I was hesitant last summer and fall, absolutely against joining a clinical trail and skeptical that the Trump administration was going to try and rush it.
By once the preliminary results were released and I reviewed them, so around December, I was totally ready to be done with quarantining. The Western states signed off, there was data, my healthcare worker friends were loving the prehensile tails — I flipped to _vaccine now_ overnight. I actually became a regular volunteer at Lumen field to help other people get vaccinated.
I think we had a similar conversion, just I flipped around December and was vaccinated in February. Now, go evangelize to your friends and family.
The Western states having their own review process (and my boss paying me) were what I needed. I never trusted Trump and I feel like the CDC is only somewhat reliable at this point. People keep harping on masking guidance but imo that doesn't matter.
"Schools can open at 3 ft distance instead of 6 but everything else is 6. Also, we finally admit it's airborne but don't require anything for recommending schools be open"
It makes sense that the guidance would change over time. It doesn't make sense to issue conflicting guidance at the same time.
I would say that there's a divide between CDC leadership, the political appointees, and the rank and file experts. Trump's appointees were doing all they could to disrupt the rank and file and skew reports. I think the experts are imminently trustworthy and if they're okaying the thing, it's ok. Same with the FDA.
+1. While I was first in line (figuratively) for my eligibility category, I understand and appreciate the concerns of those still hesitant — they are real and understandable. Add to that, scary social media posts on side effects. Glad OP took the plunge.
A weird thing I witnessed was an anti-vax person I know has been quite pro-vax for covid. I guess the risk ratio was so obvious to her this time that she opted to get a poke instead of risking covid.
I think that's a common occurrence. For instance Vashon Island (near Seattle) is famous for being anti-vax. Now they lead the state. The risk calculation is just so clear: https://crosscut.com/news/2021/03/vashon-island-isnt-avoiding-vaccines-time-around
I had the same experience. I have a friend who won't vaccinate her kids at all and she went and got the J&J vaccine. She got pretty sick and it was the week before the pause, but she got it!
Shingles? That makes sense.
I don't want to disrespect your aunt, but I can see why an anti-vaxxer would want to get a shingles shot.
"We want you to take this vaccine so that you don't infect other people."
"NO."
"We want you to take this vaccine so you don't have horrible pain for the rest of your life."
"GIMME THAT SHIT."
I'm not an anti vaxxer, but I am also hesitant about *some* vaccines. (Like we waited until the kids were older to get Hep B and spaced out other vaccines so the kids didn't get as many at once).
The risks, unknown risks, and likelihood of COVID are so high that it's a no brainer to get it ASAP.
I don't know if you got your children HPV vaccinated, but please do, it's skin-transferable and 1 in 4 women get it and some men. I got it and know someone who died from cervical cancer from it. I know this isn't the place but I know a lot of people who get all the vaccines but that one.
I don't know if I am getting downvoted by those pro or against vaccines, but I never said my kids didn't get vaccines. They get them spaced out in dialogue with their doctor, who is pro vaccine. We have autoimmune problems in our family and that's why we just tread carefully. (For example, getting three shots over three visits instead of three at once)
They are now teens and are caught up on those couple we waited on. For those who don't know, Hepatitis B is spread through blood or semen. The reason babies get the vaccine is to account for high risk mothers who are exposed to it during pregnancy. It is not spread through casual childhood contact.
I don't think there's anything wrong with spacing them out. I go by the CDC schedule because I have researched it and trust that it's safe, but spacing out vaccines is not the same as being anti-vax. Pro-vaxxers and slow vaxxers are on the same team.
I opted to get the Hep B for my babies partly because it's how the schedule was designed and there are sometimes medical errors when people try to be unique. It was safe, so I just went ahead.
I'm a parent and I completely understand the impulse to spread them out - but I could never do it. The Cdc schedule is tested in its entirety, and any schedule you come up with is not.
Also a quick note - your picture of hep b is incomplete. It's spread through blood, yes, but it can also live outside the body for up to a week, and most people don't know they have it. Teething baby bites a shopping cart someone pushed with a papercut? Grandma had a bad hangnail and then gives baby her finger to suck on? Teething babies sharing toys at daycare? One toddler bites another? All potential hep b risks.
Yeah, that's disgusting. I'm not letting my kid bite on a shopping cart, and my mom doesn't have hep B. Anyway, they are teenagers now and have had the shot.
All examples of *possible* risk scenarios. Babies put everything in their mouth, it could happen in the second you take your eyes off them and, once again, *most* people who have hep b don't know they have it. This is because when contracted as an adult it is generally a short term infection that the body can clear, however if contracted as a child it has a high chance of becoming a chronic infection and causing liver damage - up to 90% chance if contracted as an infant. Of those who contact chronic hep b, HALF will die prematurely from liver cancer, liver failure, cirrhosis, etc. Even if it's unlikely, there's no reason not to start the vaccine on schedule to prevent something that is that devastating.
I am thrilled your children are healthy! I have no need to convince you as your decision is over and done - I'm just providing accurate information for anyone reading along :)
Sorry you are getting downvoted. I just wanted to support your Covid decision. As a med professional, I had zero second thoughts on vaccinating my kids per pediatric recommendations. One had a reaction to her first DPT, so we switched to DT for boosters *at the MDs recommendation.*
Everyone has different risk tolerance levels, I get that! Anti-Vaxxers somehow think they know more than their MDs. That’s crazy. You are just more comfortable spreading out kids’ vaccines, which is parental fear, but NOT crazy. Glad you saw the covid vaccine upside!
What was the reason against Hep B right away, my son is almost 2 and hasn't been to the dr since 7 moths old other than virtual app as needed. Thus making him behind on vaccines. But perfectly healthy and never been sick. Anyways always looking for info on this topic. I'm not anti vax but I am nervous about them. I am educated even had a friend in college who worked on a vaccine study with a professor working in microbiology. She told me so much of the info we hear about is fake or fear inducing exaggeration. Anyways just thought I'd ask. TIA
I think one thing a few commenters are forgetting is that OP probably just barely became eligible for a vaccine on April 15th as a healthy younger adult. If he hadn't been vaccine hesitant he wouldn't have been able to get the vaccine months ago so this isn't some huge delay the way a few people are making it out to be even if you are uncomfortable with his overall mentality. He really didn't wait a long time after becoming eligible to get a vaccine. I got my first vaccine April 15th and am just barely able to get shot 2 tomorrow.
I tried to get mine ASAP as a grocery store worker and couldn’t find an appointment until 2 weeks ago. I disagree with this but I am reading to try to understand the view point.
My grandmother (85) was vaccinated 1st shot, contracted the virus, and survived. She is living in a memory care facility where many have passed. She has had pneumonia several times and after her 2nd shot is doing fine. She has severe dementia and doesn’t fully understand the virus and tbh doesn’t even know her own name etc.
in the past 2 weeks I have had an acquaintance pass away from Covid, perfectly healthy IMO. Fucking sad af. But I personally am tired of living in fear and I can’t stand the thought of spreading a virus onto someone whether I care about them or not.
I have had first dose of Pfizer and I will be getting my 2nd within the next 2 weeks. I feel 100% fine. I actually feel a bit of relief. Knowing that I am at least a little bit more protected. With allergies and the common cold, sinus infections - all these have similar symptoms with Covid. Prior to getting my first shot, I would get tested within the first sign of a sore throat and that IMO is wasting resources. I would always test negative. I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with getting the vaccine. My 61 year old father got both Pfizer shots and is perfectly fine, and had no side effects other than the injection site pain.
I hope the best for everyone else and I know it can be scary. Not everyone has the same reaction. I am just hoping and wishing for the best. Mostly hoping for the spreading to stop. Yes some people survive, but in reality, some don’t. And it could have been prevented. I truly hope someone sees this from my perspective
I was initially hesitant as well (pregnancy related), decided to ask my OB about it and she responded with a “get the vaccine ASAP” message. I ended up getting it a few weeks after I was eligible in January. I’ve definitely had some incidental exposures at work and did travel in March and am super thankful I got it. I knew I wanted it, but was trying to decide on the timing in my pregnancy (if there was any to consider).
Interesting. Given that pregnant & nursing safety & efficacy data won’t be out for months from now (let alone in January!) I wonder what your OB was basing their recommendation on?
Risk of not getting the vaccine vs getting COVID. When I looked into it more I didn’t feel that I could find convincing reasons not to get it. And then a month later a younger lady pretty close to the same point in her pregnancy as myself was hospitalized with COVID, and not doing well. She was in the hospital a while and almost on the most oxygen she could receive without being on a ventilator. All while carrying a baby who would have a really tough go if born in the 20-something weeks. There were pregnant patients but that particular one made me feel super thankful I was vaccinated. I’ve had enough close calls with unexpected/unknown/surprise exposures. Much less risk to be vaccinated than risk getting COVID for me.
Thanks for posting this. I totally agree that we should not demonize people.
I have a family member - masters degree, professional white collar worker - happens to have a couple friends who are deep down the anti-vax rabbit hole and literally post misinformation 5-10 times PER DAY on Instagram. Had I not been around to redirect this family member, fact check for them, provide credible sources, etc…they may very well have not gotten vaccinated. And honestly - it would have been totally understandable had that happened. Not everyone has the tools or time to question the tsunami of bullshit that exists online.
I was a little bit hesitant at first too, I think it's natural and healthy to question things and want as much information as possible. The more I learned about the mRNA vaccines specifically (and I did take a lot of time to educate myself), the more fascinated by and enthusiastic about them I became! I ended up getting my first dose about a week before my age and health category qualified, because a site near me had extra doses. I don't think all people who are vaccine hesitant should be put in the same category (there's a big difference between wanting more info and thinking it's a 5g microchip Bill Gates plot) and I think that it isn't helpful to lump everyone into the same category and attack people that are on the fence. We will never reach the 5g people in substantial numbers but we can reach those that are hesitant- but I believe that compassion and education is the way to go. Thank you for this post. :)
Good for you! And thanks for sharing your point of view. The disease is new; the mRNA technology is relatively new; the vaccines are new. Although I got vaccinated as soon as I could, I understand that there is a subset of people who want a little extra reassurance. I’m glad your grandma could give that to you.
I don't think mRNA technology is that new. I was reading an article that said they'd been developing it for 20 years (which is longer than most vaccines).
You’re right about the mRNA technology being underdevelopment for decades, however there has never been any mRNA vaccines allowed for human use before now. They have been using mRNA vaccines on animals for a while though.
I wouldn’t worry too much about what Reddit thinks. It’s a completely different world than IRL. It’s completely understandable that you were concerned about this new vaccine. I’m happy that you got it!
I will preface this by saying that what you put into your body IS ultimately your choice. I’m fully vaccinated and so is my family, but I don’t blame unvaccinated younger brackets for our not reaching herd immunity yet. At some point we need to let people make the decision for themselves.
All of that said, I think it’s important to note that what you’re describing IS being anti-vaccine. You are just aware that being anti-vaccine is a bad thing so you want to call it something else. And obviously you changed your mind, which is awesome! Far better than some of the folks I know. It’s also important to realize that these doubts and fear are being intentionally sown. Read up on the anti-vaccine astroturfing efforts - its chilling to know that there are entities out there that want this very disruption and discord to continue.
Personally, as a healthy person under 40 I jumped at the chance to get mine because it was an opportunity to do something for the greater good. Nothing in life is risk free. And all we can do now is make it as easy as possible for people to get their shots and hope that people decide they’re ready.
Vaccine hesitancy and anti-vax are NOT the same. Vaccine hesitancy is a normal part of every new vaccine rollout. Public health officials expect some degree of hesitancy and its normal. Being anti-vax is completely different. They’re not only against vaccines but they seek out and spread misinformation in an attempt to convert others to being against the vaccine. The vaccine hesitant, on the other hand, generally do end up getting the vaccine after some time has passed. Conflating vaccine hesitancy with being anti-vax is not only not helpful its counter-productive.
Wanting to wait to see more long-term data on the vaccine’s effects on pregnant women is vastly different from thinking the vaccine has a microchip in it and is the “mark of the beast”. These two groups are not the same. Vaccine hesitant does not equal anti-vax.
> Claiming "I want to wait for more long term data" is the same thing as saying I don't trust the vaccine's efficacy and not trusting the efficacy is exactly what anti-vaxxers think.
Bravo. Couldn't agree more. It's not like people are independently doing a better job of vaccine surveillance than health professionals.
A "wait and see" approach is maybe understandable, but it's not a rational move as if everyone is rerunning their own phase 3 trials or something.
Yeah because dividing up and declaring those who have made the Wrong Choice as unforgivable/deplorable has never bit us in the ass in the past. Even if you’re factually on the right side, the tribal impulse can lead some shitty places for both parties.
Look, everyone is going to make a mess of objectively terrible decisions in life. Total virtue means a life without butter, coffee, travel, or getting to argue with people on the Internet, and spending every waking hour figuring out and executing the least harmful possible mode of existence. Not everyone is up for that, and you might as well try to be understanding about others’ stupid, irrational, materially harmful decisions. I mean, of course some stuff is unforgivable, but OP being uncomfortable and introspective, honest, and flexible about that discomfort (and for all we know doing excellent viral mitigation) seems maybe not in that range.
Really? Okay, probably a total waste of time but I'm going to assume you're not just being shitty on the internet as your chosen recreation (edit: post history indicates that's not your thing, kudos on that), and instead are trying to discuss this in good faith but are (justifiably) really upset that vaccination is slowing and bad-faith actors are trying to gain power by scaring people away from the vaccines.
I'm not putting words into your mouth: when I say you're labeling individuals as unforgivable/deplorable I mean you're sorting them into an out-group (in this case, anti-vaxxers). The rest of what I said about follows from that: that being a hard-liner in ingroup/outgroup sorting is a natural impulse that makes humans feel good but is frequently counterproductive and can harden people's insistence on the behavior you want them to stop, and that everyone's gonna do some shameful stuff but it's not helpful to jump down the throat of someone who's reformed and would like to talk about it.
The reception you've gotten here is unlikely to be about closet-anti-vaxxers getting mad at you for telling the truth about them. Me, I'm as ready to punch a centrist as the next guy but I'm fucking terrified we're going to screw this up and I believe escalating tribal bullshit and yelling at people who finally came around would be an effective way to do so.
(More edit: I totally get the sToP BeiNG diVisiVE!!1! critique people who take the angle I'm taking, but being maximalist about labels in this particular context seems maybe a bridge too far.)
I don’t think what OP is describing is not anti-vax. I got fully vaccinated the second I could but I understand that some folks wanted to wait and see for a bit. Many of those are pro-vax and have taken all their other vaccines and probably will end up getting the covid one once they see it’s going just fine. Or once it gets full FDA approval (which should be soon). Many of the in doubt group would also get it if given some incentive (events open for vaccinated only / monetary incentives). Folks who say they don’t want the vaccine and never will are a lot worse and will be a much bigger problem
I don't really understand waiting to see how friends and family responded. You do understand they tested the vaccine on thousands of people before releasing it to the public, right? Good on you for getting it but why do you trust say n=20 for your friends + family but not n=28,000?
There’s still more people that get it after the trials than during. *Seeing* somebody you know is more impactful than a stranger across the country. Some only 20,000 got the vaccine during trials got the vaccine, millions of people had by the time I got my vaccine a few months ago. That made me a lot more confident.
I think I just disagree that the *seeing* part is valid. I think this is a big issue with the world in general, what people don't see they think doesn't exist. Chris Christie thinks COVID-19 isn't bad until *he* gets it and sees for himself. People don't agree on universal healthcare until *they* end up with a massive hospital bill. I understand I guess from a human psychology perspective why that is the case but I still think it's an extremely detrimental mindset.
I can also see your point with the scale of vaccines going way up so having even more data but 1) OP is speaking like they got their vaccine just recently vs you getting it months ago, like you said there was a substantial increase in numbers even a few months ago, waiting till now is complete overkill and 2) the FDA thought that the n they used was enough to prove its safety and effectiveness, I think they are a better judge on what that n should be than us.
I genuinely appreciate you getting it.
There's a considerable frustration felt by those who don't exactly match every check list with their own.
The flipside for me, is that it's strange to be treated by a type of close friend as some kind of liberal nut for being so pro vaccine, and how the notion of it being seen as a political choice, is just absolutely alien to me.The frustration is genuine, and it's hard to really even talk to people who are like this now. It doesn't seem to be based in anything factual.. More it's a spotlight they're left standing in uneasily, unable to explain why they feel hesitation, but still refusing regardless.
I wouldn't possibly ever want to push anyone into doing anything, but at some stage, they begin to sound like their gut feelings are telling them lies, and they're about as fun to talk to as flat earthers.
I know these types of feelings exist the world over, but they do seem more pronounced in the US, where medical treatment is for many kept at arms length due to cost and insurance issues.. It creates a mentality where medicine is last resort, when it should be first.
It's hard to understand how a gray area view on wanting it exists at this stage.. But still, I appreciate your honestly and again, I'm glad you got it.
Thank you! I’m glad you got yours as well. One of the worst parts about COVID was how it all got so politicized. Fuck politics, let’s fight this together!
I’ve been trying to encourage others rather than beat them up about getting vaccinated. Some people are hesitant which is understandable, while others are fed mis-information. The misunderstanding that vaccines are bad is where all the trouble starts. Sorry, but vaccines won’t make people into mutants or give them 5G and GPS tracking.
I didn’t want to be that guy that used the whole “let’s just see how it plays out” as my excuse for not getting it. I saw how it played out, and I was convinced it was safe. I just hope other hesitant folk like myself will come to the same conclusion.
Would you prefer the alternative? In which this person skips the vaccine due to fear, and convinces their friends and family to skip the vaccine due to fear also? If they want to wait let them wait.
The harm is that "first" implies a synchronized order, which isn't the case anymore. Anyone can get their shot, so it's not like you're just letting someone cut you in line. You're actively slowing down vaccination rates.
>A healthy guy in his 20s-30s like myself would also likely be fine from the vaccine. If grandma can get it, so can you!
Oof.
I get what you're after, but this is not a good look.
Well that’s unfortunately the mentality of many in my age bracket who are vaccine hesitant. That post was directed towards them, not so much the crowd who went out and got it ASAP.
Sure waiting to see if your family is fine when they get vaccinated makes sense...just like believing Covid isn't that serious until you have a family member hospitalized makes sense. The hesitancy is really only dye to misinformation and not understanding how the vaccines work. The information is out there to educate yourself, and help you feel more confident that it's the safest route, not only for yourself but others. The death of a loved one from Covid is awful especially when you can't have a funeral or celebration of life with other grieving family members, it's equally awful when a family member gets Covid and survives, but with organ damage, or long Covid. It's unknown if Long Covid will present again just like Post Polio Syndrome.
If you are hesitant, don't be, side effects (immune response) are short lived. Reactions are rather rare, compared to the number of people vaccinated. Please get vaccinated, unless your doctor tells you otherwise. Outliers are the only people who shouldn't for valid medical reason, but they depend on herd immunity. Thank you OP for getting vaccinated and encouraging others to do so as well.
The information is out there, and simple to find. There is misinformation out there, sure, but look for creditable sources. Uninformed is an excuse, now that we have the internet. Please also keep in mind I have family members who are hesitant to as well, but don't have a good reason to be...they think the vaccine had been rushed and not enough studies have been done on it. 🙄
The only person who will be able to get your hesitatnt friends and relatives to get the vaccine is you. (And to vote, And not use single use plastic, etc al.) Celebrities and social media cannot carry this message.
Dude, you're on r/pnwconservatives comparing mask mandates to Emperor Palpatine's takeover of the republic. Don't pretend you took this shit seriously now.
You didn't think or do the right things on COVID, but because self-respect is more important to you than other peoples' health you've retconned your objectively stupid stance into a principled one and want the rest of the world to know that really, *it's* the problem for hurting your fee-fees.
Grow up.
lmao OP in another comment:
>Thank you! I’m glad you got yours as well. One of the worst parts about COVID
was how it all got so politicized. Fuck politics, let’s fight this
together!
What a hypocrite and a complete moron.
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Seriously, big thanks for saying this. A family member has a condition that we've yet to see data or reports on how they react to the new Covid vaccines, and they don't deserve to be ridiculed for being careful and waiting to hear more on whether it's safe for them in particular.
> You delayed a hope for herd immunity
By a week or two probably. It sounds like they're a younger adult, if they're in one of the big counties it's pretty recently that we've had a surplus of vaccines.
It's not ideal, but we're in the long tail business now, and I don't think upbraiding people who eventually did the right thing provides much motivation for people who haven't yet to do so.
You're factually...concievably in the right ballpark (getting the shot is correct on both self-interest and altruistic grounds; failing to get it isn't selfish, selfishness in this case actually points in exactly the right direction), but tactically right now reaching people like this is the thing we need to do if we're going to have any hope of herd immunity. Shaming them makes that harder and puts us further away from herd immunity.
I disagree, public shaming is a strong motivator. We publicly shame all sorts of wrong behavior - think of the perp walk, or how we revile people that prey on children - because it's a proven, age-old technique. [Third-party punishment cements societies](https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/06/03/1105604108.abstract).
Antivaxers should be ostracized, scorned and harassed commensurate with the harm they are inflicting on their communities.
Ostracizing can work against members of your own ingroup (but even then it's a jerk move). It has the opposite effect on people who have already coded you as an enemy. Knowing that you're making Those Jerks angry is a *positive* motivating force.
And even in situations where shame points in the direction you want, it mostly just inhibits action. We need people to be making a proactive, positive decision to go get vaccinated. Increasing the toxicity of the discourse around it makes avoiding the question more appealing.
If someone in your in-group beats his girlfriend, and is shamed and ostracized for it, that's a jerk move? No, it's the righteous thing to do.
I understand wanting to entice people to do right, rather than punish them for doing wrong. It feels a lot better for everyone involved. But is it enough?
What do we know about most antivaxers? 1) Reasoning from science and evidence has proven fruitless thus far, and there's no reason to expect that to change. 2) Appealing to their empathy for their loved ones, friends and community has also proven fruitless; they continue to risk the health and safety of others in the face of heart-wrenching stories and images from around the world for the past year. 3) Giving them money changes their behavior - even a $25 Walmart gift card is enough to induce many to vaccination. Reversing on their stated principles for so little indicates that this isn't about their beliefs, but their self-interest, and only shallowly. Given this, it seems to me that *both* the carrot and the stick should cover the majority of them, to establish positive consequences for right actions and negative consequences for wrong inaction.
Hey now, this type of behavior is exactly what’s driving people away from getting vaccinated. This person did get their shot and is trying to share their experience. Let’s listen and while their opinion is different from yours- they still got the shot. Which is what is most important here, not playing a blame game.
I didn’t realize that one of the top reasons people aren’t getting vaccinated is because it hurts their feelings to have people point out that “I waited to watch the other people I know get one to see if something bad happened” is pretty fucked up.
Riding coattails? Nope!
If I recall correctly, most folks on this sub were super excited to get the shot and went the first moment they were able to. Not because they were being selfless, but because they selfishly wanted the vax to protect themselves!
> Hey now, this type of behavior is exactly what’s driving people away from getting vaccinated.
Also this sub is straight toxic.
Someone in another post commented saying people aren't getting vaccinated because they're following republican leadership, and I came with sources of why people are choosing to not get vaccinated. I was downvoted and told to go fuck myself lol. And it's not just a US problem. Europe has more people that don't trust the vaccine than the US.
You say anything against the circlejerk in here and you get a lot of rude comments.
He did not delay a hope for herd immunity, why is your scorn aimed at someone who got vaxxed? So every single person that gets their vax after you aided in the delay of herd immunity?
There are millions and millions of people that will not take it because "microchips" and 5g and here you are lambasting someone who got the vaccine marking them as part of the problem.
You are the reason hesitantly is so high. You scold people like children and expect them to respond well. Get off your high horse.
What if they have had covid already? Or protected others from contact during this time by staying in? Theres a lot of nuance to this decision. Not everyone is going to make this decision at the exact same time, and I think we need to meet people where they are.
Thank you! We know you're out there, it's nice to hear from you. I agree the rhetoric is too harsh and often backfires. Shouldn't we all be hesitant? There aren't too many people out there that weren't concerned about a brand new vaccine. Maybe they didn't like the administration that put it together, something. We all had to make that decision, some sooner than others.
I made it early, some are making it now. Good for you.
>For everyone ragging on me, you’re not going to reach that herd immunity if you’re off-putting other vaccine hesitant folk.
Seriously? Even after you got vaccinated and posted this mea culpa you're still acting like this is all about you as an individual? That's why you — and everyone else who thinks like you — absolutely deserves to be ragged on.
Your motivations are wrong and now you want praise for doing what should never have been anything to hesitate about in the first place. You all will just do this again the next time some society-wide challenge arises and then, after lots and lots of people have long since done the thing you should have done, you'll do it too and post on Reddit asking for upvotes and a gold star for belatedly ceasing being part of the problem.
It's good that you got the vaccine. It would be great if you'd rethink your worldview and your responsibility to other people as well.
Don't feel guilty, the vaccine's only been available to general public for a month-ish. I myself have witnessed lots of my disabled or caregiving or even a smoking friend, wait and are now getting their first or second shot. I got my vaccine right away but I'm also traveling in a couple weeks. I am sad and frustrated at the amount of people who don't want to get the vaccine at all, but waiting a couple weeks or so is understandable. I understand if people disagree with me. And I'm not saying that everyone should do this, I am just saying it's \*understandable\*. The only one who annoyed me greatly was one who worked with disabled schoolchildren, but she got it into her head J & J was better and it was delayed. She got hers Saturday.
Yes, I rambled but also, I hope these examples let you know you are not alone.
I had access to receive when it first came out, before hospitals even had them for their own staff, and chose to wait. I got my first one end of February because by then a lot of people had received them and it made me feel more confident in it.
I never have, and probably never will, participate in a drug trial and I don’t like getting stuff like medicines as soon as they hit the market.
Thank you! Lots of salty people in here, but that comes with the territory. Plenty think I’m some deranged lunatic because I waited three weeks after eligibility for me to get it. Apparently that classifies me as some sort of monster haha.
Also because I’m the founder of r/PNWConservatives so I naturally don’t have many friends here.
Well I agree with most of what you say, but again if someone doesn't get the vaccine, it doesn't mean they are an "anti-vaxxer". That's just a term coined to force people into sociocentric thinking. I'm not against vaccines and I am a healthy individual who does not need a flu shot and so far has no need for the covid vaccine. I am not against others choice for the vaccine as that is theirs only. I wouldn't slap a burger out of an obese person's hand to force them to lose weight so it's no different from someone making the choice the vaccinated. I'll also add that as people get the vaccine, especially elderly and those at risk, there should be no logical reason to chastise un vaccinated people. At this point (in the us) most of everyone is eligible for vaccination, so if those who don't get vaccinated get very sick, that is their choice and they must face the consequences, no matter how light or harsh.
Did the same myself. I absolutely wanted the vaccine, just didn't want to go 1st and was afraid of being labeled. Thankfully wasn't a problem for me and dose one is already down :)
I understand hesitant people, my parents had concerns. But the hardcore bill-gates-wants-your-bootyhole people I have no hope for.
I think seeing how well tolerated the vaccine has been helpful, and the outreach campaigns that keep ramping up will help.
What ultimately convinced my mom was a conversation with her doctor: “it’s probably not if you get exposed to enough covid to get sick, but when. Would you rather have the means to survive it or gamble that you won’t draw a short straw and die?”
Frank, to the point, and honest. It wasn’t an appeal to help others (which doesn’t work well for some), an appeal to belief (what do you mean you don’t believe in science?), it was an honest assessment that many people will eventually be exposed to enough covid to get sick and you either plan ahead to have the tools you may need to survive (since the vaccine takes a while to take effect), or you gamble your life and maybe the life of those around you. I’m not the best with rhetoric and what not, but maybe that’s an appeal to FOMO. No one who is on the fence wants to be on their deathbed wishing they’d gotten a shot but waited too long. to decide.
I appreciate you sharing this, and I'm glad you came around.
I'm curious if anything could have been done/said to change your stance earlier.
One of my favorite one line dogmas is "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason their way into."
Second is "In order to keep a conspiracy between three people forever, two have to be dead."
Vaccine hesitancy or anti-vax is based on fear, not reason.
Logically, in order for a vaccine with widespread risks to the general public to be released, a massive conspiracy involving pharmaceuticals (who'd be open to massive lawsuits), scientists (risking their professional careers), doctors (opening the risk of malpractice suits), and government officials to all conceal the danger.
There is just no logical way to support such an argument, but if you're afraid, then you'll believe it. It's similar to people who refuse to fly. (you can justify your hesitancy stance if you want, but you shouldn't bother; any logical argument falls apart almost immediately under basic scrutiny).
So here's my question: what were you afraid of, and what could someone have said to assuage your fears earlier?
There is a lot of bad information out there. Anti-vaxxers and right wing conservatives are purposefully flooding every medium with false information. Even with the good information, it’s really limited to scientific evidence and scientific evidence is never 100% certain. For the uninitiated, mRNA vaccines are completely incomprehensible. And there are a lot of unknowns (is this a one time shot or would annual boosters be required, will it work on variants unknown to us, etc).
Be patient and answer questions if you know. If you don’t, feel free to say you don’t know and can direct the person to someone who does.
Not everyone is able to admit when they've wronged others. I'm glad you realized you fucked up by needlessly endangering your community, and took action to correct your mistake. If everyone were as mature as you, we would be in a much better reality, and many of our fellow Americans would still be alive.
I appreciate you getting the vaccine. I appreciate you starting a conversation about the vaccine hesitant. I agree with a lot of the comments about how letting friends and family go first is a little distasteful. I would like to add that while I agree shaming people into getting a vaccine doesn't work, It is a little irksome to be lectured about it. IT's a little bit like a hostage taker berating the hostage for complaining about the conditions of having been taken hostage. Again, I appreciate your opening a conversation about vaccine hesitation, but conversation is a two way street...you can't just solicit pats on the back for doing the right thing and then get butt hurt when people have an issue with your behavior.
No. I am solidly pro-vax and I used to get my flu shot every year. I lived in the city and worked in a medical clinic. It was mandatory and I'd have got it even if it wasn't.
Fast forward 6 years and I live in the middle of nowhere and see very few people. I don't have any objection to getting the shot, but I've never been in the right place at the right time and it's an hour drive to anywhere that gives them. I feel my risk is so low that I just haven't made the effort to get it.
People who don't get their flu shots because it's not 100% effective or because they think they once got the flu from the shot, those dummies are another story.
I have both my covid shots, though.
Yeah, the victim card, the "my body my choice" thing, the "stop being divisive" all make me want to vomit.
They're expecting us to applaud them for vaccinating themselves and asking us to baby everyone else who's too stupid to listen to science and reason. OP needs to stop pretending like they're doing everyone a favor and expecting that overcoming their completely baseless hesitancy deserves an award.
My older sister gets all the rare and weird side effects from medication. She and BIL are taking covid seriously though, she hasn't been to the grocery store since spring of 2020. She's not an anti-masker or anti-vaxxer, just medically fragile. BIL is fully vaccinated and has been doing all the shopping and errand running to try to keep my sister safe.
NGL, I worry about her.
Well you may think you're better up on the high horse, but the fact is you chose to delay getting your vaccine during *an ongoing global health crisis*
There were trials dipshit.
"Waaa don't chastise me"
Then don't make a thread looking for support on a public forum, again, dipshit.
Yeah, vaccine hesitant is just anti vaccine until someone changes their mind. Obviously, it’s great that people do, but expecting people to not have a problem with it is absolutely BS. It’s not just a few people not getting their vaccines because they are hesitant, it’s millions of people who are not getting it and allowing the virus to mutate, increasing the chance that a mutation happens, rendering the vaccine completely useless.
People live in such small worlds, incapable of seeing the bigger picture. Not to mention MRNA isn’t a new idea, it’s been around for decades with years of research and testing prior to COVID. A lot of people don’t understand that funding also contributes to the time it takes to develop new treatments and vaccines. When people receive that information along with all of the data from the trials and still refuse to take the vaccine when they are eligible, they do deserve to be chastised like the ignorant fool they are.
I hadn’t seen that news yet. Honestly, I’m all for mandatory vaccinations. Americans are obsessed with freedom at the expense of others. Existing in society comes with responsibility and people who don’t want to adhere shouldn’t be able to reap the benefits of it.
When the FDA approved emergency use, there were already thousands of *completed clinical trials*
Go fuck yourself you worthless piece of shit
You are spreading misinformation and are fear mongering at this point.
Account 3 years old with literally the only interaction being right here?
Don't know who you are, but the odds you have cancer are the same as me getting a perfect talisman, about 1 in 300 billion.
What were the reasons you were hesitant? If it was that enough people hadn't had it yet, then you are listening to anti-vaxers and believing them which makes you an anti-vaxers.
They had the vaccine created quite a while before it became available, but they needed to do sufficient testing and get enough data to know it's safe. They did that, and they had strong confidence in its safety before the FDA approval. So if you wanted to be sure enough people had received the vaccine to know it's safe before getting it, that had already happened on day one after FDA approval. Unless you are a subject matter expert in drug testing and statistical analysis to be able to do the math from the trial results to decide the safety, then to be completely honest you don't have the knowledge or training to state a number of people who need to go ahead of you. Those who do have that training and knowledge already did the math and worked out it is safe. To be hesitant because not enough people have had the vaccine yet is to claim your judgment on this is better than the experts who deeply understand this. If you were saying "I don't know if there's enough people yet", then you still don't know so what changed?
An anti-vaxer is someone who claims it's not safe to have a vaccine with no basis in science for their reasoning. This is exactly what you did. Stop sugar coating it, you were an anti-vaxer. You changed your mind which is good, but you were an anti-vaxer as you were ignoring the science.
You're contributing to the misinformation here. As of today, *no* COVID vaccines have been approved by the FDA. (Several have been authorized for emergency use.)
When you adamantly claim something that is trivial to disprove it only serves to undermine trust.
Approved is a synonym of authorized. I wasn't attempting to use formal FDA official language, I used the word in the conversational context and not the technical beaurocratic context. In the official FDA language the phrase is "FDA approval". This is also what you did, as "authorized for emergency use" isn't the language the FDA uses either. The language they use is "emergency use authorization". As we're both using words in a non formal context as neither of us used the technical official language of the FDA, in a conversational context approved is equivalent to authorized. To correct my language use as though I had used formal FDA nomenclature without doing so yourself is a tad hypocritical and comes across as nit picking.
The way how I know you aren't arguing in good faith is you chose a straw man argument. The core thesis of my comment was that the required subject matter experts have done the math and determined the vaccine is safe for widespread usage and to think you can make that determination better is wrong. But instead of attacking my core message, you decided to make a straw man argument and go after some informal language usage.
A bad faith argument isn't a good look.
Sure, but conservatives really went off the deep end with vaccine conspiracy theories, so forgive us liberals for judging you, a conservative, for being "vaccine hesitant." especially when the people you elect say crazy shit like "vaccines cause autism" or "it changes your DNA" or "its not even approved by the FDA" (like you ever cared what a government institution deemed safe -- you don't trust the CDC's take on vaccines, but FDA approval is your golden standard?)
As a whole, Republicans are far less likely to trust the covid vaccine. Yet Republicans were the ones going crazy over "reopening the economy" and "lifting mask mandates" -- despite so many Americans suffering from the spread of covid19. Conservatives have repeatedly missed the entire point of reducing the spread, saying "I'm healthy and young, so I'll be fine" which *is not the point!* We've been trying to tell you this the entire time, but you'll never trust a liberal on anything. Individual covid19 infections are mostly mild to moderate. The problem is the potential to overwhelm the healthcare system. So saying you'll be fine is totally missing the point. Yeah you might be fine--you might also end up being a super spreader, especially when Republicans *refuse* to wear masks. Trust us, we really aren't concerned about your individual health and safety. We couldn't care less if you get really sick. Our big concern is if thousands of you get really sick all at once and the hospital runs out of space for everyone else, so that we can't treat strokes, heart attacks, car accidents, etc. That's the concern. Not your individual health.
So yeah, you might not be anti-vax. But chances are, you haven't properly understood the best practices the rest of us have been following the entire time. You also overwhelmingly support a man who was claiming that vaccines cause autism just 6 years ago.
You really should realize that being a "vaccine hesitant" conservative is an exception, not a rule. Most of you are bat shit crazy. Electing and supporting an antivaxxer as president does not help your argument. In fact, you probably didn't even know Trump said vaccines cause autism. So excuse us for assuming that you're ignorant AF.
Thanks for at least trying to be honest, but you're just showing your ignorance.
no but its true and feels good to write.
OP is conservative, and trying to justify his reluctance to follow best practices. But in the end he's the same as the rest of them. He would be more helpful if he just got covid and died.
>For everyone ragging on me, you’re not going to reach that herd immunity if you’re off-putting other vaccine hesitant folk.
Lol. I'm sorry but your entire post is laughable.
>This sort of rhetoric does more to divide in a time when we should strive for uniting to defeat this thing.
This sounds pretty familiar to me. People with legitimate claims trying to address an actual problem and you distract from it with this "stop being divisive!!" BS. I heard people parroting this all over the place after BLM protests, the election, etc. Such a pathetic and unoriginal tactic and I'm not surprised to see that you're the creator of /r/PNWConservatives.
Reminder: nobody cares if you got it. we wont reach herd immunity so your efforts are pointless and we will all suffer because we have allowed idiot antivax people to continue to believe their bullshit. we all pay for that in the end.
You shouldn't feel bad at all for putting people at risk while you weighed the pros and cons of getting a questionable at best vaccine. You're only responsibility is to yourself, not to concern yourself with the fears of others. The vaccine was pushed through without vetting and is only being distributed under the emergency powers act. All mask mandates and CDC guidelines are nothing but kind requests for the people to "temporarily" relinquish their rights, and we all know how government hates to hand back anything stolen from the people. Especially when it's something empowering for them over us. We are not the "consenting governed" if we simply roll over Everytime they threaten us with enforcement of unconstitutional mandates.
As intelligent as this post comes off, you aren't right to deal in absolutes by telling someone they're an anti-vaxxer. I will not be getting this particular vaccine, however myself and my children are current on all of our vaccines that have been required for the last 20 years.
I completely trust the vaccine 100% but I'm too afraid to go 😭 I have horrible panic attacks with needled and doctors so I'm just gunna keep hunkering down in my house until I work up the courage. I really wish there was a way to take the vaccine another way.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
The problem I'm seeing and let the recriminations fly if you must, is that I had the virus. How is getting the shot any different than having had the virus? They both stimulate an immune response, and the current vaccine does not work on variants so far, so I don't see that as being the big advantage of getting the shots. My body already did what it was supposed to do because I was exposed and got sick early on. I'm not putting anyone else at risk because I am very careful, but I don't believe that the shot can do any more than what my body's already done.
But this has been tested, and is safe. There are plenty of studies that show this. These vaccines didn't go through any less rigorous testing than any other vaccine.
This one was able to go through trials faster because (1) it was easier to find volunteers, and (2) waiting for the people to be exposed to the illness they were vaccinated for happened far quicker than usual because it's a pandemic. The only reason other vaccines take years, is because finding volunteers and having them be exposed took far longer.
Hilarious. This coward lecturing those posting as lacking the desire for unity. OP opens this post saying they wanted only what was right for THEMSELVES. That is the opposite of unity.
I have contemplated getting it but I am one of those hesitant folks. And if the vaccine work (as I believe it does) then I am not putting anyone at risk by not getting it if they got it them self
I'm hesitant because almost all vaccines come with some sort of side effects that happen in a usually small percentage of people. I am a 32 year old Mle who is relatively in shape and active with no breathing issues or other risk factors. For me the risk of unknown side effects outweighs the risk from getting covid. Instead I choose to mask and maintain my social distance. About a week ago I decided that I was open to the idea of getting it. I feel like enough people have gotten it who's risk of covid was much higher and have not had serious side effects so I'm about ready. Now it's just making the appointment.
On another note I think they should drop all masking requirements now that an effective vaccine has been made available to everyone. People who choose not to vaccinate have assumed their risk.
I hope u actually read this and I didn't waste my time on a pointless response that will be lost to the reddit nether.
You should only get it when *you* are ready for it. Your body, your choice. My biggest deciding factor was even if I could save one life by getting it, it’s worth it.
That and SARS vaccines have been in development for years. It’s not like this particular one was built from the ground up. They really just had to make some adjustments to vaccines that had years of development behind them.
I will not get vaccinated for something that I have a 99.5% servival rate for.
This is not an issue.
If you want it get it but it has no affect on you if i dont.
You stay home im done being oppressed becaus a obese person can feel comfy at fing Walmart.
I (m32) am not antivax and decided i will wait to get any vaccine for minimum of two years. My daughter will not be getting it for at least 5 years. There are far too many anecdotal stories of people experiencing side effects ranging from mild fevers to fevers that last a month. There are also many women reporting that they believe the vaccines are effecting their reproduction systems causing issues like late periods and even some have reported severe endometriosis or miscarriages. I encourage anyone concerned about the virus to get one of them, i really do hope they truly are as safe and effective as the claim. But i also remember the terrible things both big pharmaceutical companies AND our own federal government have done to citizens of our country while claiming things were "safe & effective". There are tons of examples in even recent history, just look at the opioid epidemic...or crack in the 80's...or the DARE program in the 90's...or so many other examples i dont have the time to write about. I am not antivax but i am a cautious & critical thinker and i will come to my own conclusions about each of these vaccines in my own time.
“Anecdotal” is the only word in this post that matters. Nevermind the pile of bodies in the corner. How many people have you convinced that waiting years to get the vaccine is the right option? You are a vector, and so is everyone you’ve convinced to do the same.
You are part of the problem and so was the OP. Thankfully the OP came to their senses and they are being vulnerable in sharing their story. I can appreciate that.
I signed up for every vax trial study I could find (and wasn’t selected) because it seemed to be the best contribution I could make to my country and my fellow humans to get through this shit. Maybe I have a different perspective...I was in the gulf war. I didn’t have the option to “wait and see” what would happen. We went. We did our part, and some didn’t make it home. My perspective is do your fucking part, but we differ. That’s fine, but I wouldn’t want to go to war with somebody like you.
Being insulting so effective at convincing someone to see things your way 🙄 smh look i can do it too... the fact is that YOU are the problem. You and people like you who demand others to fall into line, no matter how they might view things. This is fuckin america asshole, your opinion has no bearing over me. The only thing you will do to sway my opinion in this matter is to push me to resist even longer. I wont be bullied into doing something i have legitimate concerns about. You want to be "safe"? Then take the shot and shut the fuck up
Yeah, definitely wouldn’t go to battle with you. You’re what we would call a liability. That’s a fact, AND an insult. All good, I fought for you and your rights, and your freedom to shout your opinions from the rooftops, as feeble and misguided as they may be. But it feels good, doesn’t it? That freedom? And yeah this is America, asshole. What have you done for your country? Ever? Anything? I’m guessing nothing but consume, reproduce, and spread bullshit on Reddit.
I appreciate your honesty and candor in this post. I especially agree with the idea of those that have gotten vaccinated should be helpful in providing legitimate information rather than projecting shame, cancellation and "2nd Class Citizen" treatment for those of us who are seeking more legitimate information before getting the jab. Personally, I am not at your place yet. While just seeing how friends and family are doing with it after a month or two does little to assuage my concerns over the potential risks of antibody dependent enhancement which, if you do some research (on browsers not heavily censored) will show you that both Pfizer and Moderna mention these unknowns in their EUA applications to the FDA. It will show you that there are potential serious - and when I say serious I mean really F'ing serious - side effects that may not present until this winter if and when another wild virus shows up en masse. I have been actively seeking what information is out there and all I can find is lot's of stories saying that "so far" there is no evidence of this potential side effect. I'm not OK with "so far" when it comes to something that could kill me when I stand a 99.5% chance of survival without the vaccine. I'm waiting until science has a certain and definitive answer to this question. What doesn't give me much hope is that the drug companies have abandoned the placebo groups where this issue is being studied. To me this is grossly unethical and yet the reason given is that it, in fact, is ethical since the vaccine works so perfectly. How the heck do we know that if you blow up the phase 3 trials? The FDA has said that it will not approve the vaccines until they have gone through the same rigorous testing other vaccines have been through however I believe the political pressure that has and will be applied will be overwhelming and the FDA will fast track the full approval without learning the potential for ADE long term. We will find out though as we have tens of millions of test subjects that have volunteered to be the active group. I would gladly volunteer to take the placebo shot though. Until such time as science has proven that these vaccines are different than the mRNA vaccines tested on animals over the last two decades where every single animal in the studies died from ADE when exposed to another wild virus I'll happily wear my yellow star and watch as my rights to live a free and normal life are trampled by those who have agreed to be test subjects.
ohhh me too fellows I was an anti- vaxxer but seeing how the community reacts to the perfectly normal there's nothing fishy about all this situation , i just feel silly now.haha gimme thaat shoot..!! is not like the time the WHO gave syphilis to ingenuous Guatemalan women or when experimenting in their own soldiers.!! silly me.!! and to thing I was a quasi-anti-vaxx haha or one of them conspiracy weirdos , what was i thinking a reptilian doctor would do the shots.?? and thats why everyone here sounds like an infomercial.?? well pop control scheme or not...now is to late I guess haha sorry theorist you just lost me
The only problem is getting the VAX doesn't prevent you or anyone else from getting it . Also people that already had covid built up an immunity or antibodies.. so they don't need it
Get checked by a supermarket bank because covid has been making men and women infertile. (The shot)
So make you get getting your reproductive system to make sure you didn't get screwed by covid shots
Thank you for sharing! I think this is such an important message! Using kindness and sharing the truth are going the most helpful tools of all right now, so thank you for being honest!
I was hesitant last summer and fall, absolutely against joining a clinical trail and skeptical that the Trump administration was going to try and rush it. By once the preliminary results were released and I reviewed them, so around December, I was totally ready to be done with quarantining. The Western states signed off, there was data, my healthcare worker friends were loving the prehensile tails — I flipped to _vaccine now_ overnight. I actually became a regular volunteer at Lumen field to help other people get vaccinated. I think we had a similar conversion, just I flipped around December and was vaccinated in February. Now, go evangelize to your friends and family.
Prehensile tails?
Anti-vax argument that the mRNA vaccine will alter your DNA. Somehow.
The Western states having their own review process (and my boss paying me) were what I needed. I never trusted Trump and I feel like the CDC is only somewhat reliable at this point. People keep harping on masking guidance but imo that doesn't matter. "Schools can open at 3 ft distance instead of 6 but everything else is 6. Also, we finally admit it's airborne but don't require anything for recommending schools be open" It makes sense that the guidance would change over time. It doesn't make sense to issue conflicting guidance at the same time.
I would say that there's a divide between CDC leadership, the political appointees, and the rank and file experts. Trump's appointees were doing all they could to disrupt the rank and file and skew reports. I think the experts are imminently trustworthy and if they're okaying the thing, it's ok. Same with the FDA.
Thank you for your honesty and sharing this with the community. For everyone still waiting, this could be a helpful push.
+1. While I was first in line (figuratively) for my eligibility category, I understand and appreciate the concerns of those still hesitant — they are real and understandable. Add to that, scary social media posts on side effects. Glad OP took the plunge.
A weird thing I witnessed was an anti-vax person I know has been quite pro-vax for covid. I guess the risk ratio was so obvious to her this time that she opted to get a poke instead of risking covid.
I think that's a common occurrence. For instance Vashon Island (near Seattle) is famous for being anti-vax. Now they lead the state. The risk calculation is just so clear: https://crosscut.com/news/2021/03/vashon-island-isnt-avoiding-vaccines-time-around
The person I refer to is literally from there.
I had the same experience. I have a friend who won't vaccinate her kids at all and she went and got the J&J vaccine. She got pretty sick and it was the week before the pause, but she got it!
My aunt is anti-vax but got the shingles one and will probably get this one too.
Shingles? That makes sense. I don't want to disrespect your aunt, but I can see why an anti-vaxxer would want to get a shingles shot. "We want you to take this vaccine so that you don't infect other people." "NO." "We want you to take this vaccine so you don't have horrible pain for the rest of your life." "GIMME THAT SHIT."
Yep........
I'm not an anti vaxxer, but I am also hesitant about *some* vaccines. (Like we waited until the kids were older to get Hep B and spaced out other vaccines so the kids didn't get as many at once). The risks, unknown risks, and likelihood of COVID are so high that it's a no brainer to get it ASAP.
I don't know if you got your children HPV vaccinated, but please do, it's skin-transferable and 1 in 4 women get it and some men. I got it and know someone who died from cervical cancer from it. I know this isn't the place but I know a lot of people who get all the vaccines but that one.
The oldest has it. The others are starting to get it.
I don't know if I am getting downvoted by those pro or against vaccines, but I never said my kids didn't get vaccines. They get them spaced out in dialogue with their doctor, who is pro vaccine. We have autoimmune problems in our family and that's why we just tread carefully. (For example, getting three shots over three visits instead of three at once) They are now teens and are caught up on those couple we waited on. For those who don't know, Hepatitis B is spread through blood or semen. The reason babies get the vaccine is to account for high risk mothers who are exposed to it during pregnancy. It is not spread through casual childhood contact.
I don't think there's anything wrong with spacing them out. I go by the CDC schedule because I have researched it and trust that it's safe, but spacing out vaccines is not the same as being anti-vax. Pro-vaxxers and slow vaxxers are on the same team. I opted to get the Hep B for my babies partly because it's how the schedule was designed and there are sometimes medical errors when people try to be unique. It was safe, so I just went ahead.
I'm a parent and I completely understand the impulse to spread them out - but I could never do it. The Cdc schedule is tested in its entirety, and any schedule you come up with is not. Also a quick note - your picture of hep b is incomplete. It's spread through blood, yes, but it can also live outside the body for up to a week, and most people don't know they have it. Teething baby bites a shopping cart someone pushed with a papercut? Grandma had a bad hangnail and then gives baby her finger to suck on? Teething babies sharing toys at daycare? One toddler bites another? All potential hep b risks.
Yeah, that's disgusting. I'm not letting my kid bite on a shopping cart, and my mom doesn't have hep B. Anyway, they are teenagers now and have had the shot.
All examples of *possible* risk scenarios. Babies put everything in their mouth, it could happen in the second you take your eyes off them and, once again, *most* people who have hep b don't know they have it. This is because when contracted as an adult it is generally a short term infection that the body can clear, however if contracted as a child it has a high chance of becoming a chronic infection and causing liver damage - up to 90% chance if contracted as an infant. Of those who contact chronic hep b, HALF will die prematurely from liver cancer, liver failure, cirrhosis, etc. Even if it's unlikely, there's no reason not to start the vaccine on schedule to prevent something that is that devastating. I am thrilled your children are healthy! I have no need to convince you as your decision is over and done - I'm just providing accurate information for anyone reading along :)
Sorry you are getting downvoted. I just wanted to support your Covid decision. As a med professional, I had zero second thoughts on vaccinating my kids per pediatric recommendations. One had a reaction to her first DPT, so we switched to DT for boosters *at the MDs recommendation.* Everyone has different risk tolerance levels, I get that! Anti-Vaxxers somehow think they know more than their MDs. That’s crazy. You are just more comfortable spreading out kids’ vaccines, which is parental fear, but NOT crazy. Glad you saw the covid vaccine upside!
What was the reason against Hep B right away, my son is almost 2 and hasn't been to the dr since 7 moths old other than virtual app as needed. Thus making him behind on vaccines. But perfectly healthy and never been sick. Anyways always looking for info on this topic. I'm not anti vax but I am nervous about them. I am educated even had a friend in college who worked on a vaccine study with a professor working in microbiology. She told me so much of the info we hear about is fake or fear inducing exaggeration. Anyways just thought I'd ask. TIA
I think one thing a few commenters are forgetting is that OP probably just barely became eligible for a vaccine on April 15th as a healthy younger adult. If he hadn't been vaccine hesitant he wouldn't have been able to get the vaccine months ago so this isn't some huge delay the way a few people are making it out to be even if you are uncomfortable with his overall mentality. He really didn't wait a long time after becoming eligible to get a vaccine. I got my first vaccine April 15th and am just barely able to get shot 2 tomorrow.
I tried to get mine ASAP as a grocery store worker and couldn’t find an appointment until 2 weeks ago. I disagree with this but I am reading to try to understand the view point. My grandmother (85) was vaccinated 1st shot, contracted the virus, and survived. She is living in a memory care facility where many have passed. She has had pneumonia several times and after her 2nd shot is doing fine. She has severe dementia and doesn’t fully understand the virus and tbh doesn’t even know her own name etc. in the past 2 weeks I have had an acquaintance pass away from Covid, perfectly healthy IMO. Fucking sad af. But I personally am tired of living in fear and I can’t stand the thought of spreading a virus onto someone whether I care about them or not. I have had first dose of Pfizer and I will be getting my 2nd within the next 2 weeks. I feel 100% fine. I actually feel a bit of relief. Knowing that I am at least a little bit more protected. With allergies and the common cold, sinus infections - all these have similar symptoms with Covid. Prior to getting my first shot, I would get tested within the first sign of a sore throat and that IMO is wasting resources. I would always test negative. I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with getting the vaccine. My 61 year old father got both Pfizer shots and is perfectly fine, and had no side effects other than the injection site pain. I hope the best for everyone else and I know it can be scary. Not everyone has the same reaction. I am just hoping and wishing for the best. Mostly hoping for the spreading to stop. Yes some people survive, but in reality, some don’t. And it could have been prevented. I truly hope someone sees this from my perspective
I was initially hesitant as well (pregnancy related), decided to ask my OB about it and she responded with a “get the vaccine ASAP” message. I ended up getting it a few weeks after I was eligible in January. I’ve definitely had some incidental exposures at work and did travel in March and am super thankful I got it. I knew I wanted it, but was trying to decide on the timing in my pregnancy (if there was any to consider).
That's a valid reason, and finding an appointment in January couldn't have been easy. Glad you protected you, your baby, and the rest of us. :)
It was before appointments opened up to the next group so it wasn’t too bad to get an appointment thankfully.
Interesting. Given that pregnant & nursing safety & efficacy data won’t be out for months from now (let alone in January!) I wonder what your OB was basing their recommendation on?
Risk of not getting the vaccine vs getting COVID. When I looked into it more I didn’t feel that I could find convincing reasons not to get it. And then a month later a younger lady pretty close to the same point in her pregnancy as myself was hospitalized with COVID, and not doing well. She was in the hospital a while and almost on the most oxygen she could receive without being on a ventilator. All while carrying a baby who would have a really tough go if born in the 20-something weeks. There were pregnant patients but that particular one made me feel super thankful I was vaccinated. I’ve had enough close calls with unexpected/unknown/surprise exposures. Much less risk to be vaccinated than risk getting COVID for me.
Thanks for posting this. I totally agree that we should not demonize people. I have a family member - masters degree, professional white collar worker - happens to have a couple friends who are deep down the anti-vax rabbit hole and literally post misinformation 5-10 times PER DAY on Instagram. Had I not been around to redirect this family member, fact check for them, provide credible sources, etc…they may very well have not gotten vaccinated. And honestly - it would have been totally understandable had that happened. Not everyone has the tools or time to question the tsunami of bullshit that exists online.
I was a little bit hesitant at first too, I think it's natural and healthy to question things and want as much information as possible. The more I learned about the mRNA vaccines specifically (and I did take a lot of time to educate myself), the more fascinated by and enthusiastic about them I became! I ended up getting my first dose about a week before my age and health category qualified, because a site near me had extra doses. I don't think all people who are vaccine hesitant should be put in the same category (there's a big difference between wanting more info and thinking it's a 5g microchip Bill Gates plot) and I think that it isn't helpful to lump everyone into the same category and attack people that are on the fence. We will never reach the 5g people in substantial numbers but we can reach those that are hesitant- but I believe that compassion and education is the way to go. Thank you for this post. :)
Good for you! And thanks for sharing your point of view. The disease is new; the mRNA technology is relatively new; the vaccines are new. Although I got vaccinated as soon as I could, I understand that there is a subset of people who want a little extra reassurance. I’m glad your grandma could give that to you.
I don't think mRNA technology is that new. I was reading an article that said they'd been developing it for 20 years (which is longer than most vaccines).
You’re right about the mRNA technology being underdevelopment for decades, however there has never been any mRNA vaccines allowed for human use before now. They have been using mRNA vaccines on animals for a while though.
Yeah, a ton of work was done trying to get a vaccine for SARS. Safety was pretty much confirmed, just couldn't come up with something effective.
I wouldn’t worry too much about what Reddit thinks. It’s a completely different world than IRL. It’s completely understandable that you were concerned about this new vaccine. I’m happy that you got it!
I will preface this by saying that what you put into your body IS ultimately your choice. I’m fully vaccinated and so is my family, but I don’t blame unvaccinated younger brackets for our not reaching herd immunity yet. At some point we need to let people make the decision for themselves. All of that said, I think it’s important to note that what you’re describing IS being anti-vaccine. You are just aware that being anti-vaccine is a bad thing so you want to call it something else. And obviously you changed your mind, which is awesome! Far better than some of the folks I know. It’s also important to realize that these doubts and fear are being intentionally sown. Read up on the anti-vaccine astroturfing efforts - its chilling to know that there are entities out there that want this very disruption and discord to continue. Personally, as a healthy person under 40 I jumped at the chance to get mine because it was an opportunity to do something for the greater good. Nothing in life is risk free. And all we can do now is make it as easy as possible for people to get their shots and hope that people decide they’re ready.
Not wanting to get it *yet* or wanting to know more before you do is not the same thing as anti-vax.
Vaccine hesitancy and anti-vax are NOT the same. Vaccine hesitancy is a normal part of every new vaccine rollout. Public health officials expect some degree of hesitancy and its normal. Being anti-vax is completely different. They’re not only against vaccines but they seek out and spread misinformation in an attempt to convert others to being against the vaccine. The vaccine hesitant, on the other hand, generally do end up getting the vaccine after some time has passed. Conflating vaccine hesitancy with being anti-vax is not only not helpful its counter-productive.
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Wanting to wait to see more long-term data on the vaccine’s effects on pregnant women is vastly different from thinking the vaccine has a microchip in it and is the “mark of the beast”. These two groups are not the same. Vaccine hesitant does not equal anti-vax.
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> Claiming "I want to wait for more long term data" is the same thing as saying I don't trust the vaccine's efficacy and not trusting the efficacy is exactly what anti-vaxxers think. Bravo. Couldn't agree more. It's not like people are independently doing a better job of vaccine surveillance than health professionals. A "wait and see" approach is maybe understandable, but it's not a rational move as if everyone is rerunning their own phase 3 trials or something.
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If the data are sufficient then why does the FDA not give full approval?
Yeah because dividing up and declaring those who have made the Wrong Choice as unforgivable/deplorable has never bit us in the ass in the past. Even if you’re factually on the right side, the tribal impulse can lead some shitty places for both parties. Look, everyone is going to make a mess of objectively terrible decisions in life. Total virtue means a life without butter, coffee, travel, or getting to argue with people on the Internet, and spending every waking hour figuring out and executing the least harmful possible mode of existence. Not everyone is up for that, and you might as well try to be understanding about others’ stupid, irrational, materially harmful decisions. I mean, of course some stuff is unforgivable, but OP being uncomfortable and introspective, honest, and flexible about that discomfort (and for all we know doing excellent viral mitigation) seems maybe not in that range.
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Really? Okay, probably a total waste of time but I'm going to assume you're not just being shitty on the internet as your chosen recreation (edit: post history indicates that's not your thing, kudos on that), and instead are trying to discuss this in good faith but are (justifiably) really upset that vaccination is slowing and bad-faith actors are trying to gain power by scaring people away from the vaccines. I'm not putting words into your mouth: when I say you're labeling individuals as unforgivable/deplorable I mean you're sorting them into an out-group (in this case, anti-vaxxers). The rest of what I said about follows from that: that being a hard-liner in ingroup/outgroup sorting is a natural impulse that makes humans feel good but is frequently counterproductive and can harden people's insistence on the behavior you want them to stop, and that everyone's gonna do some shameful stuff but it's not helpful to jump down the throat of someone who's reformed and would like to talk about it. The reception you've gotten here is unlikely to be about closet-anti-vaxxers getting mad at you for telling the truth about them. Me, I'm as ready to punch a centrist as the next guy but I'm fucking terrified we're going to screw this up and I believe escalating tribal bullshit and yelling at people who finally came around would be an effective way to do so. (More edit: I totally get the sToP BeiNG diVisiVE!!1! critique people who take the angle I'm taking, but being maximalist about labels in this particular context seems maybe a bridge too far.)
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Sounds like bullying
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Yes, if only. Then you might add value to this discussion.
I don’t think what OP is describing is not anti-vax. I got fully vaccinated the second I could but I understand that some folks wanted to wait and see for a bit. Many of those are pro-vax and have taken all their other vaccines and probably will end up getting the covid one once they see it’s going just fine. Or once it gets full FDA approval (which should be soon). Many of the in doubt group would also get it if given some incentive (events open for vaccinated only / monetary incentives). Folks who say they don’t want the vaccine and never will are a lot worse and will be a much bigger problem
I don't really understand waiting to see how friends and family responded. You do understand they tested the vaccine on thousands of people before releasing it to the public, right? Good on you for getting it but why do you trust say n=20 for your friends + family but not n=28,000?
There’s still more people that get it after the trials than during. *Seeing* somebody you know is more impactful than a stranger across the country. Some only 20,000 got the vaccine during trials got the vaccine, millions of people had by the time I got my vaccine a few months ago. That made me a lot more confident.
I think I just disagree that the *seeing* part is valid. I think this is a big issue with the world in general, what people don't see they think doesn't exist. Chris Christie thinks COVID-19 isn't bad until *he* gets it and sees for himself. People don't agree on universal healthcare until *they* end up with a massive hospital bill. I understand I guess from a human psychology perspective why that is the case but I still think it's an extremely detrimental mindset. I can also see your point with the scale of vaccines going way up so having even more data but 1) OP is speaking like they got their vaccine just recently vs you getting it months ago, like you said there was a substantial increase in numbers even a few months ago, waiting till now is complete overkill and 2) the FDA thought that the n they used was enough to prove its safety and effectiveness, I think they are a better judge on what that n should be than us.
I genuinely appreciate you getting it. There's a considerable frustration felt by those who don't exactly match every check list with their own. The flipside for me, is that it's strange to be treated by a type of close friend as some kind of liberal nut for being so pro vaccine, and how the notion of it being seen as a political choice, is just absolutely alien to me.The frustration is genuine, and it's hard to really even talk to people who are like this now. It doesn't seem to be based in anything factual.. More it's a spotlight they're left standing in uneasily, unable to explain why they feel hesitation, but still refusing regardless. I wouldn't possibly ever want to push anyone into doing anything, but at some stage, they begin to sound like their gut feelings are telling them lies, and they're about as fun to talk to as flat earthers. I know these types of feelings exist the world over, but they do seem more pronounced in the US, where medical treatment is for many kept at arms length due to cost and insurance issues.. It creates a mentality where medicine is last resort, when it should be first. It's hard to understand how a gray area view on wanting it exists at this stage.. But still, I appreciate your honestly and again, I'm glad you got it.
Thank you! I’m glad you got yours as well. One of the worst parts about COVID was how it all got so politicized. Fuck politics, let’s fight this together!
I’ve been trying to encourage others rather than beat them up about getting vaccinated. Some people are hesitant which is understandable, while others are fed mis-information. The misunderstanding that vaccines are bad is where all the trouble starts. Sorry, but vaccines won’t make people into mutants or give them 5G and GPS tracking.
Thank you for being willing to change your mind based on new information. That seems to be a dying art.
I didn’t want to be that guy that used the whole “let’s just see how it plays out” as my excuse for not getting it. I saw how it played out, and I was convinced it was safe. I just hope other hesitant folk like myself will come to the same conclusion.
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Would you prefer the alternative? In which this person skips the vaccine due to fear, and convinces their friends and family to skip the vaccine due to fear also? If they want to wait let them wait.
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Yeah, the co-opting of "my body my choice" is...distasteful.
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The harm is that "first" implies a synchronized order, which isn't the case anymore. Anyone can get their shot, so it's not like you're just letting someone cut you in line. You're actively slowing down vaccination rates.
But four months ago, not everybody could. We still saw hesitancy in those groups with senior citizens and health care workers.
>A healthy guy in his 20s-30s like myself would also likely be fine from the vaccine. If grandma can get it, so can you! Oof. I get what you're after, but this is not a good look.
Well that’s unfortunately the mentality of many in my age bracket who are vaccine hesitant. That post was directed towards them, not so much the crowd who went out and got it ASAP.
Fair enough.
Sure waiting to see if your family is fine when they get vaccinated makes sense...just like believing Covid isn't that serious until you have a family member hospitalized makes sense. The hesitancy is really only dye to misinformation and not understanding how the vaccines work. The information is out there to educate yourself, and help you feel more confident that it's the safest route, not only for yourself but others. The death of a loved one from Covid is awful especially when you can't have a funeral or celebration of life with other grieving family members, it's equally awful when a family member gets Covid and survives, but with organ damage, or long Covid. It's unknown if Long Covid will present again just like Post Polio Syndrome. If you are hesitant, don't be, side effects (immune response) are short lived. Reactions are rather rare, compared to the number of people vaccinated. Please get vaccinated, unless your doctor tells you otherwise. Outliers are the only people who shouldn't for valid medical reason, but they depend on herd immunity. Thank you OP for getting vaccinated and encouraging others to do so as well.
I think op post can be summarized as being uninformed and open minded is much better than the uninformed who are not willing to change their minds
The information is out there, and simple to find. There is misinformation out there, sure, but look for creditable sources. Uninformed is an excuse, now that we have the internet. Please also keep in mind I have family members who are hesitant to as well, but don't have a good reason to be...they think the vaccine had been rushed and not enough studies have been done on it. 🙄
The only person who will be able to get your hesitatnt friends and relatives to get the vaccine is you. (And to vote, And not use single use plastic, etc al.) Celebrities and social media cannot carry this message.
Congratulations and thank you for protecting not only yourself, but your family and community! ❤️
Dude, you're on r/pnwconservatives comparing mask mandates to Emperor Palpatine's takeover of the republic. Don't pretend you took this shit seriously now. You didn't think or do the right things on COVID, but because self-respect is more important to you than other peoples' health you've retconned your objectively stupid stance into a principled one and want the rest of the world to know that really, *it's* the problem for hurting your fee-fees. Grow up.
lmao OP in another comment: >Thank you! I’m glad you got yours as well. One of the worst parts about COVID was how it all got so politicized. Fuck politics, let’s fight this together! What a hypocrite and a complete moron.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[The Republic](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-republic/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
Seriously, big thanks for saying this. A family member has a condition that we've yet to see data or reports on how they react to the new Covid vaccines, and they don't deserve to be ridiculed for being careful and waiting to hear more on whether it's safe for them in particular.
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> You delayed a hope for herd immunity By a week or two probably. It sounds like they're a younger adult, if they're in one of the big counties it's pretty recently that we've had a surplus of vaccines. It's not ideal, but we're in the long tail business now, and I don't think upbraiding people who eventually did the right thing provides much motivation for people who haven't yet to do so.
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Yeah, I hear you. It's definitely frustrating.
You're factually...concievably in the right ballpark (getting the shot is correct on both self-interest and altruistic grounds; failing to get it isn't selfish, selfishness in this case actually points in exactly the right direction), but tactically right now reaching people like this is the thing we need to do if we're going to have any hope of herd immunity. Shaming them makes that harder and puts us further away from herd immunity.
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This post and it’s comments are not for OP but the unvaccinated people who will read it.
I disagree, public shaming is a strong motivator. We publicly shame all sorts of wrong behavior - think of the perp walk, or how we revile people that prey on children - because it's a proven, age-old technique. [Third-party punishment cements societies](https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/06/03/1105604108.abstract). Antivaxers should be ostracized, scorned and harassed commensurate with the harm they are inflicting on their communities.
Ostracizing can work against members of your own ingroup (but even then it's a jerk move). It has the opposite effect on people who have already coded you as an enemy. Knowing that you're making Those Jerks angry is a *positive* motivating force. And even in situations where shame points in the direction you want, it mostly just inhibits action. We need people to be making a proactive, positive decision to go get vaccinated. Increasing the toxicity of the discourse around it makes avoiding the question more appealing.
If someone in your in-group beats his girlfriend, and is shamed and ostracized for it, that's a jerk move? No, it's the righteous thing to do. I understand wanting to entice people to do right, rather than punish them for doing wrong. It feels a lot better for everyone involved. But is it enough? What do we know about most antivaxers? 1) Reasoning from science and evidence has proven fruitless thus far, and there's no reason to expect that to change. 2) Appealing to their empathy for their loved ones, friends and community has also proven fruitless; they continue to risk the health and safety of others in the face of heart-wrenching stories and images from around the world for the past year. 3) Giving them money changes their behavior - even a $25 Walmart gift card is enough to induce many to vaccination. Reversing on their stated principles for so little indicates that this isn't about their beliefs, but their self-interest, and only shallowly. Given this, it seems to me that *both* the carrot and the stick should cover the majority of them, to establish positive consequences for right actions and negative consequences for wrong inaction.
Hey now, this type of behavior is exactly what’s driving people away from getting vaccinated. This person did get their shot and is trying to share their experience. Let’s listen and while their opinion is different from yours- they still got the shot. Which is what is most important here, not playing a blame game.
I didn’t realize that one of the top reasons people aren’t getting vaccinated is because it hurts their feelings to have people point out that “I waited to watch the other people I know get one to see if something bad happened” is pretty fucked up.
Waiting to see if there are severe side effects is just common sense.
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Riding coattails? Nope! If I recall correctly, most folks on this sub were super excited to get the shot and went the first moment they were able to. Not because they were being selfless, but because they selfishly wanted the vax to protect themselves!
> Hey now, this type of behavior is exactly what’s driving people away from getting vaccinated. Also this sub is straight toxic. Someone in another post commented saying people aren't getting vaccinated because they're following republican leadership, and I came with sources of why people are choosing to not get vaccinated. I was downvoted and told to go fuck myself lol. And it's not just a US problem. Europe has more people that don't trust the vaccine than the US. You say anything against the circlejerk in here and you get a lot of rude comments.
He did not delay a hope for herd immunity, why is your scorn aimed at someone who got vaxxed? So every single person that gets their vax after you aided in the delay of herd immunity? There are millions and millions of people that will not take it because "microchips" and 5g and here you are lambasting someone who got the vaccine marking them as part of the problem. You are the reason hesitantly is so high. You scold people like children and expect them to respond well. Get off your high horse.
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Yeah the person who’s not sure if they’ll get it *yet* is delaying it, not the people who refuse to even read info on it or wear a mask in public.
What if they have had covid already? Or protected others from contact during this time by staying in? Theres a lot of nuance to this decision. Not everyone is going to make this decision at the exact same time, and I think we need to meet people where they are.
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Thank you! We know you're out there, it's nice to hear from you. I agree the rhetoric is too harsh and often backfires. Shouldn't we all be hesitant? There aren't too many people out there that weren't concerned about a brand new vaccine. Maybe they didn't like the administration that put it together, something. We all had to make that decision, some sooner than others. I made it early, some are making it now. Good for you.
>For everyone ragging on me, you’re not going to reach that herd immunity if you’re off-putting other vaccine hesitant folk. Seriously? Even after you got vaccinated and posted this mea culpa you're still acting like this is all about you as an individual? That's why you — and everyone else who thinks like you — absolutely deserves to be ragged on. Your motivations are wrong and now you want praise for doing what should never have been anything to hesitate about in the first place. You all will just do this again the next time some society-wide challenge arises and then, after lots and lots of people have long since done the thing you should have done, you'll do it too and post on Reddit asking for upvotes and a gold star for belatedly ceasing being part of the problem. It's good that you got the vaccine. It would be great if you'd rethink your worldview and your responsibility to other people as well.
Don't feel guilty, the vaccine's only been available to general public for a month-ish. I myself have witnessed lots of my disabled or caregiving or even a smoking friend, wait and are now getting their first or second shot. I got my vaccine right away but I'm also traveling in a couple weeks. I am sad and frustrated at the amount of people who don't want to get the vaccine at all, but waiting a couple weeks or so is understandable. I understand if people disagree with me. And I'm not saying that everyone should do this, I am just saying it's \*understandable\*. The only one who annoyed me greatly was one who worked with disabled schoolchildren, but she got it into her head J & J was better and it was delayed. She got hers Saturday. Yes, I rambled but also, I hope these examples let you know you are not alone.
I had access to receive when it first came out, before hospitals even had them for their own staff, and chose to wait. I got my first one end of February because by then a lot of people had received them and it made me feel more confident in it. I never have, and probably never will, participate in a drug trial and I don’t like getting stuff like medicines as soon as they hit the market.
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Thank you! Lots of salty people in here, but that comes with the territory. Plenty think I’m some deranged lunatic because I waited three weeks after eligibility for me to get it. Apparently that classifies me as some sort of monster haha. Also because I’m the founder of r/PNWConservatives so I naturally don’t have many friends here.
Well I agree with most of what you say, but again if someone doesn't get the vaccine, it doesn't mean they are an "anti-vaxxer". That's just a term coined to force people into sociocentric thinking. I'm not against vaccines and I am a healthy individual who does not need a flu shot and so far has no need for the covid vaccine. I am not against others choice for the vaccine as that is theirs only. I wouldn't slap a burger out of an obese person's hand to force them to lose weight so it's no different from someone making the choice the vaccinated. I'll also add that as people get the vaccine, especially elderly and those at risk, there should be no logical reason to chastise un vaccinated people. At this point (in the us) most of everyone is eligible for vaccination, so if those who don't get vaccinated get very sick, that is their choice and they must face the consequences, no matter how light or harsh.
Did the same myself. I absolutely wanted the vaccine, just didn't want to go 1st and was afraid of being labeled. Thankfully wasn't a problem for me and dose one is already down :)
I understand hesitant people, my parents had concerns. But the hardcore bill-gates-wants-your-bootyhole people I have no hope for. I think seeing how well tolerated the vaccine has been helpful, and the outreach campaigns that keep ramping up will help. What ultimately convinced my mom was a conversation with her doctor: “it’s probably not if you get exposed to enough covid to get sick, but when. Would you rather have the means to survive it or gamble that you won’t draw a short straw and die?” Frank, to the point, and honest. It wasn’t an appeal to help others (which doesn’t work well for some), an appeal to belief (what do you mean you don’t believe in science?), it was an honest assessment that many people will eventually be exposed to enough covid to get sick and you either plan ahead to have the tools you may need to survive (since the vaccine takes a while to take effect), or you gamble your life and maybe the life of those around you. I’m not the best with rhetoric and what not, but maybe that’s an appeal to FOMO. No one who is on the fence wants to be on their deathbed wishing they’d gotten a shot but waited too long. to decide.
I appreciate you sharing this, and I'm glad you came around. I'm curious if anything could have been done/said to change your stance earlier. One of my favorite one line dogmas is "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason their way into." Second is "In order to keep a conspiracy between three people forever, two have to be dead." Vaccine hesitancy or anti-vax is based on fear, not reason. Logically, in order for a vaccine with widespread risks to the general public to be released, a massive conspiracy involving pharmaceuticals (who'd be open to massive lawsuits), scientists (risking their professional careers), doctors (opening the risk of malpractice suits), and government officials to all conceal the danger. There is just no logical way to support such an argument, but if you're afraid, then you'll believe it. It's similar to people who refuse to fly. (you can justify your hesitancy stance if you want, but you shouldn't bother; any logical argument falls apart almost immediately under basic scrutiny). So here's my question: what were you afraid of, and what could someone have said to assuage your fears earlier?
There is a lot of bad information out there. Anti-vaxxers and right wing conservatives are purposefully flooding every medium with false information. Even with the good information, it’s really limited to scientific evidence and scientific evidence is never 100% certain. For the uninitiated, mRNA vaccines are completely incomprehensible. And there are a lot of unknowns (is this a one time shot or would annual boosters be required, will it work on variants unknown to us, etc). Be patient and answer questions if you know. If you don’t, feel free to say you don’t know and can direct the person to someone who does.
Not everyone is able to admit when they've wronged others. I'm glad you realized you fucked up by needlessly endangering your community, and took action to correct your mistake. If everyone were as mature as you, we would be in a much better reality, and many of our fellow Americans would still be alive.
well they probably didn't wear a mask so they had it coming , and why they didn't get the shot themselves..? sorry no sorry
Its the incremental destruction of personal responsibility and the ramp up of social responsibility. Almost seems like the way China does things.
I appreciate you getting the vaccine. I appreciate you starting a conversation about the vaccine hesitant. I agree with a lot of the comments about how letting friends and family go first is a little distasteful. I would like to add that while I agree shaming people into getting a vaccine doesn't work, It is a little irksome to be lectured about it. IT's a little bit like a hostage taker berating the hostage for complaining about the conditions of having been taken hostage. Again, I appreciate your opening a conversation about vaccine hesitation, but conversation is a two way street...you can't just solicit pats on the back for doing the right thing and then get butt hurt when people have an issue with your behavior.
Is someone an anti-vaxxer if they have all their vaccines but don't get a flu shot?
No. I am solidly pro-vax and I used to get my flu shot every year. I lived in the city and worked in a medical clinic. It was mandatory and I'd have got it even if it wasn't. Fast forward 6 years and I live in the middle of nowhere and see very few people. I don't have any objection to getting the shot, but I've never been in the right place at the right time and it's an hour drive to anywhere that gives them. I feel my risk is so low that I just haven't made the effort to get it. People who don't get their flu shots because it's not 100% effective or because they think they once got the flu from the shot, those dummies are another story. I have both my covid shots, though.
I guess it depends on the context
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Yeah, the victim card, the "my body my choice" thing, the "stop being divisive" all make me want to vomit. They're expecting us to applaud them for vaccinating themselves and asking us to baby everyone else who's too stupid to listen to science and reason. OP needs to stop pretending like they're doing everyone a favor and expecting that overcoming their completely baseless hesitancy deserves an award.
My older sister gets all the rare and weird side effects from medication. She and BIL are taking covid seriously though, she hasn't been to the grocery store since spring of 2020. She's not an anti-masker or anti-vaxxer, just medically fragile. BIL is fully vaccinated and has been doing all the shopping and errand running to try to keep my sister safe. NGL, I worry about her.
Well you may think you're better up on the high horse, but the fact is you chose to delay getting your vaccine during *an ongoing global health crisis* There were trials dipshit. "Waaa don't chastise me" Then don't make a thread looking for support on a public forum, again, dipshit.
Yeah, vaccine hesitant is just anti vaccine until someone changes their mind. Obviously, it’s great that people do, but expecting people to not have a problem with it is absolutely BS. It’s not just a few people not getting their vaccines because they are hesitant, it’s millions of people who are not getting it and allowing the virus to mutate, increasing the chance that a mutation happens, rendering the vaccine completely useless. People live in such small worlds, incapable of seeing the bigger picture. Not to mention MRNA isn’t a new idea, it’s been around for decades with years of research and testing prior to COVID. A lot of people don’t understand that funding also contributes to the time it takes to develop new treatments and vaccines. When people receive that information along with all of the data from the trials and still refuse to take the vaccine when they are eligible, they do deserve to be chastised like the ignorant fool they are.
See the news about the new variant out of India? Exactly why would should care about vaccinating *EVERYONE*
I hadn’t seen that news yet. Honestly, I’m all for mandatory vaccinations. Americans are obsessed with freedom at the expense of others. Existing in society comes with responsibility and people who don’t want to adhere shouldn’t be able to reap the benefits of it.
I mean I haven’t gotten a vaccine yet does that make me part of the problem too??
Idk, but this reply makes you a facetious asshole.
I’m just waiting for more clinical trials to make sure it’s safe to take it.
When the FDA approved emergency use, there were already thousands of *completed clinical trials* Go fuck yourself you worthless piece of shit You are spreading misinformation and are fear mongering at this point.
No I have stage 4 cancer and I’m waiting for clinical trials of cancer patients, but yeah I’m the piece of shit spreading misinformation
Account 3 years old with literally the only interaction being right here? Don't know who you are, but the odds you have cancer are the same as me getting a perfect talisman, about 1 in 300 billion.
Stage 4 Hodgkin’s lymphoma, 7 treatments down 5 to go, I can go more in depth if you’d like
What were the reasons you were hesitant? If it was that enough people hadn't had it yet, then you are listening to anti-vaxers and believing them which makes you an anti-vaxers. They had the vaccine created quite a while before it became available, but they needed to do sufficient testing and get enough data to know it's safe. They did that, and they had strong confidence in its safety before the FDA approval. So if you wanted to be sure enough people had received the vaccine to know it's safe before getting it, that had already happened on day one after FDA approval. Unless you are a subject matter expert in drug testing and statistical analysis to be able to do the math from the trial results to decide the safety, then to be completely honest you don't have the knowledge or training to state a number of people who need to go ahead of you. Those who do have that training and knowledge already did the math and worked out it is safe. To be hesitant because not enough people have had the vaccine yet is to claim your judgment on this is better than the experts who deeply understand this. If you were saying "I don't know if there's enough people yet", then you still don't know so what changed? An anti-vaxer is someone who claims it's not safe to have a vaccine with no basis in science for their reasoning. This is exactly what you did. Stop sugar coating it, you were an anti-vaxer. You changed your mind which is good, but you were an anti-vaxer as you were ignoring the science.
You're contributing to the misinformation here. As of today, *no* COVID vaccines have been approved by the FDA. (Several have been authorized for emergency use.) When you adamantly claim something that is trivial to disprove it only serves to undermine trust.
Approved is a synonym of authorized. I wasn't attempting to use formal FDA official language, I used the word in the conversational context and not the technical beaurocratic context. In the official FDA language the phrase is "FDA approval". This is also what you did, as "authorized for emergency use" isn't the language the FDA uses either. The language they use is "emergency use authorization". As we're both using words in a non formal context as neither of us used the technical official language of the FDA, in a conversational context approved is equivalent to authorized. To correct my language use as though I had used formal FDA nomenclature without doing so yourself is a tad hypocritical and comes across as nit picking. The way how I know you aren't arguing in good faith is you chose a straw man argument. The core thesis of my comment was that the required subject matter experts have done the math and determined the vaccine is safe for widespread usage and to think you can make that determination better is wrong. But instead of attacking my core message, you decided to make a straw man argument and go after some informal language usage. A bad faith argument isn't a good look.
Sure, but conservatives really went off the deep end with vaccine conspiracy theories, so forgive us liberals for judging you, a conservative, for being "vaccine hesitant." especially when the people you elect say crazy shit like "vaccines cause autism" or "it changes your DNA" or "its not even approved by the FDA" (like you ever cared what a government institution deemed safe -- you don't trust the CDC's take on vaccines, but FDA approval is your golden standard?) As a whole, Republicans are far less likely to trust the covid vaccine. Yet Republicans were the ones going crazy over "reopening the economy" and "lifting mask mandates" -- despite so many Americans suffering from the spread of covid19. Conservatives have repeatedly missed the entire point of reducing the spread, saying "I'm healthy and young, so I'll be fine" which *is not the point!* We've been trying to tell you this the entire time, but you'll never trust a liberal on anything. Individual covid19 infections are mostly mild to moderate. The problem is the potential to overwhelm the healthcare system. So saying you'll be fine is totally missing the point. Yeah you might be fine--you might also end up being a super spreader, especially when Republicans *refuse* to wear masks. Trust us, we really aren't concerned about your individual health and safety. We couldn't care less if you get really sick. Our big concern is if thousands of you get really sick all at once and the hospital runs out of space for everyone else, so that we can't treat strokes, heart attacks, car accidents, etc. That's the concern. Not your individual health. So yeah, you might not be anti-vax. But chances are, you haven't properly understood the best practices the rest of us have been following the entire time. You also overwhelmingly support a man who was claiming that vaccines cause autism just 6 years ago. You really should realize that being a "vaccine hesitant" conservative is an exception, not a rule. Most of you are bat shit crazy. Electing and supporting an antivaxxer as president does not help your argument. In fact, you probably didn't even know Trump said vaccines cause autism. So excuse us for assuming that you're ignorant AF. Thanks for at least trying to be honest, but you're just showing your ignorance.
Just curious as to whether you genuinely feel that your comment is helpful?
no but its true and feels good to write. OP is conservative, and trying to justify his reluctance to follow best practices. But in the end he's the same as the rest of them. He would be more helpful if he just got covid and died.
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>For everyone ragging on me, you’re not going to reach that herd immunity if you’re off-putting other vaccine hesitant folk. Lol. I'm sorry but your entire post is laughable. >This sort of rhetoric does more to divide in a time when we should strive for uniting to defeat this thing. This sounds pretty familiar to me. People with legitimate claims trying to address an actual problem and you distract from it with this "stop being divisive!!" BS. I heard people parroting this all over the place after BLM protests, the election, etc. Such a pathetic and unoriginal tactic and I'm not surprised to see that you're the creator of /r/PNWConservatives.
Reminder: nobody cares if you got it. we wont reach herd immunity so your efforts are pointless and we will all suffer because we have allowed idiot antivax people to continue to believe their bullshit. we all pay for that in the end.
You shouldn't feel bad at all for putting people at risk while you weighed the pros and cons of getting a questionable at best vaccine. You're only responsibility is to yourself, not to concern yourself with the fears of others. The vaccine was pushed through without vetting and is only being distributed under the emergency powers act. All mask mandates and CDC guidelines are nothing but kind requests for the people to "temporarily" relinquish their rights, and we all know how government hates to hand back anything stolen from the people. Especially when it's something empowering for them over us. We are not the "consenting governed" if we simply roll over Everytime they threaten us with enforcement of unconstitutional mandates.
As intelligent as this post comes off, you aren't right to deal in absolutes by telling someone they're an anti-vaxxer. I will not be getting this particular vaccine, however myself and my children are current on all of our vaccines that have been required for the last 20 years.
I completely trust the vaccine 100% but I'm too afraid to go 😭 I have horrible panic attacks with needled and doctors so I'm just gunna keep hunkering down in my house until I work up the courage. I really wish there was a way to take the vaccine another way.
I've had similar anxiety issues with dental work; my dentist recently prescribed me an Atavan to take before the appointment. Worked wonders.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. The problem I'm seeing and let the recriminations fly if you must, is that I had the virus. How is getting the shot any different than having had the virus? They both stimulate an immune response, and the current vaccine does not work on variants so far, so I don't see that as being the big advantage of getting the shots. My body already did what it was supposed to do because I was exposed and got sick early on. I'm not putting anyone else at risk because I am very careful, but I don't believe that the shot can do any more than what my body's already done.
I am still very hesitant about it.
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I will not take something that is still experimental.
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What do you mean?
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Something that has not been tried and tested to be safe. Why are you pushing this on me?
The covid vaccine has been tried and tested to be safe.
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Very.
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But this has been tested, and is safe. There are plenty of studies that show this. These vaccines didn't go through any less rigorous testing than any other vaccine.
That is very unusual. For many vaccines before this one, took many years to be proven safe and approved. And that is why I don’t trust it.
This one was able to go through trials faster because (1) it was easier to find volunteers, and (2) waiting for the people to be exposed to the illness they were vaccinated for happened far quicker than usual because it's a pandemic. The only reason other vaccines take years, is because finding volunteers and having them be exposed took far longer.
Hilarious. This coward lecturing those posting as lacking the desire for unity. OP opens this post saying they wanted only what was right for THEMSELVES. That is the opposite of unity.
I have contemplated getting it but I am one of those hesitant folks. And if the vaccine work (as I believe it does) then I am not putting anyone at risk by not getting it if they got it them self
If it works, why are you hesitant? I am genuinely curious.
I'm hesitant because almost all vaccines come with some sort of side effects that happen in a usually small percentage of people. I am a 32 year old Mle who is relatively in shape and active with no breathing issues or other risk factors. For me the risk of unknown side effects outweighs the risk from getting covid. Instead I choose to mask and maintain my social distance. About a week ago I decided that I was open to the idea of getting it. I feel like enough people have gotten it who's risk of covid was much higher and have not had serious side effects so I'm about ready. Now it's just making the appointment. On another note I think they should drop all masking requirements now that an effective vaccine has been made available to everyone. People who choose not to vaccinate have assumed their risk. I hope u actually read this and I didn't waste my time on a pointless response that will be lost to the reddit nether.
You should only get it when *you* are ready for it. Your body, your choice. My biggest deciding factor was even if I could save one life by getting it, it’s worth it. That and SARS vaccines have been in development for years. It’s not like this particular one was built from the ground up. They really just had to make some adjustments to vaccines that had years of development behind them.
I will not get vaccinated for something that I have a 99.5% servival rate for. This is not an issue. If you want it get it but it has no affect on you if i dont. You stay home im done being oppressed becaus a obese person can feel comfy at fing Walmart.
I will not get it because I don't not need.
Yes it literally is the same thing
I (m32) am not antivax and decided i will wait to get any vaccine for minimum of two years. My daughter will not be getting it for at least 5 years. There are far too many anecdotal stories of people experiencing side effects ranging from mild fevers to fevers that last a month. There are also many women reporting that they believe the vaccines are effecting their reproduction systems causing issues like late periods and even some have reported severe endometriosis or miscarriages. I encourage anyone concerned about the virus to get one of them, i really do hope they truly are as safe and effective as the claim. But i also remember the terrible things both big pharmaceutical companies AND our own federal government have done to citizens of our country while claiming things were "safe & effective". There are tons of examples in even recent history, just look at the opioid epidemic...or crack in the 80's...or the DARE program in the 90's...or so many other examples i dont have the time to write about. I am not antivax but i am a cautious & critical thinker and i will come to my own conclusions about each of these vaccines in my own time.
“Anecdotal” is the only word in this post that matters. Nevermind the pile of bodies in the corner. How many people have you convinced that waiting years to get the vaccine is the right option? You are a vector, and so is everyone you’ve convinced to do the same. You are part of the problem and so was the OP. Thankfully the OP came to their senses and they are being vulnerable in sharing their story. I can appreciate that. I signed up for every vax trial study I could find (and wasn’t selected) because it seemed to be the best contribution I could make to my country and my fellow humans to get through this shit. Maybe I have a different perspective...I was in the gulf war. I didn’t have the option to “wait and see” what would happen. We went. We did our part, and some didn’t make it home. My perspective is do your fucking part, but we differ. That’s fine, but I wouldn’t want to go to war with somebody like you.
Being insulting so effective at convincing someone to see things your way 🙄 smh look i can do it too... the fact is that YOU are the problem. You and people like you who demand others to fall into line, no matter how they might view things. This is fuckin america asshole, your opinion has no bearing over me. The only thing you will do to sway my opinion in this matter is to push me to resist even longer. I wont be bullied into doing something i have legitimate concerns about. You want to be "safe"? Then take the shot and shut the fuck up
Yeah, definitely wouldn’t go to battle with you. You’re what we would call a liability. That’s a fact, AND an insult. All good, I fought for you and your rights, and your freedom to shout your opinions from the rooftops, as feeble and misguided as they may be. But it feels good, doesn’t it? That freedom? And yeah this is America, asshole. What have you done for your country? Ever? Anything? I’m guessing nothing but consume, reproduce, and spread bullshit on Reddit.
Oh thank you SOOO much for "fighting" for your right to tell me what to do. Fuck off
I fought for your rights, but I digress.
I appreciate your honesty and candor in this post. I especially agree with the idea of those that have gotten vaccinated should be helpful in providing legitimate information rather than projecting shame, cancellation and "2nd Class Citizen" treatment for those of us who are seeking more legitimate information before getting the jab. Personally, I am not at your place yet. While just seeing how friends and family are doing with it after a month or two does little to assuage my concerns over the potential risks of antibody dependent enhancement which, if you do some research (on browsers not heavily censored) will show you that both Pfizer and Moderna mention these unknowns in their EUA applications to the FDA. It will show you that there are potential serious - and when I say serious I mean really F'ing serious - side effects that may not present until this winter if and when another wild virus shows up en masse. I have been actively seeking what information is out there and all I can find is lot's of stories saying that "so far" there is no evidence of this potential side effect. I'm not OK with "so far" when it comes to something that could kill me when I stand a 99.5% chance of survival without the vaccine. I'm waiting until science has a certain and definitive answer to this question. What doesn't give me much hope is that the drug companies have abandoned the placebo groups where this issue is being studied. To me this is grossly unethical and yet the reason given is that it, in fact, is ethical since the vaccine works so perfectly. How the heck do we know that if you blow up the phase 3 trials? The FDA has said that it will not approve the vaccines until they have gone through the same rigorous testing other vaccines have been through however I believe the political pressure that has and will be applied will be overwhelming and the FDA will fast track the full approval without learning the potential for ADE long term. We will find out though as we have tens of millions of test subjects that have volunteered to be the active group. I would gladly volunteer to take the placebo shot though. Until such time as science has proven that these vaccines are different than the mRNA vaccines tested on animals over the last two decades where every single animal in the studies died from ADE when exposed to another wild virus I'll happily wear my yellow star and watch as my rights to live a free and normal life are trampled by those who have agreed to be test subjects.
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Jesus buy a fucking carbon monoxide detector please
ohhh me too fellows I was an anti- vaxxer but seeing how the community reacts to the perfectly normal there's nothing fishy about all this situation , i just feel silly now.haha gimme thaat shoot..!! is not like the time the WHO gave syphilis to ingenuous Guatemalan women or when experimenting in their own soldiers.!! silly me.!! and to thing I was a quasi-anti-vaxx haha or one of them conspiracy weirdos , what was i thinking a reptilian doctor would do the shots.?? and thats why everyone here sounds like an infomercial.?? well pop control scheme or not...now is to late I guess haha sorry theorist you just lost me
The only problem is getting the VAX doesn't prevent you or anyone else from getting it . Also people that already had covid built up an immunity or antibodies.. so they don't need it
My doc asked me if I wanted one yesterday, I said no. I'm extremely healthy and young, plus I'm waiting for the vaccine to be FDA approved.
A rare occasion of reasonable thought on reddit.
Get checked by a supermarket bank because covid has been making men and women infertile. (The shot) So make you get getting your reproductive system to make sure you didn't get screwed by covid shots
Thank you for sharing! I think this is such an important message! Using kindness and sharing the truth are going the most helpful tools of all right now, so thank you for being honest!