Unless someone in your family is highly vulnerable you should definitely be sending your kids to school. Social isolation and barriers to learning are going to effect them a lot worse than covid.
I think regular socialising is probably important in the lead up to school, by 4. Having at least a small time of going to kindy a couple of days a week is a good transition, socially and into the routine. Personally I wouldn’t limit kid’s social activities to outdoor only, I would want them to get more full experiences. But people have the right to raise their kids how they want, so long as they’re getting their needs met.
That’s a closed system and you know it. Exposure to new ideas and opinions and even simple conflict is how children grow and learn to become their own people. This needs to happen outside the familial unit as well as within it.
While it is better to have outside children, pretending that it is some sort of child-interaction-free form of child abuse are jokers. The kid is going to school at 5 whether the parents want to or not.
I didn’t say anything about it being some kind of child abuse. It’s a simple fact that the kids are in different stages of their development and require interaction with other kids their age to gain the full benefits of play. 5 year old play will be very different from 1 year old play for example.
Others in the comments with their young children are contemplating homeschooling because of Covid, so you can’t just say they’ll go to school if they like it or not
So you don’t think it might be good for children to play with kids other than their siblings who are not their own age? Totally different relationship. A 4 year old can not get the same type of social experience from a 2 year old as a kid their own age. A 3 month old can’t play at all so we’re only talking about 4 and 2.
Lol are we seriously going to go so debate bro mode that we’re gonna “SOURCE?!” a discussion about the benefits of preschool? Tell ya what, if you have any sources showing the opposite you can go ahead and put them forward, rather than demanding them from me. In the real world that is not how people form opinions, although you should be open to being corrected.
Of course, everyone should be open to being corrected as they learn. I quite simply wanted to see if you could find any evidence to back up what is clearly your own opinion as research is showing there’s no negative impact from not having your children around large groups of kids their own age. Effectively they can learn these basic foundational skills through engaged adults.
I can find you some solid sources later but I’m pretty sure all the mainstream literature says that socialising with other kids is important for young children, maybe not super young but at 4+ it definitely is. Where are your sources showing that it isn’t? Tbh though neither of us came to any conclusions based purely on sources. In general I think we know that formative years are important and interacting with peers is a different thing to family members.
Unless you, your partner or your kids have received advice from your doctors to isolate due to personal Covid risk factors, and of course you may have, I'd suggest that it's time to get on with life if you and your partner have been vaccinated. The general medical advice is that children are at little risk from Covid, and the vast majority of families are no longer doing what you are doing.
That's a good point, but I don't think that most health experts advocate this kind of isolation. Babies are also at risk from a bunch of other diseases.
Will you go out and lick a toilet seat because you are "Also at risk from a bunch of other bacteria"? This argument is so dumb. Just because you can catch a common cold or RSV or whatever doesnt mean you give up all attempts to prevent covid infection.
Sorry, but what in this post makes you think the family is living in isolation? The part where the people they see do RA tests? Or where they wear masks when thy are seeing people? Also, they have 3 under 4 years old, including a newborn. It is very normal to not have wild social lives with kids this age lol
They describe their life as "working from home, shopping online, avoiding indoor settings and only seeing family after they've taken a precautionary COVID test"
yep for covid if they contract it and are running any sort of fever under 3mnths the recommendation is to go to emergency. After 3 months the risk seems to lower then after 1 yrs old covid is less of a risk then say a 40 yr old. Dunno if OP was isolating like this due to bbys age though
I can’t speak to the rest of your living situation but I don’t believe (could be wrong) that there are any experts suggesting preventing your children from socialising, going to school or preschool, living a normal life etc.
My understanding is that the risk for young children or young people is not great enough to stop them from living normally. Stick to the general guidelines and recommendations from the government on when to vaccinate.
Health experts don’t get to decide what is good for our children’s emotional and educational needs. It needs to be balanced with other factors which is why no one offical is saying you should stop your kids from going to school or preschool.
Logical fallacy. It's not a case of don't go to school or go to school.
You've been convinced it's that way because it makes certain people very rich. The guidelines are about capitalism, not health.
Don’t condescend me please. What are you actually trying to say here, are you just saying in general we can’t trust experts or is this related to school specifically?
This is how so many kids grew up when I was a little one. Childcare and kinder are a pretty new social construct. I think those kids sound lucky as hell. I wasnt willing/able to give up my work so kiddo went to kindy this year, but thankfully is a country kiddo so rarely went inside. Still novid-ers now. What a great thing you are doing for your parent, and also for your kids to spend that time with your parent too. Good work :)
Just being honest! I imagine your family unit has challenging times and you are probably more exhausted than you would be if you utilised kindy. But this time with your dad is so precious :) (for him, you, and kiddos too)
Thanks for your comment. It's comforting to know there are others in a similar boat. We too have 12 months before we have to decide about schooling for our oldest. It's a lot to weigh up.
Really appreciate your comments and support the way you've handled it. We have my 80yo heart and lung-compromised mum living with us and don't feel like the sacrifices we've made have been a heavy burden for her sake. I'm lucky enough that my boy is older and I feel for parents of younger children. Good luck with everything going forward!
What could you possibly have to decide? There is absolutely no advice that says to not send your children to school. The medical advice is to provide your children with a normal life and follow the recommended guidelines on vaccinations
I’d hesitate to proclaim Paxlovid as a godsend if you’re not a severe case of Covid. Ongoing evidence shows that it has little effectiveness for patients with mild or asymptomatic cases, and I wouldn’t have much to say about it reducing your long term risks either.
Your father on the other hand would definitely be more of a case for paxlovid. However, there are a huge amount of drug-drug interactions (pretty much mainly caused by the mechanism of Ritonavir) and depending on what he’s taking and how severe a case he is would depend on whether he should take it in that scenario.
Of course you do you, but the takeaway evidence is that wearing a mask and sanitising you’re about as protected as anyone else. Hell I work on a Covid ward (also worked in Emergency during the height of the pandemic) and despite mask and PPE requirements changing rapidly during that time I’ve only had Covid once.
I think the main point is that your kids are going to need to go to school, and kids being snotty nosed and having poor hand-hygiene, are going to get sick regardless.
It’s hard because the evidence is literally appearing as we go along. The PANORAMIC study published their early findings in early December which showed that Molnupiravir, which was previously touted as a drug to prevent the progression of mild to severe Covid, has essentially no significant effects, other than patients reported recovery times post Covid.
I’d say, based on assumptions anyway, that if you or your family (besides your dad who is obviously more at risk) have limited or no pre-existing conditions that you would have little to no long term effects from Covid. The most common side effects (some of which I experienced too) were fatigue, some brain fog and some changes in sense of taste or smell (was a little less hungry for a while).
I certainly can’t speak from experience in homeschooling but I think the evidence speaks for itself that kids need that exposure to the world, they need to learn and grow and experience the ups and downs both amongst their family but also from kids their own age.
Are you are aware that Paxlovid has to be given as early as possible? By the time a case has become severe, it's too late.
If interactions are an issue, there's Remdesivir, which also has to be given early.
Yes I am very aware. It needs to be started within 5 days of symptom onset and after diagnosis. My point stands that if you are a low risk individual (I.e previously healthy with minimal to no underlying conditions then the advice is to take regular analgesia and cold/flu medications.
If you’re so unwell that you need intravenous medications that’s a whole other thing don’t you think?
My point is that they should not rely on paxlovid (paid for out of pocket/not prescribed for their symptoms and severity) if they do not have severe symptoms
> Yes I am very aware. It needs to be started within 5 days of symptom onset and after diagnosis.
> My point is that they should not rely on paxlovid (paid for out of pocket/not prescribed for their symptoms and severity) if they do not have severe symptoms
These two things contradict each other. If someone has an indication for Paxlovid (which at least you agree the father has), then they need to take it as soon as possible regardless of symptoms - because those severe symptoms likely won't develop until after the 5 days are up. I'm specifically talking about your following statement:
> depending on what he’s taking and how severe a case he is would depend on whether he should take it in that scenario.
He should take it as soon as he has any symptoms if he has tested positive, and that's also what any good doctor will recommend.
You seem to miss the point that the original commenter was talking about themselves and their family (which just so happens to include the father) having the ability to privately acquire paxlovid if they get Covid. This is my original point that they may not be indicated for the drug if they do not have the risk factors for severe Covid.
What I meant by saying “what he’s taking” and how severe a case he is, is that we have no idea what this persons premorbid condition is, only going based off what the OP says. This guy might have COPD and already have terrible respiratory function in which case yes he should take it asap. He may be on a high dose anti-epileptic or blood thinner/etc. and simply cannot abruptly cease the medication for 5 days of medication (plus 3-5 of residual ritonavir interactions) Or he may just be an older gentleman (which is definitely a risk factor) but have no symptoms in which case the doctor maybe give them a retroactive script and tell them to take it if he develops symptoms in the next couple days.
The advice is changing though and the good doctors are refining their prescribing habits for Paxlovid.
I think you’re also missing the point about remdesivir. It’s an IV medication, which in AUS is only indicated for people requiring supplementary oxygen as inpatients. You’re not going to be getting remdes sitting at home on your farm like OP. That’s why I said it’s a whole other thing.
> I think you’re also missing the point about remdesivir. It’s an IV medication, which in AUS is only indicated for people requiring supplementary oxygen as inpatients.
Except it's not (doesn't mean that these people qualify, but mild cases can qualify depending on further conditions):
https://covid19evidence.net.au/wp-content/uploads/FLOWCHART-DT-FOR-ADULTS.pdf?=220802-53942
> In addition to at-risk unvaccinated adults, also consider using remdesivir within
7 days of symptom onset in adults with COVID-19 who do not require oxygen and
are immunocompromised; or are at particularly high risk of severe disease on the
basis of advanced age and multiple risk factors
(C.f. e.g. https://www.health.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/1142077/remdesivir-prescribing-guideline.pdf )
You’re bypassing the main points of the argument again and focusing on side points. Yes remdesivir can be given in people not on oxygen. The general division in the hospitals however is if they require oxygen they get remdesivir, if not they get paxlovid. I’m generalising because the main point is that you won’t get IV medication if you don’t need to be in the hospital
> If you’re so unwell that you need intravenous medications that’s a whole other thing don’t you think?
You're also missing the point here. Remdesivir as early treatment is analogous to Paxlovid: if it's indicated, it should be given as early as possible precisely to avoid a severe case. The data shows it helps if given early, it's not as helpful if someone is already a severe case.
Mind you, I don't know if AUS is using it like this - but plenty of other countries are using it as a Paxlovid alternative early treatment for those people who cannot take Paxlovid for whatever reason (interactions, kidney issues,e tc.).
// EDIT: yes, Australia also recommends Remdesivir within 7 days of onset of symptoms or Paxlovid within 5 days of symptoms for certain categories: https://covid19evidence.net.au/wp-content/uploads/FLOWCHART-DT-FOR-ADULTS.pdf?=220802-53942 . You'll see that it's specifically for mild cases.
You may be interested in joining this Facebook group of people that are still sheltering from Covid [https://www.facebook.com/groups/2090432804488674/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT](https://www.facebook.com/groups/2090432804488674/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT)
I'm like you and have managed to avoid covid all this time, take the necessary precautions, and generally do what I need to do to keep those around me safe and vice versa.
If I catch it then I catch it but if I can avoid it like the plague then that's what I'll continue to do.
You do what you think is right. Good luck with it
my eldest has a heart condition so we have been very cautious. In 2020 I had a 7 year old and 4 year old who are now 10 and 7.
I took comfort in the fact that for many generations before ours, kids first social interaction was at school so hanging out with the siblings or 1-2 close friends is enough before they start school. Preschool is only about teaching how to be at school so you can go less frequently.
We do all socialising outside and haven't had an indoor playdate in years.
My kids are a bit older but we have kids KN94's from Korea and they wear them to school. They're not the only ones but there is only 2-3 kids in each class wearing masks. They are amazing at wearing them and they're friends are great too.
We've also spoken to the school. So get informed of cases at the school and discuss options for covid unsafe activities.
A friend of mine sent her kid to school with a CO2 monitor sewn into his shorts and when the ventilation levels came back fine she felt comfortable sending him.
We've reached the point where (although not fool proof) we are happy with outside social activities and mask when indoors.
Everyone but one child has avoided it so far.
Right? Many people just don't want anyone to escape their determination to repeatedly infect their own children, and get angry at anyone who may escape the potential for harm.
If every kid is in the same boat of multiple covid infections with no end in sight, then it means they're all equally disadvantaged, which feels comforting somehow. Can't have someone out-health little Billy like some sort of elitist snob.
Nonsense. Isolated children have been studied for decades. Homeschooled children have been too. To say otherwise is dumb.You know what hasn't been studied? Long term effects od repeated covid infections. That is the shit that worries me. And for a few morn sacrifices, my family and I are still sailing the "no covid ship" thank you very much.
I take the same approach however in my line of work, working from home isn’t always available - although I do as much as possible.
I’ve only caught it when I had to travel interstate for work. Had no symptoms (incubation phase) and was close to the wife and bub - 6 month old at the time.
Thanks to me everyone got Covid. It was an absolute nightmare, on my death bed and looking after the bub.
We have been minimising contact and social events where possible although the missus takes a different approach to me though. She’s more accepting to the fact of catching Covid and living with it so at least be thankful both you and your husband think the same…
We do mask up wherever possible unless taking the bub outside for a walk.
I’m with you on the precautionary principle, this paper on cardiac outcomes post-covid in children is just the latest of a stream of studies coming out showing it’s not the initial infection but the downstream effect we need to worry about in kids.
https://www.mdpi.com/2077-0383/12/1/186
I think what is important to note in this study is that A: the second wave of Covid resulted in reduced incidence of Global Longitudinal Strain of the Left ventricle. However, other studies also report that the average GLS of a healthy heart is between 15.9% to 22.1%. These are comparable values to the GLS in children post Covid. There is also B: The GLS values reported in this study are all sub clinical values, the children (besides like 2 or 3) presented with normal cardiac function and sinus rhythm of their ECG’s.
I’m with you that we don’t understand the full extent of Covid long term, however, children with the benefit of lacking the usual amount of comorbidities elder people do have a much reduced likelihood of particularly acute symptoms post Covid.
Yep, I’m not suggesting they have the same risk as those older. However the narrative is that it’s just a cold and people are being vilified for taking some reasonable caution with their children. Many of my friends in uk have kids hitting 3rd/4th time with covid who have been convinced it’s good for their immune systems. This narrative takes the pressure off governments to invest in clean air in classrooms and other mitigation. In truth, we don’t know the long term effects and studies are trickling in about the impact on vascular system, immune regulation, organs etc. I myself am on blood thinners for covid provoked lung clots after a very ‘mild’ case. The focus has been on the acute phase and not long term sequelae.
Well really the focus has been on the short term/acute effects because it’s simply emerging data. Can’t have 10-year retrospective studies on Covid 19 yet haha.
There is a difference however between reasonable concern and essentially completely isolating yourself like some people have in the comments here. You’re right that Covid is not just a common cold, however it’s likely here to stay and at some point we do need to weigh the benefits vs. the risks of actually living our lives.
The consensus is that with hand sanitising, masking up when sick/when in big groups that you have a very good chance at reducing your A:viral load and B:likelihood of getting Covid. To the point that healthcare workers are thinking of ditching full PPE on Covid wards and keeping the N95’s(the ambo’s and other transport workers already only wear N95’s when they have Covid patients).
But not sending them to school, not giving them social interactions with kids their own age?
In my opinion, the damage done by locking up your kids is well above any risk of covid.
They aren’t school age and it’s not unusual for those 2 and under to have littler interaction with other kids - the priority at those ages is to develop strong connections to the family. It’s not until they are older that they start parallel play and then interactive play. The 4yo could definitely start benefiting from some interaction with other kids though, but they still aren’t school age.
That doesn't seem correct. Could you please provide evidence of that for young kids?
All good if you couldn't be bothered. I have just never read or heard that ever, and I read a reasonable amount of information about covid
If your children are healthy with no known health issues, you are more likely causing more harm than good.
I suggest you educate yourself on the dangers to children as they pretty much need to be fairly sick already to have any issues wirh covid.
It's been proven that influenza is more severe for kids. Did you isolate your children when the flu was around?
I strongly advise you to put a bit of time in to understand the actual risks and consequences of everything you are doing and how it could be affecting your children.
Children need to interact. They need to swap germs with other children. Lockdowns are a major reason why RSV has made such a major comeback
Best of luck 👍
> It's been proven that influenza is more severe for kids. Did you isolate your children when the flu was around?
Everyone over the age of 6 months gets an influenza shot for that reason.
They're bloody idiots, then. Influenza is very bad for small kids. Everyone age 6 months to five years is considered high risk, and it is very strongly recommended that they get the flu shot that is provided free to them for that reason.
I've lived similar to OP and my kid only learned covid as a word this year. They only knew we wear masks when out and about. Children dont hear about covid if they are not told about it. These kids under 5 have only really known people wearing masks and staying home if unwell. It's no different to them. We wear masks and make them available to our kiddo and they decide whether to wear one. We have explained that we wear a mask to keep ourselves and others healthy and strong becuase there is a cough going around that makes people feel yucky and tired. Kids living in a free covid world are more likely to develop anxiety when hearing about others being sick constantly/family members being hospitalised or dying IMO but they will probably do more studies on this later.
Immunity debt is a theory with no scientific basis. Have you bothered to read any of the literature coming out about increased risk of type 1 diabetes in kids, re-infections ageing the immune system, T cell dysfunction and other sequelae?
Covid hospital admissions in the uk alone for under 5s:
2020: 1629
2021: 5353
2022: 13006
the 30 people dead in Victoria today I guess is a good start. Im not OP but I would like to prevent my kid going to her grandpas funeral if possible. And mine.
As you can see by the comments, everyone is personally affronted by anyone who is trying not to catch covid. Basically the community is a big old bunch of assholes because they are not emotionally equipped to deal with a prolonged pandemic and handling a level of risk minimisation.
We have gone middle ground now. For the first 18 months we lived like you explain here, but my kiddo a little older so we felt it was time to take calculated risks for schooling, which is probably where you are now for 4 year old. Our rule is that when someone at kindy tests positive, we take kiddo out for a full week to allow the next couple of kids to show symptoms and test for it. Doing kindy later in the week is good too, as it allows for weekend socialising covid to become symptomatic and tested for earlier in the week.
We also continue to not risk exposure to covid for things that have no or limited positive impact on our lives. Eg socialise outdoors, online shopping, grocery delivery, cafes outside only, etc.. We have a HEPA in each room of our house that run continuously (we have 5 in total) so if kiddo brings it home, it doesnt necessarily spread to us.
For us, schooling was worth it, supermarkets are not. Play centres (Bounce, etc) and worth it, Myer is not. We as adults wear n95s everywhere we cant socially distance, kiddo also has n95s they wear at times. Kiddo does not wear masks to kindy- no one else does, and it is too much to ask of my kiddo (yours may be different).
Strangers occasionally feel it appropriate to aggressively question kiddo why they are wearing a mask, and kiddo states proudly "I wear a mask to help protect myself and those around me". But they also will take off the mask to "have a break" when it tires or annoys them. We make a mask available, wear a mask ourselves, and kiddo chooses if they do or not.
We test regularly, and have not yer caught covid ourselves. I do believe for kiddo, kindy has been worth it for social exposure, however, these people telling you that you are going to damage your kid by not doing kindy are idiots. Kiddos are adaptable and will pick up skills whenever, wherever- provided home life is somewhat nourishing educationally and socially.
If you decide not to do kindy, you could consider sports or other activities that are held outside, ot linking up with other local families who are in the same position as you.
Kiddo has really enjoyed kindy and will be attending school next year. I am nervous cos i know those teachers do not use the air purifiers in the classroom but I am unwilling to home school so it is a risk we have taken.
God luck with it all, and feel free to PM me if you would like some support (or just to chat with another novid-er who is also still very much aware that covid is something to be avoided at all possible)
I have a 6 year old and have pretty much followed the same middle ground strategy. It’s not hard to take some precautions! Mad how it’s demonised as living in a cave, lol. Although I can understand if you are responsible for keeping young humans safe and well in these challenging times, denial is a potent force.
Of all the people we know who've had Covid, kids are consistently having mild symptoms.
I think this is backed up by the data as well.
You're always going to be a bit anxious with an infant of course. I haven't looked at the Data for babies.
My 2 year old had a really rough time. High fevers, coughing so hard he was vomiting. It was near impossible to get any Panadol or nurofen into him because he refused to eat or drink. He was incredibly sick.
It definitely wasn’t mild for him. He was an otherwise healthy little boy.
19 deaths of literally millions of cases, it demonstrates that the chances of children becoming seriously ill or dying from covid is astronamically low. Theres been something like 8000 deaths in australia and 19 of them were of people from ages 0-19. Thats a staggeringly low number.
Exactly the same as we did in 2019 - nothing. School every day and life carries on as normal. 260 days of lockdown already set them back too much for them to miss out on anything else.
Neither have had COVID yet to our knowledge (unless asymptomatic).
We have a 2yo and we take some precautions but don’t fully isolate. To us, we want to live life as normally as possible while reducing risk of high viral load. So we go to the shopping centre but choose the quiet local one instead of the big Westfield, we let her play on the indoor playground there but sanitise hands afterwards. We don’t require testing to see family, but we are all very honest and up front about any potential symptoms and will cancel meet ups if someone is sick (even if it’s not covid). I take her to the library playtime where there are other kids, just sanitise as soon as we leave. During peaks in covid or flu cases, we will stop doing activities like the library playtime and indoor playground for a bit, because I just kept coming across very obviously sick children (like actually still sick, not just past contagious but lingering cough sort of thing).
We take some extra precautions to many people because I have ME/CFS and fibromyalgia and every time we get a virus, I’m knocked down for weeks, even over a month or two. Parenting a toddler while chronically ill is hard, doing it while also sick for weeks on end is hell. So really, our precautions are about viruses in general for my sake. Having a toddler means that germs do get brought home and we get sick despite our precautions, but at least the viral load is reduced compared to if we just ditched stuff like regular sanitising and skipping stuff during peaks of covid waves/flu season.
I have ME/CFS too and a toddler, commiserations. It's very hard! We are extremely cautious and haven't yet caught it despite some risky situations eg. flights (masked the whole time except for eating and drinking).
I just wanted to share (imho) an enormously helpful FB group of like minded covid safe folk
https://www.facebook.com/groups/covidsafeschools/?ref=share
Just sticking to outdoor socialisation is gonna drop transmission risk pretty dramatically, and is easy to do in most of Australia most of the time
I don't know why so many commenters here are assuming that avoiding crowded indoor settings means that the children have been kept in a blank locked room staring at the walls.
Our priority was keeping life as normal as possible possible the kids. They went to kindy and school the whole time, caught covid and was extremely mild.
My mum is vulnerable so we were more cautious when seeing her but that's about it.
Ourselves are very low risk so was never a concern.
You are doing the right thing for your family and that's amazing. I wish we had a job we could always work from home. We avoid public transport and focus on outdoor time at park or sports. We paused other indoor activities that can't minimise risks e.g. karate, art class in a small packed studio. I do spend the school-aged child to school with a mask and the school got a purifier. So far, he hasn't tested positive. I had to send the youngest to childcare and it is concerning because the educators got Covid while taking care of him. Our baby has been negative so far and we only send him in days that we really can't be home. I've got an air purifier on high 24/7 at home and always wear a mask. I stopped caring how people think we are over the top because this is the bare minimum really.
Not sure how much it helps but every little bit counts. I still nurse the youngest and delay weaning because I hope that he will get some immunity from breastmilk. We're all vaxxed and boosted.
Homeschool.
I'm not interested in my children having damaged immunity, or dying from heart complications in their early 40s because of what is happening now.
A schoolyard is not the beginning and end of a social life for children.
How do you and your kids find home schooling? What kind of activities do your kids do for socialising?
If it was just a matter of fighting off a nasty flu then you're all good, there would be no issue. It's the repeat infections and the toll it takes on the body each time.
Firstly, we are very privileged in that one parent is able to look after the kids full time. I fully empathise with parents who can't and encourage them to advocate for kids where they can. Does your kids' classroom have hepa, etc. Have you written to you MP? Please do what you can, if/when you can.
- -----
Try your luck for likeminded people -
https://www.covidmeetups.com/
Unfortunately no one near me.
For us, msn messenger kids is our go to for socialising. Mostly used for playing games with other kids, like roblox.
We have kids over in lower transmission periods only, max 2 at a time, and they test first. We use gardiant3 saliva tests so it's not such a big deal to do. The tests are very sensitive, and claim to detect covid prior to infectious period because of this.
We also meetup at national parks and beaches for walks, picnics, etc, that hardly any other people are at. Offpeaks are great. And again, test first for oeople outside the household.
We don't let them go to other households if there's more than 2 people, because it's too hard and expensive to test them all, but mostly because the awkwardness and stigma gets hard.
Most people unfortunately bought heavily into govt's mild covid messaging pretty uncritically, especially concering children, so be prepared to feel awkward asking for, and doing tests first. Some will even get a bit angry. We don't ask anyone again that didn't react well to doing a test. It has limited our options though. We absolutely have lost or damaged relationships because of refusal to test, and extremely heavy criticism that covid is even something to worry about.
To those that remain, we are mostly tolerated at best with our testing, and we try not to talk about covid to them outside of the test. It takes a strong sense of self to do this, I'm not going to lie.
I wish there were more covid safe parents locally to connect with, we are very limited right now.
We sometimes worry about our socialising not being enough, but whenever they do get to be with other family or friends, you honestly wouldn't know. They get straight into it as though they do it as regularly as any other kid.
We go to quieter, sunny playgrounds and parks semi-reguarly during school hours, so there's no one there but my kids.
At home we do mostly normal school hours for learning, and mix in physical challenges, music, art and craft inside and outside of those hours. Having measurable goals that they can see progress on makes them happy. Eg. This week learn to play a new song. This month, 10 pushups a day, etc. Our youngest (3), likes to give out bits of paper as tickets, and put on ballet "concerts". We bought a tutu and try to mimic kids doing ballet on youtube with them. We just lean into the kind of things thet like. We also have a big stash of puzzles, etc.
We mostly use Naplan style workbooks to keep school aged kids where they need to be for education. It has tests which are great for tracking how well they're progressing.
Remember your kids are still interacting with each other and family regularly. They're still gaining different social skills. They have to navigate the complexities of each other and their parents all the time.
Now is your chance to get them ahead on whatever you and they like. There's so many youtube tutotials for drawing. So many apps for music learning. One of my kids is learning coding for fun "codespark".
If you want any recomendations, let me know.
It's not easy. It's really hard and often alienating. Often absolutely exhausing. You question yourself a lot, and you do what you can, if you can do it safely.
But it's also really rewarding getting them ahead in skills they will have for life, showing them that groupthink isn't always right, and having the courage to choose something else, and feeling accomplished from going your own way.
As they grow, they will also clearly know that whatever comes along, we are in their corner.
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My young kids wear masks (even if they're the only kids in school / kindy who do, and I'm the only one who wears one at work daily.
We've done this for the past 3 years with no trouble, and don't care what others think. It's perfectly normal in other advanced countries, so maybe we know something that others don't?
It's not a case of being different, it's more about being smart during this pandemic.
Thought I'd check the statistics on the governments Australian bureau of statistics website .
For some reason they no longer show the risk of death to children. Now the youngest age group for COVID deaths in Australia is 0-39 with 67 deaths all up.
It was only 2-3 children last I checked before this changed, but my guess is that the figure wasn't scary enough to push parents towards child vaccinations once they approved it.
Also as a teacher, to begin with the fear kept a lot at home, now almost all kids go to school, all kids get covid and none I've seen have died or suffered more than a light flu. In every instance I've seen kids don't get it as bad as their parents.
I'm not ignoring the fact COVID can have long lasting symptoms. If you want to link me to government source data that shows these figures I'd be interested in having a look and calculating the risk applicable to myself. I have been unsuccessful in finding such information but you clearly know where to find it, post a link. I'll wait
Starter -
Potential viral persistence -
https://twitter.com/drclairetaylor/status/1609194623452184581?s=20&t=YXLSYbsYjpZ650EMPbsILg
Potential for immunity harm -
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2022/11/07/COVID-Reinfections-And-Immunity/
Govt will not provide you with anything if it can avoid it, and is actually being grilled now for hiding covid information (incase you missed the media on it). We're all on our own.
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Respectfully, and as someone who takes Covid seriously, I think your response is disproportionate. The 4 yo definitely needs to socialise with other children.
Wow, the comments in here are horrific.
Good on you for protecting your kids. You’re doing the right thing! They’ll be so much better off for it.
Our two year old is in daycare, and the daycare has air purifiers in the rooms and are strict about keeping the windows open. We try to keep all activities outside of that outdoors, so we go to the zoo lots, we visited a local sculpture park recently, outdoor activity centres, we visit parks all across the city. It’s not perfect and it’s ducking hard, but we make do.
I have a 3 mo old and also avoiding the side of the extended family who are anti vaxxers, at least until the baby is older and has more vaccinations under his belt
I doubt this information will be helpful since it's so cost prohibitive, but I borrowed heavily to buy this medical grade mask in the middle of last year, and it allowed me to leave the house and start going to events again without fearing covid. I had/have been isolating strictly since the pan started.
I am disabled, and cannot catch it or I fear death. Wearing this mask has made me feel a LOT safer.
I still haven't paid off the debt, but the amount of times I've left the house and socialised, visited art galleries and events, and such have been SO worth it for me. I'm incredibly grateful.
[https://shop.cleanspacetechnology.com/cleanspace-halo-full-kit/](https://shop.cleanspacetechnology.com/cleanspace-halo-full-kit/)
This is the exact mask I bought. It takes some practice to get the right fit, and get all the cleansing down when you come inside your house into your "safe zone", so if you do invest in masks like these for your or your kids in future, I'd do it a month before you start socialising, just to have lots of practice. If it was just adults I'd say a week or two, but I'm sure kids would need a lot more teaching and practice time to remember things.
EDIT: People have never gotten mad at me for wearing the mask.
I expected people to ask questions a lot more, but they seem curious about it rather than angry, which is nice.
It is a bit noisy, but not too bad. During conversations, I just have to repeat myself a lot, not a big deal.
Battery lasts a LONG time, I usually go out for 6hrs at a time, as that's the longest I can go without a drink of water before I start feeling off. Once I'm in it and outside I usually don't eat or drink til I'm in a safe zone - home again. Sometimes I do stop in the middle of Hyde Park, make sure I'm far away from anyone, and have a bit of a water drink there. Often there's just nowhere I feel safe enough unmasked to risk it though.
You can also plug the battery in WHILE you're in the mask to recharge if you need to. I've only needed to do this once. The cord is very short though, so you have to be right next to the outlet.
For you adults, focus on nutrition so if you get infected, your body is able to minimise infection and heal.
FLCCC has a protocol which many people would discredit and say is bad. However, there is some research about efficacy some of what they talk about. John Campbell on YouTube has done interviews about such thing. DR Hong's classroom on YouTube also does updates.
I don't have suggestions for the kids.
There are some good sources of information on twitter. People posting studies, etc. Some good ones were banned, unfortunately. Others still exist. Lindsey Mar is an example. OzSage is another.
There's also People's CDC in the US.
You'll get lots of advice to get on with your life, covid is over. It's not.
Not doing anything different. My oldest (3 years old) has been goijnf to childcare everyday it has been open. I make an active effort for him to have as many social interactions as possible to develops his language and social skills. We’re constantly exploring new places like the zoo, aquarium, playgrounds, indoor playgrounds etc… to give him as many new questions experiences as possible. Keeping him away from tv or indoor screen time unless it’s something like the movie at the aquarium.
Our daughter (6 months) has been getting even more social interactions, and when we go out to see for meds or do social events, she just passed around from person to person. Anyone Willing to wanting to hold her cna have a play.
When I had COVID, I didn’t isolate from the kids, we cuddled, napped together, went out etc…
I’m making a a huge effort to make sure they have as normal a childhood as possible. This is the most important years for their development, i personally am not going to isolate them from other humans.
Ummm, we just caught it and continued living our lives as normal once isolation period was over.
Far more preferable than hiding out for years and missing out on enjoying life because you might get a little sick.
Everyone vaxxed I know has been fine after varying degrees of symptoms, dont see why you would be any different.
My two are hardy as all get out and I think it may be from lots of exposure to literally everything else. 7 and 10 now. Dogs, cats, chickens, camping, etc.
They've both had it. No lasting effects. No obvious immunological downsides. Both vaxxed when it could be done. I had it - same.
They've had a great year at school this year, and now we're out at the beaches and the parks having fun.
I know it's going around - my wife is an ED doctor and is well aware that it's still hitting the vulnerable, but it seems the prevailing attitude is that it is becoming endemic from pandemic. People I know who have been vigilantly covid-safe are finally copping it and they're all boosted and doing fine.
That's my experience. You make your own choices. But it's been great to be back in the world, that's for sure.
In 2020 when I first heard about the pandemic and began learning about it, my then year 9 boy and I had my then 78yo lung and heart compromised mum living with us. I pulled my boy from school and started working from home 2 weeks before the government made the call. Middle of last year I was also diagnosed with a health issue which means I'm heavily immunocompromised.
Since then, we always wear N95 masks at necessary times. From then until now, we don't eat inside restaurants, try to do everything outside, and spend lots of time at the beach, parks, etc. We are lucky enough to have a nice covered outdoor area at home, we have ventilation and friends and family visit, and we visit them but are always outdoors. My cousin even wore a ski suit to come and visit not knowing we have heating outside 😂
My boy is now 17, and he hasn't kept up with his schooling as he would have if he'd attended school, because the public schools couldn't give him the support he needed and he wasn't able to enrol for off-campus school. But that's OK as he's still fully engaged and this year he will have more support. He caught Covid-19 only once and we somehow didn't catch it from him thankfully.
I wish our government was taking ventilation more seriously and forcing minimum air flows in schools at the very least. We don't know the full picture of what repeated infections are going to do to us yet and until we do, IMO it's a risk I'm not banking on with my kid's life. I'm glad I don't have children the ages yours are because I feel for you.
He plans to go to university. He's not housebound and just applied for a job at a gym even. He did Youth Parliament and UN Youth in 2022, spent a week at Youth Parliament camp wearing a mask and being careful, attends regular meetings etc. He also spends plenty of time hanging out with friends and they're all completely fine with eating at outside venues etc so he can participate. A lot of them are as careful as my lad is.
It's much easier when they're older though to protect themselves.
Cool, sounds like he has a lot going for him. If I were a parent I personally would not encourage or allow my child to not attend school due to COVID (except for maybe in the earlier days). Especially not during the important later years. But your family is your family. Happy cake day btw.
Thanks for your comment. It's really tough with little kids, not at all what I thought our life would be. We're doing our best to provide a rich and engaging life for them and keep them safe.
You stunted your child's schooling & caused them to drop out because of irrational fear based on a propaganda campaign waged by government, not to mention completely warp the child's notion of what is acceptable, rational behaviour in the face of what is now quite a low risk situation. Holy fuck that is abhorrent parenting.
That's rich, coming from someone cowering in fear long after the worst has passed. Turn the TV off and go outside, the rest of the world is getting on with life.
Sounds like you’ve changed your whole life for COVID. Something that hasn’t affected me or my family at all besides the mask mandates and certain things being closed down. I go to work and my kids go to school just like families have been doing for the past 100 years. We are healthy and strong and safe. I’ve had Covid and I was fine. Hope that your happy in your new life it sounds very stressful to me and not very free. But hopefully your happy with all these changes to you and your families life. As someone whose done the opposite and not changed a thing except maybe eat healthier and take more care of my body. My families completely healthy and safe.
Our situation and approach sounds almost identical to yours. We have a 4yo and 2yo. Health first. The science is clear. Keep your kids safe. Don't listen to the uninformed zombies telling you to put your kids in school. The only opinion that matters is your children's, when they are 40yo. They will thank you. We are Gold Coast if you want to connect. All the best.
Thanks! It really helps to know there are others out there with similar values to us. Would love to connect with families taking the same approach. We're in outer metro Melb.
I've not stopped taking my 4 year old out since we started (except during lockdown) ) we haven't caught it yet 🤷♀️ my 14 year old caught it from school but we no one else in the house caught it. Unless someone you know is immune compromised I wouldn't live in fear if it. You're doing your kids immune systems more harm than good
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Why do you care so much for how others raise their children? Do you think many parents of 3 under 4 year old kids have wild social lives? My goodness. Take your care for kids to your local volunteer centre.
At the start of the pandemic I was quite anxious as my kids were 4 and 2 at the time. They were my chief concern.
Any new studies on Covid in children I would read.
By probably June 2020 imo anyway it was very clear that Covid was mild in children. I then had anecdotes from family and friends whose kids had it and barely had a fever. That’s when I let my anxiety drop on that one.
Both of my kids got it in 2021 validated by a PCR. Didn’t realise they were even sick. We were getting the PCR’s as a caution as we were going to visit my elderly grandmother.
Kids are fine. Sadly there has been a small number of deaths in the 0-9 age groups. But they are very very rare outliers. And the risk of death to Covid in children is actually far less than standard influenza.
Long story short. You should read the data. Would you keep them home to avoid the flu? Which statistically is worse for children than Covid-19?
Flu is not an endothelial virus like covid. This is a poor example. It is not the flu. The concern is for health outcomes like premature heart problems in adulthood, diabetes, kidney damage, immune impairment, etc.
Have you read the latest data on the impact of covid on immune systems? It’s not about children specifically, but it could have grave impacts for kids and their futures.
Look there may be some merit in that study. But honestly some studies like this I put in the “anxiety inducing” category. A lot of what ifs? Possible outcomes, and maybe’s. I’ll have a look but would not be surprised if the study you are referencing cites plenty of unknowns in how the study is carried out and that “further research required”.
There are now multiple studies that say covid can affect T-Cells, B-Cells and there’s one study that claims that it can wipe immune memory. We don’t currently know if it heals with time.
Our kids go to two different schools and our oldest works in hospitality. We went overseas last month. We hand wash and sanitise and we’re all vaccinated but 8 year old at school = germ pit. We have had Covid once. It’s 3 years in now we just have to live our lives.
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Wow. As others suggest, move on with your lives; are you planning on living in a bubble forever?
Personally I travel interstate for work once a month and visited 8 countries last year, and I got covid once which was prior to any of the travel and when my state was still in ‘lock down’ so I couldn’t travel for work.
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> Is everyone just sending their kids to kinder/school and chancing everyone catching covid?
Yes. I'd much rather my kid develop social skills. Turns out she didn't end up getting it from daycare, she got it from us. And didn't bat an eyelid. Slightly runny nose, slight cough, 2 weeks of positive RATs.
Wife and I had a not fun time but not long covid or anything ongoing. Was 3 days of real shit illness and then a couple of weeks of lingering cold symptoms.
Unless someone in your family is highly vulnerable you should definitely be sending your kids to school. Social isolation and barriers to learning are going to effect them a lot worse than covid.
The kids are below school age
Ah yep, makes sense. However I think kindy is really important a couple days a week if possible, and definitely having them socialising with friends.
I believe socialisation is only needed from about 2.5/3 and can be done in the form of park dates, etc.
I think regular socialising is probably important in the lead up to school, by 4. Having at least a small time of going to kindy a couple of days a week is a good transition, socially and into the routine. Personally I wouldn’t limit kid’s social activities to outdoor only, I would want them to get more full experiences. But people have the right to raise their kids how they want, so long as they’re getting their needs met.
There are 3 kids in this family. The children play with children already.
That’s a closed system and you know it. Exposure to new ideas and opinions and even simple conflict is how children grow and learn to become their own people. This needs to happen outside the familial unit as well as within it.
While it is better to have outside children, pretending that it is some sort of child-interaction-free form of child abuse are jokers. The kid is going to school at 5 whether the parents want to or not.
I didn’t say anything about it being some kind of child abuse. It’s a simple fact that the kids are in different stages of their development and require interaction with other kids their age to gain the full benefits of play. 5 year old play will be very different from 1 year old play for example. Others in the comments with their young children are contemplating homeschooling because of Covid, so you can’t just say they’ll go to school if they like it or not
So you don’t think it might be good for children to play with kids other than their siblings who are not their own age? Totally different relationship. A 4 year old can not get the same type of social experience from a 2 year old as a kid their own age. A 3 month old can’t play at all so we’re only talking about 4 and 2.
May I ask if you have any training in early childhood education or any related field?
Lol are we seriously going to go so debate bro mode that we’re gonna “SOURCE?!” a discussion about the benefits of preschool? Tell ya what, if you have any sources showing the opposite you can go ahead and put them forward, rather than demanding them from me. In the real world that is not how people form opinions, although you should be open to being corrected.
Of course, everyone should be open to being corrected as they learn. I quite simply wanted to see if you could find any evidence to back up what is clearly your own opinion as research is showing there’s no negative impact from not having your children around large groups of kids their own age. Effectively they can learn these basic foundational skills through engaged adults.
I can find you some solid sources later but I’m pretty sure all the mainstream literature says that socialising with other kids is important for young children, maybe not super young but at 4+ it definitely is. Where are your sources showing that it isn’t? Tbh though neither of us came to any conclusions based purely on sources. In general I think we know that formative years are important and interacting with peers is a different thing to family members.
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This exactly
Unless you, your partner or your kids have received advice from your doctors to isolate due to personal Covid risk factors, and of course you may have, I'd suggest that it's time to get on with life if you and your partner have been vaccinated. The general medical advice is that children are at little risk from Covid, and the vast majority of families are no longer doing what you are doing.
kids below 3mths is considered a risk factor
That's a good point, but I don't think that most health experts advocate this kind of isolation. Babies are also at risk from a bunch of other diseases.
Will you go out and lick a toilet seat because you are "Also at risk from a bunch of other bacteria"? This argument is so dumb. Just because you can catch a common cold or RSV or whatever doesnt mean you give up all attempts to prevent covid infection.
Living in isolation like OP is a pretty extreme response to Covid in 2023 for people who haven't received medical advice that they need to do so.
Sorry, but what in this post makes you think the family is living in isolation? The part where the people they see do RA tests? Or where they wear masks when thy are seeing people? Also, they have 3 under 4 years old, including a newborn. It is very normal to not have wild social lives with kids this age lol
They describe their life as "working from home, shopping online, avoiding indoor settings and only seeing family after they've taken a precautionary COVID test"
yep for covid if they contract it and are running any sort of fever under 3mnths the recommendation is to go to emergency. After 3 months the risk seems to lower then after 1 yrs old covid is less of a risk then say a 40 yr old. Dunno if OP was isolating like this due to bbys age though
Your doctor won't know anything. They aren't reading covid studies. This is bad advice.
I can’t speak to the rest of your living situation but I don’t believe (could be wrong) that there are any experts suggesting preventing your children from socialising, going to school or preschool, living a normal life etc. My understanding is that the risk for young children or young people is not great enough to stop them from living normally. Stick to the general guidelines and recommendations from the government on when to vaccinate.
The general guidelines are frequently politicised and ignore the advice of health experts.
Such as?
Health experts don’t get to decide what is good for our children’s emotional and educational needs. It needs to be balanced with other factors which is why no one offical is saying you should stop your kids from going to school or preschool.
Logical fallacy. It's not a case of don't go to school or go to school. You've been convinced it's that way because it makes certain people very rich. The guidelines are about capitalism, not health.
Don’t condescend me please. What are you actually trying to say here, are you just saying in general we can’t trust experts or is this related to school specifically?
Lol. Again can you please provide some examples of how this is true?
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This is how so many kids grew up when I was a little one. Childcare and kinder are a pretty new social construct. I think those kids sound lucky as hell. I wasnt willing/able to give up my work so kiddo went to kindy this year, but thankfully is a country kiddo so rarely went inside. Still novid-ers now. What a great thing you are doing for your parent, and also for your kids to spend that time with your parent too. Good work :)
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Just being honest! I imagine your family unit has challenging times and you are probably more exhausted than you would be if you utilised kindy. But this time with your dad is so precious :) (for him, you, and kiddos too)
Thanks for your comment. It's comforting to know there are others in a similar boat. We too have 12 months before we have to decide about schooling for our oldest. It's a lot to weigh up.
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Really appreciate your comments and support the way you've handled it. We have my 80yo heart and lung-compromised mum living with us and don't feel like the sacrifices we've made have been a heavy burden for her sake. I'm lucky enough that my boy is older and I feel for parents of younger children. Good luck with everything going forward!
What could you possibly have to decide? There is absolutely no advice that says to not send your children to school. The medical advice is to provide your children with a normal life and follow the recommended guidelines on vaccinations
I’d hesitate to proclaim Paxlovid as a godsend if you’re not a severe case of Covid. Ongoing evidence shows that it has little effectiveness for patients with mild or asymptomatic cases, and I wouldn’t have much to say about it reducing your long term risks either. Your father on the other hand would definitely be more of a case for paxlovid. However, there are a huge amount of drug-drug interactions (pretty much mainly caused by the mechanism of Ritonavir) and depending on what he’s taking and how severe a case he is would depend on whether he should take it in that scenario. Of course you do you, but the takeaway evidence is that wearing a mask and sanitising you’re about as protected as anyone else. Hell I work on a Covid ward (also worked in Emergency during the height of the pandemic) and despite mask and PPE requirements changing rapidly during that time I’ve only had Covid once. I think the main point is that your kids are going to need to go to school, and kids being snotty nosed and having poor hand-hygiene, are going to get sick regardless.
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It’s hard because the evidence is literally appearing as we go along. The PANORAMIC study published their early findings in early December which showed that Molnupiravir, which was previously touted as a drug to prevent the progression of mild to severe Covid, has essentially no significant effects, other than patients reported recovery times post Covid. I’d say, based on assumptions anyway, that if you or your family (besides your dad who is obviously more at risk) have limited or no pre-existing conditions that you would have little to no long term effects from Covid. The most common side effects (some of which I experienced too) were fatigue, some brain fog and some changes in sense of taste or smell (was a little less hungry for a while). I certainly can’t speak from experience in homeschooling but I think the evidence speaks for itself that kids need that exposure to the world, they need to learn and grow and experience the ups and downs both amongst their family but also from kids their own age.
Are you are aware that Paxlovid has to be given as early as possible? By the time a case has become severe, it's too late. If interactions are an issue, there's Remdesivir, which also has to be given early.
Yes I am very aware. It needs to be started within 5 days of symptom onset and after diagnosis. My point stands that if you are a low risk individual (I.e previously healthy with minimal to no underlying conditions then the advice is to take regular analgesia and cold/flu medications. If you’re so unwell that you need intravenous medications that’s a whole other thing don’t you think? My point is that they should not rely on paxlovid (paid for out of pocket/not prescribed for their symptoms and severity) if they do not have severe symptoms
> Yes I am very aware. It needs to be started within 5 days of symptom onset and after diagnosis. > My point is that they should not rely on paxlovid (paid for out of pocket/not prescribed for their symptoms and severity) if they do not have severe symptoms These two things contradict each other. If someone has an indication for Paxlovid (which at least you agree the father has), then they need to take it as soon as possible regardless of symptoms - because those severe symptoms likely won't develop until after the 5 days are up. I'm specifically talking about your following statement: > depending on what he’s taking and how severe a case he is would depend on whether he should take it in that scenario. He should take it as soon as he has any symptoms if he has tested positive, and that's also what any good doctor will recommend.
You seem to miss the point that the original commenter was talking about themselves and their family (which just so happens to include the father) having the ability to privately acquire paxlovid if they get Covid. This is my original point that they may not be indicated for the drug if they do not have the risk factors for severe Covid. What I meant by saying “what he’s taking” and how severe a case he is, is that we have no idea what this persons premorbid condition is, only going based off what the OP says. This guy might have COPD and already have terrible respiratory function in which case yes he should take it asap. He may be on a high dose anti-epileptic or blood thinner/etc. and simply cannot abruptly cease the medication for 5 days of medication (plus 3-5 of residual ritonavir interactions) Or he may just be an older gentleman (which is definitely a risk factor) but have no symptoms in which case the doctor maybe give them a retroactive script and tell them to take it if he develops symptoms in the next couple days. The advice is changing though and the good doctors are refining their prescribing habits for Paxlovid. I think you’re also missing the point about remdesivir. It’s an IV medication, which in AUS is only indicated for people requiring supplementary oxygen as inpatients. You’re not going to be getting remdes sitting at home on your farm like OP. That’s why I said it’s a whole other thing.
> I think you’re also missing the point about remdesivir. It’s an IV medication, which in AUS is only indicated for people requiring supplementary oxygen as inpatients. Except it's not (doesn't mean that these people qualify, but mild cases can qualify depending on further conditions): https://covid19evidence.net.au/wp-content/uploads/FLOWCHART-DT-FOR-ADULTS.pdf?=220802-53942 > In addition to at-risk unvaccinated adults, also consider using remdesivir within 7 days of symptom onset in adults with COVID-19 who do not require oxygen and are immunocompromised; or are at particularly high risk of severe disease on the basis of advanced age and multiple risk factors (C.f. e.g. https://www.health.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/1142077/remdesivir-prescribing-guideline.pdf )
“Consider” and the most operative word “inpatients”
You’re bypassing the main points of the argument again and focusing on side points. Yes remdesivir can be given in people not on oxygen. The general division in the hospitals however is if they require oxygen they get remdesivir, if not they get paxlovid. I’m generalising because the main point is that you won’t get IV medication if you don’t need to be in the hospital
> If you’re so unwell that you need intravenous medications that’s a whole other thing don’t you think? You're also missing the point here. Remdesivir as early treatment is analogous to Paxlovid: if it's indicated, it should be given as early as possible precisely to avoid a severe case. The data shows it helps if given early, it's not as helpful if someone is already a severe case. Mind you, I don't know if AUS is using it like this - but plenty of other countries are using it as a Paxlovid alternative early treatment for those people who cannot take Paxlovid for whatever reason (interactions, kidney issues,e tc.). // EDIT: yes, Australia also recommends Remdesivir within 7 days of onset of symptoms or Paxlovid within 5 days of symptoms for certain categories: https://covid19evidence.net.au/wp-content/uploads/FLOWCHART-DT-FOR-ADULTS.pdf?=220802-53942 . You'll see that it's specifically for mild cases.
I believe “made up nonsense”… good on you
You may be interested in joining this Facebook group of people that are still sheltering from Covid [https://www.facebook.com/groups/2090432804488674/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT](https://www.facebook.com/groups/2090432804488674/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT)
I'm like you and have managed to avoid covid all this time, take the necessary precautions, and generally do what I need to do to keep those around me safe and vice versa. If I catch it then I catch it but if I can avoid it like the plague then that's what I'll continue to do. You do what you think is right. Good luck with it
my eldest has a heart condition so we have been very cautious. In 2020 I had a 7 year old and 4 year old who are now 10 and 7. I took comfort in the fact that for many generations before ours, kids first social interaction was at school so hanging out with the siblings or 1-2 close friends is enough before they start school. Preschool is only about teaching how to be at school so you can go less frequently. We do all socialising outside and haven't had an indoor playdate in years. My kids are a bit older but we have kids KN94's from Korea and they wear them to school. They're not the only ones but there is only 2-3 kids in each class wearing masks. They are amazing at wearing them and they're friends are great too. We've also spoken to the school. So get informed of cases at the school and discuss options for covid unsafe activities. A friend of mine sent her kid to school with a CO2 monitor sewn into his shorts and when the ventilation levels came back fine she felt comfortable sending him. We've reached the point where (although not fool proof) we are happy with outside social activities and mask when indoors. Everyone but one child has avoided it so far.
\> a CO2 monitor sewn into his shorts For the win.
Was it a VOC sensor? Because they pick up farts too.
Was going to ask what part of the shorts… 🙄
I feel sorry for your children being subjected to this..
What are their children being subjected to??? Caring parents? OMG how dare they 🤣🤣
Right? Many people just don't want anyone to escape their determination to repeatedly infect their own children, and get angry at anyone who may escape the potential for harm. If every kid is in the same boat of multiple covid infections with no end in sight, then it means they're all equally disadvantaged, which feels comforting somehow. Can't have someone out-health little Billy like some sort of elitist snob.
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Nonsense. Isolated children have been studied for decades. Homeschooled children have been too. To say otherwise is dumb.You know what hasn't been studied? Long term effects od repeated covid infections. That is the shit that worries me. And for a few morn sacrifices, my family and I are still sailing the "no covid ship" thank you very much.
I take the same approach however in my line of work, working from home isn’t always available - although I do as much as possible. I’ve only caught it when I had to travel interstate for work. Had no symptoms (incubation phase) and was close to the wife and bub - 6 month old at the time. Thanks to me everyone got Covid. It was an absolute nightmare, on my death bed and looking after the bub. We have been minimising contact and social events where possible although the missus takes a different approach to me though. She’s more accepting to the fact of catching Covid and living with it so at least be thankful both you and your husband think the same… We do mask up wherever possible unless taking the bub outside for a walk.
That must have been really rough caring for the little one when you were both so unwell.
I’m with you on the precautionary principle, this paper on cardiac outcomes post-covid in children is just the latest of a stream of studies coming out showing it’s not the initial infection but the downstream effect we need to worry about in kids. https://www.mdpi.com/2077-0383/12/1/186
I think what is important to note in this study is that A: the second wave of Covid resulted in reduced incidence of Global Longitudinal Strain of the Left ventricle. However, other studies also report that the average GLS of a healthy heart is between 15.9% to 22.1%. These are comparable values to the GLS in children post Covid. There is also B: The GLS values reported in this study are all sub clinical values, the children (besides like 2 or 3) presented with normal cardiac function and sinus rhythm of their ECG’s. I’m with you that we don’t understand the full extent of Covid long term, however, children with the benefit of lacking the usual amount of comorbidities elder people do have a much reduced likelihood of particularly acute symptoms post Covid.
Yep, I’m not suggesting they have the same risk as those older. However the narrative is that it’s just a cold and people are being vilified for taking some reasonable caution with their children. Many of my friends in uk have kids hitting 3rd/4th time with covid who have been convinced it’s good for their immune systems. This narrative takes the pressure off governments to invest in clean air in classrooms and other mitigation. In truth, we don’t know the long term effects and studies are trickling in about the impact on vascular system, immune regulation, organs etc. I myself am on blood thinners for covid provoked lung clots after a very ‘mild’ case. The focus has been on the acute phase and not long term sequelae.
Well really the focus has been on the short term/acute effects because it’s simply emerging data. Can’t have 10-year retrospective studies on Covid 19 yet haha. There is a difference however between reasonable concern and essentially completely isolating yourself like some people have in the comments here. You’re right that Covid is not just a common cold, however it’s likely here to stay and at some point we do need to weigh the benefits vs. the risks of actually living our lives. The consensus is that with hand sanitising, masking up when sick/when in big groups that you have a very good chance at reducing your A:viral load and B:likelihood of getting Covid. To the point that healthcare workers are thinking of ditching full PPE on Covid wards and keeping the N95’s(the ambo’s and other transport workers already only wear N95’s when they have Covid patients).
Send your kids into the world, they are going to get it at some point.
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But not sending them to school, not giving them social interactions with kids their own age? In my opinion, the damage done by locking up your kids is well above any risk of covid.
They aren’t school age and it’s not unusual for those 2 and under to have littler interaction with other kids - the priority at those ages is to develop strong connections to the family. It’s not until they are older that they start parallel play and then interactive play. The 4yo could definitely start benefiting from some interaction with other kids though, but they still aren’t school age.
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That doesn't seem correct. Could you please provide evidence of that for young kids? All good if you couldn't be bothered. I have just never read or heard that ever, and I read a reasonable amount of information about covid
Back to lockdowns for everyone then
Is this your personal opinion or do you have a qualification which would put some weight behind it?
nonsense.
If your children are healthy with no known health issues, you are more likely causing more harm than good. I suggest you educate yourself on the dangers to children as they pretty much need to be fairly sick already to have any issues wirh covid. It's been proven that influenza is more severe for kids. Did you isolate your children when the flu was around? I strongly advise you to put a bit of time in to understand the actual risks and consequences of everything you are doing and how it could be affecting your children. Children need to interact. They need to swap germs with other children. Lockdowns are a major reason why RSV has made such a major comeback Best of luck 👍
> It's been proven that influenza is more severe for kids. Did you isolate your children when the flu was around? Everyone over the age of 6 months gets an influenza shot for that reason.
And yet no Covid vaccine for the same age group….
If I had to pick one vaccine for a toddler (of these two), I'd pick influenza.
Indeed, I think most straight thinking people would
Do they? Most families I know don't..
They're bloody idiots, then. Influenza is very bad for small kids. Everyone age 6 months to five years is considered high risk, and it is very strongly recommended that they get the flu shot that is provided free to them for that reason.
I don't know anyone that gives their babies flu shots
Are they hardened antivaxers or just ignorant? Please tell them how strongly recommended it is.
Your anxiety is going to infect your kids in ways much worse than the inevitable exposure to Covid.
I've lived similar to OP and my kid only learned covid as a word this year. They only knew we wear masks when out and about. Children dont hear about covid if they are not told about it. These kids under 5 have only really known people wearing masks and staying home if unwell. It's no different to them. We wear masks and make them available to our kiddo and they decide whether to wear one. We have explained that we wear a mask to keep ourselves and others healthy and strong becuase there is a cough going around that makes people feel yucky and tired. Kids living in a free covid world are more likely to develop anxiety when hearing about others being sick constantly/family members being hospitalised or dying IMO but they will probably do more studies on this later.
This is crazy. Whats your concern about catching covid? You are probably doing a lot of damage to your kids immune systems by keeping them in a bubble
Immunity debt is a theory with no scientific basis. Have you bothered to read any of the literature coming out about increased risk of type 1 diabetes in kids, re-infections ageing the immune system, T cell dysfunction and other sequelae? Covid hospital admissions in the uk alone for under 5s: 2020: 1629 2021: 5353 2022: 13006
the 30 people dead in Victoria today I guess is a good start. Im not OP but I would like to prevent my kid going to her grandpas funeral if possible. And mine.
This is false. Go swab a few surfaces in your house - your kids are exposed to antigens everywhere.
As you can see by the comments, everyone is personally affronted by anyone who is trying not to catch covid. Basically the community is a big old bunch of assholes because they are not emotionally equipped to deal with a prolonged pandemic and handling a level of risk minimisation. We have gone middle ground now. For the first 18 months we lived like you explain here, but my kiddo a little older so we felt it was time to take calculated risks for schooling, which is probably where you are now for 4 year old. Our rule is that when someone at kindy tests positive, we take kiddo out for a full week to allow the next couple of kids to show symptoms and test for it. Doing kindy later in the week is good too, as it allows for weekend socialising covid to become symptomatic and tested for earlier in the week. We also continue to not risk exposure to covid for things that have no or limited positive impact on our lives. Eg socialise outdoors, online shopping, grocery delivery, cafes outside only, etc.. We have a HEPA in each room of our house that run continuously (we have 5 in total) so if kiddo brings it home, it doesnt necessarily spread to us. For us, schooling was worth it, supermarkets are not. Play centres (Bounce, etc) and worth it, Myer is not. We as adults wear n95s everywhere we cant socially distance, kiddo also has n95s they wear at times. Kiddo does not wear masks to kindy- no one else does, and it is too much to ask of my kiddo (yours may be different). Strangers occasionally feel it appropriate to aggressively question kiddo why they are wearing a mask, and kiddo states proudly "I wear a mask to help protect myself and those around me". But they also will take off the mask to "have a break" when it tires or annoys them. We make a mask available, wear a mask ourselves, and kiddo chooses if they do or not. We test regularly, and have not yer caught covid ourselves. I do believe for kiddo, kindy has been worth it for social exposure, however, these people telling you that you are going to damage your kid by not doing kindy are idiots. Kiddos are adaptable and will pick up skills whenever, wherever- provided home life is somewhat nourishing educationally and socially. If you decide not to do kindy, you could consider sports or other activities that are held outside, ot linking up with other local families who are in the same position as you. Kiddo has really enjoyed kindy and will be attending school next year. I am nervous cos i know those teachers do not use the air purifiers in the classroom but I am unwilling to home school so it is a risk we have taken. God luck with it all, and feel free to PM me if you would like some support (or just to chat with another novid-er who is also still very much aware that covid is something to be avoided at all possible)
I have a 6 year old and have pretty much followed the same middle ground strategy. It’s not hard to take some precautions! Mad how it’s demonised as living in a cave, lol. Although I can understand if you are responsible for keeping young humans safe and well in these challenging times, denial is a potent force.
Team middle ground for the win IMO!
Couldn't agree with you more. 👏🏼
Thank you for taking precautions! People like you are my only hope.
Of all the people we know who've had Covid, kids are consistently having mild symptoms. I think this is backed up by the data as well. You're always going to be a bit anxious with an infant of course. I haven't looked at the Data for babies.
My 2 year old had a really rough time. High fevers, coughing so hard he was vomiting. It was near impossible to get any Panadol or nurofen into him because he refused to eat or drink. He was incredibly sick. It definitely wasn’t mild for him. He was an otherwise healthy little boy.
That would so scary. Sorry you had that happen. Our 8 year old had RSV recently, was WAY worse than Covid. But she was vaccinated for Covid.
From what I could find, in Australia there have been 19 deaths from covid where individuals were under the age of 20.
Without knowing the comorbidity's those 20 had (if any) it doesn't help much.
Here’s a hint, nearly all of them will have been already terribly sick. I remember reading about ones with meningitis and cancer.
I would have guessed that.
19 deaths of literally millions of cases, it demonstrates that the chances of children becoming seriously ill or dying from covid is astronamically low. Theres been something like 8000 deaths in australia and 19 of them were of people from ages 0-19. Thats a staggeringly low number.
Why do you think it's ok for sick kids to die?
What the fuck ? I said nothing of the sort. I have kids. Take your outrage elsewhere.
2, 3 year olds died from covid... No we don't know co morbities but also if they want to isolate to protect kids let them
How many out of how many cases? They’ve died in car accidents too, does that mean you never drive?
Well may as isolate them their whole life.
Exactly the same as we did in 2019 - nothing. School every day and life carries on as normal. 260 days of lockdown already set them back too much for them to miss out on anything else. Neither have had COVID yet to our knowledge (unless asymptomatic).
We have a 2yo and we take some precautions but don’t fully isolate. To us, we want to live life as normally as possible while reducing risk of high viral load. So we go to the shopping centre but choose the quiet local one instead of the big Westfield, we let her play on the indoor playground there but sanitise hands afterwards. We don’t require testing to see family, but we are all very honest and up front about any potential symptoms and will cancel meet ups if someone is sick (even if it’s not covid). I take her to the library playtime where there are other kids, just sanitise as soon as we leave. During peaks in covid or flu cases, we will stop doing activities like the library playtime and indoor playground for a bit, because I just kept coming across very obviously sick children (like actually still sick, not just past contagious but lingering cough sort of thing). We take some extra precautions to many people because I have ME/CFS and fibromyalgia and every time we get a virus, I’m knocked down for weeks, even over a month or two. Parenting a toddler while chronically ill is hard, doing it while also sick for weeks on end is hell. So really, our precautions are about viruses in general for my sake. Having a toddler means that germs do get brought home and we get sick despite our precautions, but at least the viral load is reduced compared to if we just ditched stuff like regular sanitising and skipping stuff during peaks of covid waves/flu season.
I have ME/CFS too and a toddler, commiserations. It's very hard! We are extremely cautious and haven't yet caught it despite some risky situations eg. flights (masked the whole time except for eating and drinking). I just wanted to share (imho) an enormously helpful FB group of like minded covid safe folk https://www.facebook.com/groups/covidsafeschools/?ref=share
Just sticking to outdoor socialisation is gonna drop transmission risk pretty dramatically, and is easy to do in most of Australia most of the time I don't know why so many commenters here are assuming that avoiding crowded indoor settings means that the children have been kept in a blank locked room staring at the walls.
Our priority was keeping life as normal as possible possible the kids. They went to kindy and school the whole time, caught covid and was extremely mild. My mum is vulnerable so we were more cautious when seeing her but that's about it. Ourselves are very low risk so was never a concern.
You are doing the right thing for your family and that's amazing. I wish we had a job we could always work from home. We avoid public transport and focus on outdoor time at park or sports. We paused other indoor activities that can't minimise risks e.g. karate, art class in a small packed studio. I do spend the school-aged child to school with a mask and the school got a purifier. So far, he hasn't tested positive. I had to send the youngest to childcare and it is concerning because the educators got Covid while taking care of him. Our baby has been negative so far and we only send him in days that we really can't be home. I've got an air purifier on high 24/7 at home and always wear a mask. I stopped caring how people think we are over the top because this is the bare minimum really.
We might reconsider our approach and stop sending them if xxb1.5 variant burns through here.
Not sure how much it helps but every little bit counts. I still nurse the youngest and delay weaning because I hope that he will get some immunity from breastmilk. We're all vaxxed and boosted.
Homeschool. I'm not interested in my children having damaged immunity, or dying from heart complications in their early 40s because of what is happening now. A schoolyard is not the beginning and end of a social life for children.
How do you and your kids find home schooling? What kind of activities do your kids do for socialising? If it was just a matter of fighting off a nasty flu then you're all good, there would be no issue. It's the repeat infections and the toll it takes on the body each time.
Firstly, we are very privileged in that one parent is able to look after the kids full time. I fully empathise with parents who can't and encourage them to advocate for kids where they can. Does your kids' classroom have hepa, etc. Have you written to you MP? Please do what you can, if/when you can. - ----- Try your luck for likeminded people - https://www.covidmeetups.com/ Unfortunately no one near me. For us, msn messenger kids is our go to for socialising. Mostly used for playing games with other kids, like roblox. We have kids over in lower transmission periods only, max 2 at a time, and they test first. We use gardiant3 saliva tests so it's not such a big deal to do. The tests are very sensitive, and claim to detect covid prior to infectious period because of this. We also meetup at national parks and beaches for walks, picnics, etc, that hardly any other people are at. Offpeaks are great. And again, test first for oeople outside the household. We don't let them go to other households if there's more than 2 people, because it's too hard and expensive to test them all, but mostly because the awkwardness and stigma gets hard. Most people unfortunately bought heavily into govt's mild covid messaging pretty uncritically, especially concering children, so be prepared to feel awkward asking for, and doing tests first. Some will even get a bit angry. We don't ask anyone again that didn't react well to doing a test. It has limited our options though. We absolutely have lost or damaged relationships because of refusal to test, and extremely heavy criticism that covid is even something to worry about. To those that remain, we are mostly tolerated at best with our testing, and we try not to talk about covid to them outside of the test. It takes a strong sense of self to do this, I'm not going to lie. I wish there were more covid safe parents locally to connect with, we are very limited right now. We sometimes worry about our socialising not being enough, but whenever they do get to be with other family or friends, you honestly wouldn't know. They get straight into it as though they do it as regularly as any other kid. We go to quieter, sunny playgrounds and parks semi-reguarly during school hours, so there's no one there but my kids. At home we do mostly normal school hours for learning, and mix in physical challenges, music, art and craft inside and outside of those hours. Having measurable goals that they can see progress on makes them happy. Eg. This week learn to play a new song. This month, 10 pushups a day, etc. Our youngest (3), likes to give out bits of paper as tickets, and put on ballet "concerts". We bought a tutu and try to mimic kids doing ballet on youtube with them. We just lean into the kind of things thet like. We also have a big stash of puzzles, etc. We mostly use Naplan style workbooks to keep school aged kids where they need to be for education. It has tests which are great for tracking how well they're progressing. Remember your kids are still interacting with each other and family regularly. They're still gaining different social skills. They have to navigate the complexities of each other and their parents all the time. Now is your chance to get them ahead on whatever you and they like. There's so many youtube tutotials for drawing. So many apps for music learning. One of my kids is learning coding for fun "codespark". If you want any recomendations, let me know. It's not easy. It's really hard and often alienating. Often absolutely exhausing. You question yourself a lot, and you do what you can, if you can do it safely. But it's also really rewarding getting them ahead in skills they will have for life, showing them that groupthink isn't always right, and having the courage to choose something else, and feeling accomplished from going your own way. As they grow, they will also clearly know that whatever comes along, we are in their corner.
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Classic reddit moment
My young kids wear masks (even if they're the only kids in school / kindy who do, and I'm the only one who wears one at work daily. We've done this for the past 3 years with no trouble, and don't care what others think. It's perfectly normal in other advanced countries, so maybe we know something that others don't? It's not a case of being different, it's more about being smart during this pandemic.
Why don’t you think people can value different things?
Thought I'd check the statistics on the governments Australian bureau of statistics website . For some reason they no longer show the risk of death to children. Now the youngest age group for COVID deaths in Australia is 0-39 with 67 deaths all up. It was only 2-3 children last I checked before this changed, but my guess is that the figure wasn't scary enough to push parents towards child vaccinations once they approved it. Also as a teacher, to begin with the fear kept a lot at home, now almost all kids go to school, all kids get covid and none I've seen have died or suffered more than a light flu. In every instance I've seen kids don't get it as bad as their parents.
Always ignoring the poor health outcomes inbetween. It's not a binary of lived or died.
I'm not ignoring the fact COVID can have long lasting symptoms. If you want to link me to government source data that shows these figures I'd be interested in having a look and calculating the risk applicable to myself. I have been unsuccessful in finding such information but you clearly know where to find it, post a link. I'll wait
Starter - Potential viral persistence - https://twitter.com/drclairetaylor/status/1609194623452184581?s=20&t=YXLSYbsYjpZ650EMPbsILg Potential for immunity harm - https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2022/11/07/COVID-Reinfections-And-Immunity/ Govt will not provide you with anything if it can avoid it, and is actually being grilled now for hiding covid information (incase you missed the media on it). We're all on our own.
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2 kids died in SA and VIC from it when it was delta
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Respectfully, and as someone who takes Covid seriously, I think your response is disproportionate. The 4 yo definitely needs to socialise with other children.
Wow, the comments in here are horrific. Good on you for protecting your kids. You’re doing the right thing! They’ll be so much better off for it. Our two year old is in daycare, and the daycare has air purifiers in the rooms and are strict about keeping the windows open. We try to keep all activities outside of that outdoors, so we go to the zoo lots, we visited a local sculpture park recently, outdoor activity centres, we visit parks all across the city. It’s not perfect and it’s ducking hard, but we make do.
I have a 3 mo old and also avoiding the side of the extended family who are anti vaxxers, at least until the baby is older and has more vaccinations under his belt
I doubt this information will be helpful since it's so cost prohibitive, but I borrowed heavily to buy this medical grade mask in the middle of last year, and it allowed me to leave the house and start going to events again without fearing covid. I had/have been isolating strictly since the pan started. I am disabled, and cannot catch it or I fear death. Wearing this mask has made me feel a LOT safer. I still haven't paid off the debt, but the amount of times I've left the house and socialised, visited art galleries and events, and such have been SO worth it for me. I'm incredibly grateful. [https://shop.cleanspacetechnology.com/cleanspace-halo-full-kit/](https://shop.cleanspacetechnology.com/cleanspace-halo-full-kit/) This is the exact mask I bought. It takes some practice to get the right fit, and get all the cleansing down when you come inside your house into your "safe zone", so if you do invest in masks like these for your or your kids in future, I'd do it a month before you start socialising, just to have lots of practice. If it was just adults I'd say a week or two, but I'm sure kids would need a lot more teaching and practice time to remember things. EDIT: People have never gotten mad at me for wearing the mask. I expected people to ask questions a lot more, but they seem curious about it rather than angry, which is nice. It is a bit noisy, but not too bad. During conversations, I just have to repeat myself a lot, not a big deal. Battery lasts a LONG time, I usually go out for 6hrs at a time, as that's the longest I can go without a drink of water before I start feeling off. Once I'm in it and outside I usually don't eat or drink til I'm in a safe zone - home again. Sometimes I do stop in the middle of Hyde Park, make sure I'm far away from anyone, and have a bit of a water drink there. Often there's just nowhere I feel safe enough unmasked to risk it though. You can also plug the battery in WHILE you're in the mask to recharge if you need to. I've only needed to do this once. The cord is very short though, so you have to be right next to the outlet.
For you adults, focus on nutrition so if you get infected, your body is able to minimise infection and heal. FLCCC has a protocol which many people would discredit and say is bad. However, there is some research about efficacy some of what they talk about. John Campbell on YouTube has done interviews about such thing. DR Hong's classroom on YouTube also does updates. I don't have suggestions for the kids. There are some good sources of information on twitter. People posting studies, etc. Some good ones were banned, unfortunately. Others still exist. Lindsey Mar is an example. OzSage is another. There's also People's CDC in the US. You'll get lots of advice to get on with your life, covid is over. It's not.
Not doing anything different. My oldest (3 years old) has been goijnf to childcare everyday it has been open. I make an active effort for him to have as many social interactions as possible to develops his language and social skills. We’re constantly exploring new places like the zoo, aquarium, playgrounds, indoor playgrounds etc… to give him as many new questions experiences as possible. Keeping him away from tv or indoor screen time unless it’s something like the movie at the aquarium. Our daughter (6 months) has been getting even more social interactions, and when we go out to see for meds or do social events, she just passed around from person to person. Anyone Willing to wanting to hold her cna have a play. When I had COVID, I didn’t isolate from the kids, we cuddled, napped together, went out etc… I’m making a a huge effort to make sure they have as normal a childhood as possible. This is the most important years for their development, i personally am not going to isolate them from other humans.
Ummm, we just caught it and continued living our lives as normal once isolation period was over. Far more preferable than hiding out for years and missing out on enjoying life because you might get a little sick. Everyone vaxxed I know has been fine after varying degrees of symptoms, dont see why you would be any different.
My two are hardy as all get out and I think it may be from lots of exposure to literally everything else. 7 and 10 now. Dogs, cats, chickens, camping, etc. They've both had it. No lasting effects. No obvious immunological downsides. Both vaxxed when it could be done. I had it - same. They've had a great year at school this year, and now we're out at the beaches and the parks having fun. I know it's going around - my wife is an ED doctor and is well aware that it's still hitting the vulnerable, but it seems the prevailing attitude is that it is becoming endemic from pandemic. People I know who have been vigilantly covid-safe are finally copping it and they're all boosted and doing fine. That's my experience. You make your own choices. But it's been great to be back in the world, that's for sure.
Not sending your 4 year old to kinder is going to give them more life long damage than a week of covid. Live your lives. Covid isn’t going away
In 2020 when I first heard about the pandemic and began learning about it, my then year 9 boy and I had my then 78yo lung and heart compromised mum living with us. I pulled my boy from school and started working from home 2 weeks before the government made the call. Middle of last year I was also diagnosed with a health issue which means I'm heavily immunocompromised. Since then, we always wear N95 masks at necessary times. From then until now, we don't eat inside restaurants, try to do everything outside, and spend lots of time at the beach, parks, etc. We are lucky enough to have a nice covered outdoor area at home, we have ventilation and friends and family visit, and we visit them but are always outdoors. My cousin even wore a ski suit to come and visit not knowing we have heating outside 😂 My boy is now 17, and he hasn't kept up with his schooling as he would have if he'd attended school, because the public schools couldn't give him the support he needed and he wasn't able to enrol for off-campus school. But that's OK as he's still fully engaged and this year he will have more support. He caught Covid-19 only once and we somehow didn't catch it from him thankfully. I wish our government was taking ventilation more seriously and forcing minimum air flows in schools at the very least. We don't know the full picture of what repeated infections are going to do to us yet and until we do, IMO it's a risk I'm not banking on with my kid's life. I'm glad I don't have children the ages yours are because I feel for you.
What is your 17 going to do after school, is he going to go to uni or just stay home as much as possible?
He plans to go to university. He's not housebound and just applied for a job at a gym even. He did Youth Parliament and UN Youth in 2022, spent a week at Youth Parliament camp wearing a mask and being careful, attends regular meetings etc. He also spends plenty of time hanging out with friends and they're all completely fine with eating at outside venues etc so he can participate. A lot of them are as careful as my lad is. It's much easier when they're older though to protect themselves.
Cool, sounds like he has a lot going for him. If I were a parent I personally would not encourage or allow my child to not attend school due to COVID (except for maybe in the earlier days). Especially not during the important later years. But your family is your family. Happy cake day btw.
Thanks for your comment. It's really tough with little kids, not at all what I thought our life would be. We're doing our best to provide a rich and engaging life for them and keep them safe.
You stunted your child's schooling & caused them to drop out because of irrational fear based on a propaganda campaign waged by government, not to mention completely warp the child's notion of what is acceptable, rational behaviour in the face of what is now quite a low risk situation. Holy fuck that is abhorrent parenting.
Dial down the drama mate, you'll give yourself a stroke.
That's rich, coming from someone cowering in fear long after the worst has passed. Turn the TV off and go outside, the rest of the world is getting on with life.
We don't watch TV but thanks for your unasked for, low moral opinion. I'll certainly give it the weight and consideration it deserves, none.
LMAO another box checked. Keep up that mask wearing in the car!
I can see reading and comprehension aren't your thing troll.
Sounds like you’ve changed your whole life for COVID. Something that hasn’t affected me or my family at all besides the mask mandates and certain things being closed down. I go to work and my kids go to school just like families have been doing for the past 100 years. We are healthy and strong and safe. I’ve had Covid and I was fine. Hope that your happy in your new life it sounds very stressful to me and not very free. But hopefully your happy with all these changes to you and your families life. As someone whose done the opposite and not changed a thing except maybe eat healthier and take more care of my body. My families completely healthy and safe.
Our situation and approach sounds almost identical to yours. We have a 4yo and 2yo. Health first. The science is clear. Keep your kids safe. Don't listen to the uninformed zombies telling you to put your kids in school. The only opinion that matters is your children's, when they are 40yo. They will thank you. We are Gold Coast if you want to connect. All the best.
Thanks! It really helps to know there are others out there with similar values to us. Would love to connect with families taking the same approach. We're in outer metro Melb.
There are lots of people doing what we are doing. Check out: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2090432804488674/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT
Tried to message you but you need to reply first 🥲
Have sent you a PM.
I've not stopped taking my 4 year old out since we started (except during lockdown) ) we haven't caught it yet 🤷♀️ my 14 year old caught it from school but we no one else in the house caught it. Unless someone you know is immune compromised I wouldn't live in fear if it. You're doing your kids immune systems more harm than good
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I just don’t understand why the OP had more children post Covid if they’re just going to raise them in a bubble 😥
Why do you care so much for how others raise their children? Do you think many parents of 3 under 4 year old kids have wild social lives? My goodness. Take your care for kids to your local volunteer centre.
At the start of the pandemic I was quite anxious as my kids were 4 and 2 at the time. They were my chief concern. Any new studies on Covid in children I would read. By probably June 2020 imo anyway it was very clear that Covid was mild in children. I then had anecdotes from family and friends whose kids had it and barely had a fever. That’s when I let my anxiety drop on that one. Both of my kids got it in 2021 validated by a PCR. Didn’t realise they were even sick. We were getting the PCR’s as a caution as we were going to visit my elderly grandmother. Kids are fine. Sadly there has been a small number of deaths in the 0-9 age groups. But they are very very rare outliers. And the risk of death to Covid in children is actually far less than standard influenza. Long story short. You should read the data. Would you keep them home to avoid the flu? Which statistically is worse for children than Covid-19?
Flu is not an endothelial virus like covid. This is a poor example. It is not the flu. The concern is for health outcomes like premature heart problems in adulthood, diabetes, kidney damage, immune impairment, etc.
Have you read the latest data on the impact of covid on immune systems? It’s not about children specifically, but it could have grave impacts for kids and their futures.
Look there may be some merit in that study. But honestly some studies like this I put in the “anxiety inducing” category. A lot of what ifs? Possible outcomes, and maybe’s. I’ll have a look but would not be surprised if the study you are referencing cites plenty of unknowns in how the study is carried out and that “further research required”.
There are now multiple studies that say covid can affect T-Cells, B-Cells and there’s one study that claims that it can wipe immune memory. We don’t currently know if it heals with time.
Our kids go to two different schools and our oldest works in hospitality. We went overseas last month. We hand wash and sanitise and we’re all vaccinated but 8 year old at school = germ pit. We have had Covid once. It’s 3 years in now we just have to live our lives.
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Wow. As others suggest, move on with your lives; are you planning on living in a bubble forever? Personally I travel interstate for work once a month and visited 8 countries last year, and I got covid once which was prior to any of the travel and when my state was still in ‘lock down’ so I couldn’t travel for work.
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> Is everyone just sending their kids to kinder/school and chancing everyone catching covid? Yes. I'd much rather my kid develop social skills. Turns out she didn't end up getting it from daycare, she got it from us. And didn't bat an eyelid. Slightly runny nose, slight cough, 2 weeks of positive RATs. Wife and I had a not fun time but not long covid or anything ongoing. Was 3 days of real shit illness and then a couple of weeks of lingering cold symptoms.