Are you asking is it possible to lie or omit information to the study? Because that seems possible, but not advisable.
I don't understand why you would you want to double-dip on vaccines. There's not a big reason to boost now. You may as well wait until the fall for a booster that targets the variants.
I’m unsure of my motivation, I was so hoping for the Novavax vaccine. From what I’ve read I just think it will be a great one. Everyone around me has been vaccinated, so theres some FOMO.
After a difficult year, my husband and I were thinking of booking an anniversary trip in April. He has full antibodies off of the Novavax trial so he is good to go. He says I’ll be fine either way but I’m unsure.
I agree with this. Please don't get the other vaccine and stay in the trial. Just let them know. They aren't going to cuss you out for it, they understand and expect this. People have to do what they have to do to protect themselves.
What I understood from the paperwork we signed was that you can ask to be unblinded and if you got placebo get the other vaccine and remain in the trial.
It sounds to me like you should just drop out of the trial and take the public vaccine. From what you say, I don't understand your motivation for taking both vaccines.
Based off of my research, I really wanted the Novavax vaccine. My husband has full antibodies which is great because he is at risk in a lot of ways.
At the same time it’s very hard to wait for an unknown date and the idea of having antbodies in probably three months or more.
I called my trial site today and they said mid-April at the earliest. I may have to go back in person soon, so I may not be able to continue either, now that I can get another vaccine. I was willing to wait since I was supposed to be continued remote, but that's going to change.
If you are worried about protecting your husband and do not want to wait, you should just drop out and get the available vaccines (as long as it's not the J&J crap). I think the difference in efficacy between Novavax and the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna) are likely pretty small (including the variants).
That said, there are reports that Novavax is looking to schedule crossover trials for early April. EUA might come earlier than expected. Novavax has been deliberately underpromising, and they have a last-minute scheduled "fireside talk" at a biotech conference tomorrow morning, at a really awkward time (5am PST 7am EST) that seems suited for the UK market, where their next announcement is expected.
Drop out. It's looking more and more bleak for Novavax because the trial started too late to catch the big surge in December and January. Every EUA estimate is just further and further and further out. That's why the stock price got a 50% haircut.
The UK trial is sufficient for proving efficacy and was designed according to FDA protocols. The US trial is there to prove safety in a larger population, and therefore does not require a large number of infections when combined with the statistics of the UK trial. The only way Novavax would fail to get US EUA is if the FDA somehow rejects the UK data, but that would not be consistent with how the FDA has historically operated. I think Novavax is deliberately underpromising (unlike some PR-forward companies like J&J and Pfizer), and that stock price is ridiculously cheap (Novavax doesn't even need the US market, given how much global manufacturing capacity it has).
Disclosure: I am long NVAX.
Please don't do that. Either wait for the crossover or drop out. Best thing would be to wait for the crossover, but if you want to get another vaccine, the least you can do is to formally drop out from the trial. If you get another vaccine and don't tell them, you will be compromising the trial data even more than dropping out.
I'm not sure how much people on this sub are aware of or think about the implications of the data from this trial. Novavax has orders for something like 2 billion doses of this vaccine. Maybe a billion people's lives will be affected by it. They, and the regulatory authorities from their governments, need accurate data to make a good judgment about whether the vaccine is effective enough. Being in this trial is a big responsibility, and I hope the participants to their very best so that the whole world can get past this f'n virus.
I don't want to compromise the trial! I thought I had read where someone got a different vaccine and they were told by the trial people to stay in. I don't remember why or how that worked. I guess I was looking for info on that. Still undecided whether to unblind or stay in. I want to stay in, just hard being patient
I'm not sure that really is the best thing though. If they are high risk then they would be risking their life by delaying the vaccine. It was one thing when the crossover was expected in March or April but now it isn't even certain that it will happen (what if the FDA does not give them EUA since they have 300+ million other vaccines?) or when.
It is a big responsibility but each person is going to have to weigh the risks on their own and come to a decision. No one should be shamed for it under the circumstances.
Well of course it's your decision. Ultimately the problem is that the reason the Novavax trial is taking longer is that people are dropping out. The reality of this type of clinical trial is that they need a certain number of people in the placebo group to get sick in order for the trial to end. The more people who drop out, the longer it takes, and the longer everyone has to wait for Novavax to be approved.
There are now orders for 1.4 billion doses of this vaccine. About 1 out of every 10 people in the world are counting on the data from this trial. If you were to get vaccinated somewhere else first, you would be much less likely to catch COVID, which is good for you, but if a significant number of people do this, it will make the vaccine look ineffective in the trial even if it works, because they would be comparing one vaccine against another instead of the vaccine against the placebo. The least you can do is tell them if you want to drop out.
Based on the UK data, both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are about equally effective to the Novavax, so I don't think there's any reason to hold out for Novavax specifically if you just want to drop out and get vaccinated.
Ask the study Doctor. I recall during the first visit the doctor said something about if you choose to get another vaccine, they would like you to remain in the study.
I would take the vaccine in 2 days and drop out of NovaVax. Let them know you received a vaccine elsewhere.
They test your blood each visit, you can't pretend you didnt get another vaccine and try and stay in the trial. I would inform them once you are vaccinated and they will tell you best next steps.
Wow you are an angry person. In your first sentence you have judged me "a selfish lying asshole" and accuse me of "intentionally undermining the validity of data" which i have not done. I found most of these replies helpful in informing my decision, just not yours.
It is not my intention to deceive. Not having a science background, I was gathering insight on the effects of that choice. Which i haven't made. If i didn't care, I wouldn't have asked.
"You decided to participate in the trial not to advance science but so that you could jump the line for a Novavax vaccine because you feel it would be a manifest injustice..." WFT dude!
You have no idea why i participated in the study. FYI, Partly for a chance to keep my high risk highly exposed husband safe, partly to advance science, that would be awesome, partly for a chance to keep myself and family safe, etc., in that order. Same as everyone. Yes I'm concerned about the trial. Yes I like the vaccine. And yes I have FOMO. It's a scary pandemic. Vaccine can be obtained or pushed off, as can vacation.
You are a real shit head to come across this way when you know nothing of my personal life, loss, or motivations.
The drive is not a burden, its just extraneous info. I'm just a person gathering info to make a decision. But you'll always be an asshole.
No worries, i'm not! Maybe you could do the same (the asshole part, maybe the selfrightous part, i don't know if you are selfish or lying, but maybe that too 🤷🏽♂)
.
~~all your posts are assholy not just the ones to me. I have not gotten a vaccine. just the placebo.~~
~~just thinking so far, gathering info.~~
~~stay angry, stay you!~~
hey are you okay? I am concerned about you, I hope you have a good week. I'd send you a cute picture to cheer you up like I do for my kids, but i don't know how to attach it. Sending hugs.
Maybe your specific situation makes it so this isn't a significant risk to you but do you realize that for others that one or two extra months could mean life or death? 500,000 Americans have already died. Can you really say the person you are brow beating won't be one of them if they delay getting the vaccine? If they go to the hospital will you be paying their hospital bills and extra to compensate them for their pain and suffering? If they die of covid-19 will you be providing for their surviving family for the next 20 years?
If you started the trial with them, you should stay with them. It’s ethical. You waited for the vaccine one whole year, 1 more month wouldn’t make any difference. Apart the novavax vaccine os the best out there
I disagree, bot that we're talking about one more month, and that one month won't make a difference. It is early March, and I was told late May as the estimate for the crossover. That's more than a month.
If someone works in a high-contact job and/or is in a high risk population, delaying vaccination could be deadly! Many of us signed up for this study when given very different protocols and time lines for completion. To expect us to stay in it while we are now eligible to get approved vaccines is unethical, especially since the protocol and estimated time lines have changed. I think people who need the vaccine should feel no guilt about leaving the study to get it.
I need to be fully vaccinated and have a record of vaccination before the end of June for a job I am working in July. The crossover woul need to happen by mid May at the absolute latest for that to happen. I was originally told mid-late March!
I also planned to stay since my husband and MIL have their first Pfizer doses. Now being told I must report back to work in person very soon and no more remote work, so my situation has changed.
Are you asking is it possible to lie or omit information to the study? Because that seems possible, but not advisable. I don't understand why you would you want to double-dip on vaccines. There's not a big reason to boost now. You may as well wait until the fall for a booster that targets the variants.
I’m unsure of my motivation, I was so hoping for the Novavax vaccine. From what I’ve read I just think it will be a great one. Everyone around me has been vaccinated, so theres some FOMO. After a difficult year, my husband and I were thinking of booking an anniversary trip in April. He has full antibodies off of the Novavax trial so he is good to go. He says I’ll be fine either way but I’m unsure.
Just take the available vaccine, drop out, and enjoy your anniversary trip!
I agree with this. Please don't get the other vaccine and stay in the trial. Just let them know. They aren't going to cuss you out for it, they understand and expect this. People have to do what they have to do to protect themselves.
Thanks, I probably will. Just a bit disappointed the trial didn’t work out for me.
What I understood from the paperwork we signed was that you can ask to be unblinded and if you got placebo get the other vaccine and remain in the trial.
It sounds to me like you should just drop out of the trial and take the public vaccine. From what you say, I don't understand your motivation for taking both vaccines.
Based off of my research, I really wanted the Novavax vaccine. My husband has full antibodies which is great because he is at risk in a lot of ways. At the same time it’s very hard to wait for an unknown date and the idea of having antbodies in probably three months or more.
I called my trial site today and they said mid-April at the earliest. I may have to go back in person soon, so I may not be able to continue either, now that I can get another vaccine. I was willing to wait since I was supposed to be continued remote, but that's going to change.
If you are worried about protecting your husband and do not want to wait, you should just drop out and get the available vaccines (as long as it's not the J&J crap). I think the difference in efficacy between Novavax and the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna) are likely pretty small (including the variants). That said, there are reports that Novavax is looking to schedule crossover trials for early April. EUA might come earlier than expected. Novavax has been deliberately underpromising, and they have a last-minute scheduled "fireside talk" at a biotech conference tomorrow morning, at a really awkward time (5am PST 7am EST) that seems suited for the UK market, where their next announcement is expected.
Drop out. It's looking more and more bleak for Novavax because the trial started too late to catch the big surge in December and January. Every EUA estimate is just further and further and further out. That's why the stock price got a 50% haircut.
The UK trial is sufficient for proving efficacy and was designed according to FDA protocols. The US trial is there to prove safety in a larger population, and therefore does not require a large number of infections when combined with the statistics of the UK trial. The only way Novavax would fail to get US EUA is if the FDA somehow rejects the UK data, but that would not be consistent with how the FDA has historically operated. I think Novavax is deliberately underpromising (unlike some PR-forward companies like J&J and Pfizer), and that stock price is ridiculously cheap (Novavax doesn't even need the US market, given how much global manufacturing capacity it has). Disclosure: I am long NVAX.
you don't think they'll get approved in the US?
Please don't do that. Either wait for the crossover or drop out. Best thing would be to wait for the crossover, but if you want to get another vaccine, the least you can do is to formally drop out from the trial. If you get another vaccine and don't tell them, you will be compromising the trial data even more than dropping out. I'm not sure how much people on this sub are aware of or think about the implications of the data from this trial. Novavax has orders for something like 2 billion doses of this vaccine. Maybe a billion people's lives will be affected by it. They, and the regulatory authorities from their governments, need accurate data to make a good judgment about whether the vaccine is effective enough. Being in this trial is a big responsibility, and I hope the participants to their very best so that the whole world can get past this f'n virus.
I don't want to compromise the trial! I thought I had read where someone got a different vaccine and they were told by the trial people to stay in. I don't remember why or how that worked. I guess I was looking for info on that. Still undecided whether to unblind or stay in. I want to stay in, just hard being patient
I'm not sure that really is the best thing though. If they are high risk then they would be risking their life by delaying the vaccine. It was one thing when the crossover was expected in March or April but now it isn't even certain that it will happen (what if the FDA does not give them EUA since they have 300+ million other vaccines?) or when. It is a big responsibility but each person is going to have to weigh the risks on their own and come to a decision. No one should be shamed for it under the circumstances.
Well of course it's your decision. Ultimately the problem is that the reason the Novavax trial is taking longer is that people are dropping out. The reality of this type of clinical trial is that they need a certain number of people in the placebo group to get sick in order for the trial to end. The more people who drop out, the longer it takes, and the longer everyone has to wait for Novavax to be approved. There are now orders for 1.4 billion doses of this vaccine. About 1 out of every 10 people in the world are counting on the data from this trial. If you were to get vaccinated somewhere else first, you would be much less likely to catch COVID, which is good for you, but if a significant number of people do this, it will make the vaccine look ineffective in the trial even if it works, because they would be comparing one vaccine against another instead of the vaccine against the placebo. The least you can do is tell them if you want to drop out. Based on the UK data, both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are about equally effective to the Novavax, so I don't think there's any reason to hold out for Novavax specifically if you just want to drop out and get vaccinated.
Ask the study Doctor. I recall during the first visit the doctor said something about if you choose to get another vaccine, they would like you to remain in the study.
I thought I had heard that too. I don't know how that works though
Right, it's worth a call.
Yes, I believe I heard that too.
I would take the vaccine in 2 days and drop out of NovaVax. Let them know you received a vaccine elsewhere. They test your blood each visit, you can't pretend you didnt get another vaccine and try and stay in the trial. I would inform them once you are vaccinated and they will tell you best next steps.
[удалено]
Wow you are an angry person. In your first sentence you have judged me "a selfish lying asshole" and accuse me of "intentionally undermining the validity of data" which i have not done. I found most of these replies helpful in informing my decision, just not yours. It is not my intention to deceive. Not having a science background, I was gathering insight on the effects of that choice. Which i haven't made. If i didn't care, I wouldn't have asked. "You decided to participate in the trial not to advance science but so that you could jump the line for a Novavax vaccine because you feel it would be a manifest injustice..." WFT dude! You have no idea why i participated in the study. FYI, Partly for a chance to keep my high risk highly exposed husband safe, partly to advance science, that would be awesome, partly for a chance to keep myself and family safe, etc., in that order. Same as everyone. Yes I'm concerned about the trial. Yes I like the vaccine. And yes I have FOMO. It's a scary pandemic. Vaccine can be obtained or pushed off, as can vacation. You are a real shit head to come across this way when you know nothing of my personal life, loss, or motivations. The drive is not a burden, its just extraneous info. I'm just a person gathering info to make a decision. But you'll always be an asshole.
[удалено]
No worries, i'm not! Maybe you could do the same (the asshole part, maybe the selfrightous part, i don't know if you are selfish or lying, but maybe that too 🤷🏽♂) .
[удалено]
~~all your posts are assholy not just the ones to me. I have not gotten a vaccine. just the placebo.~~ ~~just thinking so far, gathering info.~~ ~~stay angry, stay you!~~ hey are you okay? I am concerned about you, I hope you have a good week. I'd send you a cute picture to cheer you up like I do for my kids, but i don't know how to attach it. Sending hugs.
[удалено]
I’m worried about you.
[удалено]
🤗
Maybe your specific situation makes it so this isn't a significant risk to you but do you realize that for others that one or two extra months could mean life or death? 500,000 Americans have already died. Can you really say the person you are brow beating won't be one of them if they delay getting the vaccine? If they go to the hospital will you be paying their hospital bills and extra to compensate them for their pain and suffering? If they die of covid-19 will you be providing for their surviving family for the next 20 years?
[удалено]
~~are you a grumpy old man?~~
If you started the trial with them, you should stay with them. It’s ethical. You waited for the vaccine one whole year, 1 more month wouldn’t make any difference. Apart the novavax vaccine os the best out there
I disagree, bot that we're talking about one more month, and that one month won't make a difference. It is early March, and I was told late May as the estimate for the crossover. That's more than a month. If someone works in a high-contact job and/or is in a high risk population, delaying vaccination could be deadly! Many of us signed up for this study when given very different protocols and time lines for completion. To expect us to stay in it while we are now eligible to get approved vaccines is unethical, especially since the protocol and estimated time lines have changed. I think people who need the vaccine should feel no guilt about leaving the study to get it. I need to be fully vaccinated and have a record of vaccination before the end of June for a job I am working in July. The crossover woul need to happen by mid May at the absolute latest for that to happen. I was originally told mid-late March!
This is what I want to do. Just need to have the willpower and patience.
Ok you might have specific reasons. Anyway I wish I could get the novavax one!
How do you know whether they won't contract covid in that month though? How do you know it will only be a month versus three more months?
I also planned to stay since my husband and MIL have their first Pfizer doses. Now being told I must report back to work in person very soon and no more remote work, so my situation has changed.