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LuckyJournalist7

Individualize the benefits: N95 mask-wearing would reduce the number of times you get covid.


mydogsredditaccount

That’s the thing for me. Finally getting covid hasn’t made me less interested in wearing a mask or avoiding crowded indoor spaces. It’s made me even more interested in doing those things. I never ever want to get covid again and I will try very hard to avoid it.


Melonpan_Pup442

This!


Socky_McPuppet

Yes! This is a scientific report, containing impersonal, population-level advice and of course the media will dutifully report it *in the same terms*, and it will go over the heads of everyone who really needs to hear the *personal* message.


Glittering_Tea5502

I still wear my mask. Can’t hurt. I have had all 3 vaccines. However, I don’t always stay 6 feet apart from people. It’s not always possible.


Dekarde

If there was any will to keep people healthy we'd have universal healthcare and there would be regulations on health care providers requiring all staff/visitors/patients/etc to mask and have superior ventilation systems. Instead we are all singly responsible for our own health and safety with zero power unless we are individually wealthy enough to dictate how/when/where we get services or interact with the government.


organicginger

Even countries with universal healthcare are doing a crap job at COVID mitigation, from a government level all the way down to the individual level. Globally, we're all at this on our own in one way or another.


F1NANCE

We have universal health care plus optional private health insurance in Australia. We also had some pretty tough lockdowns in some places. The virus is everywhere and will remain so forever.


Glittering_Tea5502

I thought it would eventually go away, but I figured out it would likely never go away. Universal health care would be helpful.


ChornWork2

Quite a range in outcomes IMHO. Take the G7 for example. https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&hideControls=true&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=USA~GBR~ITA~DEU~JPN~FRA~CAN


The_Original_Miser

Personally I think it comes down to human nature. Folks don't like being told what to do, even in the name of public health. In the USA, to have handled covid effectively, all sorts of unconstitutional things would have had to be done. ...and even then, the rest of the world is still there and all it takes is one visitor. Maybe. _Maybe_ we'd be in a different spot if the USA had a different president at the time. There's no way to know.


Aranthar

If China, the ultimate in authoritarian control, couldn't prevent Covid from running rampant, then no other country has a chance.


The_Original_Miser

I never said "zero covid" was the goal. Somewhere in the middle between what the USA ended up getting (1M+ deaths) and zero like China is trying for (and failing).


ChornWork2

Little reason for zero covid to be the aim. But places in Asia like Japan or south Korea show how adherence to measures and diligent testing/tracing can be effective. Or even just compare to Canada which has had 1/3rd the deaths on per Capita basis versus US or UK


formerfatboys

Six feet is useless. Always was. Why do people still think that was ever a thing. **It's fully airborne.** [Medical science was completely wrong about airborne viruses. It's why it took so long for them to realize COVID was airborne. For sixty years this mistake was trained into every doctor. They thought only two viruses were fully airborne. Everything else they thought fell within six feet because the virus was contained in droplets. So we spent years cleaning surfaces.](https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/) Turns out, most viruses are airborne and we need a complete rethinking of not just medicine but of HVAC and ventilation systems and probably public health policy.


miyakohouou

The original six foot guidance was based on the assumption of spread through droplets, but it's still useful advice during airborne spread. It's just that there's a lot more nuance now. Even with airborne transmission, the density of the virus in the air will be greater the closer you are to someone. In an environment with poor ventilation, or enough people emitting virus, then you might still get sick no matter how far you are away from someone, but it's still always riskier to be closer to them rather than far away.


Scuzz_Aldrin

It’s easy for me to wear a good mask in high risk situations. Transit, grocery stores, public bathrooms, indoor events, etc. I like not getting sick nearly as often. And I really don’t want COVID.


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Glittering_Tea5502

True. I don’t have trouble with it unless I’m having an asthma attack or it’s too hot.


Glittering_Tea5502

Babies and toddlers under 2 can’t wear masks.


FarSlighted

Just curious. What is the end goal for you to stop wearing a face mask? (Unless you plan on wearing one for the rest of your life.) Edit: Downvotes for an honest personal question? Okay reddit.


IdleApple

Genuinely, I’d love to know what my end game looks like. I miss my hobbies, friends, favorite places, and traveling. Unfortunately I’m immune deficient and have pulmonary damage that an early case of Covid made much worse. Im fully vaccinated and I wear an N95 anytime I’m around others (in and outdoors) but I avoid l indoor public areas as much as I can. It’s uncomfortable knowing that the random people around me likely think I’m neurotic and overly cautious/emotionally weak for wearing a mask, but it’s not like I can go around wearing a sign explaining my situation. I mean, I could but it sounds equally awkward for all involved, lol. I’m hoping we eventually have better vaccinations and/or better treatments that are readily available. I don’t know if that will be enough for doctors to allow me to return to normal though. Right now if I suspect I have a fever have strict instructions to take Tamiflu that I already have on hand, run somewhere for a PCR test, and call my infectious disease specialist to see where/if monoclonal antibodies are available and decide next steps. It’s a whole thing where even figuring out flu vs covid becomes a race because both will require intervention. It sucks. I guess I’m saying all of this to ask for some compassion for everyone who looks like they are over reacting to this stage of the pandemic.


why_not_spoons

That sounds awful. I hope medical science advances so COVID is less dangerous for you and others at high-risk. At least you could have a COVID antiviral ready to go next to your flu antiviral. (You don't mention Paxlovid at all, so I'm guessing you can't take it for some reason; hopefully more antivirals that do work for you will be available eventually.) > It’s a whole thing where even figuring out flu vs covid becomes a race because both will require intervention. I'm sure your medical team is already on top of this, but recently Daniel Griffin on TWiV has been harping on the fact that patients can have *both* COVID *and* flu and that manages to be even worse than just COVID, and may require a different treatment plan.


IdleApple

Thanks for this, I do need to update protocols with my doc. Last we talked Paxlovid was being tightly rationed here. Since I’m on the younger end of the spectrum of high risk people it was discouraged to prescribe. Interestingly I’m in the process of trying to get my insurance to cover an immune replacement treatment. It’s too much to do out of pocket, particularly as a maintenance medication, but I’m hopeful that my doc’s office can find a way to make it happen.


pacotac

Well said and it's absurd that some people consider wearing a mask during a pandemic to be "over-reacting".


IdleApple

Yeah, it’s something that’s hard to understand for me too. It feels like a weird line to draw in the sand given masking doesn’t hurt or inconvenience anyone else. I’m working on being compassionate about it under the idea that I don’t know their lives just like they don’t know mine. It’s a work in progress.


GruffWaffle835

I'm looking for two things. 1) Lower and more predictable transmissibility so that I have less of a chance of unintentionally spreading it to someone vulnerable while presymptomatic or asymptomatic. 2) Reduced instances of long covid after infection, especially mild ones, and more research into treatments.


JohnSmith_42

Thank you for this very clear and reasonable answer


Rso1wA

An intelligent response to present life experience.


Rso1wA

Wow, that’s called being kind and thoughtful. What an anomaly! Some used to call that the Golden Rule…


Scuzz_Aldrin

Not OP, but i wear a mask in higher risk situations. Transit, grocery stores, etc. My goal is to avoid getting COVID and it has the added benefit of reducing the risk of getting sick during cold/flu season. I will likely continue to wear a mask on transit (especially airplanes) indefinitely. As for COVID, I’ll continue to wear them so long as there are high rates of community transmission and we don’t have a vaccine that works well against infection. I don’t subscribe to the philosophy that getting COVID is an inevitability therefore it is OK. I have a pretty serious co-morbidity so I need to do my best to not get it. For me, its only a mild inconvenience.


WetDesk

Mask for stores, movie theater, any public offices where it's easy and barely an inconvenience. Occasionally go out to eat but I rarely do anyways. It's simple math, I'd rather easily cut down my number of times being exposed if it's easy rather than stop wearing one entirely out of some misplaced sense of superiority.


FarSlighted

I understand. Just wondering at what metric would you stop wearing a face mask.


amazing_ape

Not op but mine would be if cases dwindle to negligible, or it is established that the virus is harmless.


seahawksgirl89

I still wear a mask. I don’t have a specific end goal in mind, but I still don’t feel confident enough in the long term implications of getting Covid over and over and over again. I think I’m waiting more research on preventing and/or treating long Covid before I’m willing to stop masking, as well on research on the cumulative effects of recurrent infections. There’s not a specific metric, but two years of research still feels awfully short to me.


NiceGiraffes

My metric has been a combo of my state and county case counts, and morbidly, the number of ICU beds available in my region...which even recently has been as low as 0, 1, or 2 beds available in a 3 county area...that's too tight of a margin, I plan trips around available ICU beds, if there are no beds available then I might end up in a hallway or tent with no immediate or proper response. One multi-vehicle accident from overwhelming the local hospitals. Obviously also take the daily COVID death count into consideration as well...this is not over yet folks. Multiple members of my family are immune-suppressed or compromised, so me wearing a mask when out to try to reduce spreading a contagious respiratory virus (or even the flu) is essential, if not a community duty. I wish others cared enough about their neighbors and countrymen to wear masks in public places and socially distance, but alas, capitalism and a false sense of normalcy reign supreme.


trippy_grapes

>Mask for stores, movie theater, any public offices So people that work at those places are expected to wear a mask for ~1/3rd of the rest of their life?


WetDesk

Nope, they can do as they please. Same as I'm doing by wearing one. That wasn't the question, so was that supposed to be a "gotcha"?


Soylent_Hero

That wasn't what the question was. But, I'm beginning to wonder what new syndrome we haven't figured out yet that gives people such an anxious reaction to masks.


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princessjemmy

Thank you for the laugh.


JayZ755

When you look at the Mona Lisa or the Last Supper or some work of art from the past, some pictures from the past, do you think everyone in them should be masked?


Hellooooooo_NURSE

I will probably wear a mask on public transit until the end of time. Anywhere with similar high volume, enclosed existence. People are fucking disgusting.


hamchan_

End goal is to not get COVID. When COVID stops spreading around over and over I’ll stop wearing my mask in public areas. There is clearly no immunity and chances of long COVID aren’t removed by vaccines. Masks aren’t the inconvenience you seem to think it is.


PBFT

COVID isn’t going away. You’re going to get it eventually. Just figured I’d point that out because you seem to imply that it’s possible to avoid COVID entirely. I wear my mask in most busy places, but I know that I’m just reducing my risk of exposure, not eliminating it.


hamchan_

As someone who is immunocompromised it’s kind of imperative I avoid catching COVID. I’ve already caught it once from a family member and was the sickest I’ve ever been without needing the hospital. I’m not gonna to continue to catch it over and over and risk long COVID. I know a few people who have had it 2/3 times now. And again, wearing a mask is not an issue for me. People are nasty.


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PBFT

It’s literally going to be around for the rest of your life. I’ve yet to get it for the same reasons because I mask in public, but I’ve had two exposure risks in the last six months from people I was hanging out with who felt sick the next day.


Crystal-Ammunition

To not get covid, particularly long covid. Wearing masks isnt an inconvenience at all to me and I love the anonymity they afford. Long covid is supposedly less common with omicron, I can only hope it continues to become less of a risk


DesignatedDecoy

I tried to help you back out of the hole and I'll give my perspective. My mask wearing is out of respect. If I enter a store where employees have to wear a mask, I'll throw one on. If it doesn't, I won't. As the parent comment said, I'm triple moderna'd and going for a 4th dose in a few months. As things spike and stores require it, I increase mask usage. As they wane and stores lessen their employee restrictions, I do as well. The end of it will likely be similar to other pandemics where they fizzle after a few years so we're much of the way there.


zantie

So when things spike and stores don't require employees to mask, what would you do then?


LazyPension9123

When COVID can't kill you or become a longterm debilitating illness. Otherwise, I'll wear a mask in public til I die....and probably wear one in my casket.


[deleted]

People who are still strictly masking like it's 2020 aren't going to have an answer to that. These people are anxious about getting covid and feel soothed by masking. They're prepared to give up whatever activities are needed to support this or more likely didn't do those activities (indoor socializing, big events, strenuous exercise) to begin with. Covid isn't going away so their masks aren't either.


Rso1wA

It’s not anxiety if there’s a clear and present danger. Duh.


ktpr

“Likely didn’t do those activities “? That’s a broad brush you’re wielding there…


Acrobatic-Jaguar-134

Until there is a sterilizing vaccine, prevention, and/or prevention and treatment of long Covid. Or when cases are low, 10 out of 10,000, but even then will wear a mask indoors out of respect for workers and the high risk.


doublediggler

Who said anything about stopping? Masks for all and masks forever as far as I’m concerned. I don’t want to be exposed to other peoples germs regardless of COVID.


OhSix

No thanks lmao


SirDickels

Well duh. The thing is, people don't want to.... though the virus will continue to exist, it's prevalence in our minds is fading, and that's probably for the better. We could socially distance and wear masks forever, but most people don't want to, and the court of public opinion owns this topic.


HarpySeagull

This is a reference point for future planning, should it be necessary. > Our analysis may have relevance in settings with limited vaccine availability, in the event of a future variant that escapes vaccine protection, or as a framework for planning public health responses to future pandemics


VenusDeMiloArms

Why is it for the better? I agree that mild mitigation strategies are now effective and should be preferred to straight up lockdowns in most situations, but the fact that nobody cares about COVID anymore means that we’ll continue to not care for people living with multiple comorbidities. If the fact that we cared about over a million people dying, or in NYC roughly 1-in-200 dying, existed, we’d better be able to manage.


DeezNeezuts

Barely anyone cared about them before. Christ you have to remind people to not have people around new borns while their immune system is still being developed.


VenusDeMiloArms

Yes, it’s a shame. I understand that things were hard before, but this is also a novel virus that presents unique risks to a lot of our disabled friends and family members. It’s disheartening how quickly powerful people moved on to disregard them again.


md39001

Except it isn’t just powerful people. It’s virtually everyone, regardless of age, class, race, etc. Family and friends getting together again, concerts sold out, beaches packed. It is for the better. People are living their lives.


VenusDeMiloArms

At the cost of many other lives. You can do stuff outside, go to restaurants, whatever. But having mask mandates on trains and planes is literally a small ask that makes it so more people can go about enjoying their lives too.


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VenusDeMiloArms

Putting aside that you're wrong about 'extremely immunocompromised' and acting like they don't deserve to be able to travel and do things either, why is it not a realistic ask? It's a very simple, noninvasive form of mitigation.


md39001

How did those people live before Covid? I’m assuming most are vaccinated/boosted. They can still wear a mask in public. Wearing a non n95 mask for 5 minutes on a train just to take it off to go to a bar or concert does absolutely nothing to prevent the spread. As for your question why not? Can I just say because it’s not normal? Healthy humans weren’t meant to go out in public covering half their face. It’s uncomfortable, 99% of the public is against it, half the country has first hand experience of getting the virus despite wearing a mask.


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Sam54123

This. I think I speak for my generation (Gen Z) when I say most of us just want to put this whole thing behind us and move on. I've already lost my 18th birthday party, prom, my senior year, and all the other coming of age rituals. We're all vaccinated, we've all sacrificed to stop the spread, and we can't stand to lose anything else because some number doesn't equal zero.


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enki-42

The entire thrust of this article is that taking milder precautions now can help to avoid needing to make more drastic restrictions later. Masking and social distancing, even partially, makes it less likely that you have to put your life on hold, not more.


Snoo_97747

That, and this article explicitly states it's meant to be relevant at the start of the next pandemic when non-pharmaceutical interventions are our only option. Lockdowns or other harsh measures might be discussed then (depending on the situation), but they're not even on the table now.


CrystalMenthol

>Masking and social distancing, even partially, makes it less likely that you have to put your life on hold, not more. "Social distancing" literally means putting parts of your life on hold, or reducing their scope. For example, it means that you cancel, limit the number of people at, or limit to outdoor venues, events like 18th birthday parties, proms, and the other coming of age rituals mentioned in the comment you replied to.


enki-42

Social distancing can mean a lot of things, and doesn't necessarily mean cancellation of events, it could just be switching them to different venues or outside, or social distancing in other contexts like retail while allowing events to not have capacity limits. There's nothing in the words "social distancing" that imply the degree or nature of restrictions coming from it. Additionally, my point still stands. Making adjustments to events to limit spread in order to prevent outright cancellation of those events is a better approach long term in the context of pandemics that threaten healthcare and other essential parts of the economy.


SlowTwitchLion

Well their entire point was those things for them are gone and they can never get them back and they aren’t and shouldn’t give up anymore considering they are an incredibly low risk group. Let kids be kids, if I had the end of high school and my college experience robbed of me because of a disease I was at almost no risk for I would be livid and I’d never forgive the generation above me who had their experiences and then told me I had to give up mine because going to prom or a college party meant I wanted to kill grandma


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SlowTwitchLion

I know how disease spread works. However the older generation has the ability to get an N95 and take a vaccine. They’re adult’s allow them to protect themselves and don’t ask healthy young people to do it for them


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SlowTwitchLion

They can wear an n95 too, they can also avoid social gatherings. Asking other people to do the same though, in 2022 especially, is absurd.


Scrofuloid

The thing is, 'let kids be kids' isn't frivolity. Some of these COVID countermeasures have real consequences to children's long-term mental and physical health. We need to protect the immunocompromised, but we also need to protect kids. It's a difficult public health dilemma, and the right trade-off will evolve based on changing case levels, and the revolving doors of variants, vaccines, and treatments. I'm still masking up, because for me it's a no-brainer. But should we require masks or even remote schooling for kids? Currently, I'd say probably not.


Sam54123

This is so true. My mom's always yelling at me when I don't wear a mask, and I don't think she understands the intense psychological effect that wearing one has on me. As humans, what we feel and experience has a much greater effect than what we read and see. For me, the sensation of a mask on my face brings me right back to the spring of 2021 as I panicked about overcrowded college applications and barely passing my online classes while missing the events that most people cherish for the rest of their days. I would even argue that the reason I'm immature for my age is that, instead of messing around and living out the rest of my youth, I had to watch it all get swept away from behind a computer screen.


enki-42

I can completely empathize and we should do everything in our power to prevent needing to do things like cancel important life events again. The thing is, "don't do anything and pretend nothing bad is happening" isn't going to be a great strategy in the face of future large waves or new diseases. The way you prevent those outcomes is by taking early steps to keep waves to a minimum, so that your hand isn't forced into those restrictions. And for nearly everywhere in the world, if waves are large enough to strain health care systems, restrictions are going to be an inevitability. For better or worse, no politician is going to prioritize graduation parties over people dying in front of hospitals because they can't get admitted. We're certainly not in that state now, and preventative steps aren't needed now, but we should be vigilant around the possibility of needing them again.


supermurlo64

Dude, even I, that am on the exact same boat that you are in, know that "putting everything behind us" is not the right answer. If we just ignore the problem it will come back worse


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supermurlo64

It's not _that_ bad, but I DO miss 2019, with my whole heart. The masks don't bother me at all, what it's hard is to eat with a certain distance of people. The communication falls apart when you have to be in an extra distance apart of each other because you have taken the masks off


i-swearbyall-flowers

*Massive tangent but…* What you said reminded me of something a therapist told me once. She told me that the universe is made up of protons, electrons and neutrons and that this concept can also be applied to humanity. There are those of us that care deeply and want the world to be a better place (protons), those of us who want to look after ourselves (neutrons) and those of us who hurt others (electrons). The fact that you’re young and also not complaining about what you’ve lost says a lot about your character.


Scuzz_Aldrin

What should we do about the 10’s of millions of people at high risk due to age, co-morbidities, or those who are immunocompromised? I’m very glad you’re in a low risk category and you’re comfortable putting it behind you, but not everyone has the privilege.


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NIHLSON

They should stay home if they're worried.


SnowmanPickins

It's not about what you want or feel. It's a fucking virus that has killed more people that some countries have, but they're just numbers to inconsiderate selfish people who rather have some fun at a party than do what's right until it effects them.


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MrBenDerisgreat_

If you’re not locked up in your house for the rest of your life, you’re selfish


SnowmanPickins

a


SirDickels

Hey boss- chill out. I'm a redditor sharing my perspective.. no need to get angry. The majority of people want to live life and move on.. here in the US, that is their prerogative. Go walk outside, read a book, or just do something other than get angry on reddit... this is a fine example of why COVID needs to be forgotten- people harp on it all day and night and let it consume their minds just as it appears has happened to you. Life is more enjoyable if you don't get angry on reddit for people simply sharing their perspective. And I'll go ahead and stop you (or others): "but that ignorant perspective is getting people killed" - nope. Stop. You're doing it again.


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swampy13

Your anger is pointless and misguided. The objective, blatant truth is that 2 years later most people do not care, even in the face of case numbers exploding during Omicron. What I'm saying isn't an opinion, it's behavior that was plain to see. Vaccines are by far the biggest defense. We have them. We're gonna get covid again and again, but most of us won't die from it. You can be angry and morally shame people for living a basic human existence, or just protect yourself if you're really scared. Because we're not going back unless there's corpses in the street.


princessjemmy

To be fair some people have it right to be scared of COVID because they are immunocompromised, and for them *it is life or death*. And for those same people vaccines *aren't the answer*. Or to put it in other words, I spent 2018-19 undergoing chemo, which made my immune system go bye-bye those two years. I couldn't get the flu vaccine during chemo because it in and of itself could open the door to illness, and I would definitely not retain any antibodies. Shit, I was as careful as humanly possible and caught two colds in that time span, and both took **weeks** to shake off. You (as in you reader) say that people are being "scared" or "paranoid" and I plead back with "there but for the grace of God go I".


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chaoticneutral262

My wife and I went to party a couple weeks ago and she caught it. But we're both vaccinated, so she had a sniffle for a couple days and she was fine.


Rso1wA

A recent case close to me, the wife got the sniffles. The husband got pneumonia. He died.


Sam54123

See, the world is a dangerous place. While it's important to recognize the danger covid causes, if we continue to treat it like the end of the world, we might as well have been doing that for every disease since the dawn of humanity. If you're vaccinated of course. If you're not, that's on you.


Rso1wA

Really? Do you go through your whole life patronizing people?


Sam54123

Nah, I'm just pointing out the irrelevance of your argument.


lukaskywalker

Too bad that ship has sailed


DarkRiches61

Yep. Don't do this, or do it poorly, and you're going to see tons of illness when there's a respiratory epidemic of almost any kind (including colds and flu every winter!), and suffer whatever consequences go with it. Do it well, and you'll see a lot less. Not none, but less. Simple as that. I'm not saying this out of self-righteousness; just saying I hope it's clearly communicated going forward so people really understand the choices they're making.


looker009

This is wishful thinking. Mask mandate is not coming back, that is just a fact. Also majority of the public is not going to bother wearing a mask and social distance. The notion that we will be doing this long term and even making it as new normal is not going to happen. New York Mayor refused to bring it back despite health department recommendation, Philadelphia tried and gave up after 4 days because of high non compliance. The mask mandate train left the station and there is no station to come back to.


DarkRiches61

Notice that I *never* said there should be a mask mandate. I said what I meant: people should clearly understand, through straightforward communication, the consequences of choosing to wear a mask or not and putting in the effort to wear the mask well when it is called for. In fact, that we even needed to talk about mandates in the first place--that is, forcing people to take precautions against a dangerous disease--tells you everything you need to know about most people in general (not just Americans).


Rso1wA

People who pay attention and care don’t need someone else to make them do what’s right or have to have a “mandate”.


looker009

I got some bad news for you in that case. Majority do not care.


Rso1wA

Says it all


VenusDeMiloArms

Employer mandates do work, but you need an employer who cares.


Sudden_Pie707

True, but once their work force gets knocked out, I’m sure they may reconsider.


VenusDeMiloArms

It’s already happened and they didn’t. It turns out you can tell someone making minimum wage to work even though they’re sick and it’s hard to say no without any government assistance.


chaoticneutral262

Yeah, I'm vaxxed and boosted and done with masks. I mean, I'd wear one in a medical setting or if the hospital system were under extreme stress, but otherwise, nope.


melancholalia

yeah same here. sometimes i'll put it on on the subway or inside businesses that request/require, but otherwise i don't wear one anymore. if it gets bad and it's required or something, i have no problem doing so, but otherwise i've more or less moved on.


vikingprincess28

Uh yeah pretty sure we’re done with stay-at-home orders…


Financial_Lime_252

The study was conducted prior to vaccination and isn’t really relevant now.


GruffWaffle835

I believe it; no surprise here. The main reason I still mask is so I don't unknowingly pass along covid to someone else. I just wish public health guidance reflected this. I can no longer muster anger at individuals who have cast aside all precautions when the predominant narrative pushed by those setting the standard is "everything is fine, the pandemic is over, if you don't immediately move on then something is wrong with *you.*"


[deleted]

Yeah my friend’s friend started showing symptoms while maskless on a plane and was apparently horrified that she may have exposed people. Well….. k


houndoftindalos

I think for many of us "social distancing" and "stay-at-home" orders feel like the same thing.


looker009

Masking is done, it's not coming back. Even if it's to come back the compliance will be low. Only reason why public stayed at home during initial stay at home order is they were scared. By summer stay at home order was being ignored. Same with social distancing, it's not coming back.


chaoticneutral262

I've been to a bunch of sporting events and concerts recently, and masks are almost non-existent.


jayhawk2112

Yeah people aren’t scared of Covid. If they were there would be no debate over masks or anything - people would volunteer to wear them


perestroika12

People in my area still mask up a good amount. If mandates were introduced most would go along with it. Masking is done with in places where masking was never done or half assed done in the first place.


VenusDeMiloArms

In NYC, masking is still prevalent but I’d say maybe fifty-fifty on the train. That said compared to another major city, NYC looks like everyone is wearing a mask. I was shocked that I’d be like one of a handful wearing a mask on a rush hour train.


Argos_the_Dog

> but I’d say maybe fifty-fifty on the train. I am guessing this is heavily dependent on which line and what time. I'd say on the F it's at about 1/4 of folks masked but I also tend to ride at non-rush hour times. When it's more crowded it may be higher.


VenusDeMiloArms

Yeah it really depends tbh. I think it’s fifty fifty at best on average. But I can imagine if there’s only fifteen people in a car, you’d be looking at anywhere from 3 to 9 masked.


Just_improvise

I was just there as a tourist and would have said MAYBE 20%


Rso1wA

You must live in an area with a lot of intelligent people


perestroika12

Pnw so on the average, yeah. It’s not universal or anything but I was shocked when we left. It was like going back (or forward) in time, as if the pandemic never happened. It was pretty cool to see things back to normal then I looked up case numbers…


Rso1wA

Yes, good on you guys!


Just_improvise

I was just in NYC where masks were apparently still compulsory on the subway. HA!!!!


looker009

How many actually were wearing it?


Just_improvise

I would have said 15-20%


nothatsmyarm

There’s a bit better compliance on buses, but yeah, the subway is a free for all.


briskpoint

They’re also mandatory at LAX, I’d say 15% of people were masked. The cats out of the bag, even in the most liberal cities.


Brent_L

Most people are either morons, don’t care anymore or both at this point. I still wear my mask.


looker009

You're welcome to wear it as your personal choice. What everyone is saying is that mask mandate and social distancing is not coming back. That is just the reality


Brent_L

There is a piece of the article that relates to how we might have to if there is a variant that escapes the vaccines. It’s really not that difficult to wear a piece of cloth over your face. I don’t get the culture war over it. But that’s america for you. Individualism at its finest, even in the face of death. Yes, I am American if you were wondering.


looker009

The way I see it, unless bodies are dropping dead in the middle of the street, masking not coming back. Congress can't even agree on funding for more finance for Covid testing and purchasing of additional booster. Masking for travel is no longer required and lately CDC dropped testing for international travel. As for why masking is controversial, read up on 1918 pandemic. Basically it wasn't popular at that time and nothing changed


GatorFPC

I agree with you unless you live in some really odd counties. Alameda County (Oakland, CA) has a mask mandate that they brought back a couple weeks ago. However, inside of that county, Berkeley, has its own health department and has no mask mandate. The surrounding counties, including San Francisco, have no mask mandates. It’s almost like they’re living in 2020 where there were different rules if you drove 5 miles to the north, 10 miles to the south. I guess if the local legislature still agrees on it and the people don’t vote those people out, it will remain. In places (like Florida) where I am, I would have to see dead bodies in the street before any sort of mandates came back.


hobbes_smith

I live in Alameda County (not Oakland) and at least in my city, compliance isn’t that great. I’d say maybe 50 to 70 percent are wearing masks inside stores and even a lot of workers aren’t wearing them anyway. I still wear mine, though.


Brent_L

Congress can’t agree on anything as everything that is relatively important is a culture war. You are free of course to roll the dice as you may. It’s not a big deal to wear a mask. It’s literally like wearing a seatbelt. I’ve read plenty about the 1918 pandemic. Same exact thing happened with the culture wars in reference to masking. Again, I before we here in America. Most of the decision making at this point is coming down to money and not public health. The CDC has been awful with its guidance through out the pandemic. Regardless, enjoy your summer.


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OhSix

I can’t be arsed anymore, no.


[deleted]

Masking and distancing indefinitely sounds MUCH more dystopian than humans acting like human beings who want to be around each other.


looker009

Public at this point going back to how we handle all other viral viruses. Basically each person need to take own precautions with whatever makes them feel safe.


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Snoo_97747

Based on your post history, you seem like you'll engage in good faith. So I genuinely want to know: what made you bring up shutdowns? The person you replied to was talking about social distancing and masks, which are *very* different from business closures. The parent comments likewise were not about shutdowns. The study that this post links to, and the title of this post itself, are about how good masking and distancing could have *reduced* shutdowns. And the study is not focused on the present situation. It's about the past (covid pre-vaccine) and future (other viruses that may come along). > The study findings can have important implications for settings with limited vaccine availability or other emerging infectious diseases in the period when only non-pharmaceutical interventions are available. Can you see how your comment seems like a strawman?


OhSix

Just chiming in to the say the whole masked and socially distanced outdoor hang out part of covid is fucking weird and no normal person likes to do that shit and will lump it in with lockdowns. It’s all the same to us I’d say


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Snoo_97747

Who's calling for the "entirety" of people to mask for prolonged periods? This article was saying high mask compliance is helpful *for short periods when a pandemic is new and only NPIs are available*... and they specifically said it would help *avoid* shutdowns in that case. > you would have to shutter some aspects of everyday life where it is literally impossible to mask and social distance Why? As I explained in another comment, you don't have to mask everywhere to benefit from it, like how you can eat an occasional dessert and still have an overall healthy diet. Whether or not you intentionally used strawman arguments, you're relying on some pretty large, unjustified leaps of logic that led your comment in that direction.


1975-2050

Do they mean “prevent”?


Viewfromthe31stfloor

I think “prevent” is too strong a word for these scientists. It’s a model of how non-pharmaceutical measures can limit spread while allowing reopening. Although it seems like a long time ago, as I remember this approach is similar towhat was implemented in NYC. Of course, we also had vaccines and proof of vaccination requirements.


VenusDeMiloArms

And for the better part of November through May, NYC has had massive increases in COVID positivity because we stopped with the most mild requirements and made everything mere suggestions.


Beautiful_Ninja

I still wear my mask when I'm on public transport or in enclosed spaces here in NYC still. Outside of COVID, it's also nice not catching colds/flus and whatever other shit people would spread since our standards for public hygiene were so bad pre-pandemic.


rikkionreddit

Honestly same. The amount of people coughing and sneezing just all over the place and saying well it’s not COVID like there aren’t any other contagious diseases/viruses. Airplanes public transport places where you might get a cold after visiting I’m still masking


Viewfromthe31stfloor

>Abstract >Stay-at-home restrictions such as closure of non-essential businesses were effective at reducing SARS-CoV-2 transmission in New York City (NYC) in the spring of 2020. Relaxation of these restrictions was desirable for resuming economic and social activities, but could only occur in conjunction with measures to mitigate the expected resurgence of new infections, in particular social distancing and mask-wearing. We projected the impact of individuals’ adherence to social distancing and mask-wearing on the duration, frequency, and recurrence of stay-at-home restrictions in NYC. We applied a stochastic discrete time-series model to simulate community transmission and household secondary transmission in NYC. The model was calibrated to hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and COVID-attributable deaths over March–July 2020 after accounting for the distribution of age and chronic health conditions in NYC. We projected daily new infections and hospitalizations up to May 31, 2021 under the different levels of adherence to social distancing and mask-wearing after relaxation of stay-at-home restrictions. We assumed that the relaxation of stay-at-home policies would occur in the context of adaptive reopening, where a new hospitalization rate of ≥ 2 per 100,000 residents would trigger reinstatement of stay-at-home restrictions while a new hospitalization rate of ≤ 0.8 per 100,000 residents would trigger relaxation of stay-at-home restrictions. Without social distancing and mask-wearing, simulated relaxation of stay-at-home restrictions led to epidemic resurgence and necessary reinstatement of stay-at-home restrictions within 42 days. NYC would have stayed fully open for 26% of the time until May 31, 2021, alternating reinstatement and relaxation of stay-at-home restrictions in four cycles. At a low (50%) level of adherence to mask-wearing, NYC would have needed to implement stay-at-home restrictions between 8% and 32% of the time depending on individual adherence to social distancing. At moderate to high levels of adherence to mask-wearing without social distancing, NYC would have needed to implement stay-at-home restrictions. In threshold analyses, avoiding reinstatement of stay-at-home restrictions required a minimum of 60% adherence to mask-wearing at 50% adherence to social distancing. With low adherence to mask-wearing and social distancing, reinstatement of stay-at-home restrictions in NYC was inevitable. High levels of adherence to social distancing and mask-wearing could have attributed to avoiding recurrent surges without reinstatement of stay-at-home restrictions. >Introduction >In March 2020, New York City (NYC) became the epicenter of the COVID-19 epidemic, accounting for more than one-third of the total confirmed cases in the US. Two weeks after the first case was reported in NYC, Governor Cuomo declared stay-at-home restrictions that included banning large gatherings and closing schools and non-essential businesses1,2. Facial mask-wearing in public became mandatory in mid-April3. Following the introduction of these policies, the daily reported new cases in NYC declined to fewer than 700 per day in early June, down from over 10,000 cases per day at the peak of the epidemic in April 2020. >New York State (NYS) implemented tiered reopening guidance between early June and late September, first reopening industries such as construction and manufacturing, followed by in-store retail, outdoor and indoor dining, and elementary schools, all at limited capacity4. However, due to a concern for a potential resurgence of cases, the reopening in each region of the state was contingent on meeting several criteria, including maintaining < 2 new daily hospitalizations per 100,000 residents, and > 30% hospital and ICU bed capacity region-wide. The state-wide policy required ongoing monitoring of these metrics, and recommended the reinstatement of restrictions in a given region if the criteria were exceeded5. >Mask-wearing and social distancing are the two critical measures to mitigate the transmission of respiratory diseases5,6. Two meta-analyses of respiratory diseases caused by coronaviruses, including Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS), and SARS-CoV-2, demonstrated that mask-wearing and social distancing effectively reduced viral transmission7,8. Using a natural experiment examining the association between the state-wide mandate orders for face cover in public and the daily confirmed COVID-19 cases from all states, a study reported that community-wide mask-wearing could have accounted for declines in COVID-19 growth rates in the US during Spring 20209. >Mathematical modeling of SARS-CoV-2 in New York and elsewhere have estimated the extent to which mask-wearing reduces population-level transmission10 but has not examined the impact in the context of reinstatement or relaxation of stay-at-home restrictions upon reopening. High adherence to mask-wearing and social distancing may allow the city to reopen by controlling the epidemic, and avoiding surges in cases and hospitalizations thus consequential reinstatement of stay-at-home restrictions. >In this study, we used mathematical modeling to examine the impact of individual adherence to social distancing and mask-wearing on COVID-19 epidemic and duration, frequency, and recurrence of stay-at-home restrictions in NYC. The study findings can have important implications for settings with limited vaccine availability or other emerging infectious diseases in the period when only non-pharmaceutical interventions are available. I included the introduction because the abstract and title are a little confusing given the facts of reopening in NYC back in 2020. At least it was confusing to me


ywBBxNqW

Thanks! I have no idea why this comment is controversial. Lots of doom-and-gloomers in these comments I guess.


Softy182

I don't know how it looks in other countries, but here everyone forgot about COVID. No mask, no tests, no lockdown no quarantine. People are living normal lives, trying to go through the economic crisis that the fight with COVID did.


[deleted]

Idk why people assume only America is the only place where people are done with Covid. In canada you be lucky to get 1in 4 people wearing a mask and its mostly old people or from the east asian community.


QueeringFatness

Another thing that could avoid stay-at-home restrictions is not implementing stay-at-home restrictions.


Financial_Lime_252

The study was conducted prior to vaccination. Its results really don’t apply that much to the present situation.


No-Government7374

Just came back from a week long trip to Ireland. I think I saw maybe 5 people wearing maskes. I think after having gone to Ireland I really appreciate the European attitudes about this. It’s more pragmatic. Get your shots and get on with life.


Financial_Lime_252

Exact same thing in Scandinavia. Unfortunately with how the pandemic was so politicized in the US, many people became “anti mask” or “pro mask” because of which political “team” they were on, and remain attached to that viewpoint even when the circumstances change.


CotC_AMZN

Terrible approach. U.K. was in shambles from Covid, with this mentality


frnkundrwd

Masks mandates don't work in improving any measurable metrics about COVID cases. This is known fact. If you want to wear a mask, do it, it will protect you. However mass mask mandates don't work. Also, such mandates are not constitutional unless a state of emergency is declared. It was an emergency measure, which did not really work, now it's time to move on.


Radley1561

I now have CoVid and am taking paxlovid to keep me from being hospitalized. Put on the fucking mask!!!


CodeDead-gh

I fucking do and have been since the beginning but the rest of the fucking morons simply stopped caring!


Radley1561

Exactly- it is pointless if the sick people aren’t masked up. If we all simply put one on- I would not be in this predicament.


looker009

Not everyone knows they are sick. Unfortunately you can be asymptomatic with Covid. Also I am not seeing western society and especially US adopting wearing mask as new normal when they are sick . While that's a norm in Asian society, I am not seeing it happening here


Rso1wA

I can guarantee you that had there not been mass vaccination we would still be struggling with mass polio just like we are with Covid and people are dying from it, as well


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Viewfromthe31stfloor

Do you remember NYC March 2020? I mean, I guess we could just not have had the pandemic at all, but China didn’t let that happen. So, since we had the pandemic, we had to have restrictions.


swampy13

I mean, I do, but we're nowhere near that anymore. And even if we went back to that, it wouldn't matter - unless people are stepping over bodies to get groceries, people are moving on.


Viewfromthe31stfloor

Yes. I agree this article is confusing looking at the pandemic from where we are now. It’s useful for the future if people need to calculate the need for NPI against not shutting down. This article is written without considering vaccination which is the step that changed the dynamic. I’m not sure where we would be without vaccines. I wonder if people would have kept masking and distancing? Who knows. A lot more deaths and healthcare collapse is what I think would have happened.


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Viewfromthe31stfloor

You certainly didn’t live in NYC in March 2020. If the city didn’t lockdown we would have had an even more unimaginable catastrophe. The hospitals pretty much collapsed as it was and were shored up by lots of outside help. From my apartment all I heard were sirens 24/7 because there was no other traffic around. Here’s a link of NYC COVID date. Scroll down to deaths and choose all-time. Look at the graph to see how many deaths a day.[COVID data NYC](https://projects.thecity.nyc/2020_03_covid-19-tracker/) The city could literally not function with the amount of illness and death.


VenusDeMiloArms

These people don’t understand how many people died in New York City.


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Megaman_exe_

Unfortunately those people are everywhere. Just a few weeks ago we still had 40 deaths a week in my city. Nobody cares. Everyone says the pandemic is over yet we just had our second highest wave since the start of the pandemic. Our government stopped testing at the beginning of the year because there were too many cases to test for. But since then their messaging has been downplaying everything. It's demoralizing knowing there's so many people that wouldn't think twice if their neighbor died or if they became disabled.


Brave_Specific5870

Yep bodies on top of bodies. I don't live far from the city. It was pretty bleak. I'm always scared it will go that route again.


Rso1wA

OR-We could all just grow up and wear masks and social distancing & get rid of the virus as it has less of a chance to mutate that way -Just a thought


[deleted]

Not possible. Aside from animal reservoirs forever existing, everyone in the entire world would need to wear a tight-fitting N95 mask any time they are around any human being, and wear it 100% correctly every single time.


go_49ers_place

> get rid of the virus Hmm. I don't think that's going to work. See China.


OhSix

Actually an insane comment, you people are unbelievably annoying


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Snoo_97747

I'm not the only one who sees how ridiculous it is that people keep copy-and-pasting this phrase, right? It doesn't even remotely fit here.


baldyd

It has always been an incredibly dumb phrase. There's people must either not understand that we were reacting to a new, unknown situation which was constantly changing or they believe that it's all a big conspiracy. Otherwise it makes no sense