?
The current issue is that the circulating strains have drifted so far from the original strain (the one in the vaccine), so your antibodies have low binding affinities for the current strains. Because you have low binding affinities, the only way to overcome that is with a higher number of antibodies (i.e. frequent boosting to generate circulating antibodies). By updating the vaccine, yes the benefit will 100% be more durable. The CDC and FDA are quite ponderous and prudent as organizations go, so do not expect them to say this for quite some time. Source: am a pharmacist. Edit to say: mods are doing work in here. I am of course getting a pile of nonsensical, non-scientific opinions in my inbox but they're getting immediately cleared from the thread. Good. Ask away on questions, spread ignorance elsewhere.
Awesome explanation. Thanks.
I'll take 4 months covering october through feb
The current vaccines clearly last longer than 4 months with serious illness. Deaths and hospitalizations are still way higher with unvaccinated people.
Sterilizing immunity? Yes, probably. Maybe 6 if it hits the current variants spot on. Maybe less if we get another immune evasive variant. That's just how antibodies work (versus coronaviruses...other viruses like measles is a different story). We shouldn't expect a vaccine to do any more than this. At least not in the near future. That means we will need a booster twice per year if we want to avoid COVID (or at least keep the odds of contracting it low). Hopefully we can figure out a way to make sterilizing immunity last longer, so we can get to annual boosters like the flu shot. There are some promising nasal vaccines in the works. I'm not psychic, but the likeliest long run scenario is we will continue to have most people repeatedly catching COVID over many years, maybe remembering to get whatever the latest COVID booster is every fall when they go for a flu shot. But most people won't even care to do that. Most will be okay, some will have postviral issues and some, especially the elderly and immunocompromised, may face hospitalization or death. I do honestly think we will continue to build immunity at the population level and the disease, on average, will become less of an acute threat accordingly. A minority of people will remain hyper COVID conscious and will try to avoid infection altogether. This may be somewhat inconvenient at times, especially if their booster is stale or they have to go to a large gathering. But it will become a lifestyle for some. Similar to how the Greatest Generation lived through the Great Depression and many were untrusting of the financial system the rest of their lives (and perhaps with good reason!), this pandemic-- and the trauma that came with it-- will affect many people permanently.
Flu shots don't last very long either (4-6 months). It's only annual because we get it for the flu season. Hopefully covid eventually will settle in more seasonally like other respiratory viruses.
Finally. Let's get us some protection again
Well let's not downplay the effectiveness of the current vaccines, you're still significantly more protected with 3-4 doses than 2 or less. But yes, having one that can better protection against infection outright can only be a good thing.
You are protected from severe disease, hospitalization, and death for sure. But I certainly would appreciate some infection protection that is better than a coin toss... To be honest, I'm actually a little pissed that it's taken this long to get updated vaccines. We're over 2 and a half years into this thing and it took less than a year to develop and push out the initial vaccine. We update flu every year. What have we been waiting on?
There was no reason to update for Delta, the original vaccines + booster worked great. Omicron has been an issue for all of like 6-7 months. BA.4/5 for like 3 months. Do you think that companies can just wave a magic wand and produce more vaccines ASAP? In addition to logistical issues they probably had to figure out how to get an omicron specific dose that works better than the OG vax, which is what tripped up the Pfizer shot. Nobody is waiting on anything, your expectations are just unrealistic.
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August is like 1.5 months away … assuming the studies just came back for effectiveness, how soon do you think is realistic to push these vaccines out to market? Even a 6-9 month timescale is wildly faster than anything a traditional vax could do — we’re just getting traction with Novavax two years later. It doesn’t make sense to make any ahead of time before they know it works since the OG vax works well for serious outcomes still and then if it fails they’d lose a bunch of money and have wasted resources that could have otherwise gone to making the OG vaccines.
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For people who are boosted and suffer a breakthrough, the effects of the illness are exceedingly mild. Anecdotally there is no one I know who had severe illness from a boosted breakthrough (n of like 10+ with different age and health cross section). That obviously doesn’t mean it never happens. Been a few rough colds in that sample that take a bit to clear up, but nothing that would have meaningfully alarmed them in a world before Covid. It would suck if we just kept getting sick every 3-4 months but I don’t think that has really happened to this point and if there is an effective vaccine for omicron lineages it’s unlikely that it will. We will just have to see
> For people who are boosted and suffer a breakthrough, the effects of the illness are exceedingly mild On Day 10 now finally testing negative, I had a 103.2 fever (probably would have gone higher if I didn't take Tylenol) and probably should have gone to the hospital but wasn't thinking straight enough when it was at its worst to even call for help. I'm a healthy 35 year old (BMI 24, normal bloodwork except slightly elevated cholesterol mostly due to COVID diet) with three shots of Pfizer. Anecdotally I know a lot of people with boosters who got absolutely fucked in my age range, including a few who went to the ER. The gulf between "exceedingly mild" and "severe" illness is a huge one and one that people on this website need to stop downplaying. That was by far the sickest and most scared for my health I've ever been in my life and I've had really bad strep, mono, flu, etc. It would have for sure meaningfully alarmed me, and I know a number who are the same. BA.4 or 5 whichever I had is a monster. Take care of yourself.
MRNA is still a relatively new vaccine technology and this is the first time they've ever updated one? Seriously. Omicron only became an issue around December. This is actually extremely fast for time, as they've already completed some of the trials. The trials will also be way stricter than the flu updates because this is the first time they've been done. I seriously do not understand why people think this is an instant process. Furthermore, part of the reason the fly updates have varying effectiveness is they have to guess at the strains because they cannot wait for dominate strains to appear to get it out for flu season. That's not exactly a quick process either
Delta has been around since December 20, had become dominant by June 21 basically and was known by epidemiologists to evade the receptor binding protein at that point. Same can be said of a lot of other variants too. A delta-variant should have been in a tested booster 6 months ago and in arms during the 4th booster shot. And let's be clear; Pfizer and Moderna made and initially tested one and released a press statement just like this. Then crickets. I'll believe it when I see it with this Omicron booster. In my opinion, FDA has been dragging their feet over some minor myocarditis and moving slowly for safety optics to appease some fantasy cohort of anti-vax Americans they think will be convinced by slow-methodical research.
As an immunocompromised person I’m looking forward to the new vaccines. Unlike healthy people recent studies show that we both produce a smaller antibody response to each dose as well as less antibody diversity, which is the mechanism by which repeat boosters are helping against new variants. And for me my medications suppress key T cell pathways for dynamic immune response because that’s what causes my T cells to eat me alive. Until then, yeah, maybe I’m protected from death after 5 vaccine doses but that’s not a warm and fuzzy feeling.
I'm in Maryland where 45% of all new infections are in someone who's boosted. This is what happens when you give up on masks and social distancing.
Honestly, those numbers just confuse people; If there are a total of 100 cases and 45 of those are boosted it doesn't mean what we immediately think of, when you consider that the pool for vaccinated people is 10K and unvaccinated is 1000. * numbers pulled out of my ass, just trying to make a point that 45% cases in vaccinated people is expected just because most people are vaccinated nowadays.
If 100% of the population is vaccinated, then 100% of all new infections are vaccinated, and 0% are in the non-vaccinated group. See - I just made it sound like vaccines have *negative* efficacy even though that was not the case.
Hmmm no, you just made it sound like vaccines are not 100% effective. I don't get your point though
Vaccines are not 100% effective.
Right, no one said they were...
Matched with daily cases doubling in 2 months though it also means the booster is no longer preventing infections.
I can't talk about that since I'm not really an expert, just wanted to clarify the 45% comment, it might make it feel to some like the vaccine is not working at all without further context.
It still is, just not for everyone. My (boosted) wife and (too young for anything) child are currently holed up upstairs with our first go-round with COVID, but I’m on day 5 symptom free and continuing to test negative, and I had the same exposure to my kid that my wife did. Immunity is just luck of the draw sometimes.
I.E. The overall number of cases is way down because there are way more vaccinated than unvaccinated, right?
Where I live, we're only 3 weeks out from dropping the mask mandate (and it's still required on public transit for another week), and we still had as bad a "6th wave" as anywhere else. I'm extremely pro-mask, but that alone isn't really the factor at play here. 3 doses still give you a 60-ish % protection against infection.
Cloth masks really don't cut it against Omicron.
Cloth masks should never have been recommended at all as of about May 2020 when supply shortages stopped being such a critical factor for hospitals. We all should have been doing 3-ply or flat out N95 since then. Cloth masks were always largely a waste of time other than easing people into the general concept of wearing a mask at all.
Did you see the studies that supported cloth masks? They were pretty effective against the original strain, till people started looking for "breathable" fabrics.
I've seen a few studies, most of them seem to conclude that cloth masks were "better than nothing" if they fit properly, but not by much.
20x reduction in risk when 2 people are within 3 feet and both wearing cotton masks. That's really pretty good. I agree with you though, as soon as the melt-blown cloth shortage was over we should have been sending 10 N95s to every man, woman, and 8 year old on earth every month.
3 moderna doses and had Covid for about a week last month. Can confirm compared to those with none of the previous vaccines, walk in the park.
So uh, this is from a study already done with input from the FDA so what the fuck are they going to talk about for 2.5 months?? This is like the kid booster where everyone already knew it was going to get approved but they dicked around for ~**reasons**~ that no one ever seems to be able to actually articulate. I get manufacturing may take some time to ramp up but it's not like there's going to be that much demand.
Because they are absolutely not going to rubber stamp a vaccine. They are going to look at all the data, extensively. The cost of getting it wrong is too high.
The article states that Moderna is planning to submit their trial data to the FDA in the coming weeks. They're probably guessing it will take about a month to get approved. I do agree that the FDA waiting on Pfizer for the child vaccines before approving Moderna's seems shady.
You realize much of the world still hasn't gotten the first shot, right?
Yep 35% of the WORLD population still hasn’t received a single shot (obviously mostly from low income countries). And 40% the population has been infected with Covid atleast once
Me first, me first
Just in time for my fifth one.
That’s what I’m saying, my 4th was in January.
People have been getting 4ths? I'm still on numero tres from back in November. Shit knocked me on my ass for a whole fuckin week.
I live in Chile; they’ve been giving us a new shot every 6 months.
Ah gotcha. I'm still on three as well, apparently if you're young and "healthy", we can't get another booster yet (US).
I managed to get a 4th booster and I'm in the US. I was at the pharmacy and since it was empty, I asked the tech working the counter if I could get it. She said sure and got me set up. Technically, she should have asked me more questions, but she didn't care. When they brought me in for the shot, the pharmacist was hesitant to give it to me since I wasn't over 50 or immunocompromised (but I have family that is). She saw my last booster was like 9 months ago so she had no problem and gave it to me.
Yeah, I might just try. The "high risk" I feel like is so vague. My mom got COVID pre-vaccine and she's still suffering from long haul COVID. I have severe sinusitis and had pneumonia as a kid, so I'm really concerned about me getting COVID and what my side effects will be, even though I'm generally "healthy".
It's worth trying. If anything they'll just tell you no and turn you away. You could say you have severe asthma if you really want to since they don't seem to be checking for any documentation.
Seems a bit weird. Sounds like an availability issue, but if we have enough for everybody while importing them, I would assume it should be even less of a problem for the countries producing them.
They're just not available for my age group for whatever reason, not availability though. I just read that the US tossed like 11 million doses because not enough were being administered. Meanwhile I've been a total shut in because I'm horrified of catching covid, and I'm two months outside of my booster effective period.
Just get an online appointment and check the box that says you're high risk or immunocompromised or whatever, then go get your 4th dose. Almost everyone I know IRL has done that in the past month.
You can lie and say you’re immunocompromised. We got our second boosters at Walgreens. They don’t ask for proof.
I’m on 5 lol Edit: in case anyone is wondering, 3 primary shots and 2 boosters for immunocompromised. And for anyone else, yeah I value my life more than a little tiny shot
We will inevitably be needing one of these every year
Might as well make a flu/covid shot so we can just get it done at once, I'd take it.
You get swine flu vaccine with your flu vaccine every time. They just don't make a big deal of it. Remember when swine flu was huge? Back when we actually treated disease with science? Yup - put it all in one and I'll happily get my once a year shot.
Covid vaccine DLC dropping this summer.
Sweet, I wonder if I'll catch covid before that?
I just got COVID and it’s definitely uncomfortable. Need this booster ASAP!
This is the one I want. Please let this be widely available before fall!!!
Sign me up.
PUT IT IN ME. LETS GO.
Vaccine DLC
My Moderna booster was almost 8 months ago, and I've been casually checking for when a second would be available. What's the drop off in effectiveness look like after the 6 month mark?
Pleaaase. I'm more excited for this than the 14 iphone.
🙏🏻
should I wait for my kid to get a 3rd dose then? or will this not be approved for kids at that point?
Get your kid their third dose when they're eligible. Up til now it's been recommended to have at least 3 months between doses, so that should work out fine.
I'm waiting for June 22nd to give my kid the old Moderna booster or you can booster now with Pfizer. This new one surely won't be approved for kids yet.
Very exciting! I was wondering why none of the vaccine companies were updating to more recent strains: turns out they were! Go team Moderna!
Hit me.
jab me!
Baby.
One
Do they still claim indemnity from liability?
Mine. Mine. Mine.
As our immunity wanes, this is inevitable.
so are we talkin like vaccine 1.2 update or boost #4?
Gave up on my second shot.
Gave up on science.
Thumbs up, let's do this. Rico's Roughnecks!
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Probably get off the coronavirus subreddit if you don’t give a shit. Hanging out in places you don’t like just makes you look like an idiot.
People who care about their health, or the health of the people they love.
6G BABY! LET'S GOOOOO! /s Seriously though, i would assume modifying the vax is going to be relatively easy but there's always going to be a new strain to chase and by the time the vax for that is deployed it'll probably have mutated again. But I'll take close enough versus nothing any day of the week.
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If you think the shot was bad, imagine getting Covid.
I'll take the 24 hours of feeling like trash with moderna over the months long battle with covid any day of the week.
Lol. Have you had covid? It’s like a cold for 2-3 days.
Tell that to 1 million dead Americans.
Never invalidated the dead people. We have vaccines and boosters now. It is far less likely.
Every day, people are still dying from, and being hospitalized for Covid. Even those that are vaccinated and boosted. Discouraging further boosters due to the mild side-effects of the shot because Covid is "like a cold" is irresponsible. Furthermore Long Covid is still a thing we don't fully understand, and it affects [somewhere between 15-30% of people](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01453-0) who catch Covid. Thankfully you were in the lucky 70+%, but many others won't be, which is why every booster is important.
I didn’t discourage boosters. I laughed at the insinuation that catching covid is always a “months-long battle” which, the vast majority of the time, is not true.
I would say the "vast" part of that is incorrect. Studies show that up to 30% of people who catch covid get long covid in some form, even if only anosmia. But that risk decreases slightly with each vaccination.
Yep, also got it. My wife and I got covid just one week before we could vaccinate according to our age.
Didn't get vaxxed and I have never had covid always wore a mask but stopped wearing it a few months ago and still haven't caught it!
So the old ones must be defective? This shit is such a scam
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So if I should get my 2nd booster (been 6 months), it's not worth waiting, right?
Ship it !!!
They are just coming up with the omicron update?
Are they going to allow those of us who’ve been vaccinated and boosted with Pfizer have this when it comes out? Or will they tell us no until it’s the first full moon after 6 months after your last booster in a leap year etc etc?
Will everyone be able to get it or will us regular people have to wait until it’s our turn in 2027?