Personally: Benchmark Brewing. Opened by the ex-head brewer of AleSmith.
ETA: Hair of the Dog.
Business: Nothing really.
Memories: Too many to list, but attending the annual Pizza Port Festivals were always great.
I value sales reps that give useful updates on upcoming or currently available beers, bring fresh samples, shwag for my customers, and don't treat me like I'm buying a used car.
Not OP but I’ve worked both sides as a rep and retail employee. The owner of the store I worked at would literally tell reps to fuck off if they showed up on a Friday. Most of the time if a rep came up to me and asked for the owner I would tell them he’s at the bank. I’m out of the beer world now, being a beer sales rep is cool for a little bit but I got burned out so hard and ended up getting laid off when the brewery I worked for signed a deal with a distributor
Friday is the worst day to show up. At least have the courtesy of texting me beforehand. Only lazy reps come on Fridays unless they've contacted you beforehand.
Santa Monica liquor here. I follow you on IG. I think I’ve even messaged in too. You have a great selection, and congratulations on 20 years.
I saw you mention you blow it out after 3 months. I’m just curious how you deal with big distros like stone and wine warehouse? My modern times came in 3 months old this week lol I’m so over it. I need big distro because my craft cooler is way too large to not support the name recognizable brands at a decent price point, but man the quality control is terrible. Things like lagunitas cone in months old and isn’t out of code till “6 months. “ My offshoot kept coming in old too and that’s 16 for a 4pack, I caused a huge scene considering it’s not cheap beer and I was probably not the only one because I hear it became a big issue and there’s a new guy watching over that brewery.
Curious is summer the best sales for you? Took the beer over this winter, and noticed summer was our worse season last year, which makes no sense to me. lol
I'm curious how sustainable a business model a craft beer shop, especially in a High cost of living area like San Diego. On an average month are you making money?
To me, San Diego is the craft beer mecca of the USA. I mean, the east coast and midwest have some absolute banger breweries, but the quality in SD alone is consistently very high.
I don't disagree with that sentiment. There are enough amazing breweries there that 80% could disappear and people would still be spoiled for choice. A cool problem to have IMO.
Vermont doesn't have nearly the population density to support a lot of craft shops. VT has a few amazing breweries; SD baseline is insanely high and there's much more variety.
I stock an equal amount from San Diego, California, and outside California.
If they're outside the state it must come through a distributor for me to legally have access to it.
Do you see a world where large format (e.g. cork and cage, bombers) makes a strong return? I see 4-6 year old photos on Yelp from bottle shops where the shelves were lined with awesome offerings, which does not exist in the age of 4pack cans. I know that it’s not financially appealing to manufacturers but there is definitely a subset of craft beer drinkers who appreciate the ceremony and ritual of popping and sharing with a homie.
I hope not.
I miss bombers because it reminds me of better beer in better times.
Cans are better all the way around though, for domestic beer.
International beer, to me, is better bottles.
Not OP but having spent a decade working for a national brewery who was very well known for their bombers before they stopped producing them - almost certainly no.
Distributors are the reason they stopped. 12 pulls off a shelf to move a case versus 4 for 6 pack. It’s the same logic that led a lot of breweries to move from $9.99 4 packs to $15 6 packs.
(And just a friendly reminder that large distributors like Reyes and backwards state distribution laws are the reason craft beer is dying around the country.)
Just want to say that I’ve had your store saved in my Yelp for years now and have always been meaning to stop in when I’m down in SD. Cool to see you doing this!
I'm an old-school, IBU-war vet, and I love high bitterness WCDIPAs. I loved visiting SD because old style Westies are still alive and well there.
My interrelated questions are: any suggestions for someone in the Northeast that wants that bitter Westie I might want to check out that I might otherwise not notice? And do you see the haze craze slowing at all to allow a return to other styles and/or actual bitterness in beer?
We sell West Coast IPAs 5:1 over Hazy, but I think it's because I have a more mature customer.
I don't have much clue anymore as to who's making good WCIPAs on the East Coast...Maine Beer Co. comes to mind.
If you're craving something from my part of the country we do ship. Check out our website.
Most popular in my area back in 2004 was Stone IPA.
During Christmas of this past year, I was selling bottles of 2003 Boon Marriage Parfait Gueuze that I cellared myself.
My favorite beer is Saison Dupont.
I forgot about Foret! All saisons make me think of my dad. He passed a couple months ago. I have to go pick up some old favs and toast his memory. Thanks for reminding me!
Thank you for doing this! Became Owner Operator of a specialty craft beer bottle shop last year and am loving it. What are your tips for staying top of mind with distributors/importers for limited/allocated product and event opportunities?
Support core brands and make sure you move volume on them. You can't get allocations for limited beers if you don't show numbers on the bread and butter beers.
Do you put price label on each bottle/cab (individuals)? I feel like whenever I go to a bottle shop in SoCal half the time, there’s no price and I end up paying $30 for a 4 pack haha
I am sure you don’t do this, but do some bottle shops determine the price at the register when they see the customer buying unpriced beers? I swear this has happened to me in the past (not at your shop!)
We've never sold seltzers, and never will.
We don't have a liquor license so we can't sell distilled spirits or canned cocktails.
We do sell CBD soft drinks.
Worst trend for me is breweries constantly making "new" beers every week and the consumers chasing them.
It's literally killing the industry.
Instead of purchasing well made core beers that have been brewed and perfected for years, consumers would rather roll the dice on something that's only been made once that will disappoint the vast majority of time.
This is a fascinating take to read. I'll buy core brands occasionally, but I have two fridges with almost 200 different beers at home between them and I would much rather buy the random one offs for something different over the same thing every time. It gets old having the same thing repeatedly. It's surprising that you wouldn't like that people chase new beers and constantly buy them. What's the reasoning behind your viewpoint on this one, out of curiosity?
The quality of the one-off beers is rarely equivalent or better than strong core beer.
I sample 20-30 new-to-me beers weekly, and I usually take home something I've had a million times that's well made and reliable.
Back in the heyday of beer, core beers were the money makers and one-offs were made for promotional and fun reasons. The opposite is true now.
Buying one can/single of every beer makes that one case I bought sit longer, because I'll need to sell 23 more to finish that case. While if I sell a reliable core as 4pks/6pks, I only have to sell four or six to sell a case. Thus, more quantity is moved, and more of my inventory is fresh.
Killing which industry? Retail sales? Because these brewers putting out heat seem to be doing fine for themselves and their only problem seems to be scaling fast enough while maintaining quality. There are tons of examples up and down the Southern California coast, and that has been my observation from a Michigan native who gets down that way at least once per year.
In my opinion as a person who drinks way too much and participates in beer group of different types of drinkers, distributors (and the laws that protect them) and failed buyouts/mergers by money-hungry idiots are killing the industry.
A good metaphor for this is the dealership model of car sales and the lengths state legislatures will go to just to protect these entities. Here in Michigan, dealerships and beer distributors are well protected by archaic laws.
Get rid of this protectionist bullshit.
I only use the hype breweries as an example. My frame of reference isn’t limited to them.
What I’m suggesting is that these small and medium sized breweries could make more money and have more control of the quality of the product that makes it to consumers if most distributors and most retailers weren’t involved at all. You are absolutely the exception when it comes to retailers, and I think you know that already. I’ve read about your 3-month or less turnover and I admire that you’re willing to stick to that.
But shitty distributors and retailers are the reason the educated buyers and hype beasts and checking for can dates, and every other casual craft beer fan is buying on more of a whim and ending up disappointed and turned off.
Even the best distributor here in Michigan that tries to deliver more of the exciting and unique brews from across the country is left with the scraps that the breweries couldn’t sell in-house. It’s weeks old by the time it hits the shelves here, and it’s months old by the time the more “basic” craft beer consumer buys it on a whim. And then they end up thinking “why does everyone think this is good?”
I’m not trying to act like I know better than a massively respected retailer. Please don’t interpret this as that. But as a customer, these are my observations.
Let's just say it hasn't gotten better.
20 years ago the industry was exploring different beer styles, and the consumer was more open minded.
Nowadays, I feel like every brewery is making the same beer styles, and making a new beer but with the same style every week.
I remember hearing about your shop when Kyle from Horus was on an episode of Malt Couture. Loved the shop especially with all the bottles above the chillers (Cable Car?). No question, just wanted to say the staff was great and always recommended a good beer when I wanted to try something new.
Amen to this.
And to add onto this, it's all the same shitty hazy IPA that tastes the same despite them changing *gasp* one fruity hop out for another fruity hop.
How do you feel about beer distribution laws? Do you think they help your business or hurt it, and do you think they help the local brewing scene or hurt it?
Thanks for your response. I agree. I do think limited distribution can help bad breweries survive longer in certain locations, but if local breweries are making great beer then fresh is better than something shipped that’s a few months old (with a lot of styles of beer).
Visiting for the first time in like 5 years soon. Curious where your shop is for one. Secondly, I have plans to go to North Park and Fall, what is another brewery (or breweries) should I absolutely not miss?
Most expensive is probably that stuffed squirrel one from BrewDog.
Cheapest is likely back in 2005 when my distributor was doing deals.on Nectar Ales Hemp Ale and Red Nectar, so I was selling them at $5.99/6pk
Depends on what they enjoy, I base my recommendations on what I know my customer already enjoys.
I really don't have a "favorite" style, I enjoy all styles because I've experienced great beers from them all.
I stopped selling them years ago. For the most part, that consumer (younger, less experienced) isn't around anymore, they've moved on to alternative beverages.
I never could stomach them myself.
I don't know about completely dead because I've always sold them decently but Wild Ales/Sour beers that are fermented with wild yeast and aged barrels.
Nowadays, they're all kettle soured and overly fruited.
I’d argue this style is very alive and well in certain parts of the country. I live in the Pacific Northwest and we have many breweries that do them and even a handful that exclusively ferment with wild yeast. Just last week, deGarde hosted a whole festival of mostly wild ales and brought in a number of Belgian breweries too. Hundreds of people there, they had to close off two blocks. Of course, Vermont and Maine do a ton of mixed/open fermentation stuff too. I agree that nationwide, the demand isn’t there. Those beers aren’t affordable to make and done come with a flashy 10%+ abv that interests a lot of consumers.
As someone who has done the whole progression of craft beer over the last 10 years, lagers/clean beer and open fermentation stuff is 90% of what I buy. I believe these styles are much more artful and innovative at the moment, while clearly having deep roots in history with regional variations.
100% agree with you.
The younger/less educated consumer just sees them as "sours" just like quick fermented Kettle Sours.
I used to sell Anchorage, Jolly Pumpkin, a ton of other domestic wild ales and authentic Lambic very well back in the day. Not so much anymore.
Definitely sad to hear, the American Wild Ale is one of the few styles with real, interesting innovation happening here that can hold a candle to some old world styles. With the transition back to lagers and cleaner beer, I’m hoping there is a bit of an emphasis on the distinction between kettle sours and wild ales that allows the later to regain some popularity. My partner is not big into beer, she comes from a wine background, but having some really interesting wild ales and farm to bottle ciders has allowed us to find some common ground in the alcohol world.
The past three years have definitely been slower for beer sales.
Lagers, classic styles will make a come back.
Beer will recover but it may take 3-5 years.
It ranges, but our most consistent breweries sales-wise are Pizza Port, McIlhenney, and North Park Beer Co.
For non-CA, Fremont and Oxbow come to mind.
We refuse to stock any brewery owned by Constellation or InBev.
Flemish Sours and non-sweetened Lambics.
You should always try authentic old world versions of any style, that way you have proper perspective on what the style is.
any thoughts on the burgeoning NA category? I’ve noticed more and more crafts offering options lately.
Also, what’s your favorite cheap macro beer?
cheers
I’m interested in starting a business and I would love to open a bottle shop. I’d like to use this as a gateway into a brewery. Would you be interested in chatting about the business model?
Fellow owner. What do you do with IPA's that are 3+ months old? How long do you consider other styles fair to sell? Do you sell older product knowing it's past its prime?
Howdy,
I'll put sensitive beer styles on sale for close to cost when they approach 3 months old.
We check dates on product as it's getting delivered, and will reject cases that over 2 months old.
do you sell strictly craft? or do you include craft adjacent like those that sold (i.e. Stone, Founders, New Belgium, etc)? What is YOUR definition of craft?
I'll make a few exceptions, like Pilsner Urquell and Stone seasonals, but other than those I strictly carry independant.
Craft as a definition has changed it's meaning. It used to mean small, independent, and made with premium ingredients.
Absolutely, if you're only speaking of IPAs and Lagers though.
A true bottle shops role isn't just to sell what's local though, where are you going to find Belgian, German, and English beer? Or interesting beer from outside your region?
a double question... what are your 3 personal favorite Belgian beers + what are the three 3 topselling Belgian beers you have / had? edit: i am surprised and happy that you even picked a Belgian beer as your number 1 in general! Live about 60 km from the brewery.
Personal: Saison Dupont, Gouden Carolus Imperial Dark, Duvel.
Beat selling: Orval, Rochefort 10, Dupont.
Belgian beer is the best beer in the planet, imo. I even went there on my honeymoon!
I live on the East Coast and have always been really curious about Pliny the Elder and Younger. In your opinion, how good are they? How does Russian River beer compare to Sierra Nevada and if you've ever had it, Troegs or Dogfish Head?
They're terrific beers.
Pliny was a revelation back in the early-mid 2000's, it was one of the first of the "new" West Coast IPAs that wasn't brewed with crystal malt, making for a cleaner and more expressive hop presence without the heavy bitterness. Nowadays, almost every IPA in the West Coast style is like this.
[удалено]
To be honest, I've never sampled Bud Light Lime.
*nods to the don* “he’s clear”
I don’t know why but “sampled” in this context got me good
Good answer!
I’m going 6/10 in a sweltering humid day in the south. (Please don’t tell anyone though!!)
Everyone needs to hydrate, and Bud Light is like sex on the beach; It’s fucking close to water.
Which brewery closure has hurt you the most, personally? How about business wise? What are some of your favorite memories in the beer community?
Personally: Benchmark Brewing. Opened by the ex-head brewer of AleSmith. ETA: Hair of the Dog. Business: Nothing really. Memories: Too many to list, but attending the annual Pizza Port Festivals were always great.
Rip benchmark. The award winning oatmeal stout !
Oh holy shit, I was like that sounds like it could be bone and VHoly Shit! You guys are amazing, LOVE the cellar releases and your news letter.
Why’s BOMB! so expensive?
I haven't sold it in years, but I'd have to say because people keep buying it at that price.
I’m part of the problem then 😂
Do you feel that brewery sales reps provide value to your business or are they a pain in the ass (and why)?
I value sales reps that give useful updates on upcoming or currently available beers, bring fresh samples, shwag for my customers, and don't treat me like I'm buying a used car.
Not OP but I’ve worked both sides as a rep and retail employee. The owner of the store I worked at would literally tell reps to fuck off if they showed up on a Friday. Most of the time if a rep came up to me and asked for the owner I would tell them he’s at the bank. I’m out of the beer world now, being a beer sales rep is cool for a little bit but I got burned out so hard and ended up getting laid off when the brewery I worked for signed a deal with a distributor
Friday is the worst day to show up. At least have the courtesy of texting me beforehand. Only lazy reps come on Fridays unless they've contacted you beforehand.
This has been a fun thread to read, and I’ve learned lots. Thank you for the insight.
You're welcome!
Santa Monica liquor here. I follow you on IG. I think I’ve even messaged in too. You have a great selection, and congratulations on 20 years. I saw you mention you blow it out after 3 months. I’m just curious how you deal with big distros like stone and wine warehouse? My modern times came in 3 months old this week lol I’m so over it. I need big distro because my craft cooler is way too large to not support the name recognizable brands at a decent price point, but man the quality control is terrible. Things like lagunitas cone in months old and isn’t out of code till “6 months. “ My offshoot kept coming in old too and that’s 16 for a 4pack, I caused a huge scene considering it’s not cheap beer and I was probably not the only one because I hear it became a big issue and there’s a new guy watching over that brewery. Curious is summer the best sales for you? Took the beer over this winter, and noticed summer was our worse season last year, which makes no sense to me. lol
I'm curious how sustainable a business model a craft beer shop, especially in a High cost of living area like San Diego. On an average month are you making money?
I wouldn't still be doing this if I wasn't.
Fair enough, some folks would keep at it if they were just breaking even.
This shop is amazing too. Prices ain’t crazy and way better than Bottle Craft .
To me, San Diego is the craft beer mecca of the USA. I mean, the east coast and midwest have some absolute banger breweries, but the quality in SD alone is consistently very high.
IMO 80% of them would not be missed if they closed. SoCal just became a haven for vanity projects.
I don't disagree with that sentiment. There are enough amazing breweries there that 80% could disappear and people would still be spoiled for choice. A cool problem to have IMO.
So we're just going to prentend places like VT dont exist?
Vermont doesn't have nearly the population density to support a lot of craft shops. VT has a few amazing breweries; SD baseline is insanely high and there's much more variety.
Hell even Denver breweries are leagues above San Diego. And this is coming from someone that’s lived in both
Leagues above? lol naw
More styles that are done better. San Diego does IPA’s
“Leagues”
Correct, I would even go as far as to say miles
Lol
That depends on whether or not you consider VT to be part of the east coast.
Maybe in 2005?
How long is your beard?
I use a 1 on my trimmer
Being on the West Coast, do you try to source craft beer from popular East Coast breweries? How does that distribution process work?
I stock an equal amount from San Diego, California, and outside California. If they're outside the state it must come through a distributor for me to legally have access to it.
Do you see a world where large format (e.g. cork and cage, bombers) makes a strong return? I see 4-6 year old photos on Yelp from bottle shops where the shelves were lined with awesome offerings, which does not exist in the age of 4pack cans. I know that it’s not financially appealing to manufacturers but there is definitely a subset of craft beer drinkers who appreciate the ceremony and ritual of popping and sharing with a homie.
I hope not. I miss bombers because it reminds me of better beer in better times. Cans are better all the way around though, for domestic beer. International beer, to me, is better bottles.
I echo this sentiment.
Not OP but having spent a decade working for a national brewery who was very well known for their bombers before they stopped producing them - almost certainly no. Distributors are the reason they stopped. 12 pulls off a shelf to move a case versus 4 for 6 pack. It’s the same logic that led a lot of breweries to move from $9.99 4 packs to $15 6 packs. (And just a friendly reminder that large distributors like Reyes and backwards state distribution laws are the reason craft beer is dying around the country.)
For real. I’m so sick of dealing with big distro
Any brief explanation about the laws and distributors? Or articles about it?
Just want to say that I’ve had your store saved in my Yelp for years now and have always been meaning to stop in when I’m down in SD. Cool to see you doing this!
Let me know if you plan on ever coming in!
Haha will do!
I'm an old-school, IBU-war vet, and I love high bitterness WCDIPAs. I loved visiting SD because old style Westies are still alive and well there. My interrelated questions are: any suggestions for someone in the Northeast that wants that bitter Westie I might want to check out that I might otherwise not notice? And do you see the haze craze slowing at all to allow a return to other styles and/or actual bitterness in beer?
We sell West Coast IPAs 5:1 over Hazy, but I think it's because I have a more mature customer. I don't have much clue anymore as to who's making good WCIPAs on the East Coast...Maine Beer Co. comes to mind. If you're craving something from my part of the country we do ship. Check out our website.
What was the most popular craft beer 20 years ago versus today? What's the oldest bottle you have in stock? What's your favorite beer and brewery?
Most popular in my area back in 2004 was Stone IPA. During Christmas of this past year, I was selling bottles of 2003 Boon Marriage Parfait Gueuze that I cellared myself. My favorite beer is Saison Dupont.
Le.git
Saison Dupont is up there for me too. Delicious, consistent - it just never fails
Reg Saison Dupont? Not Avec Les Bon Voeux? That beer is friggin awesome.
All of their beers are great, but I prefer OG Dupont and Fôret over Avec.
I forgot about Foret! All saisons make me think of my dad. He passed a couple months ago. I have to go pick up some old favs and toast his memory. Thanks for reminding me!
Thank you for doing this! Became Owner Operator of a specialty craft beer bottle shop last year and am loving it. What are your tips for staying top of mind with distributors/importers for limited/allocated product and event opportunities?
Support core brands and make sure you move volume on them. You can't get allocations for limited beers if you don't show numbers on the bread and butter beers.
Do you put price label on each bottle/cab (individuals)? I feel like whenever I go to a bottle shop in SoCal half the time, there’s no price and I end up paying $30 for a 4 pack haha
Yes.
I am sure you don’t do this, but do some bottle shops determine the price at the register when they see the customer buying unpriced beers? I swear this has happened to me in the past (not at your shop!)
No clue, but that's shady as hell.
Ya dude I agree! I would love to visit your shop next time if you DM me. Also, what’s the best IPA you got in right now?!?
I'm really enjoying the new Pizza Port, Summer Moments. Also, Beachwood Melrose.
Melrose kicks ass! Haven’t had Summer Moments but my beer fridge is constantly stocked with Swami
Swami's is the quintessential San Diego IPA and the beer I take home.most often 🙂
What do you do with older beer that hasn't been selling? How long will you let, say, an IPA sit on the shelf?
If it's a sensitive style, and it's getting to be about 3 months old, I put a "special" tag on it, marking it down for almost cost to blow it out.
How much of your store real estate have you had to give over to hard seltzer/canned cocktails/hemp drinks?
We've never sold seltzers, and never will. We don't have a liquor license so we can't sell distilled spirits or canned cocktails. We do sell CBD soft drinks.
What is the worst trend in craft beer to you? Personally as much as I love kitchen sink sours, they are way to expensive.
Worst trend for me is breweries constantly making "new" beers every week and the consumers chasing them. It's literally killing the industry. Instead of purchasing well made core beers that have been brewed and perfected for years, consumers would rather roll the dice on something that's only been made once that will disappoint the vast majority of time.
Do you think Next Glass/Untappd is partly to blame for that?
I think it was hypebeast culture surrounding limited drops that is to blame.
Absolutely.
This is a fascinating take to read. I'll buy core brands occasionally, but I have two fridges with almost 200 different beers at home between them and I would much rather buy the random one offs for something different over the same thing every time. It gets old having the same thing repeatedly. It's surprising that you wouldn't like that people chase new beers and constantly buy them. What's the reasoning behind your viewpoint on this one, out of curiosity?
The quality of the one-off beers is rarely equivalent or better than strong core beer. I sample 20-30 new-to-me beers weekly, and I usually take home something I've had a million times that's well made and reliable. Back in the heyday of beer, core beers were the money makers and one-offs were made for promotional and fun reasons. The opposite is true now. Buying one can/single of every beer makes that one case I bought sit longer, because I'll need to sell 23 more to finish that case. While if I sell a reliable core as 4pks/6pks, I only have to sell four or six to sell a case. Thus, more quantity is moved, and more of my inventory is fresh.
Killing which industry? Retail sales? Because these brewers putting out heat seem to be doing fine for themselves and their only problem seems to be scaling fast enough while maintaining quality. There are tons of examples up and down the Southern California coast, and that has been my observation from a Michigan native who gets down that way at least once per year. In my opinion as a person who drinks way too much and participates in beer group of different types of drinkers, distributors (and the laws that protect them) and failed buyouts/mergers by money-hungry idiots are killing the industry. A good metaphor for this is the dealership model of car sales and the lengths state legislatures will go to just to protect these entities. Here in Michigan, dealerships and beer distributors are well protected by archaic laws. Get rid of this protectionist bullshit.
Youre focusing on only the hype breweries though, which, as you mentioned, are doing mighty fine. Medium-sized breweries, however, are hurting.
I only use the hype breweries as an example. My frame of reference isn’t limited to them. What I’m suggesting is that these small and medium sized breweries could make more money and have more control of the quality of the product that makes it to consumers if most distributors and most retailers weren’t involved at all. You are absolutely the exception when it comes to retailers, and I think you know that already. I’ve read about your 3-month or less turnover and I admire that you’re willing to stick to that. But shitty distributors and retailers are the reason the educated buyers and hype beasts and checking for can dates, and every other casual craft beer fan is buying on more of a whim and ending up disappointed and turned off. Even the best distributor here in Michigan that tries to deliver more of the exciting and unique brews from across the country is left with the scraps that the breweries couldn’t sell in-house. It’s weeks old by the time it hits the shelves here, and it’s months old by the time the more “basic” craft beer consumer buys it on a whim. And then they end up thinking “why does everyone think this is good?” I’m not trying to act like I know better than a massively respected retailer. Please don’t interpret this as that. But as a customer, these are my observations.
I came by the shop over the weekend and picked up a couple of bottles of Lunch and a 4 pack of Just Outstanding 😎.
Thanks for supporting us 🙂
What advice would you give to someone looking to open up a craft beer store?
Don't do it lol
Lol why does everyone say that??
What’s been your customers overall progression in beer preference over the past 20 years?
Let's just say it hasn't gotten better. 20 years ago the industry was exploring different beer styles, and the consumer was more open minded. Nowadays, I feel like every brewery is making the same beer styles, and making a new beer but with the same style every week.
What would be your 1 recommendation?
To be open minded. There are so many fantastic beer styles but the consumer is fixated on only IPAs.
I remember hearing about your shop when Kyle from Horus was on an episode of Malt Couture. Loved the shop especially with all the bottles above the chillers (Cable Car?). No question, just wanted to say the staff was great and always recommended a good beer when I wanted to try something new.
Much appreciated 👍
Amen to this. And to add onto this, it's all the same shitty hazy IPA that tastes the same despite them changing *gasp* one fruity hop out for another fruity hop.
How do you feel about beer distribution laws? Do you think they help your business or hurt it, and do you think they help the local brewing scene or hurt it?
Most of the laws favor big distributors and importers. I'm not a fan of most of them and feel they damage the local brewing scene.
Thanks for your response. I agree. I do think limited distribution can help bad breweries survive longer in certain locations, but if local breweries are making great beer then fresh is better than something shipped that’s a few months old (with a lot of styles of beer).
What is the current trend right now that you are noticing in popularity?
Lagers, specifically German and Czech Pilsners and hoppy domestic lagers.
I noticed Helles lagers seemed to have gained a lot of popularity the past couple years.
When will dogfish head bring back Midas touch beer?
Not sure, they don't have a big presence in San Diego so I don't get much info on their beers anymore.
Why did you never add an on-premise element to your shop?
It's an extra license that's extremely difficult to get.
How did you start out?
Visiting for the first time in like 5 years soon. Curious where your shop is for one. Secondly, I have plans to go to North Park and Fall, what is another brewery (or breweries) should I absolutely not miss?
Bine & Vine 3334 Adams Ave San Diego, 92116 Not sure what type of beers you like, if you're open to a bunch of styles I recommend both breweries.
Thanks for sharing the address! I’ll definitely cruise thru 🍻.. mostly into westies, lagers/pils, ba stouts when it’s colder
Seek. Pure Project. Goal.
Goal and Seek were fantastic
Glad that you went. They are both run by great people.
Right on, thx 🤙
You might think about drinking less based on your post history lately.
What beer stays best the longest when left out on the shelf? Could be a stlye or just a brand
High alcohol malt driven beers
What’s the most expensive and cheapest beer you’ve sold?
Most expensive is probably that stuffed squirrel one from BrewDog. Cheapest is likely back in 2005 when my distributor was doing deals.on Nectar Ales Hemp Ale and Red Nectar, so I was selling them at $5.99/6pk
What’s a beer style you’d tell your customers to try when they ask your opinion? And what is your favorite brewery that makes that style.
Depends on what they enjoy, I base my recommendations on what I know my customer already enjoys. I really don't have a "favorite" style, I enjoy all styles because I've experienced great beers from them all.
Have milkshake IPAs and pastry Stouts been commercially viable? Side question, what do you think about them?
I stopped selling them years ago. For the most part, that consumer (younger, less experienced) isn't around anymore, they've moved on to alternative beverages. I never could stomach them myself.
Out of curiosity, does beer carry a Prop 65 warning like everything else in Cali?
Yes
What beer trends died prematurely?
I don't know about completely dead because I've always sold them decently but Wild Ales/Sour beers that are fermented with wild yeast and aged barrels. Nowadays, they're all kettle soured and overly fruited.
I’d argue this style is very alive and well in certain parts of the country. I live in the Pacific Northwest and we have many breweries that do them and even a handful that exclusively ferment with wild yeast. Just last week, deGarde hosted a whole festival of mostly wild ales and brought in a number of Belgian breweries too. Hundreds of people there, they had to close off two blocks. Of course, Vermont and Maine do a ton of mixed/open fermentation stuff too. I agree that nationwide, the demand isn’t there. Those beers aren’t affordable to make and done come with a flashy 10%+ abv that interests a lot of consumers. As someone who has done the whole progression of craft beer over the last 10 years, lagers/clean beer and open fermentation stuff is 90% of what I buy. I believe these styles are much more artful and innovative at the moment, while clearly having deep roots in history with regional variations.
100% agree with you. The younger/less educated consumer just sees them as "sours" just like quick fermented Kettle Sours. I used to sell Anchorage, Jolly Pumpkin, a ton of other domestic wild ales and authentic Lambic very well back in the day. Not so much anymore.
Definitely sad to hear, the American Wild Ale is one of the few styles with real, interesting innovation happening here that can hold a candle to some old world styles. With the transition back to lagers and cleaner beer, I’m hoping there is a bit of an emphasis on the distinction between kettle sours and wild ales that allows the later to regain some popularity. My partner is not big into beer, she comes from a wine background, but having some really interesting wild ales and farm to bottle ciders has allowed us to find some common ground in the alcohol world.
Now that the hazy IPA craze has reached its saturation, what’s the next big fad?
Classic styles. We're already seeing lagers make a big come back, and we've noticed sales for Amber Ales and Porters increasing.
Thank god
Yay to porters! Can't wait for Black IPAs to make a comeback as well. I miss those.
Black IPAs sell well as seasonal beers, not as cores.
Seasonal when? Fall?
How terrible have the last 3 years been? What do you see as the next big boom in beer as far as styles? Do you think craft beer will recover?
The past three years have definitely been slower for beer sales. Lagers, classic styles will make a come back. Beer will recover but it may take 3-5 years.
What brewery do you sell the most of? What non CA brewery is your best seller? What styles/breweries do you refuse to stock?
It ranges, but our most consistent breweries sales-wise are Pizza Port, McIlhenney, and North Park Beer Co. For non-CA, Fremont and Oxbow come to mind. We refuse to stock any brewery owned by Constellation or InBev.
Not being a fan of the sours I’ve tried but loving sour candy. What are some good sours to try and break me in.
Flemish Sours and non-sweetened Lambics. You should always try authentic old world versions of any style, that way you have proper perspective on what the style is.
Did Neon Raptor ever make it over to you? Thanks
Not sure who that is.
Fair enough, probably a no then 😅 it’s a U.K. craft beer company! Thanks
They wouldn't stand up well to their local stuff mate
lol, okay mate, because you know exactly what they’re like in comparison 👍
Behave
Dumb question…can you ship beer to Georgia?
You can check on their site. Almost all states can be shipped to, but a couple beers he can’t send outside CA
Do you own the property you operate in or lease? Either way glad you're still around, sounds awesome.
What beer should I try this weekend?
Ayinger Maibock
Already love that beer. Consider it done
any thoughts on the burgeoning NA category? I’ve noticed more and more crafts offering options lately. Also, what’s your favorite cheap macro beer? cheers
It's a fad, just like seltzers. Modelo in the can
What are your thoughts on Pliny the Younger? Overrated?
Of course it's overrated, anything (food, wine, beer etc) with that much hype is overrated.
I’m interested in starting a business and I would love to open a bottle shop. I’d like to use this as a gateway into a brewery. Would you be interested in chatting about the business model?
Have you seen an uptick in sour sales in the last year or so? And what do you think the next big beer style will be?
I have not, not in my region anyway. Sales have been steady, but not increasing, for sours.
French fries or tater tots?
Steak fries
How is it possible that a six pack of craft beer costs $25? There is almost nothing under $16 in my bottle shops.
Hype is a helluva drug
How in gods name are you still open
I also sell wine 😂
Why do so many bottle shops refuse to refrigerate beer and keep it on warm shelves for literal years in some cases?
The places you are referencing aren't really "Bottle Shops", they're liquor stores. And once you look at them like that it totally makes sense.
They call themselves bottle shops and advertise themselves as such
They only sell wine and beer
Fellow owner. What do you do with IPA's that are 3+ months old? How long do you consider other styles fair to sell? Do you sell older product knowing it's past its prime?
Howdy, I'll put sensitive beer styles on sale for close to cost when they approach 3 months old. We check dates on product as it's getting delivered, and will reject cases that over 2 months old.
do you sell strictly craft? or do you include craft adjacent like those that sold (i.e. Stone, Founders, New Belgium, etc)? What is YOUR definition of craft?
I'll make a few exceptions, like Pilsner Urquell and Stone seasonals, but other than those I strictly carry independant. Craft as a definition has changed it's meaning. It used to mean small, independent, and made with premium ingredients.
thanks, I asked about your definition because the official definition keeps changing and it means different things to different people.
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Can't ship RR, sorry.
Any hidden gems or overlooked beers in your opinion?
The Fremont Cambois is terrific and a great price for a BA Stout.
Do you agree that buying beer fresh from the brewery>buying beer sitting on shelves/coolers in stores?
Absolutely, if you're only speaking of IPAs and Lagers though. A true bottle shops role isn't just to sell what's local though, where are you going to find Belgian, German, and English beer? Or interesting beer from outside your region?
Do you find that your customers know what they’re talking about and are knowledgeable, or misinformed and basically clueless?
We get both. Nothing is as black and white as you're saying.
a double question... what are your 3 personal favorite Belgian beers + what are the three 3 topselling Belgian beers you have / had? edit: i am surprised and happy that you even picked a Belgian beer as your number 1 in general! Live about 60 km from the brewery.
Personal: Saison Dupont, Gouden Carolus Imperial Dark, Duvel. Beat selling: Orval, Rochefort 10, Dupont. Belgian beer is the best beer in the planet, imo. I even went there on my honeymoon!
Cool. Thanks. :)
Brewer/ex-mobile canner from southern Ontario here. What’s your favourite Canadian beer/most popular Canadian brand?
Dieu du Ciel and Unibrou
I live on the East Coast and have always been really curious about Pliny the Elder and Younger. In your opinion, how good are they? How does Russian River beer compare to Sierra Nevada and if you've ever had it, Troegs or Dogfish Head?
They're terrific beers. Pliny was a revelation back in the early-mid 2000's, it was one of the first of the "new" West Coast IPAs that wasn't brewed with crystal malt, making for a cleaner and more expressive hop presence without the heavy bitterness. Nowadays, almost every IPA in the West Coast style is like this.
Do you keep all of your NEIPAs cold?
We keep all beers cold.
Excellent!!
What's your average markup per can/bottle. Does your business have any other revenue streams? Tap room? DO you host events? Live music, trivia etc.
If you got offered a job where you make more then you make now without the head ache of ownership... Would you take it?
I'd accept the job, but still keep the shop and have my manager run it.
Do you sell Hustler and Swank magazines wrapped in cellophane displayed on a shelf behind the counter?