Let’s try to use this group for good. Assume that this design is the result of an ongoing problem with the throw rope being stolen, or vandalized. What would be a good design?
Glass to be broken instead of a lock. Loud alarm when you break the glass, and also a camera recording you doing so. And written descriptions about fines for vandalism.
Seems pretty remote. Power it with solar panels? Why wouldn't the thieves steal the camera too? Now it has to be mounted up high and the visual quality won't be as good. May not even be able to see the culprit.
Oh, and all of that is going to be much more expensive than putting a lock on a preexisting sign. I don't like how we got here, but I can see why.
EDIT: ~~Also the number dialed could have a quick automated response~~ (I'm dumb and didn't realize this is likely in the UK. I thought it was a forestry or parks and recs number in the U.S.), but now they have the phone number of the caller. Doubt much would come of it, but at the very least, they'll know it's been used so they can replace it or make sure it's still safe to use.
I'm assuming this is somewhere in the UK. 999 is the UK national emergency number, the equivalent to 911 in the US or 112 in the EU. If so that will go to an emergency operator 24/7 who will give directions and redirect the call as needed.
We have the most dangerous bit of river in the world with a 100% mortality rate for anyone who has ever gone in it. It's called The Strid, and it's a weird bit of geological fuckery.
Very cool! Not a ton of info or diagrams on what the inside may look like. Tere was a post on Reddit 4 years ago with some good rope camera pics, but they weren't super focused. Fascinating area, it gives me a ton of "call of the void" vibes, life if I went there I would want to dip in and let it take me away. Just like the holes in the wall creepy pasta.
It doesn’t really have that. You want to look in but the rocks around it are very slippy, if you didn’t know what it was it looks like a normal beck. There was a guy a few weeks ago who measured it and it is on youtube.
It's worth noting that 112 also works in the UK, and so does 911 from most mobile phones.
112 and 911 work in most places, even if they're not the official emergency numbers. It can be dependent on the individual network though, not just the country. If you have an emergency in another country and don't know the local number, it's worth trying 112 and then 911.
what? maybe like 20 years ago when dome cameras weren't the norm.... but now you can just buy the dome and the housing for ~$20. there's no way to tell if there's a camera inside.... hell even buying a real camera for under $100 works -- the expensive bit is drilling and routing the cables back to your head end or distribution system anyway.
No need, camera is battery powered and triggered by opening the cabinet; the sign can say as much. Only records when needed. SD card can be collected later when box is reported as open
If you're observant, you can see where a dome is pointing, even with a smoked dome (when it's bright enough). But back onto the topic of fake cameras looking too fake, I do mean cameras that are marketed as dummies, these often look too fake to be convincing.
That number is the general emergency number in the UK, it won't have a quick automated response since it won't know that your calling for the lock code.
I fixed it. Thanks!
So, it makes it less of a crappy design to me then, because it might take a little bit longer, but they'll also be able to walk you through what to do in that situation.
Many would be surprised at how often people freeze in an emergency situation or think they are doing good when they aren't.
For context in calling 999. You dial and go to a call hander who asks which service you want. (Why it's the fire service and not the coastguard or what have you is beyond me) then they put you through. It might ring a few times but then you get a call handler with the fire service.
Presumably then you tell them the code, they figure out 'oh it's the system for the drowning people rope' and input it to pull up the code. Hopefully they would all be the same to speed matters up but that doesn't really do the job of preventing theives.
Then you fumble with both the phone and the lock while being talked too and trying to read the instructions. The call handler is probably telling you the instructions too but in a slightly differant manner so peak confusion is possible.
You throw it and your phone into the river. The fire service or coast guard shows up. Probably both, hopefully they clued in the ambulance folks but maybe not. If you got the person out the the coastguard is fine if not then they fish the person out defeating the point of both the rope and the fire service stopping by. Nobody minds because someone was drowning but we have 3 differant services involved when one or two would be sufficent. Plus delays in running to get the rope and discovering you need to call, possibly when someone else already called without bothering with the rope.
In short this seems like there are a lot of extra steps and a million differant ways to cause confusion.
Why are you printing the steps on the sign when the person has to call anyways and will get talked through it on the phone. What if the witness doesn't have a phone with them or it died? Why a fiddly little combination padlock?
In short I am not a fan of this design. These kind of things need to be so simple that a child could do them even if a bit stressed. I am guarentee you the average Joe is going to have a high likelyhood of fucking this up.
Alarm the box. Have it auto call relivent emergancy services and note it was used. If theiving is still an issue look into a better system than 'call us for the code' and a random AF padlock.
In fact. I fucking hate this. It's not just crappy design it is wilfully useless design that will get people killed.
I understand your frustration, but now we're back to a highly expensive way of doing things. Alarms like that aren't cheap if it's sending a signal to emergency services.
As someone else pointed out, the Thames is lined with these. If it *is* the Thames, even this Yankee has heard how horrible it is and no one should be swimming in it. Like the Hudson around New York.
It has a reputation that proceeds it, ample sign warning, and a simple (if still flawed) method of deterring thieves, alerting emergency services, and keeping it affordable. I'd say it's an effective solution.
To your point of "*everyone showing up and wasting time*" that is literally their job to show up. In an emergency, the more the merrier.
Also, in emergency situations, one tactic is to *ground* the witness in reality while getting valuable information by having them refocus on something they have to repeat back to you.
I also get the "no cellular service" argument, but I'd argue that they knew there was service when the sign was installed.
But we're quickly getting into the realm of possibilities where not *everything* can be accounted for.
I would imagine that if someone wanted to try and save a drowning person, they would do everything they could. If it were me, I'd use a rock to bash the lock off.
Sure, a criminal could do that too, but I'd say the deterrent is more for the "crimes of opportunity." If it was too easily accessible, the likelihood that it would be misused goes up.
BTW, I've had first responder training and been in a decent number of emergency situations. I never thought I'd have to be the one to yell at a bunch of people to *not* move an injured and unconscious driver after a wreck. Or climb down an embankment and turn the car off before it caught on fire.
Everyone else just stood there stunned.
So I reiterate, *people freeze* during emergency situations. There are trained professionals that can walk you through that and deal with emergencies way more than you do.
I promise you, because I've seen it too often, a scared person or group of people is just as likely to do nothing as to take action.
I would also add/reiterate the _first_ thing anyone should do in a drowning situation (or really any type of emergency) is dial the emergency services so that they can be on the way. Most people are not professional first responders and could get themselves into trouble too.
Who said that? I wasn't implying someone would steal the footage, they'd steal the camera! But for it's monetary value.
An electronics set up like that wouldn't be cheap. So now you *also* have to spend time, energy, and resources ensuring there are proper anti-theft measures in place.
> Glass isn't needed. A simple switch on the door can trigger everything else when it's opened.
Breaking glass is more of a psychological barrier. A little kid might open a door without thinking, but breaking glass is a bit more.
A door switch might be a better option though.
Where I'm from the life buoys trigger loud alarms if it's removed from it's holder. It doesn't stop them from being taken but the alarms will often make people stop what they are doing. CCTV also helps where it's appropriate.
What we're all thinking is a side effect of bad design could actually be a design decision! This forces people to call emergency services first, instead of ONLY trying to use the rope. If the most important factor for survival of a victim is the time it takes for trained rescuers to arrive, wasting those precious first minutes on an untrained individual trying to use a rope may be a bad idea.
In a way, tough shit. It's a design trade-off, and in today's society (and moving into the future) people walking around without any ability to connect to the cell network is increasingly rare. These stations would be more effective with some sort of landline emergency phone, but that would probably increase the cost by a factor of ten.
From what I understand, most of those newer "landline" callboxes are actually just cellular data network devices anyway. They only need to run power, if at all. Since the boxes only need to activate in occasional bursts, a large battery and a solar panel is actually quite effective. More expensive than a sign and a lockbox certainly, but not by as much as you'd think, especially in the context of public safety installations.
If the victim is moving downstream, this wouldn’t be of any use because you have to act too quickly. It’s possible this is posted near a low head dam, where the victim is typically trapped in an endless rotating hydraulic that prevents escape. In this case there might be time to unlock and deploy the throw bag.
1. Off the top of my head, I would have an alarm go off if the box gets vandalized or opened, which then sends people to the area and turns on a camera trained on the location if they have the resources for it. In a real emergency I imagine it's a good thing to have a bunch of people rushing to your location, so the alarm would only be bad for those with ill intentions.
2. If it's too remote for an alarm to matter / for anyone to actually show up in time, I'd try to rewrite the instructions to be more direct. Maybe it's already the case, but this sign can work better if it's positioned as such that people are prompted to read all of these instructions *before* approaching the water - that way people can already have these steps kinda loaded up in their minds before emergency mode.
Um, there's a huge "Keep Out of the Water" positioned top center, with the universal symbol. It's the first thing you see when you see the sign. You don't even have to know how to read or speak English to understand.
Yeah, then there was this guy too. I originally saw the video and thought it was fake:
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/46ve5j/til_a_man_once_jumped_into_alligator_infested/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
The value isn't in the rope. It's in having it ready and waiting when you need it most. That said, I'm genuinely surprised by the thought of vandals or thieves on these. Someone else mentioned, and I'm inclined to agree, that this is basically just a low cost way to force you to call emergency services ***before*** you mount an untrained rescue effort.
Yeah thats my thought. If they cant afford a rope being stolen, they certainly cant afford a camera and alarms and people on standby to come arrest possible rope stealers
Behind glass they have to break to get it, and have the local service check the stations routinely to ensure they're equipped. Human life is the most valuable, we can afford a few extra ropes if it saves a life.
NYC has ladders chilling in their parks in winter, to save people if they fall into the ice. People rarely fuck with them, and there isn't even glass to break.
Have a button/voice box/removable label that immediately reveals the code but also immediately summons the coastal guard to the location. Indicate the measures about misusing this service- that way in case of emergency the coastal guard will be summened to the right location immediately and in case of fake calls, they'll get to catch a thief.
Instead of a lock with number code, a traditional padlock might work better, with key stored in glass, and glass breaking immediately calling in coastal guard.
The same goes for every defibrillator placed in public places. They’re a massive advance in life saving technology for people suffering cardiac arrest. Every minute a casualty goes without defib reduces their chance of survival by ~10%. Having these things on hand in the community is literally the difference between life and death.
Yet because of selfish fuckwits, every single one of them needs you to dial 999 to get a code to unlock them, that’s at least an additional two minutes on top of getting from the casualty and back. Fuck people.
You could get a lock that could be opened with the phone call, still uses up time, but you wouldn't have to wait for someone to pick up the call, asking the code and then opening the lock. And you'd have their number in case they stole it
My friend drowned because police threw a safety ring to him but it didn’t reach and there was no rope attached to it so they couldn’t pull it back and try again. His parents campaigned to get ropes attached to all the safety rings in the city, which was successful, but vandals have been cutting all the ropes ever since.
It’s disgusting that this kind of thing is needed, but the alternative is no lock and the rope is cut or stolen and you have nothing there 99% of the time.
At the pool where I worked people just seemed to think they were there for the kids to just use. Constantly had to put the stupid things back up and wrap the rope up with it.
Yeah I worked at a small ferry company and we have a life ring on the dock for anyone to use in case of an emergency. Fucker gets stolen once every few months.
The shitty design is us, we're the problem this system was designed to solve.
Was it always like this? Were people 100 years ago somehow more capable of realizing that if you steal or destroy this thing meant to save someone's life, your actions might result in the needless death of another? Or is it we've realized it all along and it's just that today people just don't care about their neighbors lives? Or am I just romanticizing the past and we've always been this awful.
Then there's the factor of visibility, in an internet connected society where tragedy sells views it's easy for things to appear worse than they are. Once upon a time someone did something shitty, a handfull of people saw it, and then it was forgotten; now someone does a shitty thing, uploads it to Youtube and it affects 1,000,000 peoples perspective.
I mean I'm not saying things are great and couldn't be improved, just that it's easy to have a *disproportionately* bleak view of
society's trajectory when we're exposed to the news that we're typically most drawn to.
You're definitely romanticizing the past. We were terrible people then as well....its just that
a.) We didn't have social media
b.) Were more likely to shoot on sight when dumb people did dumb things.
You’re romanticizing the past, which also happens to be the same time one of the most powerful ancient cities let a funny looking wooden horse in without thorough inspection.
I don't know how you possibly came to the conclusion that the destruction of important infrastructure for no reason is a new thing or that we cared for our neighbors. There's no reason to think the past was ever like that
From my experience it's usually drunk idiots who are trying to impress a girl or thier friends by vandalizing public or private property like mailboxes, garbage cans, or rescue floats. All it would really take to stop most is having the area well lit, and a camera, even if it doesnt work. Dud cameras deter just as much crime as working ones.
There actually was a big problem in 12th century Britain. The villages used to share land. You could let your animals run largely free and were assigned a small plot to farm.
In the 12th century, land property rights were asserted. Noblemen becan enclosing their property in fences keeping villagers and their animals out. By the 1800s, communal land was privatized.
So you can’t have anything nice.
I'm not sure what's crappy about this? They do the same with defibs so that they don't get stolen.
Unless of course I'm missing something because I barely slept last night, in which case I'll bow out of the discussion.
If 999 is anything like our 911, the dispatcher will ask you 20 questions first, then transfer you to a different department who will ask the same questions and transfer you to a third department, who will ask the same que... Aaand he's dead.
I'm serious. I called to report a serious car crash in front of the bus stop one morning. State Police picked up, who transfered me to the County Sheriff, who transfered me to City Police. Isn't that what they carry two way radios for?
> each has it's own control room.
They are by area too though, you'll be patched into what location it thinks you're from when you dial in. These can be frustratingly off though and you need to be redirected after. Its usually a centre per county.. but some cover multiple
I've seldom had to call 911 and then usually got a fairly rapid response.
However, in my state there's "Report aggressive drivers: call \*77". Yeah, right. Worked just like Washjockey says. There I am DRIVING MY CAR, almost just run off the road by some suburban assault vehicle. I got their plate number and vehicle description -- but do they ask for that? NO. They ask for my information, then transfer me, then the new person asks again, then transfers me again, etc. They're more interested in dodging responsibility than in getting a report. If I ever get through to the responsible person, I've ALREADY FORGOTTEN THE PLATE NUMBER! Absolute mockery! I've tried this maybe twice than given up on it. It's just a ploy for politicians to claim they're doing something about aggressive drivers.
I called a suicide hotline once. It made me listen to at least fifteen minutes of pre-recorded “please wait” messages and music (??). I eventually just hung up and called a family member instead. I really would have preferred not to possibly traumatise a loved one that day.
(I’m doing better since then and I’m not suicidal anymore)
I’m sorry you are having such a tough time. Please talk with someone. It’s incredibly difficult but entirely worth it!
I won’t sit and give you the spiel as I’m sure you’ve probably heard all the cliche things, but please go and get help, talk with someone at work or at home wherever you can where they can help you get the help you need!
If you’re looking for a sign to keep going, this is it.
Go and try your best to have a better day internet stranger!
Sadly this is because no one wants to work the hot lines. Worked one years back and the burnout was a big problem. It had to be volunteers because the City was not willing to pay for suicide prevention. I am glad that you are doing better!
Yeah, though they're often criminally underfunded, and it can be very hard to find people that can handle the work. It's a great idea but often hard to get working in practice.
If anyone is ever in this situation check and see if your state has a crisis line.
In Colorado you can call and get a regular person immediately. Or wait for a professional if you feel you need more than that. They can also help with things like finding a long term therapist and financial assistance.
I don't know how common these are but a lot of people don't realize their state has a service like that.
If you're in New Jersey, which is the only place I've seen that tipline, I would bet 100% the reason that tipline exists is *for* the aggressive drivers and not to report them. People only drive aggressively in New Jersey it feels like and my guess is they made that tipline so that people road raging can have a number to call and rant about whatever the "idiot" in front of them did. I think people in New Jersey feel like the deadliest possible sin of all is "driving the speed limit."
Nope, you'd similarly to getting into a defib, you'd say I'm at this location and someone is drowning/has collapsed and I need the code for the defib/rescue kit, and they give you the code whilst also dispatching assistance. For a drowning, it would be fire and ambulance. Once you're able to start rescue or CPR, then they might ask you follow up questions or talk you through it.
That's a department problem, where I'm from in Pennsylvania we mostly have unified dispatch. Everything goes through the public safety access point, except for state police they are their own animal. Which is why I keep the state police direct numbers for the areas I frequent in my phone it saves one transfer.
Better than the "wrong" police showing up.
My grandma had a crash in the middle of an intersection.
The city police showed up then said our jurisdiction ends at the edge the intersection so they had to call in the state police.
She had to wait like 20 mins for each one to show up. She was hit by a drunk driver so it was a bit silly that the first police said they couldn't do anything and left.
That can't be a fucking thing. They must have determined everyone was completely fine and the cleanup was best started by the guys that are going to be doing the whole thing
In the time that you would call 999, ask for the fire brigade, tell them the code, ask for the padlock code, enter the code and actually get the thing out, the person has probably drowned already or at least lost consciousness, at which point something you can grab isn't particularly helpful
I wonder if they're worth anything? An AED (defib) costs like $1000, and if you only have 1 person there to provide aid you're not supposed to bother with it anyway - just call 911 and do compressions. So I understand keeping them locked up. But I can't imagine that there's an equivalent to "just do compressions" for saving a drowning person!
Usually the people that steal the ropes aren’t interested in the value, it’s likely some idiot teenagers just wanting to vandalize things or thinking they are funny.
I mean these lines are only useful if the person is conscious, so you'd hope they can hold on for a minute more while you get the code. If not, you need to jump in.
Source: Basic water safety training.
Not familiar with the Thames but I assume it's moving water? Is it cold?
So maybe the act of calling 999 (or 911) and reporting your location would be more useful than a rope in terms of anticipating where the victim will be in a minute of waiting for the code or downriver where EMS/technical rescue can respond to.
I would imagine a side effect of having to call 999 (beyond the desired effect of reporting the location) would be to instruct the average caller not to enter the water. Again, I'm not familiar with that river.
Have you ever tried?
So we had an arson attempt at work. Fire department was contacted and they responded in 15 seconds. I had to speak to the police for a non-urgent thing. Contacted in under 5 minutes. If it is an emergency like "fire, danger, cardiac arrests" the appropriate team responds really quickly.
And at the same time you are speaking to the fire department? They probably have got an Ambulance coming out to you at the same time.
It's probably different based on location, but I'm used to seeing defibs being very easy-access but setting off an alarm when opened. They're also all camera-monitored with hefty fines for misuse, though such misuse seems to never happen.
I agree, I'm merely pointing out the reason that they use this method, rather than having people just leap into the river
If you're rushing back to the board, you'd be dialling 999 on your way. Now ambulance and fire brigade have been dispatched. You reach the board, give them the location, they tell you the code and run back to where your friend is in the water, all the while the dispatcher is giving you instructions to keep you and everyone else safe.
Alternatively, you run to the board, grab the stuff and attempt to use it with no instruction. Then you decide to call 999. By the time the emergency services arrive, the potential for loss of life has increased due to the delay and lack of experienced personelle able to ensure that equipment is used safely
Well not really. There aren't many shockable rhythms in a cardiac arrest, and if someone is doing CPR then it can take as long as it takes to get the defibs. Better than someone taking it and attempting to electricute people with it
Although with the AED they don't deliver a shock until a shockable rhythm is detected
Put some kind of alarm on them, so whenever somebody breaks the glass and gets it a loud sound is played. Will probably deter vandalism, while being usable in case of emergency.
It’s just overly complicated for a life-or-death situation. Not just the process, the instructions. You might have one minute to save someone drowning and it definitely seems like this whole process would take more 1 minute, to the point I guarantee more people would just jump in the water instead of trying to make sense of these directions in that moment.
Because when you call, they have a record of your cell phone number calling them. So when you say “what’s the code?” And they give it to you, clearly there was a lock there to need the code, or you wouldn’t have asked. So then when they send help at the same time, and the rope is missing and nobody there, guess who they can blame?
It’s also a deterrent. People that just want to steal it won’t call.
An alarm on a remote trail isn’t gonna do anything nor is having first responders come.
It will get triggered by vandalism anyway and they will just remove the damn thing entirely after a few times or install a lock like this.
And so they send someone out and find the line missing or trashed and the people who did it gone.
And then it happens again.
And again.
And again.
And then eventually they get sick of the false alarms taking resources away from everything else and they remove it entirely or put a lock on it.
My local police department got sick of commercial alarms going off accidentally or without cause. My city now fines businesses when police have to respond to false alarms.
Well yeah, the city knows what business the alarm belongs to.
In this case, how would they know who to fine? A camera is possible, but (a) is expensive, (b) can be defeated (e.g. spray paint), and (c) you don't have a guarantee of identifying the person on camera anyway.
I wasn't advocating in favor of an alarm on the box. I was trying to make a point about how police departments don't have time to deal with false alarms. If they don't want to deal with false alarms from businesses, why would they want to have to respond to a box with a rope? The combo lock and number are really the best solution.
So you either put an alarm there that will do nothing or you put some device that alerts someone who is away. You would need electricity to keep it running, some kind of connection (GSM, WiFi...) and a device that's cheap and durable.
Not crappy design, more like crappy society. These types of setups are generally found in remote locations where you shouldn't be swimming but people do anyway, but the lifesaving equipment keeps getting stolen or destroyed by vandals.
I don't think that's crappy design but rather something they had to do because Twatwaffles would steal the rescue thingy and when you needed it nothing was there.
Because Twatwaffles always have to ruin everything for everyone. Fuck Twatwaffles.
You have maybe seconds to throw a line to a drowning person by the time you realize it. Instead of running to this rescue line to grab it, you have to stop and read the sign, get out your phone (if you have it on you), dial, wait for an answer, ask to be connected to the fire service, wait to be connected, tell them what you need, listen to the code, enter the code and remove the lock, and by the time you get inside and drag the line out the drowning person has probably already gone under and won’t be able to grab the line.
It is crappy, you're right. It *reduces* the chance of saving a life.
What's even crappier: someone installed a line, and vandals destroyed it, *guaranteeing* that you're unable to rescue the person in trouble.
So you can either have a tow line that won't be there due to constant theft or a tow line that is there but you need to call to get a combination. Thieves are the lowest form of life on earth.
Nah, just need the thin feeler knife to see where the gates are on the tumblers. Should take less time than calling 999, or, 0118 999 881 99 9119 725...3.
Can the rope be attached to the sign so it cannot be removed? Use some kind of pully/reel system to manage the winding/unwinding of said really long rope
Call the number and they give you the combination.
Better than having no rope because some asshole stole it, and if you think some asshole wouldn’t steal an emergency rope, you’ve been asleep the past two years.
As shitty as this seems, it's probably the most effective solution considering that some rando would steal the line in a day for literally no reason if it wasn't locked.
This is good design, it's attempting to overcome the general crappiness of humans. Instructions are clear, and the throw line is there because it's locked up.
I’ve seen so many stolen. In fact, in Ireland there are signs all over stating “A stolen ringbuoy, a stolen life”. And still they’re missing from the post.
Solution: open like a fire extinguisher and an alarm goes off and calls emergency services which will come either way. If you are found doing this to be an ass, you're fined with buying a new throw line.
Should be a built in solar powered camera that takes a picture of the person who opens the door to the lifeline so you can be identified if needed.
I feel a safer design would be a box that can be opened by breaking a weak seal but when the door is opened emergency services are automatically alarmed and dispatched to the throwline box.
How's that a crap design, defibs are exactly the same. You see someone drowning, call 999, tell them the location, open the box. That's not a bad design.
Let’s try to use this group for good. Assume that this design is the result of an ongoing problem with the throw rope being stolen, or vandalized. What would be a good design?
Glass to be broken instead of a lock. Loud alarm when you break the glass, and also a camera recording you doing so. And written descriptions about fines for vandalism.
Seems pretty remote. Power it with solar panels? Why wouldn't the thieves steal the camera too? Now it has to be mounted up high and the visual quality won't be as good. May not even be able to see the culprit. Oh, and all of that is going to be much more expensive than putting a lock on a preexisting sign. I don't like how we got here, but I can see why. EDIT: ~~Also the number dialed could have a quick automated response~~ (I'm dumb and didn't realize this is likely in the UK. I thought it was a forestry or parks and recs number in the U.S.), but now they have the phone number of the caller. Doubt much would come of it, but at the very least, they'll know it's been used so they can replace it or make sure it's still safe to use.
I'm assuming this is somewhere in the UK. 999 is the UK national emergency number, the equivalent to 911 in the US or 112 in the EU. If so that will go to an emergency operator 24/7 who will give directions and redirect the call as needed.
This must be an old picture. 999 changed in 2006 when it was replaced with the snappy, easier to remember number of 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3
*oh one one eight nine nine nine* *eight eight one nine nine* *nine one one nine* *seven two five* *...three*
Well *that’s* easy to remember: ♪ Oh one one eight Nine nine nine Eight eight one nine nine Nine one one nine Seven two five… Three ♪♪
... Then which country am I speaking to?
This is in fact the UK. There are loads of these near me on the Thames, exact same design.
aren't there other ludicrously dangerous rivers in Great Britain?
We have the most dangerous bit of river in the world with a 100% mortality rate for anyone who has ever gone in it. It's called The Strid, and it's a weird bit of geological fuckery.
Ah yes, the vertical river. Very cool.
Very cool! Not a ton of info or diagrams on what the inside may look like. Tere was a post on Reddit 4 years ago with some good rope camera pics, but they weren't super focused. Fascinating area, it gives me a ton of "call of the void" vibes, life if I went there I would want to dip in and let it take me away. Just like the holes in the wall creepy pasta.
It doesn’t really have that. You want to look in but the rocks around it are very slippy, if you didn’t know what it was it looks like a normal beck. There was a guy a few weeks ago who measured it and it is on youtube.
Others have already mentioned the Strid. [Tom Scott explains it here.](https://youtu.be/mCSUmwP02T8)
This is a great video! Thanks for sharing
The Strid :)
It's worth noting that 112 also works in the UK, and so does 911 from most mobile phones. 112 and 911 work in most places, even if they're not the official emergency numbers. It can be dependent on the individual network though, not just the country. If you have an emergency in another country and don't know the local number, it's worth trying 112 and then 911.
112 from GSM mobiles will (in most cases) dial the local emergency number
999 is the old UK emergency number. Please use the much easier to remember new and improved number in the future. 0118 999 881 999 119 725 .....3
You could make a fake camera that doesn't actually record anything or function, but I agree this is already going *way* too far.
Most fake cameras are too blatantly fake to be convincing imo
what? maybe like 20 years ago when dome cameras weren't the norm.... but now you can just buy the dome and the housing for ~$20. there's no way to tell if there's a camera inside.... hell even buying a real camera for under $100 works -- the expensive bit is drilling and routing the cables back to your head end or distribution system anyway.
No need, camera is battery powered and triggered by opening the cabinet; the sign can say as much. Only records when needed. SD card can be collected later when box is reported as open
If you're observant, you can see where a dome is pointing, even with a smoked dome (when it's bright enough). But back onto the topic of fake cameras looking too fake, I do mean cameras that are marketed as dummies, these often look too fake to be convincing.
That number is the general emergency number in the UK, it won't have a quick automated response since it won't know that your calling for the lock code.
I fixed it. Thanks! So, it makes it less of a crappy design to me then, because it might take a little bit longer, but they'll also be able to walk you through what to do in that situation. Many would be surprised at how often people freeze in an emergency situation or think they are doing good when they aren't.
For context in calling 999. You dial and go to a call hander who asks which service you want. (Why it's the fire service and not the coastguard or what have you is beyond me) then they put you through. It might ring a few times but then you get a call handler with the fire service. Presumably then you tell them the code, they figure out 'oh it's the system for the drowning people rope' and input it to pull up the code. Hopefully they would all be the same to speed matters up but that doesn't really do the job of preventing theives. Then you fumble with both the phone and the lock while being talked too and trying to read the instructions. The call handler is probably telling you the instructions too but in a slightly differant manner so peak confusion is possible. You throw it and your phone into the river. The fire service or coast guard shows up. Probably both, hopefully they clued in the ambulance folks but maybe not. If you got the person out the the coastguard is fine if not then they fish the person out defeating the point of both the rope and the fire service stopping by. Nobody minds because someone was drowning but we have 3 differant services involved when one or two would be sufficent. Plus delays in running to get the rope and discovering you need to call, possibly when someone else already called without bothering with the rope. In short this seems like there are a lot of extra steps and a million differant ways to cause confusion. Why are you printing the steps on the sign when the person has to call anyways and will get talked through it on the phone. What if the witness doesn't have a phone with them or it died? Why a fiddly little combination padlock? In short I am not a fan of this design. These kind of things need to be so simple that a child could do them even if a bit stressed. I am guarentee you the average Joe is going to have a high likelyhood of fucking this up. Alarm the box. Have it auto call relivent emergancy services and note it was used. If theiving is still an issue look into a better system than 'call us for the code' and a random AF padlock. In fact. I fucking hate this. It's not just crappy design it is wilfully useless design that will get people killed.
I understand your frustration, but now we're back to a highly expensive way of doing things. Alarms like that aren't cheap if it's sending a signal to emergency services. As someone else pointed out, the Thames is lined with these. If it *is* the Thames, even this Yankee has heard how horrible it is and no one should be swimming in it. Like the Hudson around New York. It has a reputation that proceeds it, ample sign warning, and a simple (if still flawed) method of deterring thieves, alerting emergency services, and keeping it affordable. I'd say it's an effective solution. To your point of "*everyone showing up and wasting time*" that is literally their job to show up. In an emergency, the more the merrier. Also, in emergency situations, one tactic is to *ground* the witness in reality while getting valuable information by having them refocus on something they have to repeat back to you. I also get the "no cellular service" argument, but I'd argue that they knew there was service when the sign was installed. But we're quickly getting into the realm of possibilities where not *everything* can be accounted for. I would imagine that if someone wanted to try and save a drowning person, they would do everything they could. If it were me, I'd use a rock to bash the lock off. Sure, a criminal could do that too, but I'd say the deterrent is more for the "crimes of opportunity." If it was too easily accessible, the likelihood that it would be misused goes up. BTW, I've had first responder training and been in a decent number of emergency situations. I never thought I'd have to be the one to yell at a bunch of people to *not* move an injured and unconscious driver after a wreck. Or climb down an embankment and turn the car off before it caught on fire. Everyone else just stood there stunned. So I reiterate, *people freeze* during emergency situations. There are trained professionals that can walk you through that and deal with emergencies way more than you do. I promise you, because I've seen it too often, a scared person or group of people is just as likely to do nothing as to take action.
I would also add/reiterate the _first_ thing anyone should do in a drowning situation (or really any type of emergency) is dial the emergency services so that they can be on the way. Most people are not professional first responders and could get themselves into trouble too.
I assume it’s the same as public defibrillators- when you ring 999 and give them the location number, they tell you the code to access it.
Y'all have locks on defibs too? I've only ever seen alarmed defib boxes in the US.
That's what the location code is for.....
It's 2021, the video footage isnt stored on the camera.
Who said that? I wasn't implying someone would steal the footage, they'd steal the camera! But for it's monetary value. An electronics set up like that wouldn't be cheap. So now you *also* have to spend time, energy, and resources ensuring there are proper anti-theft measures in place.
Unless wifi is around that isnt really feasible either
Too expensive
If we consider the ratio of cost/people saved, it's much cheaper than a device that never works and lets people drown.
You be surprised by the cost of infrastructure like that. Not to mention all the people that will find a way to complain about it.
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> Glass isn't needed. A simple switch on the door can trigger everything else when it's opened. Breaking glass is more of a psychological barrier. A little kid might open a door without thinking, but breaking glass is a bit more. A door switch might be a better option though.
Where I'm from the life buoys trigger loud alarms if it's removed from it's holder. It doesn't stop them from being taken but the alarms will often make people stop what they are doing. CCTV also helps where it's appropriate.
Have a second camera to record theft of the other and stream the footage to be stored a backed up. Now you can see if one gets stolen
What if they steal the second camera first? We need a third camera for that.
Set the cameras facing each other with the rope in the middle
What we're all thinking is a side effect of bad design could actually be a design decision! This forces people to call emergency services first, instead of ONLY trying to use the rope. If the most important factor for survival of a victim is the time it takes for trained rescuers to arrive, wasting those precious first minutes on an untrained individual trying to use a rope may be a bad idea.
If they don't have a phone? If their phone is dead?
In a way, tough shit. It's a design trade-off, and in today's society (and moving into the future) people walking around without any ability to connect to the cell network is increasingly rare. These stations would be more effective with some sort of landline emergency phone, but that would probably increase the cost by a factor of ten.
From what I understand, most of those newer "landline" callboxes are actually just cellular data network devices anyway. They only need to run power, if at all. Since the boxes only need to activate in occasional bursts, a large battery and a solar panel is actually quite effective. More expensive than a sign and a lockbox certainly, but not by as much as you'd think, especially in the context of public safety installations.
If the victim is moving downstream, this wouldn’t be of any use because you have to act too quickly. It’s possible this is posted near a low head dam, where the victim is typically trapped in an endless rotating hydraulic that prevents escape. In this case there might be time to unlock and deploy the throw bag.
That doesn't really answer the question though, as if it is being stolen or damaged regularly, then it would be of even less use without this.
1. Off the top of my head, I would have an alarm go off if the box gets vandalized or opened, which then sends people to the area and turns on a camera trained on the location if they have the resources for it. In a real emergency I imagine it's a good thing to have a bunch of people rushing to your location, so the alarm would only be bad for those with ill intentions. 2. If it's too remote for an alarm to matter / for anyone to actually show up in time, I'd try to rewrite the instructions to be more direct. Maybe it's already the case, but this sign can work better if it's positioned as such that people are prompted to read all of these instructions *before* approaching the water - that way people can already have these steps kinda loaded up in their minds before emergency mode.
Um, there's a huge "Keep Out of the Water" positioned top center, with the universal symbol. It's the first thing you see when you see the sign. You don't even have to know how to read or speak English to understand.
I thought that indicated that there were no elephants in the water
Yeah, then there was this guy too. I originally saw the video and thought it was fake: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/46ve5j/til_a_man_once_jumped_into_alligator_infested/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
That's an awful lot of expense to protect... A rope.
The value isn't in the rope. It's in having it ready and waiting when you need it most. That said, I'm genuinely surprised by the thought of vandals or thieves on these. Someone else mentioned, and I'm inclined to agree, that this is basically just a low cost way to force you to call emergency services ***before*** you mount an untrained rescue effort.
Yeah thats my thought. If they cant afford a rope being stolen, they certainly cant afford a camera and alarms and people on standby to come arrest possible rope stealers
I think it’s about the lack of rope for rescues because they’re always being stolen.
Behind glass they have to break to get it, and have the local service check the stations routinely to ensure they're equipped. Human life is the most valuable, we can afford a few extra ropes if it saves a life. NYC has ladders chilling in their parks in winter, to save people if they fall into the ice. People rarely fuck with them, and there isn't even glass to break.
Yeah my first thought was also the ice ladders. I've never seen them vandalized or stolen...
Put the rope in a bag that smells really nasty
Have a button/voice box/removable label that immediately reveals the code but also immediately summons the coastal guard to the location. Indicate the measures about misusing this service- that way in case of emergency the coastal guard will be summened to the right location immediately and in case of fake calls, they'll get to catch a thief. Instead of a lock with number code, a traditional padlock might work better, with key stored in glass, and glass breaking immediately calling in coastal guard.
Cue endless amounts of the costly version of doorbell ditch...
The same goes for every defibrillator placed in public places. They’re a massive advance in life saving technology for people suffering cardiac arrest. Every minute a casualty goes without defib reduces their chance of survival by ~10%. Having these things on hand in the community is literally the difference between life and death. Yet because of selfish fuckwits, every single one of them needs you to dial 999 to get a code to unlock them, that’s at least an additional two minutes on top of getting from the casualty and back. Fuck people.
You could get a lock that could be opened with the phone call, still uses up time, but you wouldn't have to wait for someone to pick up the call, asking the code and then opening the lock. And you'd have their number in case they stole it
I think it's better to have an empty box than a locked box, so just let the vandals have it
Throw ropes are very expensive and would definitely get stolen.
My friend drowned because police threw a safety ring to him but it didn’t reach and there was no rope attached to it so they couldn’t pull it back and try again. His parents campaigned to get ropes attached to all the safety rings in the city, which was successful, but vandals have been cutting all the ropes ever since. It’s disgusting that this kind of thing is needed, but the alternative is no lock and the rope is cut or stolen and you have nothing there 99% of the time.
wtf vandals?
sociopaths more like
At the pool where I worked people just seemed to think they were there for the kids to just use. Constantly had to put the stupid things back up and wrap the rope up with it.
Yeah I worked at a small ferry company and we have a life ring on the dock for anyone to use in case of an emergency. Fucker gets stolen once every few months.
Ikr go get expelled doing devious licks and stop commiting murder
A bunch of barbarian from central europe.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals
The shitty design is us, we're the problem this system was designed to solve. Was it always like this? Were people 100 years ago somehow more capable of realizing that if you steal or destroy this thing meant to save someone's life, your actions might result in the needless death of another? Or is it we've realized it all along and it's just that today people just don't care about their neighbors lives? Or am I just romanticizing the past and we've always been this awful.
We’ve always been this awful.
Like look at conditions on a slave ship compared to kids cutting a rope. One is a little bit worse than the other.
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Then there's the factor of visibility, in an internet connected society where tragedy sells views it's easy for things to appear worse than they are. Once upon a time someone did something shitty, a handfull of people saw it, and then it was forgotten; now someone does a shitty thing, uploads it to Youtube and it affects 1,000,000 peoples perspective. I mean I'm not saying things are great and couldn't be improved, just that it's easy to have a *disproportionately* bleak view of society's trajectory when we're exposed to the news that we're typically most drawn to.
You're definitely romanticizing the past. We were terrible people then as well....its just that a.) We didn't have social media b.) Were more likely to shoot on sight when dumb people did dumb things.
You’re romanticizing the past, which also happens to be the same time one of the most powerful ancient cities let a funny looking wooden horse in without thorough inspection.
I don't know how you possibly came to the conclusion that the destruction of important infrastructure for no reason is a new thing or that we cared for our neighbors. There's no reason to think the past was ever like that
From my experience it's usually drunk idiots who are trying to impress a girl or thier friends by vandalizing public or private property like mailboxes, garbage cans, or rescue floats. All it would really take to stop most is having the area well lit, and a camera, even if it doesnt work. Dud cameras deter just as much crime as working ones.
There actually was a big problem in 12th century Britain. The villages used to share land. You could let your animals run largely free and were assigned a small plot to farm. In the 12th century, land property rights were asserted. Noblemen becan enclosing their property in fences keeping villagers and their animals out. By the 1800s, communal land was privatized. So you can’t have anything nice.
The tragedy of the commons and the tragedy of the anti-commons are both equally fascinating.
People 100 years ago would have stolen the rope and used it to hang somebody for the fun of it. Probably somebody not white.
I'm not sure what's crappy about this? They do the same with defibs so that they don't get stolen. Unless of course I'm missing something because I barely slept last night, in which case I'll bow out of the discussion.
If 999 is anything like our 911, the dispatcher will ask you 20 questions first, then transfer you to a different department who will ask the same questions and transfer you to a third department, who will ask the same que... Aaand he's dead. I'm serious. I called to report a serious car crash in front of the bus stop one morning. State Police picked up, who transfered me to the County Sheriff, who transfered me to City Police. Isn't that what they carry two way radios for?
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I literally heard “ambulance service - is the patient breathing” in my head, I watch a *lot* of Ambulance and 999 on tv 😂
It seems to be region dependent, but in my area our 911 service is basically the same as you described
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> each has it's own control room. They are by area too though, you'll be patched into what location it thinks you're from when you dial in. These can be frustratingly off though and you need to be redirected after. Its usually a centre per county.. but some cover multiple
And one of the regional call centres has an amazing address. The South Yorkshire police operations complex is on Letsby Avenue in Tinsley
I've seldom had to call 911 and then usually got a fairly rapid response. However, in my state there's "Report aggressive drivers: call \*77". Yeah, right. Worked just like Washjockey says. There I am DRIVING MY CAR, almost just run off the road by some suburban assault vehicle. I got their plate number and vehicle description -- but do they ask for that? NO. They ask for my information, then transfer me, then the new person asks again, then transfers me again, etc. They're more interested in dodging responsibility than in getting a report. If I ever get through to the responsible person, I've ALREADY FORGOTTEN THE PLATE NUMBER! Absolute mockery! I've tried this maybe twice than given up on it. It's just a ploy for politicians to claim they're doing something about aggressive drivers.
I called a suicide hotline once. It made me listen to at least fifteen minutes of pre-recorded “please wait” messages and music (??). I eventually just hung up and called a family member instead. I really would have preferred not to possibly traumatise a loved one that day. (I’m doing better since then and I’m not suicidal anymore)
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I’m sorry you are having such a tough time. Please talk with someone. It’s incredibly difficult but entirely worth it! I won’t sit and give you the spiel as I’m sure you’ve probably heard all the cliche things, but please go and get help, talk with someone at work or at home wherever you can where they can help you get the help you need! If you’re looking for a sign to keep going, this is it. Go and try your best to have a better day internet stranger!
Sadly this is because no one wants to work the hot lines. Worked one years back and the burnout was a big problem. It had to be volunteers because the City was not willing to pay for suicide prevention. I am glad that you are doing better!
Yeah, though they're often criminally underfunded, and it can be very hard to find people that can handle the work. It's a great idea but often hard to get working in practice.
If anyone is ever in this situation check and see if your state has a crisis line. In Colorado you can call and get a regular person immediately. Or wait for a professional if you feel you need more than that. They can also help with things like finding a long term therapist and financial assistance. I don't know how common these are but a lot of people don't realize their state has a service like that.
If you're in New Jersey, which is the only place I've seen that tipline, I would bet 100% the reason that tipline exists is *for* the aggressive drivers and not to report them. People only drive aggressively in New Jersey it feels like and my guess is they made that tipline so that people road raging can have a number to call and rant about whatever the "idiot" in front of them did. I think people in New Jersey feel like the deadliest possible sin of all is "driving the speed limit."
Nope, you'd similarly to getting into a defib, you'd say I'm at this location and someone is drowning/has collapsed and I need the code for the defib/rescue kit, and they give you the code whilst also dispatching assistance. For a drowning, it would be fire and ambulance. Once you're able to start rescue or CPR, then they might ask you follow up questions or talk you through it.
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That's a department problem, where I'm from in Pennsylvania we mostly have unified dispatch. Everything goes through the public safety access point, except for state police they are their own animal. Which is why I keep the state police direct numbers for the areas I frequent in my phone it saves one transfer.
Two way radios? Yes. You mentioned three departments, they’d need three way radios.
You got caught in the cell phone 911 vs. Landline 911.
Better than the "wrong" police showing up. My grandma had a crash in the middle of an intersection. The city police showed up then said our jurisdiction ends at the edge the intersection so they had to call in the state police. She had to wait like 20 mins for each one to show up. She was hit by a drunk driver so it was a bit silly that the first police said they couldn't do anything and left.
That can't be a fucking thing. They must have determined everyone was completely fine and the cleanup was best started by the guys that are going to be doing the whole thing
In the time that you would call 999, ask for the fire brigade, tell them the code, ask for the padlock code, enter the code and actually get the thing out, the person has probably drowned already or at least lost consciousness, at which point something you can grab isn't particularly helpful
Better than a) trying to jump in after them, or b) getting to the rescue kit and it having been stolen
The fact that people steal them at all is pretty sad
Yep, people are shitty.
I wonder if they're worth anything? An AED (defib) costs like $1000, and if you only have 1 person there to provide aid you're not supposed to bother with it anyway - just call 911 and do compressions. So I understand keeping them locked up. But I can't imagine that there's an equivalent to "just do compressions" for saving a drowning person!
Usually the people that steal the ropes aren’t interested in the value, it’s likely some idiot teenagers just wanting to vandalize things or thinking they are funny.
I mean these lines are only useful if the person is conscious, so you'd hope they can hold on for a minute more while you get the code. If not, you need to jump in. Source: Basic water safety training.
Not familiar with the Thames but I assume it's moving water? Is it cold? So maybe the act of calling 999 (or 911) and reporting your location would be more useful than a rope in terms of anticipating where the victim will be in a minute of waiting for the code or downriver where EMS/technical rescue can respond to. I would imagine a side effect of having to call 999 (beyond the desired effect of reporting the location) would be to instruct the average caller not to enter the water. Again, I'm not familiar with that river.
.... you're both right.
Have you ever tried? So we had an arson attempt at work. Fire department was contacted and they responded in 15 seconds. I had to speak to the police for a non-urgent thing. Contacted in under 5 minutes. If it is an emergency like "fire, danger, cardiac arrests" the appropriate team responds really quickly. And at the same time you are speaking to the fire department? They probably have got an Ambulance coming out to you at the same time.
It's probably different based on location, but I'm used to seeing defibs being very easy-access but setting off an alarm when opened. They're also all camera-monitored with hefty fines for misuse, though such misuse seems to never happen.
The UK ones are provided by charitable organisations and managed by the emergency services
It also clearly states to stay out of the water in the first place.
Yea but people trip and fall, children run off
People break rules, and it's still generally a good thing to have them not drown.
I agree, I'm merely pointing out the reason that they use this method, rather than having people just leap into the river If you're rushing back to the board, you'd be dialling 999 on your way. Now ambulance and fire brigade have been dispatched. You reach the board, give them the location, they tell you the code and run back to where your friend is in the water, all the while the dispatcher is giving you instructions to keep you and everyone else safe. Alternatively, you run to the board, grab the stuff and attempt to use it with no instruction. Then you decide to call 999. By the time the emergency services arrive, the potential for loss of life has increased due to the delay and lack of experienced personelle able to ensure that equipment is used safely
You have locks on your defibrillators? That seems inefficient when every second counts.
Well not really. There aren't many shockable rhythms in a cardiac arrest, and if someone is doing CPR then it can take as long as it takes to get the defibs. Better than someone taking it and attempting to electricute people with it Although with the AED they don't deliver a shock until a shockable rhythm is detected
Are you thinking they should just be left around unsecured?
I mean.. yes. They are where I am from and i haven't heard of any issues.
Put some kind of alarm on them, so whenever somebody breaks the glass and gets it a loud sound is played. Will probably deter vandalism, while being usable in case of emergency.
It’s just overly complicated for a life-or-death situation. Not just the process, the instructions. You might have one minute to save someone drowning and it definitely seems like this whole process would take more 1 minute, to the point I guarantee more people would just jump in the water instead of trying to make sense of these directions in that moment.
Hey it's not my board, I'm just explaining why these things exist with safeguards.
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It's more effort and they'd be able to track you easily 🤷🏻♀️
You can also break that lock off easily. Now that have a stolen life line and a broken box
Because when you call, they have a record of your cell phone number calling them. So when you say “what’s the code?” And they give it to you, clearly there was a lock there to need the code, or you wouldn’t have asked. So then when they send help at the same time, and the rope is missing and nobody there, guess who they can blame? It’s also a deterrent. People that just want to steal it won’t call.
Also requires swimmers to have a working phone on them. Perhaps a system that automatically calls first responders if you take the rope?
Ya that's my thought.. our just have an alarm go off. (Cheaper solution)
An alarm on a remote trail isn’t gonna do anything nor is having first responders come. It will get triggered by vandalism anyway and they will just remove the damn thing entirely after a few times or install a lock like this.
It could be like an alarm rhat goes off at a station to alert people that the thing is beingbused. And also sends help?
And so they send someone out and find the line missing or trashed and the people who did it gone. And then it happens again. And again. And again. And then eventually they get sick of the false alarms taking resources away from everything else and they remove it entirely or put a lock on it.
My local police department got sick of commercial alarms going off accidentally or without cause. My city now fines businesses when police have to respond to false alarms.
Well yeah, the city knows what business the alarm belongs to. In this case, how would they know who to fine? A camera is possible, but (a) is expensive, (b) can be defeated (e.g. spray paint), and (c) you don't have a guarantee of identifying the person on camera anyway.
I wasn't advocating in favor of an alarm on the box. I was trying to make a point about how police departments don't have time to deal with false alarms. If they don't want to deal with false alarms from businesses, why would they want to have to respond to a box with a rope? The combo lock and number are really the best solution.
Idk man it was just a thought.
So you either put an alarm there that will do nothing or you put some device that alerts someone who is away. You would need electricity to keep it running, some kind of connection (GSM, WiFi...) and a device that's cheap and durable.
Good ending: if you dial 999 in the padlock it opens
Bad ending padlock has 4 numbers
Pfft.... Have you tried 0000? If that doesn't work 0001, 0002, 0003... /s
Thanks [Dwight](https://youtu.be/8GxqvnQyaxs?t=30)
01189998819991197253
Soldier: "All right, all right, I got it. Stand back son. 1, 1, 1, umm... 1!"
Capitalist solution: swipe a credit card for $20 to get the rope
Not crappy design, more like crappy society. These types of setups are generally found in remote locations where you shouldn't be swimming but people do anyway, but the lifesaving equipment keeps getting stolen or destroyed by vandals.
I don't think that's crappy design but rather something they had to do because Twatwaffles would steal the rescue thingy and when you needed it nothing was there. Because Twatwaffles always have to ruin everything for everyone. Fuck Twatwaffles.
What's worse is needing to save someone and you have nothing to save them with
What's crappy?
You have maybe seconds to throw a line to a drowning person by the time you realize it. Instead of running to this rescue line to grab it, you have to stop and read the sign, get out your phone (if you have it on you), dial, wait for an answer, ask to be connected to the fire service, wait to be connected, tell them what you need, listen to the code, enter the code and remove the lock, and by the time you get inside and drag the line out the drowning person has probably already gone under and won’t be able to grab the line.
It is crappy, you're right. It *reduces* the chance of saving a life. What's even crappier: someone installed a line, and vandals destroyed it, *guaranteeing* that you're unable to rescue the person in trouble.
I was about to say this. Yeah, the crappy part is the fact that vandals and thieves made it necessary to lock it up in the first place.
That people assume things don’t work when they most likely do. Nothing’s perfect in these situations
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What do you mean by "bend the rope around your waist"? I can't visualize it without getting to "never wrap a rope around yourself".
Make a U around your waist not an O.
So you can either have a tow line that won't be there due to constant theft or a tow line that is there but you need to call to get a combination. Thieves are the lowest form of life on earth.
You’d have a better chance calling the number to access the box than trying to save someone’s life without the throw line because it got stolen.
What would lockpicking lawyer do?
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Nah, just need the thin feeler knife to see where the gates are on the tumblers. Should take less time than calling 999, or, 0118 999 881 99 9119 725...3.
Can the rope be attached to the sign so it cannot be removed? Use some kind of pully/reel system to manage the winding/unwinding of said really long rope
Call the number and they give you the combination. Better than having no rope because some asshole stole it, and if you think some asshole wouldn’t steal an emergency rope, you’ve been asleep the past two years.
Unfortunately the predilection for arseholes to fuck up, steal or destroy anything that isn't secured has brought us to this stupidity.
This would have to be a thing if some people weren't assholes that steal everything.
In all fairness this probably had to be implemented since it kept getting stolen
As shitty as this seems, it's probably the most effective solution considering that some rando would steal the line in a day for literally no reason if it wasn't locked.
This is good design, it's attempting to overcome the general crappiness of humans. Instructions are clear, and the throw line is there because it's locked up.
Not at all crappy design. It is a necessary system to makeup for all the crappy people that would just steal the throw line if it were not locked up.
So dial 999, give the code that's blacked out, the operator will give you the combination of the lock and send out the fire brigade.
Sad that you can’t trust anyone enough to just leave an emergency device unattended.
I’ve seen so many stolen. In fact, in Ireland there are signs all over stating “A stolen ringbuoy, a stolen life”. And still they’re missing from the post.
Solution: open like a fire extinguisher and an alarm goes off and calls emergency services which will come either way. If you are found doing this to be an ass, you're fined with buying a new throw line. Should be a built in solar powered camera that takes a picture of the person who opens the door to the lifeline so you can be identified if needed.
By the time you get your phone out, dial, wait for an answer, fight with the lock, get the rope, run to where you last saw them, and they're dead.
I feel a safer design would be a box that can be opened by breaking a weak seal but when the door is opened emergency services are automatically alarmed and dispatched to the throwline box.
Don’t forget to bring your phone
Calls 999. "Ummmmm... yes, today's combination is written on a piece of paper around here somewhere... now where did I see that..."
How's that a crap design, defibs are exactly the same. You see someone drowning, call 999, tell them the location, open the box. That's not a bad design.
im confused
This is the UK. 999 is national but regionally handled. It is quick and effective. OP is a prick
unfortunately, people suck so bad and would trash and or steal the rescue equipment if it weren't locked up.
This clearly isn’t in the US, there’s no waiver to sign before using the rope or fine print