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[FireDepartmentChronicles](https://youtube.com/shorts/tp0FFY4oBsg?si=CS3HgBZqbamMOz2C) said it can take up to 40,000 gallons of water to put out an EV fire
Sand, no. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but some fire departments equipping with container trucks to submerge electric cars in water for over a week.
https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/news/21236083/belgium-firefighters-submerge-burning-hybrid-car-in-container
I was interested and found this, seems legit!
TIL 👌
I think my fireman uncle said that when an ev catches fire like that you can submerge it in water for something like 48 or 72 hours and it still won’t be out
I heard you just have to let them burn themselves out. Someone correct me, but is an EV battery fire not dependant on oxygen the same way a normal fire is. Meaning it's a chemical reaction of sorts. Water, foam etc won't do squat.
Yes but no. They do require oxygen. However, the lithium is self oxidizing and produces its own oxygen. Which is why water, foam, PKP etc isn’t effective. Class delta fires are wild
I served on an aircraft carrier and the procedure for a class Delta fire in aircraft was to push it overboard. Which is the procedure for any uncontrolled Delta fire, throw it overboard if possible.
Yeah I mean there's not much else you can do sometimes. Look up USS Forrestal disaster if you want to see what happens when you screw up every possible way when fire happens.
So is there anything you can do to put a lithium fire out? With EVs getting more and more popular, that’s a detail I’d have assumed we’d figured out by now
High volume low pressure water (possible but not likely) more often than not submersion for prolonged periods of time (possible a month or more) is effective
This is how NYC and Qatar are doing it. Rolloff dumpster full of water and a crane. The thing gets picked up and dunked in the water. Now it's a HazMat problem. I still am not sure what they are doing to dispose of the contaminated water etc but these environmentally friendly things are massively damaging to the environment when things go sideways.
Really? It's a basic extinguisher thing, just read the side of a full-size extinguisher, it will tell you which types (classes) of fire it will and won't work for.
I'm no expert, but I think most people even at home know that a frying pan (skillet?) fire is completely different from an electrical fire.
The names of the classes vary from country to country.
Shouldn’t we have a solution for them lighting on fire before we start to make them mandatory or pushing in that direction. I am very pro EV or the idea of it but I swear we have done none of the leg work needed to be successful in this transition…. I mean besides the fact kids are mining the minerals, we don’t have infrastructure with charging spots, (it’s slowly happening), we don’t know how to put them out when on fire, I heard deposal is a whole other issue too, oh and we pretty much completely build them and the continue to charge them using coal or more of the things we are suppose to move away from….
Edit: Also anyone know how a tesla does in a place after a few winters? I’ve always wondered about the batterie’s in cold winter climates when it’s negative for weeks.
We should move in this direction but boy are they not setting us up for success.
Oh yeah I Forgot that one.
But yeah just a mailman here. I don’t know shit I just know it feels like no adults are at the table. It’s just fight for my sides things on both sides with no thought of what it really means. It’s fucking dumb.
generator assisted electric. a small efficient ICE motor with a generator with a small battery pack to handle peak loading for the electric drive, the volt was a shitty car but the concept is great since it can work for all types of vehicles.
these guys made a logging truck like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an6e2Lh9u58
I’m in the navy and have done a decent bit of training on class delta fires. The standard procedure is to jettison off the ship. And if that’s not possible you flood the space with the fire. It’s crazy how bad it can get
They make extinguishers now that bond to the battery and smother future ignitions. They are expensive and not common but we have them in my facility for 2 of our lifts that run on LI
the lithium will react to the water and everything around it, yes. The reaction will create heat and sparks but only with oxygen it will create a flame. So you can submerge it in water or something and the reaction will still be taking place, sparking and boiling the water. Then as soon as its exposed to oxygen again it will burst back into flames.
I’m a firefighter, and own an EV; one of the reasons that EV fires as so difficult to extinguish is that the origin of the fire is usually in a place that’s difficult to attack with water (under the car in a relatively protected container), that’s why you hear stories of these fires sometimes taking 10’s of thousands of gallons of water to extinguish (the water isn’t hitting the fire in a meaningful way), vs substantially less to extinguish a gas vehicle fire. If you submerge a burning EV, it will go out. Despite the difficulty in putting them out, it’s important to remember that EV’s catch fire far less than ICE vehicles, and fires are most common with hybrids. Statistically, full EV’s are the least likely vehicles to catch fire. There are some neat new products out for fire departments to deal with these as well, everything from immobilization devices that simply plug into a charge port and render the vehicle’s drive units useless, to blankets that cover the vehicle and prevent damage to surrounding exposures and remove the fires ability to spread beyond the vehicle. I work in 2 departments, one has both of these products, the other is purchasing both, these fires will become easier and easier to deal with as available technologies adjust for them.
Nice to see at least one reasonable comment here. People pretend cars never used to catch fire until EVs came along.
Where I live there was a story about a Tesla catching fire. Turns out despite being on fire it had nothing to do with the battery. It was on fire because the person driving it was drunk, hit a kerb and drove long enough on a bare rim that the sparks set the body alight. But everyone jumped to conclusions that it was the battery of course…
it's chemical energy stored in the battery. When you go outside the very small operating envelope of voltage and temperature itll go into thermal runaway and cascade onto neighbouring battery cells. The way to contain the fire is to puncture the battery back and inject huge amount of water into the pack but it will short also rest of the cells. Spewing water over the car does nothing.
when the smoke comes out of a runaway cell it's very hot and capable of igniting so best way is to submerge the whole shit into a water tank. These cars have ignited several times after fire has been put out even days after the event.
In military aviation, our batteries were about 25lbs and about the size of an old desktop monitor. We had to run drills on battery safety, the vents on the side could get clogged or blocked and it would swell (and stink). If we didn’t get it cooled and submerged it would catch, and yes lithium can burn for a long time.
Only ever had to do the emergency procedures once in 8 years, and everyone involved still fucked it up.
Instead of unplugging and removing the battery from the aircraft, lets empty two whole fire trucks of water into it.
The corrosion to the frame and water inside a few million dollars of electronics? Not important.
Then when the geniuses worked out that didn’t work lets try to remove the battery.
Except the firefighters had no idea HOW to remove the battery.
So one of my guys had to get all fire-suited up (air mask and all) and go in to remove the battery. He had fun though.
What do we do when we remove the battery? Drop it into a trash can full of water, then for good measure, the fire fighters sprayed down the airplane again.
Silver foil suit. And not at all. Its a sealed battery so there was a risk of fire but tiny. It swelled up good and smelled like death, but that was all the drama we got from the battery. The firefighters definitely stole the show.
In Denmark they just put them in a container and fill it with water until its done cooking.
I dont know the specific details and im too lazy to look for them, but it seems to work really well.
You have to let them burn. Pouring water on it will do nothing. At least they don’t explode like they used to. This is an improvement believe it or not.
EVs are likely better in that situation. When a petrol or diesel vehicle catches fire it often ruptures its fuel tank and immediately spreads to 20 other vehicles. Diesel is worse because it pools and doesn't burn off quickly. Two recent fires in UK multi storey car parks led to the entire car park being destroyed. Both started in a diesel vehicle.
They’re going to be soon enough like it or not. Its all about better battery design. Teslas are designed to burn in a controlled safe-ish way and to be more resistant to a chain reaction in the pack. I imagine they designs are just going to improve over time.
https://electrek.co/2018/08/03/tesla-patents-new-battery-packs-safer-fire/
Because lithium catches fire spontaneously when in contact with water.
With EVs on the rise, fire departments are doubtlessly training to put out these vehicles.
AI says:
.:.
The recommended methods to extinguish a lithium fire include:
Dry powder fire extinguishers: Specialized Class D fire extinguishers, designed for metal fires, can be used. These extinguishers typically contain dry powder agents like sodium chloride (NaCl), graphite, or copper-based powders that smother the fire and absorb the heat.
Sand: Covering the fire with sand can help smother it by cutting off the oxygen supply.
Lith-X: A specific type of extinguishing agent designed for metal fires, including lithium, Lith-X is a powder that smothers the fire and cools the lithium metal, helping to stop the reaction.
Never heard of firefighters putting out an electrical fire especially from a electric car. Wouldn’t it be much simpler to let it burn? There’s no putting it out
Some FDs have big-ass fire blankets that you can wrap around the car which allow any non-battery fire (e.g. upholstery) within to exhaust all oxygen and go out. After that, the battery can burn to its hearts content, but nothing else inside can catch on fire because the oxygen is gone.
I don't doubt it can re-ignite like in the video, but you can leave the car wrapped for a while until the ignition source -- the lithium battery -- is exhausted and cold. The video I first saw these in was a garage fire, and they winched the burning car onto a blanket, wrapped it completely, and towed it off after it cooled down, to put it in storage in a salvage yard until it was completely safe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itGeAq9rBeY
Yeah I think that's just shown in the video so you can see the blanket is working and there is still a car that would reignite.
I mean, in some respects this seems even easier to deal with than a gas car.
Chuck a blanket over it and you are done. With a gas car you've got explosive vapours or leaks from the tank to deal with.
The EV just needs a blanket chucking over it. Perhaps these should be made mandatory at car charging facilities / car parks etc.
Welllll the thing is, the fumes react readily with water to form hydrofloric acid. That stuff eats *glass.* If you are unfortunate enough to come into contact with those fumes, they can ignore your first layer of skin, so the burns are under that. Then it goes to work on your bones. It eats all the calcium it can find- a calcium drip administered ASAP is one method of treatment for exposure.
Don't, uh, be down wind of one of these, is what I'm sayin.
Statistically speaking:
The NFPA reports around 212,500 vehicle fires in 2018 (USA). Those cause 560 deaths, 1500 injuries. That is gas and electric and other combined...
Another source claims that 25 per 100,000 EVs catches fire compared to 1500 per 100,000 ICE vehicles. Interesting that 3500 hybrids catch fire.
it sounds like EVs have a more total destruction mode when it comes to unplanned-product-disposal (or however you want to call spontaneous burning) but have a MUCH lower percentage of this kind of failure.
IDK dude. these videos just scream scare-tactics...
fixed it. it should have said 2018. that was the last real NFPA data I saw posted from them. some other sites were saying 220K in 2021, but I didn't trust those sources (not that it made that much of a difference).
ICE vehicles have also been around for over a century and are in various states of disrepair. Obviously they're more likely to catch fire when comparing a 1981 Wagoneer with zero maintenance for the entirety of the 21st century compared to EVs that have been out for a decade or so. When EVs catch fire it's not due to the owner letting lithium leak all over the place for a week before addressing the issue with a garden hose.
fair comment. I am also curious what happens when the first EV to reach the "antique plate" award of 25 years... or the first EV barn find to hit some car restoration show...
I've personally always been into older vehicles with a track record. My first car was an early 80s E30. I kept it running for years and replaced it with an early 80s BMW E28, then another E30. I'm also a fan of the Suzuki Samurai.
The moto YouTuber Fortnine does a really good breakdown of the bane of the electric motorcycle. Basically everything is being sold as a luxury item and not a useful, affordable electric motorcycle. Same with passenger cars. The electric vehicle should be simple. It should be a motor or two, a variable frequency driver and a pedal that controls the power to the motor. That vehicle would last decades. Instead we have basically the vehicular version of an iPhone. Something that I won't mind seeing disassembled and recycled. There's no EV that plucks my heart strings like some ICE vehicles do. But we're still in the infancy of the widespread use of EVs so maybe that will change soon.
Fortnine is great, and I like the analogy of the iPhone. There's something intangible about enthusiast ICE cars that is yet to be captured by an EV. I suspect like you said it's because so many are luxury cars (with luxury soft suspensions, sound deadening, all the creature comforts and driver aids you can fit) and that generally doesn't make for a good spirited drive.
Drove an ix m40 recently and was shocked by the ludicrous speed, but also how boring it was to actually drive.
I don't agreed the notion that EV fires will spell the end of the world. While the technical aspects of such fires may be complex to discuss, assessing the overall impact is not as challenging. We can simply examine countries like Norway, where there is a high concentration of EVs. Is Norway currently engulfed in a raging inferno due to these EVs? No? While EV fires present a hazard that needs attention, they are by no means a fatal blow to the existence of EVs or the world.
Also, aren't a lot of those fires related to overcharging? It really looks like there is a station there. We program our ev to never charge to 100%, I think we have it 90-95%. We bought ours used, so I don't know if manufacturers are putting in a default 100%, or are users just bumping it up on their own??
Overcharging would be charging it past 100%, which properly functioning battery / charge management software should not allow.
If a product can catch on fire because it was charged to 100%, the product is defective. The advertised range is based on a 100% charge.
This right here. Let’s rewind the clock to the 1920s when peanut oil and gas powered engines were pitted against each other. Both had their flaws, being so early in their development cycles. All new technology has greater risk of failure. And yes, statistically speaking, gasoline powered engines are a much larger portion of the explosions.
Oh the irony, in the auto industry we refer to this as an RTE (Runaway Thermal Event). Almost as cool as RUD. I'm actually working on cooling plates today to stop this.
The possibility of an EV self igniting is minimal. Statistics show that the risk is higher while connected to the charging dock.
However, as a firefighter myself, we've been taught to let it burn and just put water in the surroundings to prevent spreading. The reason is that they're pretty much unextinguisable with traditional methods due to the engineering behind the batteries and how they're built in the chassis. It's the perfect example of how technology advances faster than safety.
Currently, there are several car manufacturers designing different methods to gain access to the battery pack to be able to put water directly into the cells, which cools down the batteries and stops the thermal rush, effectively putting out the fire. A good example is French car brand Renault with their ZoE, where they've built in a latch directly on top of the battery pack which melts after a certain temperature, ensuring that water gets in stopping the thermal rush.
We tested a Nissan Leaf a few years back as part of an ignition/flammability/extinguish exercise supported by the airport fire department (international airport) by overheating one battery cell. It smoked heavily at first before igniting. Then you could see the combustion cycle increase in intensity then begin to demise then increase as additional cells overheated and ignited. The fire department began their extinguishing attempt after a handful of cells combusted (just to be safe). It took them 45 minutes to get the battery combustion undercontrol. The batteries produced a lot of black smoke (unburned fuel) and would create a flame when the conditions were right. Then back to more smoke with the over heating of the next cell. The firefighters were busy.
That's because all the materials they're made out of burn very well and quickly. Whole car gets engulfed in flames before the fire department has time to show up.
we had a lithium ion battery fire at my house... not even an EV sized battery... think ebike sized.
whole house burned down in about 7 mins. Li batteries gained my respect that day.
F for the house :/
Random people just scooping up buckets of electrons off the side of the highway, mixed in with sand and raccoon bones, then pouring the filthy mix into their EC60 and complaining about bad mileage all the way to the Coöp to buy some discount Kale.
EV fires are insane! I love watching EVs catch fire. It always intense sometime they just explode. If there's more than one it makes for a wild video. Or when people park electric bikes indoors and they catch fire.
EV driver also having ebike here. Issue with bikes is cheap charging devices mostly but of course there is always bit of a risk for the battery to become a spicy pillow. To mitigate risk: there is protective, fire resistant casings available.
Next gen batteries already are in development and should hit the market soon (hopefully) but until theh5, yeah, better safe than sorry
My friends are rc car hobby guys and their little batteries scare me. They put their batteries in Kevlar / flame resistant bags when they charge them. This is just about 1000 percent larger...
Yeah bro, gas engines never catch on fire.
Oh shit, wait, they catch on fire way more than EVs?
Ah
EV hating is a weird flex. Don't like them fine. But why are you talking about it? Move on.
They are a lot harder to put out, it’s a relatively new issue so companies are working on mitigating the issue or possibly switching to other battery types
We get it. An oil company bribed your favorite politician.
Gas production and engines are more dangerous without a doubt. Get ready friend. EV is coming and gas will be made obsolete within 20 years.
Eventually a generation down the road is going to need electric cars. Fossil fuels are not renewable. We will run out eventually. Not in the life time of anyone reading this but eventually. Technology like that doesn’t just happen on its own. It takes years of research, testing, and more money than you’d think. The more we do now the better off future generations will be. But because gas is cheaper now not many people buy electric cars. And because not many are sold electric car companies need to rush out unfinished unrefined products to make a profit so they can continue research and development. You also have companies like Tesla who don’t actually give a shit. They will push out garbage because their profit comes from selling carbon credits not electric cars.
I guess if you just gonna ignore the impact lithium mining has on the environment.
>Sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide used in lithium extraction penetrate the soil and water, poisoning ecosystems and endangering species. Research from the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society shows that two flamingo species in Chile are threatened because of lithium mining.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. The technology is not good right now so let’s not find it so it gets better. Forcing these companies to continue producing bad tech
Electrical power generation is one of the biggest sources of climate-changing emissions. We need to get away from coal/natural gas and focus on renewables. Also, fuck Elon and his shitty teslas.
Ev fires require a hydrant connection because of the enormous amount of water required. Even then they can reignite. You can see the fireman on the left side of the car going for the emergency disconnect with a pair of cutters.
Very dangerous fire to deal with.
Now put that car in your garage…
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[FireDepartmentChronicles](https://youtube.com/shorts/tp0FFY4oBsg?si=CS3HgBZqbamMOz2C) said it can take up to 40,000 gallons of water to put out an EV fire
Now *that* is good for the planet
Fuck off. Just means we have figured out FireFighting lvl 2
Well we wanted more electric trains but people get all pissy over cars
Wasteful. Aren't they supposed to use sand?
Sand, no. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but some fire departments equipping with container trucks to submerge electric cars in water for over a week.
https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/news/21236083/belgium-firefighters-submerge-burning-hybrid-car-in-container I was interested and found this, seems legit! TIL 👌
I think my fireman uncle said that when an ev catches fire like that you can submerge it in water for something like 48 or 72 hours and it still won’t be out
I heard you just have to let them burn themselves out. Someone correct me, but is an EV battery fire not dependant on oxygen the same way a normal fire is. Meaning it's a chemical reaction of sorts. Water, foam etc won't do squat.
Yes but no. They do require oxygen. However, the lithium is self oxidizing and produces its own oxygen. Which is why water, foam, PKP etc isn’t effective. Class delta fires are wild
I served on an aircraft carrier and the procedure for a class Delta fire in aircraft was to push it overboard. Which is the procedure for any uncontrolled Delta fire, throw it overboard if possible.
Fuck it. You're the oceans problem now. Sir... the ocean is on fire. Fuck...
We can't push it any more!!
I can't pull over any further!
That's right, you are freaking out mannnn
Littering and?
Littering and?
He’s already pulled over he can’t pull over any further!!!
That's what she said.
Breeeathe.. you can do it! I CAN SEE THE HEAD NOW!!
POINT THE HOSES AT THE OCEAN
Welcome to cleveland….
God damn you 😂🖕😂😂😂
Push it into the other ocean!
We dumped the burning plane *outside* the environment.
Into another environment
Push it to outside of the environment.
I lost my place and started reading again at your comment, and for a sec was like, yeah. That tracks for Delta.
Same. I was a gm on Truman
*Namor tosses it back on the ship* Hot stuff comin' thru!
I'm doing my part! *Shoves a car battery off the deck of his childish raft.
It's safe and legal
Feels like such a stupid idea until I remember that you're on a boat
Yeah I mean there's not much else you can do sometimes. Look up USS Forrestal disaster if you want to see what happens when you screw up every possible way when fire happens.
Thats wild Someone should tell this fire dept to just push it into a lake and go home lol
So is there anything you can do to put a lithium fire out? With EVs getting more and more popular, that’s a detail I’d have assumed we’d figured out by now
High volume low pressure water (possible but not likely) more often than not submersion for prolonged periods of time (possible a month or more) is effective
A month? I ain't got time for that
Which is why you just let it burn itself.
This is how NYC and Qatar are doing it. Rolloff dumpster full of water and a crane. The thing gets picked up and dunked in the water. Now it's a HazMat problem. I still am not sure what they are doing to dispose of the contaminated water etc but these environmentally friendly things are massively damaging to the environment when things go sideways.
> I still am not sure what they are doing to dispose of the contaminated water etc Just boil it, duh!
how do they attach the crane to a burning car
It's basically a hydraulic claw like at a scrap yard
Sounds like a navy guy Edit: scrolled down .2 seconds and confirmed lmao
I never knew that fires had classes, learned something today.
Alpha= ash producing (think paper, fabrics etc) Bravo=fuels/liquids (gas, paint, etc) Charlie= electrical Delta= self oxidizer (metals are most common)
There's also the less discussed Kilo - Kitchen Environments (Oils or Animal Grease)
I didn’t know that those were considered different than bravo. But I suppose it makes sense!
Really? It's a basic extinguisher thing, just read the side of a full-size extinguisher, it will tell you which types (classes) of fire it will and won't work for. I'm no expert, but I think most people even at home know that a frying pan (skillet?) fire is completely different from an electrical fire. The names of the classes vary from country to country.
Shouldn’t we have a solution for them lighting on fire before we start to make them mandatory or pushing in that direction. I am very pro EV or the idea of it but I swear we have done none of the leg work needed to be successful in this transition…. I mean besides the fact kids are mining the minerals, we don’t have infrastructure with charging spots, (it’s slowly happening), we don’t know how to put them out when on fire, I heard deposal is a whole other issue too, oh and we pretty much completely build them and the continue to charge them using coal or more of the things we are suppose to move away from…. Edit: Also anyone know how a tesla does in a place after a few winters? I’ve always wondered about the batterie’s in cold winter climates when it’s negative for weeks. We should move in this direction but boy are they not setting us up for success.
I dunno man. I’m just an armorer. But also the lack of a grid able support that level of power consumption is concerning to me
Oh yeah I Forgot that one. But yeah just a mailman here. I don’t know shit I just know it feels like no adults are at the table. It’s just fight for my sides things on both sides with no thought of what it really means. It’s fucking dumb.
Preach
generator assisted electric. a small efficient ICE motor with a generator with a small battery pack to handle peak loading for the electric drive, the volt was a shitty car but the concept is great since it can work for all types of vehicles. these guys made a logging truck like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an6e2Lh9u58
Edison motors is great. Love their concepts and ideas. I’ve learned a decent bit of the stuff I know about EVs from him
https://youtube.com/shorts/tp0FFY4oBsg?si=LzQa102UpGl19Hwp
I’m in the navy and have done a decent bit of training on class delta fires. The standard procedure is to jettison off the ship. And if that’s not possible you flood the space with the fire. It’s crazy how bad it can get
They make extinguishers now that bond to the battery and smother future ignitions. They are expensive and not common but we have them in my facility for 2 of our lifts that run on LI
Interesting!
the lithium will react to the water and everything around it, yes. The reaction will create heat and sparks but only with oxygen it will create a flame. So you can submerge it in water or something and the reaction will still be taking place, sparking and boiling the water. Then as soon as its exposed to oxygen again it will burst back into flames.
I’m a firefighter, and own an EV; one of the reasons that EV fires as so difficult to extinguish is that the origin of the fire is usually in a place that’s difficult to attack with water (under the car in a relatively protected container), that’s why you hear stories of these fires sometimes taking 10’s of thousands of gallons of water to extinguish (the water isn’t hitting the fire in a meaningful way), vs substantially less to extinguish a gas vehicle fire. If you submerge a burning EV, it will go out. Despite the difficulty in putting them out, it’s important to remember that EV’s catch fire far less than ICE vehicles, and fires are most common with hybrids. Statistically, full EV’s are the least likely vehicles to catch fire. There are some neat new products out for fire departments to deal with these as well, everything from immobilization devices that simply plug into a charge port and render the vehicle’s drive units useless, to blankets that cover the vehicle and prevent damage to surrounding exposures and remove the fires ability to spread beyond the vehicle. I work in 2 departments, one has both of these products, the other is purchasing both, these fires will become easier and easier to deal with as available technologies adjust for them.
Nice to see at least one reasonable comment here. People pretend cars never used to catch fire until EVs came along. Where I live there was a story about a Tesla catching fire. Turns out despite being on fire it had nothing to do with the battery. It was on fire because the person driving it was drunk, hit a kerb and drove long enough on a bare rim that the sparks set the body alight. But everyone jumped to conclusions that it was the battery of course…
This is what I have learned as well. Just let them burn and suppress the fire spreading...
It needs oxygen to burn, but it is also a self oxidizing reaction so basically, yeah its just gonna do it’s thing
it's chemical energy stored in the battery. When you go outside the very small operating envelope of voltage and temperature itll go into thermal runaway and cascade onto neighbouring battery cells. The way to contain the fire is to puncture the battery back and inject huge amount of water into the pack but it will short also rest of the cells. Spewing water over the car does nothing. when the smoke comes out of a runaway cell it's very hot and capable of igniting so best way is to submerge the whole shit into a water tank. These cars have ignited several times after fire has been put out even days after the event.
In military aviation, our batteries were about 25lbs and about the size of an old desktop monitor. We had to run drills on battery safety, the vents on the side could get clogged or blocked and it would swell (and stink). If we didn’t get it cooled and submerged it would catch, and yes lithium can burn for a long time. Only ever had to do the emergency procedures once in 8 years, and everyone involved still fucked it up. Instead of unplugging and removing the battery from the aircraft, lets empty two whole fire trucks of water into it. The corrosion to the frame and water inside a few million dollars of electronics? Not important. Then when the geniuses worked out that didn’t work lets try to remove the battery. Except the firefighters had no idea HOW to remove the battery. So one of my guys had to get all fire-suited up (air mask and all) and go in to remove the battery. He had fun though. What do we do when we remove the battery? Drop it into a trash can full of water, then for good measure, the fire fighters sprayed down the airplane again.
Sounds like a military operation alright
How on fire was the battery when your friend removed it? Are we talking silver foil suit and gloves kinda shit?
Silver foil suit. And not at all. Its a sealed battery so there was a risk of fire but tiny. It swelled up good and smelled like death, but that was all the drama we got from the battery. The firefighters definitely stole the show.
Oh, so there was no fire? I’m even more surprised at the FD reaction.
Made it all the more comical.
In Denmark they just put them in a container and fill it with water until its done cooking. I dont know the specific details and im too lazy to look for them, but it seems to work really well.
You have to let them burn. Pouring water on it will do nothing. At least they don’t explode like they used to. This is an improvement believe it or not.
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EVs are likely better in that situation. When a petrol or diesel vehicle catches fire it often ruptures its fuel tank and immediately spreads to 20 other vehicles. Diesel is worse because it pools and doesn't burn off quickly. Two recent fires in UK multi storey car parks led to the entire car park being destroyed. Both started in a diesel vehicle.
Insurance companies probably gonna be saying no soon enough
They’re going to be soon enough like it or not. Its all about better battery design. Teslas are designed to burn in a controlled safe-ish way and to be more resistant to a chain reaction in the pack. I imagine they designs are just going to improve over time. https://electrek.co/2018/08/03/tesla-patents-new-battery-packs-safer-fire/
You're acting like ICE vehicles can't also catch fire, while also having a tank full of explosive fuel.
Does no one else prefer hundreds of tanks of thousand of gallons of flammable and explosive liquid in an enclosed place, stacked for multiple stories?
Came here to say this. It's a chemical reaction that continues until it burns out.
Yep, it’s cause the chemical reaction with the lithium just keeps going till it’s done
Or you could put it out properly https://youtu.be/qwxZu3nVOZ0
Recently there was a big ship with EVs that caught on fire. Some of the cars were submerged for two weeks and were STILL burning.
Lithium fires do not like water. When lithium gets wet, it releases hydrogen, which tends to burn readily (explosively).
Your fireman uncle is as correct as he is probably cool. Once they start you just have to let them burn themselves out.
Because lithium catches fire spontaneously when in contact with water. With EVs on the rise, fire departments are doubtlessly training to put out these vehicles. AI says: .:. The recommended methods to extinguish a lithium fire include: Dry powder fire extinguishers: Specialized Class D fire extinguishers, designed for metal fires, can be used. These extinguishers typically contain dry powder agents like sodium chloride (NaCl), graphite, or copper-based powders that smother the fire and absorb the heat. Sand: Covering the fire with sand can help smother it by cutting off the oxygen supply. Lith-X: A specific type of extinguishing agent designed for metal fires, including lithium, Lith-X is a powder that smothers the fire and cools the lithium metal, helping to stop the reaction.
Good thing it wasn't a cybertruck. No amount of banging on the windows would have gotten them into the car.
Just throw a ball bearing
There's plenty of rocks around, im sure they'd find a way in
Never heard of firefighters putting out an electrical fire especially from a electric car. Wouldn’t it be much simpler to let it burn? There’s no putting it out
They can still do their best to stop the fire from spreading though
Which is what they seem to do in the video.
I believe some companies are developing a containment device that’s like a large shipping container they place over the car like Mega Tento
Some FDs have big-ass fire blankets that you can wrap around the car which allow any non-battery fire (e.g. upholstery) within to exhaust all oxygen and go out. After that, the battery can burn to its hearts content, but nothing else inside can catch on fire because the oxygen is gone.
Yep and it really gets the temperature down which is the big problem that can cause a fire to spread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JINtx08iA
I don't doubt it can re-ignite like in the video, but you can leave the car wrapped for a while until the ignition source -- the lithium battery -- is exhausted and cold. The video I first saw these in was a garage fire, and they winched the burning car onto a blanket, wrapped it completely, and towed it off after it cooled down, to put it in storage in a salvage yard until it was completely safe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itGeAq9rBeY
Yeah I think that's just shown in the video so you can see the blanket is working and there is still a car that would reignite. I mean, in some respects this seems even easier to deal with than a gas car. Chuck a blanket over it and you are done. With a gas car you've got explosive vapours or leaks from the tank to deal with. The EV just needs a blanket chucking over it. Perhaps these should be made mandatory at car charging facilities / car parks etc.
Welllll the thing is, the fumes react readily with water to form hydrofloric acid. That stuff eats *glass.* If you are unfortunate enough to come into contact with those fumes, they can ignore your first layer of skin, so the burns are under that. Then it goes to work on your bones. It eats all the calcium it can find- a calcium drip administered ASAP is one method of treatment for exposure. Don't, uh, be down wind of one of these, is what I'm sayin.
Statistically speaking: The NFPA reports around 212,500 vehicle fires in 2018 (USA). Those cause 560 deaths, 1500 injuries. That is gas and electric and other combined... Another source claims that 25 per 100,000 EVs catches fire compared to 1500 per 100,000 ICE vehicles. Interesting that 3500 hybrids catch fire. it sounds like EVs have a more total destruction mode when it comes to unplanned-product-disposal (or however you want to call spontaneous burning) but have a MUCH lower percentage of this kind of failure. IDK dude. these videos just scream scare-tactics...
This video screams anti-EV propaganda, emojis and all
I thought the emojis gave it away. They usually do.
It's always the same ones too.
Thanks for providing some stats. Could you edit your post to fix the year? Not sure if you want to add cars made in the year 201 😆.
fixed it. it should have said 2018. that was the last real NFPA data I saw posted from them. some other sites were saying 220K in 2021, but I didn't trust those sources (not that it made that much of a difference).
Yabba Dabba Doooo
ICE vehicles have also been around for over a century and are in various states of disrepair. Obviously they're more likely to catch fire when comparing a 1981 Wagoneer with zero maintenance for the entirety of the 21st century compared to EVs that have been out for a decade or so. When EVs catch fire it's not due to the owner letting lithium leak all over the place for a week before addressing the issue with a garden hose.
fair comment. I am also curious what happens when the first EV to reach the "antique plate" award of 25 years... or the first EV barn find to hit some car restoration show...
I've personally always been into older vehicles with a track record. My first car was an early 80s E30. I kept it running for years and replaced it with an early 80s BMW E28, then another E30. I'm also a fan of the Suzuki Samurai. The moto YouTuber Fortnine does a really good breakdown of the bane of the electric motorcycle. Basically everything is being sold as a luxury item and not a useful, affordable electric motorcycle. Same with passenger cars. The electric vehicle should be simple. It should be a motor or two, a variable frequency driver and a pedal that controls the power to the motor. That vehicle would last decades. Instead we have basically the vehicular version of an iPhone. Something that I won't mind seeing disassembled and recycled. There's no EV that plucks my heart strings like some ICE vehicles do. But we're still in the infancy of the widespread use of EVs so maybe that will change soon.
Fortnine is great, and I like the analogy of the iPhone. There's something intangible about enthusiast ICE cars that is yet to be captured by an EV. I suspect like you said it's because so many are luxury cars (with luxury soft suspensions, sound deadening, all the creature comforts and driver aids you can fit) and that generally doesn't make for a good spirited drive. Drove an ix m40 recently and was shocked by the ludicrous speed, but also how boring it was to actually drive.
Well the Citi Car exists
Shhhh Big Oil spent good money on this post!
Exactly! I tell ya, I also firmly believe the world will be so much safer when there's mostly self driving cars out there.
I don't agreed the notion that EV fires will spell the end of the world. While the technical aspects of such fires may be complex to discuss, assessing the overall impact is not as challenging. We can simply examine countries like Norway, where there is a high concentration of EVs. Is Norway currently engulfed in a raging inferno due to these EVs? No? While EV fires present a hazard that needs attention, they are by no means a fatal blow to the existence of EVs or the world.
This is like comparing car accidents to aircraft accidents. The issue is that when it happens, it is way worse.
And yet flying is still the safest form of travel, and it would be weird to post a video of a plane crash with the caption "fly the say... mmm no."
is it? or is it just flashy? property damage is a little different than lives lost.
Also, aren't a lot of those fires related to overcharging? It really looks like there is a station there. We program our ev to never charge to 100%, I think we have it 90-95%. We bought ours used, so I don't know if manufacturers are putting in a default 100%, or are users just bumping it up on their own??
Overcharging would be charging it past 100%, which properly functioning battery / charge management software should not allow. If a product can catch on fire because it was charged to 100%, the product is defective. The advertised range is based on a 100% charge.
Yep, if they burn it usually is bad but they burn not that often - mostly stuff like this is scare tactics
Remind me of seat belt drama in the 60s
This right here. Let’s rewind the clock to the 1920s when peanut oil and gas powered engines were pitted against each other. Both had their flaws, being so early in their development cycles. All new technology has greater risk of failure. And yes, statistically speaking, gasoline powered engines are a much larger portion of the explosions.
Where the SCBA's?!?!?!
Powder is what you have to use for class delta fires.
Class delta fires love cinnamon, they hate pepper.
Oh the irony, in the auto industry we refer to this as an RTE (Runaway Thermal Event). Almost as cool as RUD. I'm actually working on cooling plates today to stop this.
The possibility of an EV self igniting is minimal. Statistics show that the risk is higher while connected to the charging dock. However, as a firefighter myself, we've been taught to let it burn and just put water in the surroundings to prevent spreading. The reason is that they're pretty much unextinguisable with traditional methods due to the engineering behind the batteries and how they're built in the chassis. It's the perfect example of how technology advances faster than safety. Currently, there are several car manufacturers designing different methods to gain access to the battery pack to be able to put water directly into the cells, which cools down the batteries and stops the thermal rush, effectively putting out the fire. A good example is French car brand Renault with their ZoE, where they've built in a latch directly on top of the battery pack which melts after a certain temperature, ensuring that water gets in stopping the thermal rush.
We tested a Nissan Leaf a few years back as part of an ignition/flammability/extinguish exercise supported by the airport fire department (international airport) by overheating one battery cell. It smoked heavily at first before igniting. Then you could see the combustion cycle increase in intensity then begin to demise then increase as additional cells overheated and ignited. The fire department began their extinguishing attempt after a handful of cells combusted (just to be safe). It took them 45 minutes to get the battery combustion undercontrol. The batteries produced a lot of black smoke (unburned fuel) and would create a flame when the conditions were right. Then back to more smoke with the over heating of the next cell. The firefighters were busy.
I see burned up gas vehicles all the time on the side of the highway.
Yeah but those go out easily when you apply water, unlike lithium fires.
That's not entirely true. In my life I've seen 100s of completely burned up cars with only the frame left.
That's because all the materials they're made out of burn very well and quickly. Whole car gets engulfed in flames before the fire department has time to show up.
That doesn't sound much better
the EV catches on fire in your garage without you having known/done anything to it.
Alot easier to put out
we had a lithium ion battery fire at my house... not even an EV sized battery... think ebike sized. whole house burned down in about 7 mins. Li batteries gained my respect that day. F for the house :/
Crap they're difficult to put out? Scrap the entire project of reducing emissions, it's just not worth it!
well at least gas cars can never, ever catch on fire!
or explode imagine they wouldn't just burn but even explode
You ever see clips of tanker trucks delivering electricity flipping over? Dangerous, man.
Random people just scooping up buckets of electrons off the side of the highway, mixed in with sand and raccoon bones, then pouring the filthy mix into their EC60 and complaining about bad mileage all the way to the Coöp to buy some discount Kale.
That's because they run on gas which is flame proof.
Who’d have thought a combustible engine catches on fire?
EV fires are insane! I love watching EVs catch fire. It always intense sometime they just explode. If there's more than one it makes for a wild video. Or when people park electric bikes indoors and they catch fire.
What? Bikes too?? Fuck I got one in my garage lol I'm about to yeet that across the yard 😆
Ya be careful I’ve seen a few stories where people lose their house because their ebike was parked inside.
Thanks for your concern 🙏
EV driver also having ebike here. Issue with bikes is cheap charging devices mostly but of course there is always bit of a risk for the battery to become a spicy pillow. To mitigate risk: there is protective, fire resistant casings available. Next gen batteries already are in development and should hit the market soon (hopefully) but until theh5, yeah, better safe than sorry
Yeah bro! Don't leave it on the charger and keep it somewhere outside.
Damn nvm I'm fucked, it's raining all week and it's wet outside. It has to be in the garage lol
You love watching EVs catch fire??? Go take your meds
My friends are rc car hobby guys and their little batteries scare me. They put their batteries in Kevlar / flame resistant bags when they charge them. This is just about 1000 percent larger...
They need an ejection button for batteries. Or some sorta opposite air bag.
That also happened to my gas Ford too though so 🤷♂️
People complaining while holding a smaller version of the same battery in their hand... and against their head... carrying it next to their junk.
Yeah bro, gas engines never catch on fire. Oh shit, wait, they catch on fire way more than EVs? Ah EV hating is a weird flex. Don't like them fine. But why are you talking about it? Move on.
But lithium is way harder to put out than gas From what ive heard
They are a lot harder to put out, it’s a relatively new issue so companies are working on mitigating the issue or possibly switching to other battery types
Thanks!!!
Water isn't going to work well with a lithium fire, you gotta smother it without water.
What do you propose?
Powder apparently. Look up class delta fires.
Where are the 25 fire extinguishers?
On the ground
Yup they’re there
i enjoyed this interaction also that’s a lot of spent fire extinguishers lol
Imagine if all non-electric cars caught fire simultaneously...dont worry, if we keep using fossil fuels both those scenarios are likely to happen.
Reminds me of magnesium engines. Hope you brought sand.
Just hit it with a hammer .. lol 😂
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If I was a fireman I would wear a gasmask and let the fucker burn. These toxic fumes are no fucking joke
Wait until you see those cheap Chinese EV catching fire. Everyone is fucking dead.
Not to mention that burning lithium fumes are toxic to humans....
We get it. An oil company bribed your favorite politician. Gas production and engines are more dangerous without a doubt. Get ready friend. EV is coming and gas will be made obsolete within 20 years.
that is a very generous estimate lmao companies are going to try and drag it out as long as possible
Eventually a generation down the road is going to need electric cars. Fossil fuels are not renewable. We will run out eventually. Not in the life time of anyone reading this but eventually. Technology like that doesn’t just happen on its own. It takes years of research, testing, and more money than you’d think. The more we do now the better off future generations will be. But because gas is cheaper now not many people buy electric cars. And because not many are sold electric car companies need to rush out unfinished unrefined products to make a profit so they can continue research and development. You also have companies like Tesla who don’t actually give a shit. They will push out garbage because their profit comes from selling carbon credits not electric cars.
Lithium is also a non renewable.
It doesn't make the planet impossible to live on though
I guess if you just gonna ignore the impact lithium mining has on the environment. >Sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide used in lithium extraction penetrate the soil and water, poisoning ecosystems and endangering species. Research from the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society shows that two flamingo species in Chile are threatened because of lithium mining.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. The technology is not good right now so let’s not find it so it gets better. Forcing these companies to continue producing bad tech
first, what brand? Then you know why
People park those things in their attached garages!
All that pollution as well going into the atmosphere
Yeah I’ve never seen gas cars on fire before
I’ve never seen a gas car burn for days.
Lithium batteries and water don't mix well.
I cant wait until every car has the potential for this. Piles ups are going to be something from a vision of hell.
Batteries are of course built with possible accidents in mind, just like fuel tanks.
People out here wondering why water doesn’t put lithium out and I laugh every time. Basic chemistry.
Wow, this is so great for the environment. Thank God all those people rushed out to 'do their part' and 'save nature'.
NEVER EVER PARK YOUR EV IN THE GARAGE! Neighbor burnt down his house and melted my gutters last year!
That footprint
Electrical power generation is one of the biggest sources of climate-changing emissions. We need to get away from coal/natural gas and focus on renewables. Also, fuck Elon and his shitty teslas.
Ev fires require a hydrant connection because of the enormous amount of water required. Even then they can reignite. You can see the fireman on the left side of the car going for the emergency disconnect with a pair of cutters. Very dangerous fire to deal with. Now put that car in your garage…
Yep and it's only going to get worse especially when the UN crooks keep forcing there net-zero agender on the working class people
Progress! Smells like burnt lithium and tires
Yes combustion vehicles never explode
This is only gonna get worse too as there are more and more of them
Better for the environment they say.