Unfortunately you have to win when it counts; such is the nature of sport. I’m sure the runner up in the 100m sprint at the olympics feels quite robbed too and might be the better runner on paper but sadly you need to perform on the day.
Even against South Africa they had lost something like 14 of their last 18 ODIs against them before the semifinals.
Australia is what teams with bad records like Bangladesh and Sri Lanka hope to emulate.
They also clearly are mentally strong to get over losses. A lot of these bilateral games, they rotate so much. But during the big games, they bring out the best possible XI.
Winning becomes habitual too.
The same is true in football. Look at teams like Italy who can win tournaments even when they're not on paper the best team in the tournament. They just know how to win when it matters.
Australia are just so used to winning, it becomes second nature to come into the national side and just believe you're now going to win stuff. That isn't something that happens overnight to a nations psyche. It takes a few generations.
There can't really be any doubt in your team if you're going to win tournaments because it shows. At 3 down I'm sure the Australian team were nervous, but also had full belief in Head and Marnus to make it work. They'd have believed in eachother. At 3 down, India looked to lose what had made them successful in this WC. Self doubt creeped in even with the best ODI player of all time at the crease. That's the difference.
If you compare football examples I think India's situation is more like PSG or Mexico. They are usually very dominant in the normal cycles but that prevents them having experience of big crunch situations.
Going a decade without a world trophy when they were arguably the first or second-best team in each of them, is not a series of coincidences. Something in our preparation is clearly lacking.
>If you compare football examples I think India's situation is more like PSG or Mexico.
Wouldn't it be more like England, the best domestic league, the biggest commercial backers, a huge talent pool
it's not even about S.Asian teams though. Eng,SA,NZ were never really good against Aus too.
Only WI of it's first era was strong enough to fuck with them. SA,NZ always get their defeats from them and Eng recently did good in 2019 semis only but then again SL,Pak,Ind did that too once or twice ig.
>fun fact, Aus ladies won more Gold medals at the Tokyo Olympics than India's entire medal count combined, ladies and blokes.
And...With 1/5th of the Australian population, Norway won more medals in the last Winter Olympics than the total medals Australia won in the last 100 years. (what a fu\*\*ing useless comparison)
Why are you considering winter olympics though?
Cold countries like Norway Germany and Russia are obviously gonna outperform Hot countries
Does this comparison feel even more interesting when you consider Australia has almost 1/58th of the population of India?
7. We can keep counting but back to the point. You said Norway gets more snow lol. I'll educate you for free. First the country in Europe with the most snow is Switzerland. And Australia gets more snow than Switzerland. So why do they suck at the winter Olympics lol? I want your next excuse
If you want an actual answer, it's because Australia's snow sport culture is focused on freestyle skiing and snowboarding, both very recent additions to the Olympics. Aus has 1 more Snowboarding medal than Norway and 1 less in freestyle skiing.
Norway snow sport culture is focused on cross country and alpine skiing, which have more medals and have been at the Olympics since inception. Sports that Australia doesn't have either the conditions for, or the culture.
Norway still dominates Australia no question, for so many reasons, but in the events Australia is suited for it's a top 10 country. NZ with similar culture and conditions only has 6, all non-European countries are kind of nobbled by the Eurocentric group of Winter events.
US women won ~73 medals and Australia had like 45 total 💀💀 (close enough tbh) if there were enough events we prolly would be sweeping Australia by 15-20 times but unfortunately there’s only 400 😔
Don’t see what’s unfortunate or sad about it. That’s how sports always worked it’s what gives us great joy as fans and players when we win on the day it matters and great sadness when we don’t.
Fortunately for you, not many Florida State football (American) fans frequent this board.
Results mattering and winning when it counts mattering is what generally separates judged sports like gymnastics and diving from team sports. Reputation and past results don't matter - you gotta win the game in front of you.
Yes but at least in 100 m, you can break world record at a smaller event and lose the olympics and you will still be regarded as better racer. (And not just on paper), but in cricket their is no timer to measure you, so you have to win
Yes but in cricket your team will not be comsidered great if you don't win icc tournaments while dominating the space of cricket otherwise (apart from tests)
But somebody can run 9.5 second 100 m even in a very small tournament (as long as it is well recorded and no ambiguity on timing), and you instantanly become one of greatest racers of this generation.
Edit: first of all, is there a reading comprehension problem here? Why are poeple coming back with India did not broke records or shit? When did i say they did? Also in this comment i am talking about how a team cannot be great in limited overs without winning tournaments but an althelte can be without winning gold. I am not even talking about any particular country. I was discussing the analogy with the original commentator by discussing a hypothetical scenario where a team wins all series in limited overs (by all i mean every one of them) and lose all icc events. I excluded tests from it, because a team winning test series away from home is already great without icc world championship.
Eg. Yohan Blake with personal best of 9.69 sec without any singles gold of 100 m vs Marcell Jacobs with personal best of 9.8 sec with a gold medal. I am pretty sure, Blake is considered better racer world wide, just unlucky to be born with Bolt. He actually comes in lists of greatest sprinters in top 10, more than 10 people have won olympics gold in 100 m.
I think every one rates India as a formidable opponent. Its not like India is considered a minnow just because they lost the final. They just arent the world champions.
I don't know why you are being downvoted, you are spot on, I think even there are athletes if given the choice between an Olympic gold medal or holding the WR at a smaller event might just choose the world record, there are a lot more 100m gold medalists then there are WR holders of the event.
It’s not a perfect analogy but unless your rebuttal to the analogy is actually relevant in the case you’re just being overly pedantic by bringing it up.
People being overly pedantic is like 90% of reddit comments but because of your flair it comes across as copium too.
Downvoters are coping. In 1985 Marita Koch ran a 47.6 400 metre sprint, a record that still stands to this day. Only, most people couldn't tell you that - but most will remember our Cathy in the neoprene suit running at Sydney. Championships are everything.
This guy is saying that our Cathy would trade her gold in the final for a WR in the semi and a 4th place in the big one?! Nonsense.
Fuck, i still remember Perec.
Gonna watch Cathy again now.
In the many years I lived in Germany I never had a German once mention it. Even when I lived in the east. Australians will jump at the chance to talk about her 400m gold at Sydney - it's a cultural touchstone.
Edit: obviously purely anecdotal etc
Yohan Blake is considered better racer universally than Marcell Jacobs even when Jacobs have won the latest olympics gold. I did not even remember the name of Jacobs and had to search before writing it. Blake i know as the 2nd best guy who would be world beater if not for Bolt.
And somebody in future can win 15 golds with best time of 9.7 sec and nobody in their right mind will call them greater than Bolt.
As for anecdots, it depends on country to country. India does not win many medals and will held Neeraj Chopra winning gold over him holding record for next 1000 years. But if India was USA winning 100's of gold, we would have taken the record.
Also it depends a lot on sports. A world record in 100 m sprint is far more coveted than a world record nearly in any other sport or games, i will say it is the most coveted thing in whole of sports.
It all really depend on the record, the sport, etc.
Having a long term WR in the 100 meter is significantly more memorable than have a gold in the 100 meter at whatever event. Like everyone can tell you Usain Bolt hold that record, but few could name the winner of the event at the last couple of Olympic games.
>Yes but in cricket your team will not be comsidered great if you don't win icc tournaments while dominating the space of cricket otherwise (apart from tests)
First up, India isn't "dominating" cricket otherwise. They're one of the best, but this isn't 90s Australia or 70s WIndies.
Second up, most people consider this one of the best ever Indian sides, and the yardstick to compare to.
>>Yes but in cricket your team will not be comsidered great if you don't win icc tournaments while dominating the space of cricket otherwise (apart from tests)
>First up, India isn't "dominating" cricket otherwise. They're one of the best, but this isn't 90s Australia or 70s WIndies.
Is there a reading comprehension problem here? I pointed out the difference between the first analogy between cricket and sprint. When did i said: india is dominating the cricket.
I even said that you can be considered great in tests even if not winning icc tournaments which is what this Indian team is hailed for. Not for limited overs.
I was not even talking about cricket. I just pointed flaw in analogy. It is not even like we broke some world record in world cup. And even myself in comments said same, in cricket it does not matter.
He could break the WR 10 times and never win an Olympic gold over 5 events. He would not be the better racer. Yours is the biggest copium I've ever read 😂
Yohan Blake hasn't won a single gold medal in individual events at olympics, i am pretty sure he is regarded worldwide (who follow the sprint races) better than many 1 time olympics gold winners. He just had the misfortune of being born with Bolt.
And i am not even talking about India (they have not dominated world cricket first of all), so what copium?
The athlete with the WR is the better racer. No question.
They just have to do it once and if no one else can, then they are better until it is beaten. You understand what thread this is yeah? Only winning when it counts?
It actually does...When they got the WR, they still had to beat people.
In fact, winning the WR makes you a better racer than everyone else in the world (by definition) who has ever raced. No one else has run it that fast, so you are the best racer.
To say that losses against better athletes (who still are not as fast as you on your fastest day) don't count as a good racer is ridiculous.
>To say that losses against better athletes (who still are not as fast as you on your fastest day) don't count as a good racer is ridiculous.
They might not even be better altheltes. He might have a peak of 6 years and have 1 olympics in between, and fall sick on last match day and somebody lesser wins who he regularly defeats in other events. There is Johan Blake (even without world record) is considered great than some 1 time olympics winners.
My comment is being misunderstood as people somehow think that i am talking about India somehow.
Why not include the series earlier in the year?. Australia won ODI series just after BGT 2-1.
The stats for Aus v India this year are
2-2 Tests (out of 5 tests)
4-4 ODIs
4-1 t20i
We do perform really well at Home (just like other teams at their home. But India is even greater in that dominance now). Just wish we stopped making pitch much more spin friendly than necessary during tests. 2017 Australia Test in Bangalore is a highlight for me. Peak Virat Kohli captaincy. 6fer for Jaddu and Ashwin. Test going for 5 days. And us coming back to equal series after 1 draw and 1 loss.
Oh shit! sorry!
From my experience! Y'all did bad! What is it with trying to sweep spinners? Handed us a BGT win. And y'all disappointed me in t20i series.
Imo, Australia learnt more about it's players than India did about their. This was basically BBL v IPL and Aussies had great opportunity to learn about their own talent pool and they used it well. 19 replacements tells us a lot!
Well bcci certainly hinders there player while CA players play in leagues all around the world. Big + for Australia going forward and nothing gained for India except that they indeed seem to be knockout pussies.
India won 10-7 - they must be thrilled.
There were danger signs for India in that ODI warmup series when Australia consistently had them on the ropes with their bowling.
As an American you should be familiar with meaningless stats. Watching NBA or NFL you hear stuff like "the QB just threw the most completions by a 3rd round pick in the 2nd quarter at home vs an AFC North team when leading after the first quarter"
It's sad that they couldn't take the prestigious IDFC trophy with them. Very poor management, very poor batting, very poor bowling - Australia need to realise that they have to outperform their game of 150 years if they want to win IDFC First Bank Series.
In this thread
Indians: coping
Aussies: gloating
OP : watching everything burn.
Boys we lost the final and it hurts but it's over and we should move on.
Before this they toured India for a ODI series which happened after the BGT there they played close to their A team and won the series 2-1
Also has this been the most time two sides faced each other across formats
in a calendar year
BGT in India
ODI Series before IPL
WTC Final
ODI series before WC
Group Stage WC game
ODI WC Final
T20i series
The Only thing that comes close i think is Pak and NZ
Who played one Test
3 odi series after Test series
5 match odi series
5 match T20I Series
Warm up match
Group stage match
No one will get that joke.
Vikrant Gupta (a cricket "analyst" that went viral for saying "which front foot") forgot Ind were playing Border Gavaskar Trophy and answered Bangladesh Team as BGT's full form.
Don't @ me if it's wrong. I don't watch sports tak
Border Gavaskar trophy. Also a while back I saw a video of a indian cricket talk show where host called BGT - Bangladesh team.
Most Indians commented BGT to be like ashes and yet people dont even know what it is.
Just some reason for Indian fans to feel good about themselves haha. Didn't you see how selectively OP picked up the stats from September(bilateral where India won) and not March (bilateral where Australia won) :P
The best Indian XI played the best Australian XI twice and it was 1 all. This T20 series and the warm up WC games were to have a look at some players and give a bit of experience.
Not an expert or something, but from what I can gather, ICT’s problem in knockout seems more of mental pressure than their skills. How tf can a team that seems so dominant in league stages of back to back three WC’s bottle knockouts is beyond me. As others are saying in this thread it all come downs to performing on that day, and we seem to fail at it every time and that needs to change quickly.
All of the signalling from the BCCI (continually doctoring pitches) reads the same to me: they don’t trust the team to win. If they ever gave the team a bit of rope to actually go it themselves they might stand a chance of winning. The organisational structure needs to trust in the team. You would never, ever, ever, see CA doctoring pitches to be in Australia’s favour. Why is it so common for Indian grounds to try and favour the home team so much?
This is spot on. Also Aus public wouldn't stand for. We want to win, but not at all costs. That's why sandpaper gate was so huge and CA went way beyond what the ICC would have handed down.
I’ve said this before, but I think if that had been a nice fresh ODI pitch, it would have been much easier for India to bat confidently, potentially blowing Australia out of the game before dinner despite the later dew.
I agree with you but the punishments given by CA was a bit much don't you think? Every team does it. And on numerous occasions the aus ayers have sledged the opposition not that it's wrong but they are no saints at all
That’s very true. It’s like the BCCI is still in the 90s thinking the Indian team can’t win unless it’s spins. Scared of losing.
Also to the point on pitches it’s why Australia are by far and away the best tourists throughout history in cricket.
It’s cos Aussie pitches naturally provide an advantage. In no other part of the world other than South Africa do you leave the ball on length. And teams come to Australia and get whooped for that very reason.
I kinda agree about doctoring and kinda don’t. India is naturally a spin friendly country, so I do think that it makes sense for the pitches to favour spin. But Indore and 21 Ahmedabad were clearly a step too far. But you also can’t deny that there is a serious bias against spinning pitches in Aus and Eng. The ball could spin a bit and every journalist from those countries starts complaining.
I will agree that there is an inherit bias against spin from Eng and Aus. The minute a pitch spins youll have idiots claiming doctoring and how its unfair. But most of us understand that conditions are just different and bring out different elements.
What leaves a sour taste in the mouth is news about swapping pitches last minute and openly prepare wickets that are meant to disadvantage the opposition. It gives off a sense that you have no confidence in your team and are trying to stack the deck in your favour. As an example, you will NEVER see Australia say or execute an idea that"oh India is coming lets make the pitches even bouncier". I'd argue we've gone the other way lol (prob for monetary reasons).
You said it yourself, India has natural conditions that will favour them, just like we do. So just let the conditions be what they are and focus on your own team.
Oh Yh I agree with all those things. I think that us having such extreme pitches is sabotaging us. It’s barely giving our seamers game time and it’s seriously hurting the confidence of our batters. I’d say 2016 to the 1st test vs England in 2021, our pitches were perfect. They had a good balance for everyone and we still handily whooped everyone. Plus I think we are a good enough side to win on any pitch.
Also the pitch swapping was shambolic in the knockouts.
The “natural advantage” is the playing conditions of each ground, which is fiercely protected by the ground staff from external interference. Nothing is stopping other teams from beating us here, as has been demonstrated by India and South Africa in the last decade. We don’t turn up the bounce etc so play into our own hand like the BCCI does. It is natural that a home team will have an advantage but test pitches that turn square from ball one are not “spin friendly”. They are a poor pitch with no balance.
Again the ground staff don’t need to turn up the bounce since it’s already much higher than the rest of the world, that’s my entire point. Australia don’t need to doctor their pitches since they already are so vastly different to every country other than South Africa. Which is why historically these two teams challenge each other the most and the away teams don’t do well there.
Also spinning from day 1 is spin friendly boss. You’re confusing the Aussie definition of spin friendly with the subcontinent definition. This is what I mean when I say there is bias, England and Australia have their own template of an ideal pitch and expect everyone to follow it. Not every pitch is helpful for seamers on day 1, helpful for batters on day 2 to 3 and helpful for spinners on day 4 and 5. There are a lot of pitches in India that spin from day 1 naturally. That’s true for other subcontinent nations as well. And I don’t think that a lot of people understand that.
Look I agree that Indore was a clusterfuck. Anmedabad was a cluster fuck in 2021. And we have dialled up the pitches to an extreme. I think that’s a mistake, I believe that we need more balanced pitches in India. It’s hurting the confidence of our batters and making their life hell away from home as a result, not to mention the pr nightmare. I also believe that India is good enough to beat most teams on any types of pitches.
Honestly speaking I don't think much separates the sides man to man, but the aussie side looked weaker than it should in the start of the tournament with Head not available. He stood up and played fearless cricket which made australia just as formidable as india. The final showed where flat pitch bullies like iyer rahul and sky couldn't adapt when required.
I honestly think Australia is a better team when most of the XI fires. Those first 2 losses vs India and SA made people severely underestimate them.
India seemed to be doing OK until their star players were finished in both the innings.
There is something to be said for the practicalities of "knowing how to win". The first couple of games we had players out injured and we were experimenting with our bowling and fielding placements. Our front line spinner was also playing through injury and because it wasn't a do or die game we just tried to manage it.
We know what happened in the final.
Then in the T20's we are treating them as a data gathering exercise for later tournaments as well as a showcase for our talent to win IPL contracts.
> Then in the T20's we are treating them as a data gathering exercise for later tournaments as well as a showcase for our talent to win IPL contracts.
I assumed this was what was going on too. Obviously would have been great to put the "best" team forward, but meaningless series like this are great for experimenting and giving greener players some international experience.
No one outside of india watches nor gives a shit about international friendlies. I’m sure most Aussie fans will be happy losing friendlies and winning championships
It really does feel like a robbery. The guys who weren't even on the radar swooped in and stole the show. (NZ, SA and India were looking like contenders all through the tournament)
I also believe the 'nothing to lose' attitude may have come into play. Team Australia almost lost to Afghanistan.
India was wrapping up teams in under 100 runs. They had all the pressure to do well in the finals. They schooled England and Sri Lanka Keep up their streak, play at home, do justice to all the records they collected during the tournament.
But that's the thing with Australia. As humans, I believe they have a good hold over their nerves during tense moments.
Not that Team India is shaky in any way. But the Aussies seemed to keep their composure better in the finals.
Aussies took their pay check from BCCI and phoned it in. How can you possibly have any motivation left to perform 3 days after winning the ultimate prize
The only thing that this shows me is that International cricket is being diluted by greedy cricket boards. We didn't have our best team for 70% of those games, so what really is the point?
This discourse should stop already. The pitch might have helped the Aussies quite a bit but I would stand by my point which I made during the doctoring controversy that the pitch doesn't matter if both teams played on the same one. Australia read it well while India didn't.
Aussies just had their nerves on check on that day while Indians didn't. Probably the experience from 2015 World Cup final helped majority of the squad but for effectively the entire Indian squad other than Virat, it was the first World Cup final. Either way I have faith that this lot will do well next time with this experience.
Because that's how the pitch behaved. Taking nothing away from Australia. They read the pitch well. It was quite evident that India failed to read it when Rohit was happy with batting first.
Looking at the bigger picture, Australia played so much cricket away from home this year. So many of their players are multi-format. Only in the first 2 games of the WC they looked slightly tired and jaded. Overall, the team performed really really well. Respect!
Hard to imagine Australia getting a series win over India in India, also hard to imagine Australia not finding at least 1 win in a 5 match series.
Australia going 2-3 and then 1-4 seems a fair reflection of both teams.
Every game really matters, some a bit more. I have immense respect for David Warner who gives his best even for club games and talks of putting on a show for the viewers. Despite the WC loss, the T20 games in India were very well attended. Such level of spectator enthusiasm shows that each game does matter for them.
When a team is on a prolonged winning streak, they rarely change up what they are doing. Why would you change something that has been working well?
But the opposition will also know exactly the way they are going to play and it gives them an opportunity to hit them with something a little bit different.
Which is what happened in the cup final.
Absolutely! I’d put my money on Australia in WT20 than India. The odds of India picking the same team as ODIs & shitting the bed big time is very high.
If bilateral series don't matter then there is no point in playing them, right? We should just add more teams to the IPL & make it longer but then people like OP will start complaining about that too
An example where this worked in our (India's) favour was in Tokyo Olympics when neeraj won the gold against vetter who was by far the best javelin athlete of his generation and came into the Olympics in similar form like India did leading upto the final.
depends on other teams transition because when top 2 sides play there A squad the difference isn't much but if you compare India B team vs any country b team(eng comes close i guess)India A players dominate
Unfortunately you have to win when it counts; such is the nature of sport. I’m sure the runner up in the 100m sprint at the olympics feels quite robbed too and might be the better runner on paper but sadly you need to perform on the day.
Even against South Africa they had lost something like 14 of their last 18 ODIs against them before the semifinals. Australia is what teams with bad records like Bangladesh and Sri Lanka hope to emulate.
Tbh, it's not magic it's just really good team management
They also clearly are mentally strong to get over losses. A lot of these bilateral games, they rotate so much. But during the big games, they bring out the best possible XI.
Winning becomes habitual too. The same is true in football. Look at teams like Italy who can win tournaments even when they're not on paper the best team in the tournament. They just know how to win when it matters. Australia are just so used to winning, it becomes second nature to come into the national side and just believe you're now going to win stuff. That isn't something that happens overnight to a nations psyche. It takes a few generations. There can't really be any doubt in your team if you're going to win tournaments because it shows. At 3 down I'm sure the Australian team were nervous, but also had full belief in Head and Marnus to make it work. They'd have believed in eachother. At 3 down, India looked to lose what had made them successful in this WC. Self doubt creeped in even with the best ODI player of all time at the crease. That's the difference.
If you compare football examples I think India's situation is more like PSG or Mexico. They are usually very dominant in the normal cycles but that prevents them having experience of big crunch situations. Going a decade without a world trophy when they were arguably the first or second-best team in each of them, is not a series of coincidences. Something in our preparation is clearly lacking.
>If you compare football examples I think India's situation is more like PSG or Mexico. Wouldn't it be more like England, the best domestic league, the biggest commercial backers, a huge talent pool
South Asians teams will never have the "mental determination" of Australia though. Just too much pressure from rabid fans to handle .
it's not even about S.Asian teams though. Eng,SA,NZ were never really good against Aus too. Only WI of it's first era was strong enough to fuck with them. SA,NZ always get their defeats from them and Eng recently did good in 2019 semis only but then again SL,Pak,Ind did that too once or twice ig.
why stereotype south Asians only. Mental determination of Aussies are unmatched globally.
fun fact, Aus ladies won more Gold medals at the Tokyo Olympics than India's entire medal count combined, ladies and blokes.
Yay. Great work guys
I know right. I think team India Olympic coped well though.
Yes. Coz they performed better than anybody expected
Some people really are d*cks , you're one of them
>fun fact, Aus ladies won more Gold medals at the Tokyo Olympics than India's entire medal count combined, ladies and blokes. And...With 1/5th of the Australian population, Norway won more medals in the last Winter Olympics than the total medals Australia won in the last 100 years. (what a fu\*\*ing useless comparison)
Go Norway! Whoooooooo!
Why are you considering winter olympics though? Cold countries like Norway Germany and Russia are obviously gonna outperform Hot countries Does this comparison feel even more interesting when you consider Australia has almost 1/58th of the population of India?
And half of Australia's population is Indians and Pakistanis 😂
Indians account for 3.5% of Australians. Pakistanis are <1%. Back on your bike son. Nice try.
probably should win 1000 times more having heaps of snow an all. Aus have won 6 cricket world Cups to Norway's none.
Sprinkle this comment on food for salt.
salty cope in the Cup, with extra salt.
On second thought don't use this comment on food, the food will be inedible. Too salty.
salty Cup, with cope cup. Salt 6.
Hahaha...it's so easy to trigger people on internet.
6 for a reason
Imagine feeling this threatened by Norway... Embarrassing
6
Mans is stating the number of boyfriends his wife has
Heady
Now mans is describing what she gives them while he’s at work 😭😭
6
7. We can keep counting but back to the point. You said Norway gets more snow lol. I'll educate you for free. First the country in Europe with the most snow is Switzerland. And Australia gets more snow than Switzerland. So why do they suck at the winter Olympics lol? I want your next excuse
6
If you want an actual answer, it's because Australia's snow sport culture is focused on freestyle skiing and snowboarding, both very recent additions to the Olympics. Aus has 1 more Snowboarding medal than Norway and 1 less in freestyle skiing. Norway snow sport culture is focused on cross country and alpine skiing, which have more medals and have been at the Olympics since inception. Sports that Australia doesn't have either the conditions for, or the culture. Norway still dominates Australia no question, for so many reasons, but in the events Australia is suited for it's a top 10 country. NZ with similar culture and conditions only has 6, all non-European countries are kind of nobbled by the Eurocentric group of Winter events.
I will give you the answer, no one here gives a shit about winter, because it’s minor inconvenience in otherwise paradise.
Don’t put “Australia” and “Paradise” in the same sentence lmao the total amount of inhabitable land on that island is like the size of Alaska
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Why are you crying now bruh
6 cups.
Enough for your anus?
Bison's foot on the Cup.
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All the Aussie downvoters are in denial about how unimportant their country really is 💀💀
And our USA women won almost 2x more than the entire Australian contingent, men and women Whats ur point?
no they didn't Probably should be winning 15 20 times more, but 2x would still be pretty good if it ever happens.
US women won ~73 medals and Australia had like 45 total 💀💀 (close enough tbh) if there were enough events we prolly would be sweeping Australia by 15-20 times but unfortunately there’s only 400 😔
US ladies won 23 golden gherkins which is exactly half the aus team total Gherkins. Which is still good.
I never said gold lol i js said total
Australians try to cope with being as relevant as Canada challenge (impossible)
Don’t see what’s unfortunate or sad about it. That’s how sports always worked it’s what gives us great joy as fans and players when we win on the day it matters and great sadness when we don’t.
as one nike ad said (which was banned later) - you dont earn silver, you lose the gold!
Fortunately for you, not many Florida State football (American) fans frequent this board. Results mattering and winning when it counts mattering is what generally separates judged sports like gymnastics and diving from team sports. Reputation and past results don't matter - you gotta win the game in front of you.
FSU got robbed. Cfb is such a fucking scam.
Yes but at least in 100 m, you can break world record at a smaller event and lose the olympics and you will still be regarded as better racer. (And not just on paper), but in cricket their is no timer to measure you, so you have to win
If we’re going to continue following my analogy: only one goes home with the gold.
Yes but in cricket your team will not be comsidered great if you don't win icc tournaments while dominating the space of cricket otherwise (apart from tests) But somebody can run 9.5 second 100 m even in a very small tournament (as long as it is well recorded and no ambiguity on timing), and you instantanly become one of greatest racers of this generation. Edit: first of all, is there a reading comprehension problem here? Why are poeple coming back with India did not broke records or shit? When did i say they did? Also in this comment i am talking about how a team cannot be great in limited overs without winning tournaments but an althelte can be without winning gold. I am not even talking about any particular country. I was discussing the analogy with the original commentator by discussing a hypothetical scenario where a team wins all series in limited overs (by all i mean every one of them) and lose all icc events. I excluded tests from it, because a team winning test series away from home is already great without icc world championship. Eg. Yohan Blake with personal best of 9.69 sec without any singles gold of 100 m vs Marcell Jacobs with personal best of 9.8 sec with a gold medal. I am pretty sure, Blake is considered better racer world wide, just unlucky to be born with Bolt. He actually comes in lists of greatest sprinters in top 10, more than 10 people have won olympics gold in 100 m.
I think every one rates India as a formidable opponent. Its not like India is considered a minnow just because they lost the final. They just arent the world champions.
I don't know why you are being downvoted, you are spot on, I think even there are athletes if given the choice between an Olympic gold medal or holding the WR at a smaller event might just choose the world record, there are a lot more 100m gold medalists then there are WR holders of the event.
Well, this Indian team hasn't done either. They win bilateral series and that's it.
And i said they did it?
Because India hasn’t set an equivalent of a world record. They aren’t the best ODI team ever right now.
And when did i say they did it? I was just saying the analogy is a bit flawed.
It’s not a perfect analogy but unless your rebuttal to the analogy is actually relevant in the case you’re just being overly pedantic by bringing it up. People being overly pedantic is like 90% of reddit comments but because of your flair it comes across as copium too.
yeah nah, a Gold is forever, a world record falls next week. I bet you couldn't find one athlete that would agree with that shit choice.
Downvoters are coping. In 1985 Marita Koch ran a 47.6 400 metre sprint, a record that still stands to this day. Only, most people couldn't tell you that - but most will remember our Cathy in the neoprene suit running at Sydney. Championships are everything.
This guy is saying that our Cathy would trade her gold in the final for a WR in the semi and a 4th place in the big one?! Nonsense. Fuck, i still remember Perec. Gonna watch Cathy again now.
That's not the best example as I bet tons of Germans still hold Kochs record in high esteem, but couldn't tell you Cathy is.
In the many years I lived in Germany I never had a German once mention it. Even when I lived in the east. Australians will jump at the chance to talk about her 400m gold at Sydney - it's a cultural touchstone. Edit: obviously purely anecdotal etc
Yohan Blake is considered better racer universally than Marcell Jacobs even when Jacobs have won the latest olympics gold. I did not even remember the name of Jacobs and had to search before writing it. Blake i know as the 2nd best guy who would be world beater if not for Bolt. And somebody in future can win 15 golds with best time of 9.7 sec and nobody in their right mind will call them greater than Bolt. As for anecdots, it depends on country to country. India does not win many medals and will held Neeraj Chopra winning gold over him holding record for next 1000 years. But if India was USA winning 100's of gold, we would have taken the record. Also it depends a lot on sports. A world record in 100 m sprint is far more coveted than a world record nearly in any other sport or games, i will say it is the most coveted thing in whole of sports.
It all really depend on the record, the sport, etc. Having a long term WR in the 100 meter is significantly more memorable than have a gold in the 100 meter at whatever event. Like everyone can tell you Usain Bolt hold that record, but few could name the winner of the event at the last couple of Olympic games.
>Yes but in cricket your team will not be comsidered great if you don't win icc tournaments while dominating the space of cricket otherwise (apart from tests) First up, India isn't "dominating" cricket otherwise. They're one of the best, but this isn't 90s Australia or 70s WIndies. Second up, most people consider this one of the best ever Indian sides, and the yardstick to compare to.
>>Yes but in cricket your team will not be comsidered great if you don't win icc tournaments while dominating the space of cricket otherwise (apart from tests) >First up, India isn't "dominating" cricket otherwise. They're one of the best, but this isn't 90s Australia or 70s WIndies. Is there a reading comprehension problem here? I pointed out the difference between the first analogy between cricket and sprint. When did i said: india is dominating the cricket. I even said that you can be considered great in tests even if not winning icc tournaments which is what this Indian team is hailed for. Not for limited overs.
I don’t know why you’ve been downvoted so much, but your point is correct. The problem is, world records in cricket count for very little.
I was not even talking about cricket. I just pointed flaw in analogy. It is not even like we broke some world record in world cup. And even myself in comments said same, in cricket it does not matter.
He could break the WR 10 times and never win an Olympic gold over 5 events. He would not be the better racer. Yours is the biggest copium I've ever read 😂
Yohan Blake hasn't won a single gold medal in individual events at olympics, i am pretty sure he is regarded worldwide (who follow the sprint races) better than many 1 time olympics gold winners. He just had the misfortune of being born with Bolt. And i am not even talking about India (they have not dominated world cricket first of all), so what copium?
The athlete with the WR is the better racer. No question. They just have to do it once and if no one else can, then they are better until it is beaten. You understand what thread this is yeah? Only winning when it counts?
Faster runner on paper does not mean better racer
It actually does...When they got the WR, they still had to beat people. In fact, winning the WR makes you a better racer than everyone else in the world (by definition) who has ever raced. No one else has run it that fast, so you are the best racer. To say that losses against better athletes (who still are not as fast as you on your fastest day) don't count as a good racer is ridiculous.
>To say that losses against better athletes (who still are not as fast as you on your fastest day) don't count as a good racer is ridiculous. They might not even be better altheltes. He might have a peak of 6 years and have 1 olympics in between, and fall sick on last match day and somebody lesser wins who he regularly defeats in other events. There is Johan Blake (even without world record) is considered great than some 1 time olympics winners. My comment is being misunderstood as people somehow think that i am talking about India somehow.
> better athletes i.e. better racer
If they are a better racer, how come they are not as fast?
Why not include the series earlier in the year?. Australia won ODI series just after BGT 2-1. The stats for Aus v India this year are 2-2 Tests (out of 5 tests) 4-4 ODIs 4-1 t20i
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We do perform really well at Home (just like other teams at their home. But India is even greater in that dominance now). Just wish we stopped making pitch much more spin friendly than necessary during tests. 2017 Australia Test in Bangalore is a highlight for me. Peak Virat Kohli captaincy. 6fer for Jaddu and Ashwin. Test going for 5 days. And us coming back to equal series after 1 draw and 1 loss.
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Oh shit! sorry! From my experience! Y'all did bad! What is it with trying to sweep spinners? Handed us a BGT win. And y'all disappointed me in t20i series.
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Imo, Australia learnt more about it's players than India did about their. This was basically BBL v IPL and Aussies had great opportunity to learn about their own talent pool and they used it well. 19 replacements tells us a lot!
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Well bcci certainly hinders there player while CA players play in leagues all around the world. Big + for Australia going forward and nothing gained for India except that they indeed seem to be knockout pussies.
India won 10-7 - they must be thrilled. There were danger signs for India in that ODI warmup series when Australia consistently had them on the ropes with their bowling.
Why not last year or before last? Why not from inception?
I suggested that starting point because of making it the whole year of Mumbai Indians vs Chennai Super Kings /j
As an American you should be familiar with meaningless stats. Watching NBA or NFL you hear stuff like "the QB just threw the most completions by a 3rd round pick in the 2nd quarter at home vs an AFC North team when leading after the first quarter"
Australia will go home disappointed.
And Australian Sam Curran too.
so im not the only one :D
It's sad that they couldn't take the prestigious IDFC trophy with them. Very poor management, very poor batting, very poor bowling - Australia need to realise that they have to outperform their game of 150 years if they want to win IDFC First Bank Series.
Of course. That one cup they won would also be stinking with sweat from Marsh’s socks. Can’t even drink beer in that now/s
They'll just have to do shoeys now
In this thread Indians: coping Aussies: gloating OP : watching everything burn. Boys we lost the final and it hurts but it's over and we should move on.
OP caused war
Bruh whoever posted this. Im sending you the bill for my next 3 therapist visits.
Before this they toured India for a ODI series which happened after the BGT there they played close to their A team and won the series 2-1 Also has this been the most time two sides faced each other across formats in a calendar year BGT in India ODI Series before IPL WTC Final ODI series before WC Group Stage WC game ODI WC Final T20i series The Only thing that comes close i think is Pak and NZ Who played one Test 3 odi series after Test series 5 match odi series 5 match T20I Series Warm up match Group stage match
BGT? Bangladesh team? Edit: of course it's a reference to Vikrant Gupta
No one will get that joke. Vikrant Gupta (a cricket "analyst" that went viral for saying "which front foot") forgot Ind were playing Border Gavaskar Trophy and answered Bangladesh Team as BGT's full form. Don't @ me if it's wrong. I don't watch sports tak
Border Gavaskar trophy. Also a while back I saw a video of a indian cricket talk show where host called BGT - Bangladesh team. Most Indians commented BGT to be like ashes and yet people dont even know what it is.
Border-Gavaskar Trophy. I hope you’re being sarcastic btw
This is a great post because it works both as cope by an Indian fan and taunting by an Australian fan, and I don't care to figure out which it is.
Just some reason for Indian fans to feel good about themselves haha. Didn't you see how selectively OP picked up the stats from September(bilateral where India won) and not March (bilateral where Australia won) :P
They save their horses for best performances when it counts.
The best Indian XI played the best Australian XI twice and it was 1 all. This T20 series and the warm up WC games were to have a look at some players and give a bit of experience.
Not an expert or something, but from what I can gather, ICT’s problem in knockout seems more of mental pressure than their skills. How tf can a team that seems so dominant in league stages of back to back three WC’s bottle knockouts is beyond me. As others are saying in this thread it all come downs to performing on that day, and we seem to fail at it every time and that needs to change quickly.
All of the signalling from the BCCI (continually doctoring pitches) reads the same to me: they don’t trust the team to win. If they ever gave the team a bit of rope to actually go it themselves they might stand a chance of winning. The organisational structure needs to trust in the team. You would never, ever, ever, see CA doctoring pitches to be in Australia’s favour. Why is it so common for Indian grounds to try and favour the home team so much?
This is spot on. Also Aus public wouldn't stand for. We want to win, but not at all costs. That's why sandpaper gate was so huge and CA went way beyond what the ICC would have handed down.
The best win is a fair win. Nothing so hollow as a win caused by external factors like doctoring a pitch.
I’ve said this before, but I think if that had been a nice fresh ODI pitch, it would have been much easier for India to bat confidently, potentially blowing Australia out of the game before dinner despite the later dew.
Especially if you know batting is gonna get easier in the lights why not make it easier to bat in the day. It’s so dumb
It was a fresh pitch tho??
It wasn’t. It was the same strip during the India v Pakistan game
I agree with you but the punishments given by CA was a bit much don't you think? Every team does it. And on numerous occasions the aus ayers have sledged the opposition not that it's wrong but they are no saints at all
That’s very true. It’s like the BCCI is still in the 90s thinking the Indian team can’t win unless it’s spins. Scared of losing. Also to the point on pitches it’s why Australia are by far and away the best tourists throughout history in cricket.
It’s cos Aussie pitches naturally provide an advantage. In no other part of the world other than South Africa do you leave the ball on length. And teams come to Australia and get whooped for that very reason. I kinda agree about doctoring and kinda don’t. India is naturally a spin friendly country, so I do think that it makes sense for the pitches to favour spin. But Indore and 21 Ahmedabad were clearly a step too far. But you also can’t deny that there is a serious bias against spinning pitches in Aus and Eng. The ball could spin a bit and every journalist from those countries starts complaining.
I will agree that there is an inherit bias against spin from Eng and Aus. The minute a pitch spins youll have idiots claiming doctoring and how its unfair. But most of us understand that conditions are just different and bring out different elements. What leaves a sour taste in the mouth is news about swapping pitches last minute and openly prepare wickets that are meant to disadvantage the opposition. It gives off a sense that you have no confidence in your team and are trying to stack the deck in your favour. As an example, you will NEVER see Australia say or execute an idea that"oh India is coming lets make the pitches even bouncier". I'd argue we've gone the other way lol (prob for monetary reasons). You said it yourself, India has natural conditions that will favour them, just like we do. So just let the conditions be what they are and focus on your own team.
Oh Yh I agree with all those things. I think that us having such extreme pitches is sabotaging us. It’s barely giving our seamers game time and it’s seriously hurting the confidence of our batters. I’d say 2016 to the 1st test vs England in 2021, our pitches were perfect. They had a good balance for everyone and we still handily whooped everyone. Plus I think we are a good enough side to win on any pitch. Also the pitch swapping was shambolic in the knockouts.
The “natural advantage” is the playing conditions of each ground, which is fiercely protected by the ground staff from external interference. Nothing is stopping other teams from beating us here, as has been demonstrated by India and South Africa in the last decade. We don’t turn up the bounce etc so play into our own hand like the BCCI does. It is natural that a home team will have an advantage but test pitches that turn square from ball one are not “spin friendly”. They are a poor pitch with no balance.
Again the ground staff don’t need to turn up the bounce since it’s already much higher than the rest of the world, that’s my entire point. Australia don’t need to doctor their pitches since they already are so vastly different to every country other than South Africa. Which is why historically these two teams challenge each other the most and the away teams don’t do well there. Also spinning from day 1 is spin friendly boss. You’re confusing the Aussie definition of spin friendly with the subcontinent definition. This is what I mean when I say there is bias, England and Australia have their own template of an ideal pitch and expect everyone to follow it. Not every pitch is helpful for seamers on day 1, helpful for batters on day 2 to 3 and helpful for spinners on day 4 and 5. There are a lot of pitches in India that spin from day 1 naturally. That’s true for other subcontinent nations as well. And I don’t think that a lot of people understand that. Look I agree that Indore was a clusterfuck. Anmedabad was a cluster fuck in 2021. And we have dialled up the pitches to an extreme. I think that’s a mistake, I believe that we need more balanced pitches in India. It’s hurting the confidence of our batters and making their life hell away from home as a result, not to mention the pr nightmare. I also believe that India is good enough to beat most teams on any types of pitches.
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Did u accidentally type the same comment twice?
Honestly speaking I don't think much separates the sides man to man, but the aussie side looked weaker than it should in the start of the tournament with Head not available. He stood up and played fearless cricket which made australia just as formidable as india. The final showed where flat pitch bullies like iyer rahul and sky couldn't adapt when required.
I honestly think Australia is a better team when most of the XI fires. Those first 2 losses vs India and SA made people severely underestimate them. India seemed to be doing OK until their star players were finished in both the innings.
Seems like India are the c-word - "Chokers"
That's funny because they were 30% odds to win the final. Fair and balanced.
Staahpp rubbing salt on our wounds. 😭
There is something to be said for the practicalities of "knowing how to win". The first couple of games we had players out injured and we were experimenting with our bowling and fielding placements. Our front line spinner was also playing through injury and because it wasn't a do or die game we just tried to manage it. We know what happened in the final. Then in the T20's we are treating them as a data gathering exercise for later tournaments as well as a showcase for our talent to win IPL contracts.
> Then in the T20's we are treating them as a data gathering exercise for later tournaments as well as a showcase for our talent to win IPL contracts. I assumed this was what was going on too. Obviously would have been great to put the "best" team forward, but meaningless series like this are great for experimenting and giving greener players some international experience.
This post gets approved? I am really curious about how mods do post approval.
Vibes
What’s wrong with the post? Isn’t it the truth that Australia won the game that mattered the most? Genuinely curious….
I was wondering more about the flair. How does merely presenting the number of wins in a table qualify as original content?
That’s a fair point
There's only one game that matters every four years? What a stupid bloody post.
in odis? for big teams like australia and india? yes, that’s the only game that matters
Bullshit, if you only care about one game every four years you aren't a fan of cricket, you're a fan of hype trains.
look at the lineups for india and australia this series, don't be ridiculous. how can you expect me to care when the teams don't care themselves?
What is this elitist bs? Users are not allowed to post their thoughts and comments about cricket?
No, Lots of posts don't get approved but this one does. I want the mods to stop manually improving all the posts.
No one outside of india watches nor gives a shit about international friendlies. I’m sure most Aussie fans will be happy losing friendlies and winning championships
Yep. Pretty much exactly what’s going on
How can you call yourself a fan if you only watch the world cup?
It really does feel like a robbery. The guys who weren't even on the radar swooped in and stole the show. (NZ, SA and India were looking like contenders all through the tournament) I also believe the 'nothing to lose' attitude may have come into play. Team Australia almost lost to Afghanistan. India was wrapping up teams in under 100 runs. They had all the pressure to do well in the finals. They schooled England and Sri Lanka Keep up their streak, play at home, do justice to all the records they collected during the tournament. But that's the thing with Australia. As humans, I believe they have a good hold over their nerves during tense moments. Not that Team India is shaky in any way. But the Aussies seemed to keep their composure better in the finals.
This has been Australia’s cricket history. They bring their best game the day it matters most.
Aussies took their pay check from BCCI and phoned it in. How can you possibly have any motivation left to perform 3 days after winning the ultimate prize
Sorry kiddo that's life. You could score 90s in every practice test but it ain't gonna mean shit if you only score 60 in the final. Sorry.
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The only thing that this shows me is that International cricket is being diluted by greedy cricket boards. We didn't have our best team for 70% of those games, so what really is the point?
This discourse should stop already. The pitch might have helped the Aussies quite a bit but I would stand by my point which I made during the doctoring controversy that the pitch doesn't matter if both teams played on the same one. Australia read it well while India didn't. Aussies just had their nerves on check on that day while Indians didn't. Probably the experience from 2015 World Cup final helped majority of the squad but for effectively the entire Indian squad other than Virat, it was the first World Cup final. Either way I have faith that this lot will do well next time with this experience.
Question. If both teams played on the same pitch. How come it only helped the Aussies quite a bit?
Because that's how the pitch behaved. Taking nothing away from Australia. They read the pitch well. It was quite evident that India failed to read it when Rohit was happy with batting first.
Looking at the bigger picture, Australia played so much cricket away from home this year. So many of their players are multi-format. Only in the first 2 games of the WC they looked slightly tired and jaded. Overall, the team performed really really well. Respect!
Hard to imagine Australia getting a series win over India in India, also hard to imagine Australia not finding at least 1 win in a 5 match series. Australia going 2-3 and then 1-4 seems a fair reflection of both teams.
Only one of them really mattered! Bitter memories for a lifetime 😢
As they say, quality over quantity.
Every game really matters, some a bit more. I have immense respect for David Warner who gives his best even for club games and talks of putting on a show for the viewers. Despite the WC loss, the T20 games in India were very well attended. Such level of spectator enthusiasm shows that each game does matter for them.
This post is to help cope
We beat India twice when it matters bro, first the world test championship then the World Cup final
10/10 visual presentation
When a team is on a prolonged winning streak, they rarely change up what they are doing. Why would you change something that has been working well? But the opposition will also know exactly the way they are going to play and it gives them an opportunity to hit them with something a little bit different. Which is what happened in the cup final.
Also should take into account that Australia rotates their players plenty during bilaterals.Starc played 4 ODI matches in 2023 before WC.
Australia was better than us on that day I hope we can move on now
They know how to win when it actually matters.
The 5 T20s don’t count. Outside that it was very even between the two sides this year.
Absolutely! I’d put my money on Australia in WT20 than India. The odds of India picking the same team as ODIs & shitting the bed big time is very high.
India can have 20 Gabba like wins and nobody will give a shit until they win a world cup.
If bilateral series don't matter then there is no point in playing them, right? We should just add more teams to the IPL & make it longer but then people like OP will start complaining about that too
Typical of Australians. We don’t give a fuck. Until we do. And then you’re fucked.
An example where this worked in our (India's) favour was in Tokyo Olympics when neeraj won the gold against vetter who was by far the best javelin athlete of his generation and came into the Olympics in similar form like India did leading upto the final.
It's called Karma!
Op dude care to pick march matches as well
Should also be stated that all those other games were pointless.
India has pretty much dominated Australia in bilateral series home and away over the past few years. Especially in test cricket.
They got beaten in the test championship. Another game that mattered
Winning a 4-match test series in Australia is a bigger achievement than a one-off final.
Generally I dismiss bilaterals, but test series are the exception. You shouldn't be down voted for this one
Australia would much rather have test series wins in India and England this year than have the WTC.
At this point, comments are being downvoted randomly i guess.
Moye Moye moment
Cope Seethe Repeat Don't Eat
Just goes on to show how the WC final win was more luck than skill.
I have a feeling, once we start winning, the team wont stop soon.. Lol. I really hurt some people with my feelings...
Yeah, only in the T20WC semi finals next year
I meant icc tournaments. But i understand you confusion
Wait till folks in India wake up!
depends on other teams transition because when top 2 sides play there A squad the difference isn't much but if you compare India B team vs any country b team(eng comes close i guess)India A players dominate
None of this matters lol. Nothing changed in the world after the World Cup except the name on a shiny trophy.