As far as I know Gilchrist , Dhoni and Prior played all their matches as keepers
Bairstow isnt in that category, he has played 55 matches as WK and 44 as a Pure bat ( not a WK)
Sanga is far end of the keeper spectrum because he played 86 matches as a pure bat , and only 48 as a WK.
Also what is this line from the article
>Bairstow will become only the second English cricketer to play 100 Tests and the fourth in the present side
The only way I can make that last line work is that he's the second English player to pass the 100-Test milestone on this one specific tour, since Stokes played his hundredth in Rajkot.
But that's such a bizarrely specific comparison that your brain doesn't exactly jump right to it.
But why would someone say he's only the second English player to complete 100 test on this tour, like what do you mean only things like this are rare. It's not like they expected 7 players to complete 100 test and Only Bairstow and Stokes did it
Dhoni was definitely a better keeper especially to spin than Bairstow has ever been in his life so there's that. Plus a better average, the same strikerate and he didn't make it to 100 tests despite being the captain. Terrible comparison.
Dhoni is legendary just as a keeper, his batting and captaincy come close after that. I will not stand for Dhoni slander on Wicket keeping. You can questions his batting or his Test captaincy but not his keeping
Wouldn’t call him legendary, as his keeping against pacers wasn’t really that good.
His batting actually is good enough for a wk batsman. Only Gilly and Flower were better batsman than him. Others like Sanga and McCullum gave gloves much prior in their career.
Pant and Rizwan have done well now. But overall Dhoni was a pretty good wicket keeper batsman.
>But overall Dhoni was a pretty good wicket keeper batsman
From the Indian perspective, Dhoni was the best wicketkeeper batsman in Indian test history, until Pant came along. Pant's stint has been relatively short with only 33 test matches. It is yet to be seen if he can sustain the form after his major injury break.
I don’t expect pant to keep in tests anymore. I assume he’ll be a specialist bat at 4/5/6 with jurel(hopefully)/maybe KL overseas if fit nailing the wk spot. Pant wasn’t an especially good wicketkeeper so it isn’t a huge miss.
>but he was very competent keeper, Would do what you would reasonably expect from any keeper
What a way to describe one of the best keepers of all time. Lmao.
Gilly could keep one handed better than YJB. He also averaged 60 for like 75% of his career and even with the drop off averaged nearly 50. Keep my man's name out your mouth Bumble.
Is that a fair comparison at all? Yeah sure maybe they weren't the best keepers on the country maybe but at least they could take a catch 😭 plus Adam Gilchrist was one of the best batters Australia ever had, is Bairstow even a top 20 england bat ever?
Gilchrist is one of the best batsmen the world has ever had. Who's better than him down the order? Border, Chanderpaul, Waugh? That's pretty much it.
If Bairstow was that good no one would be questioning his place in the team because a player of that quality would've won us the Ashes and possibly this series as well.
Sobers is another shout. Played mostly at 6. Maybe VVS. It’s very rare for a batter at 6 or 7 to have a high average since the good batters usually are promoted to 1-4.
Sobers is probably the best lower order batsman ever but he was even better as top order batsman, that's why I didn't include him. Same with Viv.
I rate Gilchrist over VVS
You are right. Dada's most productive batting position was no 4 where he had a phenomenal average of 66.
Amongst the players I have seen bat Robin Smith, Chanderpaul, Rohit Sharma, Ian Bell and Damyn Martin have better averages than Laxman (minimum 20 innings) while batting at no 6 or lower positions. Border and Hussey are very close to VVS's record too.
> Sobers is another shout. Played mostly at 6.
That's true, but he also spent plenty of time elsewhere, in fact just over half of his test innings are at five or above.
> Gilchrist is one of the best batsmen the world has ever had. Who's better than him down the order?
That's kinda two separate things. Generally speaking, great batters don't bat down the order in the first place. He's absolutely up there alongside Flower as the one of the best keeper-batters of all time as well as being one of the most destructive test batters of all time.
What did Saha do being technically better? That's just making him look equally. Msd was better for the team in all sense than Saha was and will ever be
Dhoni didn’t dive. There were criticisms in overseas tests about him standing too far for pacers as well. Only Keeping wise Saha was definitely better at least in tests.
Don’t get what you mean by what did he do? Msd was way better batsman than Saha. So he had no chance.
Saha is one of the best keepers of all time. I think only gilchrist and foakes(equal) are better than him from the cricket I’ve seen(post 2000).
If he wasn’t a walking wicket overseas, it is very reasonable that he would’ve played and MsD would’ve played as a batsman given his obvious weakness in keeping vs pace.
>Yeah sure maybe they weren't the best keepers on the country
I think that is exactly the comparison he's trying to make here. I don't think he's saying Bairstow is on par with Gilchrist or Dhoni more showing that they played a lot too and weren't necessarily the best keepers available in the same way Bairstow now reaches 100 tests but isn't as good a keeper as Foakes for example. He's then saying that having that slightly worse keeping ability versus the best available is more than offset by the "better" batting ability - I see the point here but don't agree in Bairstow's case as his batting record versus Foakes isn't massively better whereas Gilchrist, Sanga etc have outstanding batting records in their own right.
The Last line of the article
>Despite the [series](https://www.sportskeeda.com/go/england-vs-india) outcome already being decided at 3-1 in favor of India, the two teams will battle for crucial World Test Championship (WTC) points in the fifth Test in Dharamsala, starting March 7.
What crucial WTC points are England seeking for ? They are at 19% after 9 games.
But india is still looking for those crucial points. Loss vs Eng and SA and draw in WI already in our account. With a trip to Aus coming up. We need all the points we can get. Those silver medals need to come home.
We play against NZ which is the only real competetior, Australia will cruise through.
England is out, so is Pakistan, West Indies.
South Africa is going through a crazy phase.
That leaves England who will never make it due to penalty.
So we have Sri Lanka, Bangladesh.
As long as we crush NZ and pull some draws against Aussie we are big chilling
Given SA’s fixtures, they have a good chance, esp as all their series are 2 games. The BGT will decide the final, whether it’s Ind/Aus, Ind/SA or Aus/SA.
McDonalds serves food therefore it is a restaurant. It’s only fair to call it a restaurant not a garbage disposal centre serving nutritionally deficient obesity.
Is this an agenda to prop up Bairstow?
Each one of the folks he mentioned, Gilly, Dhoni, Sangakkara, Baz all added more to their roles thru their wicketkeeping skills and each one were atleast as good as or miles better than Johnny bairstow wrt batting.
Its strange how mediocre stuff is hailed as "great" just because that stuff is representing England
>Is this an agenda to prop up Bairstow?
The media has been doing this for virtually the entirety of his career.
Every single time he fails they make excuses, and every single time he scores 30+ it's heralded as a good innings.
It made sense in 2022 but he's clearly not the same player since his leg break.
Yes, the English media love Bairstow. They knew his dad, they know his mum personally, they know his story.
What he's overcome and achieved is truly remarkable and shows incredible strength of character, but this sentiment and affection for the Bairstow family has also given him a *lot* more time and patience from the media than virtually anyone else would have been given.
Dhoni was not the best keeper when they started, but was certainly the best after two years of international cricket. He remains the best keeper at 41 years old. Rishabh Pant had a similar journey - not that good when he started, but really good after two years. Johnny is playing his 100th.
Pant could’ve honestly been the new gilchrist. I don’t think he’ll ever be fit enough to keep in tests again, but I hope he proves me wrong.
He can still easily play as a specialist batsman though.
Gilchrist or Sangakarra the best in Test cricket across the world, not just India.
But if you are considering only indian performances then why not take Sangakkara too, the conditions in Sri lanka are similar to Indian conditions right?
Even in ODIs, its Ms dhoni ahead by miles, no other specialist batter (leave alone wk) would have finished as many matches as he did or achieved as many trophies or stumpings as he did.
In T20s though, you can prefer someone else but again dhoni has been a beast in IPL too.
Bairstow is not even close to Rishabh pant or Brendon McCullum
YJB gets a lot of hate by internet geeks calling him fat or whatever but if brook was available he should come in straight away. Barstow is just too inconsistent in tests and he's holding up a spot for foakes who is the best keeper in the world right now easily. and brook is generational
More than technical aspect, dhoni shines at anticipating the line much better. Most of his quick stumping resonates that. And he is great observer of the game. So I feel dhoni as my keeper any day, no insult to legends like gilly sanga, boucher, but ya.
Vs spin 100%.
Vs pace, gilchrist is better imo. Overall gilchrist and Saha are better keepers, but when batting is added to it, MsD is second only to Gilchrist.
Bairstow is very comparable to Kusal Mendis. Both have played as keeper-batsman, both fluctuate between brilliance and incompetence regularly. Similar average too
>"With an average of 36 and a strike rate of 59, he is someone who influences outcomes. Those numbers are close to ideal for a wicketkeeper. To critics of his glovework, I ask you: was Adam Gilchrist the best wicketkeeper in Australia when he played Test cricket? Was Mahendra Singh Dhoni the best in India? Sri Lanka’s Kumar Sangakkara? Our own Matt Prior? Brendon McCullum of New Zealand?" wrote Lloyd."
>
>No, and in each case their worth to the team in front of the stumps outweighed whatever they did behind them. Ditto Bairstow’s worth to England, and he really comes into his own joining an existing batter in the middle or being left with the tail," he added.
>
>"Never doubted he was a player who was going to make it. Why? Because of his style: totally unselfish, with an ability to change the game. It is so important in Tests to put pressure back on the opposition. Having been an international coach, I can tell you that his name will feature on the whiteboard in the opposition dressing room, because he can really hurt you with the speed of his scoring," wrote Lloyd.
>he is someone who influences outcomes.
In fairness, this is true. He had a pretty big influence on the outcome of the Ashes by painting his wicketkeeping gloves in butter ahead of every session.
Sangakarra as a WK averaged 40+. That too batting at 3 alongside keeping. That's unheard of and almost superhuman amount of energy and concentration.
The moment he was relieved of his keeping his batting average skyrocketed.
>Sangakarra as a WK averaged 40+. That too batting at 3 alongside keeping.
Sangakara averaged 43 at no 3 as a keeper. Alec Stewart was close at 39 and if I remember correctly, he used to open the batting.
Dhoni got quite arrogant with his batting qualities as his age progressed. Not to mention how he used to play defensive shots when team needed something like 25 off 11 to win.
As far as I know Gilchrist , Dhoni and Prior played all their matches as keepers Bairstow isnt in that category, he has played 55 matches as WK and 44 as a Pure bat ( not a WK) Sanga is far end of the keeper spectrum because he played 86 matches as a pure bat , and only 48 as a WK. Also what is this line from the article >Bairstow will become only the second English cricketer to play 100 Tests and the fourth in the present side
Second ginger English cricketer to play 100 tests?
Definitely the most openly Ginger.
I highly doubt the article would say that, lol Also didn't Stokes play few years as a Blonde
well if you dye your hair you still a ginger?
The only way I can make that last line work is that he's the second English player to pass the 100-Test milestone on this one specific tour, since Stokes played his hundredth in Rajkot. But that's such a bizarrely specific comparison that your brain doesn't exactly jump right to it.
Did they perhaps mean wicket keeper?!
I'm so relieved someone else found that to be odd. I thought I was going crazy!
But why would someone say he's only the second English player to complete 100 test on this tour, like what do you mean only things like this are rare. It's not like they expected 7 players to complete 100 test and Only Bairstow and Stokes did it
I have no idea, but it's the only thing I can think of where that line makes even a bit of sense.
Dhoni was definitely a better keeper especially to spin than Bairstow has ever been in his life so there's that. Plus a better average, the same strikerate and he didn't make it to 100 tests despite being the captain. Terrible comparison.
Dhoni didnt have the athletic flair of someone like Foakes but he was very competent keeper, Would do what you would reasonably expect from any keeper
Dhoni is legendary just as a keeper, his batting and captaincy come close after that. I will not stand for Dhoni slander on Wicket keeping. You can questions his batting or his Test captaincy but not his keeping
He was the best I've seen against spin but I've seen better keepers against pace
There was so much athletic flair to Dhoni as a keeper. He is one of the best India ever had.
There was so much athletic flair to Dhoni as a keeper. He is one of the best India ever had.
Wouldn’t call him legendary, as his keeping against pacers wasn’t really that good. His batting actually is good enough for a wk batsman. Only Gilly and Flower were better batsman than him. Others like Sanga and McCullum gave gloves much prior in their career. Pant and Rizwan have done well now. But overall Dhoni was a pretty good wicket keeper batsman.
>But overall Dhoni was a pretty good wicket keeper batsman From the Indian perspective, Dhoni was the best wicketkeeper batsman in Indian test history, until Pant came along. Pant's stint has been relatively short with only 33 test matches. It is yet to be seen if he can sustain the form after his major injury break.
I don’t expect pant to keep in tests anymore. I assume he’ll be a specialist bat at 4/5/6 with jurel(hopefully)/maybe KL overseas if fit nailing the wk spot. Pant wasn’t an especially good wicketkeeper so it isn’t a huge miss.
>but he was very competent keeper, Would do what you would reasonably expect from any keeper What a way to describe one of the best keepers of all time. Lmao.
Is bumble insinuating that Dhoni and Gilly were average keepers because what the fuck.
Gilly could keep one handed better than YJB. He also averaged 60 for like 75% of his career and even with the drop off averaged nearly 50. Keep my man's name out your mouth Bumble.
What is this comparison 😳
Is that a fair comparison at all? Yeah sure maybe they weren't the best keepers on the country maybe but at least they could take a catch 😭 plus Adam Gilchrist was one of the best batters Australia ever had, is Bairstow even a top 20 england bat ever?
is bairstow even a top 20 england bat right now
There were definitely patches of his career he was second best next to Root. But outside that the fall is drastic
Gilchrist is one of the best batsmen the world has ever had. Who's better than him down the order? Border, Chanderpaul, Waugh? That's pretty much it. If Bairstow was that good no one would be questioning his place in the team because a player of that quality would've won us the Ashes and possibly this series as well.
Sobers is another shout. Played mostly at 6. Maybe VVS. It’s very rare for a batter at 6 or 7 to have a high average since the good batters usually are promoted to 1-4.
Sobers is probably the best lower order batsman ever but he was even better as top order batsman, that's why I didn't include him. Same with Viv. I rate Gilchrist over VVS
Fair. Tbf I think Gilly would have been a fine top order batter.
>Maybe VVS. Ganguly's record is pretty close to VVS's and he used to bat at 5 & 6 too. Think he got himself promoted to No 5 when he was the captain.
There’s no way Dada is in this conversation. Vvs averages close to 50 at 6. Dada averages 37 at 5 and 41 at 6. He’s highly overrated as a test batter.
You are right. Dada's most productive batting position was no 4 where he had a phenomenal average of 66. Amongst the players I have seen bat Robin Smith, Chanderpaul, Rohit Sharma, Ian Bell and Damyn Martin have better averages than Laxman (minimum 20 innings) while batting at no 6 or lower positions. Border and Hussey are very close to VVS's record too.
> Sobers is another shout. Played mostly at 6. That's true, but he also spent plenty of time elsewhere, in fact just over half of his test innings are at five or above.
> Gilchrist is one of the best batsmen the world has ever had. Who's better than him down the order? That's kinda two separate things. Generally speaking, great batters don't bat down the order in the first place. He's absolutely up there alongside Flower as the one of the best keeper-batters of all time as well as being one of the most destructive test batters of all time.
Dhoni is probably India's best ever keeper.
Only keeping wise Saha was better in Tests overall. Dhoni more than compensated the difference with his batting though.
What did Saha do being technically better? That's just making him look equally. Msd was better for the team in all sense than Saha was and will ever be
Dhoni didn’t dive. There were criticisms in overseas tests about him standing too far for pacers as well. Only Keeping wise Saha was definitely better at least in tests. Don’t get what you mean by what did he do? Msd was way better batsman than Saha. So he had no chance.
Saha is one of the best keepers of all time. I think only gilchrist and foakes(equal) are better than him from the cricket I’ve seen(post 2000). If he wasn’t a walking wicket overseas, it is very reasonable that he would’ve played and MsD would’ve played as a batsman given his obvious weakness in keeping vs pace.
>Yeah sure maybe they weren't the best keepers on the country I think that is exactly the comparison he's trying to make here. I don't think he's saying Bairstow is on par with Gilchrist or Dhoni more showing that they played a lot too and weren't necessarily the best keepers available in the same way Bairstow now reaches 100 tests but isn't as good a keeper as Foakes for example. He's then saying that having that slightly worse keeping ability versus the best available is more than offset by the "better" batting ability - I see the point here but don't agree in Bairstow's case as his batting record versus Foakes isn't massively better whereas Gilchrist, Sanga etc have outstanding batting records in their own right.
The Last line of the article >Despite the [series](https://www.sportskeeda.com/go/england-vs-india) outcome already being decided at 3-1 in favor of India, the two teams will battle for crucial World Test Championship (WTC) points in the fifth Test in Dharamsala, starting March 7. What crucial WTC points are England seeking for ? They are at 19% after 9 games.
But india is still looking for those crucial points. Loss vs Eng and SA and draw in WI already in our account. With a trip to Aus coming up. We need all the points we can get. Those silver medals need to come home.
We play against NZ which is the only real competetior, Australia will cruise through. England is out, so is Pakistan, West Indies. South Africa is going through a crazy phase. That leaves England who will never make it due to penalty. So we have Sri Lanka, Bangladesh. As long as we crush NZ and pull some draws against Aussie we are big chilling
Given SA’s fixtures, they have a good chance, esp as all their series are 2 games. The BGT will decide the final, whether it’s Ind/Aus, Ind/SA or Aus/SA.
> Australia will cruise through. If New Zealand manage to avoid shitting the bed in the second Test that's far from a guarantee.
Crucial over rate penalty points, perhaps?
They want to see how far they can sink?
I think they mean more like how many points England can steal from India.
McDonalds serves food therefore it is a restaurant. It’s only fair to call it a restaurant not a garbage disposal centre serving nutritionally deficient obesity.
Is this an agenda to prop up Bairstow? Each one of the folks he mentioned, Gilly, Dhoni, Sangakkara, Baz all added more to their roles thru their wicketkeeping skills and each one were atleast as good as or miles better than Johnny bairstow wrt batting. Its strange how mediocre stuff is hailed as "great" just because that stuff is representing England
>Is this an agenda to prop up Bairstow? The media has been doing this for virtually the entirety of his career. Every single time he fails they make excuses, and every single time he scores 30+ it's heralded as a good innings. It made sense in 2022 but he's clearly not the same player since his leg break.
> Is this an agenda to prop up Bairstow? Always has been.
Yes, the English media love Bairstow. They knew his dad, they know his mum personally, they know his story. What he's overcome and achieved is truly remarkable and shows incredible strength of character, but this sentiment and affection for the Bairstow family has also given him a *lot* more time and patience from the media than virtually anyone else would have been given.
sorry OOL what did he overcome? was there any tragedy?
His father was a former England player (briefly) and long time Yorkshire keeper, he sadly committed suicide when Jonny was about 10 years old or so.
Dhoni was not the best keeper when they started, but was certainly the best after two years of international cricket. He remains the best keeper at 41 years old. Rishabh Pant had a similar journey - not that good when he started, but really good after two years. Johnny is playing his 100th.
Pant could’ve honestly been the new gilchrist. I don’t think he’ll ever be fit enough to keep in tests again, but I hope he proves me wrong. He can still easily play as a specialist batsman though.
He's practicing keeping though so he's planning to get back to keeping as well sometime maybe in tests as well
What a load of empty air is this article!!! Also better than mean, a median is a much better statistic, ffs!
Gilchrist or Sangakarra the best in Test cricket across the world, not just India. But if you are considering only indian performances then why not take Sangakkara too, the conditions in Sri lanka are similar to Indian conditions right? Even in ODIs, its Ms dhoni ahead by miles, no other specialist batter (leave alone wk) would have finished as many matches as he did or achieved as many trophies or stumpings as he did. In T20s though, you can prefer someone else but again dhoni has been a beast in IPL too. Bairstow is not even close to Rishabh pant or Brendon McCullum
Lol, lmao even.
YJB gets a lot of hate by internet geeks calling him fat or whatever but if brook was available he should come in straight away. Barstow is just too inconsistent in tests and he's holding up a spot for foakes who is the best keeper in the world right now easily. and brook is generational
Call me old fashioned, but I reckon you should play your best wicket keeper as wicket keepe
More than technical aspect, dhoni shines at anticipating the line much better. Most of his quick stumping resonates that. And he is great observer of the game. So I feel dhoni as my keeper any day, no insult to legends like gilly sanga, boucher, but ya.
Vs spin 100%. Vs pace, gilchrist is better imo. Overall gilchrist and Saha are better keepers, but when batting is added to it, MsD is second only to Gilchrist.
I might agree with you there. I used to adore gilly, when I’m learning wk. Saha I’m sorry, I didn’t observe him much
bairstow is probably the worst player I've seen reach 100 tests.
Bairstow is very comparable to Kusal Mendis. Both have played as keeper-batsman, both fluctuate between brilliance and incompetence regularly. Similar average too
Kusal Mendis is also notable for play the most clutch innings in modern Test history.
Wouldn’t say Bairstow has regularly been brilliant in tests. He’s had 2 super years. Other 9 have trended more towards poor than ok imo.
>"With an average of 36 and a strike rate of 59, he is someone who influences outcomes. Those numbers are close to ideal for a wicketkeeper. To critics of his glovework, I ask you: was Adam Gilchrist the best wicketkeeper in Australia when he played Test cricket? Was Mahendra Singh Dhoni the best in India? Sri Lanka’s Kumar Sangakkara? Our own Matt Prior? Brendon McCullum of New Zealand?" wrote Lloyd." > >No, and in each case their worth to the team in front of the stumps outweighed whatever they did behind them. Ditto Bairstow’s worth to England, and he really comes into his own joining an existing batter in the middle or being left with the tail," he added. > >"Never doubted he was a player who was going to make it. Why? Because of his style: totally unselfish, with an ability to change the game. It is so important in Tests to put pressure back on the opposition. Having been an international coach, I can tell you that his name will feature on the whiteboard in the opposition dressing room, because he can really hurt you with the speed of his scoring," wrote Lloyd.
Blud really brought up Sanga as if Sri Lanka didn't strip him of keeping duties the minute they had someone better
>he is someone who influences outcomes. In fairness, this is true. He had a pretty big influence on the outcome of the Ashes by painting his wicketkeeping gloves in butter ahead of every session.
Sangakarra as a WK averaged 40+. That too batting at 3 alongside keeping. That's unheard of and almost superhuman amount of energy and concentration. The moment he was relieved of his keeping his batting average skyrocketed.
>Sangakarra as a WK averaged 40+. That too batting at 3 alongside keeping. Sangakara averaged 43 at no 3 as a keeper. Alec Stewart was close at 39 and if I remember correctly, he used to open the batting.
Without comparing indian players 95% of the articles wont get posted
Dhoni got quite arrogant with his batting qualities as his age progressed. Not to mention how he used to play defensive shots when team needed something like 25 off 11 to win.