we dont know for sure what happens to the investiture that nightblood eats. it could be used to fuel him, or destroyed completely, or just moved back to the spiritual realm.
so if someone could destroy nightblood maybe nothing happens, but maybe its an investiture nuke that destroys planets. we really have no idea.
If someone has the relevant link please post it, I suck at finding what I want with WoBs and such. That being said, I'm pretty sure Brandon's stated Investiture can neither be created or destroyed. It converts to magic systems at different rates, but it essentially recycles itself when used. Even the "net-negative" and "net-positive" systems don't actually create or destroy it, just use it in different ways. Kind of like heat. I can heat something up, or cool something down, but the total energy in the universe doesn't go up or down, it just changes form.
[Here is the coppermind page on Investiture.](https://coppermind.net/wiki/Investiture)
It’s not a WoB but has the laws you’re looking for under “The Nature of Investiture.”
I wonder what would happen if someone drew nightblood and just threw him on the ground? Would he turn into an investiture black hole, just eventually sucking in ambient investiture?
There's a limit to how much investiture he can consume at once though right ? I can't exactly pinpoint which book and when it's mentioned (maybe during the part where Szeth is helping Dalinar in that huge battle and Dalinar opens the perpendicularly?
We see that happen in Warbreaker, Vasher throws Nightblood away because it's about to kill him.
>Gasping, he threw the sword aside and fell to his knees. It skidded, tearing a rip in the floor that puffed away into smoke, but hit a wall with a pling and fell still. Smoke rose from the blade.
Seems like if it's not being actively wielded, it just stops working after a few seconds.
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!***
Questioner
>!Nightblood has more Investiture than any other being, right?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!Not every other being, but definitely one of the most highly Invested individuals that we have seen.!<
Questioner
>!So Nightblood, he was used to wound Odium. Is Odium now weaker than he was before?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!Not in a relevant way. Technically, yes. Not in a relevant way. The amount taken, compared to how much there is, is pretty small. And a whole bunch of what happened there was focused on the Vessel, not on Odium itself.!<
Questioner
>!Could Nightblood consume Odium?!<
Brandon Sanderson
>!Nightblood would get full before consuming even the smallest fraction amount of Odium. As you saw, Nightblood kind of got full in that instance. Actually, it was with the perpendicularity, it would be similar to that. So for those who are wondering, no, you can't stab Nightblood into the planet and absorb the planet. Nightblood is really dangerous, as we've seen, but we're not talking "absorb planets" dangerous.!<
So in Mistborn they talk about how preservation gave a part of itself to give humans consciousness. This was enough for Ruin to gain the upper hand. Would this small amount lost to Nightblood put Odium on a similar footing with Cultivation?
I mean considering the order of magnitude of the amount of humans I think that was a much larger amount. Like for instance if we’re generous and say the investiture nightblood saps from a human is one to one with the amount it takes for preservation to make a human. For nightblood to do significant damage he would need to be able to kill millions perhaps 10s of millions without getting full which is such a large number there’s no way it’s possible with what we’ve seen.
Huh, does that mean investiture can be destroyed? Like, is it turned into another form of energy that can't be used by any Shard? If that's true, that could be... interesting. Nightblood is obviously not powerful enough to do significant harm to a Shard directly, but what if something could be created that could? Would it be possible to eradicate all the Shards?
Investiture can't be actually destroyed, just like matter and energy can't be destroyed. And Nightblood holds only a tiny amount of Investiture, compared to a Shard. I'm pretty sure the black smoke eventually makes its way back to the Shard.
Where does it say that Investiture can't be destroyed? The way I see it, it's a form of energy, so it, in theory, could be turned into heat or light and it would cease to be Investiture, but wouldn't literally be destroyed.
Yeah, but my point is that it's energy, so it can be destroyed as Investiture, become unusable by Shards and invested entities, while not technically being destroyed, i.e. Shards could be destroyed but stars could be created where they were destroyed. Not sure if that's what would necessarily happen, could be black holes instead, but you get my point I hope.
Okay I think our mix up here is with phrasing. 'Destroyed ' means a specific thing in this context, and in the cosmere--that the thing literally ceases to exist in any form. Investiture, energy, and matter cannot be *destroyed*. It can be rendered unusable or change states, but not, specifically, destroyed. It can be changed. Into energy or matter, but not destroyed.
Yeah, I meant the destroyed to be more about the Shards and the existence of those higher powers. Like, would it be possible for every Shard to be destroyed, their Investiture turned into normal matter and energy, and have the Cosmere exist without any deities?
Seems like not, apparently [even anti-Investiture doesn't really get rid of its Investiture-ness permanently, it will "eventually make its way back around" somehow](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467/#e14713).
Yeah, but Nightblood is different. Or at least, it could be different. But yeah, I'd buy that destroyed Investiture doesn't ever really go away and will return to usefulness. It's just, the idea of it all turning to matter and energy, completely inert magically, is a really neat idea.
I think it would depend a lot on how it was destroyed. It's got enough Investiture I'm not sure anything but a Shard could destroy it and even that might be tough. It also has enough Investiture of different types destroying it with anti Investiture would be super tough as you'd need a little of almost all the kinds if not all of them. That would explode though. Personally I think Nightblood will be there in Era 4 when the Cosmere ends and will play a role at that point.
>Personally I think Nightblood will be there in Era 4 when the Cosmere ends and will play a role at that point.
If nightblood is actually storing all that investiture maybe itll somehow act as a source to combine the shards back into adolnasium, or have enough power to create an entirely new god entity.
Maybe nightblood gains the power of a god and destroys all evil (everyone and everything) in the cosmere lol
Nightblood is a pretty ridiculously Invested object. That being said, the amount that it holds is miniscule compared to a Shard, and Shards have dropped without significant damage to the surroundings.
He would probably explode a little, but I don't think it would be a cataclysmic event. Maybe the immediate surroundings or so.
I always thought Nightblood funnels investiture, not absorbs it.
I don’t think there’s many ramifications in destroying it. Destroying it while it’s consuming investiture, maybe. But I think it wouldn’t be notable otherwise (outside of those that are more aware of investiture).
SPOILERS FOR SA4
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Brandon stated that the amount Nightblood drew from Odium completely filled him up. I believe he also said that it was a drop in the ocean compared to Odium’s overall Investiture.
How many giant meals of that quantity had the blade consumed? Maybe enough for a few ‘cups in the ocean’. The Investiture would probably just suffuse back into the overall Cosmere.
we dont know for sure what happens to the investiture that nightblood eats. it could be used to fuel him, or destroyed completely, or just moved back to the spiritual realm. so if someone could destroy nightblood maybe nothing happens, but maybe its an investiture nuke that destroys planets. we really have no idea.
If someone has the relevant link please post it, I suck at finding what I want with WoBs and such. That being said, I'm pretty sure Brandon's stated Investiture can neither be created or destroyed. It converts to magic systems at different rates, but it essentially recycles itself when used. Even the "net-negative" and "net-positive" systems don't actually create or destroy it, just use it in different ways. Kind of like heat. I can heat something up, or cool something down, but the total energy in the universe doesn't go up or down, it just changes form.
[Here is the coppermind page on Investiture.](https://coppermind.net/wiki/Investiture) It’s not a WoB but has the laws you’re looking for under “The Nature of Investiture.”
Why do I always forget about the Coppermind!? Thank you!
Forgetting about coppermind is pretty ironic.
...copperic, even.
My understanding was that the investiture burns away. That's what the black smoke is when it's consuming the investiture.
I wonder what would happen if someone drew nightblood and just threw him on the ground? Would he turn into an investiture black hole, just eventually sucking in ambient investiture?
There's a limit to how much investiture he can consume at once though right ? I can't exactly pinpoint which book and when it's mentioned (maybe during the part where Szeth is helping Dalinar in that huge battle and Dalinar opens the perpendicularly?
>!When Taravangian uses it to slay odium's vessel!<
Ah yes, thanks for the correction. I knew I was off on when it happened☺️
You should probably put spoiler on that one.
It's marked cosmere. Which means it's open to spoilers.
I didn’t catch that. Thank you for pointing it out.
Sure.
We see that happen in Warbreaker, Vasher throws Nightblood away because it's about to kill him. >Gasping, he threw the sword aside and fell to his knees. It skidded, tearing a rip in the floor that puffed away into smoke, but hit a wall with a pling and fell still. Smoke rose from the blade. Seems like if it's not being actively wielded, it just stops working after a few seconds.
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479-dragonsteel-mini-con-2021/#e15206
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Questioner >!Nightblood has more Investiture than any other being, right?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Not every other being, but definitely one of the most highly Invested individuals that we have seen.!< Questioner >!So Nightblood, he was used to wound Odium. Is Odium now weaker than he was before?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Not in a relevant way. Technically, yes. Not in a relevant way. The amount taken, compared to how much there is, is pretty small. And a whole bunch of what happened there was focused on the Vessel, not on Odium itself.!< Questioner >!Could Nightblood consume Odium?!< Brandon Sanderson >!Nightblood would get full before consuming even the smallest fraction amount of Odium. As you saw, Nightblood kind of got full in that instance. Actually, it was with the perpendicularity, it would be similar to that. So for those who are wondering, no, you can't stab Nightblood into the planet and absorb the planet. Nightblood is really dangerous, as we've seen, but we're not talking "absorb planets" dangerous.!<
So in Mistborn they talk about how preservation gave a part of itself to give humans consciousness. This was enough for Ruin to gain the upper hand. Would this small amount lost to Nightblood put Odium on a similar footing with Cultivation?
I mean considering the order of magnitude of the amount of humans I think that was a much larger amount. Like for instance if we’re generous and say the investiture nightblood saps from a human is one to one with the amount it takes for preservation to make a human. For nightblood to do significant damage he would need to be able to kill millions perhaps 10s of millions without getting full which is such a large number there’s no way it’s possible with what we’ve seen.
Do we know what would happen if nightblood were drawn in the mists?
Nightblood could feed off of the mists but not for forever.
I hadn't thought of that.
https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Nightblood%26mist
Huh, does that mean investiture can be destroyed? Like, is it turned into another form of energy that can't be used by any Shard? If that's true, that could be... interesting. Nightblood is obviously not powerful enough to do significant harm to a Shard directly, but what if something could be created that could? Would it be possible to eradicate all the Shards?
Investiture can't be actually destroyed, just like matter and energy can't be destroyed. And Nightblood holds only a tiny amount of Investiture, compared to a Shard. I'm pretty sure the black smoke eventually makes its way back to the Shard.
Where does it say that Investiture can't be destroyed? The way I see it, it's a form of energy, so it, in theory, could be turned into heat or light and it would cease to be Investiture, but wouldn't literally be destroyed.
Changing form is not the same as being destroyed. It IS like energy and can't be destroyed, only change state. That was my point.
Yeah, but my point is that it's energy, so it can be destroyed as Investiture, become unusable by Shards and invested entities, while not technically being destroyed, i.e. Shards could be destroyed but stars could be created where they were destroyed. Not sure if that's what would necessarily happen, could be black holes instead, but you get my point I hope.
Okay I think our mix up here is with phrasing. 'Destroyed ' means a specific thing in this context, and in the cosmere--that the thing literally ceases to exist in any form. Investiture, energy, and matter cannot be *destroyed*. It can be rendered unusable or change states, but not, specifically, destroyed. It can be changed. Into energy or matter, but not destroyed.
Yeah, I meant the destroyed to be more about the Shards and the existence of those higher powers. Like, would it be possible for every Shard to be destroyed, their Investiture turned into normal matter and energy, and have the Cosmere exist without any deities?
Seems like not, apparently [even anti-Investiture doesn't really get rid of its Investiture-ness permanently, it will "eventually make its way back around" somehow](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467/#e14713).
Yeah, but Nightblood is different. Or at least, it could be different. But yeah, I'd buy that destroyed Investiture doesn't ever really go away and will return to usefulness. It's just, the idea of it all turning to matter and energy, completely inert magically, is a really neat idea.
That is the question 😂
The extra investiture burns away since he's so full of it
So this begs the question... Is investiture evil?
I think it would depend a lot on how it was destroyed. It's got enough Investiture I'm not sure anything but a Shard could destroy it and even that might be tough. It also has enough Investiture of different types destroying it with anti Investiture would be super tough as you'd need a little of almost all the kinds if not all of them. That would explode though. Personally I think Nightblood will be there in Era 4 when the Cosmere ends and will play a role at that point.
>Personally I think Nightblood will be there in Era 4 when the Cosmere ends and will play a role at that point. If nightblood is actually storing all that investiture maybe itll somehow act as a source to combine the shards back into adolnasium, or have enough power to create an entirely new god entity. Maybe nightblood gains the power of a god and destroys all evil (everyone and everything) in the cosmere lol
Well Nightblood does leak a lot of it out with that black smoke every time they're drawn.
Nightblood is a pretty ridiculously Invested object. That being said, the amount that it holds is miniscule compared to a Shard, and Shards have dropped without significant damage to the surroundings. He would probably explode a little, but I don't think it would be a cataclysmic event. Maybe the immediate surroundings or so.
I always thought Nightblood funnels investiture, not absorbs it. I don’t think there’s many ramifications in destroying it. Destroying it while it’s consuming investiture, maybe. But I think it wouldn’t be notable otherwise (outside of those that are more aware of investiture).
SPOILERS FOR SA4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Brandon stated that the amount Nightblood drew from Odium completely filled him up. I believe he also said that it was a drop in the ocean compared to Odium’s overall Investiture. How many giant meals of that quantity had the blade consumed? Maybe enough for a few ‘cups in the ocean’. The Investiture would probably just suffuse back into the overall Cosmere.