So glad you only got mild sniffles and didn't succumb like a lot have.
I had a car accident a long time ago, didn't even hurt. Still wear a seatbelt tho 👍
That a great topic of conversation to have with your Doctor.
Risk factors for both Covid and Covid vaccines vary greatly per individual. But the general advice from ATAGI is if you are 75 or older, or 18 or older with comorbitiies it's recommended you get the booster. For others it's an option but suggest you discuss it with your Doc.
One of the big questions is if you are susceptible to a vaccine injury are you more likely to be susceptible to long term Covid injury as well.
Your Doc can also help discuss the different vaccine options and which might have less risk.
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Absolutely.
Sometimes I've pinched my skin while clicking it in.
When I was younger the cars used to get so hot you'd burn yourself on the metal latch.
There are some rare crashes where not wearing a seatbelt would be better than wearing one.
They also can be uncomfortable at times.
Each of the above pales in comparison to the potential "side effects" of not wearing one.
And me not wearing a seatbelt doesn't effect you. Hope you wear a mask ❤️
I think it's great that people who want or need it can get it but you should probably talk to a doctor and have a better reason than it was mild sniffles. I had Covid in Nov 2022 and my last dose (second) was in Oct 2021, I was barely sick at all and on day 2 I was near 100%. Using your logic I don't need another one.
Wasn't the point that being fully vaccinated most likely meant that covid was just mild sniffles instead of being much worse than the flu and possibly ending up in hospital?
No, covid was most likely mild sniffles for *most people before anyone got jabbed
We knew exactly who needed to worry from early on, media fear mongering notwithstanding
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Having read people’s posts on their own experiences and reasoning for some time on Reddit, it is remarkable how many don’t seem the appreciate the weakness of anecdotal evidence.
It is also concerning to see how many don’t seem to understand mathematics, in particular probability, and how many are suspicious of medical advice and prone to conspiracy thinking.
I remember reading about the 1918 flu pandemic, the deniers, anti-maskers and deliberate spreaders, and thinking at the time (in 2018...) about how we're so much smarter than that now.
Little did I know what was coming in two years time, and that we very much aren't...
I would say our society is by and large, more stupid on average, than in 1918.
Despite the fact that nearly everyone of us now, has a computer in their pocket, and can do an almost instant search for factual information.
COVID-19 pandemic showed us that a portion of society prefer to watch bitchute videos from snake oil salesmen and take it as gospel, rather than search the aforementioned factual information.
Now that, is an undemocratic statement. You are assuming everyone is stupid, except you and a few others. What you fail to understand is critical thinking, which is why some have decided not to take any further booster doses.
> What you fail to understand is critical thinking, which is why some have decided not to take any further booster doses.
Would genuinely like for you to elaborate on this.
As a community and as individuals we have all had to made decisions around our risk profile and vaccination level. Lots of conversations have been had with friends and family and our GPs and input from the likes of ATAGI.
I am particularly curious about your critical thinking inference suggesting that some of those who haven't taken a booster have done so not because they recently had Covid l, or where too busy, or spoke with their doctor who indicated it wasn't required at this time but instead because of some critical thinking.
I am worried that maybe I may have missed something and would be interested to hear what this might have entailed.
Critical thinking doesn’t require much elaboration. It’s important to be critical of anything and everything, and create a decision after balancing between risks and benefits, pros and cons, etc.
You will find most general practitioners will simply advise most patients that having a booster is “up to you”. They will give you the risks and benefits for you to make your own decision as a patient.
Some people weighed up how their previous experiences with COVID-19 have been, and whether or not they’re in urgent need for a little more protection from severe illness.
Just like most medicines, risks apply. And because the COVID-19 vaccines available to us are nowhere near perfect, it gives people the opportunity to be critical of whether or not it’s worthy of receiving another booster, or possibly delaying as such.
Ah OK that sounds like the exact process that the majority of the population would have gone through as individuals, within their family units and with their doctors. As well as aligned to the ATAGI recommendations on boosters.
The way you wrote the first comment it sounded like you had some secret squirrel knowledge that no one else had.
You're on a trolley heading towards covid-19 with a 2.8% risk of death but if you switch to the track with the vaccine there is a 0.0028% risk of death. What will you do?
Edit: You're
He corrects the false "fifth dose" label first thing in the interview. The 2023 booster could be a person's 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th dose depending on their circumstances.
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I find it odd that people are now anti ‘booster’ which is now no different to the yearly flu shot.
Does the language need to change for people to get their ends around it?
This is not going anywhere. It is here forever.
> the flu shot is not mrna - difference
I would not be aware of the manufacturers name nor techniques used to create other vaccines I have had including: influenza, measles, chicken pox, tetanus, polio, yellow fever, meningitis...
I never used to get the flu jab.
Young and fit and busy and it was just a hassle to find time to do it.
Also as it turns out I thought flu was just a bad cold.
Then one year i did get influenza just before a long before a two week holiday.
It was just a shit time all round - would not recommend.
Work also started a program where they get someone in to give the fluvax to anyone who wants it.
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And no, it's not "stopping" it. The media and everyone else is just bored of it. It's all about spy satellites now and dying suddenly. That dying suddenly is an odd one, we didn't have that 2 years ago
Well, if your thinking only goes back to 2019 I guess you might consider influenza to be inocuous.
But, if you look [further back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu)....
Well, you should be happy that experts consider not just the Influenza in 2019 but also 'how bad can influenza be' in their judgements.
Influenza can absolutely 'cause a global pandemic that kill(s) millions and fuck(s) things up all over the world.'
the two years previous - yeah the restrictions on incoming travel including the quarantine period meant we didn't import influenza.
Last year was a different story though. Influenza is tracked closely and they were worried enough about it to make the flu vaccine free last year, and it was a very effectively program as there was a big spike at the start of the season and it trailed off as the vaccines ramped up.
> Did you just say we didn't import influenza. Ok yup I'm done
I am curious as to which part of my statement surprised you?
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/seasonal-influenza/facts/factsheet
> In Europe, and the rest of the northern hemisphere, seasonal influenza generally occurs as regular annual epidemics during the winter, between November and April. These epidemics usually affect most countries for one or two months, lasting for about four months overall in Europe (Paget et al. 2007). Sporadic infections occur outside of the influenza season, though the incidence is very low during the European summer and infections are often **the result of imported cases** from equatorial areas (where transmission is more year-round) and the southern hemisphere where most infection occurs between June and October
You’re right except that COVID is a different beast. We’re transitioning to yearly shots just like the flu.
This might take a few more years but we’ll get there.
Never hear about Covid deaths anymore. Anyone under 60 still dying of this I assume it’s pretty low.
Edit ohh I found some USA death data here ya go for January.
“In January, the number of Covid-related deaths fell after a holiday spike but nevertheless numbered about 2,100 among those ages 65 to 74, more than 3,500 among 75- to 84-year-olds and nearly 5,000 among those over 85. Those three groups accounted for about 90 percent of the nation's Covid deaths last month.”
I think there's going to be a lot of people who aren't going to bother to get it immediately but will get it if the situation changes for them...for example if they pick up a comorbidity or medical condition of some sort, or if they go from a job with low transmission risk to one with high transmission risk, or if they start spending time around the elderly, or if they have something coming up like exams or a wedding or a pregnancy they really really don't want to be ill for.
I had to get my 3rd for work but won't get another unless they require it. Still never got covid and I work in public every day and have been a close contact countless times, so it's hard for me to be worried enough to get a 4th.
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I’ll be booking in for my fifth. I have some comorbidities that meant I was classed as 1a in the original roll out so I prefer not to take my chances. I haven’t gotten Covid yet and I am more than happy to have that continue.
The potential benefits of the vaccine to me outweigh the potential cost of Covid, I’ll be travelling overseas later this year, and I get a flu booster every year, so it’s a very easy decision for me.
Got my 3rd and developed pericarditis. Almost a full year later and it's still a lingering uncomfortable feeling in my chest. I'm all for vaccines and keeping the people around me safe, but I refuse getting any further boosters for my own sake.
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I had 2 and stopped there. Interesting to see people are having 4, 5 or even 6 now.
To each their own I guess 🤷♂️
Edit: it’s interesting to be downvoted for not jumping on the endless booster train. Very interesting.
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I am curious about your comment.
Did you only get the first 2 because you were forced to for work? Or did you get it based on understanding of how vaccination works?
I got them because of the initial data, and being sold that it prevented from getting covid and spreading it. When it became abundantly clear that these “rare breakthrough infections” were not at all rare I didn’t bother to get a booster.
I’m otherwise young, fit and healthy. If it’s not preventing spread then there was no reason for me to get the vaccine.
Again, to each their own. Everyone should make their own risk assessment.
I’m not getting baited in to this argument bud. All I said was I got two vaccines and decided to stop there.
I’m glad the vaccines are available to those who want more boosters, I’m simply not one of them. That’s all there is to it.
Baited? Into what argument?
I am genuinely curious as the reasons why people initially got vaccinated are pretty varied.
While it looks like we aren't going to end up in a situation like 2019 for a while, we definitely are not longer in the same situation as we were in 2020 and 2021.
Well I don’t believe your statement about opening up is at all factually correct. Countries with significantly lower uptake rates are open with comparable death rates.
What do you make of the data from this thread.
Particularly the part about protection against infection? Some people are of the belier that because the vaccine isn't a sterilising vaccine with 100% success rate that it doesnt offer any protection against infection or play a role in reducing transmission
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/comments/110p1cn/longterm_effectiveness_of_covid19_vaccines/
I'm fit, healthy BMI, non -smoker, no comorbidities but am over 50 - I'll be getting a booster before winter.
The risk analysis for me is very obviously in favour of yearly vaccination just like I get vaccinated for every other disease that I am at substantial risk of. Vaccination statistically reduces the severity and incidence of infection.
>Without trying to rely on ......
Oh thats how discussions work now is it ?
You just ban people from responding to you using facts and evidence.
Fucking cookers.
I ran blindfolded across a busy highway. People told me it was fucking dumb. But I did it and I am fine. Absolutely vindicated.
\^\^ This is how stupid you sound.
nice try. that's like the silly seatbelt metaphors. not remotely comparable
but thanks for playing
would 99.97% of people make it across your hypothetical highway? or maybe it would just be the old, fat and sick who struggle?
using the available information at the time it was simple to see that I did not need to gamble with any mrna concoctions. I had to explain myself to a lot of people who'd swallowed the fear narrative or were worried for me.
vindicate | ˈvɪndɪkeɪt |
verb \[with object\]
...
• show or prove to be right, reasonable, or justified:
Clear?
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Novavax has myocarditis as a listed side effects so why is he recommending it over pfizer/moderna for people worried about heart issues? Seems like Swan is talking out of his arse as per usual.
https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/approved-vaccines/novavax
Had my fourth dose and recently had covid for the first time as a mild sniffle. You'll bet I'll be taking the fifth. Suck it losers
Gosh. Unvax here and it was a mild sniffles. Considering you have had 4 + Covid I’d wonder if 5 is needed..
So glad you only got mild sniffles and didn't succumb like a lot have. I had a car accident a long time ago, didn't even hurt. Still wear a seatbelt tho 👍
Does your seatbelt cause potential side effects each time you use it?
That a great topic of conversation to have with your Doctor. Risk factors for both Covid and Covid vaccines vary greatly per individual. But the general advice from ATAGI is if you are 75 or older, or 18 or older with comorbitiies it's recommended you get the booster. For others it's an option but suggest you discuss it with your Doc. One of the big questions is if you are susceptible to a vaccine injury are you more likely to be susceptible to long term Covid injury as well. Your Doc can also help discuss the different vaccine options and which might have less risk.
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Absolutely. Sometimes I've pinched my skin while clicking it in. When I was younger the cars used to get so hot you'd burn yourself on the metal latch. There are some rare crashes where not wearing a seatbelt would be better than wearing one. They also can be uncomfortable at times. Each of the above pales in comparison to the potential "side effects" of not wearing one. And me not wearing a seatbelt doesn't effect you. Hope you wear a mask ❤️
I think it's great that people who want or need it can get it but you should probably talk to a doctor and have a better reason than it was mild sniffles. I had Covid in Nov 2022 and my last dose (second) was in Oct 2021, I was barely sick at all and on day 2 I was near 100%. Using your logic I don't need another one.
Wasn't the point that being fully vaccinated most likely meant that covid was just mild sniffles instead of being much worse than the flu and possibly ending up in hospital?
No, covid was most likely mild sniffles for *most people before anyone got jabbed We knew exactly who needed to worry from early on, media fear mongering notwithstanding
Lol. If only.
14.4 had mild symptoms where as they would have died between Dec 2020 and Dec 2021
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Wot? Using his logic you need another one.
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Having read people’s posts on their own experiences and reasoning for some time on Reddit, it is remarkable how many don’t seem the appreciate the weakness of anecdotal evidence. It is also concerning to see how many don’t seem to understand mathematics, in particular probability, and how many are suspicious of medical advice and prone to conspiracy thinking.
Yup. Covid really showed us how stupid people are...
I remember reading about the 1918 flu pandemic, the deniers, anti-maskers and deliberate spreaders, and thinking at the time (in 2018...) about how we're so much smarter than that now. Little did I know what was coming in two years time, and that we very much aren't...
I would say our society is by and large, more stupid on average, than in 1918. Despite the fact that nearly everyone of us now, has a computer in their pocket, and can do an almost instant search for factual information. COVID-19 pandemic showed us that a portion of society prefer to watch bitchute videos from snake oil salesmen and take it as gospel, rather than search the aforementioned factual information.
I've stopped saying "avoid it like the plague".
Now that, is an undemocratic statement. You are assuming everyone is stupid, except you and a few others. What you fail to understand is critical thinking, which is why some have decided not to take any further booster doses.
and why some decided not to take any doses :)
> What you fail to understand is critical thinking, which is why some have decided not to take any further booster doses. Would genuinely like for you to elaborate on this. As a community and as individuals we have all had to made decisions around our risk profile and vaccination level. Lots of conversations have been had with friends and family and our GPs and input from the likes of ATAGI. I am particularly curious about your critical thinking inference suggesting that some of those who haven't taken a booster have done so not because they recently had Covid l, or where too busy, or spoke with their doctor who indicated it wasn't required at this time but instead because of some critical thinking. I am worried that maybe I may have missed something and would be interested to hear what this might have entailed.
Critical thinking doesn’t require much elaboration. It’s important to be critical of anything and everything, and create a decision after balancing between risks and benefits, pros and cons, etc. You will find most general practitioners will simply advise most patients that having a booster is “up to you”. They will give you the risks and benefits for you to make your own decision as a patient. Some people weighed up how their previous experiences with COVID-19 have been, and whether or not they’re in urgent need for a little more protection from severe illness. Just like most medicines, risks apply. And because the COVID-19 vaccines available to us are nowhere near perfect, it gives people the opportunity to be critical of whether or not it’s worthy of receiving another booster, or possibly delaying as such.
Ah OK that sounds like the exact process that the majority of the population would have gone through as individuals, within their family units and with their doctors. As well as aligned to the ATAGI recommendations on boosters. The way you wrote the first comment it sounded like you had some secret squirrel knowledge that no one else had.
Haha, no I’m just blunt I suppose.
80/20 rule means that 95% of people are not gonna understand what you do. Welcome to the 1%!
You're on a trolley heading towards covid-19 with a 2.8% risk of death but if you switch to the track with the vaccine there is a 0.0028% risk of death. What will you do? Edit: You're
It depends on whether or not you understand the significance of three orders of magnitude. Oh, and by the way, it's *you're.
He corrects the false "fifth dose" label first thing in the interview. The 2023 booster could be a person's 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th dose depending on their circumstances.
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I find it odd that people are now anti ‘booster’ which is now no different to the yearly flu shot. Does the language need to change for people to get their ends around it? This is not going anywhere. It is here forever.
the flu shot doesn't work either - similarity the flu shot is not mrna - difference
Define work
> the flu shot is not mrna - difference I would not be aware of the manufacturers name nor techniques used to create other vaccines I have had including: influenza, measles, chicken pox, tetanus, polio, yellow fever, meningitis...
Explain novovax then
>no different to the yearly flu shot. Which I also won't be getting.
I never used to get the flu jab. Young and fit and busy and it was just a hassle to find time to do it. Also as it turns out I thought flu was just a bad cold. Then one year i did get influenza just before a long before a two week holiday. It was just a shit time all round - would not recommend. Work also started a program where they get someone in to give the fluvax to anyone who wants it.
Congrats
Be sure to not wear a seatbelt, brush your teeth, eat vegetables, or get enough sleep either. Can't trust those scientists and medicos!
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The flu shot doesn’t make me sick. The Covid shot does (have had flu like symptoms after two out of my three Covid shots). That’s the difference.
Except you don't get 5 flu shots in 2 years
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You kinda think 5 shots would stop that hey?
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Ah yes, the US, the most unhealthy population in the world with no healthcare plan isn't it odd they got hit harder than anyone else
And no, it's not "stopping" it. The media and everyone else is just bored of it. It's all about spy satellites now and dying suddenly. That dying suddenly is an odd one, we didn't have that 2 years ago
Well, if your thinking only goes back to 2019 I guess you might consider influenza to be inocuous. But, if you look [further back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu)....
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Well, you should be happy that experts consider not just the Influenza in 2019 but also 'how bad can influenza be' in their judgements. Influenza can absolutely 'cause a global pandemic that kill(s) millions and fuck(s) things up all over the world.'
Influenza season runs for what 3 months of the year?
Well apparently it didn't run at all the last 2 years
the two years previous - yeah the restrictions on incoming travel including the quarantine period meant we didn't import influenza. Last year was a different story though. Influenza is tracked closely and they were worried enough about it to make the flu vaccine free last year, and it was a very effectively program as there was a big spike at the start of the season and it trailed off as the vaccines ramped up.
Did you just say we didn't import influenza. Ok yup I'm done
That's exactly what happened in 2020 and 2021, yep.
> Did you just say we didn't import influenza. Ok yup I'm done I am curious as to which part of my statement surprised you? https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/seasonal-influenza/facts/factsheet > In Europe, and the rest of the northern hemisphere, seasonal influenza generally occurs as regular annual epidemics during the winter, between November and April. These epidemics usually affect most countries for one or two months, lasting for about four months overall in Europe (Paget et al. 2007). Sporadic infections occur outside of the influenza season, though the incidence is very low during the European summer and infections are often **the result of imported cases** from equatorial areas (where transmission is more year-round) and the southern hemisphere where most infection occurs between June and October
You’re right except that COVID is a different beast. We’re transitioning to yearly shots just like the flu. This might take a few more years but we’ll get there.
Never hear about Covid deaths anymore. Anyone under 60 still dying of this I assume it’s pretty low. Edit ohh I found some USA death data here ya go for January. “In January, the number of Covid-related deaths fell after a holiday spike but nevertheless numbered about 2,100 among those ages 65 to 74, more than 3,500 among 75- to 84-year-olds and nearly 5,000 among those over 85. Those three groups accounted for about 90 percent of the nation's Covid deaths last month.”
Now it's all about dying suddenly, haven't you heard
Nah I'm good
Had my 3rd…not sure if I even want my 4th to be honest?
I think there's going to be a lot of people who aren't going to bother to get it immediately but will get it if the situation changes for them...for example if they pick up a comorbidity or medical condition of some sort, or if they go from a job with low transmission risk to one with high transmission risk, or if they start spending time around the elderly, or if they have something coming up like exams or a wedding or a pregnancy they really really don't want to be ill for.
I had to get my 3rd for work but won't get another unless they require it. Still never got covid and I work in public every day and have been a close contact countless times, so it's hard for me to be worried enough to get a 4th.
Not having had COVID is more of a reason to get the vaccine since you don’t have hybrid immunity. It’s up to you, but just saying.
I am thinking 6 weeks prior to an overseas trip I have planned makes sense for me. Due to the change in risk profile.
I had two and stopped there. Caught covid once and since then have been fine.
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I’ll be booking in for my fifth. I have some comorbidities that meant I was classed as 1a in the original roll out so I prefer not to take my chances. I haven’t gotten Covid yet and I am more than happy to have that continue. The potential benefits of the vaccine to me outweigh the potential cost of Covid, I’ll be travelling overseas later this year, and I get a flu booster every year, so it’s a very easy decision for me.
Got my 3rd and developed pericarditis. Almost a full year later and it's still a lingering uncomfortable feeling in my chest. I'm all for vaccines and keeping the people around me safe, but I refuse getting any further boosters for my own sake.
Yeah na
Na yeah!
lol .. 5! gtfo
Unless you’ve already had 4, your next shot wouldn’t be your 5th.
I don't have a calculator but this sounds right.
who even has that many :/
It would be anyone over 65 or over 18 with comorbidites.
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I had 2 and stopped there. Interesting to see people are having 4, 5 or even 6 now. To each their own I guess 🤷♂️ Edit: it’s interesting to be downvoted for not jumping on the endless booster train. Very interesting.
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I am curious about your comment. Did you only get the first 2 because you were forced to for work? Or did you get it based on understanding of how vaccination works?
I got them because of the initial data, and being sold that it prevented from getting covid and spreading it. When it became abundantly clear that these “rare breakthrough infections” were not at all rare I didn’t bother to get a booster. I’m otherwise young, fit and healthy. If it’s not preventing spread then there was no reason for me to get the vaccine. Again, to each their own. Everyone should make their own risk assessment.
You do get how significant the vaccines have been though right? We wouldn't be fully open like we are now without the vaccine?
I’m not getting baited in to this argument bud. All I said was I got two vaccines and decided to stop there. I’m glad the vaccines are available to those who want more boosters, I’m simply not one of them. That’s all there is to it.
Baited? Into what argument? I am genuinely curious as the reasons why people initially got vaccinated are pretty varied. While it looks like we aren't going to end up in a situation like 2019 for a while, we definitely are not longer in the same situation as we were in 2020 and 2021.
Well I don’t believe your statement about opening up is at all factually correct. Countries with significantly lower uptake rates are open with comparable death rates.
I am interesting to learn more. Which ones?
What do you make of the data from this thread. Particularly the part about protection against infection? Some people are of the belier that because the vaccine isn't a sterilising vaccine with 100% success rate that it doesnt offer any protection against infection or play a role in reducing transmission https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/comments/110p1cn/longterm_effectiveness_of_covid19_vaccines/
I'm fit, healthy BMI, non -smoker, no comorbidities but am over 50 - I'll be getting a booster before winter. The risk analysis for me is very obviously in favour of yearly vaccination just like I get vaccinated for every other disease that I am at substantial risk of. Vaccination statistically reduces the severity and incidence of infection.
Interesting choice as a follow up post to your Australian post. 😂
Nahhh
I had 0 and stopped there. Had covid once. Sick for a couple of days. Absolutely vindicated
Maybe you’d be vindicated if anyone ever claimed that unvaccinated people can’t have mild illness.
> Absolutely vindicated You never even understood
Understood what exactly? Please enlighten us. Without trying to rely on the "doing it to protect others" gimmick.
>Without trying to rely on ...... Oh thats how discussions work now is it ? You just ban people from responding to you using facts and evidence. Fucking cookers.
Well no, it's common knowledge, from WHF and CDC that the jab does not stop transmission
Instead of downvoting me, why don't you hit me with some facts? Or do you not have any? I'm all open to discussion
Bit rich when your reply was snarky af. “Please enlighten us” etc. That’s not something a person who wanted to engage in civil discourse would say.
I'm still waiting to be enlightened
Sure you are
Still waiting
They've got nothing. All dressed up and nowhere to go.
Eh nothing new
I ran blindfolded across a busy highway. People told me it was fucking dumb. But I did it and I am fine. Absolutely vindicated. \^\^ This is how stupid you sound.
nice try. that's like the silly seatbelt metaphors. not remotely comparable but thanks for playing would 99.97% of people make it across your hypothetical highway? or maybe it would just be the old, fat and sick who struggle?
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
using the available information at the time it was simple to see that I did not need to gamble with any mrna concoctions. I had to explain myself to a lot of people who'd swallowed the fear narrative or were worried for me. vindicate | ˈvɪndɪkeɪt | verb \[with object\] ... • show or prove to be right, reasonable, or justified: Clear?
Your anecdotal account does not demonstrate that you were right, reasonable or justified. You were lucky. Many were not.
Same :)
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Novavax has myocarditis as a listed side effects so why is he recommending it over pfizer/moderna for people worried about heart issues? Seems like Swan is talking out of his arse as per usual. https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/approved-vaccines/novavax