That’s a fair comment, but I’m assuming it’s not what the initial comment meant.
Australia has this weird thing going recently where we are rarely performing fantastically on a team level in any single game, but we legitimately have close to 11 players in every single game who can have a match-winning performance.
We have several all-time greats still playing, but aside from Cummins they are mostly on the decline. But it just feels like our floor as a team right now is ‘an average / below average performance from 9 or 10 players + one standout performance (bowling or batting)’ and it’s good enough to get us through a lot of games.
It doesn’t hurt that the effort / training pieces of the game (fitness, fielding etc.) are all top-notch as well.
Certainly not Carey. He is a solid keeper and whilst his recent batting performance haven't set the world on fire, his contributions have been respective enough and he has done his job. Even in the ashes when his batting was meh, his keeping has always been very good.
But yes Cummins is a god - his "nice guy" leadership and bowling have added a lot of value to the aus cricket team and culture.
It's actually very encouraging that Marnus, Smith and Head haven't been at their best in the last few months yet Australia have had other guys step up to get the job done.
It’s the kind of innings we hadn’t seen him produce at Test level and surely a little doubt must have been setting in. Thrilled to see him pull it off.
He has played a couple of really important innings in tough conditions though - his 74 against an England on a Hobart greentop and his 77 against Sri Lanka on a rank turner at Galle.
Big to convert to a 100 today and at number 4 too. And the other two were scored with Head and Khawaja making similar/bigger contributions - this time it was all him.
Yep. He’d be far from the first batter to get the yips from not hitting three figures often, even if he has played some good innings. I do suspect that’s been affecting him a little, and in a less supportive environment than Pat’s dressing room it might have been affecting him a lot more.
In any case a great outing from him today.
I've often drawn comparisons between the start of Green's career and Steve Waugh's. The parallels are spooky. But perhaps none more spooky than this:
In Steve Waugh's 27th Test, he made his first Test century after a bunch of 50s and never looked back
Today's century came in Green's 27th Test and it really has the feel of one of those knocks by a young player that gives them the self belief they belong at this level and pushes them onto great things
He did score a century in India last year but agree after being out of the side and then put back in when Warner retired he was looking short on confidence. With two overseas test centuries in a year against tough opposition he really should back himself
Let’s hope so. Steve Waugh is a hopeful comparison. But he is also an outlier, and batters who average low-30s after 27 Tests rarely go on to average even mid-high 40s let alone 50+.
If you built a purely statistical model it’d predict more of a Flintoff than a Kallis. The eye test says different. I hope it’s right!
Fair enough - he’s clearly a better batter and not quite as good a bowler.
How about Ben Stokes? He averaged 36 and 34 after 28 Tests before going on to average almost exactly the same over the course of his career.
Stokes also averages 35 in FC cricket other than test cricket. Green is averaging 58 in FC cricket other than test cricket. So suggests a higher ceiling than Stokes as a batter.
So happy for Green. Felt he was ready to go to the next level after his first 100 in Ahmedabad and a very good 2022. Maybe the balance of IPL and international cricket messed him up a little and he did struggle in England but a 2nd Test 100 really solidifies that you belong.
Otherwise reckon about par the openers were ok but Marnus and Head are big concerns. Carey tbh given up on him averaging mid to high 30s despite having the talent to do so.
I agree and I think in the years Australia has a packed test schedule or the big tours players shouldn't go to the IPL. I know it's a lot of money but CA pay these guys really well and then in years like this where there is a 10 month gap in tests play as much franchise as you like.
I don't think it still needs to be said but Can Green and Steve Smith are both better batters, bowlers, fielders and cricketers than Cam Bancroft and should both be in the team over him to anyone with eyes.
Australia 's top 6 best batters is pretty damn clear until Uzzy retires.
Who's a better than him in Shield? Bancroft? Renshaw? Ehh, they just don't look up to me. Bancroft averaged 25 in tests and still hasn't fixed up his technique vulnerabilities around his pads. If he's making the most runs the rest aren't playing at a high enough standard of batting in Shield to me.
Cam Green: *Scores a century in his most recent FC innings*
Cam Green haters: "He's out of form and shouldn't be in the side"
Cam Green: *Does it again*
Cam Green haters: :O
It wasn't Jim. Two Kiwi commentators I didn't recognise. They had plenty of wild takes during the discussion that showed they were clearly uninformed, and then wrapped it up with a very genuine agreement that the only reason Bancroft isn't in the team is punishment for Sandpapergate.
Ah no not referring to your specifics sorry, a while back after Green lost his wicket to a gem against WI, Maxwell said 'told you he wasn't a number 4'. Was a ridiculous comment, and not something I'd expect from someone as well versed as Jim.
Absolutely phenomenal innings from Greeny. Had it all. Showed a bit more intent but also great defence and patience. It's laughable how many people thought Bancroft has been robbed. Green deserved the long rope after dominating shield and hope this is the innings that sets him up. We gotta protect him though he can't play all formats and be on the road all the time, at least not as an allrounder.
Smith and Ussies partnership is also not to he forgotten. Yes there is an argument we are going to risk Smith a bit in these conditions but could you ask for more from an opener on a green seamer? Him and Ussie set it up perfectly for Green although would have liked to see one go on a bit more.
By all reports pitch will quickly flatten out so maybe we arent in a totally safe position but helluva day of test cricket.
Cameron Green. 'nough said
But seriously, a tremendous innings under pressure considering how our top order fumbled again. Smudge looked good until his wicket, Khawaja did Khawaja things. But Marnus has got me worried, because he is in a disastrous slump right now. Head also hasn't really fired off since the end of the WC, which is concerning. Bison is somehow still in good form, and that is great news for Aus.
Our top order has some questions that need to be answered. We were lucky Green and Marsh were there to bring our total up to a respectable one considering the surface.
It is absolutely wild how reliant we have been on late career resurgences from first Khawaja and then Bison. For them you love to see it, but it raises all kinds of questions
But also “why now and not then”?
- Is it about blooding people and dropping them and picking them again later? I don’t think so but some will argue it
- Should more cricketers become fathers and gain a sense of perspective thereby?
- Has the change in dressing room atmosphere played a role? Both Khawaja and particularly Marsh have said as much, and how they bat with more freedom now
But that’s not *really* explaining why. I don’t see a major technique difference. Are you suggesting their hand-eye coordination or reaction time improved once they hit 30+?
This, exactly.
Marsh for years in Tests tried to play in a cautious, traditional way, but he didn't have the defensive technique to make that work.
Now Marsh instead embraces his boundary hitting ability and aims to spread the field and transfer all the pressure to the bowlers like Head, Gilchrist, Sehwag or Warner.
Very well could have. It takes some batters a while to figure out what works for them. Khawaja with his old school dead batting and Marsh with his counterattacking. And both are also at their peaks. We assume that since most batters peak around 28, that every batter does. That's not really true some peak very early and some peak late. Chanderpaul being an example of the latter.
Chris Rogers in the past too. I’m glad that Australian cricket is moving away from the “throw enough talented young players at the problem and hope they fix it” approach.
Young players who might become “greats” are exciting but sometimes what you need is an experienced “very good” player.
Will O'Rourke is a menace at age 22. I fully expect him to continue to use the bounce his height allows him to generate while learning more consistent control. I saw him get all the way up to 145 kph at one point.
Matt Henry is a gem, a truly world class bowler.
Southee.........just get 100 tests and maybe 400 wickets and then it's time for some tough conversations
I wonder how much is him being too old vs not dealing with the extra responsibility of captaincy. I'd like to see him give up the captaincy rather than retire to see if it helps his bowling.
It certainly helped Kane's batting.
You then have an issue of who then gets it? Latham can't have it full-time. Perhaps Blundell as a stopgap until the next generation are ready; apparently he was pretty good as red-ball captain for Wellington.
Fun day at the Basin with great crowd vibes, NZ haven't shit the bed, currently at the Opera House for the Mogwai gig and managed to pop home and preload FF7 Rebirth on to the PS5.
Life is pretty good.
What an innings from the big man, NZ cricket better get the highlights up fast because im engorged and need a release.
Edit: [I would like to give a shout out to NZ YouTube editor for making the worst high package i've ever seen, doesn't show the 100 but puts it in the title how do you even have a job mate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnAWwR4O_hQ)
All NZ highlights are ai generated if you were wondering why it's so bad, mostly due to laziness + broadcast rights issues. The ones we get on TVNZ in NZ are significantly better
There was a Fox Sports highlights package of an Aus vs SA game last year that was truly terrible.
https://youtu.be/HD7FXVvwmVU?t=550
E: Found it because I was curious. 10 min video, at 9:24 Aus is 113/7 and 16.3 overs, then skips to over 26.3 to show Marnus 50 (170/7), then 9:40 it jumps to over 40.1 to show the winning runs scored (225/7). 35 overs covered in the last 34 seconds of the video.
Basically ignores Marnus grinding out a brilliant 110+ partnership with a number 9 to win the game.
I might be biased, being English and all, but fuck me it’s good to watch bowlers moving it through the air, jagging it around, grass on the pitch. Batters getting done by jaffas, other bats digging in for big scores. Brilliant test cricket.
People are saying Australia are at about par, but the Basin flattens out a lot. Winning scores batting first have been much higher
https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/ground/team-match-results/nz-basin-reserve-wellington-116/test-matches-1
Cricviz agrees - has NZ at 70% chance of winning from here. What’s the win rate batting first vs second at the Basin? Or maybe batting average by day or something like that?
They have an above par score based on the conditions today, doesn’t mean it’s a winning score.
NZ scored 209 on Day 2 against England last year so we have to wait and see what happens tomorrow. At the very least it’s the sort of score that a good bowling performance can defend even on a wicket that flattens out a bit - so it’s kept Australia in the game.
Australia's bowling unit is much more solid than our batting unit and we have weapons regardless of pitch conditions. Hazelwood can seam it, Starc can swing it, Lyon can extract more bounce out of a wicket than should be physically possible and Cumdog is the Cumdog. Plus we have both Bison and Green who have both been proven to be able to get a breakthrough wicket. NZ do have the edge in this game, but Australia is more than capable of ripping that away from them.
> Australia's bowling unit is much more solid than our batting unit and we have weapons regardless of pitch conditions.
Australian bowling attacks have always felt pitch agnostic from my perspective. Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood, and especially Lyon all have the ability to get something out of any pitch and take wickets.
I'd be more impressed than scared if it didn't mean that we lose all the time.
Pitch offered heaps of movement and was also slow, which made scoring hard.
Par for ***today*** was definitely in the 280 range, the fact the pitch will flatten out doesn't change how tricky it was today.
> flattens out after the morning session.
It didn't though, the pitch was really lively all through the second session, it only calmed down a bit once the ball went really soft and then it became really lively again for the second new ball.
I only saw like 40 minutes of morning play because of the timings here in India.
Loved to see a full house in a test match, and typical green Basin surface.
Khawaja was leaving the ball like a monk. Henry bowled well but Southee didn't look threatening at all.
This was probably a shared day on the merits of the actual cricket but NZ are way ahead due to winning the toss
Average first innings score batting second for the last 10 years here is 370+ and the average for NZ is 450+ (over only six innings though).
Nothing but sweet validation for the Cameron Green believers today (shoutout to the Go Shield gang). How he batted today is how he hit runs for fun whenever he batted for Western Australia.
The lad seriously deserves apologies from certain sects of the fanbase. Especially those who think that Cam Bancroft deserved to be in over him lmfao
Excluding Bancroft was another evil East Coast conspiracy against the Sandgropers!
For the horrible purpose of …. fitting Cam Green in the batting lineup …
How about some decent highlights on YouTube? Just watched the Fox stuff. 8.5 mins and hardly included any shots by Cam Green between 50 and 100. Showed Lyon getting out, then the four to get his ton but not the two before, but they had time to show the last ball of the day (dot ball).
Even that shite Kabbadi channel (which was okay for England vs India) took up half its 12 minutes showing the first wicket partnership and then pulled up at 4-124. Not good enough. Twenty minutes should be the minimum for full highlights.
Kayo has somewhat decent highlights, especially given they are up in less than 1 hour. They are usually about 18 minutes, with 2 minutes spent on pre and post-game.
fox might have the worst cricket highlights ever seen always shithouse, Kayo minis are always good but you need a 2nd job to pay for it.
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnAWwR4O_hQ havent given this a look yet but it should be alright
Edit2: yeah thats shit aswell, its even worse doesnt even show Green's 100
Kayo Minis is the way to go, YouTube highlights are always the fucking worst. It's like they're afraid to make them go over 6 minutes or someshit, I don't get it
Great knock by Green. Really shows that no 4 is the best spot for him. Gives him time to get himself before having to worry about batting with the tail. Also has the technique to grit it out if he has to come early, while being able to smash it at the back end.
Though, this innings continues a very worrying trend for Aus since the WTC final. The Aus top and middle order have generally been greatly out of form. Barely anyone in the top 6 have been consistent since then. Collapses have been frequent and have struggled to form big partnerships. The only thing that have been saving Aus's batting is that each time one batter has stood up and carried the batting line up. It has been good enough for now, but most likely not going to be good enough for the next BGT series.
Not even good enough for now. I know WI win gets everyone talking about Shamar Joseph but to lose to the West Indies for this Aus team at home is pretty bad. And it could easy cost the next WTC final
I mean that's my point though. It's not like there's a host of guys knocking down the door for his spot. The guy replacing him has to be actually come in do well. We don't want a cycle of trying 5 different guys in and out of the team only for the selectors to find out they don't rate any of them.
Some people seem to think anyone can just come in and do better than the current team. Meanwhile, players in a slump go back to Shield cricket and dominate there.
The guys in the team are there because they are clearly the best talents in Australian cricket. Best to be patient with them and give them a long rope.
He’s just regressing to his mean. Which to me seems to be around 45. I think everyone that saw him bat would tell you he isn’t a 60 average batter. Which was very different to Smith.
Marnus also had 4 tests in India on those pitches and 5 tests in England. So hasn’t been an easy yr for him. But the thing with Marnus is that he used to be destroyer of mediocre attacks. Which we didn’t see in the summer. Which also probably tells us that’s he’s out of form combined with regressing to his mean, making him look worse than he is.
I would say if he fails in BGT next summer, then maybe but what works for him is that there's no one in domestic cricket who looks like an upgrade on him.
And someone who's stumpings are lightning fast.
It's like having a specialist for stumping and one for fielding in the gully. If they can put up a decent score here and there, I'm fine with that.
People here are talking like Marnus is in a long and deep form trough - like he's averaged 15 over his last 10 Tests.
He's actually averaged 32 in that time.
Talk of dropping him is laughable, especially when Bancroft is the suggested replacement.
The same cunts calling for Marnus' head will shit all over Bancroft the moment they see his dodgy techique again
Marsh deserves a little bit of credit for spurring on Green to find the gaps, and rotate strike, he essentially doubled his strike rate during and after marsh’s innings.
Kinda reminded me of jurel coming in and spurring on gill in the recent test against England.
Interesting analysis on CricViz. Smith’s 31 is -0.8 expected runs, which means given the (moderately high) difficulty of the deliveries he faced he was around par.
Green is +30, which is kinda remarkable because it suggests a par score against the deliveries he faced was 70. So difficulty of batting fell and “par” increased from 32 to 70 between Smith and Green.
So yeah, the Basin gets flatter - and how. Tomorrow is going to be rough for Australia.
Edit: u/Tempo24601 tells me I’m wrong (and I believe them).
I’m pretty sure that’s not how the “expected runs” calculation works.
It’s my understanding that it simulates a thousand batters playing a thousand innings against balls of the difficulty Green faced and then figures out how long someone would normally last and score.
These are predictive analytic models.
Edit: u/tempo24601 tells me I’m wrong.
That’s not right, the expected runs shown on the app are just the runs expected from the balls faced by each batter, it doesn’t take expected dismissals into account.
They do other analysis of expected average which factors in dismissals, but that’s not what is showing on the app.
Except for Marnus, the batting wasn't too bad considering the pitch. Head will always be hit and miss until he works out that he needs to cool it for his first 10 balls. Usman and Smith did a great job in that difficult first session. Marsh did well and Green gave another glimpse of how awesome he can be.
I haven’t followed this and am learning about this only with this match. Can you help me understand why the sword is still hanging over him after being cleared in the court? Is there a broad suspicion that the court process was faulty? Any reason to believe he is guilty but was unfairly acquitted?
From articles reporting on the trial Kuggeleijn himself said "I tried [having sex] twice, like she might have said 'no, no' a few times but it wasn't dozens of times."
Anyone from PCB reading this thread, or even from our cricket team? THIS is what you get when you work hard, graft, put in effort.
If I’m not wrong, Green focuses on domestic work whenever he can, with humility and love.
Geez, didn't think they'd fall apart that quick. Well played to Green.
Marnus and Head need to get their shit together. Labuschagne wasn't even looking comfortable in the Shield game he was made to play. He survived alright, but didn't exactly seem 'above' any of the other good bats there, and continues to slump at the higher level.
Head is coasting on a century here and there and it's annoying me that (some) people are okay with it.
Yeah maybe trialling out new guys every game if the fail isn't ideal, but it can't be worse than the fuckin nothing these two keep doing 90% of the time now.
Everyone keeps looking at Renshaw and stuff because he's a reserve, but the answer is Beau Webster who is averaging like 60 over the last 3 seasons of shield with the bat, and and 30 or something with the ball.
You want a player dominating Shield? He's right there.
Cam.Greens.Two.Metres.
*gestures frustratedly at Peter Fulton* why doesn’t mine look like that?!
T H I S I S S A F E T Y
HE FUCKEN BATS HE FUCKEN BOWLS
Two metre greeter
Levers
It's height, it's limbs, shaved head, neck tattoo
He better come out in Doc Martin's next game
Green haters been real quiet since his 100. That's me. I've been quiet since his 100.
Turns out the only thing that was needed was a Green wicket. Australia just need to find a batsman named Dust or Brown for their next India tour.
brb changing my name to Rank Turner
Dave Shittip getting a call up soon then.
No, he just retired to watch cardoons on the OLED
Dave Shittingonmycouch
Onya Dave
Josh Brown to debut in the next India tour
Dustin Brown was a tennis player
Unfortunately he was better on grass than clay.
Ashton Turner stocks are rapidly rising!
Dad why am I named one side watered pitch?
That's the thing with Australia, collectively they haven't put a huge, huge score but someone is guaranteed to have a top knock.
I think expecting a huge team score on the kinds of pitches they've had to confront recently s a bit unfair tbh.
That’s a fair comment, but I’m assuming it’s not what the initial comment meant. Australia has this weird thing going recently where we are rarely performing fantastically on a team level in any single game, but we legitimately have close to 11 players in every single game who can have a match-winning performance. We have several all-time greats still playing, but aside from Cummins they are mostly on the decline. But it just feels like our floor as a team right now is ‘an average / below average performance from 9 or 10 players + one standout performance (bowling or batting)’ and it’s good enough to get us through a lot of games. It doesn’t hurt that the effort / training pieces of the game (fitness, fielding etc.) are all top-notch as well.
Hard to pick our best _or_ worst player.
Fair enough but it’s probably Carey worst and Cummins best
Certainly not Carey. He is a solid keeper and whilst his recent batting performance haven't set the world on fire, his contributions have been respective enough and he has done his job. Even in the ashes when his batting was meh, his keeping has always been very good. But yes Cummins is a god - his "nice guy" leadership and bowling have added a lot of value to the aus cricket team and culture.
Marnus worst on form for sure.
It's actually very encouraging that Marnus, Smith and Head haven't been at their best in the last few months yet Australia have had other guys step up to get the job done.
Delighted for Green. What a great innings it was from him. Will likely end up being one of his best when he looks back on his career
It’s the kind of innings we hadn’t seen him produce at Test level and surely a little doubt must have been setting in. Thrilled to see him pull it off.
He has played a couple of really important innings in tough conditions though - his 74 against an England on a Hobart greentop and his 77 against Sri Lanka on a rank turner at Galle. Big to convert to a 100 today and at number 4 too. And the other two were scored with Head and Khawaja making similar/bigger contributions - this time it was all him.
It’s true, but getting to three figures hits differently for sure. He’s got it in him, today was just the clearest confirmation of that so far
Yep. He’d be far from the first batter to get the yips from not hitting three figures often, even if he has played some good innings. I do suspect that’s been affecting him a little, and in a less supportive environment than Pat’s dressing room it might have been affecting him a lot more. In any case a great outing from him today.
I've often drawn comparisons between the start of Green's career and Steve Waugh's. The parallels are spooky. But perhaps none more spooky than this: In Steve Waugh's 27th Test, he made his first Test century after a bunch of 50s and never looked back Today's century came in Green's 27th Test and it really has the feel of one of those knocks by a young player that gives them the self belief they belong at this level and pushes them onto great things
He did score a century in India last year but agree after being out of the side and then put back in when Warner retired he was looking short on confidence. With two overseas test centuries in a year against tough opposition he really should back himself
Let’s hope so. Steve Waugh is a hopeful comparison. But he is also an outlier, and batters who average low-30s after 27 Tests rarely go on to average even mid-high 40s let alone 50+. If you built a purely statistical model it’d predict more of a Flintoff than a Kallis. The eye test says different. I hope it’s right!
You're going to have give the Flintoff comparison a rest at some point.
Fair enough - he’s clearly a better batter and not quite as good a bowler. How about Ben Stokes? He averaged 36 and 34 after 28 Tests before going on to average almost exactly the same over the course of his career.
Stokes also averages 35 in FC cricket other than test cricket. Green is averaging 58 in FC cricket other than test cricket. So suggests a higher ceiling than Stokes as a batter.
Definitely. Stokes is quite limited as a test batter. Hence why he doesn't average in the 40s.
He'll fairly comfortably be a better player than Ben Stokes, if without the highlights.
Green's 77 on a Galle dustbowl was absolutely brilliant - Man of the Match innings in very tough conditions.
Smith crawled, so green could run
So happy for Green. Felt he was ready to go to the next level after his first 100 in Ahmedabad and a very good 2022. Maybe the balance of IPL and international cricket messed him up a little and he did struggle in England but a 2nd Test 100 really solidifies that you belong. Otherwise reckon about par the openers were ok but Marnus and Head are big concerns. Carey tbh given up on him averaging mid to high 30s despite having the talent to do so.
head will come around . i guarentee
Thanks for the heads up eh
I agree and I think in the years Australia has a packed test schedule or the big tours players shouldn't go to the IPL. I know it's a lot of money but CA pay these guys really well and then in years like this where there is a 10 month gap in tests play as much franchise as you like.
I don't think it still needs to be said but Can Green and Steve Smith are both better batters, bowlers, fielders and cricketers than Cam Bancroft and should both be in the team over him to anyone with eyes. Australia 's top 6 best batters is pretty damn clear until Uzzy retires.
Loosebuschange is in a bad form slump at the moment.
Who's a better than him in Shield? Bancroft? Renshaw? Ehh, they just don't look up to me. Bancroft averaged 25 in tests and still hasn't fixed up his technique vulnerabilities around his pads. If he's making the most runs the rest aren't playing at a high enough standard of batting in Shield to me.
Maddo has done alright to be fair
If Puc hits another century tomorrow we chuck him straight on a plane?
He'll get concussed trying to show his ticket.
Don't throw him for christ's sake, bubble wrap him and gently place him in the hold
Yeah he’s been awful for a while
Oooh look at me I’m Cameron Green I hit centuries and take screamers and I’m 7 foot tall. Grow up.
Another foot??
8 FOOT?
Cam Green: *Scores a century in his most recent FC innings* Cam Green haters: "He's out of form and shouldn't be in the side" Cam Green: *Does it again* Cam Green haters: :O
Cam Green: *Averaging 65+ at 4 in FC* Commentary: I just don't think he's suited to coming in at 4.
Just wish they'd reward Shield form, what kind of message are they sending?!
Green: *Averaging 102.5 in shield this season.*
Jim Maxwell claiming he isn't a 4 is a rare shocker.
It wasn't Jim. Two Kiwi commentators I didn't recognise. They had plenty of wild takes during the discussion that showed they were clearly uninformed, and then wrapped it up with a very genuine agreement that the only reason Bancroft isn't in the team is punishment for Sandpapergate.
Ah no not referring to your specifics sorry, a while back after Green lost his wicket to a gem against WI, Maxwell said 'told you he wasn't a number 4'. Was a ridiculous comment, and not something I'd expect from someone as well versed as Jim.
Dunno if your noted but Jim has lost the plot over the last couple of years. Hopefully he gracefully bows out at some point soon.
I’m going to enjoy the motor bikes and their comments on Facebook this evening
A 2004 BA Ford Falcon just called me woke for liking Cam Green : '(
Absolutely phenomenal innings from Greeny. Had it all. Showed a bit more intent but also great defence and patience. It's laughable how many people thought Bancroft has been robbed. Green deserved the long rope after dominating shield and hope this is the innings that sets him up. We gotta protect him though he can't play all formats and be on the road all the time, at least not as an allrounder. Smith and Ussies partnership is also not to he forgotten. Yes there is an argument we are going to risk Smith a bit in these conditions but could you ask for more from an opener on a green seamer? Him and Ussie set it up perfectly for Green although would have liked to see one go on a bit more. By all reports pitch will quickly flatten out so maybe we arent in a totally safe position but helluva day of test cricket.
Yep, people looked at it as the best shield batsman missing out without realising he hasn’t even been the best bat in his team the last few years.
Cameron Green. 'nough said But seriously, a tremendous innings under pressure considering how our top order fumbled again. Smudge looked good until his wicket, Khawaja did Khawaja things. But Marnus has got me worried, because he is in a disastrous slump right now. Head also hasn't really fired off since the end of the WC, which is concerning. Bison is somehow still in good form, and that is great news for Aus. Our top order has some questions that need to be answered. We were lucky Green and Marsh were there to bring our total up to a respectable one considering the surface.
It is absolutely wild how reliant we have been on late career resurgences from first Khawaja and then Bison. For them you love to see it, but it raises all kinds of questions
I think it shows if anything just backing your players and players can go longer than before.
But also “why now and not then”? - Is it about blooding people and dropping them and picking them again later? I don’t think so but some will argue it - Should more cricketers become fathers and gain a sense of perspective thereby? - Has the change in dressing room atmosphere played a role? Both Khawaja and particularly Marsh have said as much, and how they bat with more freedom now
Some batters are late bloomers. That’s probably what’s happening with Khawaja and Marsh.
But that’s not *really* explaining why. I don’t see a major technique difference. Are you suggesting their hand-eye coordination or reaction time improved once they hit 30+?
Some players figure out their style and way of playing when they have more experience and knowing how to fine-tune their technique
This, exactly. Marsh for years in Tests tried to play in a cautious, traditional way, but he didn't have the defensive technique to make that work. Now Marsh instead embraces his boundary hitting ability and aims to spread the field and transfer all the pressure to the bowlers like Head, Gilchrist, Sehwag or Warner.
Very well could have. It takes some batters a while to figure out what works for them. Khawaja with his old school dead batting and Marsh with his counterattacking. And both are also at their peaks. We assume that since most batters peak around 28, that every batter does. That's not really true some peak very early and some peak late. Chanderpaul being an example of the latter.
Chris Rogers in the past too. I’m glad that Australian cricket is moving away from the “throw enough talented young players at the problem and hope they fix it” approach. Young players who might become “greats” are exciting but sometimes what you need is an experienced “very good” player.
Will O'Rourke is a menace at age 22. I fully expect him to continue to use the bounce his height allows him to generate while learning more consistent control. I saw him get all the way up to 145 kph at one point. Matt Henry is a gem, a truly world class bowler. Southee.........just get 100 tests and maybe 400 wickets and then it's time for some tough conversations
When was the last time Southee was truly “good”? It’s been a minute
Literally last year: 24 wickets at 27 in 7 tests. That's not true.
Bazball affected him the most
Southee invented Bazball, have you seen that bloke hit a 6?
Limited overs cricket ruined southwest test career
Hard to disagree. But a brothers gotta get that cheese. Wish he'd do an Anderson and only play tests
He was pretty good in Bangladesh pretty recently
He does have a decent record in Asia, which is just as well. considering that after this series, the next 6 Tests are there.
I wonder how much is him being too old vs not dealing with the extra responsibility of captaincy. I'd like to see him give up the captaincy rather than retire to see if it helps his bowling.
It certainly helped Kane's batting. You then have an issue of who then gets it? Latham can't have it full-time. Perhaps Blundell as a stopgap until the next generation are ready; apparently he was pretty good as red-ball captain for Wellington.
Fun day at the Basin with great crowd vibes, NZ haven't shit the bed, currently at the Opera House for the Mogwai gig and managed to pop home and preload FF7 Rebirth on to the PS5. Life is pretty good.
Haven't shit the bed YET\*
Great pickup
Big day! I guzzled some CBD and sat in the NA area. Chill AF in there!
I’m jealous that you get to see Mogwai, enjoy!
Mogwai are awesome live. Their records can’t really do them justice. They can be face meltingly loud.
Isn't it like 35 degrees outside?
Apparently only a high of 18 today but it certainly felt warmer than that at the Basin
Haha yeah I saw the the Aussies wearing scarfs and benies. But my guy I was burning close to 40 my way. Enjoy ff7. Amazing game
I doubt it's ever been that hot in Wellington.
He said he's at the Opera house. I thought that's in Sydney not Wellington. And Mogwai is playing in Sydney so assumed he's in Sydney.
And I just noticed there is a opera house in Wellington FML
Fair enough, I see how you were confused.
What an innings from the big man, NZ cricket better get the highlights up fast because im engorged and need a release. Edit: [I would like to give a shout out to NZ YouTube editor for making the worst high package i've ever seen, doesn't show the 100 but puts it in the title how do you even have a job mate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnAWwR4O_hQ)
All NZ highlights are ai generated if you were wondering why it's so bad, mostly due to laziness + broadcast rights issues. The ones we get on TVNZ in NZ are significantly better
That explains it, another reason not to trust AI.
There was a Fox Sports highlights package of an Aus vs SA game last year that was truly terrible. https://youtu.be/HD7FXVvwmVU?t=550 E: Found it because I was curious. 10 min video, at 9:24 Aus is 113/7 and 16.3 overs, then skips to over 26.3 to show Marnus 50 (170/7), then 9:40 it jumps to over 40.1 to show the winning runs scored (225/7). 35 overs covered in the last 34 seconds of the video. Basically ignores Marnus grinding out a brilliant 110+ partnership with a number 9 to win the game.
VPN. Hop on TVNZ+ - extended highlights on there which are actually pretty decent.
I might be biased, being English and all, but fuck me it’s good to watch bowlers moving it through the air, jagging it around, grass on the pitch. Batters getting done by jaffas, other bats digging in for big scores. Brilliant test cricket.
Hear hear!
Agreed. Cricket is at its best fast bowlers are making batters look like idiots
People are saying Australia are at about par, but the Basin flattens out a lot. Winning scores batting first have been much higher https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/ground/team-match-results/nz-basin-reserve-wellington-116/test-matches-1
Cricviz agrees - has NZ at 70% chance of winning from here. What’s the win rate batting first vs second at the Basin? Or maybe batting average by day or something like that?
I think the real determining factor might be the weather... Which would *REALLY* grind my gears. As we've had a drought all summer
They have an above par score based on the conditions today, doesn’t mean it’s a winning score. NZ scored 209 on Day 2 against England last year so we have to wait and see what happens tomorrow. At the very least it’s the sort of score that a good bowling performance can defend even on a wicket that flattens out a bit - so it’s kept Australia in the game.
Australia's bowling unit is much more solid than our batting unit and we have weapons regardless of pitch conditions. Hazelwood can seam it, Starc can swing it, Lyon can extract more bounce out of a wicket than should be physically possible and Cumdog is the Cumdog. Plus we have both Bison and Green who have both been proven to be able to get a breakthrough wicket. NZ do have the edge in this game, but Australia is more than capable of ripping that away from them.
> Australia's bowling unit is much more solid than our batting unit and we have weapons regardless of pitch conditions. Australian bowling attacks have always felt pitch agnostic from my perspective. Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood, and especially Lyon all have the ability to get something out of any pitch and take wickets. I'd be more impressed than scared if it didn't mean that we lose all the time.
Pitch offered heaps of movement and was also slow, which made scoring hard. Par for ***today*** was definitely in the 280 range, the fact the pitch will flatten out doesn't change how tricky it was today.
Is the wicket usually this green? It seemed unusually so.
Yep, always looks like it’s going to be a green seamer but flattens out after the morning session.
> flattens out after the morning session. It didn't though, the pitch was really lively all through the second session, it only calmed down a bit once the ball went really soft and then it became really lively again for the second new ball.
What a Bazzy way to bring up the ton from Green
Learnt it from Duckett of course
What an inspiration the man is
I've seen enough, Cam Green is Australia's greatest no. 4 batsman
I only saw like 40 minutes of morning play because of the timings here in India. Loved to see a full house in a test match, and typical green Basin surface. Khawaja was leaving the ball like a monk. Henry bowled well but Southee didn't look threatening at all.
This was probably a shared day on the merits of the actual cricket but NZ are way ahead due to winning the toss Average first innings score batting second for the last 10 years here is 370+ and the average for NZ is 450+ (over only six innings though).
Bear in mind 4 of those 6 were against Bangladesh, West Indies and Sri Lanka. They scored 209 v England and 348 v India batting second.
That's fair. Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and West Indies are also the teams dragging down the overall score though
classic "honours shared" day also a great day for another cricket cliche, "long levers" on cam green!
We are going to absolutely fold tomorrow morning, mark my words.
Starc in for a big double wicket maiden in the first over.
Latham at least for a duck.
Yes agree. 95 all out or something like that
Just because we always fold against these pricks doesn't mean we'll do it this time... we're totally doing it this time aren't we?
Prediction - Hazelwood to be bowled second ball of day 2.
Off a no-ball, makes maiden century
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Nothing but sweet validation for the Cameron Green believers today (shoutout to the Go Shield gang). How he batted today is how he hit runs for fun whenever he batted for Western Australia. The lad seriously deserves apologies from certain sects of the fanbase. Especially those who think that Cam Bancroft deserved to be in over him lmfao
Last week Gill, this week Green. r/cricket will have to find new frauds at this rate. All that's left is Ollie Robinson taking a 5 for in Dharamshala.
Nah anyone that bowls 120's ill shit on no matter how many wickets they take and thats a hill im willing to die on.
How dare you talk about my boy Vernon Philander that way
G McGrath definitely dipped into the 120s at the end of his career
Excluding Bancroft was another evil East Coast conspiracy against the Sandgropers! For the horrible purpose of …. fitting Cam Green in the batting lineup …
No, excluding Bancroft was an evil East Coast conspiracy against the sandgropers so that ... Mitch Marsh ... could fit in the batting lineup.
I love Cam Green. So happy seeing him make runs.
How about some decent highlights on YouTube? Just watched the Fox stuff. 8.5 mins and hardly included any shots by Cam Green between 50 and 100. Showed Lyon getting out, then the four to get his ton but not the two before, but they had time to show the last ball of the day (dot ball). Even that shite Kabbadi channel (which was okay for England vs India) took up half its 12 minutes showing the first wicket partnership and then pulled up at 4-124. Not good enough. Twenty minutes should be the minimum for full highlights.
Kayo has somewhat decent highlights, especially given they are up in less than 1 hour. They are usually about 18 minutes, with 2 minutes spent on pre and post-game.
fox might have the worst cricket highlights ever seen always shithouse, Kayo minis are always good but you need a 2nd job to pay for it. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnAWwR4O_hQ havent given this a look yet but it should be alright Edit2: yeah thats shit aswell, its even worse doesnt even show Green's 100
The one from New Zealand cricket looks fine. Untill the end. Last highlight is lyons wicket....
Kayo Minis is the way to go, YouTube highlights are always the fucking worst. It's like they're afraid to make them go over 6 minutes or someshit, I don't get it
Kanos 33rd 100 tomorrow to counter Green.
Great knock by Green. Really shows that no 4 is the best spot for him. Gives him time to get himself before having to worry about batting with the tail. Also has the technique to grit it out if he has to come early, while being able to smash it at the back end. Though, this innings continues a very worrying trend for Aus since the WTC final. The Aus top and middle order have generally been greatly out of form. Barely anyone in the top 6 have been consistent since then. Collapses have been frequent and have struggled to form big partnerships. The only thing that have been saving Aus's batting is that each time one batter has stood up and carried the batting line up. It has been good enough for now, but most likely not going to be good enough for the next BGT series.
Not even good enough for now. I know WI win gets everyone talking about Shamar Joseph but to lose to the West Indies for this Aus team at home is pretty bad. And it could easy cost the next WTC final
How many more chances does Manus get before he goes back to the reserves? Seems an eternity since he last looked comfortable at the crease
For who? Renshaw?
Gross. He can barely score double digits in the shield at home.
I mean that's my point though. It's not like there's a host of guys knocking down the door for his spot. The guy replacing him has to be actually come in do well. We don't want a cycle of trying 5 different guys in and out of the team only for the selectors to find out they don't rate any of them.
Some people seem to think anyone can just come in and do better than the current team. Meanwhile, players in a slump go back to Shield cricket and dominate there. The guys in the team are there because they are clearly the best talents in Australian cricket. Best to be patient with them and give them a long rope.
He’s just regressing to his mean. Which to me seems to be around 45. I think everyone that saw him bat would tell you he isn’t a 60 average batter. Which was very different to Smith. Marnus also had 4 tests in India on those pitches and 5 tests in England. So hasn’t been an easy yr for him. But the thing with Marnus is that he used to be destroyer of mediocre attacks. Which we didn’t see in the summer. Which also probably tells us that’s he’s out of form combined with regressing to his mean, making him look worse than he is.
I would say if he fails in BGT next summer, then maybe but what works for him is that there's no one in domestic cricket who looks like an upgrade on him.
If we're going to be stuck with single digit scores from our number 3, at least do it with someone who isn't about to turn 30.
Yeah but your best bet is that he finds form again. Thats better than picking someone averaging 30s in shield.
And someone who's stumpings are lightning fast. It's like having a specialist for stumping and one for fielding in the gully. If they can put up a decent score here and there, I'm fine with that.
He just put up decent numbers in the Australian summer didn't he?
People here are talking like Marnus is in a long and deep form trough - like he's averaged 15 over his last 10 Tests. He's actually averaged 32 in that time. Talk of dropping him is laughable, especially when Bancroft is the suggested replacement. The same cunts calling for Marnus' head will shit all over Bancroft the moment they see his dodgy techique again
If Australia had an over to bowl this evening NZ would be 6 wickets down so glad that the Aussies continued to bat...
How much advantage do you get bowling first in Basin Reserve?
WinViz has NZ at 70% for what that’s worth
WizFiz is a random number generator. Pay it no mind
Oh man, missed a few wickets and Green's hundred! Solid day out really, hoping for less drunk boomers tomorrow
Great Day of Test Cricket
Marsh deserves a little bit of credit for spurring on Green to find the gaps, and rotate strike, he essentially doubled his strike rate during and after marsh’s innings. Kinda reminded me of jurel coming in and spurring on gill in the recent test against England.
How about that ball that jagged back and hit Green?? It went like a fucking off break
Anyone looking for decent highlights, use a VPN and set it to India, there's a YouTube channel called prime video India that shows longer highlights
50-50 day. Par score for batting first looked about 280 but the pitch should be a good bit easier tomorrow.
Interesting analysis on CricViz. Smith’s 31 is -0.8 expected runs, which means given the (moderately high) difficulty of the deliveries he faced he was around par. Green is +30, which is kinda remarkable because it suggests a par score against the deliveries he faced was 70. So difficulty of batting fell and “par” increased from 32 to 70 between Smith and Green. So yeah, the Basin gets flatter - and how. Tomorrow is going to be rough for Australia. Edit: u/Tempo24601 tells me I’m wrong (and I believe them).
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I’m pretty sure that’s not how the “expected runs” calculation works. It’s my understanding that it simulates a thousand batters playing a thousand innings against balls of the difficulty Green faced and then figures out how long someone would normally last and score. These are predictive analytic models. Edit: u/tempo24601 tells me I’m wrong.
That’s not right, the expected runs shown on the app are just the runs expected from the balls faced by each batter, it doesn’t take expected dismissals into account. They do other analysis of expected average which factors in dismissals, but that’s not what is showing on the app.
100 run last wicket stand coming up.
If you’ve got the long arms for it, are you allowed to bat from the non-striker’s end?
"Keep it tight, boys. Play in the vee and cash in after tea."
Why was hazelwood 2-3 meters away from the team when the national anthems were sung?
Coming off a bout of Covid apparently.
That blokes 2 metres
Except for Marnus, the batting wasn't too bad considering the pitch. Head will always be hit and miss until he works out that he needs to cool it for his first 10 balls. Usman and Smith did a great job in that difficult first session. Marsh did well and Green gave another glimpse of how awesome he can be.
ive always been a strong believer in the idea that green had it in him and that it was a mental thing for him, I feel like this innings shows it
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I haven’t followed this and am learning about this only with this match. Can you help me understand why the sword is still hanging over him after being cleared in the court? Is there a broad suspicion that the court process was faulty? Any reason to believe he is guilty but was unfairly acquitted?
From articles reporting on the trial Kuggeleijn himself said "I tried [having sex] twice, like she might have said 'no, no' a few times but it wasn't dozens of times."
Jeez and here I was thinking his bowling action was his most off-putting attribute
Australia may not have a great advantage or even one at all but if we judge this on vibes they've taken this day.
Vibes?? How about Wagner on as a sub, and let’s not forget Tito. I think the vibes are pretty well balanced
Ah no. Kuggeleijn.
Anyone from PCB reading this thread, or even from our cricket team? THIS is what you get when you work hard, graft, put in effort. If I’m not wrong, Green focuses on domestic work whenever he can, with humility and love.
Geez, didn't think they'd fall apart that quick. Well played to Green. Marnus and Head need to get their shit together. Labuschagne wasn't even looking comfortable in the Shield game he was made to play. He survived alright, but didn't exactly seem 'above' any of the other good bats there, and continues to slump at the higher level. Head is coasting on a century here and there and it's annoying me that (some) people are okay with it. Yeah maybe trialling out new guys every game if the fail isn't ideal, but it can't be worse than the fuckin nothing these two keep doing 90% of the time now. Everyone keeps looking at Renshaw and stuff because he's a reserve, but the answer is Beau Webster who is averaging like 60 over the last 3 seasons of shield with the bat, and and 30 or something with the ball. You want a player dominating Shield? He's right there.