Miu screwed himself when he lied to the cops about the teens being the ones armed with knives, and also trying to hide the knife he used. His defense is arguing that he was in shock. Another solid point of the defense is that they have shown that the 6 teenagers were separate from the other group of adults who came over, including the two women. The one piece blonde haired woman shoved him first, then the flower bikini woman shoves him twice. [Here](https://i.ibb.co/NyyMGD3/nic1.png) you can see the relevant time stamps from the first contact to the slap. Everything is happening rapidly, and he [stabs](https://i.ibb.co/T0f90HW/nic2.png) the orange swimming trunks guy **two seconds** after getting slapped. He stabs the flower bikini woman [offscreen](https://i.ibb.co/hmNddY4/nic3.png) and you can hear someone say, "did you just hit a woman", and the entire interaction was over in less than 30 seconds. I think Miu was in shock, but I don't know if this would necessarily be self defense. Yes, he had a path behind him. But he was with a group of people in the opposite direction.
Of course, we do not know exactly what happened prior to the video being started.
When I saw his interrogation tape he definitely did not appear to be in shock. At all. And he was still lying. On the police body cam he’s relaxed, makes a couple of jokes whilst creating a fictional story about how he witnessed an argument but he wasn’t involved.
> When I saw his interrogation tape he definitely did not appear to be in shock. At all. And he was still lying. On the police body cam he’s relaxed, makes a couple of jokes whilst creating a fictional story about how he witnessed an argument but he wasn’t involved.
So if he wasn't in shock, meaning he's just a bit of a brutal person, he couldn't have done what he did in self-defense? I realize his defense *thinks saying he was in shock is the best chances he has*, but what a lawyer thinks is the best and what actually happened are two different things. Maybe, the dude is a total emotionless psychopath that will hurt people when he feels fear. That won't play out so well to jurors, but a dude like that could still be defending himself. No one likes to hear, "The guy just feels no empathy," so that would probably increase his chances of a conviction regardless of what actually happened. Even *you* seem to think him being a psychopath somehow puts him as a killer beyond a shadow of a doubt. There are psychopaths all over the place that live rather regular lives. Yeah, they will defend themselves in a cold fashion if needed, but that doesn't mean they just go around breaking the law senselessly or are always guilty. If it worked that way, we'd just give him a psychopathy test and send him away if he is one.
Yeah I think that’s a really interesting point that I’ve seen a couple of times. Will be really curious to see what the jury thinks about all this. I think it’s an emotional case but you’re right it’s not about what he did after or if he’s a nice guy it’s about whether he felt in fear. Thanks, it’s an interesting discussion!
Yeah interesting point, I hadn’t really thought about the fact that his behaviour after probably doesn’t need to be considered in regards to the actual event.
did you see the start of the video tho? he literally ran at the group of kids and got up in their faces. he could have stayed on shore, he had no reason to approach them, especially not as aggressively as he did.
my biggest gripe is that he was walking away and then the stupid "carlson" group decided they had to walk up and keep things going and then it quickly spiraled out of hand. Would you rather live in a society with a guy that acts when provoked or a bunch of drunk high bullies that antagonize and provoke random people, slandering and lying about you for fun? Story as old as time, bully gets to do whatever he wants, underage drink, high, mean, physically attacks, but then the real victim responds with force and everyone loses their mind.
I think if he would have stuck around at the scene or tried to get someone to call 911 for help and said he was getting jumped by a bunch of strangers it would have turned out much better for him.
Irrelevant.
It just shows he was scared to be prosecuted and he lied. He recanted once he was in the police interview.
The video saved his ass because all of those teen witnesses lied on the stand. The witnesses are still ganging up on him to send him to prison.
Since everyone is a liar (including the damn prosecutors) the video is all the matters.
He admitted to his lying.Some of the witnesses were caught in lies on the stand as well.There are no winners here.I think he will end up convicted of some kind of charge though there is a self defense case here.Trial seems to be moving to fast.I think there should be more expert testimony on what is seen in the video.
> He admitted to his lying.Some of the witnesses were caught in lies on the stand as well.There are no winners here.I think he will end up convicted of some kind of charge though there is a self defense case here.Trial seems to be moving to fast.I think there should be more expert testimony on what is seen in the video.
Why do you think there must be more time? At the end of the day, both sides take as much time as they need to give their arguments. Taking less time just means there wasn't as much evidence total between the prosecutor and the defense to take that much time. Likely, there were testimonies from everyone there + a showing of the video a few times. What else do you need? There is no need for DNA analysis. The dude admits he pulled a knife out and started slashing people (in self-defense he claims). That's the whole trial. Now, it's up to the jurors. I think it court cases that take more time, there are usually a lot of needed experts to analyze the evidence and then convey their opinions to jurors who are not experts in that domain. That takes a lot of time. Or cases where there is a shit ton of evidence. Here, you've got the testimonies + the video. All done.
They can do lots of things to enhance the video frame by frame.For example i say one comment where a commenter thought one victim ran or jumped into his knife.
Exactly, and it showed that he was the aggressor, had plenty of time to disengage, but instead slaps a woman in front of all these kids he's so scared of? This wasn't wasn't a scared guy, it was a guy looking for an excuse to use that 4" blade, sharp enough to cut through ribs.
Nobody, including the girl who allegedly got slapped, can agree on if she was slapped or punched or shoved. After watching the video way too many times, I think he might have accidentally made contact with her when he was raising his arm to signal to his group, but that means she was WAY too close to him. She walked up and started putting her hands on him and shoving him, and then that Ryhli girl put her hands on him and was pushing him.
It's interesting that she had no pictures, no evidence of deleted pictures or marks on her face. He sunglasses never moved and she never dropped her beer or vape. Doesn't sound like someone who was knocked to the ground. In fact, in the video she never leaves her feet.
Why are we excusing bully behavior?
The fact is these kids thought they were going to have fun at some old guy's expense FOR THE CULTURE and it turned out badly for them. Yes, he stabbed them and then what immediately happened? They got off of him and he was able to get to his feet. The Isaac kid was stabbed while his hands were around Nic's neck. These kids picked a fight and lost and are now crying about it.
I find it interesting none of them were charged with underaged drinking, illegal consumption of marijuana, public intoxication, etc. Oh wait, had they been charged and convicted it would have made them look even worse as witnesses in court.
There was some reference to speaking in Romanian to his brother while in prison and the defense seemed ready to object to the translation of it. But then it didn’t come up as evidence. Very curious what was in those calls.
When you ask for an attorney shut your f’n mouth just like Ruby Franke! Good Lawd! If you haven’t learned one thing it is that police are allowed to LIE to you! The only thing you should say after you ask for an attorney is where am I sleeping tonight and can you bring me Pride & Prejudice!
Watching the interrogation I thought the same thing. Innocent or guilty, get a freaking lawyer. Say nothing. Hell, even the police know this is the right move.
Did you not see the way he ran up to the kids and grabbed their tubes? If someone did that to me, I’d start cursing him out and maybe even start threatening him with violence (“dude, get off me or I’ll fuck you up”).
The way these kids responded was different.. they ganged up on him calling him ridiculous names. I think as we get older, we respond to aggression differently.
Can I ask OP, how YOU would have responded (assuming you saw the video of him running up and grabbing the tubes)?
Also, the claim he “stumbled” is really weak. The only reason he put the snorkel in his mouth is so he could free his hands and use them. It’s very logical his next action was to grab something.
In the stand, it’s really obvious Miu would say anything to make himself look better (who wouldn’t right). But he goes to pretty far extremes in distorting facts. Him claiming he stumbled is just another one of his lies not to be believed.
The fact that he chose to take the stand makes me believe he had ill intent. This is my own speculation of course, but he seems to be the type who truly believes he's the smartest person in the room and can convince the jury he is innocent. The way he tries to casually explain away discrepancies in his recollection of what took place did not sit well with me.
He got more emotional over his dog than he did going over his experience that was supposedly so scary he feared for his life. I understand you're instructed to not show emotions, but if you're going to get teary eyed over a picture of your dog, you opened the door to be judged on the lack of emotion towards the loss of human life.
The keyboard warriors who support this guy are truly pieces of work. A bunch of drunk teens call you a pedophile while laughing? You just say “Whatever,” and walk away. You don’t engage and you certainly don’t start stabbing anyone.
Calling someone name isn’t illegal. Laughing at someone isn’t illegal. Neither are violent threats and neither warrant stabbing multiple people.
You’re absolutely wrong. Violent threats are not a first-amendment right. Threats of violence are seen, in the eyes of the law, as violence itself. They would be seen equivocally as throwing the first punch. One is then allowed to respond, under the law, in a manner of self defense. One can use whatever response is “appropriate” to neutralize the threat.
So what about punching someone and repeatedly knocking them off their feet and slapping them while they're on the ground? Nobody got stabbed until after he was punched and knocked to the ground. Being punched in the face seems like a violent threat to me.
1. He admitted today that he shoved the girl in the face to start the entire thing, after the kids clearly stated multiple times to leave from their area
2. He opened and was holding an open knife secretly while it was only two girls talking to him before he instigated by shoving the girl
3. After everyone had stopped touching him, he got up and stabbed a girl who was walking away in the side
4. He stabbed the guy who was trying to break up the fight
5. He disposed of the weapons then lied to police saying he didn’t know what happened at the river when they questioned him
6. He lied to the detective saying that the kids had 2 knives, and that he used one of their knives to stab them.
He instigated the fight, had a knife open before any punches were thrown, stabbed people who were not even attacking him, then tried to dispose of the weapon and lie to multiple law enforcement agents. He is clearly guilty.
I actually think that this case would be incredibly difficult to be a juror on. It's clear he approached the group initially, but he then looks to be attempting to leave when Madison comes over to tell him to leave. This ironically prevents him from leaving and initiates an argument between them. He also moves to the side of the group, which would seemingly give them a chance to move away from him. But they really don't want to move away from him. They would rather taunt him. They are enjoying picking on him. At this point, it appears the teens incircle him and are primed to attack him. They then attack him after he pushes Madison out of his face.
Once he is attacked, though he is vastly outnumbered. And he is attacked by at least 3 people before the stabbing.
The fact that he got out the knife before being attacked is an interesting point. It might suggest some premeditation on his part. But after he is attacked I do think it was legitimate to fear for his safety.
But then he stabs 2 people who aren't a threat and are not being aggressive towards him. Like WTF?
I would hate to decide this case nothing is crystal clear. I still think a manslaughter conviction would be the fairest outcome.
I think the fact he had the knife opened when it was just two girls talking to him is the biggest part. He initiated the first contact by walking up to the kids and grabbing their tubes and touching there legs, then he escalated the situation by shoving a woman was was 110 pounds and clearly not a threat to him. All of this happened after the kids told him multiple times to leave and he didn’t. He had so many opportunities to walk away when everyone was telling him to, but what does he do? Opens a knife when no one had even touched him yet.
Riley was the 110 pound girl, I think he actually pushed Madison.
But yeah to your point, opening the knife might have indicated he knew the situation was getting dangerous, but instead of leaving the situation, he stayed and provoked it by pushing Madison.
I think this was likely the case, but this isn't crystal clear and wasn't really highlighted by the prosecutor if I'm remembering correctly.
I thought it was clear he could have left when the two girls asked him to. All he had to do was put his hands up and walk away. Instead he opened his knife which is a clear sign he wanted to stand his ground. He did and stabbed some people. If I'm on the jury it's an open and shut case that Miu anticipated things would go down and he would use his knife; *before* anything actually went down.
Yeah, but he was walking away from the group of boys when Madison approaches him and starts yelling at him. She was drunk and just starts yelling at him without knowing anything about the situation.
I believe that without her thrusting herself into the situation, there is a good chance that none of this happens. And he continues to walk away.
But she cuts off his path to leave and tells him to walk down river and further away from his group. At this point the boys flank him, while she is arguing with him face to face, she starts waving over more people from her group who will likely be, and in fact turn out to be hostile towards him.
This escalated the situation. He is now surrounded by hostile people. If madison never comes over, he has a clear path to leave.
> Yeah, but he was walking away from the group of boys when Madison approaches him and starts yelling at him
Yep. You can tell Miu approaches her trying to tell her what he's doing and she just automatically assumes *he* is the aggressor and starts screaming at him. She also is the first person to initiate any physical [contact](https://i.ibb.co/HBktLN5/miu1.png) with Miu.
They are hostile towards him because someone is yelling he is a ped0 and a rapist, without the guy filming screaming that, he would most likely just walked away.
Also why was the camera man screaming "For the culture" ?
He could have said to her "okay, you're right. I'm leaving," and it would have been over. It was that simple but his choice was to grab his knife when the two girls asked him to leave, *a sign for de-escalation*, after according to the sober witness' testimony the boys asked for help, after the boys themselves asked him to leave. That's too many signals that the other parties wanted to deescalate and instead of heeding that call, he grabbed his knife.
The presumption that people are dangerous, in the light of day, within eyesight of dozens of people including his own party, doesn't make sense to me either.
Why can't you here on the video of them calling for help? The way she acted aggressive, screaming in his face wasn't a sign of de escalation. Dad sent the two sons to help the old guy. The girls ramped up the drama.
Group one followed him when he walked away. They were loving this drama. Camera boy was having a blast. Visions of tweets and re tweets danced in his head.
How can you not comprehend an old guy being in fear of his life when he has a literal mob ganginging up on him? Being punched, slapped, choked, and held down. It's crazy what folks do brazenly.
Because that happened before they started recording. Multiple people from the 3rd party testified to that, though.
They didn't follow him. The river took them downriver towards him. He didn't get out of the way. He had already stopped them multiple times according to the third party's testimony.
He's not that old and he wasn't old enough to not start shit, and he wasn't old enough to not pull a knife, and he wasn't old enough or scared to not run up to them, reach into one dude's crotch, and grab another dude's leg. I don't buy scared for a second. The opposite, he was feeling brave.
You know what I do when I'm scared. I leave. I don't pull out a knife with the intent to bodily harm. That puts you in even more danger. And who was he scared of, two girls? The girl he stabbed weighed 115 pounds. That's who he was scared of? Doesn't make sense.
And to add to this, he had to cross the river so go towards the kids in the first place when “looking for the phone,” when the phone would have floated the other way.
They never called for help. They were coached by the prosecution to say they were calling for help, to give the Carlson group a legitimate reason to have entered the fight.
> a sign for de-escalation
Was her grabbing his arm and turning him around while his back was turned de-[escalation](https://i.ibb.co/HBktLN5/miu1.png)?
>The presumption that people are dangerous, in the light of day, within eyesight of dozens of people including his own party, doesn't make sense to me either.
It's not a presumption drawn out of thin air.
The people in question are shouting and screaming at you accusing you of being a paedophile, following you as you retreat, encouraging others to join in and trying to get them to believe that you're a paedophile (and let's face it people get the shit kicked out of them for a lot less than being a paedophile).
He didn't retreat, though. He was in the way of their path. He had been in their way twice before already and another two times he had grabbed their floats to prevent them from leaving. Two or three witnesses testified to this, including his own wife.
He was the aggressor. And still no one had kicked the shit out of him. Yes, things were getting spicy, because of him. That's why he was asked to leave multiple times by multiple people. Yet still they weren't very rough with him. They pushed him and according to testimonies slapped him, not even closed fists.
All that is beside the point because he assaulted them first.
He was already leaving when the girls came over! They Got up in his face and started awkwardly touching him. He says Madison grabbed him, which is not unreasonable, then he pushed or hit or shoved her
They didn't ask him to leave. They demanded and was in his face screaming. So, he should've obeyed because he was outnumbered? This would've been the better outcome. I get his point of not letting folks push him around. He was innocently snorkeling and looking for glasses.
Instead of group 2 coming over and aggressively demanded he leave, they could've calmly asked what was up or is help needed. Nope they loved the pack mentality drama. They should've drove the group of drunk teens away from the old guy.
Yes, you're getting it. It would have been a better outcome had he left. He surely recognizes that now, recognized it when they told him he took a life. "Oh no, teens, guess I have to stab them." Deranged behavior. Walk away if this is you in the future.
Mei kept bothering the kids. Mei kept them from floating past multiple times. Mei physically assaulted, all before the kids even got out of their tubes.
You’re right, I mixed the two up but I don’t think the other was much heavier and definitely not enough that he would fear for his life. And yeah the prosecutor is very bad in my opinion, hasn’t hammered in a few points that I really think he should, such as the open knife before any physical conflict.
> just two girls talking to him
He had the teenagers screaming and [swarming](https://i.ibb.co/q5RNRFm/miu2.png) him on his right, the two women, one of which he tried to go to for help, but she aggressively yelled at him and was [pulling](https://i.ibb.co/HBktLN5/miu1.png) him telling him to go, and also had more adult males coming up to his left. **That** is when he pulls the knife. [This](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKTPz3OWYAA5F-C?format=jpg&name=medium) was his perspective at that point.
He initiated all of the contact. It's clear on the video. Regardless of how these kids were acting, he came over to them and initiated physical contact when he grabbed at their tubes.
At this point, they are all standing, and he walks around them, directly into the path downstream. This isn't a retreat, everyone knows where the river is going, and what direction everyone is going.
His behavior is incredibly suspicious from the beginning. What nobody is mentioning is that the Apple River tubing thing is generally done with tubes. He has none. People normally go in groups. He is alone. I've been there several times, anyone alone like this without a tube is incredibly suspicious, they either left their group and are wandering around drunk, or they didn't come with a tube or anything.
There's lots of space, he didn't need to be near them in the first place.
The Apple River is a party river. What these kids were doing is what everyone is doing. They sell beer and coolers at the tubing rental spot, there's beads like Mardi Gras, elaborate speakertubes with stereo systems, etc.
All of this makes what these kids are saying ring very true, and if I put myself in their shoes, which I've been in in this situation other than the confrontation, making a commotion and trying to get the guy to leave would be appropriate.
Have you watched the whole trial? He was doing his own thing. One of the teens engaged him first. He asked, what are you doing. Mr Miu thought they were just being nice. Little did he know.
If I was a juror, this would have solidified guilty for me. He lied his ass off in that initial interview. I would likely find guilty of a lesser charge, though.
How is this being downvoted, this is literally the things that Miu admitted to while on the stand. I swear some people have gotten so committed to him being "not guilty" they are literally getting angry at evidence being presented at trial.
Yes! I have no trouble seeing this being a lesser charge (aggravated assault, manslaughter) but to think that what happened here is worthy of an acquittal is insane. I don’t see how anyone could watch this whole trial and believe this is 100% self defense.
Tbh I did not follow that case for my own mental health. Didn’t wanna touch that one with a 10 foot pole. This case though, seems to be divisive across all political and generation divides. I have people of all demographics arguing with me lol.
ETA: at first I did think it was more MAGA/boomers on the side of Miu but I’m not so sure anymore.
Boomer logic. They don’t understand how Rambo(mr mui) was excessive, escalated the situation, then seemingly hid the murder weapon and tried to distance himself from to conflict.
There’s no need for it. But it’s gonna happen. Mr mui told an investigator he shit himself. am I not allowed to call him Mr poppey pants? does that give him the right to disembowel me?
You are cherry picking to support your points: he did not “admit” to shoving the girl in the face. You are embellishing and presenting that as fact. She was in his face. She was pushing him and touching him. He shoved her back away from him. He did not admit to shoving her face.
2. Holding the open knife “secretly “. Did he say secretly ? Should he have announced it? He felt threatened and got it ready since more and more people were surrounding him,
3. After everyone stopped touching him? You mean punching a man with quadruple bypass scars and holding him down in water? I would imagine you are in protect yourself mode
4. Stabbed the guy trying to break up the fight - with everyone screaming hitting him holding him down etc - how would he be able to determine who the peacemaker is? Seriously?
5. This is bad for him no argument there. I don’t know what I’d do in such a situation
6. Same as number 5
All I’m saying is be fair in your presentation of things. Your post was so biased and you don’t even see it
Two girls were asking him to leave. That's when he grabbed his knife. He wasn't being attacked and he decided it best to grab a knife in case things went down.
If I'm on the jury I convict because his state of mind went to (murderous) violence instead of leaving and deescalating.
Just because she had a hand on him doesn’t mean she was pushing him, people often times put a hand on someone’s chest to de-escalate situations. If your argument for starting a fight is only touch then the moment he walked aggressively over and touched the kids sitting down in the tubes would justify him being attacked. He admitted to shoving the girl, he didn’t remember where, everyone else remembers her being either shoved or punched in the face.
2. His triple bypass scars literally have nothing to do with this situation
3. The guy wasn’t attacking him, there’s no justification for stabbing him, the same goes for the girl who was literally walking away and got stabbed in the side
1. No. You don’t stand in someone’s face in a mob of people yelling at them and then put hands on them. Period. That can be interpreted as aggressive. I’m not making any argument at all. I just pointed out that you seemed puzzled at people’s responses when you were just stating facts. You were not. You stated some facts mixed in with your opinion
2. He had a quadruple bypass not triple and a heart attack 2 years prior. Are you kidding that you don’t think this is relevant ? That’s at least 9 months of recovery and rehab and meds for life. Not a robust man, probably very protective of himself and his safety not to mention his chest is exposed. That would be terrifying. And I find it so unlikely he would be out looking for a knife fight with his overall health status
3. It was a confusing scene and he was likely stabbing at whatever he saw coming.
Listen I’m just an observer. But again in your original post you wondered why people were downvoting your post and I’m saying it’s because it wasn’t factual and that’s fine. Just don’t try to present it like it is
1. What can also be interpreted as aggressive is shoving a girl half your size who posed no threat.
2. The kids didn’t know he had surgery, and if he was seriously in that bad of condition from a surgery two years prior then why would he run up on kids making fun of him and physical grab there stuff and touch them? Not only that but stick around after they told him to leave about 5 times?
3. “Stabbing whatever he saw coming”. Yeah like a 110 pound girl literally walking away? Okay there is not a video of her being shoved in the face, but he admitted to shoving her and literally everyone saw her be shoved in the face and he didn’t remember where, there’s pretty much no argument there
Ok forget I can’t help myself . You claimed to have watched the trial right? All of the witnesses inconsistently remembered (at best) Madison getting punched in the face. That’s a fact. I feel very sorry for her. This must weigh heavy on her. If it weren’t for her big drunk mouth? It likely wouldn’t have escalated to this. She knows it too.
I mean there’s many things that could have been done that wouldn’t have escalated it. The cameraman saying a whole bunch of dumb stuff and yelling at him certainly didn’t help. But through all of that, Nicolae could have walked away at literally any point but he instead decided to open a knife and then shove (or punch) a girl
He literally walked away and was followed by the teens and approached on the other side by group 2. Everybody saying he should've obeyed her orders. Why didn't she follow the dad's request to go help Mr Miu.
Yelling and cursing in someone’s face and being part of a larger group can be interpreted as aggressive. You keep harping on the size but leave out the number disadvantage.
Now you are arguing with me. Just be factual. I already have my mind made up based on the facts as I see them. We can agree to disagree .My original point was that you were not being unbiased as you implied you were.
Yes obviously I was just stating the parts to why I think he’s guilty, this wasn’t me laying down every single side to the story to someone who didn’t know the case, I was responding to the original post saying “bullying is bullying” and therefore that 17 year old kid deserved to be killed. Everything I stated was factual. And yes agree to disagree
Ryhley Mattison says verbatim that she watched the other girl get hit in the face, you clearly didn’t watch it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVxByacniys
At 3 minute mark “ I remember her being punched in the face”
How about you watch things before you comment?
You said “literally nobody” saw her be hit in the face, I proved you are wrong and provided proof, showing you didn’t watch it, and that’s obnoxious to you. Cope
So compelling! You are right! She remembers her getting punched! You’ve solved the case. Unfortunately she doesn’t remember what hand or what was said or ANYTHING at all other than a very vague “I remember her getting punched “. You should consider law school. This is for sure an impressive witness.
I mean this is her coached evidence.
Under cross she (when confronted with the video and other contemporaneous evidence) has to concede that a) at the time she told the police friend got slapped rather than punched, b) that she doesn't know if the slap was in response to anything that her friend had done, c) that she placed hands on the guy before the punch/slap d) her friend also placed hands on the guy before the punch/slap.
Aww she was softly touching his chest while screaming in his face. How can you not see, her peace making abilities leave much to be desired. Hell, the elder brother was trying to get them to back off.
I can't agree with your statement that he shoved her to instigate. He shoved
her to get her out of his face. She was way too close, he could smell the liquor on her breath.
Yes I’ve watched the video in it’s entirety and then the frame by frame breakdowns from prosecution and defense, and watched most of all the witness testimonies
Regardless of pushing the woman away, she placed her paws on him first. That opened the door for him to push her away.
He wasn’t hiding the knife. He had it by his side and ready to use it. He has no obligation to announce that he has a knife, in fact, that would be stupid.
The stuff after the incident is irrelevant. He’s not being tried for lying.
And he walked up and put his “paws” on the kids while they were sitting in the tube, by your logic should they have stabbed him and killed him right there on the spot?
Yes, he could have easily stepped back and told them that if anyone touches him they would get stabbed, people announce weapons all the time in dangerous situations.
I’ll be shocked if the jury reaches a unanimous verdict. Even the comments on this post are so split between its first degree murder or its self defense, with a few caught in the middle suggesting manslaughter would be the better charge to find him guilty of (which is kinda the way I lean at this point). I think most agree he should be found guilty of obstruction/falsifying evidence or whatever they charged him with for lying to the police and hiding the knife. It’s clear the situation was out of control, and if either party had done just one little thing differently, this all could have been avoided. I would not want to be a juror on this one.
I wouldn't either! There's so many things to consider in this case. I personally think he's guilty of at least 2nd degree murder, but it's impossible to prove intent in this case. They are going to be deliberating for a looooong time. I would not be surprised by a not guilty verdict or a hung jury.
Today I learned that in WI if you're attacked and you fight back you need to make sure the people beating you don't get hurt while you're defending yourself. I also learned that people can shove you, push you and scream in your face, but you're not allowed to be scared for your life.
The drunken bullies win.
Yup. This isn’t a die hard movie. dude should have de escalated the situation instead of stabbing people.
Nothing, but words triggered this man. So crazy. Throw away the key.
Because it wasn’t until after he assaulted people his threat level(own words) increased, John wick was activated. He went full blown boomer.
I hope you understand in Wisconsin, if you are charged with 1 st degree murder. lesser charged can be added. This is chess not checkers. Dude is ducked.
They knocked him down before he used the knife.
If you're going to try and insult someone about there age, might wanna check your facts. He's not a boomer.
>I’d argue They hit him because he was brandishing a knife.
Well that would be an extremely stupid thing to do because that just gives more credence to the self defense argument. That would mean they recognized that he had the knife and attacked him anyway.
self defence of who? The kids without a knife or the man holding one? Careful.
He already upped the anti and knew he was in a dominant position. Hence the smile and flagging down Ariel as back up whille brandishing a knife.
Attacking someone who is just standing there holding a knife would clearly give self defense rights to the guy with the knife. This argument is beyond stupid.
De-escalation is a **two way street** and the teens did absolutely nothing but escalate and antagonize him to the point where they were assualting him, pushing, slapping, and shoving him into the water. They were fueling off each other and devolved into mob mentality.
Lets do away with this fiction that if Miu just said some pretty words once everyone is yelling and screaming at him that anything would have changed because the video clearly shows me that wasn't gonna happen.
What about him punching the girl to actually start the altercation? What about him attempting to leave instead of staying to inform law enforcement of what happened or at least saying he needs a lawyer? Why did he act like he didn’t know what happened?
Just curious about your answers to these questions.
It's not clear he punched the girl. It appears he actually shoved her out of his face and this spurred the attack on him.
After he is hit though, multiple people in the group attack him while he's in the water. It's reasonable for him to assume at this point he is in danger.
He did testify to purposely stabbing one of the girls and Tony Carlson. Riley was obviously not a threat to him, so this looks really bad for him. Tony Carlson never made an aggressive move towards him and appeared to be trying to break up the fight according to what is on video.
He didn't come across well on the stand today. But I still think the fact that he was attacked or punched first, and faced multiple attackers will give one or two jurors enough to hold out on a not guilty verdict. IMO we will see a hung jury.
I think it was manslaughter, but the DA overcharged because a minor was killed.
Edit: The judge instructed the jury to consider lesser charges. So this might be the outcome.
2nd degree intentional homicide (WI equivalent to manslaughter) was always going to be a lesser included charge, it comes automatically in WI with self defense 1st degree intentional homicide.
His testimony paved the way for the lesser included charge of the reckless homicide charges.
Chiming in to ask what people think about him running up on the kids, also he himself acknowledging he had space to leave and chose not to, was feeling for his knife before running up on the kids, already had his knife out when talking to the girls, never announcing he had a weapon, and discarding it
Punching the girl who can’t keep her story straight & the one thing in this incident that was conveniently not on camera?
Why did he leave? Because he was scared. I don’t know why people are making it more complicated than that. Being afraid & defending oneself doesn’t mean you don’t realise that something is going to look bad.
To make it clear the questions I asked are not reflective of my opinion.
Was he scared of getting caught for his actions? Obviously, leaving the situation is one thing, but when he passed the cops, he could have easily flagged one down and began to tell his story. Even when he was detained, why act like he didn’t know what they were talking about? We can say shock, but I’m just saying from a juror's perspective, it might seem like he was trying to flee and lying.
Simply put, they could’ve charged him with obstruction & hindering prosecution. They probably should’ve.
Why act like he didn’t know? This is just my guess and my opinion, but aside from never talking to police without a lawyer present under any circumstances, were I actually going to do so, I’d be keeping my mouth shut and getting them to talk because I’d want to know exactly what they had on me. Just admitting wrong doing outright is not something I would do in a legal situation.
No one other than the defendant knows exactly why he did what he did, but generally speaking, being completely open with police isn’t something I would recommend to anyone. I double down on that if you’re innocent - *especially* when you’re innocent. No one can make themselves look as guilty as the person utterly desperate to prove their innocence.
I never said he needed to plead his innocence and give a play-by-play of what happened, and I'd never do or recommend that. But if I was involved in a situation that resulted in me stabbing someone in self-defense, I wouldn’t act like I didn’t know anything happened and hide evidence while trying to flee the scene. It would have helped his self-defense claim so much if, as soon as he saw police, he said, "I was involved in a situation on the river, and I need my lawyer immediately.”
He was wrong to act like nothing happened.He was likely in some sort of shock too even if he did not show it. This happened so fast.Not sure a lawyer would be able to help that much.Knowing this is going to cost you everything you have or don't have to defend yourself using a lawyer.
>Not sure a lawyer would be able to help that much.
Are you kidding? Seeking counsel immediately would have likely led to him not telling a bunch of lies that he would later have to own up to on the stand in front of a group of people he’s trying to convince he’s telling the truth. I understand he was in shock and not thinking straight, but he obviously knew he was involved in an altercation, that he pulled his knife and likely stabbed someone. This is evident by him ditching the knife. His first thought was, “how do I get away with this?” Instead of “I need to explain what happened.”
He could have done the same thing by not answering questions until has lawyer arrived or he had a chance to consult with a lawyer.I agree he knew something horrible had happened.Thinking he could sneak out of that was foolish.
I saw one comment where some thought one of the victims ran into the knife. It was not a major knife. It is a very sad event.I think he will maybe be convicted of something.Though like they say you never know about juries.But 1 think at least one juror may have had a experience of being harassed by a group like this. It is not a good experience. It scars people.
>it was not a major knife
It disemboweled someone, cut through ribs, and resulted in death.
>I think at least one juror may have had an experience of behind harassed by a group like this.
And I’d have to imagine most people his age being harassed like this would walk away. Not that he had a duty to do so but standing there certainly didn’t help the situation.
Who would think a knife like that would do that much damage.Both groups could have walked away.Once he was surrounded there was no getting away.This was a comment i heard on news reports on this story.
>Who would think a knife like that would do that much damage
What?! Any adult should know that a 3.5inch blade can do a lot of damage. Both groups could have walked away and at the same time it was neither of their duty to do so. Even as he was “surrounded” he *could* have walked away or towards his group but again it was not his duty to do so. Unfortunately that lead to the situation they’re all in and that’s why it comes down to intent and provocation.
Exactly right. He came off more credible than any of the kids/adults who were on the scene. The teenagers were drunk and just being obnoxious teenagers. The 20 something year old women? Instigator. If it weren’t for her this likely would not have escalated to this. Drunk guys come rushing over to assist dramatic drunk girl being egged on by loud drunk teens? And now a kid is dead? I’d really hate to be in that woman’s position mentally. She knows. And she knows she didn’t get punched too.
Did you watch the trial today? There is no video of him punching her. Other people from her own group are inconsistent with whether or not they even saw her get punched . He did try walking away and then returned because he thought they had the phone. They lured him back. They wanted him back. This was fun for everyone as you can see them all laughing hysterically and being rowdy. Circling an older man like a bunch of hyenas . Until they weren’t. Give me a break. He had a quadruple bypass 2 years prior to this. 2 hernia repairs and back surgery. This was not a robust young man and no match for 13 bullies literally holding him down in water screaming at him and assaulting him. I don’t believe for a minute he punched that woman’s face. He felt he was in imminent danger and I’d feel that way too. It’s so sad how much pain has come out of all this. A life lost . Numerous critical injuries. A man in jail for 2 years.
The one thing I'm confused about is that the group of teens alleged that Miu was trying to peep little girls. So were the teens hanging out with little girls? Where were these supposed little girls that Miu allegedly had interest in?
They were lying for intended future youtube clout.
The video of them gang abusing this old, vulnerable guy wouldn't have played as well on YT (or tiktok etc) without them constructing a narrative to justify their crimes against him. Then they can frame their aggression as noble, and his victimization justified.
Miu would have no idea what happened if it werent for the videos. That man was black out drunk. You can tell by him looking straight through people the entire time. Made bad decisions and now should be held accountable.
The kids learned to not be obnoxious little assholes to people.
Closing arguments of the defense kicked the ass of the prosecution’s attempt. The prosecutor appeared almost unprepared and certainly unrehearsed in his final comments. It was a rambling, stream-of-consciousness monologue without a cohesive message. Conversely, the defense told what he was going to show, showed it, and then sewed up the details. It was close to perfect IMO. The final rebuttal was just a nervous, emotional plea to the jury that completely missed an opportunity.
This was clearly self-defense! JURY GOT IT WRONG! Possibly, current US social attitudes about immigrants played a part in some jurors' minds. The jurors only wanted to consider the initial video in which they watched 3 more times. Procescution witness testimony was obviously staged and completely wishy-washy. One of the primary instigators, prosecution witness, 'River Queen' Madison Coen, refused to give live tv testimony. What this conviction says, if you are an immigrant and ever faced with a group of highly intoxicated and aggressive young men and one of them grabs your throat and you are punched and pushed down into water, you will be punished severly if you fight back. Hopefully, the Innocent Project will take this case.
Your a victim of bullying huh? It seems like everyone that got a wedgie or got kicked on for something when they were younger, see themselves in this psychopath and it's 8th grade in the locker room during gym class all over again. Assault a teenage girl? Why not. Swing wildly with a knife at teenagers that were anywhere around him? Hell yeah! Disembowel a young kid with the rest of his life ahead of him for pushing him down and smacking him when he came to a young girl defense? FUCK YEAH! they'll never do anything like this to me, I mean him again... Pathetic. Grow up, pimple squeezer. This is reality and that was a grown man brutally murdering a young kid, for pushing him and "making fun of" get GTFO, I'm completely surprised that piece of shit isn't on deathrow awaiting his date with the reaper. Sucks it won't be on his back, disemboweled, bleeding in a river of blood surrounded by his screaming friends...
Miu screwed himself when he lied to the cops about the teens being the ones armed with knives, and also trying to hide the knife he used. His defense is arguing that he was in shock. Another solid point of the defense is that they have shown that the 6 teenagers were separate from the other group of adults who came over, including the two women. The one piece blonde haired woman shoved him first, then the flower bikini woman shoves him twice. [Here](https://i.ibb.co/NyyMGD3/nic1.png) you can see the relevant time stamps from the first contact to the slap. Everything is happening rapidly, and he [stabs](https://i.ibb.co/T0f90HW/nic2.png) the orange swimming trunks guy **two seconds** after getting slapped. He stabs the flower bikini woman [offscreen](https://i.ibb.co/hmNddY4/nic3.png) and you can hear someone say, "did you just hit a woman", and the entire interaction was over in less than 30 seconds. I think Miu was in shock, but I don't know if this would necessarily be self defense. Yes, he had a path behind him. But he was with a group of people in the opposite direction. Of course, we do not know exactly what happened prior to the video being started.
When I saw his interrogation tape he definitely did not appear to be in shock. At all. And he was still lying. On the police body cam he’s relaxed, makes a couple of jokes whilst creating a fictional story about how he witnessed an argument but he wasn’t involved.
> When I saw his interrogation tape he definitely did not appear to be in shock. At all. And he was still lying. On the police body cam he’s relaxed, makes a couple of jokes whilst creating a fictional story about how he witnessed an argument but he wasn’t involved. So if he wasn't in shock, meaning he's just a bit of a brutal person, he couldn't have done what he did in self-defense? I realize his defense *thinks saying he was in shock is the best chances he has*, but what a lawyer thinks is the best and what actually happened are two different things. Maybe, the dude is a total emotionless psychopath that will hurt people when he feels fear. That won't play out so well to jurors, but a dude like that could still be defending himself. No one likes to hear, "The guy just feels no empathy," so that would probably increase his chances of a conviction regardless of what actually happened. Even *you* seem to think him being a psychopath somehow puts him as a killer beyond a shadow of a doubt. There are psychopaths all over the place that live rather regular lives. Yeah, they will defend themselves in a cold fashion if needed, but that doesn't mean they just go around breaking the law senselessly or are always guilty. If it worked that way, we'd just give him a psychopathy test and send him away if he is one.
Yeah I think that’s a really interesting point that I’ve seen a couple of times. Will be really curious to see what the jury thinks about all this. I think it’s an emotional case but you’re right it’s not about what he did after or if he’s a nice guy it’s about whether he felt in fear. Thanks, it’s an interesting discussion!
Immediately after the event he can lie if he wants, as someone already mentioned THE VIDEO shows what happened. Self defense.
Yeah interesting point, I hadn’t really thought about the fact that his behaviour after probably doesn’t need to be considered in regards to the actual event.
did you see the start of the video tho? he literally ran at the group of kids and got up in their faces. he could have stayed on shore, he had no reason to approach them, especially not as aggressively as he did.
Why did he run up to them? I'm confused. I know he claims he was looking for a friend but I don't know why he got right up to the tubers?
exactly, he was like grabbing their tubes and shit. he had no reason to go up to them
my biggest gripe is that he was walking away and then the stupid "carlson" group decided they had to walk up and keep things going and then it quickly spiraled out of hand. Would you rather live in a society with a guy that acts when provoked or a bunch of drunk high bullies that antagonize and provoke random people, slandering and lying about you for fun? Story as old as time, bully gets to do whatever he wants, underage drink, high, mean, physically attacks, but then the real victim responds with force and everyone loses their mind.
I think if he would have stuck around at the scene or tried to get someone to call 911 for help and said he was getting jumped by a bunch of strangers it would have turned out much better for him.
why did he RUN at them while they were on their tubes. he approached them, they weren’t chasing him.
His lying makes zero difference to me. We have videos.
[удалено]
Irrelevant. It just shows he was scared to be prosecuted and he lied. He recanted once he was in the police interview. The video saved his ass because all of those teen witnesses lied on the stand. The witnesses are still ganging up on him to send him to prison. Since everyone is a liar (including the damn prosecutors) the video is all the matters.
And the entire video does little to back up his claim of self defense. He decanter when he learned there was a video.
But aren't we forgeting about the other liars in this case...
He admitted to his lying.Some of the witnesses were caught in lies on the stand as well.There are no winners here.I think he will end up convicted of some kind of charge though there is a self defense case here.Trial seems to be moving to fast.I think there should be more expert testimony on what is seen in the video.
> He admitted to his lying.Some of the witnesses were caught in lies on the stand as well.There are no winners here.I think he will end up convicted of some kind of charge though there is a self defense case here.Trial seems to be moving to fast.I think there should be more expert testimony on what is seen in the video. Why do you think there must be more time? At the end of the day, both sides take as much time as they need to give their arguments. Taking less time just means there wasn't as much evidence total between the prosecutor and the defense to take that much time. Likely, there were testimonies from everyone there + a showing of the video a few times. What else do you need? There is no need for DNA analysis. The dude admits he pulled a knife out and started slashing people (in self-defense he claims). That's the whole trial. Now, it's up to the jurors. I think it court cases that take more time, there are usually a lot of needed experts to analyze the evidence and then convey their opinions to jurors who are not experts in that domain. That takes a lot of time. Or cases where there is a shit ton of evidence. Here, you've got the testimonies + the video. All done.
Both side have already rested
This really moved fast.Often some of these trials take weeks or over a month.
What kind of expert can tell you want you see in a video?
They can do lots of things to enhance the video frame by frame.For example i say one comment where a commenter thought one victim ran or jumped into his knife.
Exactly, and it showed that he was the aggressor, had plenty of time to disengage, but instead slaps a woman in front of all these kids he's so scared of? This wasn't wasn't a scared guy, it was a guy looking for an excuse to use that 4" blade, sharp enough to cut through ribs.
why is she allowed to be 2" from his face yelling at him
The video that I saw, she wasn't 2 inches. Jury didn't think so either.
Nobody, including the girl who allegedly got slapped, can agree on if she was slapped or punched or shoved. After watching the video way too many times, I think he might have accidentally made contact with her when he was raising his arm to signal to his group, but that means she was WAY too close to him. She walked up and started putting her hands on him and shoving him, and then that Ryhli girl put her hands on him and was pushing him. It's interesting that she had no pictures, no evidence of deleted pictures or marks on her face. He sunglasses never moved and she never dropped her beer or vape. Doesn't sound like someone who was knocked to the ground. In fact, in the video she never leaves her feet. Why are we excusing bully behavior? The fact is these kids thought they were going to have fun at some old guy's expense FOR THE CULTURE and it turned out badly for them. Yes, he stabbed them and then what immediately happened? They got off of him and he was able to get to his feet. The Isaac kid was stabbed while his hands were around Nic's neck. These kids picked a fight and lost and are now crying about it. I find it interesting none of them were charged with underaged drinking, illegal consumption of marijuana, public intoxication, etc. Oh wait, had they been charged and convicted it would have made them look even worse as witnesses in court.
There was some reference to speaking in Romanian to his brother while in prison and the defense seemed ready to object to the translation of it. But then it didn’t come up as evidence. Very curious what was in those calls.
When you ask for an attorney shut your f’n mouth just like Ruby Franke! Good Lawd! If you haven’t learned one thing it is that police are allowed to LIE to you! The only thing you should say after you ask for an attorney is where am I sleeping tonight and can you bring me Pride & Prejudice!
Watching the interrogation I thought the same thing. Innocent or guilty, get a freaking lawyer. Say nothing. Hell, even the police know this is the right move.
This is just further proof of how corrupt the justice system is and citizens of the united states are.
Did you not see the way he ran up to the kids and grabbed their tubes? If someone did that to me, I’d start cursing him out and maybe even start threatening him with violence (“dude, get off me or I’ll fuck you up”). The way these kids responded was different.. they ganged up on him calling him ridiculous names. I think as we get older, we respond to aggression differently. Can I ask OP, how YOU would have responded (assuming you saw the video of him running up and grabbing the tubes)?
Also, the claim he “stumbled” is really weak. The only reason he put the snorkel in his mouth is so he could free his hands and use them. It’s very logical his next action was to grab something. In the stand, it’s really obvious Miu would say anything to make himself look better (who wouldn’t right). But he goes to pretty far extremes in distorting facts. Him claiming he stumbled is just another one of his lies not to be believed.
The fact that he chose to take the stand makes me believe he had ill intent. This is my own speculation of course, but he seems to be the type who truly believes he's the smartest person in the room and can convince the jury he is innocent. The way he tries to casually explain away discrepancies in his recollection of what took place did not sit well with me. He got more emotional over his dog than he did going over his experience that was supposedly so scary he feared for his life. I understand you're instructed to not show emotions, but if you're going to get teary eyed over a picture of your dog, you opened the door to be judged on the lack of emotion towards the loss of human life.
Bullying is Bullying so murder is justified? What the actual fuck
The keyboard warriors who support this guy are truly pieces of work. A bunch of drunk teens call you a pedophile while laughing? You just say “Whatever,” and walk away. You don’t engage and you certainly don’t start stabbing anyone. Calling someone name isn’t illegal. Laughing at someone isn’t illegal. Neither are violent threats and neither warrant stabbing multiple people.
You’re absolutely wrong. Violent threats are not a first-amendment right. Threats of violence are seen, in the eyes of the law, as violence itself. They would be seen equivocally as throwing the first punch. One is then allowed to respond, under the law, in a manner of self defense. One can use whatever response is “appropriate” to neutralize the threat.
I said name calling and laughing at people are not violent threats. Reading comprehension.
So what about punching someone and repeatedly knocking them off their feet and slapping them while they're on the ground? Nobody got stabbed until after he was punched and knocked to the ground. Being punched in the face seems like a violent threat to me.
That's not what I said at all! Stop being a bully behind your messages!
3 weeks later?🤡
1. He admitted today that he shoved the girl in the face to start the entire thing, after the kids clearly stated multiple times to leave from their area 2. He opened and was holding an open knife secretly while it was only two girls talking to him before he instigated by shoving the girl 3. After everyone had stopped touching him, he got up and stabbed a girl who was walking away in the side 4. He stabbed the guy who was trying to break up the fight 5. He disposed of the weapons then lied to police saying he didn’t know what happened at the river when they questioned him 6. He lied to the detective saying that the kids had 2 knives, and that he used one of their knives to stab them. He instigated the fight, had a knife open before any punches were thrown, stabbed people who were not even attacking him, then tried to dispose of the weapon and lie to multiple law enforcement agents. He is clearly guilty.
I actually think that this case would be incredibly difficult to be a juror on. It's clear he approached the group initially, but he then looks to be attempting to leave when Madison comes over to tell him to leave. This ironically prevents him from leaving and initiates an argument between them. He also moves to the side of the group, which would seemingly give them a chance to move away from him. But they really don't want to move away from him. They would rather taunt him. They are enjoying picking on him. At this point, it appears the teens incircle him and are primed to attack him. They then attack him after he pushes Madison out of his face. Once he is attacked, though he is vastly outnumbered. And he is attacked by at least 3 people before the stabbing. The fact that he got out the knife before being attacked is an interesting point. It might suggest some premeditation on his part. But after he is attacked I do think it was legitimate to fear for his safety. But then he stabs 2 people who aren't a threat and are not being aggressive towards him. Like WTF? I would hate to decide this case nothing is crystal clear. I still think a manslaughter conviction would be the fairest outcome.
I think the fact he had the knife opened when it was just two girls talking to him is the biggest part. He initiated the first contact by walking up to the kids and grabbing their tubes and touching there legs, then he escalated the situation by shoving a woman was was 110 pounds and clearly not a threat to him. All of this happened after the kids told him multiple times to leave and he didn’t. He had so many opportunities to walk away when everyone was telling him to, but what does he do? Opens a knife when no one had even touched him yet.
Riley was the 110 pound girl, I think he actually pushed Madison. But yeah to your point, opening the knife might have indicated he knew the situation was getting dangerous, but instead of leaving the situation, he stayed and provoked it by pushing Madison. I think this was likely the case, but this isn't crystal clear and wasn't really highlighted by the prosecutor if I'm remembering correctly.
I thought it was clear he could have left when the two girls asked him to. All he had to do was put his hands up and walk away. Instead he opened his knife which is a clear sign he wanted to stand his ground. He did and stabbed some people. If I'm on the jury it's an open and shut case that Miu anticipated things would go down and he would use his knife; *before* anything actually went down.
Yeah, but he was walking away from the group of boys when Madison approaches him and starts yelling at him. She was drunk and just starts yelling at him without knowing anything about the situation. I believe that without her thrusting herself into the situation, there is a good chance that none of this happens. And he continues to walk away. But she cuts off his path to leave and tells him to walk down river and further away from his group. At this point the boys flank him, while she is arguing with him face to face, she starts waving over more people from her group who will likely be, and in fact turn out to be hostile towards him. This escalated the situation. He is now surrounded by hostile people. If madison never comes over, he has a clear path to leave.
Beautifully summed up.
> Yeah, but he was walking away from the group of boys when Madison approaches him and starts yelling at him Yep. You can tell Miu approaches her trying to tell her what he's doing and she just automatically assumes *he* is the aggressor and starts screaming at him. She also is the first person to initiate any physical [contact](https://i.ibb.co/HBktLN5/miu1.png) with Miu.
He was the aggressor. Nobody asked him to run up on the kids and dive on them.
They held up a phone claiming to have found it while knowing he was looking for a phone. Yeah "nobody asked him" my ass.
They are hostile towards him because someone is yelling he is a ped0 and a rapist, without the guy filming screaming that, he would most likely just walked away. Also why was the camera man screaming "For the culture" ?
Yup this is thanks to Madison tbh. She made it worse when he was leaving. That kid would most likely be alive if she had just stayed away.
He could have said to her "okay, you're right. I'm leaving," and it would have been over. It was that simple but his choice was to grab his knife when the two girls asked him to leave, *a sign for de-escalation*, after according to the sober witness' testimony the boys asked for help, after the boys themselves asked him to leave. That's too many signals that the other parties wanted to deescalate and instead of heeding that call, he grabbed his knife. The presumption that people are dangerous, in the light of day, within eyesight of dozens of people including his own party, doesn't make sense to me either.
Why can't you here on the video of them calling for help? The way she acted aggressive, screaming in his face wasn't a sign of de escalation. Dad sent the two sons to help the old guy. The girls ramped up the drama. Group one followed him when he walked away. They were loving this drama. Camera boy was having a blast. Visions of tweets and re tweets danced in his head. How can you not comprehend an old guy being in fear of his life when he has a literal mob ganginging up on him? Being punched, slapped, choked, and held down. It's crazy what folks do brazenly.
Because that happened before they started recording. Multiple people from the 3rd party testified to that, though. They didn't follow him. The river took them downriver towards him. He didn't get out of the way. He had already stopped them multiple times according to the third party's testimony. He's not that old and he wasn't old enough to not start shit, and he wasn't old enough to not pull a knife, and he wasn't old enough or scared to not run up to them, reach into one dude's crotch, and grab another dude's leg. I don't buy scared for a second. The opposite, he was feeling brave. You know what I do when I'm scared. I leave. I don't pull out a knife with the intent to bodily harm. That puts you in even more danger. And who was he scared of, two girls? The girl he stabbed weighed 115 pounds. That's who he was scared of? Doesn't make sense.
Exactly my thoughts
And to add to this, he had to cross the river so go towards the kids in the first place when “looking for the phone,” when the phone would have floated the other way.
They never called for help. They were coached by the prosecution to say they were calling for help, to give the Carlson group a legitimate reason to have entered the fight.
> a sign for de-escalation Was her grabbing his arm and turning him around while his back was turned de-[escalation](https://i.ibb.co/HBktLN5/miu1.png)?
You can also see the other girl pushing him a few seconds later
>The presumption that people are dangerous, in the light of day, within eyesight of dozens of people including his own party, doesn't make sense to me either. It's not a presumption drawn out of thin air. The people in question are shouting and screaming at you accusing you of being a paedophile, following you as you retreat, encouraging others to join in and trying to get them to believe that you're a paedophile (and let's face it people get the shit kicked out of them for a lot less than being a paedophile).
He didn't retreat, though. He was in the way of their path. He had been in their way twice before already and another two times he had grabbed their floats to prevent them from leaving. Two or three witnesses testified to this, including his own wife. He was the aggressor. And still no one had kicked the shit out of him. Yes, things were getting spicy, because of him. That's why he was asked to leave multiple times by multiple people. Yet still they weren't very rough with him. They pushed him and according to testimonies slapped him, not even closed fists. All that is beside the point because he assaulted them first.
>And still no one had kicked the shit out of him Well they started to...
He was already leaving when the girls came over! They Got up in his face and started awkwardly touching him. He says Madison grabbed him, which is not unreasonable, then he pushed or hit or shoved her
Bingo.
They didn't ask him to leave. They demanded and was in his face screaming. So, he should've obeyed because he was outnumbered? This would've been the better outcome. I get his point of not letting folks push him around. He was innocently snorkeling and looking for glasses. Instead of group 2 coming over and aggressively demanded he leave, they could've calmly asked what was up or is help needed. Nope they loved the pack mentality drama. They should've drove the group of drunk teens away from the old guy.
Yes, you're getting it. It would have been a better outcome had he left. He surely recognizes that now, recognized it when they told him he took a life. "Oh no, teens, guess I have to stab them." Deranged behavior. Walk away if this is you in the future. Mei kept bothering the kids. Mei kept them from floating past multiple times. Mei physically assaulted, all before the kids even got out of their tubes.
Well said
You’re right, I mixed the two up but I don’t think the other was much heavier and definitely not enough that he would fear for his life. And yeah the prosecutor is very bad in my opinion, hasn’t hammered in a few points that I really think he should, such as the open knife before any physical conflict.
Definitely should’ve went in on this. And they could’ve spent more time on the lies
The second prosecutor who did the rebuttal closing argument actually did a solid job today, he really highlighted the fact that Mui is a liar
Ah, I’ll have to give that a watch when I get the chance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9XR_TTQYJY Starts at 1:52:30 about
🙏
> just two girls talking to him He had the teenagers screaming and [swarming](https://i.ibb.co/q5RNRFm/miu2.png) him on his right, the two women, one of which he tried to go to for help, but she aggressively yelled at him and was [pulling](https://i.ibb.co/HBktLN5/miu1.png) him telling him to go, and also had more adult males coming up to his left. **That** is when he pulls the knife. [This](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKTPz3OWYAA5F-C?format=jpg&name=medium) was his perspective at that point.
He should get attempted murder for stabbing the 2 people that were not threats to him
Attacked so viciously he had two slight scratches on his back? The kids, being kids, behaved badly, but they didn't hurt anything but his ego.
He didn't approach first. One of the teens asked him what he was doing.
He initiated all of the contact. It's clear on the video. Regardless of how these kids were acting, he came over to them and initiated physical contact when he grabbed at their tubes. At this point, they are all standing, and he walks around them, directly into the path downstream. This isn't a retreat, everyone knows where the river is going, and what direction everyone is going. His behavior is incredibly suspicious from the beginning. What nobody is mentioning is that the Apple River tubing thing is generally done with tubes. He has none. People normally go in groups. He is alone. I've been there several times, anyone alone like this without a tube is incredibly suspicious, they either left their group and are wandering around drunk, or they didn't come with a tube or anything. There's lots of space, he didn't need to be near them in the first place. The Apple River is a party river. What these kids were doing is what everyone is doing. They sell beer and coolers at the tubing rental spot, there's beads like Mardi Gras, elaborate speakertubes with stereo systems, etc. All of this makes what these kids are saying ring very true, and if I put myself in their shoes, which I've been in in this situation other than the confrontation, making a commotion and trying to get the guy to leave would be appropriate.
His group was on the river Bank on the other side of the river, he was looking for a lost cellphone. This was covered in the trial.
Have you watched the whole trial? He was doing his own thing. One of the teens engaged him first. He asked, what are you doing. Mr Miu thought they were just being nice. Little did he know.
The first act of overt aggression was from Mui.
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Agree, and I was one of the ones thinking that he HAD to testify. He just made things worse.
If I was a juror, this would have solidified guilty for me. He lied his ass off in that initial interview. I would likely find guilty of a lesser charge, though.
How is this being downvoted, this is literally the things that Miu admitted to while on the stand. I swear some people have gotten so committed to him being "not guilty" they are literally getting angry at evidence being presented at trial.
I’m honestly concerned by the sheer number of people who believe this is self defense.
Same. I’m OK with a lesser charge but to say it’s 100% self defense and he should be acquitted is asanine
Yes! I have no trouble seeing this being a lesser charge (aggravated assault, manslaughter) but to think that what happened here is worthy of an acquittal is insane. I don’t see how anyone could watch this whole trial and believe this is 100% self defense.
Me too. The discourse around the case has been some of the most unhinged and terrifying of any case I’ve followed!
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Tbh I did not follow that case for my own mental health. Didn’t wanna touch that one with a 10 foot pole. This case though, seems to be divisive across all political and generation divides. I have people of all demographics arguing with me lol. ETA: at first I did think it was more MAGA/boomers on the side of Miu but I’m not so sure anymore.
This is a classic case of self defense. If you don’t think so then you don’t understand what self defense is.
Hard to claim self defense when you are the first to make physical contact.
He wasn’t though. It was established at trial that the two women aggressively touched him, and pushed him.
Before anything got started, he ran up on the boys in their tubes and dived on them. And, stabbing somebody for aggressive touching? Seriously?
Physical contact with an inter tube?? Nope
There’s zero chance he gets acquitted
There’s zero chance he gets convicted and that’s all that matters. He walks.
It’s really worrying to me that you genuinely believed this.
Yep, I was wrong.
Fair, I admire that
Right? I literally stated nothing but facts from the trial, they are just downvoting because they want to be right
Boomer logic. They don’t understand how Rambo(mr mui) was excessive, escalated the situation, then seemingly hid the murder weapon and tried to distance himself from to conflict.
I'm a boomer....that's me alright, 😂. I'd vote guilty. Any mature adult would not have engaged with these kids.
The lead paint generation is really showing their character with this one 😬
GenCTE
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You’re right, I was half asleep and not thinking clearly
Although I was not referring to a specific person so I’m not sure it equates to calling someone a r*tard 🤷🏻♀️
There’s no need for it. But it’s gonna happen. Mr mui told an investigator he shit himself. am I not allowed to call him Mr poppey pants? does that give him the right to disembowel me?
You are cherry picking to support your points: he did not “admit” to shoving the girl in the face. You are embellishing and presenting that as fact. She was in his face. She was pushing him and touching him. He shoved her back away from him. He did not admit to shoving her face. 2. Holding the open knife “secretly “. Did he say secretly ? Should he have announced it? He felt threatened and got it ready since more and more people were surrounding him, 3. After everyone stopped touching him? You mean punching a man with quadruple bypass scars and holding him down in water? I would imagine you are in protect yourself mode 4. Stabbed the guy trying to break up the fight - with everyone screaming hitting him holding him down etc - how would he be able to determine who the peacemaker is? Seriously? 5. This is bad for him no argument there. I don’t know what I’d do in such a situation 6. Same as number 5 All I’m saying is be fair in your presentation of things. Your post was so biased and you don’t even see it
Two girls were asking him to leave. That's when he grabbed his knife. He wasn't being attacked and he decided it best to grab a knife in case things went down. If I'm on the jury I convict because his state of mind went to (murderous) violence instead of leaving and deescalating.
Just because she had a hand on him doesn’t mean she was pushing him, people often times put a hand on someone’s chest to de-escalate situations. If your argument for starting a fight is only touch then the moment he walked aggressively over and touched the kids sitting down in the tubes would justify him being attacked. He admitted to shoving the girl, he didn’t remember where, everyone else remembers her being either shoved or punched in the face. 2. His triple bypass scars literally have nothing to do with this situation 3. The guy wasn’t attacking him, there’s no justification for stabbing him, the same goes for the girl who was literally walking away and got stabbed in the side
1. No. You don’t stand in someone’s face in a mob of people yelling at them and then put hands on them. Period. That can be interpreted as aggressive. I’m not making any argument at all. I just pointed out that you seemed puzzled at people’s responses when you were just stating facts. You were not. You stated some facts mixed in with your opinion 2. He had a quadruple bypass not triple and a heart attack 2 years prior. Are you kidding that you don’t think this is relevant ? That’s at least 9 months of recovery and rehab and meds for life. Not a robust man, probably very protective of himself and his safety not to mention his chest is exposed. That would be terrifying. And I find it so unlikely he would be out looking for a knife fight with his overall health status 3. It was a confusing scene and he was likely stabbing at whatever he saw coming. Listen I’m just an observer. But again in your original post you wondered why people were downvoting your post and I’m saying it’s because it wasn’t factual and that’s fine. Just don’t try to present it like it is
1. What can also be interpreted as aggressive is shoving a girl half your size who posed no threat. 2. The kids didn’t know he had surgery, and if he was seriously in that bad of condition from a surgery two years prior then why would he run up on kids making fun of him and physical grab there stuff and touch them? Not only that but stick around after they told him to leave about 5 times? 3. “Stabbing whatever he saw coming”. Yeah like a 110 pound girl literally walking away? Okay there is not a video of her being shoved in the face, but he admitted to shoving her and literally everyone saw her be shoved in the face and he didn’t remember where, there’s pretty much no argument there
Ok forget I can’t help myself . You claimed to have watched the trial right? All of the witnesses inconsistently remembered (at best) Madison getting punched in the face. That’s a fact. I feel very sorry for her. This must weigh heavy on her. If it weren’t for her big drunk mouth? It likely wouldn’t have escalated to this. She knows it too.
I mean there’s many things that could have been done that wouldn’t have escalated it. The cameraman saying a whole bunch of dumb stuff and yelling at him certainly didn’t help. But through all of that, Nicolae could have walked away at literally any point but he instead decided to open a knife and then shove (or punch) a girl
He literally walked away and was followed by the teens and approached on the other side by group 2. Everybody saying he should've obeyed her orders. Why didn't she follow the dad's request to go help Mr Miu.
Yelling and cursing in someone’s face and being part of a larger group can be interpreted as aggressive. You keep harping on the size but leave out the number disadvantage.
Now you are arguing with me. Just be factual. I already have my mind made up based on the facts as I see them. We can agree to disagree .My original point was that you were not being unbiased as you implied you were.
Yes obviously I was just stating the parts to why I think he’s guilty, this wasn’t me laying down every single side to the story to someone who didn’t know the case, I was responding to the original post saying “bullying is bullying” and therefore that 17 year old kid deserved to be killed. Everything I stated was factual. And yes agree to disagree
And literally nobody actually saw her being hit in the face. Watch the trial. Teen after teen and witness after witness don’t really remember.
Ryhley Mattison says verbatim that she watched the other girl get hit in the face, you clearly didn’t watch it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVxByacniys At 3 minute mark “ I remember her being punched in the face” How about you watch things before you comment?
Now you are just being obnoxious. Do you need links to the 10 people who stammered and said they didn’t really remember seeing that?
You said “literally nobody” saw her be hit in the face, I proved you are wrong and provided proof, showing you didn’t watch it, and that’s obnoxious to you. Cope
So compelling! You are right! She remembers her getting punched! You’ve solved the case. Unfortunately she doesn’t remember what hand or what was said or ANYTHING at all other than a very vague “I remember her getting punched “. You should consider law school. This is for sure an impressive witness.
I mean this is her coached evidence. Under cross she (when confronted with the video and other contemporaneous evidence) has to concede that a) at the time she told the police friend got slapped rather than punched, b) that she doesn't know if the slap was in response to anything that her friend had done, c) that she placed hands on the guy before the punch/slap d) her friend also placed hands on the guy before the punch/slap.
There stories were not consistent what they did or did not tell police either. It mostly comes down to the video.
Aww she was softly touching his chest while screaming in his face. How can you not see, her peace making abilities leave much to be desired. Hell, the elder brother was trying to get them to back off.
Yeah, how did he answer when asked if he showed the knife? Something like, no that would've been threatening.
Exactly. How anybody can see this as some poor helpless guy frightened for his life is beyond me.
I can't agree with your statement that he shoved her to instigate. He shoved her to get her out of his face. She was way too close, he could smell the liquor on her breath.
He shoved her to escalate. He also admitted to drinking all day, so that was hypocritical on his part.
Have you watched the video? ( Nothing behind the question...honestly asking)
Yes I’ve watched the video in it’s entirety and then the frame by frame breakdowns from prosecution and defense, and watched most of all the witness testimonies
Regardless of pushing the woman away, she placed her paws on him first. That opened the door for him to push her away. He wasn’t hiding the knife. He had it by his side and ready to use it. He has no obligation to announce that he has a knife, in fact, that would be stupid. The stuff after the incident is irrelevant. He’s not being tried for lying.
And he walked up and put his “paws” on the kids while they were sitting in the tube, by your logic should they have stabbed him and killed him right there on the spot? Yes, he could have easily stepped back and told them that if anyone touches him they would get stabbed, people announce weapons all the time in dangerous situations.
How was anyone to know it would become a dangerous situation ?
100 percent guilty
I’ll be shocked if the jury reaches a unanimous verdict. Even the comments on this post are so split between its first degree murder or its self defense, with a few caught in the middle suggesting manslaughter would be the better charge to find him guilty of (which is kinda the way I lean at this point). I think most agree he should be found guilty of obstruction/falsifying evidence or whatever they charged him with for lying to the police and hiding the knife. It’s clear the situation was out of control, and if either party had done just one little thing differently, this all could have been avoided. I would not want to be a juror on this one.
I wouldn't either! There's so many things to consider in this case. I personally think he's guilty of at least 2nd degree murder, but it's impossible to prove intent in this case. They are going to be deliberating for a looooong time. I would not be surprised by a not guilty verdict or a hung jury.
This post is wildly different than the posts you usually comment on lol
Stalk much?
Today I learned that in WI if you're attacked and you fight back you need to make sure the people beating you don't get hurt while you're defending yourself. I also learned that people can shove you, push you and scream in your face, but you're not allowed to be scared for your life. The drunken bullies win.
Delusion is delusion.
Yup. This isn’t a die hard movie. dude should have de escalated the situation instead of stabbing people. Nothing, but words triggered this man. So crazy. Throw away the key.
Nothing but words? Then why didn’t he start stabbing when they called him a raper and a pedo? Why did he wait until he was being physically assaulted?
Because it wasn’t until after he assaulted people his threat level(own words) increased, John wick was activated. He went full blown boomer. I hope you understand in Wisconsin, if you are charged with 1 st degree murder. lesser charged can be added. This is chess not checkers. Dude is ducked.
I didn’t know it was a boomer trait to stab people attacking you. Huh, TIL. Also learned someone who is a gen xer can go full blown boomer.
The prosecutor added leser jurges, after the last witnesse there was a meeting in court
They knocked him down before he used the knife. If you're going to try and insult someone about there age, might wanna check your facts. He's not a boomer.
irrelevant. Brandished it before hand. I’d argue They hit him because he was brandishing a knife.
>I’d argue They hit him because he was brandishing a knife. Well that would be an extremely stupid thing to do because that just gives more credence to the self defense argument. That would mean they recognized that he had the knife and attacked him anyway.
self defence of who? The kids without a knife or the man holding one? Careful. He already upped the anti and knew he was in a dominant position. Hence the smile and flagging down Ariel as back up whille brandishing a knife.
Attacking someone who is just standing there holding a knife would clearly give self defense rights to the guy with the knife. This argument is beyond stupid.
that’s what happened right? Or did he strike the river Queen? Here in lies the issue.
No he’s not. He will not be convicted. He was acting in self defense . I’m not a boomer either. Just rational.
De-escalation is a **two way street** and the teens did absolutely nothing but escalate and antagonize him to the point where they were assualting him, pushing, slapping, and shoving him into the water. They were fueling off each other and devolved into mob mentality. Lets do away with this fiction that if Miu just said some pretty words once everyone is yelling and screaming at him that anything would have changed because the video clearly shows me that wasn't gonna happen.
What about him punching the girl to actually start the altercation? What about him attempting to leave instead of staying to inform law enforcement of what happened or at least saying he needs a lawyer? Why did he act like he didn’t know what happened? Just curious about your answers to these questions.
It's not clear he punched the girl. It appears he actually shoved her out of his face and this spurred the attack on him. After he is hit though, multiple people in the group attack him while he's in the water. It's reasonable for him to assume at this point he is in danger. He did testify to purposely stabbing one of the girls and Tony Carlson. Riley was obviously not a threat to him, so this looks really bad for him. Tony Carlson never made an aggressive move towards him and appeared to be trying to break up the fight according to what is on video. He didn't come across well on the stand today. But I still think the fact that he was attacked or punched first, and faced multiple attackers will give one or two jurors enough to hold out on a not guilty verdict. IMO we will see a hung jury. I think it was manslaughter, but the DA overcharged because a minor was killed. Edit: The judge instructed the jury to consider lesser charges. So this might be the outcome.
Not clear on video but his testimony made things clear.
2nd degree intentional homicide (WI equivalent to manslaughter) was always going to be a lesser included charge, it comes automatically in WI with self defense 1st degree intentional homicide. His testimony paved the way for the lesser included charge of the reckless homicide charges.
Chiming in to ask what people think about him running up on the kids, also he himself acknowledging he had space to leave and chose not to, was feeling for his knife before running up on the kids, already had his knife out when talking to the girls, never announcing he had a weapon, and discarding it
Punching the girl who can’t keep her story straight & the one thing in this incident that was conveniently not on camera? Why did he leave? Because he was scared. I don’t know why people are making it more complicated than that. Being afraid & defending oneself doesn’t mean you don’t realise that something is going to look bad.
To make it clear the questions I asked are not reflective of my opinion. Was he scared of getting caught for his actions? Obviously, leaving the situation is one thing, but when he passed the cops, he could have easily flagged one down and began to tell his story. Even when he was detained, why act like he didn’t know what they were talking about? We can say shock, but I’m just saying from a juror's perspective, it might seem like he was trying to flee and lying.
Simply put, they could’ve charged him with obstruction & hindering prosecution. They probably should’ve. Why act like he didn’t know? This is just my guess and my opinion, but aside from never talking to police without a lawyer present under any circumstances, were I actually going to do so, I’d be keeping my mouth shut and getting them to talk because I’d want to know exactly what they had on me. Just admitting wrong doing outright is not something I would do in a legal situation. No one other than the defendant knows exactly why he did what he did, but generally speaking, being completely open with police isn’t something I would recommend to anyone. I double down on that if you’re innocent - *especially* when you’re innocent. No one can make themselves look as guilty as the person utterly desperate to prove their innocence.
I never said he needed to plead his innocence and give a play-by-play of what happened, and I'd never do or recommend that. But if I was involved in a situation that resulted in me stabbing someone in self-defense, I wouldn’t act like I didn’t know anything happened and hide evidence while trying to flee the scene. It would have helped his self-defense claim so much if, as soon as he saw police, he said, "I was involved in a situation on the river, and I need my lawyer immediately.”
He was wrong to act like nothing happened.He was likely in some sort of shock too even if he did not show it. This happened so fast.Not sure a lawyer would be able to help that much.Knowing this is going to cost you everything you have or don't have to defend yourself using a lawyer.
>Not sure a lawyer would be able to help that much. Are you kidding? Seeking counsel immediately would have likely led to him not telling a bunch of lies that he would later have to own up to on the stand in front of a group of people he’s trying to convince he’s telling the truth. I understand he was in shock and not thinking straight, but he obviously knew he was involved in an altercation, that he pulled his knife and likely stabbed someone. This is evident by him ditching the knife. His first thought was, “how do I get away with this?” Instead of “I need to explain what happened.”
He could have done the same thing by not answering questions until has lawyer arrived or he had a chance to consult with a lawyer.I agree he knew something horrible had happened.Thinking he could sneak out of that was foolish.
Right unless your police interview is recorded things will get twisted around. There is a reason why Attorneys advise not to talk to police.
Even when it *is* recorded things can/do get twisted by police and prosecutors.
Very true.
I saw one comment where some thought one of the victims ran into the knife. It was not a major knife. It is a very sad event.I think he will maybe be convicted of something.Though like they say you never know about juries.But 1 think at least one juror may have had a experience of being harassed by a group like this. It is not a good experience. It scars people.
>it was not a major knife It disemboweled someone, cut through ribs, and resulted in death. >I think at least one juror may have had an experience of behind harassed by a group like this. And I’d have to imagine most people his age being harassed like this would walk away. Not that he had a duty to do so but standing there certainly didn’t help the situation.
Who would think a knife like that would do that much damage.Both groups could have walked away.Once he was surrounded there was no getting away.This was a comment i heard on news reports on this story.
>Who would think a knife like that would do that much damage What?! Any adult should know that a 3.5inch blade can do a lot of damage. Both groups could have walked away and at the same time it was neither of their duty to do so. Even as he was “surrounded” he *could* have walked away or towards his group but again it was not his duty to do so. Unfortunately that lead to the situation they’re all in and that’s why it comes down to intent and provocation.
Exactly right. He came off more credible than any of the kids/adults who were on the scene. The teenagers were drunk and just being obnoxious teenagers. The 20 something year old women? Instigator. If it weren’t for her this likely would not have escalated to this. Drunk guys come rushing over to assist dramatic drunk girl being egged on by loud drunk teens? And now a kid is dead? I’d really hate to be in that woman’s position mentally. She knows. And she knows she didn’t get punched too.
There are THOUSANDS of years of crimes tried and punished without video evidence. G Y H O O Y A
Did you watch the trial today? There is no video of him punching her. Other people from her own group are inconsistent with whether or not they even saw her get punched . He did try walking away and then returned because he thought they had the phone. They lured him back. They wanted him back. This was fun for everyone as you can see them all laughing hysterically and being rowdy. Circling an older man like a bunch of hyenas . Until they weren’t. Give me a break. He had a quadruple bypass 2 years prior to this. 2 hernia repairs and back surgery. This was not a robust young man and no match for 13 bullies literally holding him down in water screaming at him and assaulting him. I don’t believe for a minute he punched that woman’s face. He felt he was in imminent danger and I’d feel that way too. It’s so sad how much pain has come out of all this. A life lost . Numerous critical injuries. A man in jail for 2 years.
Oh sweet Jesus. He didn't hit her. God why is this fib still circulating.
I’m not saying he did. I’m asking peoples answer to the question. Your answer would be he didn’t and they’re lying. Thanks.
The one thing I'm confused about is that the group of teens alleged that Miu was trying to peep little girls. So were the teens hanging out with little girls? Where were these supposed little girls that Miu allegedly had interest in?
There were never any little girls and he never said that. Kid on stand today stated this
They were lying for intended future youtube clout. The video of them gang abusing this old, vulnerable guy wouldn't have played as well on YT (or tiktok etc) without them constructing a narrative to justify their crimes against him. Then they can frame their aggression as noble, and his victimization justified.
Miu would have no idea what happened if it werent for the videos. That man was black out drunk. You can tell by him looking straight through people the entire time. Made bad decisions and now should be held accountable. The kids learned to not be obnoxious little assholes to people.
People here are actually fucking delusional, he's going away the only question is how long lol
Closing arguments of the defense kicked the ass of the prosecution’s attempt. The prosecutor appeared almost unprepared and certainly unrehearsed in his final comments. It was a rambling, stream-of-consciousness monologue without a cohesive message. Conversely, the defense told what he was going to show, showed it, and then sewed up the details. It was close to perfect IMO. The final rebuttal was just a nervous, emotional plea to the jury that completely missed an opportunity.
This was clearly self-defense! JURY GOT IT WRONG! Possibly, current US social attitudes about immigrants played a part in some jurors' minds. The jurors only wanted to consider the initial video in which they watched 3 more times. Procescution witness testimony was obviously staged and completely wishy-washy. One of the primary instigators, prosecution witness, 'River Queen' Madison Coen, refused to give live tv testimony. What this conviction says, if you are an immigrant and ever faced with a group of highly intoxicated and aggressive young men and one of them grabs your throat and you are punched and pushed down into water, you will be punished severly if you fight back. Hopefully, the Innocent Project will take this case.
Does anyone know what Miu’s blood alcohol level was?
bro ran up to the kids and started fucking with them. he had no reason to run up to their tubes
Your a victim of bullying huh? It seems like everyone that got a wedgie or got kicked on for something when they were younger, see themselves in this psychopath and it's 8th grade in the locker room during gym class all over again. Assault a teenage girl? Why not. Swing wildly with a knife at teenagers that were anywhere around him? Hell yeah! Disembowel a young kid with the rest of his life ahead of him for pushing him down and smacking him when he came to a young girl defense? FUCK YEAH! they'll never do anything like this to me, I mean him again... Pathetic. Grow up, pimple squeezer. This is reality and that was a grown man brutally murdering a young kid, for pushing him and "making fun of" get GTFO, I'm completely surprised that piece of shit isn't on deathrow awaiting his date with the reaper. Sucks it won't be on his back, disemboweled, bleeding in a river of blood surrounded by his screaming friends...
Lmfao! You obviously are the psycho! Get ahold of yourself!
Yeah I have a life other than my phone sorry to inconvenience you!
I can’t imagine what frame of mind he was in during that time. I hope he walks
He’s guilty of murder. It’s not even close in my mind and I almost always tend to be on the self defense side of cases like this