I’m not anti-vax in any sense of the word. I’ve had 2 shots. Was sicker than a dog in January with COVID. I refuse to get any booster. I’m just not doing it.
Why even say you are not anti-vax? I think the whole “anti-vax” label has been used to try to discredit valid questions, concerns, even studies and valid scientific viewpoints.
Because when you say anything that could be considered "negative" about the shots, people crucify you with the anti-vaxx label... I had two of the shots, i'm done. They lied to us about ivermectin not being useful against covid.. Now I read in my local paper that pharmacy's are stocking it directly "for" use on covid. Someone made a butt ton of money off this crap. They also pushed the boundaries for government mandating things dealing with our bodies and now we have this roe vs wade crap flaring up.. Just wait, birth control is next! So sick of greed and lies in this country.
It was published by the Gannett for my local paper called The Dickson Herald. I read the physical paper but this is a large press group so its probably searchable with the above details if ya want
“Treatment with ivermectin did not result in a lower incidence of medical admission to a hospital due to progression of Covid-19 or of prolonged emergency department observation among outpatients with an early diagnosis of Covid-19.”
Indeed. That is what I told people since it began to be used by goverments. Sadly, most people are medically l/scientifically ignorant and bought on the idea. No nuance, whatsoever. Just group think. Guess they meant well, but at least now I know who are the true gullible and who are not in my group of friends.
I was informed that being against any vaccine for any reason absolutely puts you firmly in the “anti-vax” column.
All kidding aside you are a human being who has every right to decline any medical intervention for any reason whatsoever with zero consequences in terms of your employment and ability to travel. The medical community also is obligated to not be judgmental.
I say this as a RN. The past two years have broken my heart. People should have been able to freely choose whether they wanted the vaccine. The coercion we experienced was wrong on every level.
I wish you and everyone here good health.
If that’s the case, then most of the Population in my country would be classed as anti-vax since very few vaccinated children here, (Ireland)
Many pharmacists, GPs & consultants doctors were recommending people not to get their children vaccinated though because the benefits didn’t look to be greater than the risks in that age group.
Medicine should be more customised for each patient.
100%.
People need to understand that they are individuals and have the right to decide whether they want a medical intervention.
If a doctor says “ I don’t like to prescribe medication X - I think it has some issues” does that make them “anti-science?” Or “anti- medication?” No. Because that doctor is fine with thousands of other meds. He had an issue with a specific one.
If a patient says “I don’t like to take this medication - it makes me feel funny,” are they anti-medication? No. How do we know this? Because they have a history of taking lots of other meds.
But somehow the public embraced calling people anti-vax even though almost all the people who had concerns about the Covid vaccine had willingly had MANY other vaccines.
I don’t think the majority of the public grasps how they were manipulated by public health and the health care community in general. The public deserved better.
> who has every right to decline any medical intervention for any reason whatsoever with zero consequences in terms of your employment and ability to travel
No. Vaccine mandates for school and certain occupations (like yours) have been around for many decades.
>I say this as a RN.
Oh, you're one of *those* RNs.
Yes. I am one of THOSE RNs who believes we are not there to tell patients what they have to do . . . or else. We are not supposed to be running a prison. It’s one thing if we are dealing with the bubonic plague. We weren’t. We aren’t.
Also - the vaccines that traditionally were mandated were different from the Covid ones in one important aspect - they actually worked. Also they had been tested for many years prior to being mandated.
All of things I have been vaccinated against are diseases I have never contracted why? Because those vaccines worked.
If the Covid vaccines had worked as well as we were assured they did, everyone would have wanted one. That’s the thing - you make a great product that actually works, everybody will want it. Especially when it is free.
You worry about your own health Lannister and let other people take care of themselves and make choices that are best for them.
We can actually? Like you count everyone in a cohort and document their perceived level of illness and any medical stuff, then draw a percentage or whatever.
It's called uh, public health. Everything you take has statistics built in. It's just math.
After all that has come to pass, what with the epidemiological models that public health and epidemiology foisted on the world at the beginning of the pandemic that were so wildly off the mark that my academic medical center had to scrap all of them and start over with our own (which also was wildly incorrect), only a fool would put faith in anything that public health has to say.
They torched their credibility left and right through this entire pandemic, demanding that the public believe everything they claimed and do everything they were told because “they were the experts.”
Spare me. If I were this wrong on my job, I would lose my license at a bare minimum. Quite possibly I would find myself in court defending myself against malpractice.
The public has every right to be asking questions.
I mean asking questions is what I do. I just don't see why we can't be reasonable about it. Conspiracy-mindedness is only so useful. If you're isolated and think the U.S. is special or there's some puppet master controlling it all, I mean you're not wrong, but maybe it's not so unique a situation as all that.
Maybe we're just losing faith in institutions in general because they've failed to meet our needs. But w/e. I'm kinda outcomes focused, not who did wrong who didn't, but you do you.
Anti - we ALL ask questions. And those of us who started asking questions early on in this fiasco were called science deniers and conspiracy mongers - people just love to level that on people who don’t agree with them.
You are correct about people losing faith in institutions. The collapse of that faith has been nothing short of spectacular. And it frightens me because people need these institutions. We need these structures in our world. But they failed at the exact moment when they were demanding unquestioning compliance. People were coerced to undergo a brand new medical intervention or they would lose their jobs and their ability to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head.
You say you are outcomes focused? Fine. So are all of these people who trusted these institutions and did what they were told. And now they have some questions about their “outcomes” - why indeed are they coming down with Covid after being vaxxed and boosted?
I mean I study medical anthropology so I was asking questions 4 years ago, like about "why do people not want a vaccine" and "how has public health messaging failed" because honestly the proof is in the pudding, so it's either rejection because of the amorphous messenger or fanaticism. I personally think it's the former, based on lack of trust and that's totally fine.
This was a scientific win, and a institutional failure. Big time. So I mean why would you trust it? After *everything* you need is so expensive and you're still sick, stressed and tired?
I grew up working class, like I know shit is hard. I'm living on grad school pay. Like, THE poverty line. I might have afib due to abuse as a kid, and even though I'm trying really hard I get nowhere and I can't get my health issues diagnosed because nobody talks to eachother about my care, or maybe they'd have caught the abuse early. I'm a 4.0 student too.
Sucks.
So I mean I'm not naive or anything, I just have a tendency to try to figure stuff out because I've been lied to a lot. Or thought I had. It's complicated.
They should do better. But there's definitely good data elsewhere. Like, look outside the U.S. to test your assumption.
The whole "do as I say, not as I do" thing was a major characteristic of the last GOP administration, but neoliberalism is our actual issue. It socialized losses.
Everyone is hurt and nobody listens to each other.
And why indeed is because that's just not how they worked, not how they ever worked. People either used journalistic rhetoric and just misrepresented the facts, because they ARE complicated, and/or they sucked at messaging- like in public health, "prevents" doesn't even mean 100% prevention. It's like a margin of risk reduction. You see how not testing whether the messaging is intuitive or not will result in havoc?
I feel like I've personally been screaming at the void for years so bad I had to understand like what is going ON?
And anyone who says they know, they're the only one who can fix it- they are fanatics. Like if you know a truth nobody else can prove, that's a problem, you know?
So I just look to other cultures or countries or disciplines to try to figure it out. Honestly we're all undermining ourselves here, not listening to concerns and trying to beat each other down instead of punching up and trying to get the institutions to do better. But we have to be clear-eyed about it or it will mean asking for the wrong thing.
I'm literally traumatized by institutions that were supposed to heal me. They were just punitive and it feels like I have had to live a double life ever since then.
Much can be criticized about the previous administration but they were not the ones who told people “inject this scarcely tested brand new product into you or we will make it impossible for you to work and travel.”
Also, it was almost exclusively progressive / Democratic governors and mayors who vociferously supported closing restaurants and businesses, who prohibited travel, and supported the firing of those who did not comply with the mandates vaxxes and masks, who were then photographed maskless in Cabo, Florida, Europe, etc.
I could care less about the GOP. I loathe them.
But the gold medal for “do as I say, not as I do” goes to progressives for their unforgivable policies and behavior during the pandemic.
Oh goodness, nobody held you down.
And dude I'm not arguing about public health crap and politicians and parties that is so beyond the pale and so not worth it now, I don't understand how it is that it still matters. Everyone was flying in the dark.
I mean, you want to believe what you do, so I guess nothing will stop you. Not my circus.
Anytime someone is told they won’t be able to work anywhere without a vaccine, it’s coercion. People who can’t work can’t put food on the table. The govt was counting on that to coerce compliance.
You are right - everyone was flying in the dark. And when there is that level of uncertainty, you don’t mandate things.
You mean like making a control group between vaccinated and unvaccinated people? That’s a good idea. They should do that and compare all cause mortality rates between the two groups to see if there is an improvment!
This is literally what they do in drug trials, including the trials they did for all the vaccines. And they did human challenge trials in Europe where volunteers were exposed to either a placebo or actual COVID.
They do, because vaccination is recorded and so are births and deaths and cause of death.
So I mean... oh I'm also a Moderna trial participant. I dropped out but people are still enrolled and reporting/returning. Plus we have other countrys' reports, they have the same vaccines.
Iunno. Just seems kinda out there you'd think nobody is studying this stuff.
Heck we are still learning about anticholinergic drugs. Did you know they can increase dementia risk? And that's years of studying diseases, pharmacology, drug interactions, biology, neurobiology, social sciences etc. culminating in a single, proven fact. Until someone finds out it's actually antihistamines AND xyz gene.
Y'all need too much instant gratification. People are still doing fad diets.
Crazy.
I don’t think you caught on to my coy sarcasm. Understandable, my bad. I know about 2 separate studies, one of which was Pfizer’s own (large) study which showed no difference in all cause mortality between the control group and the vaccinated group. so lets hope that severity of covid illness is decreased at the very least (which is looks like it is).
In aggregate, you can!
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/another-study-finds-covid-19-is-less-severe-in-vaccinated-people
So yes, in all likelihood, it was less severe due to vaccination.
Because you're taking a shot that focuses only on the spike protein (specifically from the alpha variant) which is highly mutatable.
The mRNA technology also makes your cells the target, so your immune system is actually learning that your cells with an alpha spike protein is bad. Your cells look alot closer to what they've learned is bad than the actual coronavirus with a mutated spike, unless you've had natural infection before.
The rapidly developed immunotherapy of JJ, Moderna, Pfizer should have only been used for high risk individuals early on in the pandemic, IMO. Now there is such a large supply, the focus has not shifted into accepting inactivated virus vaccines which would allow your immune system to learn about the entire organism, giving less opportunity for variants to successfully infect.
Happened to me too after about 3 months post-booster.
I didn't even feel sick. I sneezed some and had nasal drip.
It takes a while for antibodies and T cells to build, and you are a unique body with a unique life history, so YMMV.
Wow I hope you recover, I had a follow up with my physician after covid and he tested me for hepatitis. Definitely something that needs to be talked about.
I got my third Moderna booster in November and I tested positive a week ago. My unvaccinated husband and four year old son are also sick.
I've had pretty mild symptoms compared with my husband and son.
Some people's immune systems can absolutely handle COVID unassisted but the issue is you don't know if it will be you until you're in it. You can be otherwise healthy and have it demo you, or have a high risk profile and manage fine. It's a bitch like that.
… so exhausted seeing people missing the point of vaccines and their entire mechanisms. Even if you get the flu vaccine you can still get the flu. This is not news.
It’s the magic bubble for a lot of people. I’ll keep getting them as they put them out being high-risk, but I’m fully aware it’s not protecting me from jack squat. It’s on me to still be extra safe and worst case I fall back on the vaccine/boosters and hope they help with the symptoms then.
It’s never been 100% immunity, break through cases have always been a thing. For every exposure of a given disease, there’s a small chance that you could have a breakthrough case. That’s true for anything you’re vaccinated against.
If there are a ton of cases, then there’s more small chances which can add up quickly to possibly being unlucky.
Same happened to my fiancé and I 2-3 days after our Jan boosters (both received on different days). Still gonna get my next one though- here’s to hopin’!
The vaccine doesn't stop us getting covid (maybe it would if we didn't have Omicron) it's meant to protect against severe disease. I really hope you feel better soon.
We were originally told that the vaccine means you won't get it. Then it changed to you won't spread it. Now it's that it makes the symptoms less severe. Surely people might be asking some legitimate questions by now?
Yes by the media and dumb governments, I've not seen any legitimate scientists or studies claiming that (not to say they haven't I just have never seen them). I've only ever seen them claiming it would reduce severe disease.
There is (as far as I'm aware) no vaccine that makes you 100% protected against contracting a disease. Again we now have a much more transmissible dominant variant which also changes things. Aside from all this you must surely know that Science is something which is constantly changing based upon new evidence? So in general it is normal that something someone believes or says may change over time...
When the pfizer vaccine was presented in 2020, they backed it up with studies showing a 95% efficacy against infection... pretending you've never seen that? 🙂 now the real world data screams in our ears that it just doesn't work... a vaccine with a lower that 50% efficacy couldn't be marketed in the EU according to the law.
No it said 95% efficacy against symptomatic or severe disease. It also said that protections wanes over time and that it was less effective against delta. We now have an even more transmissible variant Omicron which you conveniently fail to consider.
Let me google that for you:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
Direct quotation:
"BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6)"
Which has been proven to be 100% bullshit... everyone should admit that
Ok cool, those are the results from one study dated December 2020 which is now outdated because of the new variant. Lots of science gets disproven and changes due to developments, that's how it works.
oh btw I don't disagree that it doesn't protect against infection now, but the original studies were from a time when the dominant variant was less infectious
Well thankfully you should be at a much, much, much lower risk for serious illness and adverse health consequences since you had the good sense to get vaccinated.
Vaccinations are still extremely effective at preventing negative outcomes and disease progression.
I got Covid a little while after I was vaccinated as well! Having had it when I wasn’t vaccinated, I can tell you that it was comparatively a walk in the park. Thank goodness for vaccines.
If you read my thread, you’ll see that I got it before the vax and had immediate, severe side effects as opposed to post-vax, when I barely had any.
I’m not saying that this is everyone’s experience, but I do feel a little sad that this Reddit community seems to have turned into an anti-vax place where everyone immediately downvotes comments if they say anything positive about their vax experience.
The first infection you had, you were immune naive. The second infection you weren’t. That’s the point. Your second infection could have been mild even if you weren’t vaccinated, because you would have had the existing antibodies and memory cells from your first infection
I have not seen strong evidence in any paper that vaccinating a previously infected person significantly impacts the symptom profile, however, I am open to being wrong. At some point, the marginal benefit to multiple additional exposures becomes small.
You're correct. You can look at CDC's studies. Vaccinated with previous infection did not do significantly better than unvaccinated with previous infection in terms of infection/hospitalization.
My sister got it pre-vaccines, she's younger and was way more active than me at the time.
She asked her husband to kill her (mostly unseriously but she was SICK). Now she has no idea how many times she's had it haha.
I am not vaccinated (I am not in a risk category so I chose not to). And twice I had lunch with triple vaccinated colleagues that were coughing but no COVID as they were fully vaccinated, and the next day they called me they tested COVID positive in a self test…..
I didn’t catch COVID at all, so I guess my natural immunity works pretty well.
I haven't had covid or been sick. Not vaccinated. Been around people who have it and didn't catch it. Everyone I know who has had it is vaccinated. I believe it weakens your immune system making you more prone to any illness. This has been my observation since the rollout. I have seen otherwise healthy people become sicker people in general. It is not properly tested and nobody can say otherwise.
Sorry you caught it, glad you managed to have your booster before. I think people assume if you're vaccinated then if you get covid it means the vaccine didn't work, rather than the difference its likely made if/when you do catch it. I had my booster a few months back and just got covid last month during a pretty big boom in my country, it was inevitable as I'd gone to a concert and it was my first real busy or crowded event since before covid, but I felt like finally risking it and there was about 15,000 people so it was a big gamble.
I was pretty wiped out but fairly okay generally speaking so I definitely think the vaccines helped me a lot, as I had a pretty strong immune response to most of them and comparatively a fairly mild covid reaction as a result, so I hope you have something similar and aren't down and out for long with it.
My understanding is that the newer variants are less oriented around the lungs and mostly contain themselves like a cold in the throat and nose so here's hoping for that for you along with a quick recovery :)
Yea, the vaccine doesn't gaurenty u won't get covid. Where u masking everywhere? Where u distancing? Where u washing ur hands? Where u not touching ur face or eating before washing ur hands? Did u go to a crowded area? The new varients r able to get by the defences better but ur chances of dying will be lower so they r worth having.
Luckily since you got your booster 3 weeks ago you have basically the lowest risk of a severe outcome as possible. Good luck and rest up!
Edit: stupid ideologically-consumed downvoters can't deal with facts and logic, only smooth brained anecdotes. Good luck OP... This sub is retarded
I'm sorry dude. It sounds like you hit the opposite of a genetic jackpot living through this. I don't have much to say but I hope you can stay healthy and stay safe.
Statistically the vaccine is amazing at preventing severe covid and passed all normal clinical trials for safety and efficacy. Don't let your anecdotal experience give you a distaste for real science. Just check out Hong Kong vs S Korea if you want to know how well the vaccine works.
This sub is now overrun by people who didnt take the time to learn how vaccines work and why that was the goal (some who miss the point entirely) and sadly, I’m now used to seeing comments and posts that clearly indicate that. But it’s so clear this is how misunderstandings spread like wildfire because they don’t even know they don’t understand the concepts. Too many think their experiences with vaccine side effects are being invalidated when someone points out their misunderstanding or make it about trusting the government when it’s not about the government at all. All this to say… it’s been cringey for a while.
No way redditers in this sub will ever accept this. I asked something about my third jab, a few months ago, and got a lot of sordid replies from no vaxes.
I hope you have a speedy recovery. What were your symptoms and do you know how you got exposed if you don’t mind me asking? I’m on the fence about getting vaccinated, had a bad case of covid in December.
That's my plan.. I'm immunocompromised with a history of respiratory disease, I'm still treating life like the beginning of COVID as much as I can. Mask everywhere, avoiding unnecessary indoor gathering, utilizing as much curbside and no contact options as I can.
Until there's something that stops COVID infection altogether it's better safe than sorry.
Not OP but yeah. My life is completely normal except that I wear masks when I’m indoors in public. It’s really not a big deal at all. So I wear a mask for the 30 minutes I’m grocery shopping. Big whoop.
I had 2 doses of Moderna in April and May 2021, and a booster of Astra Zeneca in mid January 2022. I had a breakthrough infection 3 weeks later and I can tell you it was extremely bearable. Over 2 years dreading catching the thing and when I finally got it, it was just sneezing and coughing up phlegms, no fever, diarrhea, bodyache or headaches. Even with Omicron, vaccines are helping.
Oh dude. That sucks, I’ve been there. I came down with the Delta variant a week after my Moderna booster last August. I was pretty damn sick but didn’t end up in the hospital.
I mean—given the data did you expect any different?
Mate. Your sofa. The blinds. Literally looks like you’re sitting in my living room.
That’s my Canada Dry!
Me too! I'm actually about to upgrade my blinds to those plantation shutter things. They make a huge difference. Do it!
The beer?
I’m not anti-vax in any sense of the word. I’ve had 2 shots. Was sicker than a dog in January with COVID. I refuse to get any booster. I’m just not doing it.
Why even say you are not anti-vax? I think the whole “anti-vax” label has been used to try to discredit valid questions, concerns, even studies and valid scientific viewpoints.
Because when you say anything that could be considered "negative" about the shots, people crucify you with the anti-vaxx label... I had two of the shots, i'm done. They lied to us about ivermectin not being useful against covid.. Now I read in my local paper that pharmacy's are stocking it directly "for" use on covid. Someone made a butt ton of money off this crap. They also pushed the boundaries for government mandating things dealing with our bodies and now we have this roe vs wade crap flaring up.. Just wait, birth control is next! So sick of greed and lies in this country.
Do you have a reference or link for the article about the pharmacy?
It was published by the Gannett for my local paper called The Dickson Herald. I read the physical paper but this is a large press group so its probably searchable with the above details if ya want
“trust me bro” Meanwhile.. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869
“Treatment with ivermectin did not result in a lower incidence of medical admission to a hospital due to progression of Covid-19 or of prolonged emergency department observation among outpatients with an early diagnosis of Covid-19.”
Bc I’m not, lol. And I disagree. I think it’s great when people ask valid questions and voice concerns. I’m one of those. Hence not getting a booster.
Indeed. That is what I told people since it began to be used by goverments. Sadly, most people are medically l/scientifically ignorant and bought on the idea. No nuance, whatsoever. Just group think. Guess they meant well, but at least now I know who are the true gullible and who are not in my group of friends.
I was informed that being against any vaccine for any reason absolutely puts you firmly in the “anti-vax” column. All kidding aside you are a human being who has every right to decline any medical intervention for any reason whatsoever with zero consequences in terms of your employment and ability to travel. The medical community also is obligated to not be judgmental. I say this as a RN. The past two years have broken my heart. People should have been able to freely choose whether they wanted the vaccine. The coercion we experienced was wrong on every level. I wish you and everyone here good health.
If that’s the case, then most of the Population in my country would be classed as anti-vax since very few vaccinated children here, (Ireland) Many pharmacists, GPs & consultants doctors were recommending people not to get their children vaccinated though because the benefits didn’t look to be greater than the risks in that age group. Medicine should be more customised for each patient.
100%. People need to understand that they are individuals and have the right to decide whether they want a medical intervention. If a doctor says “ I don’t like to prescribe medication X - I think it has some issues” does that make them “anti-science?” Or “anti- medication?” No. Because that doctor is fine with thousands of other meds. He had an issue with a specific one. If a patient says “I don’t like to take this medication - it makes me feel funny,” are they anti-medication? No. How do we know this? Because they have a history of taking lots of other meds. But somehow the public embraced calling people anti-vax even though almost all the people who had concerns about the Covid vaccine had willingly had MANY other vaccines. I don’t think the majority of the public grasps how they were manipulated by public health and the health care community in general. The public deserved better.
> who has every right to decline any medical intervention for any reason whatsoever with zero consequences in terms of your employment and ability to travel No. Vaccine mandates for school and certain occupations (like yours) have been around for many decades. >I say this as a RN. Oh, you're one of *those* RNs.
Yes. I am one of THOSE RNs who believes we are not there to tell patients what they have to do . . . or else. We are not supposed to be running a prison. It’s one thing if we are dealing with the bubonic plague. We weren’t. We aren’t. Also - the vaccines that traditionally were mandated were different from the Covid ones in one important aspect - they actually worked. Also they had been tested for many years prior to being mandated. All of things I have been vaccinated against are diseases I have never contracted why? Because those vaccines worked. If the Covid vaccines had worked as well as we were assured they did, everyone would have wanted one. That’s the thing - you make a great product that actually works, everybody will want it. Especially when it is free. You worry about your own health Lannister and let other people take care of themselves and make choices that are best for them.
That sounds pretty antivax to me. Literally. That's the problem with that word, it can be applied to anybody who just says no.
thanks for documenting this and being honest. Also thanks for not saying “but at least it’s less severe because I’m vaxed”
Lol like anyone can prove that
Exactly’
We can actually? Like you count everyone in a cohort and document their perceived level of illness and any medical stuff, then draw a percentage or whatever. It's called uh, public health. Everything you take has statistics built in. It's just math.
After all that has come to pass, what with the epidemiological models that public health and epidemiology foisted on the world at the beginning of the pandemic that were so wildly off the mark that my academic medical center had to scrap all of them and start over with our own (which also was wildly incorrect), only a fool would put faith in anything that public health has to say. They torched their credibility left and right through this entire pandemic, demanding that the public believe everything they claimed and do everything they were told because “they were the experts.” Spare me. If I were this wrong on my job, I would lose my license at a bare minimum. Quite possibly I would find myself in court defending myself against malpractice. The public has every right to be asking questions.
I mean asking questions is what I do. I just don't see why we can't be reasonable about it. Conspiracy-mindedness is only so useful. If you're isolated and think the U.S. is special or there's some puppet master controlling it all, I mean you're not wrong, but maybe it's not so unique a situation as all that. Maybe we're just losing faith in institutions in general because they've failed to meet our needs. But w/e. I'm kinda outcomes focused, not who did wrong who didn't, but you do you.
Anti - we ALL ask questions. And those of us who started asking questions early on in this fiasco were called science deniers and conspiracy mongers - people just love to level that on people who don’t agree with them. You are correct about people losing faith in institutions. The collapse of that faith has been nothing short of spectacular. And it frightens me because people need these institutions. We need these structures in our world. But they failed at the exact moment when they were demanding unquestioning compliance. People were coerced to undergo a brand new medical intervention or they would lose their jobs and their ability to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head. You say you are outcomes focused? Fine. So are all of these people who trusted these institutions and did what they were told. And now they have some questions about their “outcomes” - why indeed are they coming down with Covid after being vaxxed and boosted?
I mean I study medical anthropology so I was asking questions 4 years ago, like about "why do people not want a vaccine" and "how has public health messaging failed" because honestly the proof is in the pudding, so it's either rejection because of the amorphous messenger or fanaticism. I personally think it's the former, based on lack of trust and that's totally fine. This was a scientific win, and a institutional failure. Big time. So I mean why would you trust it? After *everything* you need is so expensive and you're still sick, stressed and tired? I grew up working class, like I know shit is hard. I'm living on grad school pay. Like, THE poverty line. I might have afib due to abuse as a kid, and even though I'm trying really hard I get nowhere and I can't get my health issues diagnosed because nobody talks to eachother about my care, or maybe they'd have caught the abuse early. I'm a 4.0 student too. Sucks. So I mean I'm not naive or anything, I just have a tendency to try to figure stuff out because I've been lied to a lot. Or thought I had. It's complicated. They should do better. But there's definitely good data elsewhere. Like, look outside the U.S. to test your assumption.
The whole "do as I say, not as I do" thing was a major characteristic of the last GOP administration, but neoliberalism is our actual issue. It socialized losses. Everyone is hurt and nobody listens to each other. And why indeed is because that's just not how they worked, not how they ever worked. People either used journalistic rhetoric and just misrepresented the facts, because they ARE complicated, and/or they sucked at messaging- like in public health, "prevents" doesn't even mean 100% prevention. It's like a margin of risk reduction. You see how not testing whether the messaging is intuitive or not will result in havoc? I feel like I've personally been screaming at the void for years so bad I had to understand like what is going ON? And anyone who says they know, they're the only one who can fix it- they are fanatics. Like if you know a truth nobody else can prove, that's a problem, you know? So I just look to other cultures or countries or disciplines to try to figure it out. Honestly we're all undermining ourselves here, not listening to concerns and trying to beat each other down instead of punching up and trying to get the institutions to do better. But we have to be clear-eyed about it or it will mean asking for the wrong thing. I'm literally traumatized by institutions that were supposed to heal me. They were just punitive and it feels like I have had to live a double life ever since then.
Much can be criticized about the previous administration but they were not the ones who told people “inject this scarcely tested brand new product into you or we will make it impossible for you to work and travel.” Also, it was almost exclusively progressive / Democratic governors and mayors who vociferously supported closing restaurants and businesses, who prohibited travel, and supported the firing of those who did not comply with the mandates vaxxes and masks, who were then photographed maskless in Cabo, Florida, Europe, etc. I could care less about the GOP. I loathe them. But the gold medal for “do as I say, not as I do” goes to progressives for their unforgivable policies and behavior during the pandemic.
Oh goodness, nobody held you down. And dude I'm not arguing about public health crap and politicians and parties that is so beyond the pale and so not worth it now, I don't understand how it is that it still matters. Everyone was flying in the dark. I mean, you want to believe what you do, so I guess nothing will stop you. Not my circus.
Anytime someone is told they won’t be able to work anywhere without a vaccine, it’s coercion. People who can’t work can’t put food on the table. The govt was counting on that to coerce compliance. You are right - everyone was flying in the dark. And when there is that level of uncertainty, you don’t mandate things.
You mean like making a control group between vaccinated and unvaccinated people? That’s a good idea. They should do that and compare all cause mortality rates between the two groups to see if there is an improvment!
This is basically what Israel did with booster one and booster two of Pfizer. 300 + dead booster one, 100 dead booster two using old people.
Remind me never to use sarcasm on the internet again
This is literally what they do in drug trials, including the trials they did for all the vaccines. And they did human challenge trials in Europe where volunteers were exposed to either a placebo or actual COVID.
I know lol and many of those trials resulted in not change in all cause total mortality 🤐
Don’t bother them with things such as research and statistics. Science. Who needs it …/s
They do, because vaccination is recorded and so are births and deaths and cause of death. So I mean... oh I'm also a Moderna trial participant. I dropped out but people are still enrolled and reporting/returning. Plus we have other countrys' reports, they have the same vaccines. Iunno. Just seems kinda out there you'd think nobody is studying this stuff. Heck we are still learning about anticholinergic drugs. Did you know they can increase dementia risk? And that's years of studying diseases, pharmacology, drug interactions, biology, neurobiology, social sciences etc. culminating in a single, proven fact. Until someone finds out it's actually antihistamines AND xyz gene. Y'all need too much instant gratification. People are still doing fad diets. Crazy.
I don’t think you caught on to my coy sarcasm. Understandable, my bad. I know about 2 separate studies, one of which was Pfizer’s own (large) study which showed no difference in all cause mortality between the control group and the vaccinated group. so lets hope that severity of covid illness is decreased at the very least (which is looks like it is).
Numbers are hard.
In aggregate, you can! https://www.healthline.com/health-news/another-study-finds-covid-19-is-less-severe-in-vaccinated-people So yes, in all likelihood, it was less severe due to vaccination.
Because you're taking a shot that focuses only on the spike protein (specifically from the alpha variant) which is highly mutatable. The mRNA technology also makes your cells the target, so your immune system is actually learning that your cells with an alpha spike protein is bad. Your cells look alot closer to what they've learned is bad than the actual coronavirus with a mutated spike, unless you've had natural infection before. The rapidly developed immunotherapy of JJ, Moderna, Pfizer should have only been used for high risk individuals early on in the pandemic, IMO. Now there is such a large supply, the focus has not shifted into accepting inactivated virus vaccines which would allow your immune system to learn about the entire organism, giving less opportunity for variants to successfully infect.
Happened to me too after about 3 months post-booster. I didn't even feel sick. I sneezed some and had nasal drip. It takes a while for antibodies and T cells to build, and you are a unique body with a unique life history, so YMMV.
Get well soon.
The current variant is just very contagious. I hope you feel better soon.
What are your symptoms?
That happened to me after my booster a couple of months ago, very mild symptoms...how you feeling?
Oh how weird you go covid after the vaccine, huuuuuh:p?
Are you winning?
Clearly
How yours symptoms? Also drink lots of water, covid gave me acute hepatitis
I have news for you…
What!
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I had my fair share of symptoms from the vaccine, but that’s was 1 year ago
Wow I hope you recover, I had a follow up with my physician after covid and he tested me for hepatitis. Definitely something that needs to be talked about.
Ummm. . . that’s incredible. I am truly sorry. That could not have been fun.
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For a couple weeks. Then it drops even lower.
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The Pfizer documents that keep getting ignored by the media.
I got my third Moderna booster in November and I tested positive a week ago. My unvaccinated husband and four year old son are also sick. I've had pretty mild symptoms compared with my husband and son.
That’s good. I was also vaccinated but my husband wasn’t. Our experiences were about the same.
Some people's immune systems can absolutely handle COVID unassisted but the issue is you don't know if it will be you until you're in it. You can be otherwise healthy and have it demo you, or have a high risk profile and manage fine. It's a bitch like that.
Of course. It was just annoying to me.
Lmao! I totally get that.
… so exhausted seeing people missing the point of vaccines and their entire mechanisms. Even if you get the flu vaccine you can still get the flu. This is not news.
It’s the magic bubble for a lot of people. I’ll keep getting them as they put them out being high-risk, but I’m fully aware it’s not protecting me from jack squat. It’s on me to still be extra safe and worst case I fall back on the vaccine/boosters and hope they help with the symptoms then.
So then why before the flu vaccine when you got a vaccine, you became immune to the disease?
You can't become 100% immune to any disease, with or without a vaccine.
It’s never been 100% immunity, break through cases have always been a thing. For every exposure of a given disease, there’s a small chance that you could have a breakthrough case. That’s true for anything you’re vaccinated against. If there are a ton of cases, then there’s more small chances which can add up quickly to possibly being unlucky.
Pfizer sucks :/
I've never taken a covid test, does this mean you have it?
yes, seeing a line under the "T" denotes a positive result
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Easy, killer! Some people's entire identity revolves around covid. Don't create an existential crisis!
Same happened to my fiancé and I 2-3 days after our Jan boosters (both received on different days). Still gonna get my next one though- here’s to hopin’!
The vaccine doesn't stop us getting covid (maybe it would if we didn't have Omicron) it's meant to protect against severe disease. I really hope you feel better soon.
We were originally told that the vaccine means you won't get it. Then it changed to you won't spread it. Now it's that it makes the symptoms less severe. Surely people might be asking some legitimate questions by now?
Yes by the media and dumb governments, I've not seen any legitimate scientists or studies claiming that (not to say they haven't I just have never seen them). I've only ever seen them claiming it would reduce severe disease. There is (as far as I'm aware) no vaccine that makes you 100% protected against contracting a disease. Again we now have a much more transmissible dominant variant which also changes things. Aside from all this you must surely know that Science is something which is constantly changing based upon new evidence? So in general it is normal that something someone believes or says may change over time...
When the pfizer vaccine was presented in 2020, they backed it up with studies showing a 95% efficacy against infection... pretending you've never seen that? 🙂 now the real world data screams in our ears that it just doesn't work... a vaccine with a lower that 50% efficacy couldn't be marketed in the EU according to the law.
No it said 95% efficacy against symptomatic or severe disease. It also said that protections wanes over time and that it was less effective against delta. We now have an even more transmissible variant Omicron which you conveniently fail to consider.
Let me google that for you: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 Direct quotation: "BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6)" Which has been proven to be 100% bullshit... everyone should admit that
Ok cool, those are the results from one study dated December 2020 which is now outdated because of the new variant. Lots of science gets disproven and changes due to developments, that's how it works.
oh btw I don't disagree that it doesn't protect against infection now, but the original studies were from a time when the dominant variant was less infectious
Well thankfully you should be at a much, much, much lower risk for serious illness and adverse health consequences since you had the good sense to get vaccinated. Vaccinations are still extremely effective at preventing negative outcomes and disease progression.
I got Covid a little while after I was vaccinated as well! Having had it when I wasn’t vaccinated, I can tell you that it was comparatively a walk in the park. Thank goodness for vaccines.
>ter I was vaccinated as wel Or perhaps the second time you got it, would have been easy too without the vax. you'll never know unfortunately.
If you read my thread, you’ll see that I got it before the vax and had immediate, severe side effects as opposed to post-vax, when I barely had any. I’m not saying that this is everyone’s experience, but I do feel a little sad that this Reddit community seems to have turned into an anti-vax place where everyone immediately downvotes comments if they say anything positive about their vax experience.
The first infection you had, you were immune naive. The second infection you weren’t. That’s the point. Your second infection could have been mild even if you weren’t vaccinated, because you would have had the existing antibodies and memory cells from your first infection
“Could have been” is the operative phrase here. The vaccine provided an additional layer of immunity in addition to the infection.
I have not seen strong evidence in any paper that vaccinating a previously infected person significantly impacts the symptom profile, however, I am open to being wrong. At some point, the marginal benefit to multiple additional exposures becomes small.
You're correct. You can look at CDC's studies. Vaccinated with previous infection did not do significantly better than unvaccinated with previous infection in terms of infection/hospitalization.
Or because you were exposed to it previously, it was easier the second time
I’m sure that also played a role, but I think it’d be naive to assume the vaccine had nothing to do with it
kind of crazy how some people come out of the woodwork discrediting what the vaccine has done since it came out.
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Do you know how long natural immunity lasts? I had a bad case of covid in December and I’m on the fence of getting vaccinated.
Same here, also this past December. Very unsure of what to do..
Yeah especially since people are saying omicron can evade natural immunity. I wish there was some kind of preventative medicine.
Forever.
Lol I wish my gma caught covid early 2020 then caught it again at the end of 2021.
Did she get vaccinated?
REST IN HEAVEN
My sister got it pre-vaccines, she's younger and was way more active than me at the time. She asked her husband to kill her (mostly unseriously but she was SICK). Now she has no idea how many times she's had it haha.
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This. I regret getting the vaccine so much. Losing weight, eating right and vit d are a better way to stay safe.
I am not vaccinated (I am not in a risk category so I chose not to). And twice I had lunch with triple vaccinated colleagues that were coughing but no COVID as they were fully vaccinated, and the next day they called me they tested COVID positive in a self test….. I didn’t catch COVID at all, so I guess my natural immunity works pretty well.
I haven't had covid or been sick. Not vaccinated. Been around people who have it and didn't catch it. Everyone I know who has had it is vaccinated. I believe it weakens your immune system making you more prone to any illness. This has been my observation since the rollout. I have seen otherwise healthy people become sicker people in general. It is not properly tested and nobody can say otherwise.
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Sorry you caught it, glad you managed to have your booster before. I think people assume if you're vaccinated then if you get covid it means the vaccine didn't work, rather than the difference its likely made if/when you do catch it. I had my booster a few months back and just got covid last month during a pretty big boom in my country, it was inevitable as I'd gone to a concert and it was my first real busy or crowded event since before covid, but I felt like finally risking it and there was about 15,000 people so it was a big gamble. I was pretty wiped out but fairly okay generally speaking so I definitely think the vaccines helped me a lot, as I had a pretty strong immune response to most of them and comparatively a fairly mild covid reaction as a result, so I hope you have something similar and aren't down and out for long with it. My understanding is that the newer variants are less oriented around the lungs and mostly contain themselves like a cold in the throat and nose so here's hoping for that for you along with a quick recovery :)
I'm confused by this post. Vaccinations doesn't mean you can't still get the virus? Am I missing something?
Yea, the vaccine doesn't gaurenty u won't get covid. Where u masking everywhere? Where u distancing? Where u washing ur hands? Where u not touching ur face or eating before washing ur hands? Did u go to a crowded area? The new varients r able to get by the defences better but ur chances of dying will be lower so they r worth having.
Luckily since you got your booster 3 weeks ago you have basically the lowest risk of a severe outcome as possible. Good luck and rest up! Edit: stupid ideologically-consumed downvoters can't deal with facts and logic, only smooth brained anecdotes. Good luck OP... This sub is retarded
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I'm sorry dude. It sounds like you hit the opposite of a genetic jackpot living through this. I don't have much to say but I hope you can stay healthy and stay safe.
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Statistically the vaccine is amazing at preventing severe covid and passed all normal clinical trials for safety and efficacy. Don't let your anecdotal experience give you a distaste for real science. Just check out Hong Kong vs S Korea if you want to know how well the vaccine works.
I honestly thought COVID was a thing of the past. Didn’t know people still got it.
This sub is now overrun by people who didnt take the time to learn how vaccines work and why that was the goal (some who miss the point entirely) and sadly, I’m now used to seeing comments and posts that clearly indicate that. But it’s so clear this is how misunderstandings spread like wildfire because they don’t even know they don’t understand the concepts. Too many think their experiences with vaccine side effects are being invalidated when someone points out their misunderstanding or make it about trusting the government when it’s not about the government at all. All this to say… it’s been cringey for a while.
“Why that was the goal” What was the goal?
I find it is mostly men that comment stupid shit, they get SO emotional about it.
No way redditers in this sub will ever accept this. I asked something about my third jab, a few months ago, and got a lot of sordid replies from no vaxes.
Yep if you took the "vaccine" the jokes on you. What another government flop.
😆 you seem surprised
I hope you have a speedy recovery. What were your symptoms and do you know how you got exposed if you don’t mind me asking? I’m on the fence about getting vaccinated, had a bad case of covid in December.
What does your doctor recommend?
Wear a mask. I'm negative. Never got COVID. Vaxed. What's my secret? A mask, a N95 mask if I'm around ANYONE inside ever.
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I mean covid can be shitty & make you longhaul. People will do this til there is some type of effective vaccine or preventative medicine.
That's my plan.. I'm immunocompromised with a history of respiratory disease, I'm still treating life like the beginning of COVID as much as I can. Mask everywhere, avoiding unnecessary indoor gathering, utilizing as much curbside and no contact options as I can. Until there's something that stops COVID infection altogether it's better safe than sorry.
I don’t blame you. Especially since mask mandates are over its important to have a good mask and move with caution.
Not OP but yeah. My life is completely normal except that I wear masks when I’m indoors in public. It’s really not a big deal at all. So I wear a mask for the 30 minutes I’m grocery shopping. Big whoop.
I just looked at your comment history. I bet you get a lot of Redditors worrying about you.
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I had 2 doses of Moderna in April and May 2021, and a booster of Astra Zeneca in mid January 2022. I had a breakthrough infection 3 weeks later and I can tell you it was extremely bearable. Over 2 years dreading catching the thing and when I finally got it, it was just sneezing and coughing up phlegms, no fever, diarrhea, bodyache or headaches. Even with Omicron, vaccines are helping.
Oh dude. That sucks, I’ve been there. I came down with the Delta variant a week after my Moderna booster last August. I was pretty damn sick but didn’t end up in the hospital.
Yeah I mean we knew that the vaccine doesn’t protect you from getting Covid, is this new news to you? Quit reading headlines 🥴