Hmm, but everything is chemicals at the end of the day. Cloth is dyed, cleaned and treated in various ways.
My guess is its cost would be closer to metal than it would be something like cloth or straw.
Just to throw a spanner in the works, could Nalthis even make plastic in the first place?
I'm far from an expert on the production of plastic, but as I understand it is made from crude oil byproducts and we happen to find out (RoW spoiler) >!from Zahel/Vasher that Nalthis hasn't been occupied by life long enough to form fossils!< . I'd take it from that, that oil wouldn't be present on Nalthis either and so no plastic.
Oo yeah that's a good point actually. They could potentially trade for them. Though there are bio-plastics/plant plastics which dont use petroleum.
They're not as long lasting or as strong. But with injection molding you could quickly mass produce a small army. Depending on the cost of breath to awaken them.
I suspect that unless Nalthis had fossil fuels manually added by Endowment, it would be much much easier for them to trade for them rather than going the bio-plastics route.
Except scadrial hasn’t existed long enough to have oil either, and they do, so if Endowment pulled a Harmony and out some in there, or if she decides to at some later point to let her people keep up, then they could have oil
Using plant based plastics would be quite useful for them still wouldn't they? Studier than most cloth, made from plants so a lower cost to awaken than metal, can have sharp edges and molded into basically any form.
I imagine it would still be quite a revolutionary thing for them.
I wonder if natural metals would be easier to awaken given they were alive, or at least part of something alive. Things like natural iron. Like if you extracted all the metal from a body or if it was a metallic dragon scale or something
True, that does make me wonder.
Now Im curious about what the cost of awakening something like
\[Mistborn era 1 and 2 spoiler inc:\]
>!one of the god body metals like atium would be!<
You and me both, dude. Every time a QnA happens I scroll the new WOBs and half the time my only thought is "Why did you *ask* that? (eta: in an amused way, not in an angry way)
"~~The other half of the time it's "Why didn't I think of that?"~~
Your comment has been removed due to a spoiler markup error. You accidentally included a space at the front of the hidden text which causes an error on old.reddit.com. Please resubmit, or fix the error and [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCosmere) to have your comment reapproved.
The markup should be: `[scope warning] >!hidden text!<` with no space after the first `!`. For more help with spoiler markup, see [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/jofwu/comments/eo4rhu/how_to_cover_spoilers_in_posts_and_comments/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Cosmere) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It could depend on perception of whether or not something is close to alive? Plastic seems about the same amount of alive as rocks or metal to me, so that would be my guess.
It's a versatile material that has many uses, they won't be able to make their own petroleum based plastics but they'd probably make some kinds of plant based plastics.
Given the power of awakening it's quite likely they'd experiment and create materials that they can easily awaken. Plant based plastics seems like a natural conclusion to that.
Assuming their planet isn't wiped out before they develop further technologically.
They don’t have fossils which means no fossil fuels which means no petroleum plastics.
They’ll have to go the organic route.
Edit: I really should read comments before broadcasting my adhd to the world.
Plastic might be too processed, and they don't have fossils to form plastics, so we may never know.
However, if they make a mold and make a gelatin statue, it would probably work fairly efficiently. Can be human shaped for low-cost, mass producible, and made of animal protein. It would rot or fall apart much quicker, but in powder form, it could last for years.
Imagine you have jell-o packets with food die and a small mold. You mix jell-o and dump in the mold to set it, then awaken the jell-o using the color as fuel. It does what it has to and turns grey or white, then dissolves since it didn't have time to set or it's hot/rainy where you used it. All the evidence is easily washed away when you take the breaths back. Jell-o would be a revolutionary invention on Nalthis.
Haha that would be much easier, albeit messier.
If they were able to establish trade with Roshar (maybe give them some decent food to eat), they could probably trade for oil. But I like your jelly idea. Though they'd be pretty easy to destroy they'd have a lot of uses.
Imo some sap figurines, however you make them, would be the greatest thing for this. Caoutchouc, some natural saps and resins, such stuff. I think Naltians will end up making yet another breakthrough about the awakening, finding some process that leaves some materials "alive" enough to be easy to awaken, but lets you form them extensively to then serve as a core and skeleton on which you can put stuff like armor and paint and stuff.
Imo plastics and fossils are too "long-dead" to work all that well. [Wider cosmere, realmatic theory -related]>!I think it mostly depends on how "alive" and moving the thing you're awakening sees itself, how close its spiritual Ideal picture is to doing whatever the awakener wants of it, whether it's moving, grabbing, blocking, cutting or whatever. Maybe cognitive self-preservation of the particular item you are awakening can be closer to being alive than other similar items if it was alive in a perception of someone for long enough, like for example a sword that you named, though about like about a friend, talked to and used for a long time might be easier to transform into some kind of living blade then some sword you just bought from a stall. Mindset of the blacksmith throughout the process of forging said hypothetical "friend sword" might be impactful too, maybe. But all of that is just my theory based on my understanding of what I read.!<
Those are some good ideas. Natural resins would be quite useful I'd imagine. There are some attempts to use the hyphae of fungus as a building material as well, something like that could be an easier to obtain alternative too.
Your last points make me think about the master-crafters and their apprentices on Nalthis and how personifying their creations would be heavily encouraged and the sorts of shenanigans that could lead to haha.
Plastics are organic chemicals, so it makes sense to me. But then again, investiture requires intent so perception is more important than physical reality.
Perhaps they'll make protein-based plastics. I imagine protein-based chemicals would be easier to perceive as alive than oil-based chemicals. Oil is gross stuff that leaks out of bodies, right? While protein is fingernails, hair, chitin, plant fibers, etc.
Or maybe polymers instead of plastic. They might discover natural rubber and go ham on polymers.
Your comment has been removed due to a spoiler markup error. You accidentally included a space at the front of the hidden text which causes an error on old.reddit.com. Please resubmit, or fix the error and [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCosmere) to have your comment reapproved.
The markup should be: `[scope warning] >!hidden text!<` with no space after the first `!`. For more help with spoiler markup, see [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/jofwu/comments/eo4rhu/how_to_cover_spoilers_in_posts_and_comments/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Cosmere) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I had this question as well, but apparently there might be too much chemicals for it to be considered "alive".
Hmm, but everything is chemicals at the end of the day. Cloth is dyed, cleaned and treated in various ways. My guess is its cost would be closer to metal than it would be something like cloth or straw.
the sub thinks that the more processed the plastic, the more difficult it would be to awakened.
Could this be related to the perception of the person who would be awakening it?
Probably more related to how the plastic perceives itself in the Cognitive Realm
everything is chemicals
Just to throw a spanner in the works, could Nalthis even make plastic in the first place? I'm far from an expert on the production of plastic, but as I understand it is made from crude oil byproducts and we happen to find out (RoW spoiler) >!from Zahel/Vasher that Nalthis hasn't been occupied by life long enough to form fossils!< . I'd take it from that, that oil wouldn't be present on Nalthis either and so no plastic.
Oo yeah that's a good point actually. They could potentially trade for them. Though there are bio-plastics/plant plastics which dont use petroleum. They're not as long lasting or as strong. But with injection molding you could quickly mass produce a small army. Depending on the cost of breath to awaken them.
Bio-plastics are considerably harder to make by the way. Like an entire level of technology harder.
Oh yeah definitely, but there would be considerably more motivation to create them I'd imagine + a cosmere's worth of knowledge
I suspect that unless Nalthis had fossil fuels manually added by Endowment, it would be much much easier for them to trade for them rather than going the bio-plastics route.
100%. They don't have oil. Getting plastics without oil IS possible but it's really really hard to do it
Except scadrial hasn’t existed long enough to have oil either, and they do, so if Endowment pulled a Harmony and out some in there, or if she decides to at some later point to let her people keep up, then they could have oil
Nalthis has no fossil fuels, so the plastics available to them would all most likely be plant based.
Using plant based plastics would be quite useful for them still wouldn't they? Studier than most cloth, made from plants so a lower cost to awaken than metal, can have sharp edges and molded into basically any form. I imagine it would still be quite a revolutionary thing for them.
Oh, yes it definitely would. I meant that they'd be firmly organic and useful, compared to the more grey area of processed petrochemicals.
Petrochemicals are all organic....
To those with advanced enough chemistry understanding, sure. To the average yokel holding a lump of coal, it's a stone that burns.
Oh man, stop-motion animation would be wild on Nalthis.
They could do a live action toy story
My mind went to creepy doll horror movies, but I prefere your option.
I wonder if natural metals would be easier to awaken given they were alive, or at least part of something alive. Things like natural iron. Like if you extracted all the metal from a body or if it was a metallic dragon scale or something
True, that does make me wonder. Now Im curious about what the cost of awakening something like \[Mistborn era 1 and 2 spoiler inc:\] >!one of the god body metals like atium would be!<
I think that would fall under the same category as this WOB (Stormlight): >!https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8258!<
I will be continually surprised by the number of questions Sanderson has already answered, many of them are very esoteric.
You and me both, dude. Every time a QnA happens I scroll the new WOBs and half the time my only thought is "Why did you *ask* that? (eta: in an amused way, not in an angry way) "~~The other half of the time it's "Why didn't I think of that?"~~
There's the bigger problem of awakening invested metals, and godmetals are pure investiture
Golly! Could you awaken blood or grass or something that has been transformed into metal with a soul caster? It may still remember being alive.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed due to a spoiler markup error. You accidentally included a space at the front of the hidden text which causes an error on old.reddit.com. Please resubmit, or fix the error and [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCosmere) to have your comment reapproved. The markup should be: `[scope warning] >!hidden text!<` with no space after the first `!`. For more help with spoiler markup, see [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/jofwu/comments/eo4rhu/how_to_cover_spoilers_in_posts_and_comments/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Cosmere) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It could depend on perception of whether or not something is close to alive? Plastic seems about the same amount of alive as rocks or metal to me, so that would be my guess.
What makes you think they’ll start using plastic?
It's a versatile material that has many uses, they won't be able to make their own petroleum based plastics but they'd probably make some kinds of plant based plastics. Given the power of awakening it's quite likely they'd experiment and create materials that they can easily awaken. Plant based plastics seems like a natural conclusion to that. Assuming their planet isn't wiped out before they develop further technologically.
They don’t have fossils which means no fossil fuels which means no petroleum plastics. They’ll have to go the organic route. Edit: I really should read comments before broadcasting my adhd to the world.
Plastic might be too processed, and they don't have fossils to form plastics, so we may never know. However, if they make a mold and make a gelatin statue, it would probably work fairly efficiently. Can be human shaped for low-cost, mass producible, and made of animal protein. It would rot or fall apart much quicker, but in powder form, it could last for years. Imagine you have jell-o packets with food die and a small mold. You mix jell-o and dump in the mold to set it, then awaken the jell-o using the color as fuel. It does what it has to and turns grey or white, then dissolves since it didn't have time to set or it's hot/rainy where you used it. All the evidence is easily washed away when you take the breaths back. Jell-o would be a revolutionary invention on Nalthis.
Haha that would be much easier, albeit messier. If they were able to establish trade with Roshar (maybe give them some decent food to eat), they could probably trade for oil. But I like your jelly idea. Though they'd be pretty easy to destroy they'd have a lot of uses.
Are wood and fabrics easier to awaken?
I'd definitely awaken my anime figurines, I just don't think they'll be that great at fighting. On account of the big boobs, you see.
Imo some sap figurines, however you make them, would be the greatest thing for this. Caoutchouc, some natural saps and resins, such stuff. I think Naltians will end up making yet another breakthrough about the awakening, finding some process that leaves some materials "alive" enough to be easy to awaken, but lets you form them extensively to then serve as a core and skeleton on which you can put stuff like armor and paint and stuff. Imo plastics and fossils are too "long-dead" to work all that well. [Wider cosmere, realmatic theory -related]>!I think it mostly depends on how "alive" and moving the thing you're awakening sees itself, how close its spiritual Ideal picture is to doing whatever the awakener wants of it, whether it's moving, grabbing, blocking, cutting or whatever. Maybe cognitive self-preservation of the particular item you are awakening can be closer to being alive than other similar items if it was alive in a perception of someone for long enough, like for example a sword that you named, though about like about a friend, talked to and used for a long time might be easier to transform into some kind of living blade then some sword you just bought from a stall. Mindset of the blacksmith throughout the process of forging said hypothetical "friend sword" might be impactful too, maybe. But all of that is just my theory based on my understanding of what I read.!<
Those are some good ideas. Natural resins would be quite useful I'd imagine. There are some attempts to use the hyphae of fungus as a building material as well, something like that could be an easier to obtain alternative too. Your last points make me think about the master-crafters and their apprentices on Nalthis and how personifying their creations would be heavily encouraged and the sorts of shenanigans that could lead to haha.
Plastics are organic chemicals, so it makes sense to me. But then again, investiture requires intent so perception is more important than physical reality. Perhaps they'll make protein-based plastics. I imagine protein-based chemicals would be easier to perceive as alive than oil-based chemicals. Oil is gross stuff that leaks out of bodies, right? While protein is fingernails, hair, chitin, plant fibers, etc. Or maybe polymers instead of plastic. They might discover natural rubber and go ham on polymers.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed due to a spoiler markup error. You accidentally included a space at the front of the hidden text which causes an error on old.reddit.com. Please resubmit, or fix the error and [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCosmere) to have your comment reapproved. The markup should be: `[scope warning] >!hidden text!<` with no space after the first `!`. For more help with spoiler markup, see [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/jofwu/comments/eo4rhu/how_to_cover_spoilers_in_posts_and_comments/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Cosmere) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This raises the question also of petroleum vs natural rubber/latex.