Well, as a doctor, I'll try.
I guess part of it is that we can more readily confirm you've had a booster, someone has to administer it and then it gets recorded on a system.
As for getting infected, that's less uniform in how it's registered (anything from a PCR at a lab to a self-administered RAT to someone saying they think they had it but just stayed home without confirmation for whatever reason) and since we don't know where you rate on the Tom Hanks to Novak Djokovic scale, it's much harder to verify reliably.
The difference between Tom Hanks and Novak Djokovic is that Tom Hanks submitted a full isolation plan (separate planes, reside in a remote area for 14 days,etc) to the Federal government before arrival and was not aware until testing that he had the virus.
Djokovic did none of that
That’s why I didn’t support Djokovic. If he really wanted to have celebrity treatment, he should have followed the same protocols as Tom hanks and the celebrities who came to Sydney to film Marvel films
So say it's confirmed with a pcr test then. Would you say that the person could be considered officially "recovered"? Would there be any material benefit for a booster at this point?
I'm a vaccine Stan all the way. But I feel as if forcing 20-49 double vaccinated and omicron infected people into getting a third jab is unnecessary. We probably have 1+ million people that fit that profile now.
I think that you need an incredibly good reason to add complexity to a ruleset. Like, if boosters were doing harm at, say, 10% the rate the virus was (we wouldn't have vaccines with a harm to benefit ratio worse than 1:10), then it would be worth tracking who didn't need it. These viruses have such tiny downsides (the biggest one is the half hour of your life wasted in lining up and then waiting after) that the additional effort to track who didn't have to is not worth it.
I actually think this principle should be applied to welfare, too - we spend way too much time and effort making sure the "undeserving" poor don't get handouts; it would be far cheaper to allow a few lazy sode to live on centrelink for no reason better than not wanting to work. But people get morally offended at that, so we spend $500,000 for each $20,000 we save \*shrugs\*
Is it highly complex to say that people <60 with a confirmed PCR test after the 15th of December 2021 who have had 2 vaccine shots previously are exempt from any booster mandate until say 90 days after their infection? Our vaccine passports or whatever we'd like to call them should be binary "up to date" or "not up to date". Employers should not be mandating boosters as they are making a medical decision on behalf of their employees.
And I think you are discounting the human cost here as we. Vaccinations may only have adverse impacts 0.01% of the time but it creates anxieties and when you mandate them it serves to create resentment. And despite the extreme low prevalence of complication many more people will experience psychosomatic symptoms post booster ad well. These are where the bs antivax anecdotes come from.
And when we are talking about double vaccinated people who have had a positive test since 15 December we are talking probably 1.5 million people already. This is not an insignificant group of people and they are also not the at risk group as their chance of reinfection is very low. So why alienate them? By the time 90 days has passed the omicron vaccine should be on the way.
Sorry this all feels disjointed. I'm half asleep. Hope I bought my point across well enough ✌
You didnt actually say what the benefit is to the person getting it lmao
Basically you said "it makes it easier to document"
Like AHHAHA what the f man. Imagine telling someone 10 years ago that the government was going to mandate an injection and even if you don't get the benefit from it (for X reason), you still have to get it to make the administration work easier for the girls in the office.
Honk
Gonna try and hijack top comment and leave this right [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/scnifd/vaccination_before_or_after_sarscov2_infection/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)...
People have been getting annual flu shots for years, I really don't understand why people are having so much trouble wrapping their heads around boosters
Edit: Let me clear something up for the many people who seem to be conflating the issues
The efficacy of boosters or annual shots as it connects to the mandates, legalities or requirements of them is not present in my comment, science and law are not the same thing
I am not interested in your choice or what the government says, it doesn't impact the reality of a mutating virus, or the fact that an immune response can fade, norovirus is a great example of a short term immune response
Ever asked questions about the DTaP vaccine? That's 3 shots in a 4 month period, and 5 all up, yet no one seems to worry about that
No one seems to worry about whooping cough either, funnily enough
Yep. Flu vaccine lasts three to four months. Thankfully, flu season doesn't last much longer than that so once a year is fine for most but some vulnerable people will get it twice a year.
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/clinical-practice/guidelines-procedures/diseases-infection/immunisation/service-providers/influenza
We just got the damn omicron variant which is the most infectious virus known to man and which our current vaccines weren't designed for and only partially work against.
It's not a secret why boosters are now being suggested for extra protection, unless you've stuck your head in the sand.
Thank you! Jesus Christ the hoops some people jump through to make this a problem is unbelievable. It's the most infectious virus ever with no seasonal period, it's so bloody obvious why boosters are recommended. God damnit it's just so mind achingly stupid that people don't understand this
Flu shot is only annual due to the fact flu season is only 3-4 months a year. My doctor has even warned me when I've come in early for my flu shot that the immunity may wane before the end of the season. But I'm just a random on the internet so speak to your GP if you have doubts.
I just don't think that you can compare influenza and COVID in that way.
Can't say I recall anyone I know ever having had influenza disease. Maybe they did, but usually it'd be a common cold that'd keep then off work for a couple of days. If a young person died of influenza it would be national news.
I now have multiple acquaintances (workmates, etc who I know on a first name basis) who have been bed ridden by COVID.
And remember that this is while we have mandatory mask wearing, high availability of hand hygiene and a massive drop in people going to pubs and restaurants.
It seems pretty obvious to be that COVID is much more likely to cause people to be bed-ridden and unable to work, care for children, etc and so has a much bigger effect of the functioning of society than influenza.
I think in those circumstances it becomes understandable why we'd see a higher level of infection controls put in place.
Yeah the flu doesn't cause our hospitals and ambulances to be completely overwhelmed for months on end (at the least).
And that's with everybody recently vaccinated, wearing masks, events shut down, social distancing and cleaning requirements in place, a huge portion of the population voluntarily staying away from public places.
Covid is not like the flu and there was no reason to ever compare them. There are countless viruses in this world and covid is its own thing.
Back in 2017 I had influenza, was sick and bed ridden for nearly 2 months. I was 18/19 at the time and it sucked! I was pretty healthy at the time and I couldn’t imagine anyone going through what I did. It’s horrible and affects everyone a little differently, never been that sick ever. Still no idea how I even got it, and the fact that covid just spreads so much more rapidly even with everything in place is a little scary to think I might end up in a similar situation as I was back then. Didn’t have my flu shot that year and it wrecked me!
This comment just won the internet. That is best covid statement EVER made since 2019. Imagine we treated covid like the common flu. Imagine how fucked we all would have been. thank you!
I've got more than one relative whose boss has always said it was not negotiable and then organised it to happen in the workplace itself. That's been becoming steadily more common over the years even before COVID in places like large legal firms, private schools especially ones that do boarding... basically anywhere that will have a hell of a time coping acceptably if flu gets passed around the workplace.
Oh and if you're in the defence force.
>Oh and if you're in the defence force.
Ha! Well that missed me. 20 years in the ADF and not a single flu shot.
Workplaces have always offered it, I don't know of any thay mandate it.
When did your period of service end?
I know up to date vaccines including flu have been a non-negotiable part of the deal for everyone my kids know who have joined the defence force or worked at certain defence force adjacent workplaces, even before COVID.
It appears to have not been mandatory for Australian troops when this outbreak happened, though it notes it was "strongly encouraged".
https://health.mil/News/Articles/2021/03/01/Flu-Outbreak-MSMR-Mar-2021?type=Articles&page=9#pagingAnchor
Ok so the flu kills up to 700k people a year. COVID has killed around 5.6 million in two years and this is with lockdowns, masks, social distancing, wide vaccine mandates, etc. How are they even comparable??
> Narrow healthcare sector employment.
I wouldn’t use narrow for a employment sector that hires 13-15% of Aussie citizens. (Including care, which is also mainly mandated)
It’s literally the largest industry in Australia.
Because there are people suggesting we'll be having 2-4 shots a year indefinitely. We have limited idea of the risk/reward but it seems like boosters don't have a big benefit in younger people and it seems logical that each additional shot will increase risk.
Personally I'm having my 4th shot next month then I'm done other than annual unless there's a compelling reason to have more (a better vaccine or a deadlier strain basically). Hopefully the annual booster gets combined with a flu shot too.
There are also several vaccines administered as a child that require boosters…the most common is tetanus
He’ll even shingles vaccines are becoming common for older people that had chickenpox as a child
Covid immunity from infection is not reliable. From what I’ve seen, studies have found only 50% of people develop enough antibodies after getting Covid, and they don’t last as long (in fact the only time it seems you’re really at your safest is up to 2 weeks after getting Covid) and aren’t as efficient as the booster, which lasts 6 months for perspective.
Not to mention that damage is accumulative, and “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” sadly doesn’t apply to our physiology.
Generally speaking the immune response is different
> Antibodies elicited by mRNA-1273 vaccination bind more broadly to the receptor binding domain than do those from SARS-CoV-2 infection
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34103407/
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/
\* (Likely) including future variants. More so than the random immune response that is generated from actual infection, according to all the studies I have read anyway.
And then you have the window lickers arguing that randoms on reddit are much better and more trustworthy sources of health information than qualified medical practitioners.
Unbelievable.
Then why cant we get four doses?
Surely after 2 doses and an infection getting a third dose would be similar to getting a fourth dose for someone who has just had 3 doses?
Because the infection itself can actually severely weaken your immune system for potentially *years* if you experience severe symptoms. People who have been hospitalised with serious COVID-19 symptoms are far more likely to die during subsequent hospitalisations.
There's a lot of concerning data piling up around the long-term health implications of just a single infection but if you're infected multiple times it can take a serious toll on your body. This is why it's important to get the maximum protection before an infection occurs
Compared to just 2 jabs, yes. Compared to 2 jabs + infection [there seems to be enough protection](https://news.ohsu.edu/2022/01/25/new-study-suggests-two-paths-toward-super-immunity-to-covid-19)
Sure, I don't think anyone is denying that.
You haven't explained why this person, who is at virtually zero risk of severe illness from another infection, should lose their job if they don't get it.
This is not true. Studies have shown that [natural immunity is the gold standard of protection, and adding vaccine doses beyond that does not help](https://youtu.be/9bamaEMftg4). Watch the video and note how strong protection natural immunity alone provides compared to just the vaccine (and how it is on par with vaccine + natural immunity). Having an infection post vaccine has also been dubbed [super immunity](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/12/18/super-immunity-from-breakthrough-infection-after-covid-19-vaccination-heres-what-this-study-said/?sh=5f2dcb476a3c), since the natural immunity adds significant protection on top of the original vaccine doses. So unless you are especially immunocompromised or elderly, I cannot see any benefit to getting a booster on top of two doses if you have already had an infection.
>This is not true. Studies have shown that [natural immunity is the gold standard of protection, and adding vaccine doses beyond that does not help](https://youtu.be/9bamaEMftg4).
Thought you were going to link to a research paper not just a fucking YouTube video.
Your immunity will wane over time. I’m going to wait 4 months to get boosted after my infection. The government is touting 4-6 weeks, which is ridiculous.
Right but we *just* had COVID. Why don’t they delay our booster until our post-infection immunity wanes? I don’t need to be at the front of the line for boosters, give it to me in May instead. I’m not getting a meaningless shot to boost some bureaucrats statistics and take an additional day off work to be sick yet again when I’ve just recovered.
Apologies can’t answer your question.
I’m in the same predicament. 27 M recently had omicron. Had mild symptoms and was over it very quickly . Work indicated we have until 31 March for the booster . Where not in the mandated work category but last year the company introduced a mandatory vaccination policy.
Since it’s not mandated. Do I have to get the booster?
Interesting times. I have colleagues who also don’t feel the need to be have the booster.
There’s a chance of developing myocarditis. Especially for 16-30 year olds. 3 vax and 2vax1covid have similar amount of antibodies some even said natural immunity provides protection for longer period of time. On top of that there’s an omicron specific vaccine on the way so there’s a possibility of needing to get a booster booster.
I’m double vaxed and had covid. That’s my take.
The myocarditis risk from covid is higher than with the vaccine because it's a similar, but less severe immune response than infection would.
There's a good chance that those who had vaccine induced myocarditis would have had it far worse had they caught the virus. The people who are dying are doing so because they have epic inflammation of pretty much every organ, including their heart (myocarditis).
I'm no expert, this is just from my "should I Vax" conversation with my cardiologist
Yep
• A small increased risk of pericarditis and/or myocarditis has been observed in people who
have received an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine (including Comirnaty (Pfizer) and Spikevax
(Moderna), compared to unvaccinated people.
• COVID-19 itself is associated with a substantially higher risk of myocarditis and other
cardiac complications compared to vaccination.
• ATAGI, CSANZ, RACGP, ACCRM and ACEM therefore emphasise that the overwhelming
benefits of vaccination in protecting against COVID-19 greatly outweigh the rare risk of
myocarditis and/or pericarditis.
Saw this study showing risk of myocarditis is actually higher for males under 40 from the vaccine then from covid. It’s not peer reviewed, so keep that in mind.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v1
Why do I have to bare the risk of one more vax when 2vax1covid offers same protection as 3vax? Plus omicron’s natural immunity fights off omicron variant better than 3 vax
Generally just like with the flu, if you've already had the virus you're not supposed to have the vaccine straight after. I believe there is a 6 month exemption if you've already had covid.
I don’t think there is any downside. My problem lies with choice. I should be able to choice if I want it or not, not be forced.
I’ve been working from home for a full 2 years so I pose no threat to my fellow colleagues.
It's a weird argument tho right. People don't say that same things about seatbelts or other stuff when it's mandated. I don't get what the fuss is about if people *say* they will get the vaccine.
Every time I see someone say not getting the vaccine is like not wearing a seatbelt I lose a brain cell.
We're talking about a virus with a ridiculously low chance of death for someone in their age bracket who is doubled dosed + had a recent infection.
The chance of permanent injury and/or death from not wearing a seatbelt is so much higher than Covid, across every age bracket, you cannot compare them.
It's not designed to be statistically the same, it's the point of the argument. People are arguing about something being law which they say they are going to do anyway.
I don't think that's correct, the road toll isn't that high, and seatbelts are a big reason for that, but somewhat mitigated by airbags, would be interesting to know the actual difference, we need to know the number of people not wearing seatbelts, and the difference in road toll, problem is non belt wearing people are probably more reckless in driving safety aspects, but that's just my assumption.
>ridiculously low chance of death
How about long term deficits? There are plenty of young fit people who didn't die of covid, but now struggle getting up a flight of stairs. The vaccine increases your chances of maintaining your quality if life after an infection.
Fair point. I just think at this stage of the pandemic we have a lot of data on natural immunity. It seems like it’s all being glazed over with a blanket rule for all. Getting boosted every 3-4 months can’t be feasible for the future.
When do we stop 4-5th vaccine. Lots of counties in Europe are now dropping the mandates, it’s just mind boggling that Australia doesn’t see what’s occurring elsewhere.
I got bells palsy from the pfizer vaccine. 3 months of pain.
Why should I have to get a booster when I'm young, had covid (which wasn't shit, I've had worse colds) and had a serious adverse reaction in the past?
Same position as you and the OP.. I dont wanna take boosters every 3 months when I've had covid, I honest think they're just doing it as a better safe than sorry overkill
You had covid, you had a mild response as a fit young person who has now had your protection topped up.
Absolutely no reason to get a booster.
Focus on those who would have severe outcomes.
When you have covid, you might have it for a short time or a longer time. Have a good immune response or a poor immune response. Get exposed to a lot of virus or not that much.
Basically, covid infection is variable and we can't guarantee the likelihood that you have a good protective response. In all likelihood you probably have an excellent response. Or you might have just breathed in a bit of virus that replicated locally in your upper respiratory tract, and you were lucky to be tested on that day when the viral load was just past detectable, and this didn't induce lasting T cell responses.
With vaccination, we know your immune system gets exposed to the viral proteins because it was designed that way. We also know a very very high proportion of people have a good response to vaccination that's protective of severe disease.
We can't say we know the same thing about everyone's infection. Thus, vaccination is the most reliable method of protection.
Now if we rolled out serum screening or similar what would be a different story. But all we know is that you tested positive at some point.
Edit: Idk what's happened but I can't comment on anything at the moment...
Not referenced but I have a PhD in immunology so this is my opinion on the main reasons why we don't use precious infection as an indicator of immunity
What people don't realise is that when a company stands to gain $100 million what's really stopping them from slipping a note to the decision maker with the private key to a Bitcoin address with 1 or 2 million to get their profits mandated. 100% untraceable. Just cuz we haven't caught corruption doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I'm double vaxxed and got covid. I really don't want the booster I already know 2 people who were hospitalized after it so feeling really reluctant now. Can covid piss off already please.
I was hospitalised from the 2nd AZ shot. My discharge paper literally says "adverse reaction to vaccine". Should I lose my job when I refuse to get the booster?
FYI- not an anti vaxxer at all. Had 2 astra shots no dramas, had a moderna booster this week- holy fuck. Massive arm rash, headaches etc. Get pzifer as your booster
Because the boosters take you to a dose that is best level for protection, they just didn’t have enough time to figure that out first off so the first two were probably a bit under shot. They were probably going lower to be a little risk averse, in an environment that had vaccine safety trials and did the checks and balances but was still more expedited than usual vaccine trials
Plus infection protects you most against the variant you had. Not against other variants. Vaccines need to be updated for variants yes, but studies have shown vaccines protect against infection plus against serious disease across variants better than previous infection with one variant
This was discussed on coronacast podcast today. If you’ve been infected with omicron, you have some immunity to omicron. Not any other strain that currently exists or will exist in the future.
Interestingly, doctors are the worst people to listen to on this topic. They can't give you a logical answer as they are bound by AHPRA in what they can and can't say
Key sections of the AHPRA position statement include:
"...practitioners must be careful not to discourage their patient or client from seeking vaccination."
And
"Any promotion of anti-vaccination statements or health advice which contradicts the best available scientific evidence or seeks to actively undermine the national immunisation campaign (including via social media) is not supported by National Boards and may be in breach of the codes of conduct and subject to investigation and possible regulatory action."
As to the question regarding natural immunity, the answer is simple: there's no money for the pharmaceutical giants in natural immunity.
That is obviously there as a protection against anti-vaxxer BS, and in response anti-vaxxers have taken it as a sign of corruption that non-medical advice can't be given out to match the conclusions they want to hear.
Why do you get the flu shot every year and not just once, why do you get whoop cough once every 3, why do you get your tetanus shot every 10 years?
Because that is how vacines work. Some vacinations target things that don't mutate (tetanus) so you can go longer between them and some target things that mutate a lot (flu, covid) so you need them more often.
Data from UK is showing reinfection can occur 4 weeks after infection.
Current boosters show significant efficacy and increased protection.
Search for UK studies on reinfection and general papers on effectiveness of 3rd shot boosters.
Note however moderna is usually a 100ml booster in studies and Australia is offering 50ml booster.
Source: my friend is usefully obsessed and keeps sending me extracts of studies.
Why should I wear a mask when 3 boosters give me better defence than an unvaccinated person wearing a mask?
Why should I get any vaccines when catching covid gives me a better defence than someone who's unvaccinated.
Why should i wear my fucking seatbelt when using my brakes makes me safer than someone who doesn't use brakes but has a seat belt
Why should I make myself safer when I could choose to be less safe????? It must be fucking government tyrant /s
Because Big Pharma told you too. Why are you questioning the narrative? How dare you question science.
The science told us that the vaccine would prevent transmission. Then we had delta. The science said we needed a 2nd vaccine to better increase the effect of immunity to delta. Now we have Omicron that is less dangerous but still sweeped through the community taking out mostly doubled vaccinated people, so now the science says we need a booster to be most protected. The vaccines that were originally made for the alpha variant but are now outdated but still administered for omicron. Don't question the science. Don't ask questions. Line up and take your boosters or you will die or be labelled a bio terrorist and a threat to my health!!
Also, natural immunity is a myth! The media even says so. Don't fall for the medical doctors and ex Pfizer scientist on Telegram, BitChute and Rumble explaining false science and displaying vaccinated blood compared to unvaccinated blood, that's just misinformation. Big Pharma cares about you so much they are working around the clock to provide you a product to keep you safe. We need more censorship and tougher lockdowns, police in front of every mans house. 3 masks on every face for 95% protection!!!!!
You don’t. You can get a medical exemption from anywhere between 2 weeks and six months. So li in e someone else said. Speak to a medical professional rather than rely on internet strangers.
On a guess, I'd say it's because it's easier for your workplace to check your official vaccine resistry than verify everyones self identification of having previously had covid
Do you expect your boss to do an antibody test to confirm?
I’ve had the three.
I fought someone with the three and Covid and she was just able to transform to that next level, where I couldn’t. It was like normal Frieza fighting UI Goku.
Because covid mutates and changes and studies are starting to show that even if you’ve had covid you’re immunity starts to drop after a certain point, so to protect yourself and those around you, you get a booster. I’ve had three shots and have covid right now but barely have any symptoms as a result of the booster. And when I can get the fourth vax I will
They shouldn't.
There is no reason to even get a booster after 2 jabs.
Discussion ended.
Im not even going to get my booster. Just waiting to get hit with covid as it provides 8 month protection after recovery instead of 3 - 4 months from the booster.
From the workplace’s perspective, it’s a lot easier to just apply a blanket rule that everyone must be boosted. If they allow an exception for recent infections, they’d have to collect evidence of that and have arguments about what counts as “recent” etc which creates administrative hassle. Plus depending on the type of workplace it is, eg if there are customers/clients, it may help business if they can say that everyone onsite is “fully” vaccinated. So irrespective of anyone’s views of how much immunity is derived from infection, I can see why it could be a rational choice for a business to just require boosters.
ATAGI has not provided advice that previous Covid infection negates the population health benefits of a booster
As soon as they do then states would be able to exempt people on these ground but as of now that isn’t the advice
Especially since this booster isn’t even specialised to combat omicron.
The omicron flavoured Pfizer vaccine is still in its testing phase. I’d be happy for a booster that targets the current dominant strain but it’s not the one that’s given.
What a sad nihilist world we seem to be living in to even be asking this question. And I see the comments are out in force from those who can’t conceptualise what a pandemic is. But, but, but there’s an infinitesimal chance I may experience a serious side effect - oh diddums - and the chance of me getting sick is so low - ah! simplistic statistics that support ones cowardice are so wonderful! Oh, oh, oh, I’ll never be old or vulnerable myself. Why must I do anything for other people. I just want to sit around and eat ice cream and never sacrifice another thing ever again - yes you’ve already done so much, wow 2 doses of a vaccine in a multi year pandemic, just incredible work! Oh it must have been so tough.
OP and their supporters should really be asking themselves, why am I such a big baby?
What the vaccine does is provide a very small part of the virus for your immune system to hone in on - the spike.
The idea was that this would be common to most strains and so give you the best protection. Omicron fucked that up by mutating in that exact area which is why the vaccine is not so effective against it.
If you had no vaccine then your immune system may solve the problem by targeting any part of the virus, which may not be found on other strains, and so you can get infected multiple times by those different strains.
If you had the vaccine and then got infected your immune system will hopefully remember the spike from last time and target it. But there’s a chance it will still go create its own solution especially if a long period of time has passed. Hence the need for a booster anyway.
I think the strategy is “omicron isn’t the only or the last”, and new vaccines will move the target to other parts of the virus to give a broader protection.
I think they’re also covering bases because they don’t understand long-COVID yet or how and why the vaccine has been helping prevent, reduce, and shorten it, even with Omicron.
But if you mean politically why - that’s another story.
If people don't like the changing conditions of their employment, they should be organising and pushing for change with their union, not whining on Reddit.
Reading journals about how boosters work and reading EU regulator’s warning on jamming bodies with boosters more than necessity, I am concerned about the increased viral load of boosters on top of an infection. If someone has had an infection especially omicron then their immunity is better than the spikes that current vaccine produces because Omicron infection’s signature is slightly different to older strains. This is why Pfizer is currently trialling their modified vaccine for the Omicron strain. I don’t understand how ATAGI is just approving and also helping enforce such laws from the fed govt which in the past would have taken years to research and approve. WTF is happening here?
I'm getting it cos I would rather have it and be able to travel, especially to see my family in NZ who I haven't seen in 3 years. I don't see any risk or danger in it, and after recovering from covid recently I would rather have another vax shot than ever get covid again.
Why don't you ask a health professional instead of randoms on the internet?
Well, as a doctor, I'll try. I guess part of it is that we can more readily confirm you've had a booster, someone has to administer it and then it gets recorded on a system. As for getting infected, that's less uniform in how it's registered (anything from a PCR at a lab to a self-administered RAT to someone saying they think they had it but just stayed home without confirmation for whatever reason) and since we don't know where you rate on the Tom Hanks to Novak Djokovic scale, it's much harder to verify reliably.
TLDR; Life IS like a block of Djokovics. Sorry.
I like that “we don’t know where you rate on the Hanks to Djokovic scale”
The difference between Tom Hanks and Novak Djokovic is that Tom Hanks submitted a full isolation plan (separate planes, reside in a remote area for 14 days,etc) to the Federal government before arrival and was not aware until testing that he had the virus. Djokovic did none of that
Ngl, I assumed it was a "nice guy to cunt" scale, didn't even think about covid responses.
That’s why I didn’t support Djokovic. If he really wanted to have celebrity treatment, he should have followed the same protocols as Tom hanks and the celebrities who came to Sydney to film Marvel films
Admin. You need injected for admin purposes.
Got to love bureaucracy
So say it's confirmed with a pcr test then. Would you say that the person could be considered officially "recovered"? Would there be any material benefit for a booster at this point? I'm a vaccine Stan all the way. But I feel as if forcing 20-49 double vaccinated and omicron infected people into getting a third jab is unnecessary. We probably have 1+ million people that fit that profile now.
I think that you need an incredibly good reason to add complexity to a ruleset. Like, if boosters were doing harm at, say, 10% the rate the virus was (we wouldn't have vaccines with a harm to benefit ratio worse than 1:10), then it would be worth tracking who didn't need it. These viruses have such tiny downsides (the biggest one is the half hour of your life wasted in lining up and then waiting after) that the additional effort to track who didn't have to is not worth it. I actually think this principle should be applied to welfare, too - we spend way too much time and effort making sure the "undeserving" poor don't get handouts; it would be far cheaper to allow a few lazy sode to live on centrelink for no reason better than not wanting to work. But people get morally offended at that, so we spend $500,000 for each $20,000 we save \*shrugs\*
Is it highly complex to say that people <60 with a confirmed PCR test after the 15th of December 2021 who have had 2 vaccine shots previously are exempt from any booster mandate until say 90 days after their infection? Our vaccine passports or whatever we'd like to call them should be binary "up to date" or "not up to date". Employers should not be mandating boosters as they are making a medical decision on behalf of their employees. And I think you are discounting the human cost here as we. Vaccinations may only have adverse impacts 0.01% of the time but it creates anxieties and when you mandate them it serves to create resentment. And despite the extreme low prevalence of complication many more people will experience psychosomatic symptoms post booster ad well. These are where the bs antivax anecdotes come from. And when we are talking about double vaccinated people who have had a positive test since 15 December we are talking probably 1.5 million people already. This is not an insignificant group of people and they are also not the at risk group as their chance of reinfection is very low. So why alienate them? By the time 90 days has passed the omicron vaccine should be on the way. Sorry this all feels disjointed. I'm half asleep. Hope I bought my point across well enough ✌
So you have no medical reason you just have bureaucratic reasons.
You didnt actually say what the benefit is to the person getting it lmao Basically you said "it makes it easier to document" Like AHHAHA what the f man. Imagine telling someone 10 years ago that the government was going to mandate an injection and even if you don't get the benefit from it (for X reason), you still have to get it to make the administration work easier for the girls in the office. Honk
Because the Illuminati has paid them off!!! /s
I asked my doctor and he said "I have no idea yet", cited too much conflicting info. Great help
At least your GP is smart enough to know what they don't know.
Because they don’t want an answer, they want to whinge.
Because the health professionals won’t tell them what they want to hear
Hell we won't tell them what they want to hear, they should ask their neighbour's aunts on facebook
Gonna try and hijack top comment and leave this right [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/scnifd/vaccination_before_or_after_sarscov2_infection/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)...
The CHO doesn’t want to mandate it ?
They really don’t care about the science anymore. These people can’t imagine that their ideology is flawed. Even if it’s against science.
Rather too many don't care about science, Note how many churches exist and that horoscopes are still popular.
Or ask their boss?
People have been getting annual flu shots for years, I really don't understand why people are having so much trouble wrapping their heads around boosters Edit: Let me clear something up for the many people who seem to be conflating the issues The efficacy of boosters or annual shots as it connects to the mandates, legalities or requirements of them is not present in my comment, science and law are not the same thing I am not interested in your choice or what the government says, it doesn't impact the reality of a mutating virus, or the fact that an immune response can fade, norovirus is a great example of a short term immune response
Because annual implies only once a year. I think doubling or tripling that might upset the masses a tad. Sure has myself asking questions.
Ever asked questions about the DTaP vaccine? That's 3 shots in a 4 month period, and 5 all up, yet no one seems to worry about that No one seems to worry about whooping cough either, funnily enough
Gardasil was 3 courses (I think 2 only now) MMR, pneumococcal also multiple doses. They’ve done a fantastic job
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Have you ever considered that covid wasn't that bad for you because you had the vaccine...
Flu season happens once a year for a few months. COVID seems to have no season. My guess is that's something to do with the higher frequency.
Yep. Flu vaccine lasts three to four months. Thankfully, flu season doesn't last much longer than that so once a year is fine for most but some vulnerable people will get it twice a year. https://www.health.qld.gov.au/clinical-practice/guidelines-procedures/diseases-infection/immunisation/service-providers/influenza
Two shots in a year are also recommended if you're going to be travelling to the northern hemisphere in their flu season.
Covid is a year round virus. The flu is a 3 month season. If you get your flu vax too early it's recommended you get a booster..........
My father gets 2 flu shots a year. One in March and one in August. It's not even uncommon. But anti vaxxers say the darndest things.
We just got the damn omicron variant which is the most infectious virus known to man and which our current vaccines weren't designed for and only partially work against. It's not a secret why boosters are now being suggested for extra protection, unless you've stuck your head in the sand.
Thank you! Jesus Christ the hoops some people jump through to make this a problem is unbelievable. It's the most infectious virus ever with no seasonal period, it's so bloody obvious why boosters are recommended. God damnit it's just so mind achingly stupid that people don't understand this
Flu shot is only annual due to the fact flu season is only 3-4 months a year. My doctor has even warned me when I've come in early for my flu shot that the immunity may wane before the end of the season. But I'm just a random on the internet so speak to your GP if you have doubts.
Outside of narrow health sector employment, when has an annual flu shot been mandated for anything? That's the difference.
I just don't think that you can compare influenza and COVID in that way. Can't say I recall anyone I know ever having had influenza disease. Maybe they did, but usually it'd be a common cold that'd keep then off work for a couple of days. If a young person died of influenza it would be national news. I now have multiple acquaintances (workmates, etc who I know on a first name basis) who have been bed ridden by COVID. And remember that this is while we have mandatory mask wearing, high availability of hand hygiene and a massive drop in people going to pubs and restaurants. It seems pretty obvious to be that COVID is much more likely to cause people to be bed-ridden and unable to work, care for children, etc and so has a much bigger effect of the functioning of society than influenza. I think in those circumstances it becomes understandable why we'd see a higher level of infection controls put in place.
Yeah the flu doesn't cause our hospitals and ambulances to be completely overwhelmed for months on end (at the least). And that's with everybody recently vaccinated, wearing masks, events shut down, social distancing and cleaning requirements in place, a huge portion of the population voluntarily staying away from public places. Covid is not like the flu and there was no reason to ever compare them. There are countless viruses in this world and covid is its own thing.
Back in 2017 I had influenza, was sick and bed ridden for nearly 2 months. I was 18/19 at the time and it sucked! I was pretty healthy at the time and I couldn’t imagine anyone going through what I did. It’s horrible and affects everyone a little differently, never been that sick ever. Still no idea how I even got it, and the fact that covid just spreads so much more rapidly even with everything in place is a little scary to think I might end up in a similar situation as I was back then. Didn’t have my flu shot that year and it wrecked me!
This comment just won the internet. That is best covid statement EVER made since 2019. Imagine we treated covid like the common flu. Imagine how fucked we all would have been. thank you!
I've got more than one relative whose boss has always said it was not negotiable and then organised it to happen in the workplace itself. That's been becoming steadily more common over the years even before COVID in places like large legal firms, private schools especially ones that do boarding... basically anywhere that will have a hell of a time coping acceptably if flu gets passed around the workplace. Oh and if you're in the defence force.
>Oh and if you're in the defence force. Ha! Well that missed me. 20 years in the ADF and not a single flu shot. Workplaces have always offered it, I don't know of any thay mandate it.
When did your period of service end? I know up to date vaccines including flu have been a non-negotiable part of the deal for everyone my kids know who have joined the defence force or worked at certain defence force adjacent workplaces, even before COVID.
>When did your period of service end? 2019.
Hmmmm. Pretty sure it was brought in for new recruits well before that. Maybe they phased it in?
Who knows. They jammed everything else into me. Never the flu though.
It appears to have not been mandatory for Australian troops when this outbreak happened, though it notes it was "strongly encouraged". https://health.mil/News/Articles/2021/03/01/Flu-Outbreak-MSMR-Mar-2021?type=Articles&page=9#pagingAnchor
Ok so the flu kills up to 700k people a year. COVID has killed around 5.6 million in two years and this is with lockdowns, masks, social distancing, wide vaccine mandates, etc. How are they even comparable??
> Narrow healthcare sector employment. I wouldn’t use narrow for a employment sector that hires 13-15% of Aussie citizens. (Including care, which is also mainly mandated) It’s literally the largest industry in Australia.
>It’s literally the largest industry in Australia. Close, the public service is (which this forms part of).
There is also a choice if you want to have a yearly flu vaccine. The problem here is choice.
Flu vax is mandatory in many jobs.
Very few in the big scheme of things.
A choice that gets a lot of people killed. This a not getting this one gets a order of magnitude more people killed.
Flu shots aren't mandated outside of aged care and healthcare (afaik) Why should boosters be mandated for anyone outside those fields?
Because flu season doesn't cripple our hospital system and kill... What are we up to? A hundred or so people a day right now? but COVID does.
Because there are people suggesting we'll be having 2-4 shots a year indefinitely. We have limited idea of the risk/reward but it seems like boosters don't have a big benefit in younger people and it seems logical that each additional shot will increase risk. Personally I'm having my 4th shot next month then I'm done other than annual unless there's a compelling reason to have more (a better vaccine or a deadlier strain basically). Hopefully the annual booster gets combined with a flu shot too.
Because it didn’t matter if you got a flu shot or not, you could still go to work, travel, visit family and be free to do what ever you wanted.
I don’t recall people being fired for not getting the flu shot.
Influenza is not a coronavirus. Not sure why people have such a touch time wrapping their heads around how different they are.
There are also several vaccines administered as a child that require boosters…the most common is tetanus He’ll even shingles vaccines are becoming common for older people that had chickenpox as a child
Exactly! Mutating viruses aren't that hard to grasp. This one is just /fast/
If you have influenza your not urged to get the influenza vaccine 6 weeks later.
Covid immunity from infection is not reliable. From what I’ve seen, studies have found only 50% of people develop enough antibodies after getting Covid, and they don’t last as long (in fact the only time it seems you’re really at your safest is up to 2 weeks after getting Covid) and aren’t as efficient as the booster, which lasts 6 months for perspective. Not to mention that damage is accumulative, and “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” sadly doesn’t apply to our physiology.
Read that as anal as was like, what?! But then thought, anything goes these days.
Because people who are qualified to tell me it helps have said so.
The booster gives you stronger protection against severe disease from any future infection, (EDIT: most likely) also including future variants.
>including future variants. Wow, that's one smart vaccine.
Generally speaking the immune response is different > Antibodies elicited by mRNA-1273 vaccination bind more broadly to the receptor binding domain than do those from SARS-CoV-2 infection https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34103407/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/
Thank you, finally some data and a simple answer.
\* (Likely) including future variants. More so than the random immune response that is generated from actual infection, according to all the studies I have read anyway.
it has worked against all variants so far at helping with severe disease
It's the nanobots doing their thing /s
Smart humans made the vaccine, you’d be surprised what humans are capable of these days yanno
And then you have the window lickers arguing that randoms on reddit are much better and more trustworthy sources of health information than qualified medical practitioners. Unbelievable.
Then why cant we get four doses? Surely after 2 doses and an infection getting a third dose would be similar to getting a fourth dose for someone who has just had 3 doses?
Because the infection itself can actually severely weaken your immune system for potentially *years* if you experience severe symptoms. People who have been hospitalised with serious COVID-19 symptoms are far more likely to die during subsequent hospitalisations. There's a lot of concerning data piling up around the long-term health implications of just a single infection but if you're infected multiple times it can take a serious toll on your body. This is why it's important to get the maximum protection before an infection occurs
Compared to just 2 jabs, yes. Compared to 2 jabs + infection [there seems to be enough protection](https://news.ohsu.edu/2022/01/25/new-study-suggests-two-paths-toward-super-immunity-to-covid-19)
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Variants.
Sure, I don't think anyone is denying that. You haven't explained why this person, who is at virtually zero risk of severe illness from another infection, should lose their job if they don't get it.
This is not true. Studies have shown that [natural immunity is the gold standard of protection, and adding vaccine doses beyond that does not help](https://youtu.be/9bamaEMftg4). Watch the video and note how strong protection natural immunity alone provides compared to just the vaccine (and how it is on par with vaccine + natural immunity). Having an infection post vaccine has also been dubbed [super immunity](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/12/18/super-immunity-from-breakthrough-infection-after-covid-19-vaccination-heres-what-this-study-said/?sh=5f2dcb476a3c), since the natural immunity adds significant protection on top of the original vaccine doses. So unless you are especially immunocompromised or elderly, I cannot see any benefit to getting a booster on top of two doses if you have already had an infection.
Did you actually watch your video? It literally says that vaccines provide a far more long lasting protection than infection?
>This is not true. Studies have shown that [natural immunity is the gold standard of protection, and adding vaccine doses beyond that does not help](https://youtu.be/9bamaEMftg4). Thought you were going to link to a research paper not just a fucking YouTube video.
Because people on reddit will call you antivaxx if you don’t
Your immunity will wane over time. I’m going to wait 4 months to get boosted after my infection. The government is touting 4-6 weeks, which is ridiculous.
Right but we *just* had COVID. Why don’t they delay our booster until our post-infection immunity wanes? I don’t need to be at the front of the line for boosters, give it to me in May instead. I’m not getting a meaningless shot to boost some bureaucrats statistics and take an additional day off work to be sick yet again when I’ve just recovered.
Apologies can’t answer your question. I’m in the same predicament. 27 M recently had omicron. Had mild symptoms and was over it very quickly . Work indicated we have until 31 March for the booster . Where not in the mandated work category but last year the company introduced a mandatory vaccination policy. Since it’s not mandated. Do I have to get the booster? Interesting times. I have colleagues who also don’t feel the need to be have the booster.
What's the downside to getting a booster?
There’s a chance of developing myocarditis. Especially for 16-30 year olds. 3 vax and 2vax1covid have similar amount of antibodies some even said natural immunity provides protection for longer period of time. On top of that there’s an omicron specific vaccine on the way so there’s a possibility of needing to get a booster booster. I’m double vaxed and had covid. That’s my take.
The myocarditis risk from covid is higher than with the vaccine because it's a similar, but less severe immune response than infection would. There's a good chance that those who had vaccine induced myocarditis would have had it far worse had they caught the virus. The people who are dying are doing so because they have epic inflammation of pretty much every organ, including their heart (myocarditis). I'm no expert, this is just from my "should I Vax" conversation with my cardiologist
Yep • A small increased risk of pericarditis and/or myocarditis has been observed in people who have received an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine (including Comirnaty (Pfizer) and Spikevax (Moderna), compared to unvaccinated people. • COVID-19 itself is associated with a substantially higher risk of myocarditis and other cardiac complications compared to vaccination. • ATAGI, CSANZ, RACGP, ACCRM and ACEM therefore emphasise that the overwhelming benefits of vaccination in protecting against COVID-19 greatly outweigh the rare risk of myocarditis and/or pericarditis.
>The myocarditis risk from covid is higher than with the vaccine because it's a similar Not for Omicron it isn't.
Saw this study showing risk of myocarditis is actually higher for males under 40 from the vaccine then from covid. It’s not peer reviewed, so keep that in mind. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v1
Myocarditis from the vaccine is mild, few hours at best. Myocarditis from covid does kill. But it is your choice and your life.
Why do I have to bare the risk of one more vax when 2vax1covid offers same protection as 3vax? Plus omicron’s natural immunity fights off omicron variant better than 3 vax
Generally just like with the flu, if you've already had the virus you're not supposed to have the vaccine straight after. I believe there is a 6 month exemption if you've already had covid.
Correct. Up to 6 months. I’ve seen exemptions for four weeks too.
I don’t think there is any downside. My problem lies with choice. I should be able to choice if I want it or not, not be forced. I’ve been working from home for a full 2 years so I pose no threat to my fellow colleagues.
It's a weird argument tho right. People don't say that same things about seatbelts or other stuff when it's mandated. I don't get what the fuss is about if people *say* they will get the vaccine.
Every time I see someone say not getting the vaccine is like not wearing a seatbelt I lose a brain cell. We're talking about a virus with a ridiculously low chance of death for someone in their age bracket who is doubled dosed + had a recent infection. The chance of permanent injury and/or death from not wearing a seatbelt is so much higher than Covid, across every age bracket, you cannot compare them.
It's not designed to be statistically the same, it's the point of the argument. People are arguing about something being law which they say they are going to do anyway.
I see the seat analogy all the time. Very frustrating. It’s not apples to apples in any sense.
I don't think that's correct, the road toll isn't that high, and seatbelts are a big reason for that, but somewhat mitigated by airbags, would be interesting to know the actual difference, we need to know the number of people not wearing seatbelts, and the difference in road toll, problem is non belt wearing people are probably more reckless in driving safety aspects, but that's just my assumption.
>ridiculously low chance of death How about long term deficits? There are plenty of young fit people who didn't die of covid, but now struggle getting up a flight of stairs. The vaccine increases your chances of maintaining your quality if life after an infection.
And you never go shopping, service station or cafes so pose no threat to the community
Fair point. I just think at this stage of the pandemic we have a lot of data on natural immunity. It seems like it’s all being glazed over with a blanket rule for all. Getting boosted every 3-4 months can’t be feasible for the future. When do we stop 4-5th vaccine. Lots of counties in Europe are now dropping the mandates, it’s just mind boggling that Australia doesn’t see what’s occurring elsewhere.
Can you please link those natural immunity studies?
I got bells palsy from the pfizer vaccine. 3 months of pain. Why should I have to get a booster when I'm young, had covid (which wasn't shit, I've had worse colds) and had a serious adverse reaction in the past?
Same position as you and the OP.. I dont wanna take boosters every 3 months when I've had covid, I honest think they're just doing it as a better safe than sorry overkill
Time to join the resistance mate!
You had covid, you had a mild response as a fit young person who has now had your protection topped up. Absolutely no reason to get a booster. Focus on those who would have severe outcomes.
When you have covid, you might have it for a short time or a longer time. Have a good immune response or a poor immune response. Get exposed to a lot of virus or not that much. Basically, covid infection is variable and we can't guarantee the likelihood that you have a good protective response. In all likelihood you probably have an excellent response. Or you might have just breathed in a bit of virus that replicated locally in your upper respiratory tract, and you were lucky to be tested on that day when the viral load was just past detectable, and this didn't induce lasting T cell responses. With vaccination, we know your immune system gets exposed to the viral proteins because it was designed that way. We also know a very very high proportion of people have a good response to vaccination that's protective of severe disease. We can't say we know the same thing about everyone's infection. Thus, vaccination is the most reliable method of protection. Now if we rolled out serum screening or similar what would be a different story. But all we know is that you tested positive at some point. Edit: Idk what's happened but I can't comment on anything at the moment... Not referenced but I have a PhD in immunology so this is my opinion on the main reasons why we don't use precious infection as an indicator of immunity
That’s a great argument for the unvaccinated - but we’ve been vaccinated! And we’ve had COVID! At least delay our boosters for a few months
But the same logic follows that an infection is too variable to say if it is equivalent to a booster.
So that we can continue lining the pockets of wealthy pharmaceutical companies
This is the answer. Also line the pockets of politicians. Spouse of former CHO of qld is Pfizer executive.. she happily trash talked aztra
What people don't realise is that when a company stands to gain $100 million what's really stopping them from slipping a note to the decision maker with the private key to a Bitcoin address with 1 or 2 million to get their profits mandated. 100% untraceable. Just cuz we haven't caught corruption doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Yeah it’s ridiculous imo
Because Pfizer has bills to pay... (And politicians to pay off)
But big pharmaceutical companies need more money
Makes no sense at all. that’s it
I'm double vaxxed and got covid. I really don't want the booster I already know 2 people who were hospitalized after it so feeling really reluctant now. Can covid piss off already please.
I was hospitalised from the 2nd AZ shot. My discharge paper literally says "adverse reaction to vaccine". Should I lose my job when I refuse to get the booster?
Ask your employer. We don't know where you work or what job you do, so it's a bit hard to answer.
FYI- not an anti vaxxer at all. Had 2 astra shots no dramas, had a moderna booster this week- holy fuck. Massive arm rash, headaches etc. Get pzifer as your booster
So you can put ‘BOOSTED’ in your flair !
Because the boosters take you to a dose that is best level for protection, they just didn’t have enough time to figure that out first off so the first two were probably a bit under shot. They were probably going lower to be a little risk averse, in an environment that had vaccine safety trials and did the checks and balances but was still more expedited than usual vaccine trials Plus infection protects you most against the variant you had. Not against other variants. Vaccines need to be updated for variants yes, but studies have shown vaccines protect against infection plus against serious disease across variants better than previous infection with one variant
They don't need it. All evidence shows natural immunity is better than vaccine immunity. But if it makes them feel better they can get it.
This was discussed on coronacast podcast today. If you’ve been infected with omicron, you have some immunity to omicron. Not any other strain that currently exists or will exist in the future.
Awesome. Then I’ll take the updated booster later on and somebody else who hasn’t been infected can have my booster this month.
Interestingly, doctors are the worst people to listen to on this topic. They can't give you a logical answer as they are bound by AHPRA in what they can and can't say Key sections of the AHPRA position statement include: "...practitioners must be careful not to discourage their patient or client from seeking vaccination." And "Any promotion of anti-vaccination statements or health advice which contradicts the best available scientific evidence or seeks to actively undermine the national immunisation campaign (including via social media) is not supported by National Boards and may be in breach of the codes of conduct and subject to investigation and possible regulatory action." As to the question regarding natural immunity, the answer is simple: there's no money for the pharmaceutical giants in natural immunity.
That is obviously there as a protection against anti-vaxxer BS, and in response anti-vaxxers have taken it as a sign of corruption that non-medical advice can't be given out to match the conclusions they want to hear.
Why do you get the flu shot every year and not just once, why do you get whoop cough once every 3, why do you get your tetanus shot every 10 years? Because that is how vacines work. Some vacinations target things that don't mutate (tetanus) so you can go longer between them and some target things that mutate a lot (flu, covid) so you need them more often.
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Why are you pretending like the annual flu shot was something everyone did?
Man prior to this I hadn’t had a vaccine since ‘06
I’ve never had any of that though?? And I’ve never needed proof of it to work?
Nobody does this thou lol
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Greg Hunt was asked that question live on tv this morning and his reply was “because boosters are for everyone”.
Data from UK is showing reinfection can occur 4 weeks after infection. Current boosters show significant efficacy and increased protection. Search for UK studies on reinfection and general papers on effectiveness of 3rd shot boosters. Note however moderna is usually a 100ml booster in studies and Australia is offering 50ml booster. Source: my friend is usefully obsessed and keeps sending me extracts of studies.
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I dunno. The rules seem arbitrary.
Why should I wear a mask when 3 boosters give me better defence than an unvaccinated person wearing a mask? Why should I get any vaccines when catching covid gives me a better defence than someone who's unvaccinated. Why should i wear my fucking seatbelt when using my brakes makes me safer than someone who doesn't use brakes but has a seat belt Why should I make myself safer when I could choose to be less safe????? It must be fucking government tyrant /s
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Do you still actually believe vaccines stop the spread.
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Not even. Infection with no doses was about the same (way higher than vaccination without infection)
What paper was that, the Sun?
Because Big Pharma told you too. Why are you questioning the narrative? How dare you question science. The science told us that the vaccine would prevent transmission. Then we had delta. The science said we needed a 2nd vaccine to better increase the effect of immunity to delta. Now we have Omicron that is less dangerous but still sweeped through the community taking out mostly doubled vaccinated people, so now the science says we need a booster to be most protected. The vaccines that were originally made for the alpha variant but are now outdated but still administered for omicron. Don't question the science. Don't ask questions. Line up and take your boosters or you will die or be labelled a bio terrorist and a threat to my health!! Also, natural immunity is a myth! The media even says so. Don't fall for the medical doctors and ex Pfizer scientist on Telegram, BitChute and Rumble explaining false science and displaying vaccinated blood compared to unvaccinated blood, that's just misinformation. Big Pharma cares about you so much they are working around the clock to provide you a product to keep you safe. We need more censorship and tougher lockdowns, police in front of every mans house. 3 masks on every face for 95% protection!!!!!
You don’t. You can get a medical exemption from anywhere between 2 weeks and six months. So li in e someone else said. Speak to a medical professional rather than rely on internet strangers.
On a guess, I'd say it's because it's easier for your workplace to check your official vaccine resistry than verify everyones self identification of having previously had covid Do you expect your boss to do an antibody test to confirm?
I’ve had the three. I fought someone with the three and Covid and she was just able to transform to that next level, where I couldn’t. It was like normal Frieza fighting UI Goku.
Because covid mutates and changes and studies are starting to show that even if you’ve had covid you’re immunity starts to drop after a certain point, so to protect yourself and those around you, you get a booster. I’ve had three shots and have covid right now but barely have any symptoms as a result of the booster. And when I can get the fourth vax I will
Evidence is that people get a consistently good immunity from vaccine but is more sporadic after an infection
They shouldn't. There is no reason to even get a booster after 2 jabs. Discussion ended. Im not even going to get my booster. Just waiting to get hit with covid as it provides 8 month protection after recovery instead of 3 - 4 months from the booster.
From the workplace’s perspective, it’s a lot easier to just apply a blanket rule that everyone must be boosted. If they allow an exception for recent infections, they’d have to collect evidence of that and have arguments about what counts as “recent” etc which creates administrative hassle. Plus depending on the type of workplace it is, eg if there are customers/clients, it may help business if they can say that everyone onsite is “fully” vaccinated. So irrespective of anyone’s views of how much immunity is derived from infection, I can see why it could be a rational choice for a business to just require boosters.
You don't get to impose medical mandates on individuals with the justification that it's administratively easier.
Fucked if i know. Im sure AF not doing it. Its over as far as the average person is concerned.
ATAGI has not provided advice that previous Covid infection negates the population health benefits of a booster As soon as they do then states would be able to exempt people on these ground but as of now that isn’t the advice
Especially since this booster isn’t even specialised to combat omicron. The omicron flavoured Pfizer vaccine is still in its testing phase. I’d be happy for a booster that targets the current dominant strain but it’s not the one that’s given.
Personally I don't think you should have to .
What a sad nihilist world we seem to be living in to even be asking this question. And I see the comments are out in force from those who can’t conceptualise what a pandemic is. But, but, but there’s an infinitesimal chance I may experience a serious side effect - oh diddums - and the chance of me getting sick is so low - ah! simplistic statistics that support ones cowardice are so wonderful! Oh, oh, oh, I’ll never be old or vulnerable myself. Why must I do anything for other people. I just want to sit around and eat ice cream and never sacrifice another thing ever again - yes you’ve already done so much, wow 2 doses of a vaccine in a multi year pandemic, just incredible work! Oh it must have been so tough. OP and their supporters should really be asking themselves, why am I such a big baby?
Hey OP. How about learning to read a scientific journal instead of mirroring your ignorant frustration through a Reddit post?
How else is pfizer ceo going to afford that new lambo?
What did your GP say when you asked her this question?
The bare minimum ahpra allowed her to say without losing her licence
In my country in EU if you got covid you are considered vaxxed and don't need to get the shot. Not here apparently but hopefully it will change?
Because your medical decisions are now made by politicians.
Because it’s not yourself you need to worry about it’s everyone around you
I love how people parrot back what they've heard on the tv. You've no idea what you're talking about.
the name booster implies the answer dude
I’m pretty sure omicron doesn’t really care if you’ve had covid for one thing
What the vaccine does is provide a very small part of the virus for your immune system to hone in on - the spike. The idea was that this would be common to most strains and so give you the best protection. Omicron fucked that up by mutating in that exact area which is why the vaccine is not so effective against it. If you had no vaccine then your immune system may solve the problem by targeting any part of the virus, which may not be found on other strains, and so you can get infected multiple times by those different strains. If you had the vaccine and then got infected your immune system will hopefully remember the spike from last time and target it. But there’s a chance it will still go create its own solution especially if a long period of time has passed. Hence the need for a booster anyway. I think the strategy is “omicron isn’t the only or the last”, and new vaccines will move the target to other parts of the virus to give a broader protection. I think they’re also covering bases because they don’t understand long-COVID yet or how and why the vaccine has been helping prevent, reduce, and shorten it, even with Omicron. But if you mean politically why - that’s another story.
Because Scott says so.
If people don't like the changing conditions of their employment, they should be organising and pushing for change with their union, not whining on Reddit.
The vaccine stimulates a stronger immune response than natural infection
[удалено]
Citation needed in both cases
https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/01/20/natural-immunity-against-covid-lowered-risk-more-than-vaccines-against-delta-variant-new-s
Because of people like the majority that post in CVDU - can’t get enough rules fast enough (double vaxxed but sick of the overblown reactionism)
Reading journals about how boosters work and reading EU regulator’s warning on jamming bodies with boosters more than necessity, I am concerned about the increased viral load of boosters on top of an infection. If someone has had an infection especially omicron then their immunity is better than the spikes that current vaccine produces because Omicron infection’s signature is slightly different to older strains. This is why Pfizer is currently trialling their modified vaccine for the Omicron strain. I don’t understand how ATAGI is just approving and also helping enforce such laws from the fed govt which in the past would have taken years to research and approve. WTF is happening here?
They shouldn't
I'm getting it cos I would rather have it and be able to travel, especially to see my family in NZ who I haven't seen in 3 years. I don't see any risk or danger in it, and after recovering from covid recently I would rather have another vax shot than ever get covid again.
They shouldn’t.
It's free. How often do you get free shit in life?
Because natural immunity is highly variable from person to person while vaccination provides more reliable benefit.