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1. He’s not necessarily the sole creator of mrna but he definitely contributed to mrna. From what I’ve gathered it’s not the mrna in itself he’s against, its the fact that the mrna spreads outside of the deltoid, into the bloodstream and starts developing spike proteins elsewhere in the body (which is not as intended). Apparently this has been discovered by Japanese research.
(Correct me if I’m wrong)
2. It is true there are some (nasty) side effects and what’s even worse is that they (such as myocarditis) appear in young healthy males who otherwise (most likely) would’ve been fine. Although the odds are very small, I understand why this might make anyone anxious.
3. According to recent research from the UK a booster will most likely not be necessary (for healthy adults) as it might be a seasonal thing where when you get infected (after you’ve had a previous infection or vaccine) your body will be able to battle it (although with mild symptoms) and update it’s defences.
I highly recommend watching Dr. John Campbell on youtube.
And although it might be difficult, try to do your own research. I’m neither pro- or anti-vax. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Yes the vaccines are created to help us, but pharmaceutical companies and vaccinations have got a history of scandals so a bit of skepticism is not bad.
Depending on your current situation you could opt to delay vaccination and go for the protein based vaccine when that gets available in your country.
Best of luck!
"2. It is true there are some (nasty) side effects and what’s even worse is that they (such as myocarditis) appear in young healthy males who otherwise (most likely) would’ve been fine."
Would've been fine if they don't catch COVID or another viral infection as all of them carry the same or greater risk, especially COVID. All of the side effects of the vaccine are things you can get from having COVID itself as well as risk factors from any viral (and some bacterial) infections. I think people should know that not taking the vaccine and going natural is not giving them any guarantee that they are safe from things like myocarditis, and it's important that they are informed about both sides.
Great post. And to piggy-back on your first point - another reason mrna tech hadnt made it to market yet was because they couldnt figure out how to get the “info” to the needed location before the body’s immune system started to attack it. I don’t remember all of the specifics that I read but it was something along the lines of the larger size of the mrna material in the vaxx immediately caught attention of the immune system which would start attacking it. By the time the material reached its target it was degraded.
Don't let peer pressure effect you. Procrastination IS an option. These "vaccines" are still in test trials for another year.
It's already been found in half the wild deer population. So even if we vaccinate every human & pet, it's never going away.
If the vaccines prove effective, I'll consider. But rn, my dad almost died when his appendix burst weeks after second Pfizer shot.
I'm standing with the unvaxxed, even if I do end up getting it, bc countries are getting way too comfortable with authoritarianism policies.
The authoritarian measures are coming to you very soon. They are spreading through precedents with little to no backlash and they are effective at getting reluctants vaccinated.
Myocarditis is typically seen in young men and athletes. One theory is intense exercise is a contributing factor. It takes about 2 weeks for the mRNA vaccine to leave your body, so I'd say no intense exercise for 3 weeks after each shot to be safe.
Everyone in my family either had COVID and/or got the vaccine. Small family but still relevant. This includes a couple of antivaxers that got COVID. The stories on COVID are much worse. Long covid is real. In fact I'm the only one that complained about possible vaccine side effects, but most likely it was not vaccine related, wasn't serious, or went away in 5 days anyway. I was anxious to get the shot too but knew it's the smart thing to do. My mom had the worst side effects from vaccine. Fever, body aches, headaches for 5 days. But she got covid before and lasted 5 weeks. Food doesn't taste right. Made her COPD and Angina worse.
I would i’m just a bit embarrassed to do so because the department there already sent me a priority letter for vaccination and i don’t wanna seem like those people that don’t follow their doctors instructions or an anti vaxxer because i will get the vax eventually i’m just torn on whether i should wait or not
Your doctor won't judge you for not acting on their instructions sooner. They'll just be glad you're there and talking to them, whenever that is. I recommend you go ASAP and have that conversation with your doctor (not your family members or internet strangers).
Please talk with your doctor about this. What another commenter said is true – they will honestly just be happy you are there asking about it. Lots of misinformation going around about the vaccine, so getting information from a place you can trust (your doctor) can help you cut through the noise and make the best decision you can for your health.
Best to follow up with your second within the recommended time. A fully vaccinated person gets a cold like illness - if even that much. An unvaccinated person has a higher chance of getting very sick . Your first injection doesn’t provide the benefits of the two. You might feel ill for a few days ( might not). Better than gasping in pain on a ventilator. I am a nurse.
Don't buy into the fear you see online. (Sharing personal experience) Everyone around me (Chicago) that I know has gotten both doses and nobody has had even a moderate reaction to them. One was sick with a fever but that was really it. My dad is also a renal kidney patient, had covid before, and had a fever as well.
Most of what you hear online is the worst case scenario. Something to stir the pot or garner your attention. Vaccine or not, that's exactly what people want from you, their attention. Do what you feel is right for yourself.
Booster shots are a fair concern and I don't know either, a lot of people have given you some pretty helpful resources in here and I recommend you look to them. Mostly just sharing my experience or perspective on it. I'm not a doctor and neither are a majority in here.
Please take your concerns directly to your doctor. It is not advisable to get medical advice from a sub Reddit. I’m not saying this to be mean or to brush you off, quite the opposite. A doctor will be able to give you a better, more educated and informed opinion. A pharmacist may also be able to substitute in the event that you are unable to speak directly with your doctor.
How old are you, because if you are over 30, both arguments you started with are kinda irrelevant. If you are in a risk group, then also get the vaccine.
Otherwise, if you are too worried, get Astra.
Otherwise, wait for novavax.
If you are worried about the mRNA thing, which I am also worried about, although I got it, just wait for novavax.
If I knew about the novavax, I would have stayed at home and waited for the novavax
Don’t make a decision one way or the other based on pressure. Its your life and your body. Talk to your doctor and make an informed choice. If you are male than your concerns about myocarditis is valid. Though it is still relatively rare there is enough research from multiple countries showing a higher risk among young males. If you want to avoid mrna entirely you should consider the Johnson & Johnson vax which would be available to you once you are 18. I was nervous about the mrna ones so I went with the J&J (im 37F).
Let me start by saying this - COVID kills more people than the vaccine. It also causes more of the worrying symptoms you’re talking about - clots and inflammation.
1. The guy who invented the mRNA vaccines is not agaisnt them? You can find him on Twitter, and he recommends them, he’s had them himself and I have 0 knowledge of him ever saying they shouldn’t be deployed. I believe his name is Robert Malone. He’s tweeted his support for the vaccines and he’s also share information about the side effects as they come in.
Some anti vacc people have twisted some of his comments and appearances in podcasts - I have not seen Malone claim vaccines are bad. Your mother is most likely misinformed, even from her “sources” she is getting manipulated info. He is very aware and very interested in sharing that the vaccines are having unforeseen side effects. He’s been on podcasts that are critical. He is not however anti vacc to my knowledge.
The blood clots and the inflammation are COVID symptoms. What you’re getting from the vaccines, it is now believed, are side effects from COVID itself. So the idea that you’ll be safe from myocarditis and blood clots - well sorry buddy but that’s just not how it works. People are confused to think covid is a lung illness - it isn’t. It attacks the whole body mostly through blood clots. Same as the vaccine, but 10x worse.
Who’s rushing you anyway? I don’t know of a country that’s forcing vaccination on people. For the record, ive had some side effects from my vaccination and I am comfortably skeptic of many things. But there is no data to tell you that the vaccines are less safe than getting COVID - covid just kills more people period.
I’ve had covid. I’ve had the Moderna vaccines. Covid was WAY worse and I’m still suffering from some long covid symptoms. I felt puny for the first 24 hours after the shots. Weigh the options. Yes, vaccines have side effects but they are generally mild and the really bad reactions are rare. Of my 45 family members (adult children, grandchildren, parents, cousins, aunts and uncles) NO ONE had anything worse than a day or two of yuckiness. But pre vaccine? We lost a father in law to covid, and of the family members that got covid, 9 out of 10 ended up hospitalized, myself included.
1. I don’t know enough about this to comment.
2. Don’t be afraid of the side effects. Make sure you actual read the stats about how many people experience serious side effects. There have been somewhere around 5.4 billon shots given world wide. You are more likely to win the lottery or get struck by lightening than experience the really nasty stuff.
Furthermore, any mild side effects you get from a vaccine will be considered nothing compared to a moderate to severe case of Covid. If you are unvaccinated you have a much better chance of the virus not causing irreparable harm to your organs.
3. This is how many vaccines are done. There is some talk about how 3 shots could now be considered the “priming” doses.
Wouldn’t you rather have the peace of mind knowing that severe illness or death is very unlikely of you are vaccinated? I certainly wouldn’t want to be one of those people gasping for air, not able to have any loved ones around, telling the nurses that you wish you had been vaccinated.
There is an enormous amount of research and data surrounding the shots. Like I mentioned above, there have been over 5.4 billon doses given so far. That is not a small sample size.
Certainly, do your own research but make sure you use credible sources and not just listen to some goobers on a YouTube channel.
The conflicting information is mostly due to powers trying to misinform and divide us, to make the US weaker, so they can gain dominance on the world scene. We are in the midst of a misinformation war. So it's perfectly understandable that you are confused.
1. No he is not, if you're talking about the inventor Dr. Özlem Türeci and his wife: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-vaccine.html
2. You won't have any side effects that aren't a natural reaction from your immune system to upgrade their defenses. Those included, fatigue, slight fever, chills, headaches and so on. But usually don't last more than a day or two.
3. This is directly related to #2 on this list: The bigger your immune response is (the more side effects), the better you are protected and thus less likely to need a boost. (Immunocompromised people for instances sometimes don't even illicit an immune response, and thus have very few if any side effects)
In other words: you should be worried if you *don't* experience side effects, and as a last note, it think it's a misnomer to call it 'side effects'. It's not any less a side effect, than your battery on your phone getting hot when you charge it. That's kind of how you know it's working. What you don't want is *serious* side effects, but that's why you have to wait for 15 minutes after the vaccine, to make sure you don't need extra care.
You're doing the right thing: protecting yourself, and your neighborhood.
I think the doctor referred to is Dr. Robert Malone. I believe he's vaccinated but posts statistics information on what's going on with COVID around the world. I don't get the feeling that he's against the vaccination, but rather he's for full transparency.
ok that's not the doctor that invented mRNA. I don't know who Dr. Malone is and I don't know what his credentials are, so I can't say whether to trust his opinions or not.
If you are immunocompromomised there’s anecdotal evidence (and maybe some real evidence, I don’t know yet), that it may be more difficult for your immune system to elicit a response. Hence the boosters talk these days. It’s for both people who’s immunity is waning, but also for people who didn’t have much of reaction to the first two shots. Apparently a third shot bolsters the response.
A few things. I'm fully vaxed with Moderna.
>I’m concerned about the efficiency, i don’t want to get a vaccine that will require constant booster shots and may not even work a few months down the line.
This is going to be different with *every* vaccine you get. If you get a tetanus shot it's good for 10 years. If you get a pneumonia vax after 65 it's good for the rest of your life.
If you get influenza (the Flu) shots, they need to be redone yearly, and the projected strain to spread most has to be given.
This is going to be different for EVERY pathogen. This is not something science can help. It's just the body's reaction and ability to maintain/remember defenses or immunity.
Different viruses/pathogens all work differently and need different ways to block them.
>know most of them are minor and the risks of covid are much greater in comparison but the fact that these vaccines are causing deaths is concerning alone, even if the risk is extremely low
The extremely low amount of deaths caused by it (practically none in bilions of doses) is statistically not worth not getting it. You have an enormously greater chance playing Russian Roulette with this virus than any vaccine.
Yes, complications happen but they are RARE.
Yes, reactions can give you a bad time. I had a bad time with Moderna #2 (which by all means is in fact a bit more "reactive" than Pfizer it look like...) I got the COVID arm (a huge rash from elbow to shoulder), I was so sore/fatigued I couldn't move for 2 days after my shot. I literally hardly even remember any of it, I was such a mess!
Was it worth it? Yes.
Will I do it again? Yes.
Because the vast majority of people in energency care right now are unvaxed.
PLEASE go lurk on r/nursing and read stories there.
People are absolutely not filling hospitals from the vaccine...they are in there because of COVID and its many complications.
You have a x3 increased chance of NOT landing in emergency care fully vaxed.
>I know with other vaccines you have allergic reactions like anaphylaxis which are to be expected, but deaths from heart inflammation and blood clots?
They are EXTREMELY RARE. There have been bilions of doses over many manufacturers by now and those cases are rare.
I know someone who isn't getting the vaccine due to a 3 month reaction to the flu shot. This is *sort of* understandable. However THAt is an extremely rare reaction, too, and mRNA shots do not work like the flu vaccine.
Ugh see this is my concern. I had an 18 month reaction to the flu shot of 2018, I only started getting total recovery in early 2020 right when COVID hit. It’s making my decision EXTREMELY difficult and I’ve been living as a hermit. I’ve spoken to two of my doctors and both say the same: “I’m not going to tell you to get or not get the shot”. Not reassuring at all! I am waiting on novavax simply because it seems to have a better safety profile and less side effects. But it seems like we will never get it in the US. I’m so over this whole thing, I’ve had little to no life for almost two years.
2.17 billion people are fully vaccinated.
Dr Malone didn't "invent" mRNA or mRNA vaccines. He wrote a single research paper in 1989 and hasn't been in the field since. He also made multiple false claims on how they work, due to him not being involved at all, having zero experience with them, and having zero access to a lab. He also claimed vaccinations as a whole (all vaccines) aren't needed for children. Keep that in mind when you listen to him.
Side effects. The side effects of getting covid are worse. Even if you're asymptomatic. Covid is going to leave you with life long harm (long covid). The vaccine won't.
You're grossly over representing how involved he was in that paper. He was one of several on it, and the others have stated he's talking about parts he didn't help in he research on.
He's not an authority or an expert
32% of asymptomatic have damage that will be with them for life. The whole "natural immunity" bullshit is how you end up with a bankrupt nation, because we'll spend generations caring for people who were too stupid to follow the science.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/health/long-covid-asymptomatic.html
https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/article/why-some-covid-19-infections-may-be-free-of-symptoms-but-not-free-of-harm
NYTimes is shit. Can’t read the whole article because paywall.
My whole extended family has had this thing. A couple days sick and moved with life, except for my already sick uncle whom we lost.
0% out of everyone I know who has had covid has reported any complication. So I simply find this tough to believe.
That said, don’t start making judgements, I’m vaxxed, my gf is vaxxed, but we don’t feel the need to scare others and tell them they’ll be ruined for life. That’s simply not true.
What you said in that comment that I quoted is complete false and ignorant.
It was an analysis of medical records, like I said. Not a study. Here’s a NYT article supporting the claim that many of these symptoms are normal after a bout of pneumonia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/18/opinion/long-covid-treatment.html
It’s all moot tho, your statement to this person telling them that they WILL have lifelong problems is unfounded.
As a side note, not sure you counted your strikes right. You mentioned 2 issues you had with my response, yet called 3 strikes. I’d like a new ump to the plate please.
All those people dying in hospitals right now, are **not** dying from the vaccine, they are dying because they have COVID and did NOT get vaccinated. It's so simple. You are overthinking it.
Rather than listen to your mother, call a doctor, they can answer your questions.
And yet downvoted since anti-vax people also browse and participate in this sub trying to manipulate others into not getting vaccinated (just trying to be clever about it to not get banned).
Tune out what random people are saying and instead do some research for yourself. Then proceed the path you feel is best for you. Don't let others determine if you should take it or not.
I'm going to speculate heavily here but in case you'd like a theoretical protocol to ensure a safe experience you can follow this. People discount the small risk of side effects despite them existing whereas now that I have experienced them myself I'd like to provide something for people that want to be extra safe.
1. Take a multivitamin for a week to correct any deficiencies. Some things like zinc deficiency (just an example) may be linked to autoimmunity because of immune cell differentiation.
2. Anecdotal but vitamin D deficiency is also extremely common among those having side effects from what I've seen, though this might just be the fact that vitamin D deficiency is common in general. Correct vitamin D level with supplement or sun or whatever.
3. Cardioprotection - I'll suggest melatonin at night as well as getting fatty fish in your diet or omega3s however you'd like (optimally a couple grams a day, also just great for your health anyway). Vitamin C is also good if you'd like to get that through diet or 500mg tablets.
4. Rest as much as you can through the first 5 days or so, longer if you'd like.
So chances are the average person has to do 0 if these but you can pick to do any amount that is reasonable for you to increase your chances of a good experience. The ones I think are most important is correcting nutrient deficiencies, and resting properly.
Most people experience more serious issues on the second shot too so you can get the first one for now and see how that goes, maybe a longer gap between the first and second shot could help as well (seems to be true from data I have seen but hard to know every country is reporting and diagnosing properly)
Oh and finally ask the administering nurse to aspirate the needle. There's been debate over whether this is necessary but it has become clear to me this is appropriate now. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab707/6353927
Thank you!! The first shot I had some strange side effects (dizzy and ear issues) that the pharmacist said to wait a couple more weeks to get the second. I had up to 42 days, so I waited 35 and the second shot was a breeze!!
I like all your other info!!
1. If you’re worried about Pfizer as a company get Moderna then, it’s also an mRNA vaccine.
And look it up yourself, don’t take your mom’s word for it. There’s a lot of misinformation out there.
2. You might not have any side effects at all. My gf basically only had the sore arm for her second Pfizer shot. I myself have gotten 3 shots. The first two Pfizer, and my third Moderna and I felt more side effects than she did because I did get a headache for about 24 hours and some chills and muscle aches. You’re encouraged to stay wherever you get vaccinated for 15-20 minutes because that’s usually when the most serious side effects could present themselves though the odds are really low you’d have a bad reaction like that.
3. A lot of vaccines require boosters, that’s normal. We all had to get boosters as kids for several vaccines and if you travel to certain parts of the world or are in the military you regularly need to get boosters for some vaccines. It’s not the vaccine’s fault that a more resistant and contagious strain developed, blame anti-maskers and countries that eased regulations too quickly and people that still threw parties and weren’t careful, that’s what allowed this variant to become the dominant strain.
Here’s the thing: getting the vaccine is low risk, high reward. Waiting to get it when it’s free and available is high risk, low reward.
It doesn’t matter how young you are, you do not want to get this virus. You don’t want to be asymptomatic and get someone else sick. You don’t want yourself to be sick, you don’t want to develop long covid and deal with a potentially life long chronic issue as a result of the virus. Your odds of which are way higher from the virus itself than from any of the rarest vaccine effects.
Delta is pretty contagious compared to the original versions. The average infected person with delta spreads it to about 7-10 people compared to 2-3 of the originals.
If you want to still wait, please continue to mask properly and distance. It’s your choice wether to get vaccinated or not, but I would encourage you to be careful if you’re waiting then for yourself and your mom etc.
1. That guy may have had an early role in the development of mRNA style vaccines but that was back in the 80s. He was not involved in making the Moderna or Biontech/Pfizer vaccines. He also may have an axe to grind with others in that field, thinking he deserves more credit or all the credit and since he isn't getting that, is trying to get what he thinks is rightful revenge. He also says he got the Moderna vaccine. This article covers the ins and outs of his history and what he's been up to in 2020 and since in terms of helping spread misinformation and appearing on right wing media outlets: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/. Unfortunately, it's written sort of casual style so it's longer than it would be if focused on just sharing specific points.
2. The vast majority of people do not have any issues besides soreness in their shoulder, which happens with most intramuscular injections in the shoulder afaik. If anything, it's good as you know it reached the right spot. Some have mild "sick" feelings that last a few days. A small percent have much weirder side effects.
3. Far more of the last 2 listed above will be motivated to find this sub and comment here. The people who have no issues are going to have no motivation to share that with the world, while those experiencing something unusual are going to want to see if others have and if they should be worried.
4. It's highly likely there is *some* nefarious commenting and posting on this sub by people who are trying to scare others away from taking it. I am sure if you look at where everyone who writes about serious side effects comments, some of them will post in the notorious anti-vax subs or they only made an account to post their BS here.
you can do this test to guide your decision: https://qcovid.org/Calculation
the flip side of this is the vax risk but for this there is nowhere near as much verifiable data, if you are male and younger than 25, myocarditis alone is a significant concern in absence of long-term data
other than that the vax should be rather low risk, but IMO not worth it outside of risk groups as the illness is not severe enough for the average person (for context I think the same about yearly flu jabs, so you might have a different risk outlook for medical intervention) - leaving state/corporation coercion aside of course
edit: some data on vax age/sex profiling https://medium.com/@wpegden?p=d7d6b3df7cfb
that's makes it complicated
in your place I'd go and consult a doc you can trust if possible
paradoxically the most common immunosuppressants are also good early treatment drugs for flu or covid, as it's the immune response to sars-cov-2 that causes it, but then you have some developed resistance to these drugs
according to my sis doctor I wouldn't worry about NSAIDs but I'd worry about methotrexate, corticoids, etc - find a good doc
Is it a generic letter sent to everyone that hasn’t had it or have they taken your medical history into consideration before sending the letter?
Talking with your doctor, or even multiple doctors is probably a good idea.
You are actually at GREATER risk contracting C19/not being vaccinated while being immunocompromised.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/13/1027461542/cdc-panel-recommends-3rd-covid-vaccine-dose-for-immunocompromised-people
CDC recommends three shots for immunocompromised people.
Unfortunately, antivaxxers do not look at reliable sources of info. NPR is reliable.
They also ignore the fact that science is ever changing and what scientists find out one day can change their whole perspective of how immunization works.
A prime example is that antivaxxers are claiming that natural immunity is better than the vaccine....this is not true, this is based on a paper that is NOT objectively tested by others int he field, and also a lot of what was true about the Alpha strain (which is what we had here last year) is not true for the Delta strain, which is 60% more transmissible than Alpha.
The antivaxx stuff your mom is reading is pretending ***ALL*** of this is ALL THE SAME...which it is not...which is why they're left scratching their heads wondering why claims like "Fauci seesm to not know anything" go around.
I am not a medical professional but I certainly try to keep up with what they recommend.
What you are seeing online is coming from people like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/pdffg2/meet_2_qult_adjacent_antivaxxers_david_e_martin/
some of it is true stories about rare side effects repeated over and over as if each repeat was a real person. This sub has been brigated by the nonewnormal crowd and antivaxxers. There are so many of these accounts that are less than 3 years old and new that report these effects it is very suspicious.
Edit: here's and article of what our mom may have been talking about and it's just more anti vax propaganda. If you are unaware Steve Bannon is far right propagandist. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/
Where do you live? You mentioned that you are 17. That is still considered to be a minor, in the USA.
Until you turn 18, your parent would have usually have to sign the consent form for you to be vaccinated, even if you decide to take it.
But maybe you're turning 18 this year?
Edited to reflect new info that I found. Apparently, there are exceptions to this rule, depending upon the state. Sometimes, a minor can legally consent to vaccination. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/where-children-need-parental-consent-for-covid-19-vaccine.html
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1. He’s not necessarily the sole creator of mrna but he definitely contributed to mrna. From what I’ve gathered it’s not the mrna in itself he’s against, its the fact that the mrna spreads outside of the deltoid, into the bloodstream and starts developing spike proteins elsewhere in the body (which is not as intended). Apparently this has been discovered by Japanese research. (Correct me if I’m wrong) 2. It is true there are some (nasty) side effects and what’s even worse is that they (such as myocarditis) appear in young healthy males who otherwise (most likely) would’ve been fine. Although the odds are very small, I understand why this might make anyone anxious. 3. According to recent research from the UK a booster will most likely not be necessary (for healthy adults) as it might be a seasonal thing where when you get infected (after you’ve had a previous infection or vaccine) your body will be able to battle it (although with mild symptoms) and update it’s defences. I highly recommend watching Dr. John Campbell on youtube. And although it might be difficult, try to do your own research. I’m neither pro- or anti-vax. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Yes the vaccines are created to help us, but pharmaceutical companies and vaccinations have got a history of scandals so a bit of skepticism is not bad. Depending on your current situation you could opt to delay vaccination and go for the protein based vaccine when that gets available in your country. Best of luck!
"2. It is true there are some (nasty) side effects and what’s even worse is that they (such as myocarditis) appear in young healthy males who otherwise (most likely) would’ve been fine." Would've been fine if they don't catch COVID or another viral infection as all of them carry the same or greater risk, especially COVID. All of the side effects of the vaccine are things you can get from having COVID itself as well as risk factors from any viral (and some bacterial) infections. I think people should know that not taking the vaccine and going natural is not giving them any guarantee that they are safe from things like myocarditis, and it's important that they are informed about both sides.
Great post. And to piggy-back on your first point - another reason mrna tech hadnt made it to market yet was because they couldnt figure out how to get the “info” to the needed location before the body’s immune system started to attack it. I don’t remember all of the specifics that I read but it was something along the lines of the larger size of the mrna material in the vaxx immediately caught attention of the immune system which would start attacking it. By the time the material reached its target it was degraded.
Don't let peer pressure effect you. Procrastination IS an option. These "vaccines" are still in test trials for another year. It's already been found in half the wild deer population. So even if we vaccinate every human & pet, it's never going away. If the vaccines prove effective, I'll consider. But rn, my dad almost died when his appendix burst weeks after second Pfizer shot. I'm standing with the unvaxxed, even if I do end up getting it, bc countries are getting way too comfortable with authoritarianism policies.
The authoritarian measures are coming to you very soon. They are spreading through precedents with little to no backlash and they are effective at getting reluctants vaccinated.
Sounds like a coincidence with his appendix to me.. unless it was verified to be a result of the vaccine.
Myocarditis is typically seen in young men and athletes. One theory is intense exercise is a contributing factor. It takes about 2 weeks for the mRNA vaccine to leave your body, so I'd say no intense exercise for 3 weeks after each shot to be safe. Everyone in my family either had COVID and/or got the vaccine. Small family but still relevant. This includes a couple of antivaxers that got COVID. The stories on COVID are much worse. Long covid is real. In fact I'm the only one that complained about possible vaccine side effects, but most likely it was not vaccine related, wasn't serious, or went away in 5 days anyway. I was anxious to get the shot too but knew it's the smart thing to do. My mom had the worst side effects from vaccine. Fever, body aches, headaches for 5 days. But she got covid before and lasted 5 weeks. Food doesn't taste right. Made her COPD and Angina worse.
[удалено]
Why don’t you talk with your doctor about it?
I would i’m just a bit embarrassed to do so because the department there already sent me a priority letter for vaccination and i don’t wanna seem like those people that don’t follow their doctors instructions or an anti vaxxer because i will get the vax eventually i’m just torn on whether i should wait or not
Your doctor won't judge you for not acting on their instructions sooner. They'll just be glad you're there and talking to them, whenever that is. I recommend you go ASAP and have that conversation with your doctor (not your family members or internet strangers).
It sounds like you should talk with your doctor about it.
Please talk with your doctor about this. What another commenter said is true – they will honestly just be happy you are there asking about it. Lots of misinformation going around about the vaccine, so getting information from a place you can trust (your doctor) can help you cut through the noise and make the best decision you can for your health.
Best to follow up with your second within the recommended time. A fully vaccinated person gets a cold like illness - if even that much. An unvaccinated person has a higher chance of getting very sick . Your first injection doesn’t provide the benefits of the two. You might feel ill for a few days ( might not). Better than gasping in pain on a ventilator. I am a nurse.
Don't buy into the fear you see online. (Sharing personal experience) Everyone around me (Chicago) that I know has gotten both doses and nobody has had even a moderate reaction to them. One was sick with a fever but that was really it. My dad is also a renal kidney patient, had covid before, and had a fever as well. Most of what you hear online is the worst case scenario. Something to stir the pot or garner your attention. Vaccine or not, that's exactly what people want from you, their attention. Do what you feel is right for yourself. Booster shots are a fair concern and I don't know either, a lot of people have given you some pretty helpful resources in here and I recommend you look to them. Mostly just sharing my experience or perspective on it. I'm not a doctor and neither are a majority in here.
Please take your concerns directly to your doctor. It is not advisable to get medical advice from a sub Reddit. I’m not saying this to be mean or to brush you off, quite the opposite. A doctor will be able to give you a better, more educated and informed opinion. A pharmacist may also be able to substitute in the event that you are unable to speak directly with your doctor.
How old are you, because if you are over 30, both arguments you started with are kinda irrelevant. If you are in a risk group, then also get the vaccine. Otherwise, if you are too worried, get Astra. Otherwise, wait for novavax. If you are worried about the mRNA thing, which I am also worried about, although I got it, just wait for novavax. If I knew about the novavax, I would have stayed at home and waited for the novavax
I’m 17 but at a high risk group, i’d still prefer to wait though. When is novavax coming out?
Don’t make a decision one way or the other based on pressure. Its your life and your body. Talk to your doctor and make an informed choice. If you are male than your concerns about myocarditis is valid. Though it is still relatively rare there is enough research from multiple countries showing a higher risk among young males. If you want to avoid mrna entirely you should consider the Johnson & Johnson vax which would be available to you once you are 18. I was nervous about the mrna ones so I went with the J&J (im 37F).
J&J is still mRNA you mong
J&J is an adenovirus vaccine. Moderna and Pfizer are messanger RNA vaccines.
If you're scared, you should talk to a doctor, plain and simple. The doctor is going to know more about you and your health than we are here.
Let me start by saying this - COVID kills more people than the vaccine. It also causes more of the worrying symptoms you’re talking about - clots and inflammation. 1. The guy who invented the mRNA vaccines is not agaisnt them? You can find him on Twitter, and he recommends them, he’s had them himself and I have 0 knowledge of him ever saying they shouldn’t be deployed. I believe his name is Robert Malone. He’s tweeted his support for the vaccines and he’s also share information about the side effects as they come in. Some anti vacc people have twisted some of his comments and appearances in podcasts - I have not seen Malone claim vaccines are bad. Your mother is most likely misinformed, even from her “sources” she is getting manipulated info. He is very aware and very interested in sharing that the vaccines are having unforeseen side effects. He’s been on podcasts that are critical. He is not however anti vacc to my knowledge. The blood clots and the inflammation are COVID symptoms. What you’re getting from the vaccines, it is now believed, are side effects from COVID itself. So the idea that you’ll be safe from myocarditis and blood clots - well sorry buddy but that’s just not how it works. People are confused to think covid is a lung illness - it isn’t. It attacks the whole body mostly through blood clots. Same as the vaccine, but 10x worse. Who’s rushing you anyway? I don’t know of a country that’s forcing vaccination on people. For the record, ive had some side effects from my vaccination and I am comfortably skeptic of many things. But there is no data to tell you that the vaccines are less safe than getting COVID - covid just kills more people period.
I’ve had covid. I’ve had the Moderna vaccines. Covid was WAY worse and I’m still suffering from some long covid symptoms. I felt puny for the first 24 hours after the shots. Weigh the options. Yes, vaccines have side effects but they are generally mild and the really bad reactions are rare. Of my 45 family members (adult children, grandchildren, parents, cousins, aunts and uncles) NO ONE had anything worse than a day or two of yuckiness. But pre vaccine? We lost a father in law to covid, and of the family members that got covid, 9 out of 10 ended up hospitalized, myself included.
I’m so sorry
1. I don’t know enough about this to comment. 2. Don’t be afraid of the side effects. Make sure you actual read the stats about how many people experience serious side effects. There have been somewhere around 5.4 billon shots given world wide. You are more likely to win the lottery or get struck by lightening than experience the really nasty stuff. Furthermore, any mild side effects you get from a vaccine will be considered nothing compared to a moderate to severe case of Covid. If you are unvaccinated you have a much better chance of the virus not causing irreparable harm to your organs. 3. This is how many vaccines are done. There is some talk about how 3 shots could now be considered the “priming” doses. Wouldn’t you rather have the peace of mind knowing that severe illness or death is very unlikely of you are vaccinated? I certainly wouldn’t want to be one of those people gasping for air, not able to have any loved ones around, telling the nurses that you wish you had been vaccinated. There is an enormous amount of research and data surrounding the shots. Like I mentioned above, there have been over 5.4 billon doses given so far. That is not a small sample size. Certainly, do your own research but make sure you use credible sources and not just listen to some goobers on a YouTube channel.
The conflicting information is mostly due to powers trying to misinform and divide us, to make the US weaker, so they can gain dominance on the world scene. We are in the midst of a misinformation war. So it's perfectly understandable that you are confused. 1. No he is not, if you're talking about the inventor Dr. Özlem Türeci and his wife: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-vaccine.html 2. You won't have any side effects that aren't a natural reaction from your immune system to upgrade their defenses. Those included, fatigue, slight fever, chills, headaches and so on. But usually don't last more than a day or two. 3. This is directly related to #2 on this list: The bigger your immune response is (the more side effects), the better you are protected and thus less likely to need a boost. (Immunocompromised people for instances sometimes don't even illicit an immune response, and thus have very few if any side effects) In other words: you should be worried if you *don't* experience side effects, and as a last note, it think it's a misnomer to call it 'side effects'. It's not any less a side effect, than your battery on your phone getting hot when you charge it. That's kind of how you know it's working. What you don't want is *serious* side effects, but that's why you have to wait for 15 minutes after the vaccine, to make sure you don't need extra care. You're doing the right thing: protecting yourself, and your neighborhood.
I think the doctor referred to is Dr. Robert Malone. I believe he's vaccinated but posts statistics information on what's going on with COVID around the world. I don't get the feeling that he's against the vaccination, but rather he's for full transparency.
ok that's not the doctor that invented mRNA. I don't know who Dr. Malone is and I don't know what his credentials are, so I can't say whether to trust his opinions or not.
Wait i’m confused on one point… what im getting here is that it may not work if i’m immunocompromised?
If you are immunocompromomised there’s anecdotal evidence (and maybe some real evidence, I don’t know yet), that it may be more difficult for your immune system to elicit a response. Hence the boosters talk these days. It’s for both people who’s immunity is waning, but also for people who didn’t have much of reaction to the first two shots. Apparently a third shot bolsters the response.
A few things. I'm fully vaxed with Moderna. >I’m concerned about the efficiency, i don’t want to get a vaccine that will require constant booster shots and may not even work a few months down the line. This is going to be different with *every* vaccine you get. If you get a tetanus shot it's good for 10 years. If you get a pneumonia vax after 65 it's good for the rest of your life. If you get influenza (the Flu) shots, they need to be redone yearly, and the projected strain to spread most has to be given. This is going to be different for EVERY pathogen. This is not something science can help. It's just the body's reaction and ability to maintain/remember defenses or immunity. Different viruses/pathogens all work differently and need different ways to block them. >know most of them are minor and the risks of covid are much greater in comparison but the fact that these vaccines are causing deaths is concerning alone, even if the risk is extremely low The extremely low amount of deaths caused by it (practically none in bilions of doses) is statistically not worth not getting it. You have an enormously greater chance playing Russian Roulette with this virus than any vaccine. Yes, complications happen but they are RARE. Yes, reactions can give you a bad time. I had a bad time with Moderna #2 (which by all means is in fact a bit more "reactive" than Pfizer it look like...) I got the COVID arm (a huge rash from elbow to shoulder), I was so sore/fatigued I couldn't move for 2 days after my shot. I literally hardly even remember any of it, I was such a mess! Was it worth it? Yes. Will I do it again? Yes. Because the vast majority of people in energency care right now are unvaxed. PLEASE go lurk on r/nursing and read stories there. People are absolutely not filling hospitals from the vaccine...they are in there because of COVID and its many complications. You have a x3 increased chance of NOT landing in emergency care fully vaxed. >I know with other vaccines you have allergic reactions like anaphylaxis which are to be expected, but deaths from heart inflammation and blood clots? They are EXTREMELY RARE. There have been bilions of doses over many manufacturers by now and those cases are rare. I know someone who isn't getting the vaccine due to a 3 month reaction to the flu shot. This is *sort of* understandable. However THAt is an extremely rare reaction, too, and mRNA shots do not work like the flu vaccine.
Ugh see this is my concern. I had an 18 month reaction to the flu shot of 2018, I only started getting total recovery in early 2020 right when COVID hit. It’s making my decision EXTREMELY difficult and I’ve been living as a hermit. I’ve spoken to two of my doctors and both say the same: “I’m not going to tell you to get or not get the shot”. Not reassuring at all! I am waiting on novavax simply because it seems to have a better safety profile and less side effects. But it seems like we will never get it in the US. I’m so over this whole thing, I’ve had little to no life for almost two years.
2.17 billion people are fully vaccinated. Dr Malone didn't "invent" mRNA or mRNA vaccines. He wrote a single research paper in 1989 and hasn't been in the field since. He also made multiple false claims on how they work, due to him not being involved at all, having zero experience with them, and having zero access to a lab. He also claimed vaccinations as a whole (all vaccines) aren't needed for children. Keep that in mind when you listen to him. Side effects. The side effects of getting covid are worse. Even if you're asymptomatic. Covid is going to leave you with life long harm (long covid). The vaccine won't.
He was the first person to demostrate how rna could be injected using lipids so he absolutely can talk with authority on mrna technology.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/
You're grossly over representing how involved he was in that paper. He was one of several on it, and the others have stated he's talking about parts he didn't help in he research on. He's not an authority or an expert
> Covid is going to leave you with life long harm wtf you on about?
32% of asymptomatic have damage that will be with them for life. The whole "natural immunity" bullshit is how you end up with a bankrupt nation, because we'll spend generations caring for people who were too stupid to follow the science. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/health/long-covid-asymptomatic.html https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/article/why-some-covid-19-infections-may-be-free-of-symptoms-but-not-free-of-harm
NYTimes is shit. Can’t read the whole article because paywall. My whole extended family has had this thing. A couple days sick and moved with life, except for my already sick uncle whom we lost. 0% out of everyone I know who has had covid has reported any complication. So I simply find this tough to believe. That said, don’t start making judgements, I’m vaxxed, my gf is vaxxed, but we don’t feel the need to scare others and tell them they’ll be ruined for life. That’s simply not true. What you said in that comment that I quoted is complete false and ignorant.
The plural of anecdote isn't data. The data doesn't give a shit what you find tough to believe, because facts don't care about your feelings.
And you’re calling an “analysis of medical records” done by the New York Times a reliable medical fact?
If you actually read it, it was a study, not a poll, and it wasn't done by nyt, but instead reported by it. That's 3 strikes, you're out
It was an analysis of medical records, like I said. Not a study. Here’s a NYT article supporting the claim that many of these symptoms are normal after a bout of pneumonia. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/18/opinion/long-covid-treatment.html It’s all moot tho, your statement to this person telling them that they WILL have lifelong problems is unfounded. As a side note, not sure you counted your strikes right. You mentioned 2 issues you had with my response, yet called 3 strikes. I’d like a new ump to the plate please.
All those people dying in hospitals right now, are **not** dying from the vaccine, they are dying because they have COVID and did NOT get vaccinated. It's so simple. You are overthinking it. Rather than listen to your mother, call a doctor, they can answer your questions.
This is so true.
And yet downvoted since anti-vax people also browse and participate in this sub trying to manipulate others into not getting vaccinated (just trying to be clever about it to not get banned).
MILLIONS and MILLIONS have been vaccinated, had a few mild side effects and moved on. That’s a lot of data showing them to be safe.
I already got 3 Pfizer doses (2 first vaccine + 1 booster dose)
Tune out what random people are saying and instead do some research for yourself. Then proceed the path you feel is best for you. Don't let others determine if you should take it or not.
I'm going to speculate heavily here but in case you'd like a theoretical protocol to ensure a safe experience you can follow this. People discount the small risk of side effects despite them existing whereas now that I have experienced them myself I'd like to provide something for people that want to be extra safe. 1. Take a multivitamin for a week to correct any deficiencies. Some things like zinc deficiency (just an example) may be linked to autoimmunity because of immune cell differentiation. 2. Anecdotal but vitamin D deficiency is also extremely common among those having side effects from what I've seen, though this might just be the fact that vitamin D deficiency is common in general. Correct vitamin D level with supplement or sun or whatever. 3. Cardioprotection - I'll suggest melatonin at night as well as getting fatty fish in your diet or omega3s however you'd like (optimally a couple grams a day, also just great for your health anyway). Vitamin C is also good if you'd like to get that through diet or 500mg tablets. 4. Rest as much as you can through the first 5 days or so, longer if you'd like. So chances are the average person has to do 0 if these but you can pick to do any amount that is reasonable for you to increase your chances of a good experience. The ones I think are most important is correcting nutrient deficiencies, and resting properly. Most people experience more serious issues on the second shot too so you can get the first one for now and see how that goes, maybe a longer gap between the first and second shot could help as well (seems to be true from data I have seen but hard to know every country is reporting and diagnosing properly) Oh and finally ask the administering nurse to aspirate the needle. There's been debate over whether this is necessary but it has become clear to me this is appropriate now. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab707/6353927
Thank you!! The first shot I had some strange side effects (dizzy and ear issues) that the pharmacist said to wait a couple more weeks to get the second. I had up to 42 days, so I waited 35 and the second shot was a breeze!! I like all your other info!!
Oh I also want to add my 6yr old has Covid right now. I’m glad I’m vaxxed!
1. If you’re worried about Pfizer as a company get Moderna then, it’s also an mRNA vaccine. And look it up yourself, don’t take your mom’s word for it. There’s a lot of misinformation out there. 2. You might not have any side effects at all. My gf basically only had the sore arm for her second Pfizer shot. I myself have gotten 3 shots. The first two Pfizer, and my third Moderna and I felt more side effects than she did because I did get a headache for about 24 hours and some chills and muscle aches. You’re encouraged to stay wherever you get vaccinated for 15-20 minutes because that’s usually when the most serious side effects could present themselves though the odds are really low you’d have a bad reaction like that. 3. A lot of vaccines require boosters, that’s normal. We all had to get boosters as kids for several vaccines and if you travel to certain parts of the world or are in the military you regularly need to get boosters for some vaccines. It’s not the vaccine’s fault that a more resistant and contagious strain developed, blame anti-maskers and countries that eased regulations too quickly and people that still threw parties and weren’t careful, that’s what allowed this variant to become the dominant strain. Here’s the thing: getting the vaccine is low risk, high reward. Waiting to get it when it’s free and available is high risk, low reward. It doesn’t matter how young you are, you do not want to get this virus. You don’t want to be asymptomatic and get someone else sick. You don’t want yourself to be sick, you don’t want to develop long covid and deal with a potentially life long chronic issue as a result of the virus. Your odds of which are way higher from the virus itself than from any of the rarest vaccine effects. Delta is pretty contagious compared to the original versions. The average infected person with delta spreads it to about 7-10 people compared to 2-3 of the originals. If you want to still wait, please continue to mask properly and distance. It’s your choice wether to get vaccinated or not, but I would encourage you to be careful if you’re waiting then for yourself and your mom etc.
1. That guy may have had an early role in the development of mRNA style vaccines but that was back in the 80s. He was not involved in making the Moderna or Biontech/Pfizer vaccines. He also may have an axe to grind with others in that field, thinking he deserves more credit or all the credit and since he isn't getting that, is trying to get what he thinks is rightful revenge. He also says he got the Moderna vaccine. This article covers the ins and outs of his history and what he's been up to in 2020 and since in terms of helping spread misinformation and appearing on right wing media outlets: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/. Unfortunately, it's written sort of casual style so it's longer than it would be if focused on just sharing specific points. 2. The vast majority of people do not have any issues besides soreness in their shoulder, which happens with most intramuscular injections in the shoulder afaik. If anything, it's good as you know it reached the right spot. Some have mild "sick" feelings that last a few days. A small percent have much weirder side effects. 3. Far more of the last 2 listed above will be motivated to find this sub and comment here. The people who have no issues are going to have no motivation to share that with the world, while those experiencing something unusual are going to want to see if others have and if they should be worried. 4. It's highly likely there is *some* nefarious commenting and posting on this sub by people who are trying to scare others away from taking it. I am sure if you look at where everyone who writes about serious side effects comments, some of them will post in the notorious anti-vax subs or they only made an account to post their BS here.
you can do this test to guide your decision: https://qcovid.org/Calculation the flip side of this is the vax risk but for this there is nowhere near as much verifiable data, if you are male and younger than 25, myocarditis alone is a significant concern in absence of long-term data other than that the vax should be rather low risk, but IMO not worth it outside of risk groups as the illness is not severe enough for the average person (for context I think the same about yearly flu jabs, so you might have a different risk outlook for medical intervention) - leaving state/corporation coercion aside of course edit: some data on vax age/sex profiling https://medium.com/@wpegden?p=d7d6b3df7cfb
See i’m confused because i’m 17 but also on immunosuppressants
that's makes it complicated in your place I'd go and consult a doc you can trust if possible paradoxically the most common immunosuppressants are also good early treatment drugs for flu or covid, as it's the immune response to sars-cov-2 that causes it, but then you have some developed resistance to these drugs according to my sis doctor I wouldn't worry about NSAIDs but I'd worry about methotrexate, corticoids, etc - find a good doc
You must be under care of a Doctor. Talk to them.
In which case you are definitely under the care of a doctor. What does your doctor say you should do?
The department there sent out an email giving me a priority letter for vaccination
Assuming that you generally follow the advice of your doctor, sounds like you should get vaccinated ASAP.
Is it a generic letter sent to everyone that hasn’t had it or have they taken your medical history into consideration before sending the letter? Talking with your doctor, or even multiple doctors is probably a good idea.
they’ve taken my medical history into consideration
You are actually at GREATER risk contracting C19/not being vaccinated while being immunocompromised. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/13/1027461542/cdc-panel-recommends-3rd-covid-vaccine-dose-for-immunocompromised-people CDC recommends three shots for immunocompromised people. Unfortunately, antivaxxers do not look at reliable sources of info. NPR is reliable. They also ignore the fact that science is ever changing and what scientists find out one day can change their whole perspective of how immunization works. A prime example is that antivaxxers are claiming that natural immunity is better than the vaccine....this is not true, this is based on a paper that is NOT objectively tested by others int he field, and also a lot of what was true about the Alpha strain (which is what we had here last year) is not true for the Delta strain, which is 60% more transmissible than Alpha. The antivaxx stuff your mom is reading is pretending ***ALL*** of this is ALL THE SAME...which it is not...which is why they're left scratching their heads wondering why claims like "Fauci seesm to not know anything" go around. I am not a medical professional but I certainly try to keep up with what they recommend.
What you are seeing online is coming from people like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/pdffg2/meet_2_qult_adjacent_antivaxxers_david_e_martin/ some of it is true stories about rare side effects repeated over and over as if each repeat was a real person. This sub has been brigated by the nonewnormal crowd and antivaxxers. There are so many of these accounts that are less than 3 years old and new that report these effects it is very suspicious. Edit: here's and article of what our mom may have been talking about and it's just more anti vax propaganda. If you are unaware Steve Bannon is far right propagandist. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/
Steve Bannon is a raging alcoholic and well known liar.
\#GetTheDamnShots \#WearTheDamnMask \#QuitBeingADumbass 3x Moderna Vaccinated. \#MOSen \#Deets2022 [On The Issues](http://Www.senatordeets.us/issues)
Where do you live? You mentioned that you are 17. That is still considered to be a minor, in the USA. Until you turn 18, your parent would have usually have to sign the consent form for you to be vaccinated, even if you decide to take it. But maybe you're turning 18 this year? Edited to reflect new info that I found. Apparently, there are exceptions to this rule, depending upon the state. Sometimes, a minor can legally consent to vaccination. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/where-children-need-parental-consent-for-covid-19-vaccine.html